Casual game recommendations?

YourHeroes4Ghosts@beehaw.org to Gaming@beehaw.org – 104 points –

I'm looking for PC games that I can play while listening to podcasts- games that don't have engaging cut scenes or important dialogue, games that honestly don't require a lot of skill or thought.

I used to be really into things like Farm Frenzy, Rescue Team, hidden object games, that kind of thing. I got heavily into MMOs and stopped downloading casual games for a decade or so.

Now it almost feels like this sort of game isn't made anymore? Were they completely nuked by the existence of Gacha games, P2W, and anything that earns the dev a constant income stream? I'm happy to pay for a game once, but I can't be constantly buying booster packs.

I also don't want to play on mobile or on a console, PC Master Race here, haha.

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It's not clear to me that I could ever listen to podcasts while playing most of my library, but I'll do my best to list some with which I might try:

  • Euro Truck Simulator 2 (and, by corollary, American Truck Simulator). If you can listen to podcasts in your car, this is basically a similar experience :)
  • Super Hexagon. This is not a game about making conscious decisions, it's too fast for that. You'd have to turn off the music, and determine whether you can retain stuff you're listening to at the same time.
  • Race The Sun. This is somewhere in the middle of the above two.
  • Solace Crafting. This is a relatively bare-bones sandbox RPG with harvesting, crafting, and building elements, that doesn't require all that much decision making, and can be played at any pace.
  • Minecraft (the Java edition). You've probably heard of it! I recommend the Java edition due to the rich modding ecosystem; you can usually find a flavor of content that suits any purpose.
  • Cities: Skylines (and, by corollary, SimCity 4). These are both world-class genre-defining city builders, which can be played at your own pace, don't require a whole lot of active involvement, and pair well with background listening of your choice.

Path of Exile

Just pull up a build guide and zone out :)

This season's mechanic is neat! For those not in the know, it basically gives weapons a passive skill tree that's randomly generated per item, that you get experience by charging up and then activating pillars that spawn monsters.

The season mechanics can be pretty hit or miss but as long as they spawn a bunch of monsters people tend to be happy enough with them lol

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Powerwash Simulator is perfect for this.

This, it's so relaxing and satisfying.

Also would add Unpacking as well.

Unpacking is a great game, but it's a shame it's so short for what the OP (and me, it's part of why I'm here) needs.

This is the answer I was going to give. It’s my go to game when listening to podcasts. It’s relaxing, it’s satisfying, and doesn’t take a whole lot of attention so you can really focus on the podcast without missing anything.

Many roguelites could fall into this category, and are generally cheap to boot (i.e. vampire survivors).

Came here to suggest vampire survivors. Super cheap game that you can just turn your brain off and play.

this game is pretty dangerous. i got super hooked on it. after you get better and more unlocks, each run locks you into another 30 minutes. it was pretty awesome to get sucked into.

Any other games that you recommend?

I would just look through any number of online list of "Best Swarm Survivors". There's dozens of different themes and tweaks from the VS formula, including boat and train varieties! I also watch the YouTube channel Never Nathaniel as he's a pretty awesome source of both info and entertainment on the matter (as well as other games). He's literally the only streamer I've watched and I couldn't tell you why, his formula just works.

One more that is outside of the swarm survival genre, Child of Light. Though there is a fun and endearing story that irecommend, once you get through the first 20 minutes, you can kind of just not care and enjoy the simple but interesting play style of an almost-turned-based RPG.

I’ve actually gotten back into Guild Wars 2 for the first time since its release over a decade ago, and I’m really enjoying all the new content they added. It SEEMS complicated with all the MMO-style currencies but you can honestly ignore most of them and go at your own pace because there’s so much to do but none of it is required to have fun. It’s even more casual if I’m using a low intensity character build, aka just left click in combat to win

Came here just write just that! got into Guild Wars 2 some months ago. The first part of the has cut-scenes, but the story is somewhat short. Once it is over you may repeat parts of it, but you can also ignore it.

I currently use it to turn off my brain, just roaming around the huge world, with full control on how intensive the game is. Do I work on some end-game mount ? do I roam high-level areas ? or do I just chill and jump between low-level areas ?

However, I don't listen to music while doing so, as the game's music creates a very nice atmosphere.

