Vatican blasts gender-affirming surgery, surrogacy and gender theory as violations of human dignity
The Vatican on Monday declared gender-affirming surgery and surrogacy as grave violations of human dignity, putting them on par with abortion and euthanasia as practices that reject God’s plan for human life.
The Vatican’s doctrine office issued “Infinite Dignity,” a 20-page declaration that has been in the works for five years. After substantial revision in recent months, it was approved March 25 by Pope Francis, who ordered its publication.
In its most eagerly anticipated section, the Vatican repeated its rejection of “gender theory,” or the idea that one’s gender can be changed. It said God created man and woman as biologically different, separate beings, and said people must not tinker with that plan or try to “make oneself God.”
“It follows that any sex-change intervention, as a rule, risks threatening the unique dignity the person has received from the moment of conception,” the document said.
It took them five years to whip up a measly 20 pages of dipshittery? Magic space daddy is free to come down here himself and choke on my girl dick if they take such offense to me. Show up quick though I've got The Surgery™️ in two months. My unique dignity is I do whatever the fuck I want to with my body, and if god didn't want that for me shouldn't have given me the damn thing in the first place
Also I love that they're like "don't modify your precious god given body!" and in the same breath say intersex people should be "corrected". Fuck these ghouls and fuck anyone who supports them
If God wanted the Pope to read, he would have given him better eyes. Take those things off right now, Mr. Pope. Glasses are an affront to God.
"No doctor, you must not remove that child's appendix! All parts of the body are made in god's image, and if god wanted this child's appendix to develop appendicitis, it is surely part of god's plan!"
It’s much easier, if God wanted us to do something instead of any other things then why the fuck will give us free will, instead of making a bunch of robots.
From another viewpoint, though, we are all flesh robots. Our bodies are built on genetic programming, our personalities and behavior based on environmental stimuli. How much independent thought or agency can an individual claim to have when so much is predetermined the moment we draw first breath?
Might even be able to predict it all if you have a powerful enough computer.
I mean, if that is the case, then that means God built some people to be transgender and seek gender affirming care.
So either way, the church's bit here is bullshit.
That's my argument against the religious. If God created you, then he chose to make you trans or gay. He chose to make people skeptical. He chose to make people who need hard evidence to believe things.
If there is a creator who purposely made each of us, then It would see no moral difference between gay and straight, cis and trans. It would also not judge people for disbelief, because It made people who were predisposed to disbelief without extraordinary evidence.
All in all, fuck the religious. They don't understand their own religion.
Oh 100%
He is some sort of sadist, the free will is so you don't want to do whatever it is that you are forced to do. Either be miserable in life or suffer for eternity after death. He loves you a lot btw.
🙌
And if anyone knows about violating human dignity, it's the Pope.
....and his children diddling army of minions
So…god did not plan for the reality of the fluidity of genders? The all powerful all knowing god did not account for this in his plan?
-Pope.
The Torah has eleven genders in it. The Jewish God is supposed to be the same one as the Catholic God, so clearly they haven't read up on their own history
Edit: it's the Talmud and it's 8, my bad
What's fascinating there is that not only does the Talmud identify eight genders, but two of them specify having changed their gender presentation through human intervention - precisely the type of intervention that the Pope is decrying here.
I seem to recall a scripture about there being no male or female in the eyes of God. So not sure why old man pope is so offended.
https://www.esv.org/verses/Galatians+3:28/
Fuck Pope Francis. Love that he said "no its okay to do genital surgery on babies (literally less than 2 years old) if they don't match what we decided was right for them". Intersex people can just go fuck themselves in the Pope's view I guess.
0 fucking consistency to any of their bullshit rhetoric. I think God's core message is actually to shut the fuck up and let medical professionals address people's health problems.
GRS literally saved my life. I would literally be dead if not for it. Transitioning allowed me to live a happy, fulfilled life. Anyone who tries to say that I shouldn't have been able to transition, or should be forced to detransition, is unironically literally saying that I should be fucking dead. No part of me is a man. If God existed, then me as I am today was always his plan and design for me. Because otherwise he's just a fucking asshole who literally created me just to suffer and die. If such a God existed I would have no qualms openly defying his creation, because no human being should be driven to suicide over something that real medical treatments exist for.
