U.S. Air Force member who set himself on fire outside Israeli Embassy in D.C. has died
nbcnews.com
The airman, who filmed the incident and could be heard yelling “Free Palestine,” was hospitalized with life-threatening injuries after collapsing to the ground.
The U.S. Air Force member who set himself on fire outside the Israeli Embassy in Washington, D.C., in an apparent protest against the Israel-Hamas war has died, according to a U.S. official.
Next of kin notification is continuing, so the Air Force won’t release his name until 24 hours after the final notification is complete.
The District of Columbia Fire and Emergency Medical Service Department responded to a call about a person on fire outside the embassy just before 1 p.m. Sunday, and found the flames extinguished by the Secret Service’s uniformed division.
I dislike this. I've seen first hand what serious burns do to people, both in the immediate and long term. Imo, this is there should be no speech louder than this, but it just kinda gets an "oh, damn, really? Man. What's on the next channel?" reaction. I dislike that people resort to this when they're going to get ignored, and I dislike that it largely is ignored except for a fleeting moment of sensational headlines.
The problem is, as far as I see it, that this doesn't change minds. Thousands of children are dead now. Unless you're totally ignorant of that, in which case you will be totally ignorant of why he killed himself in this manner, it's not going to make you suddenly care about Palestine when exponentially more dead children who didn't die by their own hand will not.
Or discredit him as a libtard crazy. That is what people on the other side of this argument have been saying. I hate this world.
I wish I could say I was surprised.
The base’s Pavlovian rejection of anything said by an accused outsider has got to be one of the Republican party’s biggest real “achievements.”
Or maybe I’m giving them too much credit. Mixing simple “ill will towards others” with a dash of “confirmation bias” will produce a very similar result.
I see this in every argument on Lemmy.
It's easy for far away things, even horrific things, to just seem like trivia with no real salience to our lives. A statement like this is meant to wake people up that caring about the victims of our foreign policy is something for Americans to do. We as Americans have some small input into the process by which our taxes fund a genocide. And even if we don't, maybe famously "empathic" Joe Biden might spend a second thought on the morality of his actions.
As I told someone else- after Thích Quảng Đức's suicide by setting himself on fire, the Vietnam War raged on for 12 more years.
Based on that, this is, unfortunately, not going to have any effect.
Oh I'm sorry that self-immolation isn't a magic "stop" button and movements and social change take time to play out. Claiming it was inconsequential is just fucking insanely ahistorical. Next up, "Rosa Parks' protest had no effect on the Civil Rights movement because it took 9 years for the Civil Rights Act to be signed".
I would say that's a little different from a president saying it was a turning point and then the guy who followed him massively escalated the war.
If Rosa Parks did her protest, Kennedy never got the Civil Rights Act passed and Nixon went back to encouraging segregation until he had not choice but to promote civil rights, that would be an apt comparison.
Nope, they're both stupidly ahistorical statements to make. Ending the war wasn't even the target of the protest, just an arbitrary end result you say wasn't achieved quickly enough.
So neither of these people set themselves on fire with the goal of ending a war?
It's loud about the strength of this guy's conviction but it provides no actual argument or information. I don't think it's cause to change one's opinion about Biden's foreign policy one way or another. In fact, I'd go further and say that it probably should be ignored as much as possible in order to avoid motivating other people to do the same thing.
I disagree. Fairly certain it got politicians attention. When your own soldiers are standing outside of your house setting themselves on fire it’s probably best to pay attention to the message.
It wasn't "soldiers", it was one guy. One person who wasted their life, instead of lobbying for what they wanted.
Now he'll never get to vote, donate, or campaign for what he believed in. He actually hurt his cause in the long run.
"No dumb bastard ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb bastard die for his country."
-- General George S. Patton
What if he felt those things were less effective than self-immolation? Because I certainly do.
You change your vote based on people killing themselves? Like if you are pro-choice and a pro-life person killed themselves, you would change your mind? Do you look up stats on the number of people on both sides who kill themselves and compare them? Do you think suicidal people are a good basis for a system of government?
