Who's winning POTUS? Will it be called on election night or drawn out? Congress? Etc
Whoever wins .... the country will fight about the result for the next four years and completely obscure any reasonable debate or conversation about anything of importance like inflation, wealth inequality, war, the military industrial complex or creeping fascism.
If America doesn't get its act together during this election ... it's just taking another step towards becoming a failed state and will break apart within the next decade or two. But it won't be a war or anything too dramatic ... it will just look and sound like a never ending slapfest between shouting children and crying babies who threaten each other but never actually do anything except leave the room with all their toys.
Everyone worth less than 8 figures will lose.
Little else will change. Regardless of figurehead.
I'm almost positive Trump wins with how close all the swing states are now and how he's improving in polling (what the actual fuck people?!) the closer we get to the election.
I'm also almost positive we will not know for sure on election night as I absolutely expect R controlled states to drag their feet and declare "irregularities" that they need to investigate if they don't like the way things are going.
I hope it will not be Florida of 2000 election all over again, but in a massive scale.
It's insane, Gore won by several thousand votes, if not tens of thousands.
Yeah but Gores brother wasn't governor of Florida! Who evers brother is governor wins, thems the rules.
Such a weird rule, but can't disagree with the supreme court.
Before all ballots are counted, Trump declares himself a winner and starts sounding the alarm about illegitimate counts. Trump then contests battleground states and has enough alternate electors that the final score gets escalated to the Supreme Court, who grants Trump the win while they “figure it all out”. They declare widespread “issues” with the election and localized protests ensue. Trump declares martial law and tells the police to “be tough”. Several injuries and deaths set more riots and protests. Trump orders the national guard to help with crowd control. An overzealous soldier opens with live fire on the crowd, killing several due to stampedes and general chaos.
Trump blames chaos on Democrats and claims illegal immigrants were behind the violence, begins his mass deportation exercise. Numerous non immigrants are rounded up “as sympathizers” and taken to holding facilities in Texas and several other border states where they are held indefinitely without trial.
Trump creates a tip line to report “illegal aliens” and people start reporting their neighbours and anyone else they find “suspicious”. People are always keeping their eyes out and keeping their lives to themselves out of fear they may be reported.
Trump and his regime create a committee to oversee and overhaul elections “due to all that bad corruption” and suggests a moratorium on elections until “they figure it out”.
They don’t ever figure it out.
So basically "how to speedrun dictatorship"
Very plausible. If you need any recipes for when the California vegetables stops coming HMU, I've made a project out of it.
My prediction is that every other country will watch with a mix of concern and popcorn
As a non-American, this. And I honestly don't understand why so many people in our neck of the woods aren't more concerned about this. You guys are such a heavy hitter from a socio-economical standpoint, that anything which goes down in your country will inevitably affect everyone else.
I have a theory as to why people in my country discuss US politics more than our own. People want to talk about something more 'important' than the latest reality talent show, but don't want to risk talking about local politics. US politics is square in the middle, splashed across our feeds constantly.
I just can't wait until elections continue their downward spiral, and presidential candidates need to sing country songs to Snoop Dog so they don't get voted off the island.
Canadian here. Mostly concern. Anybody here that thinks it's a fun show hasn't thought very far ahead.
We have to laugh at it to stay sane. We have no control over what the Americans do.
Yes, I'm a fan of gallows humour too.
As a Brazilian, this too. Also, some PTSD from remembering recent Brazilian elections (sometimes USA and Brazil are so similar that they seem like brothers separated at birth, your Trump was our Bolsonaro, your Biden is our Lula, I wouldn't be surprised if your Harris is our Dilma without the "stockpiling of wind" thing).
I'm in a swing state with an abortion measure on the ballot, and while all the polls claim it's close, I'm not really sure they are properly accounting for the number of voters that have been activated by the possibility of enshrining pro-choice into the state constitution.
These polling strategies are complex and a lot of thought goes into them, but they rarely can account for uncommon circumstances that increase voter turnout in local or state elections and how that will effect the national election.
While this is entirely personal reexperience bias, I also wonder how effective these polls are at reaching a representative survey group. I know at least on my phone basically all survey calls and texts go to spam and I wonder if older, more conservative voters are getting overrepresented due to their likelihood of not having those kinds of spam filters in place.
2016 2: electric boogaloo. Harris loses PA and MI due to campaigning on continued genocide, leaving her with a popular vote victory but electoral college loss.
That's what I'd bet on if I were a betting man.
Civil war, because Trump won’t accept the result and Musk will be fueling the hate.
The material conditions aren't ripe for a civil war just yet, nor for a revolution. Things have not gotten dire for the US Empire abroad just yet.
