There has been no claim that this individual fired on FBI agents, or even that he was armed at the time of the fatal altercation today. Apparently a giant squad of militarized personnel was incapable of apprehending a 75 year old man without gunning him down on his doorstep.
In Buffalo, a 75 year old man who was trying to turn in lost property during a protest; the police shoved him to the ground so hard that he was bleeding from his head, but they just stepped over his body. Breonna Taylor was sleeping when cops raided the wrong apartment. Charles Kinsey was shot lying facedown in the street with his hands in the air while trying to protect his autistic patient.
They're fine with all the other "poor outcome" police shootings in this country, they only get upset and fearful when one of "their own" is shot.
I get what you are trying to say, but she wasn’t sleeping at the time of the shooting. No need to rely on misinformation to here. The truth is damning enough for police.
Claim: Taylor was shot while she was asleep in bed
Various social media posts and media reports have said Louisville police gunned down Taylor as she was asleep in bed.
Commonwealth's Attorney Tom Wine played partial recordings of police interviews with Walker during a May 22, 2020, news conference in which Walker told police he and Taylor were watching a movie in bed — it was “watching them more than we were watching it,” he said — when they heard a loud bang at the door, scaring both of them.
Walker said he initially thought it might’ve been Taylor's former boyfriend, but there was no response when Taylor twice called out, “Who is it?”
Then, Walker, saying he was "scared to death," grabbed his legally owned handgun.”
getting your door kicked in by a gang of cops about to shoot you to death tends to wake a person up
what misinformation?
Here is the wiki on it. If your husband had a full conversation with his mother about noises coming from below and then calls 911 and then gets his gun, could you still be asleep at that point? She was, however, still in bed and the no knock shouldn't have been allowed.
could you still be asleep at that point?
do you have proof she wasn’t?
I don't know what you and that other guy are arguing about. I just laid out that it was noisy and her husband made two calls and got a gun. Whether or not she was still asleep could only be confirmed by the two people in the room. One is dead and one has legal and legitimate reasons why he might exaggerate a claim like that. Either way, it shouldn't matter on the argument that no knock raids should be banned.
not wanting to go to jail for murder is a legitimate reason to exaggerate a claim
Claim: Taylor was shot while she was asleep in bed
Various social media posts and media reports have said Louisville police gunned down Taylor as she was asleep in bed.
Commonwealth's Attorney Tom Wine played partial recordings of police interviews with Walker during a May 22, 2020, news conference in which Walker told police he and Taylor were watching a movie in bed — it was “watching them more than we were watching it,” he said — when they heard a loud bang at the door, scaring both of them.
Walker said he initially thought it might’ve been Taylor's former boyfriend, but there was no response when Taylor twice called out, “Who is it?”
Then, Walker, saying he was "scared to death," grabbed his legally owned handgun.
Claim: Taylor was shot while she was asleep in bed
I never claimed this
also, you link doesn’t prove this:
If your husband had a full conversation with his mother about noises coming from below and then calls 911 and then gets his gun, could you still be asleep at that point?
and it doesn’t prove she was awake at the time, ether. people doze off while watching movies.
and it doesn’t prove she was awake at the time, ether. people doze off while watching movies.
I provided a good source that directly refutes your claim, with a statement from the witness at the scene. You clearly don't care about the truth, and just want to "win."
with a statement from the witness at the scene
I didn’t see any statements supporting any of your claims or refuting mine
Bullshit. You are arguing in bad faith and you 100% know it.
just because you can’t prove your claims, you start hurling personal insults?
“Breonna Taylor Was Asleep.” Yes, she was asleep the night/morning of the shooting. No, she was not asleep when she was shot.
She was gravely wronged, and what happened is entirely inexcusable. However, statements that confuse people on the facts of the situation do not help the cause.
Edit: It seems my memory was faulty, per Walker's statement, they were watching a movie in bed when police came to the door.
getting your door kicked in by a gang of cops about to shoot you to death tends to wake a person up
Like I said:
She was gravely wronged, and what happened is entirely inexcusable. However, statements that confuse people on the facts of the situation do not help the cause.
statements that confuse people on the facts of the situation
where did I do this?
Well, for one thing it turns out Breonna Taylor wasn't even asleep.
Sorry, I'm a bit confused as to what you are saying?
Simple. It's some of the worst behavior on reddit, on a garbage sub full of garbage people.
Basically someone who loves it when cops murder black people for them is like "It's totally an awful thing that this happened, but" and then launch into a defense of whatever racist piece of shit is the topic of discussion.
Too bad that shit can't stay on reddit where shit belongs.
What are you even talking about? Is that what you are assuming I am saying?
If so, what specifically did I say that led you to believe this?
What are you even talking about?
I already explained it. I'm not wasting more effort on you.
I don't understand the value of this comment and it seems like it's being pedantic and splitting hairs for an unimportant reason. Whether or not she was sleeping when the bullet entered her is ignoring the main point. If you want to call it misinformation then that's really stretching the term for misinformation.
