Didn't we try the whole Dems helping Republicans thing before? And didn't that get us into this whole-ass mess to begin with, Hillary?
I'm sure Biden won't ignore WI, MI, PA this time around like Hillary did.
In fairness I blame Stein for that shit. Her voters would have flipped every single one of those states had Putin not been encouraging her to spoil in favor of the wannabe authoritarian.
I blame Hillary. Stein ran her campaign, and Hillary didn't do enough to get enough votes.
I hated her and sat out the vote because I didn't think it was possible for the other to win. Dems are to blame for running someone so unlikeable. They're doing it again, only to a lesser degree.
I voted for her, and I voted for Biden and will vote for him again, but 2016 was like a slow motion train wreck as viewed from the dining car. This Biden campaign feels the same.
Not to replay previous elections but seriously, if Hillary had visited just a few of the states she completely wrote off maybe she'd have gotten a couple vote there. I'm pretty left of center so I'll vote my interests anyway but not even being worth a visit is a bit of a slap in the face to a whole lot of people who at least want to feel heard.
I won’t say you’re wrong but how ridiculous is it that people need someone to come to their state to gain their vote?
Get the fuck over yourself.
Actually, I just decided if Joe doesn’t knock on my door himself he can forget about it.
It makes sense to me that people feel that way. "Hillary didn't even come to Michigan, why would she care about us?"
No one is expecting Biden to knock on their door, but making the effort to show that their state counts does get people more likely to vote for him.
It makes sense to not vote to someone for lack of a gesture? I don’t think so.
And it is just a gesture because hearing the candidate speak in person doesn’t tell me anything more about them than what I can learn online.
Lack of a gesture? No. Lack of caring? Yes.
I'm not sure how you got me coming up with the hypothetical statement of “Hillary didn’t even come to Michigan, why would she care about us?” and think that it was about gestures when I literally said it was about a perception of lack of caring about them.
Flint was going through a water crisis (and still is). Hillary never went to Michigan. That would get some people in Flint to think she doesn't care about them. Why wouldn't it?
Yes, to them, I can see how some might think that.
I also think those people are ridiculous. I wouldn’t have even known if Clinton came to my state if it weren’t for threads like this.
Having lived in a state that she didn't visit, I've heard it mentioned more than once.
Is it logical and rational? Not necessarily, but people do want to feel heard and writing off huge swaths of the country because you didn't need those states to win, simply targeting specific, winnable states to get the required electors). Is incredibly poor form and turns out was probably a mistake.
It exposed them for what they were and still are, out-of-touch, rich, milquetoast know-nothings looking down their noses at huge chunks of the population at best. At worst thinking because they're born of a certain class they're entitled to rule.
That you don't know what Presidential candidates visit your state during an election is on you, pay more attention.
That you don’t know what Presidential candidates visit your state during an election is on you, pay more attention.
What difference would it make to me? What more would I learn?
Just as an example, imagine me, going my whole adult life thinking women deserve the right to determine what happens with their own bodies. What could, say, Trump possibly say in person to make me change my position on that? Would it be some amazing argument that I had never heard on TV or over the internet? How could that possibly move me on positions I hold, and therefore change my vote?
Do you see how fucking crazy that sounds?
Nah, if Nader wasn't here we wouldn't have had Iraq, and if Stein wasn't we wouldn't have had Dobbs.
The green party are fascist collaborators and deserve no deflection from their responsibility in holding america back in the name of their white left bullshit allowing the right to drag this country further and further off track in the name of "teaching those establishment dems a lesson."
We could have had better education standards, made headway on climate change, and avoided the 6-3 court taking away women's reproductive rights, but nah, lets blame the dems who'd have stopped that shit for the Green Party being knowing spoilers upto and including taking RNC money to keep doing it.
When we achieve the multipartisan pluralistic democracy this country needs the current greens will be wiped out and replaced, because they're not a real party with real political goals, they're a russian and RNC backed professional spoiler club who exist only to let the white left pretend the continued degradation of this country is the fault of the people out to halt or reverse it because,
"well you didn't make me want to vote for you as hard as this obvious straw-candidate who's literally taking money from the folks out to destroy everything I claim to value more than rubbing it in your face that it's your fault I'm doing nothing to help."