The unbelievable fucking audacity for the catholic God damn church to accuse trans people of colonizing is so fucking wild. Such an unbelievable thing to say as someone who's the head of an organization that goes around the world "converting people from their heathen religions to Christianity". But somehow spreadings trans rights to be themselves and receive medical treatments that save their lives is "colonization". I'll tell that to the tens of thousands of dead native children buried outside catholic residential schools.
Glad you are now happy with yourself. Indeed, how should anyone but yourself tell you who you are?
Adults of sound mind should have the right to do to their body what they wish for whatever reason they wish. It's nobody else's business. But we can't expect most ingrained religions or conservatives to accept this.
The problem is that millions of people think that the Pope has a direct line to their god and if the Pope says being trans is in violation of their god's plan, they're not going to be good to trans people and some religious trans people, especially the ones who aren't out, will be driven further into the closet due to the self-hate.
The whole idea of a high pontiff is pretty terrifying. Look at the Crusades. How many people were killed because the Pope said to go kill them and people following him did what he ordered? There's well over a billion Catholics. If the Pope said to rise up and kill and even 1% of them followed him, the bloodbath would be enormous.
Organized religion was a huge scam. Like our own bodies, it should be something personal or to show off at a dedicated club.
Prior to that people also used to attempt it on their own dying miserably in their way to Jerusalem. What they did was just giving a political form to a preexisting movement.
Perhaps, then, we shouldn't accept conservatives or their religions.
Of course. God created males to be male and females to be female, and any attempt to change that is an abomination... but he didn't create intersex people to be intersex, and that must be "corrected". Just goes to show, this is just man putting his hate in God's mouth again.
Honestly, the main reason I don't believe in God is because I can't believe any all-powerful, just and benevolent God would allow things like this to be said in their name without any push back.
Yep. I'll believe in God when he starts smiting Philistines again.
Yeah, but what makes more sense is Dystheism...
"the belief that a god is not wholly good and can even be considered evil, or one and the same with Satan. Definitions of the term somewhat vary, with one author defining it as "where God decides to become malevolent".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dystheism
'Kinda puts the proclamations of the church into perspective.
A malevolent god is certainly a possibility, but in that case, the absolute best thing I could do is not even acknowledge its presence.
Epicurus Dilemma... I also, cannot get past that
But touching little kids was definitely part of the plan.
Touching kids is their only plan.
This pope has always been nothing but a PR figurehead, he says nice platitudes, calls gay people friends, and everyone seems to buy his bullshit. Meanwhile, before he was Pope, he was a bigot, misogynistic, antiquated asshole. All the inclusive things he says are nothing but marketing.
You know what else violates human dignity? Shuffling around pedo priests so they get away with their abuses. Refusing to meet with or compensate victims of the clergy. Telling clergy not to cooperate with police etc. That's what violates human dignity
Ok boomer. If trans people want to "make themselves God", I support that. Whatever that is supposed to mean anyway.
God's plan is just the alpha release, has a lot of bugs, and is not feature complete. Lol
Annoyingly stable tho. How we gonna speedrun without clipping through things?
Clipping through things is real.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnelling
That'd be some fun shit, some doug-adams-esque "throw yourself at it and miss" stuff except you've gone through a wall
Arguably our whole world only works because of clipping.
I wouldn't call regular mass extinction events stability.
It's not just the prelude event for the next expac?
He sounds a lot like Bethesda
...and when a bunch of really talented modders make things better than great a loud minority starts crying out "Nooo! Can't play Skyrim with mods, it's cheating! I don't want anime tiddies and Thomas the Tank Engine in Skyrim! It's not what Todd envisioned! Waaaa!".
And yes, there actually is a certain bunch who think mods in a single-player game==cheating. Somehow.
Loud minority of folks running/ruining things for the other 2/3 or so seems to be a theme w humans.
I can't imagine deliberately choosing to use the janky inventory/spell UI skyrim launched with
There are more masochists out there than you might think.