I don't know, somebody would have to start shooting back. The only real candidate is the existing military, and I'm not sure they or the Democrats are up for it.
It's gonna be a shitshow.
The 1% will benefit.
It's going to be a shit show.
Harris wins comfortably.
Lots of lawsuits.
Even more violence.
Impossible to say but Harris is winning the popular vote for sure. I think however it goes there's going to be some chaos and violence, I wouldn't be surprised if there's blatant attempts by MAGA cultists to sabotage what they can and drag out the vote counting and electoral processes. Its probably going to be a shitshow, and possibly a horrorshow. I don't expect it to be called on election night unless its a significant and obvious win, which currently seems very unlikely. I would be less surprised if there was a terrorist attack on election night than a clear and obvious conclusion to the election.
Congress I think Dems are likely to outperform, the RNC is no longer what it was and doesn't have the ground game they used to. All their money and resources have been sucked into the black hole of Trumps campaign.
2016 election night again. Kamala has more votes, loses electoral college
The current betting odds aggregations have trump at 58%, harris at 41%
Well that's disheartening. Can't believe that many people prefer a racist con man to a competent woman.
Betting markets don't really have any predictive value. It's all vibes.
I wouldn't rely on them for predictions, but I do think they can be a reasonable proxy for people's beliefs and/or assumptions. And I would say they at least loosely track the truth..
NBA betting is not perfectly predictive, but there's a reason the Celtics are at the top and the Pistons are at the bottom.
This page has some background, but historically they've always beat polling and any other prediction algorithms as long as they've been around.
A 34 time convicted felon child rapist pussy grabber racist con man
You could keep adding to that.
People are big mad and think electing a brain-damaged version of Mussolini makes some kind of point.
Wikipedia lists Real Clear Politics as having become more conservative and right leaning in recent years. Their polls may not be as accurate.
That's not a poll. It's an aggregate / average of betting markets.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I feel like gamblers have a heavy right lean.
Gamblers, polls, and the NYT's most sophisticated prediction algorithms all got it very wrong in 2016, and severely overestimating hillary and underestimating trump. But of those three, the prediction markets were the least wrong.
Right now I think Harris is more likely to win than Trump, but it would also not be an enormous surprise if Trump wins.
Violence.
I mean, we're already a capitol storming and a few assassination attempts in. You need to be a bit more specific.
Kamala will probably win the popular vote, but Trump will take the presidency either through a technical, electoral college win, or a supreme court decision.
If Kamala somehow wins the popular vote and the electoral college, expect more violence. Probably large scale organized violence like we saw in 2021, but also increases in mass shootings and hate crimes. Unless she wins by a landslide (which is very unlikely) the supreme court will likely be involved and the process will drag on into at least January, if not longer. The court will probably find or invent a legal position that gives Trump the presidency anyway.
No matter who is president, Americans living in red states are fucked and any Palestinians living in Gaza are probably going to be killed.
A Trump presidency would be bad for every American and every person living where the US has influence. If the Republicans also take control of congress when they elect Trump, it's probable that would be the end of the United States as we know it. Trump dismantled a lot of important parts of the administrative state that keeps the gears of government turning during his first presidency. A second round in office, with the other two branches in his pocket, would give him the chance to completely gut the institutions of the united states until the presidency controls everything at the national level.
We would probably see a national abortion ban, a ban on transgender care for adults and minors, the gutting of civil rights protections, most government services privatized, the destruction of countless government agencies and a purge of anyone who might object to any of that.
A Harris presidency would stall some of the efforts of the fascist takeover of the United States but not even a majority of those efforts. Republican controlled states would go into overdrive with their destabilizing agendas. Life will become a lot worse for anyone who isn't a cishet white man living but has the misfortune of living in Maga country.
The good news is regardless of the outcome Trump won't be involved in the 2028 presidential election, if we have one. He's old enough and senile enough that he won't be in any shape to govern by then so at least we get some new horrors to look forward to.
My rational side wants to see Harris win, but the anarchist in me wants to see Trump win, just to see what would happen. Not living in the US, obviously.
Trump winning could be a disaster for the whole world since US is such a major player in basically everything, but my anarchist side does not listen.
You're a piss poor anarchist if you want the the orange fascist to win
What does Trump winning have to do with Anarchy?
Same story we saw in 2016, Trump has no policy other than destroying American institutions and the status quo, so people get this sort of collapse fetish and pick him for that reason alone.
They mean in the "chaos" sense, not the Lemmy-friendly sense.
On the other hand, a severe degradation of federal institutions would by necessity promote community-based cooperation. Like in any other disaster, natural or otherwise.
