It's actually normal.
Your nostrils cycle between like this so that the one can take a break from the air flow and mitigate drying out.
Not only does it help from drying out, but it helps with smell too; some things are better detected with a slower airflow
Yep, there's a reason our noses didn't simply evolve into a singular hole in the middle of our faces
Two nostrils allows for stereo smells. If we only had one nostril, we would only be able to smell in mono.
wake me when surround-smell drops
I was going to say because it would be fucking weird if we just had one big nose hole. Now I'm thinking about it, our nostrils are already pretty weird.
I'm now looking in the mirror at my nostrils and pumping them to the beat of a song.
Thinking about your body for too long: It's like semantic satiation but for physiology.
Also just to add to the torture of these conversations .... the inside of your lungs also have a certain 'scent' or 'aroma' to it. It's very subtle and wouldn't be noticeable to anyone else except for yourself because the exhaled air is coming straight out of your lungs and right past your nostrils and all its receptors. Your receptors can sense it but your brain automatically ignores it and you never notice.
The same goes for your vision ... you have a natural blind spot in the center of your vision ... the edges are not crisp and clean, you can only focus on about 10 percent of what you actually see in front of you, the rest is just blurry ... your brain just automatically processes your entire vision and autogenerates a perceived image that makes us believe that we have crystal clear vision through our entire field of view.
Same goes with hearing ... just about every person has a tiny bit of tinnitus, ringing of the ears but your brain just automatically processes it all out to make you think that you have crystal clear hearing.
When you think about it ... all our senses are pretty imperfect and there is a lot of interference and nonsense data that our brain processes out to make us believe that we have perfect or near perfect vision, hearing and sense of smell.
you can only focus on about 10 percent of what you actually see in front of you,
I read about this when I was in high school and it freaked me out because I convinced myself that there were Cthulhu-like eldritch abominations inhabiting the spaces I could not see RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME and I couldn't concentrate on school for the rest of the day.
You should read Blindsight by Peter Watts.
Or maybe not idk haha
You should read Blindsight by Peter Watts.
Yeah, when I read that book I was like: this reminds me of that time I freaked out in high school!
I admire the fact that the author put it online for free, and it's a pretty good book, but it could have been better... Watts could have taken all those ideas about consciousness and humanity and produced something like 1984 or Catch-22 that embodies ideas that might otherwise get lost in abstractions. Unfortunately the ideas all get a little muddled.
Yeah for sure! On the other hand it being such a dense, philosophical book means it really stands up to and benefits from a re-read! And the audiobook has a great narrator IMO.
Well, this conversation inspired me to finally read The Colonel, which reminded me of how great some of Watts' ideas could be. Guess I'll have to get a copy of Echopaxia next.
Oh damn I didn't know about that! I'll be reading that this week, thanks for the link!
Echopaxia was definitely different, I wasn't crazy about it my first read through but it had me shook pretty good my second read through. I highly recommend it!
I think if you've already read Echopraxia then The Colonel won't tell you much new, it's more like a transition between the two novels.
Yes, and most importantly I would say :
immune system's way of cleaning each side...
The clogging is caused by the swelling (with the blood vessels and the action of blood's white cells ... or ... maybe I should read the article again)
If it's normal, why does it bother me so much? The feeling drives me absolutely nuts and I hate it.
Hey that's just part of becoming aware you're a sentient being stuck in a weird meat vessel that's just full of undebugged closed source code blobs.
If you're slightly congested, it sucks more.
If you think about it too much about your breathing, it sucks.
Otherwise it's fine.
aaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
You're welcome.
Of course my breathing is all I can think about now.
Well yea.
There's also a nose in your field of view.
You are now blinking manually
Fuck this one got me for a minute.
Don't forget to swallow your saliva now and then.
You can feel your ears.
Sweaing in the Sennheizers.
But why not both
Then they'd both dry out (or you'd suffocate).
Well that's some peoples goals and its none of my business
Why is your name red
I am the red one destroyer of spam, csam and abusive content.
You can summon me with the flag icon.
For real though, I'm just a random dude lending a hand with moderation on sh.itjust.works where your account is.
Peace
I just wanted to say these comments are off the chain. This is how the internet used to be- just people chatting, making jokes and telling stories.
I didn't know how much I missed it.
Welcome to the Internet without corporate rot
I'm enjoying these brief moments of Lemmy before it becomes mainstream. Who knows maybe it never will which is kinda bad but also kinda good.
It stinks to think that the mainstreaming of this platform that definitely should go mainstream would probably diminish its value for me specifically.
But I guess that’s what communities and even themed instances are for.
Too late
This is called the nasal cycle.
Use Flonase to help (need daily use for >= 4 weeks)
If this doesn't help enough, you should see an ENT.
Fun fact: the turbinates in the nose (which are responsible for the nasal cycle) have erectile tissue in them.
Source: your friendly neighborhood Otolaryngologist
Hi, I'd like to subscribe to Daily Otolaryngologist Facts.
