George Takei's Based Voting Take [Rule}
Image Transcription:
A tweet from the George Takei Twitter account which states:
"A Democrat was in the White House when my family was sent to the internment camps in 1941. It was an egregious violation of our human and civil rights.
It would have been understandable if people like me said they’d never vote for a Democrat again, given what had been done to us.
But being a liberal, being a progressive, means being able to look past my own grievances and concerns and think of the greater good. It means working from within the Democratic party to make it better, even when it has betrayed its values.
I went on to campaign for Adlai Stevenson when I became an adult. I marched for civil rights and had the honor of meeting Dr. Martin Luther King. I fought for redress for my community and have spent my life ensuring that America understood that we could not betray our Constitution in such a way ever again.
Bill Clinton broke my heart when he signed DOMA into law. It was a slap in the face to the LGBTQ community. And I knew that we still had much work to do. But I voted for him again in 1996 despite my misgivings, because the alternative was far worse. And my obligation as a citizen was to help choose the best leader for it, not to check out by not voting out of anger or protest.
There is no leader who will make the decision you want her or him to make 100 percent of the time. Your vote is a tool of hope for a better world. Use it wisely, for it is precious. Use it for others, for they are in need of your support, too."
End Transcription.
The last paragraph I find particularly powerful and something more people really should take into account.
Hoo boy. Against my better judgment, I'll wade into this pool.
If voting for either party gets you the same result, fascists wouldn't be so focused on elections and trying so hard to take the vote away.
Withholding your vote doesn't do anything. When has losing an election pushed either party left?
Voting doesn't prevent you from engaging in other forms of direct action.
Both parties suck. People will needlessly suffer and die no matter who wins. But there are also people who will suffer and die under one party but not the other, and the same can't be said the other way around. Our democracy is fundamentally flawed, but voting is a tool at our disposal, and we're in no position to turn anything down.
Before Obama, I could still remain quiet when people said "voting for anyone is implicit approval," or whatever - and for the most part, they're right - voting is a pretty low level of change.
I voted for Obama because even if he is a bit of a tool, he's black, and now a huge group of minority kids saw someone who looks like them in the white house. I voted for him not because of the "HOPE" on his signs but literally to give black kids hope. (And yeah, for the most part, it's false hope, just like it is for white kids, welcome to the club.) He was a positive symbol and, if it's a symbol who is also a centrist Democrat, that's better then a centrist Democrat that isn't a positive symbol. And a shit ton better than Mitt Romney or whoever the other guy was.
And then Trump happened, and any respect for the "don't vote" viewpoint drained out. If you still think both parties are the same at this point, you might want to start asking yourself what else is going on with you - because "not great" is not identical to "fucking terrible"...
Biden isn't doing what I want him to do - health care, income inequality, corruption in Congress, etc - but the infrastructure bill isn't a bad thing. It's actually a good thing, we need it. We need a lot more, but 1 > 0.
Also, to be blunt... we've seen this before. We know from recent history what happens when the DNC nominates the safe, centrist, establishment candidate, who fails to appeal to voters and loses to a Republican. That was 2016. Hillary Clinton lost to Trump. And who did the DNC rally behind right before Super Tuesday? That's right... Joe Biden.
The amount of people in this thread who don't understand how our voting system works is too damn high
You're absolutely correct in your points
Especially the "against my better judgement" part, this comment section went to hell really quick
Well, not anything good. But it's mathematically equivalent to half a vote for the major party candidate you like least.
Personally I'd much rather have the candidate I like the least have a harder time winning
Ideally they'd even lose
Edit: Damn autocorrect changed my comment a lot with one simple wrong correction.
I continue to hold my nose and vote blue because in virtually every case the Democratic candidate is far better than the Republican candidate (from my left leaning perspective).
What frustrates me is that I have no power to push the party further left. In my fantasy, crowds of people can shout from the streets "Democratic party, do X or I will withhold my vote!" and the Democrats will lose an election, realize their folly, and move to the left. In reality, they'll just write those crowds off as unrealistic and unreliable and likely move center to try and court more "independent" votes. With two parties dominating and the current electoral system, that's just how it goes.
I don't have the energy to be the difference, politically. I try to do the right thing and I help people I can in small ways - at work, in my small social circles, and by donating to organizations I trust will help. Hell, I'm afraid to be part of the shouting crowd because doing anything openly could jeopardize my work situation or even my employment. To add to that, I am antisocial, anxious, and too stressed in daily life to really engage in effective, direct action.
