Biden "running out" of patience with Bibi as Gaza war hits 100 days
President Biden and other senior U.S. officials are becoming increasingly frustrated with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his rejection of most of the administration's recent requests related to the war in Gaza, four U.S. officials with direct knowledge of the issue told Axios.
Why it matters: Since the Oct. 7 Hamas attack 100 days ago, Biden has given Israel his full backing, with unprecedented military and diplomatic support, even while taking a political hit from part of his base in an election year. That support has largely continued publicly, but behind the scenes, there are growing signs that Biden is losing his patience, the U.S. officials said.
- "The situation sucks and we are stuck. The president's patience is running out," one U.S. official told Axios.
- "At every juncture, Netanyahu has given Biden the finger," Sen. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.), who has been in close contact with U.S. officials about the war, told Axios. "They are pleading with the Netanyahu coalition, but getting slapped in the face over and over again."
Behind the scenes: Biden hasn't spoken to Netanyahu in the 20 days since a tense Dec. 23 call, which a frustrated Biden ended with the words: "This conversation is over." They had spoken almost every other day in the first two months of the war.
- Before Biden hung up, Netanyahu had rejected his request that Israel release the Palestinian tax revenues it's withholding.
- National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby tried to downplay the decrease in communication, telling reporters on Wednesday that "it doesn't say anything" about the state of the relationship.
- But more and more signs of irritation are emerging. "There is immense frustration," a U.S. official said.
Bibi doesn't give two craps about Biden. Bibi knows that the entire Gaza debacle is a mess for Biden. He probably bets on a GOP win later this year, which will come with a big wave of financial support for him anyway.
100%
Why would he? He's gonna get finnancial support no matter what party wins
My theory is that he prefers the GOP over the Dems anyway since they’re a lot more supportive in terms of finances but also political support, whereas the Dems are threading more lightly around his issue. I think that partly fucking Biden over by not doing his bidding is an added benefit to him. Not only does he get to do what he wants but he’s also creating domestic problems for Biden which in turn would mean that the GOP gets a better chance at unseating him and unlocking even more support for Israel
It's no secret that he's allied with the Republicans, no speculation required. I thought this was common knowledge.
Because Bibi is playing to the hardline Israeli conservatives, and they align far better with the GOP values.
Trump will find something to defund to give them more money.
Biden is going to lose an election over it. Let's try sanctions against Israel instead of, maybe, you know, giving them billions in military aid that's being used to kill toddlers.
Why are there so many Iranian talking points on Lemmee lately?
Just because it is a talking point doesn't make it false. I am sure if America gave Ukraine a nuke and they used it to nuke Moscow, that fact would be a Russian talking point.
I didn't know Israel was even handling Palestinian tax revenues. Gives a clear picture of just how much of a stranglehold that Israel has on Palestine, but I suppose it should've been obvious since I already knew they controlled food, water, and pretty much everything going in and out of Palestine.
Patience is not something he should have ever had with Netanyahu. An enemy to mankind should be our enemy, full stop. If Israel cannot stop and contain itself then the rest of the world needs to step in and handle it for them.
Our alliance is with Israel, not Netanyahu, and our policy in the region is one based on centuries, not months. Based on tens of millions of lives, not tens of thousands.
Thats a real concavebrain response right there.
No.
Oil.
They can keep it, we should have shifted away from nonrenewable a lot sooner.
100 days of genocide. He sleeps.
0.004% of all Palestinian have been killed. 1% of the Palestinians in Gaza. Daily death tolls have been falling.
What evidence is there of genocide?
It sounds like you are complaining the genocide isn't going fast enough.
No I'm saying these numbers are proof positive that s genocide is not taking place. The daily numbers are going down with 99.996% of the Palestinian population still alive. What kind of genocide is that?
Good thing genocides aren't declared over percentages, but hard numbers. Over 20,000 innocent Palestinians have been murdered by the IDF. Genocides start at 5000.