Also fun fact: don't follow medical advice given by strangers on the Internet that claim they are an expert
You can never verify that claim
So, you are saying I should follow medical advice by strangers in the Internet?
Only if they don't claim they're an expert.
Trust me, I'm not an expert
True; I, and I'm sure most other physicians would not provide identifiable data in a public forum. If you are having issues with nasal obstruction, alternating or otherwise., best advice is to follow up with your pcm for treatment, possible referral.
I had a doctor basically remove everything from my nose that could be removed including a bunch of the turbinates. It's great I can actually breathe through it now.
Yeah, inferior turbinate reduction is the next small step for this. Often if it's just alternating nasal obstruction that's good enough. Oftentimes there's another component of nasal valve collapse or septal deviation. Personally, in my population, I end up doing septorhinoplasty (nose job) way more often than other smaller nasal surgery.
You don't want them to actually remove the turbinates, however. We generally just shrink them down -- removing them makes the nasal air less turbulent, and difficult to sense airflow. TL;DR it make look like you can drive a semi truck through the nose, but people will feel like they cannot breathe at all. People have killed themselves over this.
I had this recommended for me, but the risk of empty nose syndrome scared the shit out of me.
It can happen, but the way most ENTs train these days, unlikely. I've seen it twice that I recall off the top of my head, but very rare these days.
Most ENTs, including myself, are overly cautious. You're at a higher risk for symptom recurrence because of under resection.
That being said, I wouldn't let an oral surgeon or general plastic surgeon touch my family member's nose (unless they had a very very good reputation). Nothing wrong with their work, I'm just not sure they had the same training and respect for the nose.
How does that not get your nose tissue addicted to nasal sprays?
This applies to nasal decongestants (NOT nasal steroids). Nasal decongestants (such as oxymetazoline AKA afrin, or phenylephrine based medications) are vasoconstrictors. They work very well and work very quickly as the vasoconstriction (constricting the blood vessels) which shrinks the inferior turbinates (and any other edematous tissue).
The body responds to chronic vasoconstriction by making more blood vessels. When the nasal tissues have more blood vessels (and I presume are more dense with vessels) it's harder for the decongestant to work. This is called rebound congestion --- conversely, the patients in this scenario will feel they need to use more decongestant since it previously worked so well, but it no longer does. This cycle can be challenging to treat.
For this reason most ENTs, including myself, typically recommend against afrin use for more than 3 consecutive days. I've seen who go as long as five, but I'm cautious and would not recommend more than 3 days.
It's a bit funny, because if you come into my clinic and get an endosocpic exam of the nose and/or throat (i.e. probably around 50%, often more, of my patients on any given day), I will spray afrin and lidocaine into the nose before my examination. The other main thing I use it for is nosebleeds. It's okay to use it for 3 days during an acute exacerbation of sinusitis, but I don't really think it's necessary.
Edit: I forgot to mention nasal steroids. As I said, the above response doesn't apply to them. We don't include nasal steroids in this because they have a very slow effect and don't have the effect of rebound congestion. With few exceptions doing 2 sprays each nostril daily for a very long is fine for almost everybody, and usually helpful. When I prescribe them I recommend patients use them for at least 4 weeks. Once in awhile there are patient that I would be more cautious with prescribing nasal steroids, such as those with a septal perforation, or frequent nose bleeds. Usually it's a non issue. Tip: when spraying them don't spray straight back -- use your opposite hand and spray towards the eye (i.e. spray with right hand into left nostril, aiming towards left eye).
Thank you for this great answer, I feel like I just learned a ton :D
I wish it was that easy. Flonase did nothing for me other than cause my nose to bleed. Azelastine helped some though and that makes sense for me, my congestion is likely caused by dust mite allergy.
Affrin is amazing for what it is. A few weeks ago I had a sinus headache so bad I threw up. Affrin cleared it up in 30 seconds, and I was able to maintain it without affrin after that.
Nosebleeds can happen and certainly do for some. Nasal hydration helps (for instance, ayr gel in combination with saline spray or irrigations). Ultimately, a good portion of patients that don't tolerate or fail nasal steroids get surgery.
Azelaetine is fantastic - there's a lot of patients I prescribe it in conjunction with Flonase. Allergic rhinitis or even just excessive secretions is common in patients with inferior turbinate hypertroph/nasal obstruction, and both meds have a function. They sell it as a combination, actually, but often insurance doesn't cover the combo.
If you hold your breath to the point you can't anymore your body will automatically clear your nostrils in an attempt to help you not suffocate to death
I taught this trick to my then 4 year old and he legit almost passed out then came back from the edge with a "mommy I can breef!"
Your comment legit made me laugh 😂
I'm not a regular mom, I'm a kewl mom. Legit I did the same thing when I learned that trick and I was like heyyyy buddy! 👉😎👉
I don't think this is how it works...
It is! It's to prevent situations where your mouth is obstructed and your nose is clogged from killing you. Give it a try
They actually switch every hour or so, so after two hours you should be back where you left off.