I'm just tired and disheartened. I feel like when I hold my nose and vote blue, sometimes I'm endorsing what I often perceive as a shift to the right.
Powerful, self-interested, wealthy people on the right though... they can just throw so much money at a problem. It takes so, so many more of us to fight against it. Deep down I know reducing my involvement just gives those assholes more power. It's what some of them are fighting to do - dishearten the masses so that they'll just give up.
I don't really have a point I guess. I'm just tired. I know that the right is becoming so openly fascist because they know they don't have the popular support... but they have the resources to drag this out. Maybe even change rules to make it so that breaking the law, even violence, becomes the only way to fight back. I just hope it ends soon. I'm tired of thinking about what it means when they continue to get close to half the votes all across the country.
Change in the party has to come from within. Even though Sanders didn't get the nomination, he pushed the entire party a good bit to the left.
More important than that is to get involved at all levels. It's not as flashy as the Presidency, but your vote for your local school board or town council carries a lot more weight than it does nationally.
If you're feeling very spicy, run for one of those positions
The way to do that is exactly the same way that the tea party and MAGA influenced their parties:
Show up at primaries. Vote for further left primary candidates. Primary centrists.
Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar won after the previous Democrat decided not to seek re-election. AOC successfully primaried a more centrist Democrat.
The Senate and House are really, really important. The president isn't a dictator, and the median senator honestly has a ton of power. Just look at how e.g. John McCain tanked Trump's Obamacare repeal, and how Manchin has controlled what went into Build Back Better.
President Bernie Sanders combined with a Republican House, a Republican Senate and our current Republican Supreme Court would get approximately nothing useful done.
The tea party was basically astroturfed into existence by the Koch Brothers and other rich assholes. On the left we basically have rich neoliberal assholes who are desperate to do good while still making sure their capitalist class asses stay as rich and relevant as possible. The "good" they do is also, conveniently, great at keeping them politically powerful while simultaneously lessening their tax burden.
I vote. I research and try to push the most progressive candidates. I still live in a reliably blue district in a relatively blue state. The establishment candidates have always won.
I'm not encouraging people to give up the fight. I'm just venting because I'm just so fucking tired.
Permission to copy and paste this elsewhere for the future?
If you think it would help, sure thing!
It's concise and matches how I feel about things, so hopefully it will help if/when I come across people talking about how not voting is actually the best choice
Thanks! I actually took time to make my comment shorter, so I'm glad I successfully got straight to the points. :)
"Democrats have always fucked me over but I keep voting for them because the alternative is actively more harmful".
No, I don't find it touching nor powerful. This is a celebration of the failure of the 2 party system.
When you roll out the feasible alternative let me know. Until then, I'll be voting for the candidate whose rallies don't break out in chants of "kill f*ggots, kill all transgenders"
We need to get RCV passed at the state level in at least 33 states, then we can get rid of FPTP at the federal level, and actually force some change
oh if it's that simple then lets just do that. surely we can bang it out in a weekend.
Thinking like this is the reason the 2 party system is still in place today
It is possible to fight for RCV while working within the system we have in the meantime.
Exactly. Strictly voting only means you're complacent in the system, more needs to be done if we ever wanna see any real progress.
Of course, but you should also vote for the lesser of two evils come election time.
That's exactly my point. Do both.
thinking realistically about the likelihood of getting ~= 80 million people to vote for any one third party, or thinking realistically about the likelihood of getting those two parties to agree to vote their own power away?
See, that's the issue, you're thinking within the bounds of voting. There's other stuff you can do, like community outreach, or talking to local politicians, or protesting. Real change in America was never won with a vote, it was fought for on the streets.
Who says I'm not doing that too?
Are you?
yes, regularly. I'm active in labor organizing, have walked picket lines with people who would go on to be US senators, make and give care packages to homeless people on the street and volunteer at my local food pantry. I've helped organize letter writing campaigns to get the tipped minimum wage raised and to get higher wages from the state for people who work in support services for adults with developmental challenges. I've flyered the parking lots of restaurants that were fighting the unemployment claim of a pregnant woman they fired without cause in an effort to pressure them to drop the case. I've protested outside town halls and other political events like that since 2001. I don't owe you my bona fides at all, but here they are. The idea that you can't be a good progressive unless you abandon the only meaningful resistance available against someone who is openly trying to dismantle democracy is simply horseshit. Trump played this same game against Clinton in 2016 and it worked. He actively campaigned for people who might have voted for her to stay home. "she's not a real progressive", "they're all the same anyway", "she's got this in the bag", etc. I absolutely DO NOT volunteer myself and my family to be sacrificed to some twitter communist's ideological purity test. You do the job that's in front of you, and the job that's in front of us right now is preventing another Trump presidency. Don't be a fucking Republican psyop.