What? It's not a question of numbers but a question of intent. I'm saying the numbers as they stand are not evidence of such intent.
If the daily numbers of people dying was going up instead of down, such numbers would tend to prove genocidal intent.
Maybe it's 5,000 people if the total number of people is 25,000 or something. That would be 20%. That would tend to prove genocidal intent.
Other things I would consider strong evidence: air strikes on civilian targets without no credible military justification, precision, or proportionality, would tend to prove genocidal intent.
Forget it, Lemmy is hell bend that Israel is the new Nazi-Area Germany. I agree with you that there is no genocide. There are lot's of war crimes, but no genocide.
Fuck off to Truth Social then, propaganda bot. 20,000 dead innocent Palestinians, mostly women and children, referred to as sub-human animals by the Israelis, bUt No GeNoCiDe HeRe!
Yeah, never heard "sub-human animals" in regards to Palestinians from Israelis in the last 20 years. Only in regards to Hamas and I tend to agree with that notion.
These people got tricked and they cannot believe evidence before their eyes.
This is the equivalent to thinking someone is going to win a marathon if they are limping and have slowed to a walk after 400 feet.
There were 150 times more Iraqi civilians killed per capita in the US war in Iraq and I have never once heard a single person call it a genocide.
Israel has the ability to level Gaza and the West Bank and kill every Palestinian person within about twenty minutes and yet they have not done so.
Instead, were three months into this "genocide" and 99.996% of the Palestinian people are still there.
It seems to me that Israel is targeting the tunnel infrastructure im Gaza City and known Hamas militants, who use their families and public infrastructure including school, hospitals, and apartment building to conceal the 800 tunnel shafts the IDF have documented in Gaza City.
Also, some 90% of the airstrikes have been in a tiny area of Gaza City, at the tunnels from which Hamas launched the October 7 attach and to which they retreated. Israel issued emergency text and OTA broadcasts warning civilians to evacuate and not to go near the blockade. I'll agree the blockade and occupation were illegal, but Gaza no has has now functional ability to govern itself, let alone rebuild the infrastructure.
Thankfully the UN and Geneva Convention don't require us to wait for the oppressed population to be dead to declare a genocide. What Israel is doing meets the definition.
What are you going to do when South Africa's complaint gets thrown out kn the papers?
Shrug. The world pretty much expects that the court is there for enemies of the Western countries anyways. I'll be happy if they rule against Israel but not surprised if they don't.
What will you do when it doesn't?
Read the decision and factual allegations, the tribunal's statement of the law, and it's analysis, and figure out what information I lack right now that would have informed a more accurate assessment. That's what I do when I'm wrong about a case.
ok buddy. I'm just going to believe your made up numbers. But it's ok, keep sucking that Israeli cock.
If you don't know where these numbers came from you don't know enough about this to have opinions. Kindly stop posting about this.
they came from your mouth. you're the one that didn't post your source. you expect everyone to just take your word for it? yeah no. not trusting some rando online that supports what israel is doing. killing women and children indiscriminately is indefensible and if you try you're just as bit of a piece of shit as the zionists that are attempting to wipe a group of people from the face of the earth.
Again if you think I just made them up, were not aware of them yourself, and have no idea about how they are tabulated, then I don't believe that you've been following along closely enough to really have strong opinions about what's happening.
Indiscriminate killing? That's bogus. The IDF told civilians to leave. Hamas used human shields. You can criticize Israel for being overzealous with collateral deaths, but saying they are indiscriminate is just not true. Surprise surprise you don't know basic facts about the war and you got tricked by a lie.
They were told to leave, and then prevented from leaving through the only crossing at Rafah. Then the refugee camps at Rafah were bombed.
Egypt controls the southern border. Humanitarian corridors were respected with a handful of exceptions. 70 deaths are attributed to such attacks.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_Palestinians_evacuating_Gaza_City
I have not reviewed each one and compared it to what IDF says on its official website.