I hear you can also "manually" switch them when lying down by switching the side of head you're lying on
Used to always have clogged nostrils when going to bed.
But when I slept at hotels I never had a clogged nose.
Turns out I was just allergic to dust mites.
Bought anti-dustmite sheets / spray and boom, no longer had clogged nostrils in bed.
This is worth a shot. I'll try it
I recommend getting both the anti-dustmite sheets and pillow covers as well as the spray!
A combination of all 3 legit stopped giving me a clogged nose at night immediately.
Edit:
Initial steps I put in the other comment:
My initial steps I took were:
taking bed sheets and pillow covers to the washing machine
applying anti-dustmite cover to mattress
applying anti-dustmite cover to pillows
putting bed sheets and pillow covers over the anti-dustmite covers
spraying the anti-dustmite spray over and letting dry
Hello new paranoia! What can be done with my existing things to get rid of the mites???
Fire.
The solution to everything really
I won't let those big bastards win!
Dust and vacuum, often.
And with a bagged HEPA sealed vacuum.
Vacuum wars YouTube channel does good recommendations at all price points.
I was legit thinking about getting a bagged vacuum but didn't because there's too many options and I got stuck in that analysis paralysis. Thanks for the recommendation, there really is a YouTube channel for everything!
Anti-dustmite spray helps kill a good amount!
I was actually impressed with how fast it worked.
That and getting dust mite sheet covers for both your mattress and pillows is effective and over time will kill them off.
My initial steps I took were:
taking bed sheets and pillow covers to the washing machine
applying anti-dustmite cover to mattress
applying anti-dustmite cover to pillows
putting bed sheets and pillow covers over the anti-dustmite covers
spraying the anti-dustmite spray over and letting dry
Immediately noticed the difference and stopped getting a clogged nose in bed that day
Thanks for the game plan! I'm legit cleaning out the bedrooms this weekend and will give this a try. I had the same experience with hotels but I was like "I guess my nose just, like, really loves that bleach smell." 😆
Where did you get anti dustmite sheets? I looked a few years back and all I could find were $200 medical covers that were basically plastic bags and 1000 different ones on Amazon with 1* durability reviews. I would love to have a "legit" source and maybe some info on expectations.
Hmm I bought these and had no problems at all:
UltraBlock Zippered Mattress Protector (Queen) - Waterproof Cover Stops Dust Mite, Bed Bug, Spills, Bedwetting - Hypoallergenic Encasement with Zipper - White https://a.co/d/594j8Rh
Yep, never thought I had allergies. I was prescribed an antihistamine for a sleep disorder, and noticed this doesn't happen to me when I take antihistamines.
Fuck this post made me remember I was on automatic breathing and switched to manual, fuck
Your comment did that to me.
There's a trick I learned for clearing a stuffy nose.
Place the tip of your tongue on the roof of your mouth. Then, place a finger on the bridge of your nose.
In very small motions, alternate between pushing up on the roof of your mouth, and then releasing that and pushing on the bridge of the nose. Use a gentle teeter-totter to rock the pallette. Repeat ten or so times and, within a few seconds, your nose will be open.
what do you mean with bridge of the nose? the boney part?
Right below the divide between nose and face, so about 3mm or so. In fact, if you press up on the roof of your mouth you'll feel the spot on your nose very slightly rise up.
Essentially you're rocking the soft palette up and down which flexes the sinuses and opens them up.
If you ever get to breathe through both at once: it hurts from the dryness.
This is me when I sleep or lie down but the nostril wall never comes down 😭
You gotta swap out your nostrils for yestrils
A++, would chortle again.
Thank you, you made me smile :-)
This is me when I sleep or lie down but the nostril wall never comes down 😭
Nostrils, when the walls fell.
Vicks, his sinuses OPEN!
No joke my doctor told me I should whash my sinis everyday before bed and told me to buy a specific bottle that makes it easier and safer, I did and OMG, life changing!!
Just don't wash your sinus with regular water please!
Never use tap water it has combined chlorine it (at least where I live it does)
Probably better if you just use Johnny Walker Blue Label
Edit : source of how I know the tap water has combined chlorine.. My brother has the testing equipment because he takes care of a swimming pool.
Is it a netti pot? I’ve seen those but snorting a teapot with water seemed extreme to me but I know nothing about it 🤪
no no, it's like the photo bellow. My doctor recomended because there is a button that allows the water to go on the necessary speed only, that way it doesn't allow water to go to your ears and give you an infection.
Everytime I hear someone mention sinus, I get confused about what that is. Wikipedia says it's airpockets surrounding the nose. I don't feel anything besides fat and bone when I press down around my nose. Are they inside the skull? How do you access them?
Yes they are air pockets inside the skull, that's why when you clean it you can just push water through one nostril and it will come out on the other, because it fills the sinus. Also, sometimes you can feel you teeth too sensitive because you have something on the sinus above them
Like this
Whoa. Sensitive teeth thing was something I felt a few days ago and it was really strange. Like in my top gums. Bodies are wiiiiild
Haha I actually brought this up in my comment to OP, but do you find that you have this clogged nose in hotels or other places?
