As a small phone lover, here's the thing: we don't consume as many phones or as many services as (general) big phone people.
It's not only about the size of the community. It's that our phones are tools generally at our service and not the reverse.
Hopefully Linux phones are not so far away from usable in the next couple years.
Hopefully Linux phones are not so far away from usable in the next couple years.
I said the same thing in like 2013. :(
It seemed more likely back then than it does today. Ubuntu and Firefox were both developing mobile OSes around that time.
What's the closest thing to a viable option nowadays?
I think a Pixel running Graphene is the closest viable option. Out of the pool of bespoke built to run GNU/Linux phones, it might just be the PinePhone Pro. It's the one suffering the least from critical existence failure.
Try calyx for a stable, truly Google-free pixel experience.
Plus it looked like Web Apps were gonna become huge.
I know the words "web app" send some on Lemmy into a frenzied rage, but they'd be amazing from a platform agnostic perspective.
Imagine if the biggest barrier to entry for new smartphone OSes (app support) was gone. It'd be huge.
But seeing it as a threat to their business models (don't get that 30% cut if it's not through the App/Play stores), Apple and Google have had pretty shitty support for them.
If a Linux phone was out today and had good hardware and software, it'd still fail just like Windows Phone and BlackBerry OS did. WebApps would give it a strong chance though.
Agreed. I'd like to add that web apps are much better today than they were 10 years ago. We have notification support, touch support, etc. A well-made progressive web app is basically the same as a native app now — or it would be with halfway-decent OS support, anyway.
The fact is, a ton of common apps are just web wrappers anyway, even on desktop. Like Discord, Slack, and Steam. Even Outlook is moving in that direction.
It is indeed quite dire. My hope lies in that the recent attempts have been more upstream first oriented where lots of distros run on phones. They do not work well yet but that approach might just get us there eventually.
Another thing that gives me hope is that phones do not change much any more. Much easier to catch up to a stagnated market.
RIP Ubuntu Edge
They got so close to the Kickstart goal
Linux phones aren't gonna help, the issue is the hardware
Unfortunately it does not look like as if linux phones would be developing anywhere
Isn't Android Linux?
Linux is often used to refer to a family of operating systems including Ubuntu, Debian, fedora, red hat, ect., which all use the Linux kernel.
However, GNU/Linux may be a better name for this family of operating systems, since they all use GNU components and (to varying extents) embrace the philosophy of the free software foundation.
Android uses the Linux kernel, but not GNU components, and do not embrace the philosophy of the Free software foundation.
Stalman, the man who founded GNU and the free software foundation published his thoughts on this:
Yeah, but it's not like a typical Linux installation on a PC would be. You can't just install a Flatpak application or anything like that. It doesn't use many of the GNU core utilities that most other Linux distros use, and doesn't use a mainline kernel.
People that ask for Linux phones know Android is Linux.
It's just a lot more concise to say than "I want a phone with an open bootloader and hardware fully compatible with a mainline Linux kernel. I want to have a phone that can run a Phosh/Gnome Mobile/Plasma Mobile UI and on the backend work in a similar way to how desktop Linux would."
I mean, Android...
Mom: "We have Linux at home"
Linux at home: Google™ Linux
I just use foldable phones now. The outer screen width of a Galaxy Fold is the same as an Xperia Z3 Compact and when I use the phone two handed I get the benefit of having a big-ass screen. You just get used to the weight after a while.
Praying the Xperia 5 VI is a bit more compact that the previous iteration. That and Sony actually start supporting their services for at least 5 years -_-
It probably is if the rumour about them switching to a 19.5:9 resolution is true. It'll still be larger than the S24 and Pixel 8 because of the top and bottom bezel but height should decrease by a couple of mm.
Yeah, the lack of software support made me disregard the Xperia completely (well and its price), which is sad because it is otherwise a great phone with actual useful features that other manufacturers have removed.
Me too. I don't mind the 21:9 cause to me, at least it has some use (cinema scope) but buying an 800$ phone to get 2 software updates? Nope
I think he means normal sized phones, instead of the 'phablets' we are surrounded by now. I still think the ~6.1 inch screen is the perfect size.
6.1” is too big. I miss the 4.7-5.1” range that they had on the iPhone Mini for example.
HTC One dimensions: 146.4 x 70.6 x 9.4 mm
S23 dimensions: 146.3 x 70.9 x 7.6 mm
You don't account for the MUCH smaller bezels and the different aspect ratio. The phone size is very similar
For me, it's about width, not screen size.
My current phone is 6.1", but it's only 68mm wide, so it's easy to hold one-handed and slips in & out of my pocket easily. (It's a Sony Xperia 10 V).
I love everything about this phone except that there's no NA version, so my phone is missing a couple of the cell bands from my service provider. In particular, the wide band, so I don't get great reception in the middle of large buildings.
Other than that, it's great. Lots of RAM so app swapping is quick, and the battery life is so good I have it set to only ever charge to 80% and I've only dipped down to 20% on very high usage days. My usual usage is 80-50% daily.
Thats a small phone and I agree they are good too. But 6 is a good size imo, plenty of real estate and cant still be used with one hand.
I can't use a 6" screen one handed, I doubt most women (who are half the population) can either.
@BearOfaTime@warm at 6", even smaller hands like mine are able to reach within .5cm of the top of the screen. At that size, the weight distribution of the phone is what makes a difference in terms of manageability. For example, the weight distribution of the Pixel 6a (6.1") makes it a breeze to use with my right hand, but a tad more difficult with my left one. Using it in reverse (had to once) is impossible one-handed.
Yeah, that size is certainly the limit for usability tbh. Its diminishing returns past that, I dont need a wider or longer phone, everything can be displayed perfectly on a 6 inch.
If you have big hands.
Nah, I have average hand size and can use that size phone with one hand easily. Though I do prefer smaller phones in general and would rather see more choice in that space.
Lol, I call BS.
You clearly don't have "average size hands" unless you're excluding women from that calculus.
Even then, an average man probably can't use a 6" screen one handed. Why else do they ship with "one handed mode" on devices?
Yeah average male hand sorry. Female hands is another reason we need small phones, that and the illegally small pocket sizes they have to put up with!
I can use it one handed, its not the most comfortable thing for every task, but doable. I would not want a phone any larger though.
Pockets at least you can expand, I do it on all my clothing.
I can only reach about 5" with the thumb, while holding the phone. But not the opposite edge. Average male hand.
Yeah if you keep the same grip, if I change grip I can reach everywhere, though smaller would definitely be easier and more comfortable.
I find for me it is half about the usability of thw phone one handed and the other half being pocketability. I don't want to have to carry a man-purse just to be able to have my phone with me at all times. Front pocket of jeans is where i keep my phone and the pockets are not deep enough to contain the phone without pressing into my hips when i sit. Keeping the phone in the back pocket is just inviting theft.
I just want another Sony Xperia XZ1 Compact with updated specifications.
👶
6 in phones are in no danger of disappearing though.
MKBHD's video titles are so click baity now
It's annoying but I get it. If you want to make it or stay big on YT you gotta play the game, and the majority of people eat up click-baity titles and obnoxious thumbnails.
I don't disagree but it's still a shame to see a well established channel needing to go to such lows.
ALL HAIL THE ALGORITHM
"We"
I used an iPod touch 4G thru 7G as my 'phone'. WiFi was available enough where I live that it was all I needed. And if I was off in the woods somewhere, I was ok not having service, and the intarwebs instantly answering my every curiosity. I tried to keep it small.
There is at least the Unihertz Jellystar, which is a fairly nice tiny phone. Personally I'm likely stuck with Pixel phones because I'm a big fan of Graphene OS, otherwise I'd likely pick one up after my Pixel 4a fails, which might be awhile, since it's still going strong.
Never heard of the Jelly Star! $200 bucks?! I just ordered one.
Fucking awesome phone. Been my daily driver for a week now.
Typing is horrible, tough, and for anything serious (browsing, streaming...) you will want a bigger screen and general more build quality. Camera, sound quality, screen are all screaming low end.
Super fast charging because the battery is tiny, sill good SOT because the screen is tiny too.
Feels damn good to be able to use and hold your phone one handed in almost any orientation you can hold your arm in.