If you do any of those things, you are not a normal voter. Voters do not care about that at all. It grabs attention, but just talking to your friend about who you're voting for is much more persuasive. If you kill yourself people rightfully think you have mental issues.
You’re going out of your way to misunderstand this.
This can sway my vote and yes, things that people are willing to give their lives for are very compelling to me.
I'm not allowed to change who I vote for in this system.
"Imo, this is there should be no speech louder than this"
I really don't know what you were trying to say there, but you managed to fuck it up so badly it makes no sense.
That's an awfully rude response to not being able to extrapolate this from the quoted bit:
"A man felt so deeply that this was wrong, and so powerless to get the attention of anyone who could even consider doing anything to help, that he doused himself in gasoline and burned himself to death in public, leaving behind his family and everything he cared about. Maybe people should pay attention to such a strongly sent message, and consider whether there are valid reasons that someone might feel so strongly about this topic."
It's horrible that someone feels this situation is so dire that they need to resort to this.
However, I also don't know that this will achieve anything any more than it did in Vietnam.
What? The photograph of Thích Quảng Đức was hailed by JFK as one of the most influential photographs in history and a turning point in Vietnam.
The Vietnam War ended 12 years after he did that. I wouldn't call that a success.
The article showing a (sanitized) picture of the consulate with police standing around is something of a disservice to the man who sacrificed himself to make a statement.
They meant it to be a disservice.
Rest in Power. I pray we can somehow ensure your actions aren't in vain.
Poor guy. I admire his courage and conviction to protest this genocide, and I cannot imagine how painful that must have been.
Aaron Bushnell is a hero and understood what is at stake. I wish people stop trying to downplay his actions as being mentally ill.
I've seen people on Reddit blaming "leftist circlejerk holes" for "radicalizing" him (apparently Aaron had a Reddit account)
I felt the urge to get off Reddit more than ever.
I'm reading your comment right now as a lifelong reddit guy abandoning the site for here because of that. Hi
Jan Palach self immolated in Prague to protest the invasion of Soviet forces at the end of the Prague Spring.. there are monuments to him around the city. It seems lighting youself on fire aint what it used to be
Protesting Russian war crimes means you are a hero and should be remembered forever.
Protesting Western war crimes means you are a mentally ill tankie and need to get off Twitter.
his last words were:
"My name is Aaron Bushnell. I am an active duty member of the United States Air Force, and I will no longer be complicit in genocide. I'm about to engage in an extreme act of protest, but compared to what people have been experiencing in Palestine at the hands of their colonizers, it's not extreme at all. This is what our ruling class has decided will be normal... FREE PALESTINE!"
"As a tactic, self-immolation expresses a logic similar to the premise of the hunger strike. The protester treats himself or herself as a hostage, attempting to use his or her willingness to die to pressure the authorities. This strategy presumes that the authorities are concerned with the protester’s well-being in the first place.
It is not willingness to die that will sway our rulers. They really fear our lives, not our deaths—they fear our willingness to act collectively according to a different logic, actively interrupting their order."
CrimethInc
If you pull that trigger, Takeshi, it doesn't all go away. Just you.
-Quellcrist Falconer
I think it is done to pressure the regular people to overthrow the government. Showing how important the issue is and how much he sacrificed himself just to motivate people, that everybody else can sacrifice far less by risking arrest overthrowing the government.
Yo where is that quote from? Like is that a tv show, movie, philosopher?
Altered Carbon.
Very much worth a watch IMO
Free Palestine. RIP Aaron Bushnell.
RIP, I respect his anti war ideology but people shouldn’t be hurting themselves to make a point. I highly doubt this is going to make the impact he thought it was going to do. He might have had mental health issues and felt suicidal.
This form of protest goes back a long way - famously by Buddhist monks during the Vietnam war.
It’s also very similar to hunger strikes, in my opinion. There was Bobby Sands and his comrades, of course. There were hunger strikes protesting the brutal conditions at Guantanamo Bay, resulting in force feeding techniques condemned as torture by the international community.
