What made everyone move to Bluesky or Threads instead of Mastodon?
What made everybody move from a corporate social media platform to another corporate social media platform instead of the fediverse?
After all, the Fediverse and Activitypub is much more mature than Bluesky and the copycat AT protocol or Threads and ... whatever they use.
and I'm saying that as a firm Mastodon user and believer.
2 and 3 are massive. I'm on Mastodon, but am having a much better time on Bluesky. Mastodon is full of gatekeeping and policing and people complaining - Bluesky is just fun and interesting, like Twitter 12 years ago
Who are these people who actually FIND users go follow on either service???
I have Bluesky. I have Mastodon. I log into each every few months, realize nothing has changed, and there is nobody to follow.
Then I don't use either, until I wonder a few months later "heeeey, I wonder if people are on these services yet......"
Still no.
Mastodon revolves around following topics and hashtags, not individuals. I learned that early on, and am having a much better experience.
Sounds like a worse lemmy 😅
Not really. In terms of engaging with posts, oh my god, absolutely it's worse. Twitter and its clones suck when it comes to engaging with things people post (but Mastodon at least makes it a bit better by increasing the character limit). But there's just something different about following a hashtag versus following a Lemmy community. Like for example, when it comes to getting highly detailed, up-to-the-minute news about things, Mastodon beats Lemmy every time. Additionally, I can see people's random, one-off takes that wouldn't really warrant a post on Lemmy.
I would argue too that it's not even true that you should just be focused on following hashtags, but rather that you should be trying to do both.
To me, Lemmy is the type of place I could kill two hours; for Mastodon, it's maybe 15 minutes, but that doesn't make it inferior, just a different use-case. It's pretty apples-to-oranges.
Well then it will never be useful for me. I want to follow PEOPLE. I want people to follow me for the random shit I say.
Then they retweet the random shit, and now a whole NEW group of people can wonder what's wrong with me.
I follow hashtags I like, then see who the people are who use those tags, then follow those people.
I find that I discover people that way I would not have found otherwise.
It's worked well for me so far. I wasn't a twitter person before though, so I don't know if I have the experience you did for comparison.
See, I already know who I want to follow. I want to follow Nintendo. I want to follow Game Grumps. I want to follow my local pro wrestling indy. I want to follow MXRPlays.
But none of them are on the fediverse. Although, Andy Richter is on BlueSky. So that's something......I guess......
Ah, yeah fair point there.
Word.
If you start following hashtags, then you find interesting people. There are also curated lists that you can sign up for. That will introduce you to a lot of new content.
there's plenty of that going on, too, just not on as large a scale.
Then it's not the platform for you.
IIRC there's an iOS only frontend that fills that niche.
Also there is a trending section but its hidden behind the "explore" page, along with the search function. One of many reasons I really don't like Mastodon.
Put hashtags on your random shit and more people will find it
I'm going to copy/paste my last comment. You tell me what hashtag I'm supposed to use.
#random #absurd #mentalinstitution #helpme
There’s algorithms you can subscribe to and use to discover people based on your interests. Theres also algorithms that show you posts based on who you follow and what posts you like. You can also enable your normal Following feed to show you some algorithm posts
I'm following like 3 people. One is a bot that reposts things from twitter. One is a bot that posts local weather. And one is what I THOUGHT was Nintendo, but turns out it's just Nintendo@Lemmy.World.
Well that’s the issue then stop following bots? Look up a hashtag or keyword and find people or subscribe to one of the many algorithms
Use lists on bsky to find people.
And just gained a million people, biggest spike yet. So should be a bit more active.
Yeah, but won't those 1 million all be speaking spanish?
Nope, portuguese
Also no one pays attention to language settings on Mastodon so your threads are full of German and French speakers with no way to filter them.
This is the thing I dislike more about Mastodon, I do not know if Lemmy handles it differently, but I don't have this problem with Lemmy.
*Portuguese
Potato/Tomato.
I guess some people don't get the joke.
The sayings potato/potahto and tomato/tomahto mean they're the same thing.
No one in their right mind would say a potato is a tomato or vice versa, just like no one would ever argue Portuguese and Spanish are the same. They're both of a category (veggies and languages respectively) but totally different and distinct items within that category.
First person to get it right.
It’s 2m now.
And plenty of them pick up English online
Depends a bit on the type of person and content you want to follow. But if you like retro computer Shenanigans etc. I know action retro is on Lemmy and Mastodon and I follow them on mastodon. But yes General content for the normies probably not so much.