I'm not finding much info for an airstrike on Rafah. It's. Not on this page, which is well edited:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_engagements_during_the_2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war
So you're ok with a military killing innocents. I got it. You flat refuse to share your sources. Got it. "do your own research". Got it. You realize that any credible news outlet, be it a paper, tv show, web site etc will tell their sources. Because that's how you're credible. You're just a dude on the internet. How do I know you're not getting your number from a bogus 'source'? Just "trust me bro". The IDF told people to leave, then bombed the places they told people to go. Ok, Hamas used human shields. Just shoot through the shield. Great. You killed two birds with one stone. The IDF WANTS all those people dead, why would they be discriminate when choosing targets? Bomb them all. The IDF called Palestinians "vermin", sure sounds like someone who cares about human life to me. The IDF is doing exactly what the Israeli government has wanted to do for years and they used a false flag to justify doing it. 100 days dude. ONE HUNDRED DAYS of bombing for "retaliation" for something so small, and has plenty of evidence that was orchestrated BY the Israeli government. Hell HAMAS WAS CREATED BY ISRAEL in the first place. If the IDF is such a great military, why do they need to bomb civilian buildings, refugee centers, caravans? why not tactically go in, take out Hamas leadership and protect the innocent people? Ah, yes, that's because they are INDESCRIMINATE with their killing because they want ALL PALISTINIANS dead. Remember this. Remember how you defended baby killers. Remember how you defended woman killers. There will come a time when you decide to backtrack on your stance, but I want you to remember that you defended this attempted genocide. Hamas is evil, I will give you that. But the Palestinian people should not pay for that with their lives.
You have some homework to do, kid.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_engagements_during_the_2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war
LOL. that's some complete information to base your entire belief system on there. Write back when there is some information that isn't just "???"
Oh I see. Wikipedia is a good starting point when you're unfamiliar with a topic. That's just where I recommend you get started if you actually want to talk about any of these things
Well, you're the expert, I figured I'd just listen to you.
I agree with most of this.
But if they wanted all Palestinians dead, they could do it within a half a day at most.
I haven't looked into every allegation and it certainly seems like some war crimes have been committed by IDF soldiers. That's a very far stretch from a formal policy of genocide, which is incredible because the death tolls and air strikes are decreasing with 99.996% of Palestinian people unharmed.
I was reading about an airstrike on a refugee camp; IDF says there was a tunnel under a market from which a Hamas leader was holed up and that the airstrike killed him and some other top Hamas people; if that's not true, it's a war crime. In another, the IDF struck four mosques at a refugee camp and it says the strikes killed 150 Hamas fighters who holed up in the mosques along with a bunch of civilians that Hamas held there against their will. The ministry in Gaza says there were 400 people killed. Doctors Without Borders says there were 50 civilians killed.
Innocent women and children dying in a war zone does not make it a genocide. A few statements from extremist politicians outside the military chain of command or which do not match the facts on the ground does not make it a genocide.
Calling Palestinians vermin and then trying to kill every Palestinian would be a genocide. That's what genocide means: the intent to kill all of a people. I have yet to hear a coherent argument, just screeching and emotional nonsense.
I'm okay with the military targeting tunnels and Hamas members; those are just and moral targets. It's sad and unfortunate that Hamas hid the tunnel shafts (800 shafts found so far) in hospitals, schools, and apartment buildings, and that it seems like a lot of people didn't evacuate when they should have. And it's unfortunate that Hamas members force their families, those innocent women and children, to accompany them and prevent them from leaving. Why don't they insist that they flea while the soldiers stay to fight, if the want. Seems like Hamas wants their families and neighbors to be martyred for sympathy.
In the wake of October 7, Israel isn't waiting to get these targets alone.
In 2025, there will be more Palestinians on earth than there were in 2023.
That's the reality of this situation.
That doesn't mean a genocide isn't happening. A net decrease in population isn't the criteria to announce that genocide is occurring. Just the total number of dead.