You folks still trying to blame hillary for Stein stabbing everyone in the back are the epitome of the "look what you made me do!" domestic abuser.
Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim and Offender,
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
We're going to see queer folks be hunted for sport by the end of next year because people like you can't just admit that shit is better when the Republicans are not let into at least one branch of government than when they aren't.
We literally have observable proof that the biggest improvements to life in this country come when the dems are given the margin to just do shit without having to spending months prying it from the right, but nah, let's teach them another lesson by letting the Rs back into power so they can reverse Obergefell with a 9-0 majority this time instead!
That will teach those old white folks that won't be personally impacted at all and not just prove that the white left is not and has never been any sort of ally to the queer community!
Nader and Stein are less of a factor than you think.
In 2000, the butterfly ballot and Pat Buchanen caused more problems in Florida than Nader did, but the killer part was NONE of the Florida nonsense would have mattered if Gore had just managed to win his own home state of Tennessee. That would have put him over the top and Florida would have been a non issue.
Same thing with Stein in 2016. Clinton was her own worst enemy talking about putting coal mines out of business which cost her Pennsylvania and then failing to campaign entirely in Michigan and Wisconsin.
Least unhinged liberal
Your assumption that if there were no 3rd party candidates we would have voted for your neoliberal POS is incorrect. The 15% of Dems that switched to Republican in 2000 had more impact on Bush winning than the 3% that voted for Nader. Gore couldn't even win his home state, had he done that he could have lost Florida and still won the election.
Clinton did absolutely nothing to earn votes in 2016 and didn't even try, her entitled hubris demanded any vote not going to the GOP was hers.
Yes, Clinton supporters blame everyone but Clinton for the loss she earned.
Well, Debbie Schultz has some blame too, Hillary shouldn't have even have won the primary.
Haley isn't going to win but voting for her in the primaries will help fracture the republican party further.
If she wins the primaries, there's no way Trump won't run as an independent.
And that will split GOP votes.
Not unless she buys him off with promises of pardons and funding for his lawsuits. They could very well strike a deal where she names him as her VP and promises him oversight of the Department of Justice.
Do you think she likes him enough to do that?
You don’t have to like someone to strike a deal to gain the presidency.
Fair, but I don't think it would be wise to place trump in a position where your death would make him president.
Excellent point, perhaps put him on charge of the justice department then…
As though that would be a discernible change from right now.
Or it won't. It will look like they are more popular and bolster the outlook for the party.
You're crazy if you don't think this splits the vote.
Republicans fall in line.
Not with trump they don't.
Yeah but Haley doesn't validate rural white voters wanting to say the N word without social consequences the way Trump does.
Trump promises to make the grandkids start coming home for christmas again, Haley promises to return to the Republicans paying the nominal lipservice to that mentality being a bad thing that was driving trump's supporters nuts with the party before the brass bullshitter came along.
The net effect will more likely be trump still winning and then either Haley's supporters feeling alienated from how much Trump goes feral against her in the process, or Trump is blocked from running and he still loses via a write in third party run from the cult of trump
She didn't list slavery as a reason for the Civil War. She'd absolutely validate the racists if she got the nomination.
Why the fuck are liberals still doing this shit? Was getting trump elected not enough of a sign that it's stupid and doesn't work??
It's like they forgot Hillary Clinton literally propped up Trump because she thought he'd never win.
Because even if Haley won “by accident” that’s still infinitely better than Trump.
Not really. She is still likely to enact project 2025 upon taking office. To paraphrase one conservative, she is really good at looking like a normal politician. She's a confederate zombie back from the dead.
And you think, what, it can’t get worse than that? Fuck, man. Listen to what Orange Jesus is saying.
I think Nikki Haley is going to do the things Trump is saying, she just isn't saying them. If any Republican presidential candidate takes office next year, it is likely we will end up in a christofascist dictatorship.
Polling this early on isn't that meaningful. I think what it does illustrate is that Biden isn't obviously dominating in a Biden-Haley match up. If anything it looks Haley beats Biden by a larger margin than Trump does.
Rather than trying to support Haley because she is perceived to be less of a fascist, she's not, or because Biden will do better against her in a general election, as far as we know, he won't, we should focus on pressuring Biden to enact policy changes that his voting base are demanding.
