Whelp, I've got cancer. It's the second time I've had it. About 9 months ago I was told the docs would treat me but I probably wouldn't make it.
Its been a hell of a time.
It's a blood cancer so at the moment I look normal from the outside. I've changed a lot though, in the sense that I've become more me.
I don't give a shit about anything except for spending time with people I like. I especially don't care about money or work.
It (death) is taking a lot longer to happen than I thought it would.
The real trip has been seeing other people's reactions; I accepted it early on but other people have had very different reactions. Mostly I think they just don't know how to react, or they don't think it will actually happen, or both.
I don't think the human mind is capable of understanding the concepts of "eternity" or "oblivion" very well.
I do believe in God but it's still scary.
Its the everyday things that catch you off guard; the other day I was wondering when the next soccer world cup would be, then I realised I probably wouldn't be around for it.
I think when I finally die it will be a relief from all the physical pain.
I had to watch my dad's being and body melt over 12 months dying of Glioblastoma.
And people just don't get that.
4 years ago next week marks my mom's diagnosis and the 10 months that followed. Watching your loved ones go slowly insane and become unable to speak and move in such a short time (she was mid 50s) when they should be healthy changes you. Everything I look at, everything I think about is now looked at under a different lense. And given my age, there just aren't a lot of people around me who have any idea what it's like and assume it's just handling the pain.
Like... no. I'm different now.
Sorry you had to go through that. I hope you've been able to use that experience to make the most of life.
Luckily I have a good therapist.
Who lost his sister to it.
Doesn't help that my brother also died of a heroin overdose (just 5 months before diagnosis ).
My mom moved away after Dad died to live near her sister... Which I understand. But dam I feel abandoned.
Also sometime in between I got a fibromyalgia diagnosis. So in also grieving my old life/body. Bleh. Hugs 🫂
Damn you've had it hard. I hope you find some joy in life, you deserve it.
I often think that as my body wastes away it will be a lot harder for the people around me than it will be for me.
They will have to watch it happen knowing they can't help, whereas once I'm gone I won't have to deal with the sadness and aftermath.
Sorry you had to deal with that.
Fucking hell dude, I wish you all the best there is and to enjoy the ride to the fullest while it lasts, which I hope it does for a long time.
Thanks :)
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this, it sounds like you have as great an attitude about it as possible though. If it’s too personal don’t feel obligated to answer, but I’m genuinely curious how you accepted it? Since my dad passed away several years ago I’ve become intensely afraid of dying. Like to the point I know I need to talk to someone about it. But I’d be really interested to hear your thoughts/ journey there
It's a tough question to answer, as it has been a very long and winding road, as they say.
I've had chronic health issues for most of my life, so thinking about dying isn't new. Plus I've even had cancer before, so I really thought about it then.
I think time is the main factor. Just sitting with the idea, being comfortable with it, not struggling against it, recognising that it happens to us all, some sooner than others, and that's OK.
When I feel upset or anxious about death I don't push it away, I focus on my breathing and tell myself that not only is it totally OK to feel this way, but it's completely normal. I imagine that I'm swimming in the ocean and a wave has lifted me up. I don't need to do anything, just relax and the wave will pass through me, and I'll still be there afterwards.
Early on into my relapse I got high (weed) and my brain took me to this place where I imagined life without me in it. Kind of like a ghost, watching everyone react before slowly getting back into their daily lives. I cried a lot that night but since then I've been a lot calmer and accepting of it.
Yes, people will be sad but they will ultimately be OK. Everything will continue as normal once I'm gone, and that's a good thing.
Today is the shitty anniversary of my brothers death from AML. He was sick for 3 years and its was good at times and then really hard.
He was already one of the most philosophical people I knew when he got sick. Social Security allowed him to have the time with his friends and family when he was deemed unable to work which really helped the whole process.
We got to drive across the US for the eclipse which happened during his last spell of better health (it was an upswing after a marrow transplant that ultimately failed). I’m taking my 6 year old and wife wherever we need to too see the eclipse this April. So I can show my son what his uncle and I saw right before he was born.
Damn bro thats rough af. Glad ur spending time with the people u love and hopfully u can set them up for success.
I was in the hospital in January following a heart attack.
I woke up one morning and was on my phone when the nurse came in.
"Were you asleep about an hour ago?"
"Yeah, why?"
"Your heart stopped for 8 seconds."
". . . Uh, thanks? I guess? I'm not sure what you want me to do with that information."
Never knew it happened.
And they're just checking on you an hour later?! Wow thanks.
Apparently it alerted at the nurses station but didn't set off any alarms in the room... or so I was told... I mean, I WAS asleep...
Death by massive head injury is not a bad way to go. I remember a sunny morning, heading to the bank a mile from my house to deposit my paycheck, and riding towards work. I merged behind a Jeep Grand Cherokee to pass an idiot that was double parked in the bike lane. It was down hill and I easily topped 35 mph to match speed with the Jeep. That is the last thing I remember. Like it was all totally blank and even worse than anesthesia level blackout.
Three hours later, someone pulled a large piece of glass out of my face that severed major nerve in my lip. That woke me up.
That is how I want to go; a pretty day on a nice bike ride, feeling fantastic, then totally blank.
In reality, I was lucid the whole time apparently, or so I was told. I honestly do not have ANY memory of it whatsoever. If you know of anyone that dies tragically with a major head injury, I want you to think of me. Even if they appeared conscious or aware but disoriented, that wasn't the last thing they felt or remembered, I promise, I've lived it; only barely survived it. I still don't remember a thing.
Consciousness and memory both require communication between different regions of the brain. It's entirely possible that you were "alert' amd responsive while still suffering a brain injury that prevented you from remembering any part of it.
Anesthesia scares me for similar reasons. It halts the communication between different brain regions, and we know that people have no memories while under general Anesthesia, but are they lying there unable to move, suffering extreme agony throughout the surgery, and just unable to remember it afterwards?
Death itself isn’t necessarily the worst part of dying. In many ways, it’s the most merciful part, that can free a person of their suffering.
I took care of my Dad for some years before he passed away, after it became apparent that he was losing his mental faculties and having physical problems after he had had a stroke. It was a slow & steady decline, month after month, just seeing him lose the ability to do regular, basic things.
At some point, his personality died and the person I knew was gone long before the physical body died. He turned into a zombie of sorts, just wanting cigarettes & soda, those were the only things he wanted anymore to the exclusion of everything else. I felt powerless to do anything about it, I helped him as best I could, but years of him smoking and eating/drinking like crap had caught up with him finally.
Death can come to anyone at any time and unless you live to be 150 years old it will always seem like you didn't get enough time, so it's best not to worry about it.
I'm in a line of work where I see death very very often.
I don't know what I've learned from it. Besides that it's coming. I also know there are things worse than death. Often, in the end, people/families can't accept it, and they end up uselessly suffering.