So what's the number? I've never seen a genocide defined by a number but teach me something today. From a demographic perspective, this isn't 1% of Palestinians. Syria has well over a half million dead in their conflict, not seeing people lining up calling that a genocide. There were around a million dead as a result of the Iraq war, was that a genocide?
Genocide is about intent as much as numbers, there are millions of Arabs living in Israel with rights and privileges that clearly show the intent is not genocidal.
FactBased and jew pilled
It's crickets when politicians propose giving billions of American taxpayer money and weapons to Israel, year after year. It has never been a better time to stop fucking doing that for good.
Good. Maybe this can be the turning point away from the US's bootlicking support of Israel. Fuck Bibi and his genocidal goons.
More finger wagging, no action.
Bibi is just waiting and hoping for Trump.
It isn't too late for Biden to turn things around here. Refuse to send more aid unless Netanyahu can ensure it won't kill innocent people, and make him do a little dance too.
Like always, Bibi is putting politics above all else.
How does Iran factor into your equation?
Right? How is this not common knowledge? Putin is doing the same thing. Do people on Lemmy not follow the news?
Just give them another 50yrs. I'm sure they can resolve peace. But continue to ship missiles to Isreal
Sure sure, running out of patience. How many days since they sent them more missles and weapons? What like, 11 or 12 days now? And before that Biden used an executive order to send even more? That was after we sent them an initial round of tons of weapons? Yeah Ill tell ya they're bound to get a stern talking to any day now. I bet after they send them another 3 tons of ammunition the headlines will say something about how "the US is slamming Israel on their war in Gaza" Its so exhausting all this theater.
Alternative take: It would be negligent for any western country, especially America, to not use this opportunity to bolster Israel's defensive capabilities for the inevitable war with Iran, as America's policy is based on tens of millions of lives not tens of thousands.
But keep shipping missiles. Ok Biden.
How do you "run out of patience"? At some point, a line gets crossed. Bibi has either crossed the line, or he hasn't. Saying "oh boy you're trying my patience!" is about as toothless as my grandmother.
Like when you have enough with someone and tell them "Do as you like", instead the responsible thing to say is "you are not getting any of our weapons, Sherlock"
"Biden realizes his polling numbers are falling and decides to do damage control".
Israel is not going to be a winning issue in terms of poll numbers.
Every issue is a winning (or losing) issue in presidential elections. There's far too many factors to assume any one thing can't sway the tide.
Hillary made that mistake in 2016.
No, my point is that Biden will lose more voters than he gains on Israel if he changes course. Most of the US is still overwhelmingly pro-Israel despite the genocide on display.
I absolutely think he should drop Israel like a hot potato, but not for domestic strategic reasons. It'll damage his poll numbers, not help them.
I don't think so? Republicans won't vote for him either way, and among Democrats support for Palestine has already overtaken support for Israel AFAIK. Biden's current stance is losing him young voters like crazy.
Compare support for continued Israeli aid, not support for Palestine. Lots of people claim support for Palestine, yet support continued aid to Israel. If you have something to the contrary, unironically, I'd love to see it. It'd be a rare bright light in these dark times.
As a young voter, we generally don't turn out in the requisite numbers.
Oh I see.
It's not exactly what you're looking for, but there.
In late November.
In late December.
Yes, which is why Trump won in 2016. And change in that trend is how Biden won in 2020. Which is why if Biden can't secure those votes he'll lose in 2024. It could be a lose-lose situation, but from that perspective it seems like Biden is digging his own grave.
Like, don't get me wrong, I would love if public sentiment turns against the war in Israel, but right now, it's just... not.
I rather think this issue is a lose-lose situation in terms of losing voters. Which is one of the reasons I think it's even more important that Biden take steps away from support of Israel - if you're gonna lose voters either way, might as well make the decision that is both moral and strategically better for America.