For example, a lot of younger voters are frustrated by Biden's handling of the current Palestinian-Israeli conflict. We should direct our time and energy on getting Biden to change his outdated views on Israel.
Braindead strategy. How about galvanizing voters with popular leadership decisions which have a positive effect on people’s lives?! Did you think to try that you dumb fucks?
How to lose an election and radicalize voters: a memoir of America by the DNC
Chapter 1: How to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - the 2016 Elections
The Democratic National Committee is controlled opposition. Obama was a fantastic president by Republican standards, Hillary, while more qualified than any candidate has ever been, has the charisma of a dumpster cheeseburger (iT wUz HEr TurN), Joe is a Nixon-era neocon goofus.
They don't want to win, but if they happen to accidently win, they make sure it's someone safe and slightly right-of-center.
The last Democrat to take office was Jimmy Carter. After Reagan successfully convinced the electorate that the concept of governing is prima facie a bad idea, Dems seized the opportunity to engage in a hard-right shift and position themselves as "fiscally common-sense but socially liberal" and weaponize intersectionality into identity politics so that we'd all think it was a great victory if our tax money was being redistributed to big banks by a black man, illegal drone assassinations were being ordered by a woman and labor laws were being undermined by a gay man.
facts on facts on facts
popular leadership decisions which have a positive effect on people’s lives
That will cost them donor money. A long time ago Dems realized that it's a lot easier to turn money into votes than it is to turn votes into money.
Isn't this how we got trump in the first place?
Yes. Hilary thought he was easy work. Blew up in her face.
Blew up in all our faces
it blew up in my ass
Yep.
Stop playing fucking metagames and learn how to govern.
I think she'd win in a head to head against Biden. Unless trump, which he would, sabotages her at every chance they get.
I can pretty much guarantee that bidens folks want to run against the guy who keeps losing vs a young competent woman.
Don't confuse my thoughts with support. I don't like her, I'm just realistic.
Not sure Trump supporters would vote for a woman
young competent woman.
competent ? hmmmmm
more than trump perhaps.
Eh say what you will but she is competent
She's not terrible but even the GOP could do better. Also, were I Haley, I'd just point out that if she's as bad as Trump insinuates - why the fuck did he hire her lol? TO THE UN? like holy shit donny, you're shitting on yourself you moron. but he can't help it, he's bonkers.
No matter how much Democratic support she gets, she'll never get the nomination. Unless Trump dies before the convention. Any support she would get would literally only be to mess with Trump's head and destabilize his base.
After living through the last few elections, I'm not going to bet on whether Biden vs Haley or Biden vs Trump will lead to a better result. But I really don't see how helping Haley would actually accomplish anything. Even if the Democrats made a big (wasted) effort to push & campaign for Haley, it's not going to be nearly enough to make her the nominee.
Absent the Supreme Court declaring Trump ineligible (don't hold your breath) It's going to be Biden vs Trump. Prepare for that. Messing with the Republican's sham primary is a waste of effort and a distraction from more constructive things Democrats could be doing like getting their voters registered and ready to go to the polls in November.
They don’t want her to win though, they want her to convince some republicans to hate Trump enough to vote for Joe or not vote at all. Come to think of it, it is a pretty similar strategy to the one the Republicans have been running for years—use the underdog to neuter the bruiser before they even get to the big match.
I can think of three people I know personally who went from Bernie to Trump in 2016. It's not a bad strategy.
I’m sorry if this is offensive, but those three people sound like utter dolts. Talk about not knowing what you want…
what no they're dumb as hell. their justification was "I don't want another politician".
thing is, they're also frustrated and afraid and in that they're absolutely correct. no matter what you believe the causes and solutions are, people are noticing that they're working harder, paying more and in a much more precarious position for it than the generations before them. part of the reason that fascism is doing so well is that the people getting fucked know they need a change, and fascism is the change that the ruling class won't oppose so they actually feel like they can get it. they're not gonna love it when society runs out of queers and foreigners to destroy and they end up being the enemy of the week instead, but for right now all they can see is the walls of the current system closing in on them. in that situation, one where inaction is going to mean immediate destruction, a course shift into trumpism is a way of staying alive today and hoping you can figure out a way to unfuck things later.
I don't really see that happening tho. She barely criticizes Trump as it is. Once she loses, she'll go back to publicly fellating Trump and saying what a great man he is. I'd love to see her go full Liz Cheney, but she's far too self-serving for that.