Seconding Guild Wars 2! One of my favourite things about it is how when it comes to levelling, it supports whatever you want to do. If you literally just want to run around killing things and participating in dynamic events, you get experience for that. If you want to forego combat and just run around exploring the world and seeing what you can find, you get experience for that. If you want less freedom and would prefer a more structured story, guess what, you get experience for that. If you don't want combat or story, and instead would prefer to be a humble craftsman... yep, you get experience for that, too. (I accidentally leveled an alt to 80 just through crafting!)

The combat is a huge selling point for Guild Wars 2 in my opinion, as it spares you the dreaded 'hotbar bloat' of similar MMOs by keeping it simple. Every class/profession gets 5 main skills, 1 healing skill, 3 utility skills and an 'ultimate' skill. On top of that, a few of them may get a few extra buttons (e.g. for directing pets or swapping stances) but that's about it. Additionally, a lot of the content can be completed with any gear and more or less any build; you don't have to worry about minmaxing or being optimal if you don't want to.

Lack of hotbar boat also makes it a great game for Steam Deck!

That's very true! I haven't actually tried Guild Wars 2 on the Steam Deck yet myself, personally - the last time I looked, I recall that a fair few keybinds need to be set before it's playable and that seemed a bit too overwhelming to me at the time. Have you tried it? What's it like? c:

The back buttons are mandatory, and there’s a specific config someone made that I altered slightly for personal use, but I can’t remember the creator’s name. It was the highest used one at the time I downloaded it though. There’s definitely a small learning curve, but the reward is portable access to a great MMO!

Honestly I absolutely love the customizable nature of the Deck for individual programs, especially because I was able to pair 4 different build and equipment tabs to each of the face buttons so I can swap between all 3 elite specs for my engi main. I just wish they had official controller support with their UI like how I’ve seen FFXIV’s hotbar with multiple on-screen “pages” you can flip through easily.

I'm just about to give GW2 a go on my Deck. Thanks for this message - I'll take any advice I can get!

New players don’t seem to realize that you can completely ignore the personal story. It just gives you something to do (and some rewards like while getting to level 80, which is really easy nowadays. I would recommend you make a few alt characters to try out different classes and see which one you like the most. Just take it slow and try whatever looks interesting and dont feel obligated to stick with one activity! No need to learn everything all at once :p

Try Dorfromantik. It's a hexagonal puzzle game where you build a map using different tiles and connecting like with like. Very relaxing, doesn't require sounds or full attention.

Dorf is probably the most milage I've got out of $10 in years. I got it on sale during early access, and it's been my go-to casual game when I've got something else on the go pretty much ever since.

Stardew Valley is a really chill and fun game. You can talk to the towns people but don't have to and the dialogue is all very short if you do.

Yeah, I've played that game to death at this point, I'm afraid.

Ah, damn. I feel you though. I have way too much time in that game lol. Have you looked into Sunhaven? Its similar to Stardew.

I'll also add Urbek City Builder. It's a city building game but it's a more simplified one. Resource management is very easy and you can build your city as fast or as slow as you need.

My father really likes Mini Motorways. You could try something like that

He's a big fan of sim cities and zoo tychoon and stuff too

If you stick to the lower, less intense hazard difficulty levels, I find Deep Rock Galactic to be an excellent game to chill to. Can’t go wrong with badass Space Dwarven miners on a hostile alien insectoid planet. I only play with randoms via co-op, and it’s been nothing but a pleasant experience each time.

Someone already mentionned Dorfromantik. I'm doubling this. I also have a recommandation. It's not exactly what you asked for. But maybe give Superflight a shot. It's been one of my go to "I'm listenning to something but needs something to keep busy" game for me for years now.

EDIT: *Oh no! Someone already mentionned this game as well! Oh well. Doubling that too. *

If you're into simulation games I highly recommend American Truck Simulator.

It requires little to no thought. Pick a truck, find a job, and hit the road. Perfect for zoning out to some music or a podcast.

Euro Truck Simulator 2 was my go to after work, it was so relaxing delivering from point a to point b.

Mine is currently Civilization 6 and I don’t think I have anything else that could possibly fit; I occasionally have to step back and decide what to do next as it still is a strategy game, but since turns can take awhile (especially in late game since the AIs have to take their turns), having something else to pass the time helps. The dialogue is pretty inconsequential, and turning the game’s sound off won’t really change anything. I usually have music/podcasts going while I play.