And yet, we're blamed for HRC losing. So which is it?
I mean, for HRC's loss the margin was razor-thin, but realistically it was due to her ignoring several states in favor of running up the margins in Cali to make her eventual win look more 'legitimate'.
Huzzah electoral college. /s
That has nothing to do with what I asked.
I... don't really know what answer you're looking for. As I said, I'm not blaming young people for HRC's loss, but her own strategic choices.
I believe the electoral college is blamed for HRC losing. Sure, it wasn't the only factor, but it's a pretty big deal that you can win the popular vote and still lose the election.
Plenty of people blame progressives, leftists and young people as well. Then they turn around and act like they don't need us when they pick procorporate trash candidates in the primaries.
Can't have it both ways.
And if Trump gets elected because those youngsters don't vote... I guess they'll learn the hard way that elections have consequences. How insignificant the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will seem if Trump becomes the first dictator in US history.
Make better choices in the primary Boomer. Stop electing procorporate trash candidates.
Okay yeah but if we sit these Democrats down and explain to them the threat of an Israel Iran war, they will see how assinine of an idea pulling support for Israel would be.
There may be many factors but to just throw your hands up and say every issue is equally important is just plain foolish.
Oh, no. A politician doing what the people want in order to save his job.
That's how it's supposed to work. It's better than the usual m.o. where the politician does whatever they want and screw the people. Yes, it would be nice if they did what you want from the get-go, but I will vote for the one that changes their stance due to popular pressure over one that "sticks to their guns" no matter who it's hurting.
(I'm speaking in generalities here. Obviously Biden hasn't changed his stance yet.)
Except he's not doing what the people want. He's doing what Israel wants and then making a big show out of being frustrated they aren't doing what he wants. For all we know, he's told them to not worry about what he's saying, he's just trying to win back support to avoid losing the election.
He could cut off the aid or add conditions to it at any time. Or even just not veto UN resolutions.
I agree. Please read my last sentence.
The statement, however, indicated that they were more annoyed that a politician would change their stance because of poling numbers rather than because it's the right thing to do. My point is that our political system is designed for just that. Politicians have always done what is best for themselves, and expecting different from any politician is naive. Our system is deliberately designed to allow people to put pressure on politicians to (try to) keep them from sacrificing the people they are supposed to govern for their own gain.
I was talking more to the general sentiment of the statement, not to these specific circumstances. Don't blame a politician for bowing to political pressure from the people. That's what they're supposed to do to keep your vote. Allow them to change their policy, even if they don't change their stance. Instead, blame the ones that double-down on harmful decisions because they don't want to appear "weak."
This is all theoretical, of course. Recent elections have shown that too many people are willing to be sacrificed to allow those in charge to appear "strong."
That's not what's happening at all. If anything it's the opposite and the Biden people are being much harder on Netanyahu behind closed doors than in public. All of the reputable reporting and analysis indicates this.
If the military aid valve is still fully open, I'm going to take any suggestion that he's trying his hardest behind closed doors with a grain of salt. He's got three levers that should have big impacts: access to purchase weapons, the money being used to buy those weapons, and the military support to discourage the other regional powers from stepping in.
It all makes me wonder what levers Israel is pulling on the leaders of the West.
Or he is disgusted with how Netanyahu is waging genocide. The U.S. can’t just say “alright Israel, you’re on your own” because it would possibly lead to a nuclear conflict between Israel and Iran. Shit would get out of hand real fast when the militants try to storm Israel thinking it’s go time. I hate Netanyahu as much as I hate Khamenei and Hamas
As if Iran can't possibly be responsible for it's own actions.
If Iran wants to invade that's a problem with Iran, not the US.
Iran wouldn’t invade. They’d use their proxies abroad to stage an assault, and Israel may escalate without the U.S. holding it back by striking Iran directly
Iran wants to invade. They think (incorrectly) that they will win. Israel will turn Tehran into a parking lot before that happens.