So the reason I care is that every half-truth is a chink in the armor of the overall cause. Social and racial justice are incredibly important causes. When people make bold statements that aren't entirely factual, the opposition points to them in order to discredit the cause as a whole. I want to persuade the persuadable by being factually correct whenever possible.
I do understand your overall point though.
No it isn't. What matters is what sounds convincing to other human beings and claiming, "They were watching a movie in bed, therefore they were not sleeping" is a non-issue in the minds of others at best. What matters is that she was in bed and unaware. She might as well have been sleeping.
People do have common sense, you know
Look, I tend to believe that "common sense is nothing more than a deposit of prejudices laid down in the mind before you reach eighteen.”[1] People perceive the world differently from one another, and have different lived experiences. This is especially true for neurodivergent people when compared to people we might think of as neurotypical.
"Breonna Taylor Was Asleep" is a factually inaccurate statement. The specifics may be a non-issue for you, but they might be a major holdup for someone who thinks differently.
And that's why we compare experiences and share knowledge through debate to reach a consensus. Which is a fundamental part of common sense
Is it though? An appeal to common sense has been used to justify any number of horrors historically. It depends heavily on the culture you are in.
Debate is most certainly used to persuade and test the strength of an argument. In debate, however, common sense is sometimes used in place of logical reasoning for things the speaker believes should simply be understood.
Every argument under the sun is used to justify atrocities. Common sense is what susses them out.
Common sense is fundamental to being human and it's all we have to rely on whether you like it or not. Demanding others ignore it is to make them complacent and supportive of atrocity. Common sense is what snaps people out of it.
Now you can quibble about semantics all you want to, you just won't do it to me. Trying to undermine the Breonna Taylor tragedy will get you nowhere... and we can see, with our common sense, that that is what's happening here.
Let's back up for a second.
Can you definite what you understand "common sense" to be.
Also, do you think "common sense" varies between cultures?
If you are one of the people downvoting this comment - you really need to reexamine your way of thinking.
The dude is just trying to correct the factual record. If you look at that, and those facts are unfriendly to your collection of how you like to feel about the situation and so you downvote him/her or start a protracted argument with him/her about it -- that means biases are more important to you than factual accuracy.
I think, like any sensible person, that what happened to Breonna Taylor was a heinous crime and the cops involved should be punished. But, I also think the facts of the situation are important. She wasn't shot while she was sleeping.
Again, if you're downvoting, it means supporting your own biases is more important to you than the facts, and that's dangerous. That is exactly what the MAGA crowd does and part of what makes them so dangerous and so difficult to communicate with. So please don't do the same from "the other side."
I appreciate the take. It's not a great feeling to have "the side" you feel like you are on rail at you for trying to set the record straight.
It feels weird to say this, but I wonder if the "Tankies" from certain instances color Lemmy as a whole. If so, that makes me worried for the future of Lemmy. I really don't want this to be the Far Left version of The_Donald or Truth Social.
Yeah, I don't think any political viewpoint is free from people who just like their prejudices and attack anything that doesn't match their prejudices. I wish it was different on the left, but sadly not.
FWIW, I've had a lengthy argument and said some plenty unpopular things in a tankie forum on Lemmy and didn't get banned, so we're still quite a ways away from the conservative ethos. I feel like as long as there's freedom of speech about it, the problem is self-correcting in the long run. Maybe.
(I literally had someone on /r/walkaway tell me that I could say whatever I wanted, that they believe in free speech absolutism and exchange of ideas etc etc, and then when I went to reply to them, I couldn't because I was banned. 😃)
I bet they're the same ones that don't want body cams or investigations into excessive policing...
If only he'd complied...
He did tell them, come back with a warrant, which they did.
Just respond to them that he should've obeyed and he'd be alive
#JUST COMPLY
A 75-year-old with a gun IS Trump's base, and is just as dangerous as a teenager with a gun. Possibly more so because of the sheer delusions this voting base has. Who wants to guess as usual the the alt right is downplaying yet another terrorist event on their side.
Guy was armed and was making detailed death threats. If I was sent in to apprehend him you better believe I'm going in using as much force as I can to guarantee I'll see my family for dinner after.
This commentary is reminiscent of the radical right’s reactions to the Ruby Ridge incident of 1992, an 11-day standoff in Idaho between federal agents and the family of Randy Weaver, a Christian fundamentalist affiliated with the far-right white separatist movement. The standoff resulted in the deaths of Weaver’s wife, son, and a federal marshal.
Dude... Ruby Ridge was a big deal because the FBI shot Randy Weaver in the back while he was lifting the latch to his shed to see his son's body, and then kept shooting at him as he and his family was running back to his cabin, hitting and killing his wife while she was holding their baby. It was a huge deal for a lot of people, Randy Weaver was found not guilty of any "siege-related charges" and awarded $3 million in damages, and the DOJ extensively revised their policies as a result.