Nobody wants to see it happen this way, but it might be the catalyst we get.
Anarchism is not chaos, which is what it seems like you think it means. Anarchism is the opposition to hierarchy and is thus directly opposed to fascism and therefore Trump. No anarchist wants to see Trump win because it means fascism has won.
Yep. Too many people think anarchy is throwing bricks at windows. It just means opposing hierarchy. Hoping a fascist wins is the literal opposite of that
Would U.S.A. foreign policy be drastically affected by who becomes the president?
As a non-American, I think it'd have more impact on the people of the U.S.A and maybe immediate neighbours like Mexico.
I don’t know, to quote someone I read here:
“The world shits when the US farts”
US electing an authoritarian might encourage authoritarians all around the world (even more)
US electing an authoritarian might encourage authoritarians all around the world (even more)
That maybe a consequence but US foreign policy might improve or remain unchanged under Trump.
Haha, u kidding?
They will improve with authoritarians, where Trump can personally benefit from.
For everyone else it will worsen and set global policies back by at least one decade.
Improve in the sense it will stop butting it's nose everywhere.
foreign policy might improve under Trump
Let’s see, Israel kills all Palestinians, Russia takes over Ukraine, then North Korea and China initiate actions against South Korea and Taiwan. You have an unusual definition of improve.
Israel will kill Palestinians no matter who comes to power in US. Maybe if Israel doesnt pay him personally anything he might reduce their supplies. If they pay him as they pay all the other politicians it will be business as usual.
At least there would be a chance that spineless and derelict UN will fall.
Trump said he will let Israel “finish the job”. STFU.
I agree Biden now n Harris if she comes next won't overtly support Israel like Trump. They will just send them arms n ammunition as usual while giving soundbites against them.
They’ll both be disasters for the USA.
Trump will be a disaster because millions of Americans who are currently on the brink of poverty will sink into poverty under his policies, amplifying all kinds of social problems and civil unrest.
Harris will be a disaster because she will escalate unpopular military conflicts, overextending the military, further lessening the prestige of the US, and encouraging countries to de-dollarize.
The next four years are going to be rough. There’s no avoiding it.
Jill Stein comes from behind to take the surprise win. Dems and Republicans both claim it's stolen.
Thin narrow margin for Harris, several swing states are a new Florida of leaning and ballot counting taking forever. Then right wingers get upset, try to sue as they also then shoot local people for not sieg heiling Trump.
Harris enters office in Jan, makes some statements of how this is horrid, says she'll do something to help it, but won't solve the issues that make people consider being fascists who shoot mosques.
From there we'll see the first 100 days of her term, and if the Senate and House are in favor, we might get some good bills in for a short term solutions to the long term diseases of American necrotic brain damage of conservatism.
For most people, nothing changes. Anti-trans bills are still in place, putting abortion back will be near impossible, and police will still shoot first ask questions second. Maybe some debts are cleared, weed is maybe legalized finally, but the county is the same as it was under Biden.
No matter who "wins election" Americans will lose
I've got a feeling we'll see Bush v. Gore style recount shenanigans or worse. Trumpist "stop the steal" people have begun to infiltrate the election process, right?
Right, and it's possible that what's really happened outdistances what's publicly known.
I still like to believe that our systems are resilient against such shenanigans, that Georgia Court just threw out some sketchy b******* that Trump affiliated election officials were trying to pull. Literally every Trump court case fell on its face last time around.
But I'm a lot more worried now. When the history of this election's written, something we never thought of is going to turn out to be one of the most important events in history.
I'm not saying this will literally happen, but this is kind of what I think: some random election clerk in North Carolina is allowed to trigger a freeze on the counting of votes based on their 'reasonable suspicion', and after recounts and delays, it starts trending Kamala's way, so they never complete the account. The Supreme Court invents some new legal doctrine that says we can't allow the paralysis of one state to prevent the determination of a winner, the court throws it to the House of Representatives, the house holds the vote open for 16 hours until Trump wins, with God knows what violence and rallies and stuff happening outside.
Harris by a landslide. I'm optimistic and am choosing to have faith in at least some of mankind.
Trump is power hungry while simultaneously old and simple minded. I remember Jan 6. I followed live feeds throughout and immediately after. I watched Trump's speech, the riot it caused. I watched Ashli Babbitt die on some guy's go pro.
I keep asking myself how in the hell Trump is even still in the running. What the fuck is wrong with his supporters?
Please get out and vote Harris! Harris is the way forward. She's not Trump but also SHE IS NOT BIDEN. We need women in power. Look what men have done . She happens to be a good one, of course a politician, but she's won my confidence. Over Trump it was an easy win.