I suspect the suffering is often compounded by certain cultural beliefs and practices, that (arguably) have less healthy outlooks on death or approaches to grieving. Western countries rooted in puritanical belief systems immediately come to mind.
Absolutely. Especially those who believe in miracles.
A dead body doesn’t look real. The stillness and one’s denial mechanisms combine to make it look like a mannequin.
Also, if the person has a protracted fight with a disease or simply old age (ie anything that isn't a sudden death) they rarely look like themselves. One elderly family member had an open casket and I could barely recognize them, they wasted away to half of their normal size.
When my mother went she had an aggressive immune therapy to fight lymphoma. That's what actually killed her. Ended up looking like 3rd degree burns all over, unconscious and shivering... didn't look like her.
I used to think I wanted whatever possible done to keep me alive. Use the machines, keep me in the coma for years, what have you. Maybe someday they’ll fix me.
My grandmother had a pretty massive stroke. She had some sort of living will, Do Not Resuscitate, something like that, but none of the family could really bring themselves to enforce that so they put a temporary feeding tube in and I think when that reached its limit switched to a more permanent variety.
I can’t remember if she woke up before or after the second feeding tube, but she did wake up in just a couple days; the stroke happened on a Friday and she was definitely awake the next week. She said she was glad they did the feeding tube.
However, while she was still able to talk pretty well, she lost her ability to swallow. Not only could she not eat anything and had to stay on the feeding tube, she couldn’t even drink anything or she risked it going into her lungs. Every time she felt her throat get dry she had to have a nurse with a wet sponge come moisten her throat. They tried electroshock therapy, but it never helped. She described it as the worst torture she’d ever felt and wouldn’t wish it on her worst enemy, but continued trying it because there wasn’t any other alternative from the doctors and it’s really hard to live and not be able to swallow.
She spent months like this, back and forth between the hospital and rehab/nursing centers, doing better but then getting sick in the homes and having to go back to the higher care of the hospital. She never returned to her own home except for a couple hours when one of her sons took her just to see it. In the end one of those times in a nursing home she got sick and started vomiting, some of which went in her lungs and led to her death in just a day or two. All those preceding months of suffering seemed like a waste, just delaying the inevitable.
I don’t want everything possible done to keep me alive anymore. I don’t want to die, but sometimes there are worse things than dying.
I live in the Midwest, right on the edge of tornado alley. When the sirens go off there's three kind of people. People who do the right thing and go hide in the basement or the bathroom or whatever. People who just completely ignore them and keep doing whatever. And then the dip shit rednecks who run outside like 'IMMA SEE ME A TORNADER'
I bounce between option two and three depending on my mood. One time this happened and a tornado actually started to form directly above me. Three times in a row it started to come down and then crap out.
What really surprised me the most was my reaction was a calm 'huh. So this is it...' Didn't try to run. Didn't even move, and not in a frozen in fear way.
And i guess what I learned is I'm ready when the time comes.
Stop worrying about the news, turn it off, and spend more time with family and friends.
Also, stop spending your time on lemmy, right?
Lemmy is family and friends.
"All you get is today
try to see it that way
don't hold on too tight
Loosen your shoes
don't listen to news
that keeps you up a night
Don't try to explain
try not to complain
no one really cares.
And don't try to find
your place in line
'Cause it's everywhere."
Thanks for sharing that video. What a true artist, beautiful song. Lots of heart and experience.
Here & now, here & now, here & now, I chant in my head as that's all we have.
Never take the people you love for granted. Don't wait on any deed or utterance that is unfulfilled, and know how fast they can go in a matter of minutes if you take your eyes off them. I made that mistake more than once. In the blink of an eye, life can go from 42 to 0.
Grief...doesn't motivate you. In movies, guys like me, people who have had loved ones killed through prejudices and big evil organizations 🐘 do something about it. Whether that's activism or something more illegal. But I was way more aggressive about my political views before my girlfriend died. Now it's like...I can't muster up the ability to give enough of a shit to do more than vote.
Grief affects people differently. I'm not going to go to into what happened to me, but it definitely motivated me and I've been a camp counselor (week long camp counselor, not a licensed or practiced one). I've seen a mix of (mostly) kids but still some adults during my volunteering. Rule one is still "you don't know how they're going to take it".
That god isn't real and religion is a lie. It has made me more of an atheist than I'd ever care to proclaim and even more interested in science.
It's a shame though, right? I wish they'd all be correct and there was an afterlife where we'd all live together forever in peace and harmony.
I've been the spiteful knowitall atheist for the longest time, but seriously... I wish I was wrong.
I hear you, I wish I believed in something, I’d give anything to know there’s an afterlife and I’ll see everyone again. I can’t force it though, wouldn’t work if it’s not an authentic belief. But man it sounds so comforting
I was in the waiting room for my friend when the surgeon came in and told us he had a week to live. The sound his family began to make was haunting and terrifying. It was a deep groaning and crying that I haven't heard since. It made my hairs stand up on end and it made me quake. There is nothing heavier than death.
Condolences for your friend.
That's how I cry, when I do cry. I can't help it. I hardly ever cry though I'd like to be able more because it's such a strong catharsis, but when I do it's like a very deep voiced whale trying to make air bubbles over and over. "Awhuuoooo oo oo oo aahhuuuooooo"
It usually only happens when there's a severe loss, my body takes control from my brain, accepts defeat, and starts wailing.
Coincidentally I had a cry a few days ago watching this: https://youtube.com/shorts/ixouwqK4_Ls - so many emotions piled into one scene, it's overwhelming.
No matter what, if you love somebody, tell them as often as you can. Say it every time you say goodbye. Don't let someone walk away when you've both said nasty, hurtful things. If you are putting off seeing someone, or calling someone, just do it.
You cant take ANY of that back. And you'll never forgive yourself.
Yeah but also remember the important thing is the totality of the relationship, not one thing you said in an angry instant. Yes we should try to always let the people we love know how much we love them and how important they are to us but also give ourselves grace for being human. I remember being 16 or 17 driving my dad to the airport for a flight and I was mad at him for something and when he got out of the car my heart sink to my stomach in fear that could be my last interaction. I reversed quickly, got out of the car and ran to hug him and said I was sorry, I didn’t want him to leave that way. He made a point then of explaining that what truly matters is the totality of the relationship, not the last angry thing I said that was a blip of our lives. He knew how much I loved him and how important our relationship was and didn’t question it despite us arguing. He taught me so many amazing things, I miss him so much (he passed away many years later).
I've only observed that it seems to be a relief, at the very end.
72. Strive ever to more! and if thou art truly mine -- and doubt it not, an if thou art ever joyous! -- death is the crown of all.
73. Ah! Ah! Death! Death! thou shalt long for death. Death is forbidden, o man, unto thee.
74. The length of thy longing shall be the strength of its glory. He that lives long & desires death much is ever the King among the Kings.