Hell yeah! That's what I'm talking about! Preach! This is the fire!
You don't need 80 million people to vote third party.
What you need is enough votes to show as a big enough blip on the election results to make both the Democrats and Republicans sweat out of fear they may be losing their iron grip.
Change will soon follow
How many would you estimate you need and what's the plan to get them?
Nobody said it was simple, but yes. Let’s do that.
Doing the easy thing is what’s got us to where we are.
can you pull it off in under a year? because in a year we're gonna have a presidential election and one of the leading candidates is someone whose already been determined by a court to have engaged in insurrection and has said that he'll have the military suppress protests starting day one and will replace 50,000 government functionaries with people whose only qualification is that they're loyal to him personally. his friends tell me every day that god has commanded them to kill me 😀
I would surmise it would take between 15 and 40 years to get it passed.
Imagine if we’d started pushing for this in earnest 15 years ago.
Like they say, the second best time to plant a tree is today.
What might help to effect this change? If I'm not mistaken, a number of states are almost under single-party rule, particularly those that might benefit most from this kind of change.
Is it something that may be built up from a municipal to county to state level to then establish on a national level?
Back in the day the "Moral Majority' took over the GOP by taking over the local offices. If the usual attendance at a meeting was twenty folks, the MMs would make sure to show up with 50. It took them a while, but they were persistent.
We tried to pass it at a county level here in California, and it passed in several counties, only for the registrar of voters go to the state legislature to overturn it, so, maybe?
Nice idea, but it isn't going to happen before the 2024 elections. First things first.
RCV favors moderates and promotes political stability. That's kinda the opposite of a revolution.
That's better than the fascism that FPTP favors. It's not revolutionary, but at least we might start heading in the right direction
RCV does the opposite, actually. It exhibits center squeeze, where centrists are often eliminated early even if more people prefer them over the eventual winner.
Yeah that happens most of the time in a PR system
Radicals come to power under fair systems by being able to reach disenchanted voters in a national crisis or uproar.
That word "feasible" is doing a lot of work. No doubt the politician I want to vote for won't be "feasible" for some reason, and the one you want me to vote for is.
which politician do you want to vote for, and what's their path to victory that doesn't involve making massive systemic changes to both the electoral system and the electorate in under a year?
In the general election the "feasible" candidate is always the Democratic nominee, so you should never have any argument about it at that stage. Meanwhile in the primary people try to use that sort of "feasibility" / electability argument against farther left Dems, but it is total nonsense and can be completely ignored at that stage.
Ok guy.
When you figure out a means of political activity that doesn't involve refining the capitalist regime as it stands, let me know. Until then, I won't be voting for candidates who help slaughter innocent people around the world.
Apathy is acceptance. Apathy is death.
You say that like complicity isn't also both of those things.
You need to understand that violent people will kill a pacifist. Quite easily.
Then maybe the Democrats should run candidates who treat Republicans as an existential threat rather than their friends across the aisle. Heck, they could start by refusing campaign donations from the rich assholes who fund both sides of the election.
Some Democrats do. You find them in the primaries. It's how politicians like AOC got to where they are. But it starts with people like you paying attention in primaries.
I do, despite the fact that they rarely ever get past the primaries. The party establishment cares more about preserving the status quo for their financiers than faithfully representing their voting base. The threat to withhold my vote in the general election is the only leverage I have against the party, and I will apply it to the best of my ability.
Vote in the primaries, put in the work in the primaries. And if you don't get it, vote not Hitler.
I refuse to promise my vote, and especially not a year in advance. "Safe" voters can be safely ignored since you'll vote blue no matter who, it's undecided voters control the outcome of the election.
If you want the party to suck less, then you need to start demanding better and back it up with the threat of withdrawing your support.
Remind them that they're supposed to represent you, and what the consequences are if they fail to do so.
You're halfway there. But not voting at all is giving a vote to the opposition. And they vote no matter who.
So you won't use your vote to help less people die?
Ah, so you are never voting again.
That is part of the calculus people are making when they express the idea they won't vote for candidate A for reasons X and candidate B for reasons Y.