Do all of the people performing acts of self harm in protest to bring attention to a situation they consider intolerable suffer from mental health issues? Do people who join the Marines and put their lives at risk in the infantry because they think they’re “defending their country” have mental health issues? Do drone pilots, who in no way put themselves at risk of harm but who absolutely and knowingly end up killing arbitrary civilians have mental health issues?
If you ask me, I’d say yes to all of those. I’d say the same about politicians who pass laws to ban medical care to patients, and I’d say the same about the people who vote for them.
So people protesting via self-immolation, protesting via hunger strike, joining the military in a role that risks death are suicidal. People joining the military in a way that causes death, or who pass legislation that causes death, or who elect politicians who pass legislation that causes death are homicidal.
What should we do about all of that?
Self immolation started the Arab Spring.
Sure made a hell of an impact on me.
But he live-streamed it and said his name. He is Aaron Bushnell, a brave man who knew he wouldn’t survive the protest he felt he needed to carry out.
I cried when I watched the video. The man inhaling lungfuls of flame and smoke to chant “Free Palestine!” was painful. I hope his family may find some small comfort in the pride they should feel for his courage.
It will be all for nothing if the people don't unite in demanding that US stops supporting genocide and if they have to, go to the streets and stop this war crime by force.
No, it won't be nothing. It will always be something. Ineffective, perhaps. Ignored, maybe.
But it's always something when someone tortures themselves to death for a reason.
Don't assume it means nothing just because it doesn't result in what you want.
Comfort? Their loved one is dead. And for what? It would be hypocritical of me to disagree with monks doing it.
All these comments are so okay with it. Like oh well, it was for a good cause! No it fucking ain't? This is some fucked up glorification of martyrs when in reality, all we accomplished is more pain. His family won't recover from this, ever.
But hey! All Israel has to do is stop the offensive and all will be dandy! Oh? Ignore those daily non stop dumb fired missiles and if they attack again? Oh well. What's another 1000 people killed or raped?
I'm sick of people pretending this is an easy fix. As long as hamas exist, Israel won't stop. Cease fire fixes nothing. But no one here sees past the tip of their nose. Same people were chanting to allow immigrants in because we fucked them up decades ago, because the system can take it! And now will complain about the state of the country, the shortages of food... I have a friend advocating for supplying Africa with means to farm instead of investing into our own farming so we can buy the food from Africa since we can afford it!
I'm just so tired of stupid people. Absolutely zero foresight and jump at first upvoted comment like it's gospel.
You’re acting like there’s no middle ground between “do nothing” and “murder many thousands of Palestinian women and children (and men who have nothing to do with Hamas).”
Collective punishment is a war crime. Bombing indiscriminately, sniping EMTs and 6-year-old girls, killing people waving white flags with their hands raised just trying to help their families evacuate, telling people to leave their homes with barely any notice and then bombing not only their homes but also the places they told them to evacuate to?
These are not the behaviors of a nation concerned with self-defense. These are the behaviors of a nation trying to eliminate a population.
And all this does is create more extremism. If you managed to survive your family being killed and your home blown up, your entire life being destroyed, when you and your family were just trying to peacefully live your lives, I imagine you’d find it difficult not to wish for the deaths of your oppressors.
Cease fire stops the bleeding. If we’re being charitable and we decide to take Israel’s obvious bullshit at face value, a ceasefire lets them re-evaluate their targets and lets their intelligence have a chance to actually find Hamas rather than indiscriminately murdering an order of magnitude more civilians than Hamas did. And if we’re not being charitable, a ceasefire makes them stop murdering civilians in revenge for a terrorist attack.
You're right, I let "better" be the enemy of a perfect solution which likely doesn't exist in this mess.
Gaza is going to be beyond alienated, if hamas strikes again and they will... The next follow up will be absolute.
Situation is fucked no matter how I look at it. But cease fire would buy Gaza more time, Hamas will strike again and then the wrath is going to be 10x worse. Do you agree or is that too pessimistic?
I appreciate your time to spell it out like that, that did strike home.
This young gentleman could have done more good being alive and continued his message than an instant death stunt.
We should not encourage others to commit suicide by making this man into a martyr. Regardless of the horrors being committed in Gaza, it is important to not glorify this type of protest. Suicide contagion is a real, documented, and dangerous phenomenon.