(Worth noting it does have lots of DLC, but it doesn’t make winning easier and is entirely skippable.)

The entire Civ series are great for this, and have a lot of replay value, especially if you add mods for more wonders to tweaking the tech trees or whatever.

I also want to suggest Stellaris. It's not as brain-free as Civ because at times things can happen fast and there are often largish chunks of flavour text to read so it might not be ideal for podcasts, but music absolutely.

Just wondering if you think any of the DLC is worth it? I bought it awhile back before they had DLC and I was curious if there were any you liked. I know you said they are skippable but idk just wondering.

I’d say the biggest two DLC packs (Rise and Fall, Gathering Storm) can be worth it; though only on sale. They add a new era score system, natural disasters, and global warming. I bought Civ 6 in its platinum bundle (more than half off), while I like having them had I paid full price I wouldn’t have been happy. If you don’t want to play with them after you get them, you can still toggle them off at the beginning of a game. Then there’s individual civilization packs; if there’s some that interest you/come in a pack, that’s great, but you’re just getting one or two new civs to play with there. Don’t have the New Frontier or Leader Pass stuff, that’s in the anthology, but I’ve heard the Leader Pass doesn’t even run right on Mac or Linux. Hope this helps you out, definitely wait for the summer sale though!

Power wash simulator will be your best friend. No spoken dialogue, no important cutscenes, just you and a power wash gun. The only thing you'll miss out on listening to podcasts is the admittedly very soothing sound of PSSSSHHHHHHHHHH from the washer itself.

Great suggestion. Also, if people are into it Lawn Mowing Simulator is good as well.

I second this, it's like listening to music or a podcast while coloring a book. It's extremely soothing!

I use Shattered Pixel Dungeon for this. Nice and simple open source game without any bullshit. It's a roguelike.

Shattered Pixel Dungeon is so much fun but once i get past stage 2 i almost always die, i never get past depth 12

As someone who has played thousands of games of Shattered with >600 games just on my most recent phone (108 of those ascended) and has ascended with all the sub-classes... git gu... no, no, no, ask questions. Some of the mechanics are kind of subtle and exploiting them can take thought. I personally find the Huntress/Warden the easiest (because the spirit bow has unlimited ammo letting you sell off thrown weapons and the free seeds and dew drops can keep you alive).

i agree, the farthest i have gotten is with the huntress, the rouge is good sometimes for when your in a bind and can cloak to escape. the bad thing about the rouge is it takes a while for the cloak to recharge so by the time its charged all those enemies you escaped are back on you.

It's both PC and mobile too. I prefer the PC version but if you want something to idly play on the bus or whatever that's also great.

Skyrim. You CAN pay attention to what's going on but you don't have to, just look at the pretty landscapes while listening to your podcast and follow the questmarkers.

I have 1700 hours in OG Skyrim. I moved on to Elder Scrolls Online and now can't bear the way faces look in Skyrim. :-P

ESO was going to be my recommendation.

I've gotten to CP 1928 almost exclusively by doing crafting writs on ESO, every day, for seven years, while listening to podcasts. But doing the quests while listening to podcasts is not possible for me, because I like to actually follow the plotlines.

Dorfromantik is a very chill puzzle game that runs great on Steam Deck if that’s your thing, a favourite of mine while the TV is going in the background.

If you’re into factory games I 1000% recommend Shapez, which is a shape-building game that doesn’t have the notion of grinding or currency or running out of resources. It’s immensely satisfying when you get the perfect mechanism together and you’re churning out shapes. Definitely one for mouse and keyboard though.

Definitely recommend Dorfromantik! Islanders is another super chill casual game (and also a builder) that I started and fell in love with the other day.

Thanks for the recommendation, because of your post went to look at how it looked and played. As a result, got Dorfromantik installed on the Steam Deck and already having a good time!

Monster train is my go to right now. If you like the deck building genre such as Slay the Spire etc. You can put as much brain in as you want and it's still pretty fun.

If you are into roguelikes noita is really easy to pickup and put down with tons of spells and modifiers and a huge map to explore.

Noita is a fantastic game, but I'd say it's really the opposite of a game that

honestly don’t require a lot of skill or thought,

haha :D

I really enjoy basebuilders for relaxing. It's often just the right mix between just enjoying watching how stuff works, or solving problems at my own pace (being able to slow down, speed up or pause whenever needed). If you're interested in this genre I can recommend Timberborn, Against the Storm, Factorio - ascending by complexity.