Oh they want to invade, but they’re also aware how quickly they would get leveled. They’re hoping their pawns can do enough damage for them, and to hell with who gets hurt along the way, whether it be Palestinians, the Lebanese, or Yemenis. It’s why to me, it takes a monster to openly cheer for one side or the other. Israel is wrong for what it’s doing to the Palestinians, but to praise Hamas/Iran is just unconscionable. It’s one of the times when it’s totally fair to blame both sides for the mess that’s going on lol
Ive given up on humanity.
I favor nuking everyone.
Me, too, Joey. Me fucking too.
It has long been time to abandon the 🥕 and start using the stick.
Maybe old Joe will finally get the picture that you cannot work with a hostile authoritarian who is trying to preserve their political ambitions through warmongering. Better late than never I guess, but holy fuck how much more obvious can it get.
TBH Joe is one of those ancient democrats that was around since segregation and was on the wrong side of the issue. I really truly wanted to believe that he had changed, that him serving as VP under Barack Obama had meant something, but clearly he's still the same son of a bitch he was in his youth. I hope we get some real options in 2028 or I might be learning German and moving out of the US Shithole Country.
,
It’s funny. We’re running out of patience with Biden.
Americans shouldn't run out of patience with Biden. When the election comes, they might reelect Trump and that would be a catastrophe.
Maybe that's what Netanyahu wants?
People shouldn't have voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries. That was a stupid shitty thing to do.
And your point is? We can't change the past, all we can do is try to make a better future. It sounds like you just want to give up because you didn't get your way in 2020. That's pretty childish.
Centerists like you will never say it's the right time to have this conversation. You keep electing procorporate trash and then acting like everybody you fuck over in the process owes your garbage candidate their vote. It's not fooling anybody. You know exactly what you did in the primaries. You made this bed now lie in it. If you need our votes in the future make better choices in the primaries. Simple as that.
Its fully within his power to pull 100% of the money Israel receives from the US and cut off all access to weapons. He has chosen not to.
It sure it. But then, the most powerful kingmaker in the US is AIPAC, if they withdraw their support of Biden, he will struggle in the presidential race.
Then the risk of a xenophobic wannabe dictator getting elected is put on the otherside of the scale.
So if you look at this from a purely US point of view. The tradeoff is brown people half a world away die, vs the US becoming trumplandia with all the vengeance he has promised to bestow on his political rivals.
So if it was your choice, what would you chose?
Edit to clarify: yes it's bizarre US allows PACs, corporations should not be treated as people, the situation is FUBAR.
Biden’s approval rating is 33%. AIPAC is of no consequence here - no incumbent in the history of US Federal elections has ever won with such abysmal polls in an election year. Not once, ever. Biden isn’t going to magically make history here, and his ego telling him he has to do 2 terms instead of allowing for a primary election so democracy can play out is the reason why.
Then he has the audacity to claim democracy is on the line this year. It’s already gone, America is just in denial about it.
.
I vote for no one needlessly dying anywhere.
If Trump wins a lot of people will die, just like last time.
More people have died, lost their homes, lost their cars, lost wages, a lot more loss in general under Biden. If you dont want trump then you better start pushing for party to primary Biden
He isn't getting impatient with Bibi, he is getting scared he will lose the election before they can instigate Iran enough to feed the machine.
Maybe it’s time for Israel to taste an American missile.
Even better would be for them to stop tasting american money.
Biden went from
"We have to end it before election season"
to
"y'all are fine with Genocide right?"
3rd party 2024 and end the 2 party illusion of choice
Somebody doesn't understand basic game theory. A 3rd party will guarantee the worst outcome. The system does need to be reformed, but you can't do it that way.
The one party system will never allow ranked-choice voting. Burn it down.
Id rather see ranked choice first
As far as I'm concerned, ranked choice or something similar is a prerequisite for ending the two party stranglehold.
Neither party will ever allow that to happen so... game over.