It is how voters can express their political will during the primary and electoral process. If a candidate can modify their position on X or Y because of voter concerns, that would be a meaningful part of the democratic process influenced by the voters. They're trying to forge that alternative.
The real unfeasible alternative is actually just doing nothing and letting the donors buy their selected policies and voting for the lesser evil between them. That is just supporting the status quo.
That's not what he said and you know it, shut up.
Ok
World's oldest current democracy. It also has all the oldest flaws. USA and UK are stuck with a system that will always end up with two parties filled with wildly different politicians. Biden and AOC are both democrats. Trump and Romney are both republicans. What does each party stand for? Who the fuck knows? Republicans haven't stood for anything for the last 10 years or so. Democrats have countered all that with "being normal and not rocking the boat". Democrats are acting like your mom after her boyfriend beat her. "We can work something out later when we've all calmed down".
What is really happening today is that the US has one party with politicians who actually do the job. The other party is an insane asylum where the craziest bitch gets the most attention. This means that every time one party has a popular vote the other party gets even more insane. And the first party, not wanting to alienate voters try meet half way. This is like your mom begging you to talk to your stepdad after he beat your sister. That's how America got so far into neoliberalism, fascism and one election away from dictatorship. Multi party system works because it forces compromise and even if the government changes it won't swing as hard as it did after Obama.
Very tangential, but why do Americans like to claim they're the workds oldest democracy? That's just so incredibly untrue to the point of being funny.
Oldest existing democracy, not the first one to ever exist. Here is an article that discusses the basis and legitimacy of this claim: https://www.valuewalk.com/top-10-countries-with-oldest-democracies/
I mean that article kind of proves my point. It's the world's oldest ******* democracy.
Only when you include a bunch of qualifiers of what counts. Like constitutional democracies that have some voting rights for black people and women and not including dependant nations or colonies. And even then it gives a few examples of why its still not the oldest.
I have absolutely no idea. Whenever people say it's the oldest or the birth of democracy, I just chuckle and tell them to read a history book.
I'm an American. It's definitely not something I was ever taught in school. I've only begun to hear it recently, in fact. I mean we learned about the Ancient Greeks when I was in school...
Also, I knew about Iceland a long time ago.
I mean aside from San Marino, what others are there that are older and still around?
The obvious one being the United Kingdom with either Bill of rights in 1689 or the first UK Parliament in 1707, depending on how you define it. Either way over half a century before the American revolution.
That's a constitutional monarchy, not a democracy
So then the US is a Republic not a democracy and doesn't count either.
Because depending on what exactly one means when they say it, it's arguably true that it is in fact the oldest extant liberal democracy, that's why. There are a lot of potential objections, many of which are perfectly valid, but I'm not here to defend the proposition, I am simply telling you why people say it.
I hope this isn't character development.
It's just relatable analogies. I knew a girl in the 90's who had a normal childhood and we all stopped interacting with her because we didn't want to jinx it.
Liberal-splaining strategic voting is how my socialist brain interprets this. This isn't as condescending as others but yeah it's not powerful or touching it's a sad coping mechanism, even sadder because he's been so negatively affected personally by it.
Winner takes it all it the biggest bullshit ever. Anything but popular vote is worth jack shit.
I mean straight popular vote is also winner take all just not skewed by weird slavery shit counting rules
Wrong. It's "democrats advanced in fits and starts, sometimes stumbling and falling, but heading in the direction of the finish line. I keep voting for them because the other guys are trying to set off a dirty bomb on the race track."
Ok. And your point is? Not voting isn't going to do shit. You are not going to change the system by not participating. That's a losing strategy.
This would all be resolved if America just changed first past the post voting.
We'll only change it with enough push from citizens
Push for a new system (like ranked choice or STAR) in your state for state elections and we can likely make it popular enough to get it to the national stage
Speaking as an Australian:
I also feel like you need mandatory voting (with enforcement), like what we have. That reframes elections from "riling up your power base so they go out and vote" to "hey average voter, here's why you should vote for me and how things will improve if you do so".
Americans don't even get the day off to vote, and they have to stand in line for 12 to 16 hours to be able to vote.
I think they would revolt if they were required by law to vote.
Mitch McConnell literally called a proposal to give federal workers election day off so they could vote a "Democrat power grab"
In the end my view on it is you're asking yourself what battlefield you want to fight on when you vote for president. Sure both of the likely options are going to be uphill battles but one seems much easier to battle in than the other.