Keyboard: AnySoftKey and a Compact layout (2 keys, 1 button) is very helpful.
Have you heard of thumb-key keyboard? It's basically a 3x3 grid with swipe gestures for extra characters. I've been trying to switch to it for a bit cause I think eventually my typing will be faster and it will be a better one handed typing experience.
Anyway, I think this would work well on a small screen device too, if you can get used to a whole new keyboard paradigm.
It's on the IzzyOnDroid repo for f-droid.
Hope this is helpful to someone!
Tried ThumbKey and realized, I'm 100 % used to QWERY/QWERTZ keyboard layouts. The ThumbKey keys are not in roughly the same spots as on a regular keyboard and I just couldn't get used to this. Damn brain. I might give it another try in the future, because the idea is damn great.
Yeah I had the same problem. I just had to commit to being a slow typer for a while, but I inproved quicker than I thought. Still learning tho. I keep a regular keyboard I can switch to with the button on the bottom right of the home buttons for the rare times I need to type something urgently.
I've been using mine since Christmas
It's amazing how capable this thing is with such a tiny screen
Oh, cool! Hope you like it dude :)
Holy shit, That thing is absolutely TINY
Almost too tiny for me…
4.5 - 5.5 would probably be the sweetspot for me.
The death of small phones is why I'm so committed to my flip 4. The space it takes up in my pocket or bag is so much less than any "regular" phone.
Pocket space is only half the problem. The other half is one-handed use and the flip is huge when opened.
This is true, and honestly my biggest gripe with the phone. I don't wear small mitts, and I can only comfortably reach 3/4 of the way up the phone. This is exacerbated by the fact that phone application design is in a very top-centric stage right now. I wonder if there's a way I could extend the android nav bar to take up the top 1/4 of the screen...
On Samsung devices there is an accessibility setting that gives a smaller one-hand screen when swiping down from the bottom bar. But that just feels like a waste of space when you could just have a smaller screen.
That's available on Pixels as well - I use it a lot even on my smaller 4a. Very handy in a pinch!
I know it's not everyones cup of tea but..
I ended up buying a Pixel Fold for the Fold aspect. There's an added benefit that it's really short when folded so I can reach the entire screen one handed. It's heavier and thicker than a slate phone, but I actually enjoy the folded experience way better than other phones.
Why do people need to use their phone with one hand?
Because it's something you use a lot for small things throughout the day. When you need to quickly answer a message or look at a map you shouldn't need to stop and place down everything you're holding.
I don't know, those things aren't a problem for me. I can use maps and type one handed if I need to and I use my phone as much as the next guy. I just don't find I really need to very often, very rarely in fact.
I know my way of doing things isn't always standard, are there other reasons people have?
This is probably very subjective. I'd say I use my phone one-handed about 7/10 times and I'd do it more if I could. Actually I do most things one-handed when possible but I have small hands so phones are becoming an issue. There isn't a specific reason, it's just more convenient.
Yeah it is subjective but when I see complaints about big phones, or rather the lack of small ones, using it one handed seems to be a regular thing.
I've been thinking about this and I used both hands with all my phones back to the old Nokia feature phone days, and the first smart phone I had was less than 3.5 inches.
Despite my fairly large hands that have no problem shifting the phone around in one, I just don't. And it's because of accuracy, or lack of it. I can miss my intended target quite easily, even with two hands. The bigger the screen, the less accurate I have to be. That's a really big thing for me. I even used the Nokias with bigger buttons.
This is starting to make sense! If I had smaller fingers that were also more accurate, I would probably want to use a phone one handed as well.
I think this has explained it for me and I'm glad I asked. Now I can appreciate the perspective of the complaint and that's something I like, seeing things from a place different to my own.
I just don't find I really need to very often, very rarely in fact.
Yes, use my phone one handed. Was that not clear?
To me that's the exact and only purpose of a phone: for it to be a handheld portable computer. For that purpose I should be able to use it with one hand
To me that doesn't really compute. I like to see a lot of information on my screen and my eyes aren't as young as they were. My hands aren't small and neither are my pockets, but I use two hands most of the time.
I guess we're all different and if your phone is too big and it's getting more difficult to find the small phone you want, then I can certainly understand why it's a problem for some.
I don't really like looking at curved screens but I do really like using gestures for navigating. Flat screens aren't as easy to do that with especially as I like to use a case. Horses for courses, eh?
To me that doesn't really compute. I like to see a lot of information on my screen and my eyes aren't as young as they were.
I do too, but glasses help a lot. In my use case 5" is plenty, though not with default settings: global UI size was tweaked so everything is smaller, and more fits on screen.
I don't really like looking at curved screens
Neither do I, and I'm doing everything I can to avoid those phones. No feature can balance that huge con.
Flat screens aren't as easy to do that with especially as I like to use a case.
Hmm, interesting. I'm using gestures too, some more than others, and with a flat screen it's fine for me.
Yes, with reading glasses and everything bigger!
No feature can balance that huge con.
My requirements out way that con by a large degree. It's not ideal but there's no perfect phone.
I'm using gestures too
With a case? I have to use a work phone with a flat screen and a case. I set the gestures the same as my own phone for muscle memory and it's often annoyingly bad.
These things are all subjective, we just have different needs. As I've said elsewhere, I asked the question because I did not know what reasons people had for wanting a small phone. I've had plenty of good answers now, including yours, and I'm glad I now have a better understanding of the needs for small phones.
True that I don't use a case. It has fallen apart years ago and didn't bother to get a new one. I was using gestures while I had the case, too, but I don't remember how was it it usability.
I'd kill for a sub-6" phone with a physical telephoto lens.
Because there is no demand, display manufacturers don't produce small phone displays anymore. And because there's no small display in stock, phone manufacturers have given up on producing small smartphones. Technically, you can contract the display manufacturers to restart production of small phone displays, but no one seems to be interested in taking the upfront risk.
Haven't watched the video but he is one of the reasons and a strong one. He has really big hands and has been pushing flagship devices since forever.
I have really big hands too, and even with those, really big phone sizes are just not practical, IMHO. Unless one has giant NBA player tennis racket sized hands, past 6” to 6.2”, you just can’t comfortably hold your phone and reach every part of the screen without shifting it around all the time.
I have pretty small hands and I use a 6.7" phone with no trouble. (As a size reference, I can comfortably reach the frets on a 3/4 size electric bass or a guitar, but a full size electric bass is too big for me and I can't play without moving my hand a lot more than you're supposed to.)
I don’t disagree you may find it comfortable, I just genuinely don’t understand how you do it. I guess you don’t mind the shuffling around that comes with typing a button in the opposite corner of the screen, but I personally do. When holding my phone with one hand in a position I can type in and the phone just won’t slide down to the floor, my thumb just doesn’t reach the opposite corner of the screen without shifting the phone in my hand.
I think it's a matter if habits mostly. After thinking about it more, it seems I almost always use my phone with both hands. With one hand it does feel pretty awkward and unstable if I'm trying to do something complicated like typing. I can use it one handed and it's fine for something like scrolling through social media or controlling a music player. I also use a launcher (Niagara) that happens to be designed well for using one handed on a big phone (but that's not why I use it).
It could also be an Android vs iPhone issue. I use Android, and the back gesture is really convenient no matter how you're holding the phone. I've noticed that iOS doesn't seem to have a back gesture, and the back button in a lot of apps is in the worst possible place for one handed use. I think there's an overall trend in Android apps to put the most important controls at the bottom of the screen, but in my (admittedly very fuzzy) recollections of Apple apps, they seem more inclined to put buttons at the top.
Dunno if it’s really an Android vs iOS thing considering I’ve been on Android since forever before the last 3 months. But yeah it probably has to do with usage patterns, of how you use your phone. I barely ever use mine two-handed unless I’m typing more than a sentence or two. I mostly navigate and interact with apps more than I type.
My hands are also tiny and smol, and I'm also clumsy, but I have no issues with my S23 Ultra. 🤷🏼♀️
did you watch the video, basically the next Zenfone is a ROG phone lite.
and i say this as a ZF9 user.