Take Brazil. Blusky saw the writing on the wall with Twitter, so they threw a ton of money into media. Guess where everyone went.
Do you have a source for that?
The over policing thing is so true. I’ve gotten messages from techhub.social mods with warnings about making jokes that even hinted at breaking one of their precious rules. Like if I did something wrong, ban me I guess. It’s pretty clear I didn’t and the mod just wanted to flex his power towards me.
Regarding 2: you can also join the Fediverse this way with certain clients I believe. You are automatically signed up for lemmy.world for example
So don't use it then. Gotcha.
I'm not on any of the services currently, but I have tried Mastodon in the past and point 4. was what made me bounce off it. I know Mastodon flaunts its algorithm-free feed as almost a point of pride, but as a user it just doesn't do it for me. I could not get it to serve me the type of content I wanted the way I wanted, and it just felt like way too much work for what I was looking for.
I solved this issue by following multiple tags that interest me. People tend to tag their posts on Mastodon it seems, so discovering posts about, say, wine and cacti is as easy as following #wine #cactus #cacti #redwine #oragewine and so on and so forth - it's working pretty good for me without an algorithm recommending stuff to me, maybe it's worth a try?
I'd still rather have algorithmic recommendations of what's been "hot" lately in the tags I follow over a chronological feed. But I'm considering giving Sharkey/Firefish/Iceshrimp another go.
Marketing, sure, but the onboarding from Instagram was a massive factor for Threads growth.
If Mastodon wins out in the long run the only reason will be persistence.
All these other "like Twitter but ______" micro blogging or whatever sites only stay viable while they're profitable.
If Bluesky or Threads become (net) unprofitable, they'll die. Mastodon is already unprofitable, so that can't kill it.
I think we could compete with #1 just by word of mouth.
For #2 some person or group needs to develop a Mastodon app (FOSS obviously) that has a "just do this part for me" option, probably automatically enabled.
#3 is on us. We have to do what we can to make Mastodon (and Lemmy) more open and accepting without falling pretty to the paradox of tolerance.
#4 is hard... Although I think if Mastodon follows or tries to replicate the "early" Facebook user experience where most or all of the content people got was from people they follow, that could be better. The only challenge is that algorithms tickle our anger/hate/disgust impulses to drive and maintain engagement. That's some very strong "lizard brain" stuff.
So... let's get going y'all! :)
There's no way in hell, even if you ignore #5
Absolutely agree with point 2, not just for Mastodon, but others like here on Lemmy or Misskey or whatever it may be.
The process of finding an instance can sometimes be annoying because you might find an instance that sounds alright, like I did for Mastodon, and then find that there's the problem of sign-ups not available. That, and signing up for the instance I got on then had a waiting period for account review and all that before I could do anything.
I assume, from what I've heard, all you gotta do for threads and bluesky is just sign up and start posting with less effort, which is what the majority of people want.
There are some advantages to algorithms for discovery - it's certainly is more user friendly. It's just a shame they tend to enshitify or become toxic. Bluesky seem to offer an API of sorts to plug in feeds you create. Perhaps open algorithms are more accountable?
They have marketing budgets.
Does Bluesky? Have they been running marketing? Much of what I've seen/heard of it has been more a result of Twitter imploding and people bringing up alternatives than any concerted marketing pushes.
edited for clarity, realized I'd overlooked Threads mention
They probably have good discovery and trending post mechanisms. Mastodon makes it a point not to have one, which results in a wholly uninteresting feed for the average user. I'm only on mastodon, but I very rarely use it, because it mostly sucks unless you spend several, several hours trying to track down fun accounts to follow yourself.
That is my experience too. It's because there is no distinction between posts and comments, I think. It's about as interesting as my sms chats with friends would be to strangers.
I'll speak about my experience. Bluesky feels like an upgrade to Twitter. There are many algorithmic feeds to choose from, and it's easy to discover people to follow. Mastodon, on the other hand, is a straight downgrade from Bluesky because it is lacking in those features.
I imagine a lot of people leaving Twitter feel similarly. They don't care much about privacy or federation. Bluesky just works, and that's what matters to them.
What do you mean by privacy? Mastodon doesnt have privacy or encryption
I guess a lot of people feel like Mastodon is more private because it's smaller. Which is a kind of privacy, I guess, until it isn't.
Because the Mastodon community did the same thing we do every time there is a chance to get people away from corporations (e.g. Linux vs Windows).
People were looking for an alternative. The general consensus was it was hard to really grok federation. So, of course, The Community insisted on explaining federation and why it was good while basically only commenting on the instances that had closed applications. It was the equivalent of insisting someone who wanted to try Linux for gaming NEEDS to use arch and only needs to know twenty command line operations to get up and running.