I think she will win but I don't think it will be a landslide. I hope so, but there's a lot of stupid Americans that buy into Trump's crap.
a lot of stupid Americans that buy into Trump’s crap.
True. Unarguably.
Counterpoint though: There are a bunch of Americans that do not. I know many. I know Republicans that are voting Harris.
Global thermonuclear war.
Would you like to play a game?
Love a War Games reference.
Don't make me hope.
Trump seems to always exceed expectations, so I fear he will almost certainly win unless a health condition forces him out of the race.
However, I have consistently under estimated Harris, so maybe I'll be wrong yet again and she will be the one to overperform...
Trump outperformed polling in both of the last elections, and the polls are much closer now, so if he even just outperforms the same amount as before he wins.
I think the polls have tried to correct for this, and I also believe Kamala has huge and sophisticated ground game operation aimed at turnout while Trump's team seems completely disorganized. So I wonder if that advantage in operational sophistication counts for anything.
I think we'll have a Dem trifecta after election night. I feel the even the nonpartisan polls have overcorrected in favor of Republicans after 2016, and since the overturning of Roe, polls have been underestimating Dem candidates.
According to some of the information in here they seem to be claiming we're still overestimating Dem performance in presidential elections, but that midterm elections where Trump isn't on the ballot thing are more accurate. :(
It's certainly possible. The polls are showing it's effectively a tossup. But my real theory is that things are fundamentally different after the death of Roe, and that the pollsters really don't have a way to capture that. Yes, it is a harsh year for the Senate, but there are some dark horse races, namely Texas and Nebraska, that may really surprise us.
I've been reading some discussions this week about fake polls claiming Republicans are winning to make Dems think there's no point in voting. Apparently it was a technique used in a previous recent election? It would explain all the results I've seen in the last few days showing them with a strong lead, where a week or two ago other polls showed an even race. Doesn't really matter though, everyone should remember that the only thing that counts is getting out and casting your vote no matter what the polls might suggest.
There have been a lot of Republican polls posted, part of their "flood the zone" strategy. But I think even the nonpartisan polls are underestimating Dem support a bit.
One can hope, but I suspect nobody will be announcing a victor on Tuesday night.
I'm off that week so I predict I'll be pretty drunk regardless of the result
Whoever wins...
We lose.
The one comment that unites both liberals and conservatives in their hatred of the left.
Both of you can GTFO with your negativity, imo.
This is like two stumbling drunk parents arguing over who's better to drive everyone home and telling the kids "shut up you're not helping!" when they suggest taking a cab.
We won't have a clear winner. No matter which candidate "wins", there will be widespread allegations of voter fraud. There will be protests. Biden will declare a national emergency. What happens after that? I don't know. But I am prepared for major social unrest.
A large number of people from both major parties are absolutely unwilling to accept a win by the opposing candidate. I've never seen the country so divided.
I hope you are right about the left not accepting a Trump win. I don’t even know why he’s a legitimate candidate with the whole insurrection thing. Openly gaming the election? Felonies? I don’t think the US can survive four more years of this guy, so I think the time for passively accepting his shenanigans is over.
It's a toss up and I have no special crystal ball, but if I had to do arbitrage on it I think the risk of a 2000-style tie is even higher than projected (already 10% per Nate Silver), just based on the vibes I'm hearing.
Without question Trump is winning. It feels like it should defy logic, but it actually matches with the current mood in the nation, and the state of the 'culture war'.
MAGA throws a giant hissy fit, tries about three more coups, goes around intimidating election officials and offices to states that validated the election. Going to spend another 3 years arresting and jailing even more of these idiots until we have an even more prison population problem.
Trump declares once again that he didn't lose, despite all the lies saying he'll admit that he lost if it was fair.
Someone attempts to assassinate Harris during Inauguration. Someone attempts to assassinate Biden because they believe that if he doesn't pass the torch to Harris, then it'll prevent a Harris presidency.
Harris will presumably do a good job but like with nearly all Democratic presidents since Obama, the best that they're good at in Modern-Day America is just temporary hold-over solutions but nothing groundbreaking that'll last long-term.
Harris will probably be fighting with windbags leftover from GOP in Senate, House, Congress and Supreme Court because that's how they've been. No different than Obama's terms and Biden's term.
And then we'll spend 4 years basically just building up until the next shitty election.
We will either get Fascism or Fascism Lite™
If Trump wins then all the people who are not wealthy white males will get exactly what they deserve.
Whoever wins .... the country will fight about the result for the next four years and completely obscure any reasonable debate or conversation about anything of importance like inflation, wealth inequality, war, the military industrial complex or creeping fascism.