The answer to your question is Factorio

They asked for a game, not a second job.

That said....play Factorio.

The first time I played it, it was like it did something to my brain. I'd boot up the game and then it would be like 9 hours later I'd snap out of a trance and when I closed my eyes all I saw were belts full of material. Fantastic game.

@Fulthi @YourHeroes4Ghosts @spaceace @Sarcasimo Do you need to buy it from a particular source to use the mods on the Factorio website?

It shouldn't matter if you get it from Steam or GoG. The Factorio Mod Portal is hosted by the dev and integrated into the game menu. You can also manually install mods. (Something you'd have to do on a server if you hosted your own Factorio server)

Not sure personally, but I bought on Steam and mods work perfectly fine on that. For Windows and Steam Deck both.

I don't know, I just bought it on steam but I never messed around with the mods. Sorry

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I want to try this game so bad, but I can't justify 35$ for a game like this. I hope we see some discounts during the summer sale

If I remember correctly, it specifically never goes on sale.

Yup the devs have stated they won’t put in on sale. In fact they raised the price fairly recently to adjust for inflation.

The game is worth every cent. Try the demo - you’ll know if the game is your jam or not pretty quick. (Though the demo is very “on rails” while the main game is much more Freeform and open)

Don't wait for a sale on this game, the developers have specifically said it won't ever go on sale

It has a free demo if you want to check if it is something you'd like. I definitely sank a shitload of hours into it and finished a few audiobooks and podcast backlog on it.

Satisfactory is also good in this genre. 3D and more exploration aspect.

You might be very correct, I have not played it yet but have heard much about how great it is.

Probably want to play with enemies off though. I find with enemies on the constant possibility of attack makes it hard to focus on audio content, plus combat requires your attention when it happens.

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Oldschool Runescape. The perfect game for watching something on the side. Just get into a rhythm and grind away

If you're a fan of Stardew Valley and games like that, might I suggest Disney Dreamlight Valley? While there is a story (and there are extra character-specific quests you can do), you don't have to do them (or indeed anything). You're free to do what you like.

It's currently my go-to game when I want to play something but I'm just not sure what. Running around collecting materials to craft new items to decorate my Valley (or even just seeing what my residents are doing) brings me joy and whiles away the hours before I know what's happening!

Another suggestion would be Slime Rancher, which is another low stakes (potentially no stakes, you can turn off the one 'enemy' in the game that might disrupt your cosy experience - the Tarr slimes) game which has you running (and renovating) a slime ranch (funnily enough). The slimes are adorable, the music is very chill, and the world is so colourful I often enjoy just roaming around enjoying the scenery.

Minecraft creative mode can be very relaxing but time consuming, it takes a while to build a big project but looks awesome when completed, you can go for a small hobbit home too and give in some detail, it takes your mind off of things sometimes, especially when doing the math to even builds out.

Loop Hero might be one to check out. The game has an auto-battle mechanic, and you basically just manage the map and the base.

Some of the paradox games maybe? I used to chill over Victoria II whilst doing things I really ought to have been giving my full attention.

Terraria may be fun for you. It's actiony but very explore oriented and at your own pace.

Goat simulator is a blast.

Bloons TD 6. It puts out what you put into it. There’s definitely some skill required but you can largely avoid most of that stuff. Once you have a semi working strategy, you can kinda cruise into new levels for a while no problem. It’s my favorite game to playb while listening to stuff.

For a casual game I definitely agree with BTD6. Such a fun tower defense game.

Not exactly an easy game, but Don't Starve has quite a lot of downtime that makes it great for listening to podcasts.

Also in the truck driving bucket - Snowrunner. The focus is on off road trucking, mud and snow physics, with a winch that you can use to unstick yourself.

The first game that popped into mind for this title was Dave the Diver. It is a lovely game where you fish in the morning, then serve up the fish at the sushi restaurant you work for in the evenings. I recommend you check out a video on it! It's technically early access, but the full game is set to release on the 28th.

Warframe is good for this. Lots of ways to tune your level of engagement through build choices. Most content rarely requires your full attention and story is only progressed in specific story missions that you usually play only once.