So... everyone instead just went to Bluesky and Threads where sign-up links were provided rather than directory links and manifestos.
And... I am perfectly happy with that. Lemmy has a LOT of issues where so much of the community is talking about their ex-girlfriend (reddit) all the time and we basically get constant content and engagement farming that makes no fucking sense considering the userbase.
Whereas Mastodon actually IS a really good community that feels very different from twitter/bluesky/threads. It isn't for everyone but I very regularly have genuinely good conversations with people in the town hall/microblog format. Whereas... I am not sure if I have ever had even a meaningful conversation on lemmy (whereas I've probably had maybe ten on reddit over the years?).
Wild! This was my exact thought as I was signing up for Mastadon. I spent like 15 minutes figuring out what Mastadon is, what server to join, what each server means. Then I did the thing like I did with Lemmy and created half a dozen accounts waiting to see which server gave me my "Account Created" email first.
I agree with you, people end up going the perceived “easy route” because of the amount of explaining and low level protocol exposure that they receive from someone who is trying to sell them on joining an ActivityPub network. And that’s just the people who are trying to encourage them to join, then there’s the people that straight up think “normal social media” people don’t belong on the fediverse because of one biased reason or another…
Valid question, but Americans in particular are easily swayed by the fact that the corporate ownership is listed as a "Public Benefit Corporation." Bluesky is a PBC and for most people that's enough "proof" that they will "be for the public good."
In that it is set up to "benefit the public good" people just... buy into that, even if the company isn't actually benefitting the public good.
Look at how long it took for people to wise up that the Susan G. Komen foundation was spending most of its money on their CEOs and ads and very little on actually helping people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_G._Komen_for_the_Cure#Pinkwashing
For the general public, Open Source generally means "difficult to set up and use with bad user interface."
And yes, the whole self-hosting thing with numerous servers is confusing to people who have never had to step outside of the corporate-dominated internet.
All that is self-evident based on the original reddit exodus to here on Lemmy. The initial exodus lead to tons of people complaining about lack of features on Lemmy with very few people actually stepping up to contribute to the code-base to bring those features to light. They're just far too used to private company doing all that "for free" (*cough for all your private data cough) and struggle to understand how the different way it is set up means you don't get all the fancy features from the get-go.
So people saw an option with corporate sponsorship and money behind it, and they leap to that. Also I'm sure Bluesky is investing in advertising their product, which is competing with zero advertising dollars spend on the no-corporate fediverse.
I don't disagree with your points but I think they apply to pretty specific groups. I doubt that the average person knows or cares that Bluesky is a PBC. The reaction of the average person to 'open source' is probably, "I have no idea what that is and please for the love of god don't explain it to me."
Dude.....I have zero clue how to use linux. Which I assume is easier than writting code. You think I'm going to write a program in C++ or whatever language?
Saying the users aren't developing the program is like saying the hospital patients aren't willing to be their own doctor.
Users will ALWAYS bring up issues, and if the developers want the platform to grow, they'll implement upgrades to fix those issues.
Otherwise, you just have a userbase that rejects your platform, goes somewhere else, and a small group on the platform wondering why it's not growing.
Which is basically the core of this post.
To be fair, people having ideas for features is a valuable contribution in its own right.
Entitlement to them, not so much. But feature suggestions have value even if many of them aren't practical and many more never get added.
Agreed, but during the exodus it was less "this is a positive feature that we need and I'm willing to be patient" it was more like:
"This feature not existing is why no one will ever use this product! I'm sick of this and going back to reddit!" after being on Lemmy for 10 fucking minutes.
Oddly enough that secondary exodus is probably why this place is so much more positive
This is weird on multiple levels, Bluesky code is Open Source, it’s federated and no one gives a damn about it being a PBC. It’s mostly about culture why people have gone to Bluesky and Threads
No, AT is open source, not Bluesky
There's a few technical and non technical reasons someone might be on Bluesky/AT instead of Activity Pub. Protocol specific there's:
) Account ownership (theoretically at least, migration is still in development). Though it's hidden behind domain based identification there's a cryptographic key that let's you migrate to another PDS even if yours is down or banned you.
) Performance. Hosting something like a PDS is lighter than an Activity Pub instance.
) User level configuration. Bluesky let's you set custom moderation lists and algorithms, something you can't on Activity Pub.