Excerpt, Liber AL vel Legis, Chapter II
The most important things in the world to you could be here one day, perfectly happy and healthy, and the next day gone. The weight of discovery and their limp body.
Every time I would see someone acting in movies I used to think, that’s a bit of an over reaction. No it’s not. When you see a movie and the reaction seems a bit over the top, it’s not.
Don't go too fast on roads you haven't ridden your motorcycle on before.
Though, a friend died on the same road after avoiding a pothole and striking a car, the trailer ran over his chest. He was teaching a new young rider the ropes and wasn't going fast. The pothole formed over the last few months he hadn't been up there. The local council denied it existed. We rode up and took a photo for the local news and a truck was there about to fill it in as we arrived. It was shallow but took almost half the lane on a blind corner.
Life is short.
If you have time to say goodbye, many insecurities fall by the wayside. If you don't have that opportunity, you'll carry a load of "what-if" around and you'll consume plenty of your short time being concerned with it.
Death comes to everyone. Make the best life you can and try to laugh every day.
OP, you'll find that most people haven't experienced death, and the rare few that have, only for a very short time.
I haven't personally died yet, so no first person report. My dad died suddenly when I was 16, gently it seems; and my stepson by suicide, not at all gently. From these experiences I will say PLEASE try not to die before your parents do. It's sad to lose a parent but we all know it will happen. We recover. Losing a kid? No, I don't think anyone really recovers from that.
They don’t tend to recover but they do often move forward. It can be quite inspiring but I keep that to myself.
I've had an absurd amount of death in my life, double digits by the time I was 18. Every one of them I knew personally or was family. From a variety of ways. Accidents, suicides, sickness, drugs.
What I learned from this is that, its gonna happen. Life as a whole isn't all that special to the world or to the universe. But your experiences and everything you put value in, is.
At this point, death is more like (in my eyes) someone taking a trip and I just gotta say Goodbye and hope they do well because they won't be able to talk to me anymore. Remember the good stuff and why you liked em, and move on. Because it's gonna happen to you and others in your life too and if you dwell too long you won't be able to remember the people around you now and why you liked them too.
Nothing is a bigger regret than trying so hard to cling to someone out of reach that you never held on to those reaching for you
I don't know if this counts but it's the closest I've been to death.
I had an accidental breakthrough on DMT. I don't even remember what happened during that 12 minutes except brief things that came to me in daydreams and night dreams afterwards. But before I did it, I was suicidal and ready to die. When my consciousness came back I was no longer the same person. I felt like I had just lived 1,000 years. I immediately felt like the world was no longer on my shoulders, and I involuntary started screaming about how much love there is in the universe. Before that, I had struggled with the concept of unconditional love. I used to have daily suicidal ideation, typically multiple times daily, but I have only experienced ideation a few times since then. Over a decade ago.
At one point in time I was inundated with death. Due to the fentanyl epidemic and other mental health and drug related issues, I've watched many friends die. Thankfully I'm in a much better place now, I'm no longer in that place I was hiding from myself before that day. Whatever death is, whatever reality is, I no longer fear it. I fear not being able to provide for my wife and children after I'm gone, but that's it.
To answer the accidental breakthrough question before it comes up: I was sniffing DMT fumurate (nasally active) at doses around 20-50mg, walking around my house, looking at the static dewwy webs of light, walking over them, under them, trying to hold them. I was so intrigued by the lack of movement of the visuals, where with other psychedelics you can blink or shift your eyes and it goes away. I did a few larger lines in a row and my vision started to bend and fold in on itself and I instinctually laid down in my bed.
That it's normally never quick and painless and that it can happen at any time.
You could just be walking down the street and trip and fall into the road or smack your head off something or have a heart attack/stroke/aneurism.
One missed second with hitting the brakes in your car. One misstep. One mistake. Hell you can even be doing everything right and still get caught in something that leads to your death.
It's difficult to summarize into words, and English because many of the ideas and experiences of the post-life world transcend easy explanation, but here goes nothing (and I'm fine with being judged/downvoted, most of this will seem like nonsense to casual readers):
The goals, priorities, duties, missions, and dreams you have, what you value, and believe to be important -- isn't.
A. Approximately 180 seconds after you accept you're not recovering from your imminent death, you are immediately pardoned from all duties, debts, goals and otherwise.
B. Basically everything you'd been worried about, stops worrying or bothering you. Your name is off the high score board, permanently, so to speak.
Cognition is dependent on physicality.
A. The way that humans experience reality depends on their sensory organs, brain, and various other instruments to create a quasi coherent image of the world.
B. The raw state of being, is absolute chaos. It defies description. Hegel tried his best to put it into words but he also failed. Time is non-linear. Nothing makes any sense. Dimensions don't exist. Quantum physics barely scrapes the surface of what's going on.
Consciousness is independent of physicality.
A. Almost immediately after the ripping and dissolution of the corporeal body, after the dynamic system that used to be you, no longer exists, it is no longer dynamic, or on the material plane - life continues. You perceive. You persist. You think. It makes zero sense, but the universe is under absolutely no obligation to explain itself to you, or make sense.
Everything in Section Four unfortunately lacks the appropriate language, or terminology to sufficiently describe and so must be experienced by each person individually. Everyone is owed this. Sorry. No spoilers.
One of the interesting takeaways of depression for me is just how much conciousness is dependent on physicality lol. The brain is like if an LLM existed physically, rather than in software. Your... you is a direct result of the physical structure and anything that disrupts that, even subtly, will have profound effects on who you are.
How to accept and let go of someone. I lost my dad very early in my life. It was sad, and unexpected, and to this day it does feel like I lack a father figure (hope this doesn't sound weird, English isn't my first language). But, I realize, there's no use excessive crying over someone's death. It's not like I can change anything about that. I learned quickly it's better to leave the past and move on.
If you ask me whether I miss him or not, I do miss him. But, really, it's not something I can control.
Anyone here sad lonly and dying with a huge fortune they would like to donate to the charitable foundation called me. I cant promise ill change the world but i can promise i try my godamn hardest to do so.
Protect my doggo. She is stupid.
Life is random, and meanness and cold. No matter who you are, death comes with no bias. You have to make life worth living in the now because I have seen the regret and pain in the eyes of the dying far too many times. Also be nice to your kids.
That consciousness is eternal. That each of us will live until the end of the universe and possibly beyond. Alone.
We are the universe experiencing itself
Oh, I just had a near death experience! Ran a stop and almost got hit by a bus; would've hit me right on the ribs! I've had another crash before where a powerline pole fell over my car, right next to my head.
My experience? Life didn't flash before my eyes. I was just very scared at the moment, and was anxious and upset for a few hours after. It's definitely going to change how carefully I drive moving forward.