Yes, but we still have the S line. So I don't know about this whole "small flagship is dead" thing.
it's more or less the idea that companies are starting to ditch the idea. Apple introduced the mini with 12, and 13, and ditched it for the plus models after 2 generations. Asus had it for the 9 and 10, and 11 (so far) is only launching with an Ultra, ditching it after 2 generations. Samsung just has the unique position that its catalog is large enough that itll have some reasonable in terms of SOC, but not technically flagship as it lacks the camera functionality of the top model.
I guess I'm having a little trouble about the "flagship" definition then. I always assumed that the S line was the best Samsung has to offer, the Pro line was the best from Apple, and so it goes. So the S24 and the 15 Pro are flagships, and those have the same size of the Zenfone 10.
But if "flagship" is only the most expensive phone from a company, I'd argue that the ROG phones are flagships from ASUS, not the Zenfone ones. IDK.
The baseline S series is not a flagship product. Samsung deliberately cuts features from it to sell their actual flagship, the Ultra series. A definition of flagship:
the best or most important product, idea, building, etc. that an organization owns or produces
Flagship does not mean "it has an 8 series Snapdragon or equivalent inside". This has never been the definition of flagship. Please stop using the word like this.
I definitely think Apple and Samsung can do a smaller premium phone if they want to as Apple makes the lion's share of profits in the industry and Samsung is the only other manufacturer that makes a significant amount of profit. Heck Samsung can probably do a smaller midrange phone as well. I do not think it makes sense for other manufacturers as they make 3% profit and targeting a very vocal but demanding minority isn't going to help them improve that.
Small phone users should also temper their expectation, I saw a lot of comments from people saying they didn't get the iPhone mini because they expected the Pro Max's specs in the mini form factor. They have to understand that the cameras on the biggest flagships occupy a lot of space and it isn't feasible to bring it to a smaller form factor. Increasing the thickness might help with the battery but that's about the only component that benefits with an increase in one dimension.
They have to understand that the cameras on the biggest flagships occupy a lot of space and it isn't feasible to bring it to a smaller form factor.
Not... Really... Sure it makes some difference, but the much more constraining factor is the money. Cameras arent that big, but they're one of the priciest pieces of hardware in the device.
The problem is more that they keep trying to sell small phones at cheaper price points. So they end up with much worse screens, socs, and cameras so they perform like shit. People don't want a small phone because they don't care about their phone. People want small phones because the standard size is fucking huge. They need to make a high-ish tier small phone instead of low tier small phone that performs like the 50 Walmart shit.
Not... Really... Sure it makes some difference, but the much more constraining factor is the money. Cameras arent that big, but they're one of the priciest pieces of hardware in the device.
There's isn't enough physical space for three sensors on a smaller phone especially if it's the size of the iPhone mini. They can fit them on a 6.1-6.2 inch device, that's why the S24 and iPhone 15 Pro have them. However the 16 Pro is supposedly getting larger because it's getting a larger sensor for 5x optical zoom. If you look at a periscope lens, it needs a substantial amount of extra width as well. A teardown of any recent flagship reveals that camera modules occupy more space than they did if you look at tearsowns from three or four years back. This makes sense because the sensor itself is increasing in size and the size needs to go up both length and width wise to maintain the aspect ratio of the sensor. Heck in some cases like the Xiaomi 14 Ultra and Oppo Find X7 Ultra, the camera modules occupy more space than the rest of the motherboard.
The problem is more that they keep trying to sell small phones at cheaper price points.
The iPhone mini was cheaper but it had pretty much the same specs as the regular iPhone except for wireless charging speed iirc. Sales were much lower than the regular model despite that (around or less than 5% of total iPhone 12 and 13 sales). If Apple couldn't make a smaller phone sell particularly well, I doubt anyone else could.
There's isn't enough physical space for three sensors on a smaller phone especially if it's the size of the iPhone mini
I wouldn't go as far as to claim that "more cameras" is the complaints being made here. Sure, telephotos make sense as things that take up more space. But most people are using them for like 1 in 50 shots or something. I have an extremely hard time believing that someone would genuinely notice the difference unless they're an extreme case or they've been told the other ones are better. Within reasonable effective focal lengths, these are pretty negligible in the sizes we're talking about.
If Apple couldn't make a smaller phone sell particularly well, I doubt anyone else could.
I hard disagree with this. Apple is literally the worst company to try to make this shit work. Apple's core selling point is the status symbol of it all. People trying to show off having the flashiest phone are not going to buy a product being touted as a half baked smaller and cheaper version of something else. Their entire marketing was about it being mini. Apple customers are not the core audience for something like this, and Apple marketed it as exactly what people disliked about small phones.
around or less than 5% of total iPhone 12 and 13 sales
I find it more surprising that this was below expectations than I do that only 5% of people bought a smaller phone. I doubt much more than 1 in 20 people really is after a smaller phone. I'm sure they exist, but based on the people I know and the number of people I've heard interested in smaller phones, I'd estimate it more like 1 in 20 to 1 in 40. It's not for most people by any means. But 1 in 20 is still a decent number of people.
First of all sorry for the delayed reply but i only got the notification a few hours back for some reason.
I wouldn't go as far as to claim that "more cameras" is the complaints being made here.
It is one of the most common complaints cited against buying a smaller phone especially in tech enthusiast circles. Some people say they ended up getting the bigger phone because it had better cameras or the presence of the telephoto was enough.
I hard disagree with this. Apple is literally the worst company to try to make this shit work.
We'll have to disagree. Apple have been one of the best at maintaining equality between a larger phone and a smaller phone in recent times since they manufacture phones in enough volume to actually care about miniaturizing components. The minis had feature parity with the regular iPhones of that year. The Pros are larger but they've maintained feature parity with the Pro Max in most instances except for the 12 Pro/12 Pro Max and 15 Pro/15 Pro Max. Even with those two instances the only difference was in the cameras. I'll acknowledge there's no fair comparison with Google or Samsung but that's only because they don't make a smaller Pro/Ultra phone. Even if they did, I'm fairly sure the cameras would be different.
1 in 20 is still a decent number of people.
In the volumes Apple sells, that probably equates to a couple of million units. 5% would not be a very attractive proposition for other manufacturers since they'd need to increase profit margins to actually make money from making a smaller phone as they deal with much smaller volumes.
Small phone users should also temper their expectation
Every time there is a small phone thread here or on reddit most of the comments are from people complaining that there is no small phone with the equivalent features of their near 7-inch flagship. People do not seem to weigh size in the same way as other features and are not willing to make compromises for it. Small phone fans need to think seriously about how important and practical all their supposedly "essential" high end features actually are versus physical size. There have been plenty of chances to buy and own smaller phones in the past and these people didn't buy them because they weren't perfect. This is the result.
Yeah it's strange some of them expect the exact same specs as the Pro or Ultra phone in a smaller form factor. Some sacrifices have to be made to fit components in a smaller form factor as you cannot overcome the laws of physics. I've seen many ridiculous comments saying manufacturers can fit the same cameras and all the sensors along with a bigger battery if they made the phone thicker. It's almost as if they expect the bigger phone to get neutered to maintain parity.
The S23 and S24 are solid phones at a regular size. So Samsung already do normal sized flagships. It's the mid-low range that is lacking, they are all oversized in that price range, so people don't have much choice but to buy an oversized phone.
Yeah they're regular sized, you could consider the iPhone 15 and 15 Pro as regular sized as well. I think they could probably do a smaller phone about the size of the iPhone 12/13 mini as well if they wanted to. However I'm not sure if they'll do it since the S22 is their smallest phones since the S10e and they haven't gone smaller than that unless you go all the way back to the S4 (which itself has a similar width to the S10e). I understand why they wouldn't do it because it seems the people who want an iPhone 5S to iPhone mini sized phone are extremely vocal but that doesn't seem to translate to numbers in real life.
People would probably buy smaller phones if given the correct choices, I think the iPhone 15 size is good yeah. iPhone is often a fashion statement, so people usually want the highest end they can get and manufacturers tend to put more features in their bigger more expensive models.
There's no options in the mid-range for smaller phones, most are over 6.5 inches. So people are forced into buying them, there's definitely a large market for small phones, but manufacturers force them into larger models. I suspect they are easier/cheaper to make, so that's what we get. Also bigger numbers = better right, so they'd rather crank the marketing on battery, screen etc.