If America doesn't get its act together during this election ... it's just taking another step towards becoming a failed state and will break apart within the next decade or two. But it won't be a war or anything too dramatic ... it will just look and sound like a never ending slapfest between shouting children and crying babies who threaten each other but never actually do anything except leave the room with all their toys.
Everyone worth less than 8 figures will lose.
Little else will change. Regardless of figurehead.
I'm almost positive Trump wins with how close all the swing states are now and how he's improving in polling (what the actual fuck people?!) the closer we get to the election.
I'm also almost positive we will not know for sure on election night as I absolutely expect R controlled states to drag their feet and declare "irregularities" that they need to investigate if they don't like the way things are going.
I hope it will not be Florida of 2000 election all over again, but in a massive scale.
It's insane, Gore won by several thousand votes, if not tens of thousands.
Yeah but Gores brother wasn't governor of Florida! Who evers brother is governor wins, thems the rules.
Such a weird rule, but can't disagree with the supreme court.
Before all ballots are counted, Trump declares himself a winner and starts sounding the alarm about illegitimate counts. Trump then contests battleground states and has enough alternate electors that the final score gets escalated to the Supreme Court, who grants Trump the win while they “figure it all out”. They declare widespread “issues” with the election and localized protests ensue. Trump declares martial law and tells the police to “be tough”. Several injuries and deaths set more riots and protests. Trump orders the national guard to help with crowd control. An overzealous soldier opens with live fire on the crowd, killing several due to stampedes and general chaos.
Trump blames chaos on Democrats and claims illegal immigrants were behind the violence, begins his mass deportation exercise. Numerous non immigrants are rounded up “as sympathizers” and taken to holding facilities in Texas and several other border states where they are held indefinitely without trial.
Trump creates a tip line to report “illegal aliens” and people start reporting their neighbours and anyone else they find “suspicious”. People are always keeping their eyes out and keeping their lives to themselves out of fear they may be reported.
Trump and his regime create a committee to oversee and overhaul elections “due to all that bad corruption” and suggests a moratorium on elections until “they figure it out”.
They don’t ever figure it out.
So basically "how to speedrun dictatorship"
Very plausible. If you need any recipes for when the California vegetables stops coming HMU, I've made a project out of it.
My prediction is that every other country will watch with a mix of concern and popcorn
As a non-American, this. And I honestly don't understand why so many people in our neck of the woods aren't more concerned about this. You guys are such a heavy hitter from a socio-economical standpoint, that anything which goes down in your country will inevitably affect everyone else.
I have a theory as to why people in my country discuss US politics more than our own. People want to talk about something more 'important' than the latest reality talent show, but don't want to risk talking about local politics. US politics is square in the middle, splashed across our feeds constantly.
I just can't wait until elections continue their downward spiral, and presidential candidates need to sing country songs to Snoop Dog so they don't get voted off the island.
Canadian here. Mostly concern. Anybody here that thinks it's a fun show hasn't thought very far ahead.
We have to laugh at it to stay sane. We have no control over what the Americans do.
Yes, I'm a fan of gallows humour too.
As a Brazilian, this too. Also, some PTSD from remembering recent Brazilian elections (sometimes USA and Brazil are so similar that they seem like brothers separated at birth, your Trump was our Bolsonaro, your Biden is our Lula, I wouldn't be surprised if your Harris is our Dilma without the "stockpiling of wind" thing).
I'm in a swing state with an abortion measure on the ballot, and while all the polls claim it's close, I'm not really sure they are properly accounting for the number of voters that have been activated by the possibility of enshrining pro-choice into the state constitution.
These polling strategies are complex and a lot of thought goes into them, but they rarely can account for uncommon circumstances that increase voter turnout in local or state elections and how that will effect the national election.
While this is entirely personal reexperience bias, I also wonder how effective these polls are at reaching a representative survey group. I know at least on my phone basically all survey calls and texts go to spam and I wonder if older, more conservative voters are getting overrepresented due to their likelihood of not having those kinds of spam filters in place.
2016 2: electric boogaloo. Harris loses PA and MI due to campaigning on continued genocide, leaving her with a popular vote victory but electoral college loss.
That's what I'd bet on if I were a betting man.
Civil war, because Trump won’t accept the result and Musk will be fueling the hate.
The material conditions aren't ripe for a civil war just yet, nor for a revolution. Things have not gotten dire for the US Empire abroad just yet.
I don't know, somebody would have to start shooting back. The only real candidate is the existing military, and I'm not sure they or the Democrats are up for it.
It's gonna be a shitshow.
The 1% will benefit.