Craig Deleeuw threatened to kill the president, and then according to the FBI and I see no reason to doubt them, was pointing his weapon at the FBI when they shot him. Whatever Randy Weaver did to create the Ruby Ridge confrontation, I don't think it's fair to compare the reaction to that to the reaction to this.
The guy that said federal agents wouldn't dare arrest him "because they'd get a .45 in the face"? He pointed a gun at the FBI?
Say it ain't so
Still, the Ruby Ridge and Waco comparisons are frightening. This is where the radical right really started to emerge. There was a great podcast series that I listened to about it. Here it is: Long Shadow (Apple) or Spotify link
Craig DeLeeuw Robertson was an American retiree from Provo, Utah who allegedly threatened online to assassinate President of the United States Joe Biden and other government officials and was subsequently shot and killed by agents of the FBI on August 9, 2023 when they attempted to execute search and arrest warrants.
He allegedly referenced the president's scheduled Thursday visit to Utah and threatened to dig out camouflage gear and a rifle.
In other posts, Robertson identifies himself as a “MAGA TRUMPER” and describes one of his rifles as a “DEMOCRAT ERADICATOR.”
The complaint included screenshots from Robertson’s profile where he threatened to shoot (New York County District Attorney Alvin Bragg, who is prosecuting a criminal case against former President Donald Trump) in a courthouse parking garage. But when FBI agents confronted Robertson, he said it was a dream, according to the complaint.
Days after FBI agents spoke with Robertson on March 19 and told him they were investigating his social media posts, Robertson started posting content addressed to the FBI itself. He often said he knew they were watching what he was posting, and that the agents who spoke to him came close to being shot.
So they didn't march in and assassinate him; they've been trying to get him to calm down since March and he still posts threats...
Far right figures will always claim this and stoke stochastic terrorism. So go vote in 2024. Actually, go vote in every local election. We got a lot of terrorism fixing to do.
It is amazing how they are always the badass and victim in their own story.
Some FCC licensed corporate shill expresses a viewpoint slightly to the right of average and at the same time they are a radical freethinker truthteller who is being threatened, censored, and attacked.
Yeah buddy you arent special. You work for the man same as the rest of us. If you cross a line that costs them money they will fire you.
It is amazing how they are always the badass and victim in their own story.
This is fascism. Just pointing it out for everyone scrolling by. Not "everyone I hate is a Nazi". No, that contradiction is a key part of fascism. We cannot play nicely with those who aren't intent on even playing the same game.
We need to do more than just voting
Projection is at the core of GOP
Which makes me legitimately scared about what happens if/when they get control of the executive branch again.
When, not if.
You got downvoted because it’s an uncomfortable statement, but you’re not wrong. Conservatives are very good at riling up voters, whereas democrats seem to present the most milquetoast candidates at every single opportunity.
The biggest opponent for conservatives is liberals; The biggest opponent for liberals consistently seems to be other liberals. Because liberals have repeatedly shown that even when they have full control of the legislative and executive branches, they’re still ineffective at passing meaningful legislation. Meanwhile, conservatives are really really good at presenting a unified front. They’re able to fall in line and vote on unpopular things without worrying about pissing off half of their voter base.
True when they're passing monstrous legislation. However, another feature of conservative politics is constant in-fighting and back-biting. They're frequently throwing each other under the bus, recording conversations and leaking them, etc. It's pretty entertaining when you can step back from the horror of it all.
I would worry. If the Biden administration wanted you dead they would
Step 1: conduct polls on the matter
Step 2: send a begging letter to the GOP asking for permission
Step 3: open negotiations with the GOP and gives them whatever they want.
Step 4: spend ten months at Town hall meeting to convince the liberal base
Step 5: get approval from Congress
Step 6: fight the court battles
Step 7: lose in the Supreme Court when Roberts vomits all over it.
Step 8: repeat the process with a watered down version, maybe not kill me, maybe just give me a head injury and let god decide.
.....
You would be fine for at least 20 years and then get a letter saying "you are a bad person.". Not even a !
“you are a bad person.”
Nah, that's too spicy for Democrats. Their letter would accuse them of having no "shame", or "honor", as if any Republican gives a shit about those concepts.
This is what cracks me up:
The Democrats are both ominously powerful and painfully ineffective at the same time. Even of the January 6th rioters, only the criminally stupid died, and most got a slap on the wrist.
We are all domestic terrorists
It explains their concern...
Haha the far right have been threatening to kill liberals for a few years now and are itching for an real civil war. Most of the threats I read about are made in their Telegram channels, but they all say how they're stocking up on guns and ammo and waiting for the go-ahead.
Fortunately the relevant authorities are well-aware of the threat.