Believe it or not, when I made that comment, what I had in mind was Skyrim's mammoths falling out of the sky, Barbas accidentally pushing me off a cliff, and the hired thugs going "we're here to teach you a lesson" while I'm fighting Alduin and they helped me deal some damage before they died.
You should have seen my divine plan, I test them in worldbox. My first iteration was bombs. But than I saw that it wasn't really good so I made a perfect Island and everyone is blessed. I was bored so i made everything immortal. Also they could not decalre wars because not death was to be in my world. On the year 332 the first king of the earliest kingdom had 24 kids and a well deserved golden tooth. On the year 1700 they were all very happy.
Still an atheist but I would love if I died and found out God was just a guy in a cubicle who inherited a mess from its coworker who was fired.
"Look I am sorry everyone keeps getting aids and cancer alright I am trying. Freaken galaxies weren't rotating right so had to invent dark matter. Also Sharon ate the last donut and I get like a billion bug and feature requests from you apes every second. I didn't sign up for any of this! Ok ok calm I am in my happy place...you should probably go to heaven now. It's viking heaven but it's working"
I feel like it would be a great fictional concept to explore the Christian God as not all powerful. He's well connected, certainly, with how many priests there are around the world, but he still has limits. Bad stuff happening? He isn't able to stop it, but wishes he could. Divine punishment for the truly sick individuals? He could, but it would mean he can't prevent as much bad stuff as he already is, and humans do a decent enough job of dealing with the shitheads.
It was a bad idea to have God be omnipotent. The idea of a benevolent god who isn't omnipotent and needs your help to spread good in the world is a far more compelling idea.
Some of the conceptions of early Judaism were like that, after they made their God all good it still struggled to fix stuff.
Remember kids: this is the leftwing darling good Pope.
Religion, not even once.
More of a liberal darling ya? Pretty sure the left is anti-pope in general.
I would basically be fine with the Pope if he stopped the child fucking. The bar is pretty low. I try to have a bit of empathy for the elderly not being very progressive.
Welp, turns out they’re still the same old Catholic Church after all. Whoda thunk it? 🙄
Fuck this bioessentialist piece of trash.
I don't believe in any god, but even if I did I would not think such an entity had any right to dictate or make judgements on who I am and how I am, or my identity or purpose.
I'm so goddamn sick of this bullshit. I get to decide who I am and set my own path, fuck these people who think they get to tell me (and everyone else) what my life and body and purpose and identity are >:(
Really, I can't even begin to describe how much I hate this sort of patronising bullshit, how many of us have to suffer or die because of the relentless repressive normativity imposed by these groups and their infantilising ideologies of self repression and obedience and compliance, especially with the "dignity" and "diversity" doublespeak they've been trying to use in the past few months even while they systematically try to erase those very same things from anyone who doesn't fit into their suffocatingly binary and restricted conceptualisation of identity nya.
Our biology, identity and lives should be ours to control. We are capable of deciding our goals and purposes. I frankly hope more people realise they don't need some patronising religious institution to tell them how they should exist or what their purpose should be (if any, some folks are more nihilistic), and seize their morphological autonomy and decision making from groups that would deny it to them under the guise of such bullshit as supposed "dignity" ^.^
Seriously, fuck this. The Catholic Church (and this """cool""" pope), as well as pretty much all the other organised religious institutions who propagate the same infantilising and self-subjugating rhetoric, can go fuck themselves with a cactus in every available hole.
Christianity: Humans have free will.
No no not like that!
The "original sin" is having the potential to understand ethics beyond blind obedience to the Abrahamic diety and to make decisions for yourself (to my understanding of the concept).
"Having original thoughts beyond obedience" is the original sin.
Make of that what you will :p
"You deserve this because you wanted to know what was going on" is sure a take, but not one that's ever gonna sit well with me.
Wasn't Eve created from a man's rib as an afterthought?
There are two creation narratives in the book of Genesis, and both are considered to be historical allegories.
Can we really handwave away the whole Adam and Eve thing though?
If we do, then what did Jesus die for?
The original sin. Which in most myths is acquiring knowledge or attaining sentience.
The new motto for Vegas -- if you don't enjoy yourself, he died for nothing.