Preaching to the choir, I know, but you'd think it'd be pretty fucking telling to American voters when there's always one party, the same party, fighting against any efforts to make voting and elections easier, more accessible, more transparent, more representative, and more able to accurately reflect the true will of the people.
Not saying that either side is perfect on that scorecard, but one party, over and over and over again has tirelessly worked to prevent any sort of measure that might allow the American people to have their wishes and interests reflected in their elections.
This is exactly why I find it so frustrating when people holler "they're the same"
It shows exactly how uninformed they are or how misleading they are being
It's really easy to see how each member voted in Congress and it's really easy to see who supports what
Not to mention the statements made by the politicians
STAR is great. Ranked choice is, at best, it’s a little better than FPP. At worst, it’s the same as FPP. I hate how many people are pushing for FPP, when STAR is just the best choice, by far. At worst, it’s leagues better than FPP and ranked choice.
I only recently learned about STAR and it really seems great, I'm hoping that I can convince more people in my home state it's a good idea
So far my friends and family are on board, and they've talked with more people they know
So only about 200ish down and a few million to go
That has to happen at the state level, as they control how the elections are conducted.
Something I try to drum up in these sorts of threads is that your state and local elections can be far more important to pushing progressive policy than federal elections. Most of the work for high speed rail, for example, has to be taken up by state government. The federal government might offer some funding, but they only hold that out there for states to choose to take or not. Same with bicycle lanes, housing, or diverting police funding into more comprehensive solutions. That's all state and local government.
Voting for Democrats at the federal level is merely to keep some of that funding sitting out there, and to not actively block progress otherwise. That's it. That's what voting them into the White House and Congress is for. The rest needs to be done in your local community.
Ish.
If each state holds an internal ranked choice election and assigns their electors based on that, almost certainly the result would be that no one has 270 electoral college votes and the house of representatives gets to appoint whoever they want.
You'd have to have a national ranked choice vote. That's because ranked choice is inconsistent; you could have an election where A wins every state, but nationally D wins. More likely, though, you'd have vote splitting across states.
Or if the debates weren't managed by a private entity owned by the other two parties.
Canada has first past the post voting, and 3 active parties. My province has first pas the post and has 4 major parties (with a 5th one that is close but can't get a representative in). I'll agree that ranked voting at least would be a lot better.
Dude using Canada's FPTP system as a positive example is ridiculous, it's barely functioning.
Don't worry, with enough time it will be as dysfunctional as the US's FPTP system
Cries in American
And it's a disaster in Canada. The only reason the Conservatives ever take power up there is because of the giant vote split between NDP and the Liberals. Look how the conservatives are heavy favorites to win their next election despite every poll showing them with less than the combined votes of the Liberals and NDP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_45th_Canadian_federal_election
I mean you assume that a significant number of NDP voters would vote for the libs if they weren't there (or maybe vice-versa). I'm really not sure of that.
Yes I definitely assume that. Maybe not every single person since who knows what goes on in people's heads, but generally we should expect the voters for the two left of center parties to prefer the other left of center one to the right wing one. Particularly since presumably if there was a single party representing those voters it would probably be somewhere in between them ideology-wise.
Sorry for the late reply, the lack of a red envelope makes me not notice replies.
People on election day have to decide if they go voting at all. This is a big deal, it's what most of the campaign in the ridding is focusing on changing (you want to make sure all of your voters go vote, that is top priority in an election).
Having a party that is a bad fit for you is demotivating and likely to reduce turnout. That is what I mean by "likely to vote". It's not the right wing option that people will go for. It's the comfort of staying home and not bothering to vote for a "lib" if you're a progressive, or for a "commie" if you're a lib. For some people, the NDP is already too far right...
So yeah, some of the support of the NDP would transfer over to the liberal party, but definitely not all. And that's not to mention all of the crazy people who can go from NDP to tories at the drop of a hat (voters have shallower roots than the base, or have irrational hatred of specific politicians or parties) or who would just vote Bloq Québécois or something else.
Vote for the most useful option, then go make a difference in local politics or wherever you can actually influence anything. Limiting your interactions with politics to whining isn't going to change anything for the better and is definitely not going to get rid of Republicans nor Democrats.
This is the way. Even if you think voting for the "lesser" option is demeaning, it does no harm if you continue to use direct action as well
Not to mention how alot of that "direct action" is performative at best (Cash me on insta with all my best makeup and then never even working a food kitchen once because actual solidarity isn't sexy) while voting actually shifts the national convo over a concerted sustained effort
Yeah tbf most people probably just skip voting because they feel helpless anyway and then don't even go to a single protest.