Orwell on Hitler:
It is a pathetic, dog-like face, the face of a man suffering under intolerable wrongs. In a rather more manly way it reproduces the expression of innumerable pictures of Christ crucified, and there is little doubt that that is how Hitler sees himself. The initial, personal cause of his grievance against the universe can only be guessed at; but at any rate the grievance is here. He is the martyr, the victim, Prometheus chained to the rock, the self-sacrificing hero who fights single-handed against impossible odds. If he were killing a mouse he would know how to make it seem like a dragon.
Like the cop who beats up his wife, then cries because she made him do it, and convinces himself he's really the victim of the whole debacle.
well, if they’re shifting the definition of “conservative” to what others call a “domestic terrorist who made death threats against the President and then had a shootout with the FBI rather than surrender,” then yeah, those people should watch out.
They are
The guy was going into detail about what it would like to see his victims dying. I haven't seen info on what exactly triggered the shooting.
One guy pointed out his age and "Why did they need all those cops?". I don't care if you are 75, you can still pull the trigger on a semi-auto gun.
He pointed a gun at the FBI agents serving a warrant. This was not an execution, it was an old white guy who's never had his privilege checked before.
These are po dunk cops shooting a dog. These are FBI agents, if they shot him, he pulled a gun on them. They put him under surveillance. They approached him in public and asked to talk to him. Guy went angry old fuck on them and told them to come back with a warrant, so they did. If he was shot and killed, he brought it on himself, by his actions, that warranted being shot and killed.
He was also taunting and threatening the FBI on his social media after he was told that they were monitoring it. Just because it's online doesn't make it not a threat. You're 100% right and I don't understand how anyone doesn't see this.
"Just try to take me coppers!"
Or any gun generally
Keep making direct terrorist threats and watch what happens.
Don't tolerate the intolerant. That's how you protect democracy.
Snake choked on its own tail today.
Fear mongering far right "journalists" terrifying fragile old, broken white men until they threaten the president's life constantly. Then the FBI knocks on their door in seemingly valid response and the fragile, frightened old man likely comes to the door with a loaded AR-15, a grenade belt and a blue lives matter t-shirt. His heroes in law enforcement, who are at the same time infallible super beings and complicit traitors tell him to drop the weapon, he refuses... And no more Walter.
The next day, the same fear mongering far right "journalists" tell the "story" of Walter, an innocent martyr, silenced by the JOE BRANDON!
Con artists and cowards.
Just more projection, since conservatives have been getting away with murder openly for decades.
Whatever, they've been claiming that for years. They said the Clintons would come kill them because of Waco.
They're still really sad when Obama took all their guns back in 2012. That's why Republicans are so insecure, because they don't have any guns! The government took them all. I think they sent them to Mexico, or something.
Right??
Don't forget Jade Helm when they knocked all the Conservatives' doors down and marched them into concentration camps that used to be Walmarts.
I am still traumatized from being in daycare when all those satanists came and we had orgies. Plus that time me and my brother listened to a heavy metal record backwards and we're told to worship Satan.
And murdered their grandparents with Obamacare.
What about Freedom of Speech and 2A?
Why can't I buy a ton of guns and ammo and send death threats while drawing detailed maps of each target and how I plan to commit those actions with a detailed agenda?
HOW IS THAT AGAINST THE LAW?!
Of course they are. Their entire political ideology is based on fear. They know their voters are cowards, and they need them to remain that way. If they can be property scared, they can be properly controlled.
Well I mean if they are going to make these claims, who are we to disappoint them???
Im just glad they are coming out of the woodwork before they harm any innocent people.
It will probably take 1 more black president for us to weed out the last of them, that last time drove them nuts.
I think you are missing the idea that there is an endless supply of these people. More people are born every day and more people find out about and join these groups as well. It's not like their membership is locked and once the lot of them get put in the ground or thrown in jail it's over. That's not how things work. Go reead the posts from the last few weeks. They're raising a whole new batch of even more radicalized young males. Shit won't stop because the reasons for them to join these groups hasn't gone away.
Lmao, yep!!
Wasn't the guy killed, outed by people on his own truth social site too? So they threw their own to the wolves and then want to pretend they are being targeted? Lmao.
outed by people on his own truth social site too?
If that's true, why the heck aren't more people making a big deal about that?? The Left should be taunting these clowns with that fact.
I could be wrong, but I first read it on reddit. When the story first broke, I heard that he went on Truth social to make his threats. Someone or someoneS on the site reported his threats because they were direct assassination threats on Biden... Then he was served with the notice of being under surveillance and then he just dug his heels in, making more threats. The FBI then got a warrant and tried to serve itz while being met with this looney and his guns... So he was 'taken care of'.
He got what he deserved.
We were still too merciful to this treasonous bastard, but yeah he was delt with, properly.
There's a bit too much danger in using a holistic, super-operative "they" in thinking like that.