Otherwise, I've seen a lot of patients sick, dying or terminally ill, working as a physician. It definitely affected the way I see life; I try to care less about what other people think I should be doing and instead act in a way I think is right. I am happy and satisfied that if I die I will be thought of fondly by most people I've interacted with.
I witnessed the deaths of Edd Gould and Steve Jobs before Zombie Land Saga subverted my last experience with characters being dead by zombifying the dead and conjuring them up.
I don’t find that possible in real life now that Akira Toriyama has passed on and death is permanent.
WHY IS NO ONE PAYING ATTENTION?!
I didn't even know I died. I just... woke up. I'm so happy to be depressed and to admit my faults and to make my friends laugh. There is a Multiverse where I don't do that.
letting your hamster ball roll down the stairs isn’t good
My experiences with death has cured me of any atheist delusions. There's a damn good reason they say, "there are no atheists in foxholes." It's not about whether you believe this or that to be real or not real - that is irrelevant - it's about what matters in those horrible moments people experience true mortality before they go. It's not pretty like they pretend it to be in the movies, and armchair philosophizing doesn't mean squat to people then.
No offense, but "No atheists in foxholes" ONLY makes sense to religious people... why would an atheist pray to something he/she doesn't believe in? Do Christians pray to Muhammad or one of the thousands of other religions in foxholes? Of course not, because they don't believe in them... that's the point. If someone is doing that, they're at best agnostic.
And for the record, I've had one of my daughters literally die in my arms, it's a terrible experience, but it didn't convert me to some religion to try and make sense out of.
No offense,
None taken.
but “No atheists in foxholes” ONLY makes sense to religious people
I'm afraid not. I'm not religious at all - and it makes perfect sense to me.
why would an atheist pray to something he/she doesn’t believe in?
It's very easy to convince yourself that you've chosen to believe this or that when life is comfortable. It's peak individualism - and such delusions fall apart very fast when the trauma starts piling on. You don't have to believe me - believe the people who wrote the CIA's torture manuals.
It's called "regression" - if you were spoon-fed a certain religion as a child you will "regress" to that under extreme duress (amongst other, even worse, things). That's why they say, “there are no atheists in foxholes.”
if you were spoon-fed a certain religion as a child
And if you weren't? Probably hard to believe for most Americans but atheism isn't an invention of the current generations.
but atheism isn’t an invention of the current generations.
Of course it isn't.
And if you weren’t?
That's actually a very difficult thing... even someone who was raised in a non-religious home would be exposed to religion (and things worse than religion under our current circumstances) through social osmosis. Soooo... you'd have to find someone that was raised in a society that can be called atheist with a straight face.
So you're saying you'd pray to things you don't believe in when confronted with something traumatic?
This is all going straight over your head, isn't it?
I guess it must be "going over my head", because it makes no sense to me to pray to something that isn't there, unless you at least think there's at least a tiny chance there is... aka agnostic.
I also wouldn't pray to my toaster unless I thought at least there was the slightest chance it could hear me.
because it makes no sense
So everything in your life "makes sense"? How did you accomplish that?
I also wouldn’t pray to my toaster unless
I also wouldn't recommend praying to anything that comes with an on/off switch... though I am undecided about threatening them with banishment to a landfill.
I never said everything in life makes sense, just that praying to something you don't think is real doesn't.
Obviously you believe in some form of higher power, so it makes sense that you would pray to it. But you wouldn't pray to something you don't at least think has a chance of existing, why would you think an atheist would?
just that praying to something you don’t think is real doesn’t.
Why is your thinking about this so narrow? What makes you think this is simply about praying?
Btw - this is why triggering atheists is so much more fun than triggering believers... you're more narrow-minded than they are.
Obviously you believe in some form of higher power,
There are lots of "higher powers" around - though I wouldn't say I believe in any of them. They seem to get on just fine wiothout my belief.
so it makes sense that you would pray to it.
Pray to power? That's a new one to me.
I'm not "triggered," I was trying to have a conversation in good faith but obviously that wasn't your intention. Think whatever you'd like, I was pointing out how your first statement was wrong about that weird "foxhole" thing.
I was trying to have a conversation in good faith
So far, only one self-described atheist have attempted what you claim to have attempted - and, so far, that isn't you.
I will acknowledge, however, that, so far, you haven't flown off the handle like a lot of your fellow atheists yet - there's quite a lot of them really angry that their (alleged) rationality is not as guaranteed as they had assumed. Maybe you deserve a medal - considering that the bar is so damn low.
I was pointing out how your first statement was wrong
...and you still haven't - it still stands.
That's because I don't care that much what people think of me not having "belief." I will say my two cents, if someone want's to learn something from it that's great, if not, that's fine too... whether it's you or someone else reading this.
Anyway, have a good one.
Wow this is a stupid take. I was spoon fed Christianity, now I'm agnostic. I've experienced plenty of traumatic things and I haven't found myself praying to God in any of those.
Where did you get this is bs?
Where did you get this
I guess you missed this part?
You don’t have to believe me - believe the people who wrote the CIA’s torture manuals.
I suppose you were too busy convincing yourself that losing at video games qualify as "traumatic..."
You don't know me at all, dipshit. Congratulations for being the most insufferable Lemmy user I've ran into so far. I feel sorry for people that know you. That has to be traumatic.
You don’t know me at all
I agree. And I'd prefer to keep it that way.
most insufferable
Considering how easy it was to trigger you I find your claim of any kind of actual life experience quite dubious.
You make an awful lot of assumptions. Keep being a basement keyboard warrior, loser.
Keep being a basement keyboard warrior, loser.
ROFLMAO! Says the person who named themselves "Cold_Brew_Enema!"
People react differently, sure, some will call out to some higher power even if they don't believe, if these call-outs are part of their vocabulary. I certainly say "oh god" a lot, even though I'm a very vocal anti-theist and strong atheist. But they do not necessarily beg a higher power to safe them because they actually believe, but because in distress reaching for help is human instinct and our theism infused culture conditions us towards "god" in such situations.
I'm not proud of it, but in distress I did call to god for help. But hey, I was 11 years old and just had my fingers crushed to paste, I was in shock and not thinking and at no point did I actually expect help.
None of that is belief, as soon as peoole regain their senses, they discard it. Just like wounded soldiers on a battlefield don't actually expect their mothers to show up and safe them, yet still call out to them.
Belief needs conviction and irrational panic behavior tells us nothing about conviction but a lot about ingrained childhood experience and familial as well as societal indoctrination.
I’m not proud of it, but in distress I did call to god for help
Doesn't sound like the actions of a "strong atheist" (if such a thing can or should even exist) to me... just sounds like bog-standard human behavior.
But hey, I was 11 years old
But you've left all of that behind, right? You're a big, strong, rational main character now that will never be put into such a vulnerable situation ever again, right?