It's going to be a shit show.
Harris wins comfortably. Lots of lawsuits. Even more violence.
Impossible to say but Harris is winning the popular vote for sure. I think however it goes there's going to be some chaos and violence, I wouldn't be surprised if there's blatant attempts by MAGA cultists to sabotage what they can and drag out the vote counting and electoral processes. Its probably going to be a shitshow, and possibly a horrorshow. I don't expect it to be called on election night unless its a significant and obvious win, which currently seems very unlikely. I would be less surprised if there was a terrorist attack on election night than a clear and obvious conclusion to the election.
Congress I think Dems are likely to outperform, the RNC is no longer what it was and doesn't have the ground game they used to. All their money and resources have been sucked into the black hole of Trumps campaign.
2016 election night again. Kamala has more votes, loses electoral college
The current betting odds aggregations have trump at 58%, harris at 41%
https://www.realclearpolling.com/betting-odds/2024/president
Well that's disheartening. Can't believe that many people prefer a racist con man to a competent woman.
Betting markets don't really have any predictive value. It's all vibes.
I wouldn't rely on them for predictions, but I do think they can be a reasonable proxy for people's beliefs and/or assumptions. And I would say they at least loosely track the truth..
NBA betting is not perfectly predictive, but there's a reason the Celtics are at the top and the Pistons are at the bottom.
This page has some background, but historically they've always beat polling and any other prediction algorithms as long as they've been around.
A 34 time convicted felon child rapist pussy grabber racist con man
You could keep adding to that.
People are big mad and think electing a brain-damaged version of Mussolini makes some kind of point.
Wikipedia lists Real Clear Politics as having become more conservative and right leaning in recent years. Their polls may not be as accurate.
That's not a poll. It's an aggregate / average of betting markets.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I feel like gamblers have a heavy right lean.
Edit - Oops: https://midwest.social/post/18205923?scrollToComments=true
You're not wrong, it's because leftists are generally more critical of gambling.
Gamblers don't always get it right, but this page has some interesting history: https://electionbettingodds.com/about.html
Gamblers, polls, and the NYT's most sophisticated prediction algorithms all got it very wrong in 2016, and severely overestimating hillary and underestimating trump. But of those three, the prediction markets were the least wrong.
Right now I think Harris is more likely to win than Trump, but it would also not be an enormous surprise if Trump wins.
Violence.
I mean, we're already a capitol storming and a few assassination attempts in. You need to be a bit more specific.
Kamala will probably win the popular vote, but Trump will take the presidency either through a technical, electoral college win, or a supreme court decision.
If Kamala somehow wins the popular vote and the electoral college, expect more violence. Probably large scale organized violence like we saw in 2021, but also increases in mass shootings and hate crimes. Unless she wins by a landslide (which is very unlikely) the supreme court will likely be involved and the process will drag on into at least January, if not longer. The court will probably find or invent a legal position that gives Trump the presidency anyway.
No matter who is president, Americans living in red states are fucked and any Palestinians living in Gaza are probably going to be killed.
A Trump presidency would be bad for every American and every person living where the US has influence. If the Republicans also take control of congress when they elect Trump, it's probable that would be the end of the United States as we know it. Trump dismantled a lot of important parts of the administrative state that keeps the gears of government turning during his first presidency. A second round in office, with the other two branches in his pocket, would give him the chance to completely gut the institutions of the united states until the presidency controls everything at the national level.
We would probably see a national abortion ban, a ban on transgender care for adults and minors, the gutting of civil rights protections, most government services privatized, the destruction of countless government agencies and a purge of anyone who might object to any of that.
A Harris presidency would stall some of the efforts of the fascist takeover of the United States but not even a majority of those efforts. Republican controlled states would go into overdrive with their destabilizing agendas. Life will become a lot worse for anyone who isn't a cishet white man living but has the misfortune of living in Maga country.
The good news is regardless of the outcome Trump won't be involved in the 2028 presidential election, if we have one. He's old enough and senile enough that he won't be in any shape to govern by then so at least we get some new horrors to look forward to.
My rational side wants to see Harris win, but the anarchist in me wants to see Trump win, just to see what would happen. Not living in the US, obviously.
Trump winning could be a disaster for the whole world since US is such a major player in basically everything, but my anarchist side does not listen.
You're a piss poor anarchist if you want the the orange fascist to win
What does Trump winning have to do with Anarchy?
Same story we saw in 2016, Trump has no policy other than destroying American institutions and the status quo, so people get this sort of collapse fetish and pick him for that reason alone.
They mean in the "chaos" sense, not the Lemmy-friendly sense.