I have a Steam collection just for that purpose, called "zone-out games":

  • Factorio
  • Euro Truck Simulator
  • Viscera Cleanup Detail
  • Satisfactory
  • Space Engineers
  • Hardspace Shipbreaker
  • Rift Breaker
  • Monster Train
  • Jupiter Hell
  • Vampire Survivors
  • Dorf Romantik
  • DOOM (any)
  • Nethack

Some advice I want to give is that "games that require a lot of skill" is only a temporary blocker. If you enjoy a hard game enough to play through it repeatedly, it can become a podcast game. Many people play Bloodborne or Binding of Isaac to audiobooks, and roguelikes are generally like this.

That in mind, I have a list of games that are valid podcast games but I haven't built enough familiarity with them yet:

  • FTL
  • Binding of Isaac
  • Terraria
  • Risk of Rain
  • Against the Storm

Factorio is awesome. To make it even more chill - I turn off enemies and increase resources. Even without enemies that game gets so complex and involved. But still mindless.

A Short Hike has dialog and a shorter play time but you can just ignore that and soar around the island. It's got an isometric view with a pixel art style. I really enjoy it. I play it when I'm hung over.

Hades has been pretty fun

that has all kinds of engaging dialouge. The story and characters is a huge piece of the appeal.

Hades might be my favourite game of all time, but I'd say it's the opposite of a chill time

Well, I play it casually. I'm not that good at it, so I take it slow. But I probably agree with you anyway, it's a bit tense at times

Racing games, once you are good at them, fit this bill. I can win online races while watching YouTube videos in Forza Horizon.

But I'd say Farming Simulator is my favorite game to play while listening to podcasts or watching YouTube videos on the side. It's got enough going on to keep you engaged but you aren't doing any actions that are time critical or require deep focus.

Eufloria is that game for me.

Dang, I haven't read that name in a literal decade. When was it last updated?

I guess they added a few levels to Eufloria HD in 2020, 9 years after release.

  • Nobody mentioned Kerbal Space Program yet? While it's no longer indie, it was during most of the development. It's the space game. While it's not claiming to be a perfectly accurate simulation, it captures the essence of orbital mechanics pretty well. The xkcd comic about it is on point.
  • Cultist Simulator. It is a card game that lives from the cards' flavour text. The core gameplay is simple, but the mood the game creates is extremely captivating. You only get served small bits of information at once, and you have to connet the dots yourself (or get spoilers online...). Also, it's not an easy game, and unless you are really lucky you will not succeed in your first few playthroughs.
  • Unreal World. This is roguelike survival game set in a fantasy version of ancient Finland.

LOL, I just posted this like ten minutes ago!

I think all the games you mentioned require a lot more thought than I'm looking to give- I need to be able to follow a podcast while playing, and I'm in my 50s, my brain is not as agile as it used to be anymore. I also suck at physics puzzles and card games.

I just gave Cassette Beasts a shot and was instantly hooked. Fun PokeClone that is one of the best I've played and gets some stuff better than even Pokemon does. Also on gamepass if you've got that

You might like Super Auto Pets. Not my kind of game but it's casual and my friends loved it.

Turmoil:

It's a 2d game where you drill for oil, then have some light logistics management to do to load it in to barrels on horse waggons and then sell it. It's a lot of fun.

I seem to have a vague memory of playing this or something very like it long ago. As it's F2P I'll give it a whirl, thanks!

Turmoil is not free but it was at least at one point included in Amazon Gaming for Prime subscribers, for a temporary giveaway window.

Tetris effect, katamari damacy - these two are the epitome of replayability and pick up/put down mechanics IMNSHO

Astroneer is pretty low stakes, I played it mostly while listening or watching other things

This is my exact genre of choice. I’m only gonna list the games I play, because I can’t name them all.

Just about any sandbox survival game will fit the bill:

  • Minecraft (obvi, but needs another mention)
  • Satisfactory
  • Rust
  • Valheim
  • Raft (there’s some story to read if you want to actually complete the game)

Then you have the simulators:

  • Dreamlight Valley (a lot of story in this one, but once you get past the dialogue and tutorials it’s basically fetch quests and farming)
  • My Time at Portia (same with this)
  • Car Mechanic Simulator 2021
  • House Flipper
  • The Sims
  • TABS (honourable mention; whimsical battle sandbox with some customisability)

Snow Runner! Very chill if you like driving and nice sceneries. But it becomes Dark Souls real quick.