None of that is belief,
Perhaps it is and perhaps it isn't - and that probably isn't even relevant.
as soon as peoole regain their senses, they discard it.
When I cease to be hungry I stop eating - that doesn't mean I reject the concept of food.
Just like wounded soldiers on a battlefield don’t actually expect their mothers to show up and safe them, yet still call out to them.
In other words... atheist reasoning only works as long as everything is comfortable and non-threatening? It offers absolutely nothing to those in distress?
I'd say that's a big, gaping hole in said reasoning.
Belief needs conviction
So does non-belief, apparently. At least, that's what the narratives I hear from atheists seem to suggest.
You want a drink with all that straw, man?
Depends... is it big enough to fill the giant gap in atheist reasoning?
I am to my knowledge still alive, meaning that I don't have any experience with being dead.
Whelp, I've got cancer. It's the second time I've had it. About 9 months ago I was told the docs would treat me but I probably wouldn't make it.
Its been a hell of a time.
It's a blood cancer so at the moment I look normal from the outside. I've changed a lot though, in the sense that I've become more me.
I don't give a shit about anything except for spending time with people I like. I especially don't care about money or work.
It (death) is taking a lot longer to happen than I thought it would.
The real trip has been seeing other people's reactions; I accepted it early on but other people have had very different reactions. Mostly I think they just don't know how to react, or they don't think it will actually happen, or both.
I don't think the human mind is capable of understanding the concepts of "eternity" or "oblivion" very well.
I do believe in God but it's still scary.
Its the everyday things that catch you off guard; the other day I was wondering when the next soccer world cup would be, then I realised I probably wouldn't be around for it.
I think when I finally die it will be a relief from all the physical pain.
I had to watch my dad's being and body melt over 12 months dying of Glioblastoma.
And people just don't get that.
4 years ago next week marks my mom's diagnosis and the 10 months that followed. Watching your loved ones go slowly insane and become unable to speak and move in such a short time (she was mid 50s) when they should be healthy changes you. Everything I look at, everything I think about is now looked at under a different lense. And given my age, there just aren't a lot of people around me who have any idea what it's like and assume it's just handling the pain.
Like... no. I'm different now.
Sorry you had to go through that. I hope you've been able to use that experience to make the most of life.
Luckily I have a good therapist.
Who lost his sister to it.
Doesn't help that my brother also died of a heroin overdose (just 5 months before diagnosis ).
My mom moved away after Dad died to live near her sister... Which I understand. But dam I feel abandoned.
Also sometime in between I got a fibromyalgia diagnosis. So in also grieving my old life/body. Bleh. Hugs 🫂
Damn you've had it hard. I hope you find some joy in life, you deserve it.
I often think that as my body wastes away it will be a lot harder for the people around me than it will be for me.
They will have to watch it happen knowing they can't help, whereas once I'm gone I won't have to deal with the sadness and aftermath.
Sorry you had to deal with that.
Fucking hell dude, I wish you all the best there is and to enjoy the ride to the fullest while it lasts, which I hope it does for a long time.
Thanks :)
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this, it sounds like you have as great an attitude about it as possible though. If it’s too personal don’t feel obligated to answer, but I’m genuinely curious how you accepted it? Since my dad passed away several years ago I’ve become intensely afraid of dying. Like to the point I know I need to talk to someone about it. But I’d be really interested to hear your thoughts/ journey there
It's a tough question to answer, as it has been a very long and winding road, as they say.
I've had chronic health issues for most of my life, so thinking about dying isn't new. Plus I've even had cancer before, so I really thought about it then.
I think time is the main factor. Just sitting with the idea, being comfortable with it, not struggling against it, recognising that it happens to us all, some sooner than others, and that's OK.
When I feel upset or anxious about death I don't push it away, I focus on my breathing and tell myself that not only is it totally OK to feel this way, but it's completely normal. I imagine that I'm swimming in the ocean and a wave has lifted me up. I don't need to do anything, just relax and the wave will pass through me, and I'll still be there afterwards.
Early on into my relapse I got high (weed) and my brain took me to this place where I imagined life without me in it. Kind of like a ghost, watching everyone react before slowly getting back into their daily lives. I cried a lot that night but since then I've been a lot calmer and accepting of it.
Yes, people will be sad but they will ultimately be OK. Everything will continue as normal once I'm gone, and that's a good thing.
Today is the shitty anniversary of my brothers death from AML. He was sick for 3 years and its was good at times and then really hard.
He was already one of the most philosophical people I knew when he got sick. Social Security allowed him to have the time with his friends and family when he was deemed unable to work which really helped the whole process.
We got to drive across the US for the eclipse which happened during his last spell of better health (it was an upswing after a marrow transplant that ultimately failed). I’m taking my 6 year old and wife wherever we need to too see the eclipse this April. So I can show my son what his uncle and I saw right before he was born.
Damn bro thats rough af. Glad ur spending time with the people u love and hopfully u can set them up for success.
I was in the hospital in January following a heart attack.
I woke up one morning and was on my phone when the nurse came in.
"Were you asleep about an hour ago?"
"Yeah, why?"
"Your heart stopped for 8 seconds."
". . . Uh, thanks? I guess? I'm not sure what you want me to do with that information."
Never knew it happened.
And they're just checking on you an hour later?! Wow thanks.
Apparently it alerted at the nurses station but didn't set off any alarms in the room... or so I was told... I mean, I WAS asleep...
Death by massive head injury is not a bad way to go. I remember a sunny morning, heading to the bank a mile from my house to deposit my paycheck, and riding towards work. I merged behind a Jeep Grand Cherokee to pass an idiot that was double parked in the bike lane. It was down hill and I easily topped 35 mph to match speed with the Jeep. That is the last thing I remember. Like it was all totally blank and even worse than anesthesia level blackout.
Three hours later, someone pulled a large piece of glass out of my face that severed major nerve in my lip. That woke me up.
That is how I want to go; a pretty day on a nice bike ride, feeling fantastic, then totally blank.
In reality, I was lucid the whole time apparently, or so I was told. I honestly do not have ANY memory of it whatsoever. If you know of anyone that dies tragically with a major head injury, I want you to think of me. Even if they appeared conscious or aware but disoriented, that wasn't the last thing they felt or remembered, I promise, I've lived it; only barely survived it. I still don't remember a thing.
Consciousness and memory both require communication between different regions of the brain. It's entirely possible that you were "alert' amd responsive while still suffering a brain injury that prevented you from remembering any part of it.
Anesthesia scares me for similar reasons. It halts the communication between different brain regions, and we know that people have no memories while under general Anesthesia, but are they lying there unable to move, suffering extreme agony throughout the surgery, and just unable to remember it afterwards?
Death itself isn’t necessarily the worst part of dying. In many ways, it’s the most merciful part, that can free a person of their suffering.