If not, and you notice it just at home you may be allergic to dust mites.
I bought dust mite bed covers, pillow covers, and spray and applied them after washing my original bed sheets and pillow covers.
Immediately that day I stopped having a clogged nose in bed.
I'd been suffering all my life thinking it was normal to have a clogged nose in bed lol, turns out I had an allergy.
Hmmm. This sounds promising. I notice that when I go on vacation and sleep overnight somewhere I usually don’t have any problems. Figured it was an allergen in the house but wasn’t sure what. I’ll take a further look into this. Thanks :)
🎵Well they blew the horn... 🎵
Meanwhile, both my nostrils are so dry they've got tumbleweeds blowing around in them.
Masturbation will clear you up for a bit.
Interestingly this may work, but I'm not sure anyone has studied it (perhaps I will do a lit search).
There's erectile tissue in the inferior turbinates that is responsible for the nasal cycle.. maybe after an emission it's more flaccid?
Sadly I do not suffer from inferior turbinate hypertroohy/ alternating nasal obstruction to test this on myself.
Edit: This has been studied.... I now have one more option in the "medical management" toolbox
lol yeah, I wasn't shitposting. I read it somewhere a while ago.
The best shitposts are the ones that turn out to be real/useful.
I thought the best shitposts were the friends we made along the way
Yes, those are the best fo sure
I think it has something to do with needing more oxygen, just like doing push-ups will help and so will running around or even just stopping your breathing for ~30 seconds. Your body will eventually go into a higher alert state.
It just helps for a short bit though, when you relax your nasal passage does too and blocks all again.
It would by a sympathetic response from catecholamines -- that's how it constricts; however, I didn't know that it had been studied and was actually effective in real life until today.
It's a normal human phenomenon.
Take it a step further, Advanced yoga practitioners use "alternate nostril breaths" to consciously alter/improve physical & mental state.
Exhale all the way
Hold it for 30 seconds
Breath through your nose
30 seconds of breath holding feels like ages though
It's worse, even, since you have expel as much air from your lungs as you can manage for it to work reliably.
You gotta snort some water up that nose and blow hard. sweet relieve
Won't do much for the natural blocking. Notably is that this blocking is NOT caused by clogging. It's your nose deliberating shutting one hole slightly.
The reason this is because some smells take more exposure to detect while others can be detected immediately. The nose physically constricts airflow to accomplish this uneven speed on both sides.
Is this person not referencing nasal irrigation like from a neti pot? Yes, it's a very poor description if so, but it's close enough lol
My nostril generally gets blocked on the side closest to the person who's spreading all the germs.
But I find you can sort it out if you tilt your head back slightly and point your nose up, then tilt to the side away from the blocked nostril. Once the blood starts to even out you can level out your head with both nostrils fairly clear.
Mine gets like this depending on the amount of dairy I consume. It's can be pretty clear most of the timesbut mmmmhmmm ice cream and cheese...
I would never claim to know what your body does but FYI there is a popular misconception that diary promotes snot. The idea is based on the magical principle that like attracts like, there's no evidence for it.
I thought it was the dairy causes gastric reflux and that acid promotes snot.
That's an interesting read (after Googling) , especially the studies. I would love to be one of those types that says "Fake News" to anything I don't like, but the initial science seems to be there.
says “Fake News” to anything I don’t like,
Sorry if that seemed to be my intention. As I mentioned, all bodies are different and if you say that happens to you I'm perfectly willing to believe it.
However, there is also a common misunderstanding about this which seems relevant to mention.
The no doubt reputable "livelovefruit.com" claims "Milk and Mucus: Why Dairy is The Major Cause of Your Phlegm, Mucus and Congestion Issues" and then spends several paragraphs railing against diary industry science before citing some tangential studies.
"Milk and dairy product intake was not associated with an increase in upper or lower respiratory tract symptoms of congestion or nasal secretion weight." - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2154152/
"Excessive milk consumption has a long association with increased respiratory tract mucus production and asthma. Such an association cannot be explained using a conventional allergic paradigm and there is limited medical evidence showing causality. " - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19932941/
All good. When I said initial science I meant what you said with the studies not really seeing a rise due to milk.
I was taking a jab at those that yell fake news to anything they don't like and they did their own research so I can't do the same when there is science saying hey that's probably not the case with the milk.
Thanks for pointing it out. I hadn't seen those studies before.
🎵 My milkshake brings all the phloem to the schnozz. 🎵
This is so relatable.
Try moving your pillow aside, laying flat on your back and looking straight up at your phone for a while. Sometimes that'll unblock them.
My nostrils when I wake up are both of the closed-off ones
It's actually normal.
Your nostrils cycle between like this so that the one can take a break from the air flow and mitigate drying out.