There are absolutely conservatives out there that have somewhat more logical, level-headed thinking at work, but get freaked out by their "We need death penalty for all liberals, immediately" neighbors. Probably somewhere out there is a conservative neighbor of his that's privately glad the FBI went after him.
The tips to the FBI came from truth social
At least conservatives are acknowledging that they're terrorists
....but, but, but they are "true patriots" all at the same time!1!!
But threatening to murder people online is protected by mUh FiRsT aMeNdMeNt rights!
If that makes them shut up, wouldn't it be a win?
The problem is it won't, because they know it's a lie.
Some reich-winger's tweet quoted in the article:
In Buffalo, a 75 year old man who was trying to turn in lost property during a protest; the police shoved him to the ground so hard that he was bleeding from his head, but they just stepped over his body. Breonna Taylor was sleeping when cops raided the wrong apartment. Charles Kinsey was shot lying facedown in the street with his hands in the air while trying to protect his autistic patient.
They're fine with all the other "poor outcome" police shootings in this country, they only get upset and fearful when one of "their own" is shot.
I get what you are trying to say, but she wasn’t sleeping at the time of the shooting. No need to rely on misinformation to here. The truth is damning enough for police.
Edit: In case y’all need proof.
Courier Journal: Louisville Local Newspaper, Left Leaning
getting your door kicked in by a gang of cops about to shoot you to death tends to wake a person up
what misinformation?
Here is the wiki on it. If your husband had a full conversation with his mother about noises coming from below and then calls 911 and then gets his gun, could you still be asleep at that point? She was, however, still in bed and the no knock shouldn't have been allowed.
do you have proof she wasn’t?
I don't know what you and that other guy are arguing about. I just laid out that it was noisy and her husband made two calls and got a gun. Whether or not she was still asleep could only be confirmed by the two people in the room. One is dead and one has legal and legitimate reasons why he might exaggerate a claim like that. Either way, it shouldn't matter on the argument that no knock raids should be banned.
not wanting to go to jail for murder is a legitimate reason to exaggerate a claim
Source: Courier Journal - Local Newspaper
Claim: Taylor was shot while she was asleep in bed
Various social media posts and media reports have said Louisville police gunned down Taylor as she was asleep in bed.
Commonwealth's Attorney Tom Wine played partial recordings of police interviews with Walker during a May 22, 2020, news conference in which Walker told police he and Taylor were watching a movie in bed — it was “watching them more than we were watching it,” he said — when they heard a loud bang at the door, scaring both of them.
Walker said he initially thought it might’ve been Taylor's former boyfriend, but there was no response when Taylor twice called out, “Who is it?”
Then, Walker, saying he was "scared to death," grabbed his legally owned handgun.
I never claimed this
also, you link doesn’t prove this:
and it doesn’t prove she was awake at the time, ether. people doze off while watching movies.
I provided a good source that directly refutes your claim, with a statement from the witness at the scene. You clearly don't care about the truth, and just want to "win."
I didn’t see any statements supporting any of your claims or refuting mine
Bullshit. You are arguing in bad faith and you 100% know it.
just because you can’t prove your claims, you start hurling personal insults?
that’s on you, not me
“Breonna Taylor Was Asleep.” Yes, she was asleep the night/morning of the shooting. No, she was not asleep when she was shot.She was gravely wronged, and what happened is entirely inexcusable. However, statements that confuse people on the facts of the situation do not help the cause.
Edit: It seems my memory was faulty, per Walker's statement, they were watching a movie in bed when police came to the door.
Source: Courier Journal - Local Newspaper
like he said:
Like I said:
where did I do this?
Well, for one thing it turns out Breonna Taylor wasn't even asleep.
Source: Courier Journal - Local Newspaper
getting your door kicked in by a gang of cops tends to wake you up
I'm referring to the witness statements given by Walker.
what statements of his say that she wasn’t sleeping?
I didn't miss r/publicfreakout.
Sorry, I'm a bit confused as to what you are saying?
Simple. It's some of the worst behavior on reddit, on a garbage sub full of garbage people.
Basically someone who loves it when cops murder black people for them is like "It's totally an awful thing that this happened, but" and then launch into a defense of whatever racist piece of shit is the topic of discussion.
Too bad that shit can't stay on reddit where shit belongs.
What are you even talking about? Is that what you are assuming I am saying?
If so, what specifically did I say that led you to believe this?
I already explained it. I'm not wasting more effort on you.
I don't understand the value of this comment and it seems like it's being pedantic and splitting hairs for an unimportant reason. Whether or not she was sleeping when the bullet entered her is ignoring the main point. If you want to call it misinformation then that's really stretching the term for misinformation.
So the reason I care is that every half-truth is a chink in the armor of the overall cause. Social and racial justice are incredibly important causes. When people make bold statements that aren't entirely factual, the opposition points to them in order to discredit the cause as a whole. I want to persuade the persuadable by being factually correct whenever possible.
I do understand your overall point though.
