State of emergency declared as Ukraine launches raid into Russia

MicroWave@lemmy.world to World News@lemmy.world – 463 points – Putin accuses Ukraine of 'provocation' amid alleged border incursion
bbc.com

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On Wednesday evening, Ukrainian MP Oleksiy Honcharenko said the Ukrainian army had established control over the Sudzha gas hub - a major gas facility involved in the transit of natural gas from Russia to the EU via Ukraine, which has continued despite the war. It is the only point of entry for Russian gas into the EU. 

Although this has not been verified by the BBC, Mr Honcharenko's comment was the first confirmation of an incursion into Russian territory by a Ukrainian official. Kyiv had previously not commented on reports of a cross-border attack.

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Earlier, President Vladimir Putin accused Ukraine of launching a "major provocation" 

How dare they provoke the people who have been relentlessly attacking their country for two and a half years.

Ten and a half. And that’s only if we discount Tuzla island dispute and continuous attempts to take control of politics and economy.

Euromaiden was in 2013 somehow. How has it been that long

I'll never forget watching the live feed almost every night for weeks. Then Simon reporting from the front during the Russian invasion for Vice.

I remember a video interview with a Ukrainian soldier and a bomb fell near them, while still smoking a cigarette he just casually picks up a piece of hot shrapnel to show the camera and drops it like he was mildly annoyed about being interrupted.

Fucking Russian psychos use the majority of their missiles on civilian targets and now suddenly Putin has a problem with (alleged! I frankly don't believe it for one second) “indiscriminate shooting from various types of weapons, including missiles, at civilian buildings, residential buildings, and ambulances.”

This is mobile warfare with a veteran, armored brigade using a mix of latest and greatest Western gear. If they had trouble before, this is going to be a nightmare for them. Oh and those F-16s just got into service.

War is horrific in many ways, and in most cases its the innocent who suffer. Lets keep that in mind.

Saying that - Fucking lol. You fucked around, time to find out.

The acting regional governor, Alexei Smirnov

Come on. That's a made up name.

The Governor of Texas isn't "John Hamburger".

It could be, if we repost the denials enough

Did you think the alcohol wasnt named after a human? Are u high or somethin?

Als Hamburg is a real city. Its totally normal for things to be named after people and cities.

Hamburg's name derives from the Hammaburg whose name is thought to derive from *ham- "angle, angular terrain by rivers, bay", as well as burg, "elevated fortification, settlement". Here is it overlaid on the current terrain, constructed in the 8th century, though settlement is attested to the 4th century BC. First mentioned in writing 834, likely previously seat of local Saxon nobility, then taken over. Previously known to the Romans as Treva. That early 800s date matches the direct aftermath of Charlemagne's Christianisation-by-genocide of the Saxons, with the first church being constructed in 810. Also, the writ it was first mentioned in happens to be the one that sets up Ansgar as Bishop of Hamburg.

Republic since 1292. Trade-wise where the Ossenpadd and Elbe meet, in case you wonder who had the genius idea of building a harbour city inlands: Since about the bronze age (2000BC thereabouts) up until industrialisation it has been a vital trade route, going straight through Hedeby where you also get a competitive connection to the Baltic Sea, a role which was later inhabited by Lübeck.

What an absolutely tremendous waste of your time. I love that about you. Thanks for teaching me about etymology of a 8th century settlement for almost no reason whatsoever.

Smirnoff isn't Russian.

The brand name literally comes from the Russian name though (Смирнов Smirnov/Smirnoff).

Ukraine should create a referendum to annex the entire Kursk region. Russia says it's legal to do so.

RuZZia: [Invades Ukraine]

Ukraine: [UNO reverse card]

I heard they did a vote and the population of Kursk overwhelmingly voted to join Ukraine nod nod

This will be interesting. Either Putin goes back on his word and mobilizes more people into his special military operations to bolster the defenses. Or he seems weak for allowing Russia to be invaded.

Good dilemma.

Putin goes back on his word and mobilizes more people into his special military operations to bolster the defenses

This would be easy to spin, it's no longer a special operation it's become a war of survival against the Ukrainian Nazis and their gay Jewish NATO allies, the very thing our lord and saviour Putin was trying to prevent with the special operation!

Sure it could be.. but still... It would require moscovites to be drafted.. and that would make the whole war more real for them. I'd imagine Ukraine would then spend some extra attention to these battalions, to drive the point home.

Russian ultranationalists have gone on vacation until further notice.

I wonder how many operatives they're going to sneak into the country through this raid to do longer term damage via reconnaissance and sabotage. Plenty of opportunity with all this chaos and the ability to bring a large amount of supplies to stash things.

I imagine the distraction is the main goal.