Not only does it help from drying out, but it helps with smell too; some things are better detected with a slower airflow
Yep, there's a reason our noses didn't simply evolve into a singular hole in the middle of our faces
Two nostrils allows for stereo smells. If we only had one nostril, we would only be able to smell in mono.
wake me when surround-smell drops
I was going to say because it would be fucking weird if we just had one big nose hole. Now I'm thinking about it, our nostrils are already pretty weird.
I'm now looking in the mirror at my nostrils and pumping them to the beat of a song.
Thinking about your body for too long: It's like semantic satiation but for physiology.
Also just to add to the torture of these conversations .... the inside of your lungs also have a certain 'scent' or 'aroma' to it. It's very subtle and wouldn't be noticeable to anyone else except for yourself because the exhaled air is coming straight out of your lungs and right past your nostrils and all its receptors. Your receptors can sense it but your brain automatically ignores it and you never notice.
The same goes for your vision ... you have a natural blind spot in the center of your vision ... the edges are not crisp and clean, you can only focus on about 10 percent of what you actually see in front of you, the rest is just blurry ... your brain just automatically processes your entire vision and autogenerates a perceived image that makes us believe that we have crystal clear vision through our entire field of view.
Same goes with hearing ... just about every person has a tiny bit of tinnitus, ringing of the ears but your brain just automatically processes it all out to make you think that you have crystal clear hearing.
When you think about it ... all our senses are pretty imperfect and there is a lot of interference and nonsense data that our brain processes out to make us believe that we have perfect or near perfect vision, hearing and sense of smell.
I read about this when I was in high school and it freaked me out because I convinced myself that there were Cthulhu-like eldritch abominations inhabiting the spaces I could not see RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME and I couldn't concentrate on school for the rest of the day.
You should read Blindsight by Peter Watts.
Or maybe not idk haha
Yeah, when I read that book I was like: this reminds me of that time I freaked out in high school!
I admire the fact that the author put it online for free, and it's a pretty good book, but it could have been better... Watts could have taken all those ideas about consciousness and humanity and produced something like 1984 or Catch-22 that embodies ideas that might otherwise get lost in abstractions. Unfortunately the ideas all get a little muddled.
Yeah for sure! On the other hand it being such a dense, philosophical book means it really stands up to and benefits from a re-read! And the audiobook has a great narrator IMO.
Well, this conversation inspired me to finally read The Colonel, which reminded me of how great some of Watts' ideas could be. Guess I'll have to get a copy of Echopaxia next.
Oh damn I didn't know about that! I'll be reading that this week, thanks for the link!
Echopaxia was definitely different, I wasn't crazy about it my first read through but it had me shook pretty good my second read through. I highly recommend it!
I think if you've already read Echopraxia then The Colonel won't tell you much new, it's more like a transition between the two novels.
More info for those who are curious https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_cycle
Yes, and most importantly I would say : immune system's way of cleaning each side...
The clogging is caused by the swelling (with the blood vessels and the action of blood's white cells ... or ... maybe I should read the article again)
If it's normal, why does it bother me so much? The feeling drives me absolutely nuts and I hate it.
Hey that's just part of becoming aware you're a sentient being stuck in a weird meat vessel that's just full of undebugged closed source code blobs.
If you're slightly congested, it sucks more.
If you think about it too much about your breathing, it sucks.
Otherwise it's fine.
aaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
You're welcome.
Of course my breathing is all I can think about now.
Well yea.
There's also a nose in your field of view.
You are now blinking manually
Fuck this one got me for a minute.
Don't forget to swallow your saliva now and then.
You can feel your ears.
Sweaing in the Sennheizers.
But why not both
Then they'd both dry out (or you'd suffocate).
Well that's some peoples goals and its none of my business
Why is your name red
I am the red one destroyer of spam, csam and abusive content.
You can summon me with the flag icon.
For real though, I'm just a random dude lending a hand with moderation on sh.itjust.works where your account is.
Peace
I just wanted to say these comments are off the chain. This is how the internet used to be- just people chatting, making jokes and telling stories.
I didn't know how much I missed it.
Welcome to the Internet without corporate rot
I'm enjoying these brief moments of Lemmy before it becomes mainstream. Who knows maybe it never will which is kinda bad but also kinda good.
It stinks to think that the mainstreaming of this platform that definitely should go mainstream would probably diminish its value for me specifically.
But I guess that’s what communities and even themed instances are for.
Too late
This is called the nasal cycle.
Use Flonase to help (need daily use for >= 4 weeks) If this doesn't help enough, you should see an ENT.
Fun fact: the turbinates in the nose (which are responsible for the nasal cycle) have erectile tissue in them.
Source: your friendly neighborhood Otolaryngologist
Hi, I'd like to subscribe to Daily Otolaryngologist Facts.
Also fun fact: don't follow medical advice given by strangers on the Internet that claim they are an expert
You can never verify that claim
So, you are saying I should follow medical advice by strangers in the Internet?
Only if they don't claim they're an expert.