I took care of my Dad for some years before he passed away, after it became apparent that he was losing his mental faculties and having physical problems after he had had a stroke. It was a slow & steady decline, month after month, just seeing him lose the ability to do regular, basic things.
At some point, his personality died and the person I knew was gone long before the physical body died. He turned into a zombie of sorts, just wanting cigarettes & soda, those were the only things he wanted anymore to the exclusion of everything else. I felt powerless to do anything about it, I helped him as best I could, but years of him smoking and eating/drinking like crap had caught up with him finally.
Death can come to anyone at any time and unless you live to be 150 years old it will always seem like you didn't get enough time, so it's best not to worry about it.
I'm in a line of work where I see death very very often.
I don't know what I've learned from it. Besides that it's coming. I also know there are things worse than death. Often, in the end, people/families can't accept it, and they end up uselessly suffering.
I suspect the suffering is often compounded by certain cultural beliefs and practices, that (arguably) have less healthy outlooks on death or approaches to grieving. Western countries rooted in puritanical belief systems immediately come to mind.
Absolutely. Especially those who believe in miracles.
A dead body doesn’t look real. The stillness and one’s denial mechanisms combine to make it look like a mannequin.
Also, if the person has a protracted fight with a disease or simply old age (ie anything that isn't a sudden death) they rarely look like themselves. One elderly family member had an open casket and I could barely recognize them, they wasted away to half of their normal size.
When my mother went she had an aggressive immune therapy to fight lymphoma. That's what actually killed her. Ended up looking like 3rd degree burns all over, unconscious and shivering... didn't look like her.
I used to think I wanted whatever possible done to keep me alive. Use the machines, keep me in the coma for years, what have you. Maybe someday they’ll fix me.
My grandmother had a pretty massive stroke. She had some sort of living will, Do Not Resuscitate, something like that, but none of the family could really bring themselves to enforce that so they put a temporary feeding tube in and I think when that reached its limit switched to a more permanent variety.
I can’t remember if she woke up before or after the second feeding tube, but she did wake up in just a couple days; the stroke happened on a Friday and she was definitely awake the next week. She said she was glad they did the feeding tube.
However, while she was still able to talk pretty well, she lost her ability to swallow. Not only could she not eat anything and had to stay on the feeding tube, she couldn’t even drink anything or she risked it going into her lungs. Every time she felt her throat get dry she had to have a nurse with a wet sponge come moisten her throat. They tried electroshock therapy, but it never helped. She described it as the worst torture she’d ever felt and wouldn’t wish it on her worst enemy, but continued trying it because there wasn’t any other alternative from the doctors and it’s really hard to live and not be able to swallow.
She spent months like this, back and forth between the hospital and rehab/nursing centers, doing better but then getting sick in the homes and having to go back to the higher care of the hospital. She never returned to her own home except for a couple hours when one of her sons took her just to see it. In the end one of those times in a nursing home she got sick and started vomiting, some of which went in her lungs and led to her death in just a day or two. All those preceding months of suffering seemed like a waste, just delaying the inevitable.
I don’t want everything possible done to keep me alive anymore. I don’t want to die, but sometimes there are worse things than dying.
I live in the Midwest, right on the edge of tornado alley. When the sirens go off there's three kind of people. People who do the right thing and go hide in the basement or the bathroom or whatever. People who just completely ignore them and keep doing whatever. And then the dip shit rednecks who run outside like 'IMMA SEE ME A TORNADER'
I bounce between option two and three depending on my mood. One time this happened and a tornado actually started to form directly above me. Three times in a row it started to come down and then crap out.
What really surprised me the most was my reaction was a calm 'huh. So this is it...' Didn't try to run. Didn't even move, and not in a frozen in fear way.
And i guess what I learned is I'm ready when the time comes.
Stop worrying about the news, turn it off, and spend more time with family and friends.
Also, stop spending your time on lemmy, right?
Lemmy is family and friends.
"All you get is today
try to see it that way
don't hold on too tight
Loosen your shoes
don't listen to news
that keeps you up a night
Don't try to explain
try not to complain
no one really cares.
And don't try to find
your place in line
'Cause it's everywhere."
https://youtu.be/djzR7594I1U#t=3m33s
Thanks for sharing that video. What a true artist, beautiful song. Lots of heart and experience.
Here & now, here & now, here & now, I chant in my head as that's all we have.
Never take the people you love for granted. Don't wait on any deed or utterance that is unfulfilled, and know how fast they can go in a matter of minutes if you take your eyes off them. I made that mistake more than once. In the blink of an eye, life can go from 42 to 0.
Grief...doesn't motivate you. In movies, guys like me, people who have had loved ones killed through prejudices and big evil organizations 🐘 do something about it. Whether that's activism or something more illegal. But I was way more aggressive about my political views before my girlfriend died. Now it's like...I can't muster up the ability to give enough of a shit to do more than vote.
Grief affects people differently. I'm not going to go to into what happened to me, but it definitely motivated me and I've been a camp counselor (week long camp counselor, not a licensed or practiced one). I've seen a mix of (mostly) kids but still some adults during my volunteering. Rule one is still "you don't know how they're going to take it".
That god isn't real and religion is a lie. It has made me more of an atheist than I'd ever care to proclaim and even more interested in science.
It's a shame though, right? I wish they'd all be correct and there was an afterlife where we'd all live together forever in peace and harmony.
I've been the spiteful knowitall atheist for the longest time, but seriously... I wish I was wrong.
I hear you, I wish I believed in something, I’d give anything to know there’s an afterlife and I’ll see everyone again. I can’t force it though, wouldn’t work if it’s not an authentic belief. But man it sounds so comforting
I was in the waiting room for my friend when the surgeon came in and told us he had a week to live. The sound his family began to make was haunting and terrifying. It was a deep groaning and crying that I haven't heard since. It made my hairs stand up on end and it made me quake. There is nothing heavier than death.
Condolences for your friend.
That's how I cry, when I do cry. I can't help it. I hardly ever cry though I'd like to be able more because it's such a strong catharsis, but when I do it's like a very deep voiced whale trying to make air bubbles over and over. "Awhuuoooo oo oo oo aahhuuuooooo"
It usually only happens when there's a severe loss, my body takes control from my brain, accepts defeat, and starts wailing.
Coincidentally I had a cry a few days ago watching this: https://youtube.com/shorts/ixouwqK4_Ls - so many emotions piled into one scene, it's overwhelming.
No matter what, if you love somebody, tell them as often as you can. Say it every time you say goodbye. Don't let someone walk away when you've both said nasty, hurtful things. If you are putting off seeing someone, or calling someone, just do it.
You cant take ANY of that back. And you'll never forgive yourself.