The true incarnation of MLKs figure of the white moderate, telling you to their face that they're an ally to the cause and then failing to muster the will to even do the smallest amount of work towards being an ally.
I agree, however I think most anyone that may only be grumbling may find themselves doing so as they're stuck on the question of, how do I get involved? Where do I get started with any of it?
The answers will vary by locality and how they're organized, but some direction (that is, examples) is better than none.
If you're able to go to your town or city hall hearings, there's that. There are even some interesting/sad/entertaining videos of some from recent times that have been recorded and uploaded online for public viewing
My father beat me when I was a kid, he ran for child services president and I voted for him. I heard that the other guy beat his kids more, so I really had a moral duty to vote for my dad. You guys, it's really important to vote for the guy who beats his kids less.
My local mayor wants to increase funding for the public transit, but he didn't say ACAB, so I'm not gonna vote for him even if the other other guy is gonna slash the public transit funding by half 😤😤
You make a good point.
The person you responded to also makes a good point.
There's no one-size-fits-all (all voters or all elections) solution on this one.
All we can ultimately do is encourage our fellow voters to open their minds, learn all they can about the issues and candidates, and make the best use they feel they can with their right to vote.
Shaming someone for not voting for your candidate is a great way to repel them from your camp long term. Respecting their decision, even if you disagree with it, sets a much better example of the sort of level-headedness you'd likely want people to associate with your causes.
Does shaming people for saying slurs repel them from your camp long term?
Is it acceptable to respect someone's decision to say r*ard because it sets a better example of the kind of level-headedness the anti-slurs camp wants people to associate them with?
Like it or not, shame, not fitting in with the group, is a motivating force.
Idiotic take
How? It is exactly what it sounds like when people say to vote for the "lesser evil", especially in this post.
But that IS still better than voting for the greater evil.
Because it's a stupid fucking reason not to vote and it's a misrepresentation of the post itself. You can't get much more idiotic than that.
If there was absolutely no chance for some one other than the two child beaters getting elected, then it would make sense. But that's not the case for the US presidency.
Alright. Here's the scenario.
You're at the ballot box. It is between Biden and Trump. In this hypothetical it is so far a tie. They are neck to neck. Let's say it is 5 mil votes to 5 mil. Either needs one more vote to win. Your vote is the deciding one to be president.
What do you do?
Refuse to vote because the right-wing bias of the electoral college would give that hypothetical election to Trump either way, just like it did in 2016.
For the sake of argument let us ignore the electoral college, in which case I would still refuse to vote since a tie must be broken by Congress in an undemocratic process that harms the government's claim to legitimacy just like when the supreme court gave the 2000 election to Bush.
So you relinquish responsibility and defer it to another entity? One that is currently corrupt and broke, paralleling your issue with the executive office and election process.
So you'd put it up to some nebulous future decision, by another entity, with who'd be president? If Trump is elected he isn't leaving office. We are going full fash, and people of color and queer folk will be going first. Trans people will most likely first.
If Biden wins, for the most part the status quo stays the same but we get a chance to democratically make life better. Trans people are much safer in this path, same with other marginalized folk.
With this information, would you reconsider your answer?
As a trans person myself, I dont want to be a martyr but I cannot abide by a false choice between bad and worse. That isn't Democracy, it's a Faustian Bargain that can only temporarily delay the inevitable crisis of legitimacy that marks the end of the American Empire.
Justice delayed is justice denied, and waiting for a more convenient hour will only preserve a status quo where people like me are frequently murdered without consequence.
In full consideration of the risk, I must continue to insist that Democrats aren't worthy of my time and energy. Instead, I focus on building robust networks of mutual aid and community support that we might minimize loss of life during the transition to a new form of government.
Why can't you do that while being under a democratic presidency? Why not vote for Biden, prevent deaths and pain and human suffering, but also work towards that goal?
Under fascism, good luck doing that. It's going to be impossible to build robust networks of mutual aid. You are going to be in a concentration camp next to me, waiting in line to be gased or cooked.
And who needs to give Dems time or energy? Fuck them. I barely think about them. I vote blue, and while I do l, I work with my community to make it better. I help support progressive candidates and policies, unions, and so much more. All this only possible under a non-fascistic regime.
To me, it sounds like you're waiting for that convenient hour. That right candidate. I rather do that while alive and have my freedoms.