True; I, and I'm sure most other physicians would not provide identifiable data in a public forum. If you are having issues with nasal obstruction, alternating or otherwise., best advice is to follow up with your pcm for treatment, possible referral.
I had a doctor basically remove everything from my nose that could be removed including a bunch of the turbinates. It's great I can actually breathe through it now.
Yeah, inferior turbinate reduction is the next small step for this. Often if it's just alternating nasal obstruction that's good enough. Oftentimes there's another component of nasal valve collapse or septal deviation. Personally, in my population, I end up doing septorhinoplasty (nose job) way more often than other smaller nasal surgery.
You don't want them to actually remove the turbinates, however. We generally just shrink them down -- removing them makes the nasal air less turbulent, and difficult to sense airflow. TL;DR it make look like you can drive a semi truck through the nose, but people will feel like they cannot breathe at all. People have killed themselves over this.
I had this recommended for me, but the risk of empty nose syndrome scared the shit out of me.
It can happen, but the way most ENTs train these days, unlikely. I've seen it twice that I recall off the top of my head, but very rare these days.
Most ENTs, including myself, are overly cautious. You're at a higher risk for symptom recurrence because of under resection.
That being said, I wouldn't let an oral surgeon or general plastic surgeon touch my family member's nose (unless they had a very very good reputation). Nothing wrong with their work, I'm just not sure they had the same training and respect for the nose.
How does that not get your nose tissue addicted to nasal sprays?
This applies to nasal decongestants (NOT nasal steroids). Nasal decongestants (such as oxymetazoline AKA afrin, or phenylephrine based medications) are vasoconstrictors. They work very well and work very quickly as the vasoconstriction (constricting the blood vessels) which shrinks the inferior turbinates (and any other edematous tissue).
The body responds to chronic vasoconstriction by making more blood vessels. When the nasal tissues have more blood vessels (and I presume are more dense with vessels) it's harder for the decongestant to work. This is called rebound congestion --- conversely, the patients in this scenario will feel they need to use more decongestant since it previously worked so well, but it no longer does. This cycle can be challenging to treat.
For this reason most ENTs, including myself, typically recommend against afrin use for more than 3 consecutive days. I've seen who go as long as five, but I'm cautious and would not recommend more than 3 days.
It's a bit funny, because if you come into my clinic and get an endosocpic exam of the nose and/or throat (i.e. probably around 50%, often more, of my patients on any given day), I will spray afrin and lidocaine into the nose before my examination. The other main thing I use it for is nosebleeds. It's okay to use it for 3 days during an acute exacerbation of sinusitis, but I don't really think it's necessary.
Edit: I forgot to mention nasal steroids. As I said, the above response doesn't apply to them. We don't include nasal steroids in this because they have a very slow effect and don't have the effect of rebound congestion. With few exceptions doing 2 sprays each nostril daily for a very long is fine for almost everybody, and usually helpful. When I prescribe them I recommend patients use them for at least 4 weeks. Once in awhile there are patient that I would be more cautious with prescribing nasal steroids, such as those with a septal perforation, or frequent nose bleeds. Usually it's a non issue. Tip: when spraying them don't spray straight back -- use your opposite hand and spray towards the eye (i.e. spray with right hand into left nostril, aiming towards left eye).
Thank you for this great answer, I feel like I just learned a ton :D
I wish it was that easy. Flonase did nothing for me other than cause my nose to bleed. Azelastine helped some though and that makes sense for me, my congestion is likely caused by dust mite allergy.
Affrin is amazing for what it is. A few weeks ago I had a sinus headache so bad I threw up. Affrin cleared it up in 30 seconds, and I was able to maintain it without affrin after that.
Nosebleeds can happen and certainly do for some. Nasal hydration helps (for instance, ayr gel in combination with saline spray or irrigations). Ultimately, a good portion of patients that don't tolerate or fail nasal steroids get surgery.
Azelaetine is fantastic - there's a lot of patients I prescribe it in conjunction with Flonase. Allergic rhinitis or even just excessive secretions is common in patients with inferior turbinate hypertroph/nasal obstruction, and both meds have a function. They sell it as a combination, actually, but often insurance doesn't cover the combo.
If you hold your breath to the point you can't anymore your body will automatically clear your nostrils in an attempt to help you not suffocate to death
I taught this trick to my then 4 year old and he legit almost passed out then came back from the edge with a "mommy I can breef!"
Your comment legit made me laugh 😂
I'm not a regular mom, I'm a kewl mom. Legit I did the same thing when I learned that trick and I was like heyyyy buddy! 👉😎👉
I don't think this is how it works...
It is! It's to prevent situations where your mouth is obstructed and your nose is clogged from killing you. Give it a try
If you live in multiple story buildings you can run up and down the stairs. It'll clear the congestion too.
They actually switch every hour or so, so after two hours you should be back where you left off.
I hear you can also "manually" switch them when lying down by switching the side of head you're lying on
Used to always have clogged nostrils when going to bed.
But when I slept at hotels I never had a clogged nose.