Yeah but also remember the important thing is the totality of the relationship, not one thing you said in an angry instant. Yes we should try to always let the people we love know how much we love them and how important they are to us but also give ourselves grace for being human. I remember being 16 or 17 driving my dad to the airport for a flight and I was mad at him for something and when he got out of the car my heart sink to my stomach in fear that could be my last interaction. I reversed quickly, got out of the car and ran to hug him and said I was sorry, I didn’t want him to leave that way. He made a point then of explaining that what truly matters is the totality of the relationship, not the last angry thing I said that was a blip of our lives. He knew how much I loved him and how important our relationship was and didn’t question it despite us arguing. He taught me so many amazing things, I miss him so much (he passed away many years later).
I've only observed that it seems to be a relief, at the very end.
Excerpt, Liber AL vel Legis, Chapter II
The most important things in the world to you could be here one day, perfectly happy and healthy, and the next day gone. The weight of discovery and their limp body.
Every time I would see someone acting in movies I used to think, that’s a bit of an over reaction. No it’s not. When you see a movie and the reaction seems a bit over the top, it’s not.
Don't go too fast on roads you haven't ridden your motorcycle on before.
Though, a friend died on the same road after avoiding a pothole and striking a car, the trailer ran over his chest. He was teaching a new young rider the ropes and wasn't going fast. The pothole formed over the last few months he hadn't been up there. The local council denied it existed. We rode up and took a photo for the local news and a truck was there about to fill it in as we arrived. It was shallow but took almost half the lane on a blind corner.
Life is short.
If you have time to say goodbye, many insecurities fall by the wayside. If you don't have that opportunity, you'll carry a load of "what-if" around and you'll consume plenty of your short time being concerned with it.
Death comes to everyone. Make the best life you can and try to laugh every day.
OP, you'll find that most people haven't experienced death, and the rare few that have, only for a very short time.
I haven't personally died yet, so no first person report. My dad died suddenly when I was 16, gently it seems; and my stepson by suicide, not at all gently. From these experiences I will say PLEASE try not to die before your parents do. It's sad to lose a parent but we all know it will happen. We recover. Losing a kid? No, I don't think anyone really recovers from that.
They don’t tend to recover but they do often move forward. It can be quite inspiring but I keep that to myself.
I've had an absurd amount of death in my life, double digits by the time I was 18. Every one of them I knew personally or was family. From a variety of ways. Accidents, suicides, sickness, drugs.
What I learned from this is that, its gonna happen. Life as a whole isn't all that special to the world or to the universe. But your experiences and everything you put value in, is.
At this point, death is more like (in my eyes) someone taking a trip and I just gotta say Goodbye and hope they do well because they won't be able to talk to me anymore. Remember the good stuff and why you liked em, and move on. Because it's gonna happen to you and others in your life too and if you dwell too long you won't be able to remember the people around you now and why you liked them too.
Nothing is a bigger regret than trying so hard to cling to someone out of reach that you never held on to those reaching for you
I don't know if this counts but it's the closest I've been to death.
I had an accidental breakthrough on DMT. I don't even remember what happened during that 12 minutes except brief things that came to me in daydreams and night dreams afterwards. But before I did it, I was suicidal and ready to die. When my consciousness came back I was no longer the same person. I felt like I had just lived 1,000 years. I immediately felt like the world was no longer on my shoulders, and I involuntary started screaming about how much love there is in the universe. Before that, I had struggled with the concept of unconditional love. I used to have daily suicidal ideation, typically multiple times daily, but I have only experienced ideation a few times since then. Over a decade ago.
At one point in time I was inundated with death. Due to the fentanyl epidemic and other mental health and drug related issues, I've watched many friends die. Thankfully I'm in a much better place now, I'm no longer in that place I was hiding from myself before that day. Whatever death is, whatever reality is, I no longer fear it. I fear not being able to provide for my wife and children after I'm gone, but that's it.
To answer the accidental breakthrough question before it comes up: I was sniffing DMT fumurate (nasally active) at doses around 20-50mg, walking around my house, looking at the static dewwy webs of light, walking over them, under them, trying to hold them. I was so intrigued by the lack of movement of the visuals, where with other psychedelics you can blink or shift your eyes and it goes away. I did a few larger lines in a row and my vision started to bend and fold in on itself and I instinctually laid down in my bed.
That it's normally never quick and painless and that it can happen at any time.
You could just be walking down the street and trip and fall into the road or smack your head off something or have a heart attack/stroke/aneurism.
One missed second with hitting the brakes in your car. One misstep. One mistake. Hell you can even be doing everything right and still get caught in something that leads to your death.
It's difficult to summarize into words, and English because many of the ideas and experiences of the post-life world transcend easy explanation, but here goes nothing (and I'm fine with being judged/downvoted, most of this will seem like nonsense to casual readers):
A. Approximately 180 seconds after you accept you're not recovering from your imminent death, you are immediately pardoned from all duties, debts, goals and otherwise.
B. Basically everything you'd been worried about, stops worrying or bothering you. Your name is off the high score board, permanently, so to speak.
A. The way that humans experience reality depends on their sensory organs, brain, and various other instruments to create a quasi coherent image of the world.
B. The raw state of being, is absolute chaos. It defies description. Hegel tried his best to put it into words but he also failed. Time is non-linear. Nothing makes any sense. Dimensions don't exist. Quantum physics barely scrapes the surface of what's going on.
A. Almost immediately after the ripping and dissolution of the corporeal body, after the dynamic system that used to be you, no longer exists, it is no longer dynamic, or on the material plane - life continues. You perceive. You persist. You think. It makes zero sense, but the universe is under absolutely no obligation to explain itself to you, or make sense.
One of the interesting takeaways of depression for me is just how much conciousness is dependent on physicality lol. The brain is like if an LLM existed physically, rather than in software. Your... you is a direct result of the physical structure and anything that disrupts that, even subtly, will have profound effects on who you are.
How to accept and let go of someone. I lost my dad very early in my life. It was sad, and unexpected, and to this day it does feel like I lack a father figure (hope this doesn't sound weird, English isn't my first language). But, I realize, there's no use excessive crying over someone's death. It's not like I can change anything about that. I learned quickly it's better to leave the past and move on.
If you ask me whether I miss him or not, I do miss him. But, really, it's not something I can control.
Anyone here sad lonly and dying with a huge fortune they would like to donate to the charitable foundation called me. I cant promise ill change the world but i can promise i try my godamn hardest to do so.
Protect my doggo. She is stupid.
Life is random, and meanness and cold. No matter who you are, death comes with no bias. You have to make life worth living in the now because I have seen the regret and pain in the eyes of the dying far too many times. Also be nice to your kids.
That consciousness is eternal. That each of us will live until the end of the universe and possibly beyond. Alone.
We are the universe experiencing itself
Oh, I just had a near death experience! Ran a stop and almost got hit by a bus; would've hit me right on the ribs! I've had another crash before where a powerline pole fell over my car, right next to my head.