No it isn't. What matters is what sounds convincing to other human beings and claiming, "They were watching a movie in bed, therefore they were not sleeping" is a non-issue in the minds of others at best. What matters is that she was in bed and unaware. She might as well have been sleeping.
People do have common sense, you know
Look, I tend to believe that "common sense is nothing more than a deposit of prejudices laid down in the mind before you reach eighteen.”[1] People perceive the world differently from one another, and have different lived experiences. This is especially true for neurodivergent people when compared to people we might think of as neurotypical.
"Breonna Taylor Was Asleep" is a factually inaccurate statement. The specifics may be a non-issue for you, but they might be a major holdup for someone who thinks differently.
And that's why we compare experiences and share knowledge through debate to reach a consensus. Which is a fundamental part of common sense
Is it though? An appeal to common sense has been used to justify any number of horrors historically. It depends heavily on the culture you are in.
Debate is most certainly used to persuade and test the strength of an argument. In debate, however, common sense is sometimes used in place of logical reasoning for things the speaker believes should simply be understood.
Every argument under the sun is used to justify atrocities. Common sense is what susses them out.
Common sense is fundamental to being human and it's all we have to rely on whether you like it or not. Demanding others ignore it is to make them complacent and supportive of atrocity. Common sense is what snaps people out of it.
Now you can quibble about semantics all you want to, you just won't do it to me. Trying to undermine the Breonna Taylor tragedy will get you nowhere... and we can see, with our common sense, that that is what's happening here.
Let's back up for a second.
Can you definite what you understand "common sense" to be.
Also, do you think "common sense" varies between cultures?
If you are one of the people downvoting this comment - you really need to reexamine your way of thinking.
The dude is just trying to correct the factual record. If you look at that, and those facts are unfriendly to your collection of how you like to feel about the situation and so you downvote him/her or start a protracted argument with him/her about it -- that means biases are more important to you than factual accuracy.
I think, like any sensible person, that what happened to Breonna Taylor was a heinous crime and the cops involved should be punished. But, I also think the facts of the situation are important. She wasn't shot while she was sleeping.
Again, if you're downvoting, it means supporting your own biases is more important to you than the facts, and that's dangerous. That is exactly what the MAGA crowd does and part of what makes them so dangerous and so difficult to communicate with. So please don't do the same from "the other side."
I appreciate the take. It's not a great feeling to have "the side" you feel like you are on rail at you for trying to set the record straight.
It feels weird to say this, but I wonder if the "Tankies" from certain instances color Lemmy as a whole. If so, that makes me worried for the future of Lemmy. I really don't want this to be the Far Left version of The_Donald or Truth Social.
Yeah, I don't think any political viewpoint is free from people who just like their prejudices and attack anything that doesn't match their prejudices. I wish it was different on the left, but sadly not.
FWIW, I've had a lengthy argument and said some plenty unpopular things in a tankie forum on Lemmy and didn't get banned, so we're still quite a ways away from the conservative ethos. I feel like as long as there's freedom of speech about it, the problem is self-correcting in the long run. Maybe.
(I literally had someone on /r/walkaway tell me that I could say whatever I wanted, that they believe in free speech absolutism and exchange of ideas etc etc, and then when I went to reply to them, I couldn't because I was banned. 😃)
Yeah, I've noticed lack of reading downvoting seems like even more of a problem on Lemmy than on Reddit. Its really bizarre the votes on this thread are completely contradictory for example.
I bet they're the same ones that don't want body cams or investigations into excessive policing...
If only he'd complied...
He did tell them, come back with a warrant, which they did.
Just respond to them that he should've obeyed and he'd be alive
#JUST COMPLY
A 75-year-old with a gun IS Trump's base, and is just as dangerous as a teenager with a gun. Possibly more so because of the sheer delusions this voting base has. Who wants to guess as usual the the alt right is downplaying yet another terrorist event on their side.
Guy was armed and was making detailed death threats. If I was sent in to apprehend him you better believe I'm going in using as much force as I can to guarantee I'll see my family for dinner after.
Yep, never heard these people talk about Michael Reinoehl.
Actually a lot of right-wingers cared about Breonna Taylor. The top post by far on /r/progun is about Breonna Taylor.
They only care as long as it promotes gun rights for white men. They don't care about the disparate impact she and other black women experience.
These are the top 4 posts on the sub though?
Dude... Ruby Ridge was a big deal because the FBI shot Randy Weaver in the back while he was lifting the latch to his shed to see his son's body, and then kept shooting at him as he and his family was running back to his cabin, hitting and killing his wife while she was holding their baby. It was a huge deal for a lot of people, Randy Weaver was found not guilty of any "siege-related charges" and awarded $3 million in damages, and the DOJ extensively revised their policies as a result.
Craig Deleeuw threatened to kill the president, and then according to the FBI and I see no reason to doubt them, was pointing his weapon at the FBI when they shot him. Whatever Randy Weaver did to create the Ruby Ridge confrontation, I don't think it's fair to compare the reaction to that to the reaction to this.