Unpacking, Everything, A Little to the Left, Gorogoa (if puzzles are chill for ya), and Spiritfarer are a few that come to mind.

Diablo games are easy to play while listening/watching other things. Diablo 4 does have a story, but you don't need to watch it if you don't want to. And after it's beaten, the story will never bother you again. Diablo 2 Remaster is also great if you're feeling a bit more old school.

For D3, I know some (most?) people would hate it but I absolutely love mindlessly blasting through rifts over and over again while listening to something.

What about tycoon games ? Old school ones are usually still very playable. Or for something more recent Planet Zoo can be as slow and peaceful as you like

Cities: Skylines is worth a mention too! There's a bit of a learning curve but it's good fun. And pocket city 2 for a mobile version

Pokémon, via emulation.

I'm playing Ultra Moon on the Steam Deck and it's wonderful and chill.

I've started playing Infinite Fusion this week and it's really fun!

I love ARPGs for this. Path of Exile and Last Epoch both have a highly repeatable endgame where you can just put on your media and blast maps/monoliths mindlessly for a few hours

Satisfactory.

If you want to "beat" it, then it requires a bit of thinking and planning, but honestly it's such a fantastic go-at-your-own-pace kinda game. It's an open world factory building/sandbox building game. There are objectives and missions, but you have no time limit, and there is some freedom in choosing what you want to work on next.

It's also multiplayer, so you could invite a friend(s) to join and help you explore or find resources. I frequently will watch streams/youtube while playing.

The X3 games, I think?

They may be ancient, and weird, and buggy, and huge time wasters, and frustrating, but hey I have like 500 hours of playtime on them

... oh, they also have a learning curve that C++ developers are afraid of but I would still call them "casual games" somehow

Mordhau is definitely one of few casual games medieval fighting game where you can mindlessly kill other players and laugh your ass off. But at the same time its the type of game you can get really good at too. So it has a very in depth combat experience

Honestly a game called Carto. It’sa very relaxing game where you don’t battle, you don’t die and there is no “fail and restart scenarios”. It’s isometric puzzle adventure game where you can change the level you are exploring by literally going to the map screen and then rotate and move the map tiles around.

The point of the game is to collect more map tiles so you are able to fit them together in a way that solves the level and you move on.

It’s great.

TBH Minecraft Parkour in the Hypixel server's housing area are good for this. I usually play one until I starts getting hard/finish then switch to the next one while I'm watching YouTube.

Dead Cells was my go-to podcast game for quite a while! Story tidbits are few and far between, and it’s more about finding your stride in subsequent runs. There’s a lot of DLC that often goes on sale too.

Part of my daily routine is to play Forza Horizon 5 while both listening to podcasts and working out on an elliptical machine every morning. I’m doing it on an Xbox, but it’s available on PC too. This kind of game is totally playable while listening to podcasts and still actually being able to follow what’s going on in the podcast.

how do you play forza while on an elliptical?! i feel like this could revolutionize my workout game.

Celeste can be quite casual and also challenging at the same time.

You can die as many times and the game doesn't punish you, you can save at any point and come back exactly where you lef off later.

Celeste’s difficulty scaling is great. First play through, though, be ready to break a sweat maneuvering some rooms. It also has great music, which is at least worth a listen.

Oh the music alone is worth it :) I sometimes find myself listening to it at work, and if you leave the suggestions on after it's done what follows is also incredible, found a lot of cool indie games based on that, GRIS is a good example.

Planet Coaster has pretty casual, fun gameplay. Just building theme parks and some light crowd management. It is very good for playing while listening to other podcasts/audiobooks.

Two casual-adjecent games I played a lot over the past week are Mini Motorways and Inscryption: Kacey's Mod.

The first one is like a simplified city building simulator that works more like an evolving puzzle, you just build roads to connect houses and buildings of the same color while trying to keep traffic moving along. It might sound overly simple but it gets hectic and intense incredibly fast.

The other is an expansion to the original Inscryption game, which was a roguelike deckbuilder with a horror-ish spin that, no spoilers, went places lmao. What the expansion does is essentially take out all the story and convert a specific part of the game into an actual endlessly repeatable roguelike. It's challenging, but very engaging, and the presentation is just 10/10.