I don't think they're going to be able to put the same cameras on a smaller phone, especially if you look at something like the Xiaomi 14 Ultra or the Oppo Find X7 Ultra. The sensors are massive and require a lot of space. You may be able to fit two of those sensors on a 6.1 inch phone without compromising on other things like the battery, haptics, antennae for example. They could probably fit a bigger battery by making the phone thicker but it seems like manufacturers like a uniform thickness for most of their models or somewhere thereabouts probably because it's easier to machine the frame.
Of course there's some limitations yeah, though the S24 and iPhone 15 have great cameras, more than enough for the majority of people. Most people aren't power users and won't even look at specs in-depth, just a glance at what it looks like, storage and price. Size would definitely be a factor people would consider (and already do when they can) and it's a real shame there aren't more options.
To be honest looking at the teardowns it's impressive what Apple and Samsung have managed to fit in their phones, I think the Xiamoi 14 Ultra isn't doing itself any favours with that camera placement though, seems inefficient having the modules in the middle of the phone?
I'm not a fan of the cameras on the S24 and base iPhone 15. Samsung have recycled the same cameras for three generations now, I think they can put a larger primary sensor in there.
To be honest looking at the teardowns it's impressive what Apple and Samsung have managed to fit in their phones, I think the Xiamoi 14 Ultra isn't doing itself any favours with that camera placement though, seems inefficient having the modules in the middle of the phone?
Idk, Apple does a better job with the Pro as compared to the regular model. Google, Xiaomi and Asus managed to fit bigger batteries on the Pixel 8, Xiaomi 14 and Zenfone 10 without increasing the size too much. Here's a teardown of the Xiaomi 14 Ultra. It seems like they're using space pretty efficiently in there.
Fair enough, but I think for most people the cameras are more than enough. I haven't used the iPhone ones but the Samsung ones are honestly fantastic already. It's diminishing returns past that point, like it's buying an actual camera territory.
It feels like with the cameras in the middle, they have to have smaller PCB area around them? Whereas if they are to the side, there's a larger space for a PCB. I don't know though, I think the phone is ugly anyway.
Yeah that's a fair point. I don't like the output of the primary sensor and the 3x on the S24. Feels like they oversharpen and oversaturate colours way too much. Also feel the hardware is lacking compared to the Pixel 8 and iPhone 15 Pro's sensor as they're physically bigger and don't have as much of a problem with shutter lag.
Yeah I agree, there's always room for improvement, but if having smaller phones means sacrificing on camera a bit I don't mind personally. Samsung probably should have upgraded sensors, but I guess they share the same "its good enough" sentiment I have about that. I'd trade an entire sensor for a micro SD card slot and a 3.5mm port!
I hate small phones. I switched back to an iphone SE years ago and realized it was a pita to use anymore. Everything is.. too small.
It started as a hardware problem and doesn't seem to be slowing down. LTE needed more and larger antennae for lower frequencies than older tech. Four cellular antennae are now pretty standard. Then you have wifi, Bluetooth (which can share if they can TDM), wireless charging, NFC, ultra wideband, GNSS. Then the chips are so powerful they need heat dissipation systems installed (or just lame thermal throttling like what Apple does.)
The modems require more power, (especially at the beginning of LTE) which means bigger batteries. LTE and NR have reduced range compared to the older narrowband technologies, so the phone needs to use more power to transmit, especially when carriers like Verizon didn't backfill cell sites to compensate for the reduced coverage.
Then, cameras, one wasn't enough, 4 or 5 are very common now (usually 3 primary and depth or low res sensors for aiming.)
When tablets became popular, many people decided to just have a large phone screen rather than a tablet, further entrenching the size.
The tech is more mature now, a 2-antenna MIMO antenna for cellular would suffice, albeit at the expense of network performance. Likewise one camera with a depth sensor would work, although mobile photography would be more limited. Dropping some limited-use items like wireless charging and ultra wideband could further shrink space.
So it would be possible now, but as others here have mentioned, the supply side focuses on larger hardware.
Ironically, at this point I'd almost prefer a smart watch with LTE and stop carrying a phone altogether. However, the aforementioned antenna issue makes it so watches generally have poor to unusable signal, poor battery life in cellular mode, no camera, and the 5G NR low power spec/chips aren't fully done yet, so it's LTE only on them, which, with carriers transitioning to 5G will make it so watches can only access a handful of congested bands.
Also, that device manufacturers tend to design smart watches to be companion devices to a smartphone rather than primary makes that concept's execution problematic.
Another idea I had that was anti small phone but huge battery boost was to just bring a backpack or a satchel or whatever. Carry a full sized tablet around, and use a Bluetooth headset for calls. However, tablets are also often crippled by carriers/manufacturers so they can't do common things like SMS or voice calls, and Apple has basically monopolized that market.
Bigger screens make it easier to use as my main computer, thank you.
I couldn't resist. I'm sorry
Dom Joly moment
BIG
I actually think the opposite is true as well. Phones these days mostly exist between 6.2 and 6.8". We don't actually have any huge phones as like the Galaxy Mega 6.3 (which with modern 19:9 aspect ratio screens and smaller bezels would be more like 7.5") don't exist either
I used to like small phones. I thought the form factor of my erstwhile iPhone 5 was perfect.
But then I got older, and my eyesight got worse. Reading small fonts on small screens is becoming increasingly difficult, but I'm not yet at the point where I have to wear glasses or contacts all the time. I also don't like just increasing font sizes, as I lose screen realestate. So I'm kinda starting to see why some people like phones with bigger screens.
I don't get why you'd want a smaller phone unless you're looking to get one in a flip-phone style form factor. I'd be down for that. I miss being able to accurately text from my pocket.
I don’t get why you’d want a smaller phone
Being able to hold the phone comfortably and securely in your hand is really important for me. I'd love to be able to reach the vast majority of the screen without having to shuffle the phone in my hand or use two hands. I very rarely watch any videos on my phone, or play any games that require a large screen.
My wifes iPhone 12 Mini is a perfect size.
One-handed mode exists if you need to reach the whole area of the interface with one hand, albeit it won't help if grip is an issue. Maybe a pop socket kinda thing for that?
Have you heard of women? Or maybe teenagers with not-so-large hands?
Most larger phones have a single-hand mode that gives you kind of a picture-in-picture of the screen itself.
Are you stupid...? You still have to hold the phone in one hand. One-handed mode doesn't change the physical width of the phone.
Ok? The issue wasn't clearly defined. There's always pop sockets and similar to make it easier to hold. That said, my teenaged kids have 0 be issue holding this phone so idk what OP is on about
Because I don't want this giant thing in my pocket that's also hard to hold, let alone use one handed.
Using one handed isn't really an issue if you toggle the one-handed mode...
Galaxy S3 was comfortable to chat and surf. One or two words less per line but it fit in your pocket and your hand didn't get tired from the weight.
I went S2 -> S5 -> S8+ -> Note 10+ -> S23 Ultra
Never really felt my phone was too big, though there are times where I've got a show to go to and wish I had a cheap flip phone to fall back on. The older phones seemed fine at the time until I realized how much better the bigger screens were. I'm not sure I'd want one bigger than the S23 Ultra, unless it folded out to a tablet.
I just went phone shopping not too long ago and had the opposite experience. Bigger phones are way harder to find now. Where the hell are the 6 or 7 inchers? 😩
That's what she said... sighs
A small phone is useless unless your only goal with it is receiving calls. Even making calls on a small phone is difficult, never mind using the Internet. And losing a larger one still happens, a small one would just disappear like a sock in the dryer.
Sure, there are times when having a bigger phone makes sense, but it hurts a whole lot less when I'm in bed watching something and i drop it on my face.
Have you tried not doing that?
To answer your question, no.
A small phone is fine to take photo/video, send messages, make calls, view video content, and play games. Any other use case is more appropriate for another device.
Why would any of these things be worse with a 4.5" screen? My eyesight is fine.
Navigation.
Cars have 12" tablets for dashboards now 💀
That's a different mess, and there's some serious pushback on that to bring back actual buttons and dials. 🤣
but seriously, I just navigate by sound only
With one exception, I've only had phone that would be classed as small by today's standards for the past ten years, the largest being a Pixel 4a and the smallest being a Sony X Compact. I preferred the size of the Sony.