The whole rib thing is likely just a PG version of the original...
Humans are one of the only mammals lacking a penis bone, men and women both have 24 ribs each...
There's only one bone that human males lost, and that was the dick bone. So if Eve was made from a bone, she's the root cause of male impotence because it's a lot harder to keep a boner without a bone when you're trying to bone.
Truly throwing a bone attack there are we
How convenient that the "word of god" (as many churches describe the bible) is so open to human interpretation.
But the ability to interpret it is also flexible.... Sometimes it's to be taking verbatim, sometimes it has to be interpreted (but only by the right people, of course)
I have to warn you that some believe these are no allegory.
Are we still talking about Catholics?
Nope. Not that I'm aware. To be fair no Catholic I have met in ages is nearly as extreme as these guys. But from some of my interactions via social media...I have seen them.
You know what really violates human dignity? Being raped by a priest and then having the church cover it up.
I can't say I really understand the argument against surrogacy they're making here. It seems like the same argument would mean that adoption shouldn't be allowed either. Their other argument on the matter seems to be that abuse of a system means a system should be eliminated, which is an interesting argument for the Catholic Church to make.
I remember a Bible story about a man that died before having an heir so his brother was to impregnate the widow. But surrogacy is bad for some reason?
Oh, surrogacy is something a woman could benefit from. Right.
I think their skydaddy logic is it can't be done without discarding eggs and as we all know each egg has a soul.
Meanwhile they eat eggs during lent.
I'm no expert but I think systemically raping kids and assisting those perpetrators is a slightly worse violation of human dignity
Funny I felt a lot less dignity without gender affirming surgery.
And on a bitchier note, my genitals may be handmade, but I’m allowed to use them.
Projecting as usual, are we?
Not breaking news: the Roman Catholic Church is not a force for good in the world.
I think offloading one's morality to a patriarchal power-hungry cartel is an embarrassment to human dignity, but you know what I do about it?
Let people live the one life they have in whatever way they want so long as it doesn't hurt anyone.
It's not anyone else's job to force their idea of dignity on people, but I guess the Catholic Church isn't known to stop their clergy from being forced onto unwilling targets.
the vatican can blast this dick
They'd only be interested if you were a minor
How fortunate it is that every single one of is sins and can all be forgiven, so we can just leave worrying about all that up to God, right? Right?
Or some shit. I'm an atheist, but I understand the myth better than most believers. Not that it matters because there is no logic or consistency anywhere in the doctrine, so why assume there is any in this edict?
god made light so why aren’t light bulbs playing god?
There is sin and there are sins. One that can be forgiven, others that are not likely to...now switching gender isn't on this list, and since there are animals thar do it on their own, I'd feel good about it. Also cursing the man isn't a hige deal - but don't do it - compared to cursing the Spirit. You want to live life accordingly, these comandements are probably the one christian way. By the way, the book of Exodus has many more rules which you can't follow today, such as the burnt offerings. You'd break the law ny doing that in a normal place now. So do the other books of Moses. Have you carried a stick (read: working) on the seventh day? That's also bad.
Modern society is by no means biblical and cannot afford to do so.
No it's not, but being abused by a priest sure as hell is.
Diderot said "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest". About time , if you ask me.
If "God created man and woman as biologically different" then who created all the different intersex people? Even if you ignore or dismiss trans people, there are other people whose sexual characteristics at birth were not so easily sorted into male or female, and others whose physical traits either don't align with the basic understanding of "sex" chromosomes or whose chromosomes are different than XX and XY.
Logically, if God exists, then either their statement is wrong and He does make people whose gender is indeterminate, or there is another god who is also making people. Or perhaps He is not that involved in the process, and "God's Plan" is more of a loose framework.
Because of course it has the worse take. Why would the Catholic Church think consent was something that mattered?
Maybe he just sprinkled some life and let evolution do the rest. Like, I'd do it if I were in that position. Like spores you know, to see hiw far your mostruosity can go against other monstruosities.
Not holding my breath, but I'd love to see a day when religious leaders run out of followers.