Right wingers support right wingers. Who knew?
Who knew?
This is not "messing with Trump". Anyone in any party should participate in primaries. They decide who everyone else will get to vote for, and in some regards they are more important than the general election. For example, if someone is in a gerrymandered district, primaries are the only elections that matter for district level races.
If one party literally has only a single candidate, and thus there is no choice, don't vote in that primary. It's pointless. Vote in the other primary, for whatever candidate you like best, even if you don't like the candidate. Then there's some hope that when the general election comes, you'll at least be OK with both candidates. In the general election, vote for the one you like best, and if the candidate you like loses that election, you made a difference in the primary. Republican, Democrat, any party or no party, it's the way to give your vote the most influence.
many states restrict primary participation to past voting record.
Connecticut for example: Section 9-431 of the General Statutes of Connecticut stipulates that only registered members of a political party are entitled to vote in that party's primary, though a party may choose to permit unaffiliated voters to participate in its primary.[10]
In those places one would need to register for the appropriate party an appropriate amount ahead of time. What the field will look like overall is taking shape well ahead of time, and in some places ballots will have already been set before party registration deadlines arrive.
We need to help Donald Trump as a way to sow chaos in the Republican Party and guarantee ourselves a resounding victory in 2016.
---Hillary Clinton
Jesus fucking christ dems have you considered running a candidate that people want to vote for because he'll make their lives better, or did Bill Clinton convince you that you can just run as Gay Reagan every election and then either you win or your stock portfolio does?
If Trump is disqualified or drops out or drops dead - Nicky Haley would actually win against Biden right? And she's a fucking nutjob too. I mean they all are.
If the election was held today and Trump was the republican nominee, Biden would lose. If the election was held today and Haley was the republican nominee, Biden would lose.
It's so bizarre to me how out of touch people are with the actual state of the electorate. Joe Biden has consistently had one of the the lowest approval ratings of any president in modern history.
For comparison, at this point in his presidency Trump, who also had historically low approval ratings, had approval ratings 5% higher than Biden does now.
Let me say that again. Donald "Bigly" Trump, very stable genius esq., was and continues to be a more popular president than Joe Biden.
The problem is Biden, and we're all just sleepwalking into a furnace.
Lolbruh why tf do you think I’m registered independent?
That would be the most Dem thing Dems have ever done. Play games and get Haley elected when Biden would have just cruised over trump.
I don't suspect Biden will just cruise over Trump. Look at the polls, Trump leads in swing states. I hope Biden can win, but it won't be easy.
Don't mention polling. Centrists hate it because it indicates that their constant shift rightward has become unpopular.
Actual results since roe was overturned have been ~+9 towards dem/dem supported policies than polling has said. I still have hope.
..Where?
If he's lost the Muslim vote, hopefully he has, he's gonna lose by enormous numbers. The numbers from 2020 support this.
Georgia won by 11k votes - has 120k Muslims
Arizona won by 10k votes has 109k Muslims
Wisconsin won by 20k votes - has 68k Muslims
Pennsylvania won by 80k votes has 150k Muslims
Michigan won by 150k votes - has 241k Muslims
Haley isn’t getting elected. She has virtually no path towards the GOP nomination. If she did, MAGATs aren’t going to vote for her unless he was on the ballot, and then if she did put him on the ballot, she’ll lose the moderate votes.
Trump has a chance to cause chaos by losing another general election. He could also do even more damage by winning another general election. Haley, if she somehow won the primary and general, would be so much less destructive.
So yeah, voting for Haley in the primary is the fucking move and it’s why I didn’t vote for Biden in the SC primary.
I don’t care if she sucks. She won’t beat Trump in the end. The longer she stays in the race, the more angry he’s gonna get at his own party
People said the exact same shit about trump in 2016 and tried to do the same meta gaming shit you're trying to do, and look how that turned out. Ffs just admit you don't know what the fuck you're doing and vote like a normal person instead of big braining us into fascism again
Lmfao. Haley won’t be a fascist. The fascist will be a fascist. You don’t have to pretend like you know what you’re talking about
Liberals, the only people who will vote and run ads for the far right and then blame everyone else when democrats lose the election 🙃
Look, no Democrat is saying she'd be great or even close to being better than Biden.