I rarely make voice calls. I use my phone for messaging, light web browsing, notes, reading, watching videos, podcasts, navigation, occasional gaming, and photography when I've made the mistake of leaving the house without my real camera. I prefer smaller phones because they're easier to use one-handed.
That one exception is a Pixel 3a XL with a broken cellular modem I bought at a low price to test ROMs and mount on the handlebars of my bike where the vibration is likely to damage the camera. I do occasionally use it for media (video and books) where the larger screen is an advantage, but I would dislike carrying it in my pocket or using it for most tasks where I would have to use both hands.
As a small phone lover, here's the thing: we don't consume as many phones or as many services as (general) big phone people.
It's not only about the size of the community. It's that our phones are tools generally at our service and not the reverse.
Hopefully Linux phones are not so far away from usable in the next couple years.
I said the same thing in like 2013. :(
It seemed more likely back then than it does today. Ubuntu and Firefox were both developing mobile OSes around that time.
What's the closest thing to a viable option nowadays?
I think a Pixel running Graphene is the closest viable option. Out of the pool of bespoke built to run GNU/Linux phones, it might just be the PinePhone Pro. It's the one suffering the least from critical existence failure.
Try calyx for a stable, truly Google-free pixel experience.
Plus it looked like Web Apps were gonna become huge.
I know the words "web app" send some on Lemmy into a frenzied rage, but they'd be amazing from a platform agnostic perspective.
Imagine if the biggest barrier to entry for new smartphone OSes (app support) was gone. It'd be huge.
But seeing it as a threat to their business models (don't get that 30% cut if it's not through the App/Play stores), Apple and Google have had pretty shitty support for them.
If a Linux phone was out today and had good hardware and software, it'd still fail just like Windows Phone and BlackBerry OS did. WebApps would give it a strong chance though.
Agreed. I'd like to add that web apps are much better today than they were 10 years ago. We have notification support, touch support, etc. A well-made progressive web app is basically the same as a native app now — or it would be with halfway-decent OS support, anyway.
The fact is, a ton of common apps are just web wrappers anyway, even on desktop. Like Discord, Slack, and Steam. Even Outlook is moving in that direction.
It is indeed quite dire. My hope lies in that the recent attempts have been more upstream first oriented where lots of distros run on phones. They do not work well yet but that approach might just get us there eventually.
Another thing that gives me hope is that phones do not change much any more. Much easier to catch up to a stagnated market.
RIP Ubuntu Edge
They got so close to the Kickstart goal
Linux phones aren't gonna help, the issue is the hardware
Unfortunately it does not look like as if linux phones would be developing anywhere
Isn't Android Linux?
Linux is often used to refer to a family of operating systems including Ubuntu, Debian, fedora, red hat, ect., which all use the Linux kernel.
However, GNU/Linux may be a better name for this family of operating systems, since they all use GNU components and (to varying extents) embrace the philosophy of the free software foundation.
Android uses the Linux kernel, but not GNU components, and do not embrace the philosophy of the Free software foundation.
Stalman, the man who founded GNU and the free software foundation published his thoughts on this:
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/android-and-users-freedom.en.html
Yeah, but it's not like a typical Linux installation on a PC would be. You can't just install a Flatpak application or anything like that. It doesn't use many of the GNU core utilities that most other Linux distros use, and doesn't use a mainline kernel.
People that ask for Linux phones know Android is Linux.
It's just a lot more concise to say than "I want a phone with an open bootloader and hardware fully compatible with a mainline Linux kernel. I want to have a phone that can run a Phosh/Gnome Mobile/Plasma Mobile UI and on the backend work in a similar way to how desktop Linux would."
I mean, Android...
Mom: "We have Linux at home"
Linux at home: Google™ Linux
I just use foldable phones now. The outer screen width of a Galaxy Fold is the same as an Xperia Z3 Compact and when I use the phone two handed I get the benefit of having a big-ass screen. You just get used to the weight after a while.
Praying the Xperia 5 VI is a bit more compact that the previous iteration. That and Sony actually start supporting their services for at least 5 years -_-
It probably is if the rumour about them switching to a 19.5:9 resolution is true. It'll still be larger than the S24 and Pixel 8 because of the top and bottom bezel but height should decrease by a couple of mm.
Yeah, the lack of software support made me disregard the Xperia completely (well and its price), which is sad because it is otherwise a great phone with actual useful features that other manufacturers have removed.
Me too. I don't mind the 21:9 cause to me, at least it has some use (cinema scope) but buying an 800$ phone to get 2 software updates? Nope
I think he means normal sized phones, instead of the 'phablets' we are surrounded by now. I still think the ~6.1 inch screen is the perfect size.
6.1” is too big. I miss the 4.7-5.1” range that they had on the iPhone Mini for example.
HTC One dimensions: 146.4 x 70.6 x 9.4 mm
S23 dimensions: 146.3 x 70.9 x 7.6 mm
You don't account for the MUCH smaller bezels and the different aspect ratio. The phone size is very similar
For me, it's about width, not screen size.
My current phone is 6.1", but it's only 68mm wide, so it's easy to hold one-handed and slips in & out of my pocket easily. (It's a Sony Xperia 10 V).
I love everything about this phone except that there's no NA version, so my phone is missing a couple of the cell bands from my service provider. In particular, the wide band, so I don't get great reception in the middle of large buildings.
Other than that, it's great. Lots of RAM so app swapping is quick, and the battery life is so good I have it set to only ever charge to 80% and I've only dipped down to 20% on very high usage days. My usual usage is 80-50% daily.
Thats a small phone and I agree they are good too. But 6 is a good size imo, plenty of real estate and cant still be used with one hand.
I can't use a 6" screen one handed, I doubt most women (who are half the population) can either.
@BearOfaTime @warm at 6", even smaller hands like mine are able to reach within .5cm of the top of the screen. At that size, the weight distribution of the phone is what makes a difference in terms of manageability. For example, the weight distribution of the Pixel 6a (6.1") makes it a breeze to use with my right hand, but a tad more difficult with my left one. Using it in reverse (had to once) is impossible one-handed.
Yeah, that size is certainly the limit for usability tbh. Its diminishing returns past that, I dont need a wider or longer phone, everything can be displayed perfectly on a 6 inch.
If you have big hands.
Nah, I have average hand size and can use that size phone with one hand easily. Though I do prefer smaller phones in general and would rather see more choice in that space.
Lol, I call BS.
You clearly don't have "average size hands" unless you're excluding women from that calculus.
Even then, an average man probably can't use a 6" screen one handed. Why else do they ship with "one handed mode" on devices?
Yeah average male hand sorry. Female hands is another reason we need small phones, that and the illegally small pocket sizes they have to put up with!
I can use it one handed, its not the most comfortable thing for every task, but doable. I would not want a phone any larger though.
Pockets at least you can expand, I do it on all my clothing.
I can only reach about 5" with the thumb, while holding the phone. But not the opposite edge. Average male hand.
Yeah if you keep the same grip, if I change grip I can reach everywhere, though smaller would definitely be easier and more comfortable.
I find for me it is half about the usability of thw phone one handed and the other half being pocketability. I don't want to have to carry a man-purse just to be able to have my phone with me at all times. Front pocket of jeans is where i keep my phone and the pockets are not deep enough to contain the phone without pressing into my hips when i sit. Keeping the phone in the back pocket is just inviting theft.
I just want another Sony Xperia XZ1 Compact with updated specifications.
👶
6 in phones are in no danger of disappearing though.
MKBHD's video titles are so click baity now
It's annoying but I get it. If you want to make it or stay big on YT you gotta play the game, and the majority of people eat up click-baity titles and obnoxious thumbnails.
I don't disagree but it's still a shame to see a well established channel needing to go to such lows.
ALL HAIL THE ALGORITHM
"We"
I used an iPod touch 4G thru 7G as my 'phone'. WiFi was available enough where I live that it was all I needed. And if I was off in the woods somewhere, I was ok not having service, and the intarwebs instantly answering my every curiosity. I tried to keep it small.
There is at least the Unihertz Jellystar, which is a fairly nice tiny phone. Personally I'm likely stuck with Pixel phones because I'm a big fan of Graphene OS, otherwise I'd likely pick one up after my Pixel 4a fails, which might be awhile, since it's still going strong.