The guy that said federal agents wouldn't dare arrest him "because they'd get a .45 in the face"? He pointed a gun at the FBI?
Say it ain't so
Still, the Ruby Ridge and Waco comparisons are frightening. This is where the radical right really started to emerge. There was a great podcast series that I listened to about it. Here it is: Long Shadow (Apple) or Spotify link
Craig DeLeeuw Robertson was an American retiree from Provo, Utah who allegedly threatened online to assassinate President of the United States Joe Biden and other government officials and was subsequently shot and killed by agents of the FBI on August 9, 2023 when they attempted to execute search and arrest warrants.
He allegedly referenced the president's scheduled Thursday visit to Utah and threatened to dig out camouflage gear and a rifle.
In other posts, Robertson identifies himself as a “MAGA TRUMPER” and describes one of his rifles as a “DEMOCRAT ERADICATOR.”
The complaint included screenshots from Robertson’s profile where he threatened to shoot (New York County District Attorney Alvin Bragg, who is prosecuting a criminal case against former President Donald Trump) in a courthouse parking garage. But when FBI agents confronted Robertson, he said it was a dream, according to the complaint.
Days after FBI agents spoke with Robertson on March 19 and told him they were investigating his social media posts, Robertson started posting content addressed to the FBI itself. He often said he knew they were watching what he was posting, and that the agents who spoke to him came close to being shot.
Additional info from: https://www.sltrib.com/news/2023/08/10/what-we-know-about-provo-man/
So they didn't march in and assassinate him; they've been trying to get him to calm down since March and he still posts threats...
Far right figures will always claim this and stoke stochastic terrorism. So go vote in 2024. Actually, go vote in every local election. We got a lot of terrorism fixing to do.
It is amazing how they are always the badass and victim in their own story.
Some FCC licensed corporate shill expresses a viewpoint slightly to the right of average and at the same time they are a radical freethinker truthteller who is being threatened, censored, and attacked.
Yeah buddy you arent special. You work for the man same as the rest of us. If you cross a line that costs them money they will fire you.
This is fascism. Just pointing it out for everyone scrolling by. Not "everyone I hate is a Nazi". No, that contradiction is a key part of fascism. We cannot play nicely with those who aren't intent on even playing the same game.
We need to do more than just voting
Projection is at the core of GOP
Which makes me legitimately scared about what happens if/when they get control of the executive branch again.
When, not if.
You got downvoted because it’s an uncomfortable statement, but you’re not wrong. Conservatives are very good at riling up voters, whereas democrats seem to present the most milquetoast candidates at every single opportunity.
The biggest opponent for conservatives is liberals; The biggest opponent for liberals consistently seems to be other liberals. Because liberals have repeatedly shown that even when they have full control of the legislative and executive branches, they’re still ineffective at passing meaningful legislation. Meanwhile, conservatives are really really good at presenting a unified front. They’re able to fall in line and vote on unpopular things without worrying about pissing off half of their voter base.
True when they're passing monstrous legislation. However, another feature of conservative politics is constant in-fighting and back-biting. They're frequently throwing each other under the bus, recording conversations and leaking them, etc. It's pretty entertaining when you can step back from the horror of it all.
ETA: It's almost as though they're assholes.
Very much an if
I would worry. If the Biden administration wanted you dead they would
Step 1: conduct polls on the matter
Step 2: send a begging letter to the GOP asking for permission
Step 3: open negotiations with the GOP and gives them whatever they want.
Step 4: spend ten months at Town hall meeting to convince the liberal base
Step 5: get approval from Congress
Step 6: fight the court battles
Step 7: lose in the Supreme Court when Roberts vomits all over it.
Step 8: repeat the process with a watered down version, maybe not kill me, maybe just give me a head injury and let god decide.
.....
You would be fine for at least 20 years and then get a letter saying "you are a bad person.". Not even a !
Nah, that's too spicy for Democrats. Their letter would accuse them of having no "shame", or "honor", as if any Republican gives a shit about those concepts.
This is what cracks me up:
The Democrats are both ominously powerful and painfully ineffective at the same time. Even of the January 6th rioters, only the criminally stupid died, and most got a slap on the wrist.
It explains their concern...
Haha the far right have been threatening to kill liberals for a few years now and are itching for an real civil war. Most of the threats I read about are made in their Telegram channels, but they all say how they're stocking up on guns and ammo and waiting for the go-ahead.
Fortunately the relevant authorities are well-aware of the threat.
Orwell on Hitler:
Like the cop who beats up his wife, then cries because she made him do it, and convinces himself he's really the victim of the whole debacle.
well, if they’re shifting the definition of “conservative” to what others call a “domestic terrorist who made death threats against the President and then had a shootout with the FBI rather than surrender,” then yeah, those people should watch out.