But she'd certainly be better than Trump. And if she can split the Republican votes in the general election, even better.
SHE HAS THE SAME FASCIST POLICY POSITIONS AS TRUMP. THEY'RE EFFECTIVELY THE SAME CANDIDATE
When Haley tries to overthrow the government, I'll say she's as bad as Trump. Until that happens, I say Trump is worse.
No, she wouldn't be. Trump at least has value from an accelerationist POV, Haley's going to do all things Trump would but as less of a publicly shitposting moron.
I think Biden is the accelerationist candidate. Why? Bc if Trump wins, the system will just roll over and enforce his whims. The Dems will just accept it, and there likely will never be any more democracy. It will be much harder to force change. However, if Biden wins, the right will not accept it. Either the republicans will attempt to disrupt the election results, or the right will escalate domestic terrorism, etc.
She wins the primary if SCOTUS rules that Trump is an insurrectionist, and she polls well against Biden precisely because she appeals to "enlightened centrists."
The question is not whether Trump should be barred as insurrectionist. The question is what candidate the leash holders of certain Justices want.
I have a very hard time seeing Trump supporters coming around to vote for her when he’s painted her as a part of the deep state
Jesus Christ when are you gonna learn that these stupid 4d chess moves don't fucking work? You're gonna be literally supporting republicans, and when that gets a republican in office again you're probably gonna blame 3rd party voters and leftists and young people and Russia and literally everyone other than yourself for republicans winning. This shit backfires all the time, don't fuck us all over with this "big brain" bullshit again please
seriously. i have a policy that i only vote for someone if i want them to have the office (i know, i'm a fucking lunatic).
She's gotta be a Democratic plant. She literally talked shit abt the GOP in the first debate.
There's a lot of shit to talk about the gop, that doesn't exactly mean a whole lot
You mean Nimarata Randhawa Haley?
I don't get it
If you don't get it, you weren't paying attention. I don't go high, I go low. Nobody ever won a war by playing by the rules.
BARAK HUSSEIN OBAMA
That's her real name, "Nikki" isn't actually her first name.
What of it? Do you comment "Joseph Robinette Biden" every time you see him called Joe Biden?
You said you didn't get it, I explained.
Nikki is not short for Nimarata, Nikki is actually her middle name (which is not her first name, like I said). I assume she goes by her middle name so people don't know she's of Indian descent.
Joe is short for Joseph.
Doesn't bother you, doesn't bother me. I'm sure the GOP feels the same way.
Didn't we try the whole Dems helping Republicans thing before? And didn't that get us into this whole-ass mess to begin with, Hillary?
I'm sure Biden won't ignore WI, MI, PA this time around like Hillary did.
In fairness I blame Stein for that shit. Her voters would have flipped every single one of those states had Putin not been encouraging her to spoil in favor of the wannabe authoritarian.
I blame Hillary. Stein ran her campaign, and Hillary didn't do enough to get enough votes.
I hated her and sat out the vote because I didn't think it was possible for the other to win. Dems are to blame for running someone so unlikeable. They're doing it again, only to a lesser degree.
I voted for her, and I voted for Biden and will vote for him again, but 2016 was like a slow motion train wreck as viewed from the dining car. This Biden campaign feels the same.
Not to replay previous elections but seriously, if Hillary had visited just a few of the states she completely wrote off maybe she'd have gotten a couple vote there. I'm pretty left of center so I'll vote my interests anyway but not even being worth a visit is a bit of a slap in the face to a whole lot of people who at least want to feel heard.
I won’t say you’re wrong but how ridiculous is it that people need someone to come to their state to gain their vote?
Get the fuck over yourself.
Actually, I just decided if Joe doesn’t knock on my door himself he can forget about it.
It makes sense to me that people feel that way. "Hillary didn't even come to Michigan, why would she care about us?"
No one is expecting Biden to knock on their door, but making the effort to show that their state counts does get people more likely to vote for him.
It makes sense to not vote to someone for lack of a gesture? I don’t think so.
And it is just a gesture because hearing the candidate speak in person doesn’t tell me anything more about them than what I can learn online.
Lack of a gesture? No. Lack of caring? Yes.