Never heard of the Jelly Star! $200 bucks?! I just ordered one.
Fucking awesome phone. Been my daily driver for a week now.
Typing is horrible, tough, and for anything serious (browsing, streaming...) you will want a bigger screen and general more build quality. Camera, sound quality, screen are all screaming low end.
Super fast charging because the battery is tiny, sill good SOT because the screen is tiny too.
Feels damn good to be able to use and hold your phone one handed in almost any orientation you can hold your arm in.
Keyboard: AnySoftKey and a Compact layout (2 keys, 1 button) is very helpful.
Have you heard of thumb-key keyboard? It's basically a 3x3 grid with swipe gestures for extra characters. I've been trying to switch to it for a bit cause I think eventually my typing will be faster and it will be a better one handed typing experience.
Anyway, I think this would work well on a small screen device too, if you can get used to a whole new keyboard paradigm.
It's on the IzzyOnDroid repo for f-droid.
Hope this is helpful to someone!
Tried ThumbKey and realized, I'm 100 % used to QWERY/QWERTZ keyboard layouts. The ThumbKey keys are not in roughly the same spots as on a regular keyboard and I just couldn't get used to this. Damn brain. I might give it another try in the future, because the idea is damn great.
Yeah I had the same problem. I just had to commit to being a slow typer for a while, but I inproved quicker than I thought. Still learning tho. I keep a regular keyboard I can switch to with the button on the bottom right of the home buttons for the rare times I need to type something urgently.
I've been using mine since Christmas
It's amazing how capable this thing is with such a tiny screen
Oh, cool! Hope you like it dude :)
Holy shit, That thing is absolutely TINY
Almost too tiny for me…
4.5 - 5.5 would probably be the sweetspot for me.
The death of small phones is why I'm so committed to my flip 4. The space it takes up in my pocket or bag is so much less than any "regular" phone.
Pocket space is only half the problem. The other half is one-handed use and the flip is huge when opened.
This is true, and honestly my biggest gripe with the phone. I don't wear small mitts, and I can only comfortably reach 3/4 of the way up the phone. This is exacerbated by the fact that phone application design is in a very top-centric stage right now. I wonder if there's a way I could extend the android nav bar to take up the top 1/4 of the screen...
On Samsung devices there is an accessibility setting that gives a smaller one-hand screen when swiping down from the bottom bar. But that just feels like a waste of space when you could just have a smaller screen.
That's available on Pixels as well - I use it a lot even on my smaller 4a. Very handy in a pinch!
I know it's not everyones cup of tea but..
I ended up buying a Pixel Fold for the Fold aspect. There's an added benefit that it's really short when folded so I can reach the entire screen one handed. It's heavier and thicker than a slate phone, but I actually enjoy the folded experience way better than other phones.
Why do people need to use their phone with one hand?
Because it's something you use a lot for small things throughout the day. When you need to quickly answer a message or look at a map you shouldn't need to stop and place down everything you're holding.
I don't know, those things aren't a problem for me. I can use maps and type one handed if I need to and I use my phone as much as the next guy. I just don't find I really need to very often, very rarely in fact.
I know my way of doing things isn't always standard, are there other reasons people have?
This is probably very subjective. I'd say I use my phone one-handed about 7/10 times and I'd do it more if I could. Actually I do most things one-handed when possible but I have small hands so phones are becoming an issue. There isn't a specific reason, it's just more convenient.
Yeah it is subjective but when I see complaints about big phones, or rather the lack of small ones, using it one handed seems to be a regular thing.
I've been thinking about this and I used both hands with all my phones back to the old Nokia feature phone days, and the first smart phone I had was less than 3.5 inches.
Despite my fairly large hands that have no problem shifting the phone around in one, I just don't. And it's because of accuracy, or lack of it. I can miss my intended target quite easily, even with two hands. The bigger the screen, the less accurate I have to be. That's a really big thing for me. I even used the Nokias with bigger buttons.
This is starting to make sense! If I had smaller fingers that were also more accurate, I would probably want to use a phone one handed as well.
I think this has explained it for me and I'm glad I asked. Now I can appreciate the perspective of the complaint and that's something I like, seeing things from a place different to my own.
Yes, use my phone one handed. Was that not clear?
To me that's the exact and only purpose of a phone: for it to be a handheld portable computer. For that purpose I should be able to use it with one hand
To me that doesn't really compute. I like to see a lot of information on my screen and my eyes aren't as young as they were. My hands aren't small and neither are my pockets, but I use two hands most of the time.
I guess we're all different and if your phone is too big and it's getting more difficult to find the small phone you want, then I can certainly understand why it's a problem for some.
I don't really like looking at curved screens but I do really like using gestures for navigating. Flat screens aren't as easy to do that with especially as I like to use a case. Horses for courses, eh?
I do too, but glasses help a lot. In my use case 5" is plenty, though not with default settings: global UI size was tweaked so everything is smaller, and more fits on screen.
Neither do I, and I'm doing everything I can to avoid those phones. No feature can balance that huge con.
Hmm, interesting. I'm using gestures too, some more than others, and with a flat screen it's fine for me.
Yes, with reading glasses and everything bigger!
My requirements out way that con by a large degree. It's not ideal but there's no perfect phone.
With a case? I have to use a work phone with a flat screen and a case. I set the gestures the same as my own phone for muscle memory and it's often annoyingly bad.
These things are all subjective, we just have different needs. As I've said elsewhere, I asked the question because I did not know what reasons people had for wanting a small phone. I've had plenty of good answers now, including yours, and I'm glad I now have a better understanding of the needs for small phones.
True that I don't use a case. It has fallen apart years ago and didn't bother to get a new one. I was using gestures while I had the case, too, but I don't remember how was it it usability.
I'd kill for a sub-6" phone with a physical telephoto lens.
Because there is no demand, display manufacturers don't produce small phone displays anymore. And because there's no small display in stock, phone manufacturers have given up on producing small smartphones. Technically, you can contract the display manufacturers to restart production of small phone displays, but no one seems to be interested in taking the upfront risk.
Haven't watched the video but he is one of the reasons and a strong one. He has really big hands and has been pushing flagship devices since forever.
I have really big hands too, and even with those, really big phone sizes are just not practical, IMHO. Unless one has giant NBA player tennis racket sized hands, past 6” to 6.2”, you just can’t comfortably hold your phone and reach every part of the screen without shifting it around all the time.
I have pretty small hands and I use a 6.7" phone with no trouble. (As a size reference, I can comfortably reach the frets on a 3/4 size electric bass or a guitar, but a full size electric bass is too big for me and I can't play without moving my hand a lot more than you're supposed to.)
I don’t disagree you may find it comfortable, I just genuinely don’t understand how you do it. I guess you don’t mind the shuffling around that comes with typing a button in the opposite corner of the screen, but I personally do. When holding my phone with one hand in a position I can type in and the phone just won’t slide down to the floor, my thumb just doesn’t reach the opposite corner of the screen without shifting the phone in my hand.
I think it's a matter if habits mostly. After thinking about it more, it seems I almost always use my phone with both hands. With one hand it does feel pretty awkward and unstable if I'm trying to do something complicated like typing. I can use it one handed and it's fine for something like scrolling through social media or controlling a music player. I also use a launcher (Niagara) that happens to be designed well for using one handed on a big phone (but that's not why I use it).
It could also be an Android vs iPhone issue. I use Android, and the back gesture is really convenient no matter how you're holding the phone. I've noticed that iOS doesn't seem to have a back gesture, and the back button in a lot of apps is in the worst possible place for one handed use. I think there's an overall trend in Android apps to put the most important controls at the bottom of the screen, but in my (admittedly very fuzzy) recollections of Apple apps, they seem more inclined to put buttons at the top.
Dunno if it’s really an Android vs iOS thing considering I’ve been on Android since forever before the last 3 months. But yeah it probably has to do with usage patterns, of how you use your phone. I barely ever use mine two-handed unless I’m typing more than a sentence or two. I mostly navigate and interact with apps more than I type.
My hands are also tiny and smol, and I'm also clumsy, but I have no issues with my S23 Ultra. 🤷🏼♀️
Meanwhile, the Galaxy S line:
Seriously, the Zenfone 10 and S24 have the same size in practice. I don't know what the hell he's talking about.
did you watch the video, basically the next Zenfone is a ROG phone lite.
and i say this as a ZF9 user.