Looking at the map:

  • Russia tried to stretch Ukraine with a distraction near Kharkiv
  • so now Ukraine is trying to stretch Russia with a distraction yet further north

I don’t know what value that region may have to the war effort if either side but this initial attack seemed well targeted

It’ll be interesting to see Europe’s reactions when they turn off the gas flow, and force Europe to stop being hypocrites

Thats most likely the main reason, but they don't get many opportunities like this to slip some people in. It seems like it'd be a waste to not leave behind a team or two to go deeper and gain intel/sabotage things.

force Europe to stop being hypocrites

Not sure what you mean? This is a proxy war. The objective is to bleed Russia and end up owning a big chunk of Ukrainian assets (or our banks will). But mess with the gas supply of the EU and support is going to turn hard on Ukraine.

It's possibly this is going to turn into a long turn problem between the EU and the Ukraine left bitter by the war. Of course, every crisis is a great opportunity to make money! Even a hypocrisis

Weirder than that, it can't be easily bombed without permanently disabling Russia's ability to earn revenue. If Ukraine just sits on it they can hold Russia economically hostage indefinitely.

Finally some excellent development. Time to Make Putin into Poutine.

Why would they want to control the gas facility?

It is the only point of entry for Russian gas into the EU.

But that gas goes through Ukraine. They could have stopped it at any time.

Cut off tail of snake and it will eventually grow back. Cut off head of snake and it cannot grow back.

But Ukraine was making a ton of money transporting Russian gas over their territory (before the war). Presumably they want the war to end with some kind of agreement that restores this deal, no?

They where making a lot of money there. But Russia was making more money and used it to stash a fund that allows them to finance this war and stave off the effects of the sanctions.

Ukraine will need to do much rebuilding anyway.. this allows them to leave Russia with a destroyed gas node and less income all the while keeping plausible deniability on who destroyed it. Russians blow up stuff "they did not mean to" all the time. No need to question who is to blame for the destruction of the node.. it's the party that started shooting.

Plus it gives Orban something to explain back home too once his citizens end up in the cold. Or he needs to pivot and spend his euros elsewhere meaning less money for Russia.

Win-win-win...

Russia has consistently used that gas as leverage over Ukraine and the EU for the past 20 years or so.

And the EU was happy to buy it instead of transitioning away from it, thinking trading with Russia would pacify it.

Sure, if the agreement is that Ukraine gets gas for free for the next 100 years as part of reperations russia has to pay.

?

By blowing it up and causing an ecological disaster in their own country?

There should be cut off valves where they could have done it safely, but this is Russian built, they used positive power coefficients on their nuclear power plants...

You can't count on common sense safety measures.

There are definitely cut-off valves. Ukraine already considered cutting off the gas but decided not to.

Sabotaging a gas line does a lot to damage your own position because natural gas is VERY toxic. Controlling the source though is ALL power

There's shutoff valves, they don't need to blow it up. That's why the story about Russia supposedly blowing up nordstream never made sense either.

They would be liable to be sued for massive amounts for breach of contract of they just shut it off normally. The pipe destruction got them off that hook.

(i'm personally not 100% sure who did it, but there were realistic reasons for Russia to do it)

Sued in which court, which would enforce it how exactly? Russia is already doing a whole invasion in breach of international law, (Putin is a defendant personally for war crimes) and the West has basically already sanctioned all assets within its reach.

sure.

i didn't claim the Kremlin to be the most rational people in the world.

It makes sense if the idea is that they want to force EU to use (fund) the new pipelines elsewhere.

That's a direct pipeline, it seems. Goes straight to the EU.

There's a different pipeline (maybe several, not sure) going through Ukraine.

Sabotage all the metering, etc. and let Ukraine and EU receive as much as they can for free.

And then just hold it. If Russia tries to reclaim it, they end up bombing their own pipeline.

If they cut it off they remove the one entry point of gas into the EU crippling the export.

Im sure the EU wouldnt be very happy either but they diversified over the last 2 years away from russian gas.

On the other hand holding it also opens the door for concessions from Russia.

Most of the EU is fine with it, it's basically just the governments of Hungary and Slovakia throwing a hissy fit

Fucking Wah Wah.

Those countries had a chance to be on the right side of history, and they screwed the pooch. Enjoy freezing in a couple of months.

As a Slovak person, currently horribly embarrassed for my own proto-fascist government, I wholeheartedly agree. We've had our chance, but majority of voters over here are mentally 50 years in the past and brainwashed by Russian disinfo campaigns. We really are gullible idiots.

EDIT: That said, it's mostly just our government making performative noise for benefit of its voter base. We are not affected nowhere near as much by Ukraine's current gas block as they want you to believe.

The gas is transiting via Ukraine already (which... what?!) so they could have cut it off anytime before, I don't see how gaining control over one station more changes anything... I'm sure there's some info we are missing here.

Blowing up a pipeline produces more risks as the gas is toxic and now you have a fireball on your land.

Better to cut it off at the source and sabotage any attempt to restore it.

Blowing up? You just close it. A pipeline has hundreds of valves and compressors along the way, no need to blow it up if it goes through your territory.