There's a Democrat in office now.
Whether or not I actually vote is nobody's business but my own. My public threats to withhold my vote are a sentiment manipulation strategy for pushing the party to suck less.
They managed to do it in Chile while Republicans and Democrats were sponsoring the Pinochet regime. We'll do it too, because we'll have to.
And by admitting it, you reveal yourself as a "safe" voter whom the party can ignore rather than a potentially reachable voter that the party must actively pander to.
I don't discuss the details of my political activities in public, but you can trust that I'm not waiting around for some hero to swoop in and save the day. I've been disappointed too many times before.
I believe we should reduce harm. We shouldn't cause more pain and suffering. Not voting for Biden does this. This accelerationism is a gigantic gamble, and no matter what it will just increase pain. If Trump becomes presidency, it won't just be another Republican. It will be another Hitler. You are trans right? You are at the front of the chopping block. You aren't getting any of your goals done.
I am ultimately not telling you what to vote for. I want to explore what makes an individual think why they shouldn't vote this upcoming election. This hypothetical leads to genocide. It's unfortunate many people think this way. I don't want my partner and loved ones come to harm. We don't have that privilege to not vote.
I agree, we should reduce harm.
That's why I'm doing everything I can to push the Democrats to reform now, rather than promising to "vote blue no matter who" and sitting on my ass 'til voting day.
Its astounding to me that so many folks in these comments have such little faith in the party that they skip straight to the assumption that I won't be voting and waste time trying to change my mind rather than calling their representatives and demanding they shape up.
Really?
Look up logical fallacies. Specifically straw man, slippery slope, and black and white. The guys isn't even making an argument, he's pointing out an outlandish example that wouldn't realistically exist in the given context to elicit an emotional response.
If the politicians can't give people something to vote FOR, then they don't deserve our vote. Come get my vote, thats how politics work.
Complain today about fewer options.
Complain tomorrow about Führer options.
It's ok to complain. The complaints are valid. Still vote and encourage others to vote.
If your two choices are between a 99% fascist and a 98% fascist. Vote for the 98% fascist.
Problem is that people actually think that it's 99% vs 98% (not saying you think that) when that's not the case. You have a guy that incited a riot against our democratic process and a guy that kept encouraging unity and actually helped fund infrastructure, local chip manufacturing, renewable funding, etc.
I'm actually going to vote for the 0% fascist instead.
votesocialist2024.com/
I'm sorry to say that this will probably not be a choice.
3rd parties are great and all, but the most likely outcome is that a vote for them will remove a vote for a more realistic candidate.
I hate this, but it is the reality of the situation.
In a democracy, if there is no alternative we have to vote for the lesser of the evil. It's better to keep things worse, than to make it more worse, if there is no alternative. If an alternative is there, then absolutely. We should all be encouraging an alternative system in a democracy. But if nothing's is available, then this.
That's the logical answer in the short term, but it also makes you a "safe" voter that the Democrats don't have to care about in the long term.
Don't promise them your support in advance. Be a "swing" voter and make it clear to the party that if they want your vote they'll have to earn it.
On the safe voter part I agree. Never promise anything. Ask question on what developments have the parties brought to a place.
BTW I am not American, but democracy is democracy doesn't matter the place. Earth is Earth.
Then let me be the first to apologize for whatever evils the American State has done to you and your compatriots in my name.
That said, elections are fundamentally not a process for selecting leaders. That's merely the method by which they accomplish their purpose, to legitimize the State's claim to power.
There's no option in the "democratic process" that represents those of us who see a State as illegitimate. It's most obvious when you consider the elections in North Korea or Russia, but "democracy" as implemented cannot be "democracy" as we are taught to understand the term. Without a "none of the above" box that no government ever provides (because it would defeat their purpose for holding elections), our only choice is whether or not to participate in our own disenfranchisement.
No need to apologise. There is no hatred between the general public of any country. It's the warmongers who spoil the relations.
Saying democrats or voting got black people rights is a slap in the face of those who literally fought for them.
I'm sure black people would have gotten better rights if no one voted for the lesser of 2 evils.
People fought for the rights, and politicians who supported those rights won elections because people voted for them.
It played a role. Because the Democrats and President Johnson were in charge during the Civil Rights movement, we got the Civil Rights Act. Because the Republicans and President Trump were in charge during the BLM movement, we got jackshit (on a federal level). This stuff matters.
The parties didn't have unanimous ideological consensus within them back then, that's really only been a thing during the last 30 years.