Yes, but we still have the S line. So I don't know about this whole "small flagship is dead" thing.
it's more or less the idea that companies are starting to ditch the idea. Apple introduced the mini with 12, and 13, and ditched it for the plus models after 2 generations. Asus had it for the 9 and 10, and 11 (so far) is only launching with an Ultra, ditching it after 2 generations. Samsung just has the unique position that its catalog is large enough that itll have some reasonable in terms of SOC, but not technically flagship as it lacks the camera functionality of the top model.
I guess I'm having a little trouble about the "flagship" definition then. I always assumed that the S line was the best Samsung has to offer, the Pro line was the best from Apple, and so it goes. So the S24 and the 15 Pro are flagships, and those have the same size of the Zenfone 10.
But if "flagship" is only the most expensive phone from a company, I'd argue that the ROG phones are flagships from ASUS, not the Zenfone ones. IDK.
The S24 Ultra is the flagship, as it has the 200 MP camera that the normal S24 does not have: https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=12773&idPhone2=12771
The baseline S series is not a flagship product. Samsung deliberately cuts features from it to sell their actual flagship, the Ultra series. A definition of flagship:
The baseline S series is not the best. It is also not the most important, because it sells considerably less than the Ultra.
Flagship does not mean "it has an 8 series Snapdragon or equivalent inside". This has never been the definition of flagship. Please stop using the word like this.
I definitely think Apple and Samsung can do a smaller premium phone if they want to as Apple makes the lion's share of profits in the industry and Samsung is the only other manufacturer that makes a significant amount of profit. Heck Samsung can probably do a smaller midrange phone as well. I do not think it makes sense for other manufacturers as they make 3% profit and targeting a very vocal but demanding minority isn't going to help them improve that.
Small phone users should also temper their expectation, I saw a lot of comments from people saying they didn't get the iPhone mini because they expected the Pro Max's specs in the mini form factor. They have to understand that the cameras on the biggest flagships occupy a lot of space and it isn't feasible to bring it to a smaller form factor. Increasing the thickness might help with the battery but that's about the only component that benefits with an increase in one dimension.
Not... Really... Sure it makes some difference, but the much more constraining factor is the money. Cameras arent that big, but they're one of the priciest pieces of hardware in the device.
The problem is more that they keep trying to sell small phones at cheaper price points. So they end up with much worse screens, socs, and cameras so they perform like shit. People don't want a small phone because they don't care about their phone. People want small phones because the standard size is fucking huge. They need to make a high-ish tier small phone instead of low tier small phone that performs like the 50 Walmart shit.
There's isn't enough physical space for three sensors on a smaller phone especially if it's the size of the iPhone mini. They can fit them on a 6.1-6.2 inch device, that's why the S24 and iPhone 15 Pro have them. However the 16 Pro is supposedly getting larger because it's getting a larger sensor for 5x optical zoom. If you look at a periscope lens, it needs a substantial amount of extra width as well. A teardown of any recent flagship reveals that camera modules occupy more space than they did if you look at tearsowns from three or four years back. This makes sense because the sensor itself is increasing in size and the size needs to go up both length and width wise to maintain the aspect ratio of the sensor. Heck in some cases like the Xiaomi 14 Ultra and Oppo Find X7 Ultra, the camera modules occupy more space than the rest of the motherboard.
The iPhone mini was cheaper but it had pretty much the same specs as the regular iPhone except for wireless charging speed iirc. Sales were much lower than the regular model despite that (around or less than 5% of total iPhone 12 and 13 sales). If Apple couldn't make a smaller phone sell particularly well, I doubt anyone else could.
I wouldn't go as far as to claim that "more cameras" is the complaints being made here. Sure, telephotos make sense as things that take up more space. But most people are using them for like 1 in 50 shots or something. I have an extremely hard time believing that someone would genuinely notice the difference unless they're an extreme case or they've been told the other ones are better. Within reasonable effective focal lengths, these are pretty negligible in the sizes we're talking about.
I hard disagree with this. Apple is literally the worst company to try to make this shit work. Apple's core selling point is the status symbol of it all. People trying to show off having the flashiest phone are not going to buy a product being touted as a half baked smaller and cheaper version of something else. Their entire marketing was about it being mini. Apple customers are not the core audience for something like this, and Apple marketed it as exactly what people disliked about small phones.
I find it more surprising that this was below expectations than I do that only 5% of people bought a smaller phone. I doubt much more than 1 in 20 people really is after a smaller phone. I'm sure they exist, but based on the people I know and the number of people I've heard interested in smaller phones, I'd estimate it more like 1 in 20 to 1 in 40. It's not for most people by any means. But 1 in 20 is still a decent number of people.
First of all sorry for the delayed reply but i only got the notification a few hours back for some reason.
It is one of the most common complaints cited against buying a smaller phone especially in tech enthusiast circles. Some people say they ended up getting the bigger phone because it had better cameras or the presence of the telephoto was enough.
We'll have to disagree. Apple have been one of the best at maintaining equality between a larger phone and a smaller phone in recent times since they manufacture phones in enough volume to actually care about miniaturizing components. The minis had feature parity with the regular iPhones of that year. The Pros are larger but they've maintained feature parity with the Pro Max in most instances except for the 12 Pro/12 Pro Max and 15 Pro/15 Pro Max. Even with those two instances the only difference was in the cameras. I'll acknowledge there's no fair comparison with Google or Samsung but that's only because they don't make a smaller Pro/Ultra phone. Even if they did, I'm fairly sure the cameras would be different.
In the volumes Apple sells, that probably equates to a couple of million units. 5% would not be a very attractive proposition for other manufacturers since they'd need to increase profit margins to actually make money from making a smaller phone as they deal with much smaller volumes.
Every time there is a small phone thread here or on reddit most of the comments are from people complaining that there is no small phone with the equivalent features of their near 7-inch flagship. People do not seem to weigh size in the same way as other features and are not willing to make compromises for it. Small phone fans need to think seriously about how important and practical all their supposedly "essential" high end features actually are versus physical size. There have been plenty of chances to buy and own smaller phones in the past and these people didn't buy them because they weren't perfect. This is the result.
Yeah it's strange some of them expect the exact same specs as the Pro or Ultra phone in a smaller form factor. Some sacrifices have to be made to fit components in a smaller form factor as you cannot overcome the laws of physics. I've seen many ridiculous comments saying manufacturers can fit the same cameras and all the sensors along with a bigger battery if they made the phone thicker. It's almost as if they expect the bigger phone to get neutered to maintain parity.
The S23 and S24 are solid phones at a regular size. So Samsung already do normal sized flagships. It's the mid-low range that is lacking, they are all oversized in that price range, so people don't have much choice but to buy an oversized phone.
Yeah they're regular sized, you could consider the iPhone 15 and 15 Pro as regular sized as well. I think they could probably do a smaller phone about the size of the iPhone 12/13 mini as well if they wanted to. However I'm not sure if they'll do it since the S22 is their smallest phones since the S10e and they haven't gone smaller than that unless you go all the way back to the S4 (which itself has a similar width to the S10e). I understand why they wouldn't do it because it seems the people who want an iPhone 5S to iPhone mini sized phone are extremely vocal but that doesn't seem to translate to numbers in real life.
People would probably buy smaller phones if given the correct choices, I think the iPhone 15 size is good yeah. iPhone is often a fashion statement, so people usually want the highest end they can get and manufacturers tend to put more features in their bigger more expensive models.
There's no options in the mid-range for smaller phones, most are over 6.5 inches. So people are forced into buying them, there's definitely a large market for small phones, but manufacturers force them into larger models. I suspect they are easier/cheaper to make, so that's what we get. Also bigger numbers = better right, so they'd rather crank the marketing on battery, screen etc.
I don't think they're going to be able to put the same cameras on a smaller phone, especially if you look at something like the Xiaomi 14 Ultra or the Oppo Find X7 Ultra. The sensors are massive and require a lot of space. You may be able to fit two of those sensors on a 6.1 inch phone without compromising on other things like the battery, haptics, antennae for example. They could probably fit a bigger battery by making the phone thicker but it seems like manufacturers like a uniform thickness for most of their models or somewhere thereabouts probably because it's easier to machine the frame.