"Organization that has repeatedly violated human dignity by organizationally exploiting children for sexual purposes (when not outright abusing and murdering them for being the wrong color), and brutally oppressing those who it declares carrying the sin of "wrong think", thinks its allowed to have an actual opinion on the very concept of human dignity, much less what adult individuals pursue to obtain their image of it"
A man who claims he talks to a great sky wizard says the wizard doesn't like it when you do something that incidentally, he also does not like. He says he's very sorry but these are the rules, and the great sky wizard will be very cross with you if you don't follow them.
He says you'll be burned alive for eternity and deserve it if you seek out appropriate care for psychological issues. Wait no that can't be right can it?
Guys, guys, i’m starting to think this orthodox Christianity is just a lot of made up nonsense
The definition of what a gender entails should be vast enough that people don't feel the need to reaffirm it with drastic medical intervention with major health risks.
Let the men wear skirts and the women go topless.
Yeah, I'm not sure that you understand what trans people experience. The core issue, at least for a number of people, is not about wearing a particular article of clothing or not, it's that your body is wrong. That doesn't even get into matters of neurochemistry; T is awful for many trans women and E for trans men. Telling people it's okay to wear a skirt or go topless isn't going to help with that - for trans masc people, going without a binder would be significantly worse. Medical intervention is merited in cases where people want medical intervention. If someone wants medical intervention, and the research shows that said intervention is the best treatment for people who want such intervention, why would we not want to give said person said intervention?
The social engineering once forced upon the masses to increase slave production is finally coming close to irrelevance
Yeah, the Vatican threatens my unique dignity. It is so declared.
Aight, I've read through the article from The Guardian about it (Vatican calls gender fluidity and surrogacy threats to human dignity) and there are multiple layers of hypocrisy here, which I am not willing to sit through for how many of them are in these statement. It seems to me that the core of the problem is the insistent will to protect at all costs the biological side of thr gender regradless of the true self, which is what we call properly gender.
It’s astounding to me how on every social issue in the past 2000 years, the church is always like 25-100 years late on taking the right position, and they just never learn.
So look forward to the Catholic Church being ok with gender affirming surgery in 2050.
They're ignoring the genocide in Palestine, like they did in Germany.
So glad they're only blasting it and not slamming it.
This is barely news; the headline might as well be 'Hate group hates'. But jeez, I giggled at the start of the fourth paragraph with, "In its most eagerly anticipated section…" Even among Christians, even among very-very-Christians, is there anyone who "eagerly anticipates" the Vatican's declarations of doctrine?
God is dead, popey boi, keep your culty ideas to yourself
Heh, looks like the old folks are trying to keep their theories illogical!
I have to say I don’t personally think much of current gender reassignment, but it makes absolutely no sense to say that this current trend isn’t in some way aligned with ‘the lord’s plan’, should you believe in that. There are definitely people who feel better as the other sex, you’re trying to tell everyone that an all-knowing being couldn’t account for that?
It's part of the whole "trials and tribulations" and "works in mysterious ways" arguments.
When a friend of mine moved away to be with his trans girlfriend, my parents said it was a sign of the world's corruption in the End Times. That's how most Christians think, in my experience. Anything they personally agree with is God's will, anything they don't like is Satan's corruption, and anything they don't understand is "mysterious ways".
There's no need to think, or overthink...that either. Not all of us are the same. They really be making a mountain out of a sand gravel here.
something something yin and yang. Be a little based, gotta be a little unbased.
Balances out the universal gravitational whats its doohickeys or something.
can we just blow up the vatican
A heist at the Vatican is my best chance at being able to afford retirement at this point, I'd appreciate if one of the more ethical options to steal from isn't destroyed before I can get to it.
Can I be your tech expert who disables the alarms? Or at least the distraction?
You're in. Now we've just got to make sure we get into the right vault and not one that's just full of the "relics" of body parts from dead saints.
That doesn't sound fair to Italy. I am sure Italy has enough issues without random debris raining down on her.
Violence is not the answer to this level of zealously and hate. They will just squeeze their ignorant followers for money to rebuild bigger and more extravagant than before. You have to hurt them by making them a non-issue. Vote for political candidates and laws that remove religion from politics.