Self immolation protest should be reserved for deaf ears and as a very last resort. This guy did not need to do this as everyone knows this is a bloody genocide whether you're for it or not. The lines have already been set and his death won't invoke any change of mind.
No idea why your comment has been downvoted. I dare downvoters to self-immolate themselves if they think they have balls to protest like this.
With all due respect, FUCK that. A man gave his life to send a message. I will honor him and his courage, and I will meditate on his message as a way of honoring him.
Nah, FUCK the mindset that suicide is noble.
So someone going out on their own terms is wise to you than a genocide. Gotcha.
...Well good. Living through stuff like that is awful.
🫡
Has anyone else noticed a surge in social media posts using history stories about US teenagers under the ago of 18 that signed up for military service illegally, but the stories have these folkloric and heroic side that we never afford child soldiers of other nations and conflicts ?
So weird.
No but I'm not sure where I would consume such content. Is that Facebook or something?
Undoubtedly this man suffered from mental health issues, that were only exacerbated by social media echocambers. Please remember that other users dont care about your well being. r/acebush1 You can see by his post history, what kind of mental state he was in before this happened.
Now if the other 30 mil military personnel all over the world follow this man's example civilians in Palestine and everywhere could, at last, live in peace
That is a nice way to say you want the equivalent of the population of Texas to die.
The equivalent population of Tejas that supports and brutally murders for a terorristic warmongering nation? Hell yeah.
Honestly I don't understand this thing of thing. If you are so for freeing Palestine, or against Israel, and limited to being one person, wouldn't it make more sense / do more overall good if you can take down at least one israeli with you? Instead of burning down alone.
Frankly, it barely counts as a symbolic gesture.
I think most Americans have lost their empathy and this type of commentary right here highlights it.
Ignoring empathy, the fuck is one dude killing himself supposed to achieve?
Change the mind of the ultra wealthy influencing the decisions whether or not the US involves itself? They don't give a fuck if some random military dude dies. It's what they want. War makes a lot of people a lot of money.
The goal is to create public discourse around the topic would be my understanding. Again. You are hating on him for picking an avenue and doing it. What have you done other than argue against his actions?
Not killed myself, that's for sure lol.
Also. One does not simply ignore empathy. That would make you a sociopath so thinking in that mindset is insane to me.
Most Americans believe everyone else in the world is also American and views thing with skewed American morals, and this type of comment right here highlights it.
No, bro, you can't magic-mirror this kind of criticism.
Take down one israeli ? so, which one ?
Dunno. The most feasible one / one within reach? There must have been some Israeli there, it was literally their embassy.
Unless the move was more pre-planned, it would have to come to a split second decision I guess.
How could he genocide himself like that?
Genocide is the destruction of a group of people, not just one. He didn't genocide himself.
Sorry, it's used incorrectly so much that I've forgotten what it means.
EVERYONE STOP SYMPATHIZING WITH THIS MAN HE WAS INSANE AND VILE PERSON he celebrated the death of 3 US service members. he also celebrated the massacre at the party
Even if your comment is truthful, you come across as hysterical and insane.
Doesn't matter to Biden.
I do t even think a general strike would make him stop supporting genocide.
Hed watch America burn if it meant he got to watch Palestinians burn alive as well.
Biden doesn't represent Dem voters. And it's going to hurt him in November, maybe even so much that trump wins again.
Why can't we just stop running these shitty candidates who are a coin flip away from losing to the worst candidate to ever hold the office of president?
It seems like the entire world is caught in this trap. On one side you've got actual fascists, and on the other you have feckless liberals who can't seem to get it through their heads that this isn't the 90s anymore.
They're neoliberals, not liberals.
It's James Carville followers who want Reaganomics and Bill Clinton social stances.
Which is better than what republicans want, but in any sane political system, they'd be the right wing option in 2024.
Even if neoliberals got 100% of what they wanted, we'd still be fucked.
Which is why 1/3 of people don't vote, even when modern Dems hold the presidency, House, and Senate; it's still not enough to fix the majority of our issues.
DNC says no. We must be happy with the pseudo Republicans they put forward