On the other hand, a severe degradation of federal institutions would by necessity promote community-based cooperation. Like in any other disaster, natural or otherwise.
Nobody wants to see it happen this way, but it might be the catalyst we get.
Anarchism is not chaos, which is what it seems like you think it means. Anarchism is the opposition to hierarchy and is thus directly opposed to fascism and therefore Trump. No anarchist wants to see Trump win because it means fascism has won.
Yep. Too many people think anarchy is throwing bricks at windows. It just means opposing hierarchy. Hoping a fascist wins is the literal opposite of that
Would U.S.A. foreign policy be drastically affected by who becomes the president?
As a non-American, I think it'd have more impact on the people of the U.S.A and maybe immediate neighbours like Mexico.
I don’t know, to quote someone I read here: “The world shits when the US farts”
US electing an authoritarian might encourage authoritarians all around the world (even more)
That maybe a consequence but US foreign policy might improve or remain unchanged under Trump.
Haha, u kidding?
They will improve with authoritarians, where Trump can personally benefit from.
For everyone else it will worsen and set global policies back by at least one decade.
Improve in the sense it will stop butting it's nose everywhere.
Let’s see, Israel kills all Palestinians, Russia takes over Ukraine, then North Korea and China initiate actions against South Korea and Taiwan. You have an unusual definition of improve.
Israel will kill Palestinians no matter who comes to power in US. Maybe if Israel doesnt pay him personally anything he might reduce their supplies. If they pay him as they pay all the other politicians it will be business as usual.
At least there would be a chance that spineless and derelict UN will fall.
Trump said he will let Israel “finish the job”. STFU.
I agree Biden now n Harris if she comes next won't overtly support Israel like Trump. They will just send them arms n ammunition as usual while giving soundbites against them.
They’ll both be disasters for the USA.
Trump will be a disaster because millions of Americans who are currently on the brink of poverty will sink into poverty under his policies, amplifying all kinds of social problems and civil unrest.
Harris will be a disaster because she will escalate unpopular military conflicts, overextending the military, further lessening the prestige of the US, and encouraging countries to de-dollarize.
The next four years are going to be rough. There’s no avoiding it.
Jill Stein comes from behind to take the surprise win. Dems and Republicans both claim it's stolen.
Thin narrow margin for Harris, several swing states are a new Florida of leaning and ballot counting taking forever. Then right wingers get upset, try to sue as they also then shoot local people for not sieg heiling Trump.
Harris enters office in Jan, makes some statements of how this is horrid, says she'll do something to help it, but won't solve the issues that make people consider being fascists who shoot mosques.
From there we'll see the first 100 days of her term, and if the Senate and House are in favor, we might get some good bills in for a short term solutions to the long term diseases of American necrotic brain damage of conservatism.
For most people, nothing changes. Anti-trans bills are still in place, putting abortion back will be near impossible, and police will still shoot first ask questions second. Maybe some debts are cleared, weed is maybe legalized finally, but the county is the same as it was under Biden.
No matter who "wins election" Americans will lose
I've got a feeling we'll see Bush v. Gore style recount shenanigans or worse. Trumpist "stop the steal" people have begun to infiltrate the election process, right?
Right, and it's possible that what's really happened outdistances what's publicly known.
I still like to believe that our systems are resilient against such shenanigans, that Georgia Court just threw out some sketchy b******* that Trump affiliated election officials were trying to pull. Literally every Trump court case fell on its face last time around.
But I'm a lot more worried now. When the history of this election's written, something we never thought of is going to turn out to be one of the most important events in history.
I'm not saying this will literally happen, but this is kind of what I think: some random election clerk in North Carolina is allowed to trigger a freeze on the counting of votes based on their 'reasonable suspicion', and after recounts and delays, it starts trending Kamala's way, so they never complete the account. The Supreme Court invents some new legal doctrine that says we can't allow the paralysis of one state to prevent the determination of a winner, the court throws it to the House of Representatives, the house holds the vote open for 16 hours until Trump wins, with God knows what violence and rallies and stuff happening outside.
Harris by a landslide. I'm optimistic and am choosing to have faith in at least some of mankind.
Trump is power hungry while simultaneously old and simple minded. I remember Jan 6. I followed live feeds throughout and immediately after. I watched Trump's speech, the riot it caused. I watched Ashli Babbitt die on some guy's go pro.
I keep asking myself how in the hell Trump is even still in the running. What the fuck is wrong with his supporters?
Please get out and vote Harris! Harris is the way forward. She's not Trump but also SHE IS NOT BIDEN. We need women in power. Look what men have done . She happens to be a good one, of course a politician, but she's won my confidence. Over Trump it was an easy win.