I'm not sure how you got me coming up with the hypothetical statement of “Hillary didn’t even come to Michigan, why would she care about us?” and think that it was about gestures when I literally said it was about a perception of lack of caring about them.
Flint was going through a water crisis (and still is). Hillary never went to Michigan. That would get some people in Flint to think she doesn't care about them. Why wouldn't it?
Yes, to them, I can see how some might think that.
I also think those people are ridiculous. I wouldn’t have even known if Clinton came to my state if it weren’t for threads like this.
Having lived in a state that she didn't visit, I've heard it mentioned more than once.
Is it logical and rational? Not necessarily, but people do want to feel heard and writing off huge swaths of the country because you didn't need those states to win, simply targeting specific, winnable states to get the required electors). Is incredibly poor form and turns out was probably a mistake.
It exposed them for what they were and still are, out-of-touch, rich, milquetoast know-nothings looking down their noses at huge chunks of the population at best. At worst thinking because they're born of a certain class they're entitled to rule.
That you don't know what Presidential candidates visit your state during an election is on you, pay more attention.
What difference would it make to me? What more would I learn?
Just as an example, imagine me, going my whole adult life thinking women deserve the right to determine what happens with their own bodies. What could, say, Trump possibly say in person to make me change my position on that? Would it be some amazing argument that I had never heard on TV or over the internet? How could that possibly move me on positions I hold, and therefore change my vote?
Do you see how fucking crazy that sounds?
Nah, if Nader wasn't here we wouldn't have had Iraq, and if Stein wasn't we wouldn't have had Dobbs.
The green party are fascist collaborators and deserve no deflection from their responsibility in holding america back in the name of their white left bullshit allowing the right to drag this country further and further off track in the name of "teaching those establishment dems a lesson."
We could have had better education standards, made headway on climate change, and avoided the 6-3 court taking away women's reproductive rights, but nah, lets blame the dems who'd have stopped that shit for the Green Party being knowing spoilers upto and including taking RNC money to keep doing it.
When we achieve the multipartisan pluralistic democracy this country needs the current greens will be wiped out and replaced, because they're not a real party with real political goals, they're a russian and RNC backed professional spoiler club who exist only to let the white left pretend the continued degradation of this country is the fault of the people out to halt or reverse it because,
"well you didn't make me want to vote for you as hard as this obvious straw-candidate who's literally taking money from the folks out to destroy everything I claim to value more than rubbing it in your face that it's your fault I'm doing nothing to help."
You folks still trying to blame hillary for Stein stabbing everyone in the back are the epitome of the "look what you made me do!" domestic abuser.
Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim and Offender,
That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
We're going to see queer folks be hunted for sport by the end of next year because people like you can't just admit that shit is better when the Republicans are not let into at least one branch of government than when they aren't.
We literally have observable proof that the biggest improvements to life in this country come when the dems are given the margin to just do shit without having to spending months prying it from the right, but nah, let's teach them another lesson by letting the Rs back into power so they can reverse Obergefell with a 9-0 majority this time instead!
That will teach those old white folks that won't be personally impacted at all and not just prove that the white left is not and has never been any sort of ally to the queer community!
Nader and Stein are less of a factor than you think.
In 2000, the butterfly ballot and Pat Buchanen caused more problems in Florida than Nader did, but the killer part was NONE of the Florida nonsense would have mattered if Gore had just managed to win his own home state of Tennessee. That would have put him over the top and Florida would have been a non issue.
Same thing with Stein in 2016. Clinton was her own worst enemy talking about putting coal mines out of business which cost her Pennsylvania and then failing to campaign entirely in Michigan and Wisconsin.
Least unhinged liberal
Your assumption that if there were no 3rd party candidates we would have voted for your neoliberal POS is incorrect. The 15% of Dems that switched to Republican in 2000 had more impact on Bush winning than the 3% that voted for Nader. Gore couldn't even win his home state, had he done that he could have lost Florida and still won the election.
Clinton did absolutely nothing to earn votes in 2016 and didn't even try, her entitled hubris demanded any vote not going to the GOP was hers.
Yes, Clinton supporters blame everyone but Clinton for the loss she earned.
Well, Debbie Schultz has some blame too, Hillary shouldn't have even have won the primary.
No. Can they count?
Haley isn't going to win but voting for her in the primaries will help fracture the republican party further.