Of course there's some limitations yeah, though the S24 and iPhone 15 have great cameras, more than enough for the majority of people. Most people aren't power users and won't even look at specs in-depth, just a glance at what it looks like, storage and price. Size would definitely be a factor people would consider (and already do when they can) and it's a real shame there aren't more options.
To be honest looking at the teardowns it's impressive what Apple and Samsung have managed to fit in their phones, I think the Xiamoi 14 Ultra isn't doing itself any favours with that camera placement though, seems inefficient having the modules in the middle of the phone?
I'm not a fan of the cameras on the S24 and base iPhone 15. Samsung have recycled the same cameras for three generations now, I think they can put a larger primary sensor in there.
Idk, Apple does a better job with the Pro as compared to the regular model. Google, Xiaomi and Asus managed to fit bigger batteries on the Pixel 8, Xiaomi 14 and Zenfone 10 without increasing the size too much. Here's a teardown of the Xiaomi 14 Ultra. It seems like they're using space pretty efficiently in there.
Fair enough, but I think for most people the cameras are more than enough. I haven't used the iPhone ones but the Samsung ones are honestly fantastic already. It's diminishing returns past that point, like it's buying an actual camera territory.
It feels like with the cameras in the middle, they have to have smaller PCB area around them? Whereas if they are to the side, there's a larger space for a PCB. I don't know though, I think the phone is ugly anyway.
Yeah that's a fair point. I don't like the output of the primary sensor and the 3x on the S24. Feels like they oversharpen and oversaturate colours way too much. Also feel the hardware is lacking compared to the Pixel 8 and iPhone 15 Pro's sensor as they're physically bigger and don't have as much of a problem with shutter lag.
Yeah I agree, there's always room for improvement, but if having smaller phones means sacrificing on camera a bit I don't mind personally. Samsung probably should have upgraded sensors, but I guess they share the same "its good enough" sentiment I have about that. I'd trade an entire sensor for a micro SD card slot and a 3.5mm port!
I hate small phones. I switched back to an iphone SE years ago and realized it was a pita to use anymore. Everything is.. too small.
It started as a hardware problem and doesn't seem to be slowing down. LTE needed more and larger antennae for lower frequencies than older tech. Four cellular antennae are now pretty standard. Then you have wifi, Bluetooth (which can share if they can TDM), wireless charging, NFC, ultra wideband, GNSS. Then the chips are so powerful they need heat dissipation systems installed (or just lame thermal throttling like what Apple does.)
The modems require more power, (especially at the beginning of LTE) which means bigger batteries. LTE and NR have reduced range compared to the older narrowband technologies, so the phone needs to use more power to transmit, especially when carriers like Verizon didn't backfill cell sites to compensate for the reduced coverage.
Then, cameras, one wasn't enough, 4 or 5 are very common now (usually 3 primary and depth or low res sensors for aiming.)
When tablets became popular, many people decided to just have a large phone screen rather than a tablet, further entrenching the size.
The tech is more mature now, a 2-antenna MIMO antenna for cellular would suffice, albeit at the expense of network performance. Likewise one camera with a depth sensor would work, although mobile photography would be more limited. Dropping some limited-use items like wireless charging and ultra wideband could further shrink space.
So it would be possible now, but as others here have mentioned, the supply side focuses on larger hardware.
Ironically, at this point I'd almost prefer a smart watch with LTE and stop carrying a phone altogether. However, the aforementioned antenna issue makes it so watches generally have poor to unusable signal, poor battery life in cellular mode, no camera, and the 5G NR low power spec/chips aren't fully done yet, so it's LTE only on them, which, with carriers transitioning to 5G will make it so watches can only access a handful of congested bands.
Also, that device manufacturers tend to design smart watches to be companion devices to a smartphone rather than primary makes that concept's execution problematic.
Another idea I had that was anti small phone but huge battery boost was to just bring a backpack or a satchel or whatever. Carry a full sized tablet around, and use a Bluetooth headset for calls. However, tablets are also often crippled by carriers/manufacturers so they can't do common things like SMS or voice calls, and Apple has basically monopolized that market.
Bigger screens make it easier to use as my main computer, thank you.
I couldn't resist. I'm sorry
Dom Joly moment
BIG
I actually think the opposite is true as well. Phones these days mostly exist between 6.2 and 6.8". We don't actually have any huge phones as like the Galaxy Mega 6.3 (which with modern 19:9 aspect ratio screens and smaller bezels would be more like 7.5") don't exist either
I used to like small phones. I thought the form factor of my erstwhile iPhone 5 was perfect.
But then I got older, and my eyesight got worse. Reading small fonts on small screens is becoming increasingly difficult, but I'm not yet at the point where I have to wear glasses or contacts all the time. I also don't like just increasing font sizes, as I lose screen realestate. So I'm kinda starting to see why some people like phones with bigger screens.
I don't get why you'd want a smaller phone unless you're looking to get one in a flip-phone style form factor. I'd be down for that. I miss being able to accurately text from my pocket.
Being able to hold the phone comfortably and securely in your hand is really important for me. I'd love to be able to reach the vast majority of the screen without having to shuffle the phone in my hand or use two hands. I very rarely watch any videos on my phone, or play any games that require a large screen.
My wifes iPhone 12 Mini is a perfect size.
One-handed mode exists if you need to reach the whole area of the interface with one hand, albeit it won't help if grip is an issue. Maybe a pop socket kinda thing for that?
Have you heard of women? Or maybe teenagers with not-so-large hands?
Most larger phones have a single-hand mode that gives you kind of a picture-in-picture of the screen itself.
Are you stupid...? You still have to hold the phone in one hand. One-handed mode doesn't change the physical width of the phone.
Ok? The issue wasn't clearly defined. There's always pop sockets and similar to make it easier to hold. That said, my teenaged kids have 0 be issue holding this phone so idk what OP is on about
Because I don't want this giant thing in my pocket that's also hard to hold, let alone use one handed.
Using one handed isn't really an issue if you toggle the one-handed mode...
Galaxy S3 was comfortable to chat and surf. One or two words less per line but it fit in your pocket and your hand didn't get tired from the weight.
I went S2 -> S5 -> S8+ -> Note 10+ -> S23 Ultra
Never really felt my phone was too big, though there are times where I've got a show to go to and wish I had a cheap flip phone to fall back on. The older phones seemed fine at the time until I realized how much better the bigger screens were. I'm not sure I'd want one bigger than the S23 Ultra, unless it folded out to a tablet.
I just went phone shopping not too long ago and had the opposite experience. Bigger phones are way harder to find now. Where the hell are the 6 or 7 inchers? 😩
That's what she said... sighs
A small phone is useless unless your only goal with it is receiving calls. Even making calls on a small phone is difficult, never mind using the Internet. And losing a larger one still happens, a small one would just disappear like a sock in the dryer.
Sure, there are times when having a bigger phone makes sense, but it hurts a whole lot less when I'm in bed watching something and i drop it on my face.
Have you tried not doing that?
To answer your question, no.
A small phone is fine to take photo/video, send messages, make calls, view video content, and play games. Any other use case is more appropriate for another device.
Why would any of these things be worse with a 4.5" screen? My eyesight is fine.
Navigation.
Cars have 12" tablets for dashboards now 💀
That's a different mess, and there's some serious pushback on that to bring back actual buttons and dials. 🤣
but seriously, I just navigate by sound only
With one exception, I've only had phone that would be classed as small by today's standards for the past ten years, the largest being a Pixel 4a and the smallest being a Sony X Compact. I preferred the size of the Sony.
I rarely make voice calls. I use my phone for messaging, light web browsing, notes, reading, watching videos, podcasts, navigation, occasional gaming, and photography when I've made the mistake of leaving the house without my real camera. I prefer smaller phones because they're easier to use one-handed.
That one exception is a Pixel 3a XL with a broken cellular modem I bought at a low price to test ROMs and mount on the handlebars of my bike where the vibration is likely to damage the camera. I do occasionally use it for media (video and books) where the larger screen is an advantage, but I would dislike carrying it in my pocket or using it for most tasks where I would have to use both hands.