Great illustration of this from Biden during a campaign event in 2019:
Those "across the aisle" politicians he pointed to there were James O. Eastland and Georgia Sen. Herman Talmadge, both racist segregationist Democrats.
I fully agree that politics have changed, I'm just arguing that having a sympathetic President and Congress in office makes it significantly easier to get legislation passed by protest.
Generally I agree with the idea that "great people don't make history, but sometimes history produces a great person." There's a few points in US history where individual people's decisions did impact a lot though, thinking of Andrew Johnson during reconstruction. The economic system now and what America is to the world isn't really up for debate anymore, some have referred to this as the post-political era where more and more issues are culturally focused since both parties are consented on the economic system where meaningful change actually happens. Obama really embodied this because he was so powerful a figure yet change didn't really happen, he's like the best case scenario in this current arrangement, and look what happened after him... all of this is part of the slide to the right because it's via the economic arrangement consented to by both parties that this happens.
With Civil Rights era I think the battle was really won in the courts and through labor organizing. Economic pressure was put on the system in this way and the system had to deal with it. Then you had those individual moments of bravery, like after segregation laws were struck down, "Freedom Riders" tested the laws by riding desegregated busses to the south, getting mobbed and jailed but unable to be formally charged.
This upcoming election I'm voting for independent or 3rd party. Fuck blue or red.
Republicans keep their hold on power by systematically disenfranchising voters who disagree with their policies. In a perfect world, voting for a third-party candidate that has no chance to win might have some positive impact; in our world, it means you're doing the Republicans' work for them.
There are only two choices that matter, unfortunately. Voting third party may as well mean not voting at all. Vote in primaries, vote locally and vote for whoever is for voting reform.
Notice how blue voters shame you instead of questioning why the party isn't attracting your vote. Think about how you're being shamed in to voting for a party which provides weapons for an ongoing fascist genocide, then they say if you don't support this the fascist will win, and it will be your fault. Not the Democrats fault, the ones who could easily run a popular candidate to beat the historically unpopular Trump, nope it's the fault of the voters they need, and they want to get them by shaming them in to it. Worked great in 2016, keep it up guys, best case the Democrats win and keep funding ad campaigns for fascist GOP candidates, don't forget Hillary's campaign helped Trump get the nomination. Downward spiral politics.
No, candidates "earn your vote" in the primaries -- the general election is damage control. The fact that needs to be explained is depressing.
We saw what abstaining and protest votes got us in 2016 and nobody should be stupid enough to fall for that again. I will absolutely shame someone for being an idiot incapable of pragmatism in a choice between "bad" or "irrecoverably catastrophic" when the options are already outside of their control.
You know Biden or Trump (or his proxy) is going to be the president in 2024. You also know MAGA voters are organized, motivated, and will turn out to vote for their candidate. It is a bald fact that 3rd party or protest votes will only serve to help Donald Trump get elected and nothing else.
Good fucking luck forwarding any leftist cause or candidates in your lifetime if Trump is elected.
Liberal-splaining this ad infinitum, calling people idiots, and blaming those the party (and you) turn away is again a confession. The party won't change if you don't focus your concerns in that direction, and shaming your political allies is self-sabotage.
As they said, you can push for this change in the primaries. No shame in being principaled or taking a long shot there, but in the general you're just handing power to a fascist if you don't vote dem.
I don't get why you're going around every comment here to complain about being talked down to while you seem to not even understand what you're arguing against.
This is how democracies die. Fascists come to power when their opposition fractures. I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just telling you how it is. Choose wisely.
Dems should band together and all vote for someone in a third party to show current party leadership you are no longer putting up with their choices and don't need them. Vote wisely.
Apart from the main point he made, and I agree with it, I would love to hear more about his meeting Dr. King. That must be a very interesting story.
Dr. King was a Star Trek fan. He convinced Nichelle Nichols to stay on the show when she was toying with leaving to further her career. It's quite possible that Dr King was the fan meeting Mr Takai.
True, I forgot about his meeting with Nichelle Nichols. How cool is it that he was a Trekkie?
Shoo, they’re breaking out the pablum early this time.
Rather than doing your duty to the democrats, why not recognize the weakness their propaganda indicates and use it to force them to take policy positions you want to get your support?
So basically I'm voting democrat so our government doesnt start killing (more) vulnerable people. What a great system
Voting out of anger or protest is what got Obama elected twice, Trump and Biden once..so far.