) Compatibility. Building something like a link aggregator on AT that is compatible with a microblogging platform like Bluesky is likely a lot easier then Activity Pub since AT is broken up into PDSs and Relays. (To be fair compatibility does work on Activity Pub, but it's got jank).
There's also some less technical reasons as well:
) Bluesky is a platform and you don't need to learn a protocol to use it. Yeah it's not that hard to learn how any of the big three protocols work, but it's also not that hard to change your car's oil or sew ripped cloths instead of replacing them - but how many people do those? I'd guess 80% of Lemmy is an IT guy between 20-45 so it can get a little echo chambery on how easy tech is. One if the reasons Threads makes up 99.5%+ of the fediverse.
) Defederatiation is becoming a mess. If some random Joe has a friend on Bluesky & Nostr (both bridged), a few on threads, and a few spread across different instances; yet he can't reach all but 1 or 2 of them from the instance he chose to join on joinmastodon it might be time to reconsider how things are done. Techy people might have no problem sifting through a long list of servers to find the right one, but somebody who's already on the fence is probably going to quit at that point.
) Bluesky has a more mainstream culture, while the fediverse has very specific thoughts and ideas. Had I said I was on Windows you all might have put a hit out on me 😆
Sorry for that
I don't think I've ever seen someone use parenthesis for an unordered list. Why not use the supported markdown?
Mastodon and the fediverse in general are weirdly user-unfriendly, and then some fucking programmer pops in to say,
"Oh! You can fix that! All you have to do is hop over to their github page and..."
Lol
If they can make the user experience good, we might get the basis for a new internet, but they'd have to build it first.
I thought that was a feature
I needed to scroll way too much to see people mention marketing and advertising. It's a huge deal.
The power of good advertising is not to be underestimated. There is a good statistically proven reason why so much money flows into it. And it's not only traditional advertising but viral and "astroturfed" advertising.
Too many smug people think, "advertising doesnt work on me! Hah! Only weak minded normies fall for it..."
Wrong.... Advertising works. And that's the reason a shit ton of money that goes into it.
You want to know the reason why i run adblockers in my browser AND DNS levels? Because i KNOW advertising works on me.... i KNOW i'm not smart enough to outsmart the army of engineers, and copywriters generating this stuff.
Source: i work in advertising lol
A marketing budget. The Fediverse has none, and we're competing with the big boys.
I used mastodon for a year. It didn’t really work out for me. I just took so much effort to find content or build an audience.
I didn’t go to threads because it’s owned by Zuck. But Bluesky is FOSS add free and decentralised, so I tried it out, and honestly (I’ll probably get hate here for this) but the experience is far better than mastodon. There’s an algorithm, everything works. Mastodon had always been buggy for me. The UI is nice, the community is nice etc.
Plus thanks to bridgy, all of my bluesky posts are automatically displayed on mastodon and I can follow people from mastodon on bluesky.
Is it really? I always heard that it's impossible to have another server independent from Bluesky's
Anyway, thank you for your comment!
https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/22/24080334/bluesky-self-hosting-servers-data-federated
pretty sure it isn't.
https://github.com/bluesky-social
I'm only on the fediverse but I miss algorithms. Recommended accounts (which to be fair exists on a corner of Mastodon), similar accounts to one you just followed, custom home feed, suggested posts, etc. Discoverability sucks on fedi and the lack of interest from devs for some sort of private FOSS implementation is disappointing.
Loops was like let's have a "For You" algo early this year but even that seems to be a dead idea.
I'm on both Mastodon and Bluesky but BS feels smoother and gives me more content after following some users and content than Mastodon ever did. I really want MD to work out and I'll go back there but I have neither the time nor the skills to develop or grow it myself.
We learned to hate "algorithm" but those can actually be good if creator wants to help us insted of manipulate us.
Without a friendly algorithm to help us, we have no chance in finding our way around all this information around us.
On Bluesky most of the algorithms are made by users, that’s another plus
My perspective as someone who is mainly active in the anime/gaming fandom and gamedev space:
Overall, I think the main problems on Mastodon's side are difficult onboarding and lack of actual community-building efforts. Also, the community just seems to be less welcoming for creators in general imo
Bsky is more twitter like and less confusing than mastodon.
Bsky is federated too.
Just bridge them all together. Threads and nostr too. Then everyone can use what they want.
edit: seems this already exists. https://techcrunch.com/2024/07/09/openvibe-combines-mastodon-bluesky-and-nostr-into-one-social-app/
Moved here and never looked back.
I still don't understand those platforms. Didn't when Twitter launched and still don't now that there's several of them. Same thing for like Facebook or its predecessors. They're all more about the person than the message and I honestly quite frankly don't give a shit about random people on the internet.