Turns out I was just allergic to dust mites.
Bought anti-dustmite sheets / spray and boom, no longer had clogged nostrils in bed.
This is worth a shot. I'll try it
I recommend getting both the anti-dustmite sheets and pillow covers as well as the spray!
A combination of all 3 legit stopped giving me a clogged nose at night immediately.
Edit:
Initial steps I put in the other comment:
My initial steps I took were:
taking bed sheets and pillow covers to the washing machine
applying anti-dustmite cover to mattress
applying anti-dustmite cover to pillows
putting bed sheets and pillow covers over the anti-dustmite covers
spraying the anti-dustmite spray over and letting dry
Hello new paranoia! What can be done with my existing things to get rid of the mites???
Fire.
The solution to everything really
I won't let those big bastards win!
Dust and vacuum, often. And with a bagged HEPA sealed vacuum. Vacuum wars YouTube channel does good recommendations at all price points.
I was legit thinking about getting a bagged vacuum but didn't because there's too many options and I got stuck in that analysis paralysis. Thanks for the recommendation, there really is a YouTube channel for everything!
Anti-dustmite spray helps kill a good amount! I was actually impressed with how fast it worked.
That and getting dust mite sheet covers for both your mattress and pillows is effective and over time will kill them off.
My initial steps I took were:
taking bed sheets and pillow covers to the washing machine
applying anti-dustmite cover to mattress
applying anti-dustmite cover to pillows
putting bed sheets and pillow covers over the anti-dustmite covers
spraying the anti-dustmite spray over and letting dry
Immediately noticed the difference and stopped getting a clogged nose in bed that day
Thanks for the game plan! I'm legit cleaning out the bedrooms this weekend and will give this a try. I had the same experience with hotels but I was like "I guess my nose just, like, really loves that bleach smell." 😆
Where did you get anti dustmite sheets? I looked a few years back and all I could find were $200 medical covers that were basically plastic bags and 1000 different ones on Amazon with 1* durability reviews. I would love to have a "legit" source and maybe some info on expectations.
Hmm I bought these and had no problems at all:
UltraBlock Zippered Mattress Protector (Queen) - Waterproof Cover Stops Dust Mite, Bed Bug, Spills, Bedwetting - Hypoallergenic Encasement with Zipper - White https://a.co/d/594j8Rh
Dust Mite and Allergen Proof Pillow Encasing (Cover); Premium Microfiber (Standard Size) https://a.co/d/8NZkbyT
Pricing for both combined being less than $50
Yep, never thought I had allergies. I was prescribed an antihistamine for a sleep disorder, and noticed this doesn't happen to me when I take antihistamines.
Fuck this post made me remember I was on automatic breathing and switched to manual, fuck
Your comment did that to me.
There's a trick I learned for clearing a stuffy nose.
Place the tip of your tongue on the roof of your mouth. Then, place a finger on the bridge of your nose.
In very small motions, alternate between pushing up on the roof of your mouth, and then releasing that and pushing on the bridge of the nose. Use a gentle teeter-totter to rock the pallette. Repeat ten or so times and, within a few seconds, your nose will be open.
what do you mean with bridge of the nose? the boney part?
Right below the divide between nose and face, so about 3mm or so. In fact, if you press up on the roof of your mouth you'll feel the spot on your nose very slightly rise up.
Essentially you're rocking the soft palette up and down which flexes the sinuses and opens them up.
If you ever get to breathe through both at once: it hurts from the dryness.
This is me when I sleep or lie down but the nostril wall never comes down 😭
You gotta swap out your nostrils for yestrils
A++, would chortle again.
Thank you, you made me smile :-)
Nostrils, when the walls fell.
Vicks, his sinuses OPEN!
No joke my doctor told me I should whash my sinis everyday before bed and told me to buy a specific bottle that makes it easier and safer, I did and OMG, life changing!! Just don't wash your sinus with regular water please!
Never use tap water it has combined chlorine it (at least where I live it does)
Probably better if you just use Johnny Walker Blue Label
Edit : source of how I know the tap water has combined chlorine.. My brother has the testing equipment because he takes care of a swimming pool.
Is it a netti pot? I’ve seen those but snorting a teapot with water seemed extreme to me but I know nothing about it 🤪
no no, it's like the photo bellow. My doctor recomended because there is a button that allows the water to go on the necessary speed only, that way it doesn't allow water to go to your ears and give you an infection.
Everytime I hear someone mention sinus, I get confused about what that is. Wikipedia says it's airpockets surrounding the nose. I don't feel anything besides fat and bone when I press down around my nose. Are they inside the skull? How do you access them?
Yes they are air pockets inside the skull, that's why when you clean it you can just push water through one nostril and it will come out on the other, because it fills the sinus. Also, sometimes you can feel you teeth too sensitive because you have something on the sinus above them
Like this
Whoa. Sensitive teeth thing was something I felt a few days ago and it was really strange. Like in my top gums. Bodies are wiiiiild
Haha I actually brought this up in my comment to OP, but do you find that you have this clogged nose in hotels or other places?