My experience? Life didn't flash before my eyes. I was just very scared at the moment, and was anxious and upset for a few hours after. It's definitely going to change how carefully I drive moving forward.
Otherwise, I've seen a lot of patients sick, dying or terminally ill, working as a physician. It definitely affected the way I see life; I try to care less about what other people think I should be doing and instead act in a way I think is right. I am happy and satisfied that if I die I will be thought of fondly by most people I've interacted with.
I witnessed the deaths of Edd Gould and Steve Jobs before Zombie Land Saga subverted my last experience with characters being dead by zombifying the dead and conjuring them up.
I don’t find that possible in real life now that Akira Toriyama has passed on and death is permanent.
WHY IS NO ONE PAYING ATTENTION?!
I didn't even know I died. I just... woke up. I'm so happy to be depressed and to admit my faults and to make my friends laugh. There is a Multiverse where I don't do that.
letting your hamster ball roll down the stairs isn’t good
My experiences with death has cured me of any atheist delusions. There's a damn good reason they say, "there are no atheists in foxholes." It's not about whether you believe this or that to be real or not real - that is irrelevant - it's about what matters in those horrible moments people experience true mortality before they go. It's not pretty like they pretend it to be in the movies, and armchair philosophizing doesn't mean squat to people then.
No offense, but "No atheists in foxholes" ONLY makes sense to religious people... why would an atheist pray to something he/she doesn't believe in? Do Christians pray to Muhammad or one of the thousands of other religions in foxholes? Of course not, because they don't believe in them... that's the point. If someone is doing that, they're at best agnostic.
And for the record, I've had one of my daughters literally die in my arms, it's a terrible experience, but it didn't convert me to some religion to try and make sense out of.
None taken.
I'm afraid not. I'm not religious at all - and it makes perfect sense to me.
It's very easy to convince yourself that you've chosen to believe this or that when life is comfortable. It's peak individualism - and such delusions fall apart very fast when the trauma starts piling on. You don't have to believe me - believe the people who wrote the CIA's torture manuals.
It's called "regression" - if you were spoon-fed a certain religion as a child you will "regress" to that under extreme duress (amongst other, even worse, things). That's why they say, “there are no atheists in foxholes.”
And if you weren't? Probably hard to believe for most Americans but atheism isn't an invention of the current generations.
Of course it isn't.
That's actually a very difficult thing... even someone who was raised in a non-religious home would be exposed to religion (and things worse than religion under our current circumstances) through social osmosis. Soooo... you'd have to find someone that was raised in a society that can be called atheist with a straight face.
So you're saying you'd pray to things you don't believe in when confronted with something traumatic?
This is all going straight over your head, isn't it?
I guess it must be "going over my head", because it makes no sense to me to pray to something that isn't there, unless you at least think there's at least a tiny chance there is... aka agnostic.
I also wouldn't pray to my toaster unless I thought at least there was the slightest chance it could hear me.
So everything in your life "makes sense"? How did you accomplish that?
I also wouldn't recommend praying to anything that comes with an on/off switch... though I am undecided about threatening them with banishment to a landfill.
I never said everything in life makes sense, just that praying to something you don't think is real doesn't.
Obviously you believe in some form of higher power, so it makes sense that you would pray to it. But you wouldn't pray to something you don't at least think has a chance of existing, why would you think an atheist would?
Why is your thinking about this so narrow? What makes you think this is simply about praying?
Btw - this is why triggering atheists is so much more fun than triggering believers... you're more narrow-minded than they are.
There are lots of "higher powers" around - though I wouldn't say I believe in any of them. They seem to get on just fine wiothout my belief.
Pray to power? That's a new one to me.
I'm not "triggered," I was trying to have a conversation in good faith but obviously that wasn't your intention. Think whatever you'd like, I was pointing out how your first statement was wrong about that weird "foxhole" thing.
So far, only one self-described atheist have attempted what you claim to have attempted - and, so far, that isn't you.
I will acknowledge, however, that, so far, you haven't flown off the handle like a lot of your fellow atheists yet - there's quite a lot of them really angry that their (alleged) rationality is not as guaranteed as they had assumed. Maybe you deserve a medal - considering that the bar is so damn low.
...and you still haven't - it still stands.
That's because I don't care that much what people think of me not having "belief." I will say my two cents, if someone want's to learn something from it that's great, if not, that's fine too... whether it's you or someone else reading this.
Anyway, have a good one.
Wow this is a stupid take. I was spoon fed Christianity, now I'm agnostic. I've experienced plenty of traumatic things and I haven't found myself praying to God in any of those.
Where did you get this is bs?
I guess you missed this part?
I suppose you were too busy convincing yourself that losing at video games qualify as "traumatic..."
You don't know me at all, dipshit. Congratulations for being the most insufferable Lemmy user I've ran into so far. I feel sorry for people that know you. That has to be traumatic.
I agree. And I'd prefer to keep it that way.
Considering how easy it was to trigger you I find your claim of any kind of actual life experience quite dubious.
You make an awful lot of assumptions. Keep being a basement keyboard warrior, loser.
ROFLMAO! Says the person who named themselves "Cold_Brew_Enema!"
People react differently, sure, some will call out to some higher power even if they don't believe, if these call-outs are part of their vocabulary. I certainly say "oh god" a lot, even though I'm a very vocal anti-theist and strong atheist. But they do not necessarily beg a higher power to safe them because they actually believe, but because in distress reaching for help is human instinct and our theism infused culture conditions us towards "god" in such situations.
I'm not proud of it, but in distress I did call to god for help. But hey, I was 11 years old and just had my fingers crushed to paste, I was in shock and not thinking and at no point did I actually expect help.
None of that is belief, as soon as peoole regain their senses, they discard it. Just like wounded soldiers on a battlefield don't actually expect their mothers to show up and safe them, yet still call out to them.
Belief needs conviction and irrational panic behavior tells us nothing about conviction but a lot about ingrained childhood experience and familial as well as societal indoctrination.
Doesn't sound like the actions of a "strong atheist" (if such a thing can or should even exist) to me... just sounds like bog-standard human behavior.
But you've left all of that behind, right? You're a big, strong, rational main character now that will never be put into such a vulnerable situation ever again, right?
Perhaps it is and perhaps it isn't - and that probably isn't even relevant.
When I cease to be hungry I stop eating - that doesn't mean I reject the concept of food.
In other words... atheist reasoning only works as long as everything is comfortable and non-threatening? It offers absolutely nothing to those in distress?
I'd say that's a big, gaping hole in said reasoning.
So does non-belief, apparently. At least, that's what the narratives I hear from atheists seem to suggest.
You want a drink with all that straw, man?
Depends... is it big enough to fill the giant gap in atheist reasoning?
I am to my knowledge still alive, meaning that I don't have any experience with being dead.