They are
The guy was going into detail about what it would like to see his victims dying. I haven't seen info on what exactly triggered the shooting.
One guy pointed out his age and "Why did they need all those cops?". I don't care if you are 75, you can still pull the trigger on a semi-auto gun.
He pointed a gun at the FBI agents serving a warrant. This was not an execution, it was an old white guy who's never had his privilege checked before.
These are po dunk cops shooting a dog. These are FBI agents, if they shot him, he pulled a gun on them. They put him under surveillance. They approached him in public and asked to talk to him. Guy went angry old fuck on them and told them to come back with a warrant, so they did. If he was shot and killed, he brought it on himself, by his actions, that warranted being shot and killed.
He was also taunting and threatening the FBI on his social media after he was told that they were monitoring it. Just because it's online doesn't make it not a threat. You're 100% right and I don't understand how anyone doesn't see this.
"Just try to take me coppers!"
Or any gun generally
Keep making direct terrorist threats and watch what happens.
Don't tolerate the intolerant. That's how you protect democracy.
Snake choked on its own tail today.
Fear mongering far right "journalists" terrifying fragile old, broken white men until they threaten the president's life constantly. Then the FBI knocks on their door in seemingly valid response and the fragile, frightened old man likely comes to the door with a loaded AR-15, a grenade belt and a blue lives matter t-shirt. His heroes in law enforcement, who are at the same time infallible super beings and complicit traitors tell him to drop the weapon, he refuses... And no more Walter.
The next day, the same fear mongering far right "journalists" tell the "story" of Walter, an innocent martyr, silenced by the JOE BRANDON!
Con artists and cowards.
Just more projection, since conservatives have been getting away with murder openly for decades.
Whatever, they've been claiming that for years. They said the Clintons would come kill them because of Waco.
They're still really sad when Obama took all their guns back in 2012. That's why Republicans are so insecure, because they don't have any guns! The government took them all. I think they sent them to Mexico, or something.
Right??
Don't forget Jade Helm when they knocked all the Conservatives' doors down and marched them into concentration camps that used to be Walmarts.
I am still traumatized from being in daycare when all those satanists came and we had orgies. Plus that time me and my brother listened to a heavy metal record backwards and we're told to worship Satan.
And murdered their grandparents with Obamacare.
What about Freedom of Speech and 2A?
Why can't I buy a ton of guns and ammo and send death threats while drawing detailed maps of each target and how I plan to commit those actions with a detailed agenda?
HOW IS THAT AGAINST THE LAW?!
Of course they are. Their entire political ideology is based on fear. They know their voters are cowards, and they need them to remain that way. If they can be property scared, they can be properly controlled.
Well I mean if they are going to make these claims, who are we to disappoint them???
Im just glad they are coming out of the woodwork before they harm any innocent people.
It will probably take 1 more black president for us to weed out the last of them, that last time drove them nuts.
I think you are missing the idea that there is an endless supply of these people. More people are born every day and more people find out about and join these groups as well. It's not like their membership is locked and once the lot of them get put in the ground or thrown in jail it's over. That's not how things work. Go reead the posts from the last few weeks. They're raising a whole new batch of even more radicalized young males. Shit won't stop because the reasons for them to join these groups hasn't gone away.
Lmao, yep!!
Wasn't the guy killed, outed by people on his own truth social site too? So they threw their own to the wolves and then want to pretend they are being targeted? Lmao.
If that's true, why the heck aren't more people making a big deal about that?? The Left should be taunting these clowns with that fact.
I could be wrong, but I first read it on reddit. When the story first broke, I heard that he went on Truth social to make his threats. Someone or someoneS on the site reported his threats because they were direct assassination threats on Biden... Then he was served with the notice of being under surveillance and then he just dug his heels in, making more threats. The FBI then got a warrant and tried to serve itz while being met with this looney and his guns... So he was 'taken care of'.
He got what he deserved.
We were still too merciful to this treasonous bastard, but yeah he was delt with, properly.
There's a bit too much danger in using a holistic, super-operative "they" in thinking like that.
There are absolutely conservatives out there that have somewhat more logical, level-headed thinking at work, but get freaked out by their "We need death penalty for all liberals, immediately" neighbors. Probably somewhere out there is a conservative neighbor of his that's privately glad the FBI went after him.
The tips to the FBI came from truth social
At least conservatives are acknowledging that they're terrorists
....but, but, but they are "true patriots" all at the same time!1!!
But threatening to murder people online is protected by mUh FiRsT aMeNdMeNt rights!
If that makes them shut up, wouldn't it be a win?
The problem is it won't, because they know it's a lie.
Dark Brandon, indeed.
Sing-a-long! "They're coming to take me away!"
Sounds pretty self fulfilling
Authorities killed a terrorist in America
That's the real headline and you'd think these supposed Patriots would be happy
Yes. So please shut up.
I wish lmao