If not, and you notice it just at home you may be allergic to dust mites.
I bought dust mite bed covers, pillow covers, and spray and applied them after washing my original bed sheets and pillow covers.
Immediately that day I stopped having a clogged nose in bed.
I'd been suffering all my life thinking it was normal to have a clogged nose in bed lol, turns out I had an allergy.
Hmmm. This sounds promising. I notice that when I go on vacation and sleep overnight somewhere I usually don’t have any problems. Figured it was an allergen in the house but wasn’t sure what. I’ll take a further look into this. Thanks :)
🎵Well they blew the horn... 🎵
Meanwhile, both my nostrils are so dry they've got tumbleweeds blowing around in them.
Masturbation will clear you up for a bit.
Interestingly this may work, but I'm not sure anyone has studied it (perhaps I will do a lit search).
There's erectile tissue in the inferior turbinates that is responsible for the nasal cycle.. maybe after an emission it's more flaccid?
Sadly I do not suffer from inferior turbinate hypertroohy/ alternating nasal obstruction to test this on myself.
Edit: This has been studied.... I now have one more option in the "medical management" toolbox
https://doi.org/10.1177/0145561320981441
lol yeah, I wasn't shitposting. I read it somewhere a while ago.
The best shitposts are the ones that turn out to be real/useful.
I thought the best shitposts were the friends we made along the way
Yes, those are the best fo sure
I think it has something to do with needing more oxygen, just like doing push-ups will help and so will running around or even just stopping your breathing for ~30 seconds. Your body will eventually go into a higher alert state.
It just helps for a short bit though, when you relax your nasal passage does too and blocks all again.
It would by a sympathetic response from catecholamines -- that's how it constricts; however, I didn't know that it had been studied and was actually effective in real life until today.
It's a normal human phenomenon.
Take it a step further, Advanced yoga practitioners use "alternate nostril breaths" to consciously alter/improve physical & mental state.
Exhale all the way Hold it for 30 seconds Breath through your nose
30 seconds of breath holding feels like ages though
It's worse, even, since you have expel as much air from your lungs as you can manage for it to work reliably.
You gotta snort some water up that nose and blow hard. sweet relieve
Won't do much for the natural blocking. Notably is that this blocking is NOT caused by clogging. It's your nose deliberating shutting one hole slightly.
The reason this is because some smells take more exposure to detect while others can be detected immediately. The nose physically constricts airflow to accomplish this uneven speed on both sides.
Is this person not referencing nasal irrigation like from a neti pot? Yes, it's a very poor description if so, but it's close enough lol
My nostril generally gets blocked on the side closest to the person who's spreading all the germs.
But I find you can sort it out if you tilt your head back slightly and point your nose up, then tilt to the side away from the blocked nostril. Once the blood starts to even out you can level out your head with both nostrils fairly clear.
Mine gets like this depending on the amount of dairy I consume. It's can be pretty clear most of the timesbut mmmmhmmm ice cream and cheese...
I would never claim to know what your body does but FYI there is a popular misconception that diary promotes snot. The idea is based on the magical principle that like attracts like, there's no evidence for it.
I thought it was the dairy causes gastric reflux and that acid promotes snot.
That's an interesting read (after Googling) , especially the studies. I would love to be one of those types that says "Fake News" to anything I don't like, but the initial science seems to be there.
Sorry if that seemed to be my intention. As I mentioned, all bodies are different and if you say that happens to you I'm perfectly willing to believe it.
However, there is also a common misunderstanding about this which seems relevant to mention.
It is not.
"I've heard that you shouldn't drink milk when you have a cold because it increases phlegm. Is this true?
Answer From Julie Baughn, M.D.
No. Drinking milk does not cause the body to make phlegm." - https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/common-cold/expert-answers/phlegm/faq-20058015
The no doubt reputable "livelovefruit.com" claims "Milk and Mucus: Why Dairy is The Major Cause of Your Phlegm, Mucus and Congestion Issues" and then spends several paragraphs railing against diary industry science before citing some tangential studies.
"Milk and dairy product intake was not associated with an increase in upper or lower respiratory tract symptoms of congestion or nasal secretion weight." - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2154152/
"Excessive milk consumption has a long association with increased respiratory tract mucus production and asthma. Such an association cannot be explained using a conventional allergic paradigm and there is limited medical evidence showing causality. " - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19932941/
All good. When I said initial science I meant what you said with the studies not really seeing a rise due to milk.
I was taking a jab at those that yell fake news to anything they don't like and they did their own research so I can't do the same when there is science saying hey that's probably not the case with the milk.
Thanks for pointing it out. I hadn't seen those studies before.
🎵 My milkshake brings all the phloem to the schnozz. 🎵
This is so relatable.
Try moving your pillow aside, laying flat on your back and looking straight up at your phone for a while. Sometimes that'll unblock them.
My nostrils when I wake up are both of the closed-off ones