I think different people enjoy different social media types. I don't really "get" microblogging either but there's no denying its hugely popular.
I use both, but honestly, some mastodon users can't help but be outright patronising and hostile to newcomers.
The whole "we don't do that here" vibe clearly puts folk off. Weirdly, it isn't the long term users that do that, bug more recent converts.
Why do you think that is?
My personal opinion is that it was:
I know it's not the main point, but I wouldn't call Linux fractured. Linux has multiple choices, but they all work fine unless you're going into an experimental realm or uncommon distros that beginners shouldn't be getting near anyways.
Networking effect
Mastodon required people to join a server which made out to people who are used to signing up to a single website for the past 20 years or such, seam too complex.
You also end up in a situation where social media managers have to reach engagement and impression targets and don't think which is best platform that will not be taken over Elon musk or Mark Zuckerberg style, but which will reach engagement targets the quickest.
Initially I heard about mastodon as a Reddit alternative, it was not. I have never been a Twitter user. I did create a Twitter account at some point, I only ever used it to post images from when I was at occupy Wall Street, and then later to follow a couple accounts for updates (Sean Murray of Hello Games). When I opened my own business I created a Twitter account for that specifically and used it to send out coupon codes and stuff like that.
Once musk bought Twitter I deleted both of my accounts. I had totally forgotten about mastodon, so I got on the list for a Bluesky code. Around the time I got my Bluesky code I heard about Lemmy, and then heard about mastodon again. Had my Bluesky code not arrived when it did, I would have created a mastodon account for my business instead of Bluesky. Since I never use either it is a moot point for me.
As depressing as it sounds, most Twitter users actually like Twitter. They're fully okay with all of its dystopian features (some even idolize pre-Musk Twitter). Mastodon is a break from Twitter in many ways, whereas bluesky is just another Twitter in their eyes (many of them probably dgaf about federation and ignore it).
Twitter and YouTube are the least toxic social media platforms I use. I know toxicity exists on both but it is not being served to me. My feed is what I want to see and only that.
On the other hand, something like Reddit or Lemmy needs a huge amount of curation to keep the feed even half decent.
It’s multiple factors but boils down to them being easier for non-techie people to access. It’s also a culture issue. Bluesky culture is more like Mastodon than not but it is more diverse and shifts younger. Lots of gatekeepers and harassers ruined it for would be mastodon users particularly Black and Brown folk that were harassed out of the space. One of the biggest minority ran instances was shut down due to overwhelming harassment. People also don’t want to be preached to nor want to be told how to use their own damn social account and be told they’re using it wrong. Most people legit just wanted Twitter without Musk.
If Brazilian fediverse is anything like English fediverse, its community was probably tied up in discussions who to deferderate from next and vegan cat food instead of promoting Mastodon.
The largest Brazilian Mastodon instance, Ursalzona proudly displays hammer and sickle in its favicon and a logo of its admin account.
Seeing Ursalzona admin's pinned thread - you nailed it.
Threads has close ties with Instagram
(Threads uses opt-out ActivityPub.)
Edit: It's actually opt-in.
That's not true. I can neither opt my test account in nor out of ActivityPub. It's simply not available to Mastodon.
Yeah, because your instance and almost all instances have decided to straight-up defederate cuz Meta will access the federated info
I just edited my comment to add a link to the guide for opting in.
No, it didn't defederate from Threads.
Meta will access Threads accounts via federation? Um, sure... I mean it's on their platform already...
"Be outside Europe" is hardly a guide to opt in. 🙄 I'm in Europe and my Threads profile just isn't available on ActivityPub. Period.
Ah, that makes sense.
I agree. IMO the thing with everyone defederating from Threads is stupid. I'm expecting both of our replies to receive a bit of downvotes now.
... in certain areas:
There are a lot of people I follow who moved to Mastodon, that now appear to have moved to Bluesky (I'm seeing posts on there from people I know used to post on Mastodon).
I'm not sure why. If I move over it'll be because everybody else is there. At the moment I'm not using it much.
Those people are just crazy.
Fediverse sounds too much like metaverse so people assume it’s crypto bullshit
because mastodon because dismissed twitter users concerns and thoughts the first exodus and bluesky implemented them in a way that's closer to twitter.
… what
People dumb.
"Everyone"? I know exactly zero people that have admitted to having a Bluesky account, but I know plenty that have an Mastodon etc. one.
I think this is at most a very regional or specific user bubble thing, and official user numbers for these commercial services are never trustworthy.
People love corporations