I think she will win but I don't think it will be a landslide. I hope so, but there's a lot of stupid Americans that buy into Trump's crap.
True. Unarguably.
Counterpoint though: There are a bunch of Americans that do not. I know many. I know Republicans that are voting Harris.
Global thermonuclear war.
Would you like to play a game?
Love a War Games reference.
Don't make me hope.
Trump seems to always exceed expectations, so I fear he will almost certainly win unless a health condition forces him out of the race.
However, I have consistently under estimated Harris, so maybe I'll be wrong yet again and she will be the one to overperform...
Trump outperformed polling in both of the last elections, and the polls are much closer now, so if he even just outperforms the same amount as before he wins.
I think the polls have tried to correct for this, and I also believe Kamala has huge and sophisticated ground game operation aimed at turnout while Trump's team seems completely disorganized. So I wonder if that advantage in operational sophistication counts for anything.
I think we'll have a Dem trifecta after election night. I feel the even the nonpartisan polls have overcorrected in favor of Republicans after 2016, and since the overturning of Roe, polls have been underestimating Dem candidates.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/08/28/key-things-to-know-about-us-election-polling-in-2024/
According to some of the information in here they seem to be claiming we're still overestimating Dem performance in presidential elections, but that midterm elections where Trump isn't on the ballot thing are more accurate. :(
It's certainly possible. The polls are showing it's effectively a tossup. But my real theory is that things are fundamentally different after the death of Roe, and that the pollsters really don't have a way to capture that. Yes, it is a harsh year for the Senate, but there are some dark horse races, namely Texas and Nebraska, that may really surprise us.
I've been reading some discussions this week about fake polls claiming Republicans are winning to make Dems think there's no point in voting. Apparently it was a technique used in a previous recent election? It would explain all the results I've seen in the last few days showing them with a strong lead, where a week or two ago other polls showed an even race. Doesn't really matter though, everyone should remember that the only thing that counts is getting out and casting your vote no matter what the polls might suggest.
There have been a lot of Republican polls posted, part of their "flood the zone" strategy. But I think even the nonpartisan polls are underestimating Dem support a bit.
One can hope, but I suspect nobody will be announcing a victor on Tuesday night.
I'm off that week so I predict I'll be pretty drunk regardless of the result
Whoever wins...
We lose.
The one comment that unites both liberals and conservatives in their hatred of the left.
Both of you can GTFO with your negativity, imo.
This is like two stumbling drunk parents arguing over who's better to drive everyone home and telling the kids "shut up you're not helping!" when they suggest taking a cab.
We won't have a clear winner. No matter which candidate "wins", there will be widespread allegations of voter fraud. There will be protests. Biden will declare a national emergency. What happens after that? I don't know. But I am prepared for major social unrest.
A large number of people from both major parties are absolutely unwilling to accept a win by the opposing candidate. I've never seen the country so divided.
I hope you are right about the left not accepting a Trump win. I don’t even know why he’s a legitimate candidate with the whole insurrection thing. Openly gaming the election? Felonies? I don’t think the US can survive four more years of this guy, so I think the time for passively accepting his shenanigans is over.
It's a toss up and I have no special crystal ball, but if I had to do arbitrage on it I think the risk of a 2000-style tie is even higher than projected (already 10% per Nate Silver), just based on the vibes I'm hearing.
Without question Trump is winning. It feels like it should defy logic, but it actually matches with the current mood in the nation, and the state of the 'culture war'.
57% chance of Trump. If I thought the odds were otherwise, I would bet otherwise: https://www.electionbettingodds.com/President2024_week.html
Harris Wins.
MAGA throws a giant hissy fit, tries about three more coups, goes around intimidating election officials and offices to states that validated the election. Going to spend another 3 years arresting and jailing even more of these idiots until we have an even more prison population problem.
Trump declares once again that he didn't lose, despite all the lies saying he'll admit that he lost if it was fair.
Someone attempts to assassinate Harris during Inauguration. Someone attempts to assassinate Biden because they believe that if he doesn't pass the torch to Harris, then it'll prevent a Harris presidency.
Harris will presumably do a good job but like with nearly all Democratic presidents since Obama, the best that they're good at in Modern-Day America is just temporary hold-over solutions but nothing groundbreaking that'll last long-term.
Harris will probably be fighting with windbags leftover from GOP in Senate, House, Congress and Supreme Court because that's how they've been. No different than Obama's terms and Biden's term.
And then we'll spend 4 years basically just building up until the next shitty election.
We will either get Fascism or Fascism Lite™
If Trump wins then all the people who are not wealthy white males will get exactly what they deserve.
Ez Harris W