If she wins the primaries, there's no way Trump won't run as an independent.
And that will split GOP votes.
Not unless she buys him off with promises of pardons and funding for his lawsuits. They could very well strike a deal where she names him as her VP and promises him oversight of the Department of Justice.
Do you think she likes him enough to do that?
You don’t have to like someone to strike a deal to gain the presidency.
Fair, but I don't think it would be wise to place trump in a position where your death would make him president.
Excellent point, perhaps put him on charge of the justice department then…
As though that would be a discernible change from right now.
Or it won't. It will look like they are more popular and bolster the outlook for the party.
You're crazy if you don't think this splits the vote.
Republicans fall in line.
Not with trump they don't.
Yeah but Haley doesn't validate rural white voters wanting to say the N word without social consequences the way Trump does.
Trump promises to make the grandkids start coming home for christmas again, Haley promises to return to the Republicans paying the nominal lipservice to that mentality being a bad thing that was driving trump's supporters nuts with the party before the brass bullshitter came along.
The net effect will more likely be trump still winning and then either Haley's supporters feeling alienated from how much Trump goes feral against her in the process, or Trump is blocked from running and he still loses via a write in third party run from the cult of trump
She didn't list slavery as a reason for the Civil War. She'd absolutely validate the racists if she got the nomination.
Why the fuck are liberals still doing this shit? Was getting trump elected not enough of a sign that it's stupid and doesn't work??
It's like they forgot Hillary Clinton literally propped up Trump because she thought he'd never win.
Because even if Haley won “by accident” that’s still infinitely better than Trump.
Not really. She is still likely to enact project 2025 upon taking office. To paraphrase one conservative, she is really good at looking like a normal politician. She's a confederate zombie back from the dead.
https://www.project2025.org/
And you think, what, it can’t get worse than that? Fuck, man. Listen to what Orange Jesus is saying.
I think Nikki Haley is going to do the things Trump is saying, she just isn't saying them. If any Republican presidential candidate takes office next year, it is likely we will end up in a christofascist dictatorship.
Here is some current polling:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/
Polling this early on isn't that meaningful. I think what it does illustrate is that Biden isn't obviously dominating in a Biden-Haley match up. If anything it looks Haley beats Biden by a larger margin than Trump does.
Rather than trying to support Haley because she is perceived to be less of a fascist, she's not, or because Biden will do better against her in a general election, as far as we know, he won't, we should focus on pressuring Biden to enact policy changes that his voting base are demanding.
For example, a lot of younger voters are frustrated by Biden's handling of the current Palestinian-Israeli conflict. We should direct our time and energy on getting Biden to change his outdated views on Israel.
Braindead strategy. How about galvanizing voters with popular leadership decisions which have a positive effect on people’s lives?! Did you think to try that you dumb fucks?
How to lose an election and radicalize voters: a memoir of America by the DNC
Chapter 1: How to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - the 2016 Elections
The Democratic National Committee is controlled opposition. Obama was a fantastic president by Republican standards, Hillary, while more qualified than any candidate has ever been, has the charisma of a dumpster cheeseburger (iT wUz HEr TurN), Joe is a Nixon-era neocon goofus. They don't want to win, but if they happen to accidently win, they make sure it's someone safe and slightly right-of-center.
The last Democrat to take office was Jimmy Carter. After Reagan successfully convinced the electorate that the concept of governing is prima facie a bad idea, Dems seized the opportunity to engage in a hard-right shift and position themselves as "fiscally common-sense but socially liberal" and weaponize intersectionality into identity politics so that we'd all think it was a great victory if our tax money was being redistributed to big banks by a black man, illegal drone assassinations were being ordered by a woman and labor laws were being undermined by a gay man.
facts on facts on facts
That will cost them donor money. A long time ago Dems realized that it's a lot easier to turn money into votes than it is to turn votes into money.
Isn't this how we got trump in the first place?
Yes. Hilary thought he was easy work. Blew up in her face.
Blew up in all our faces
it blew up in my ass
Yep.
Stop playing fucking metagames and learn how to govern.
I think she'd win in a head to head against Biden. Unless trump, which he would, sabotages her at every chance they get.
I can pretty much guarantee that bidens folks want to run against the guy who keeps losing vs a young competent woman.
Don't confuse my thoughts with support. I don't like her, I'm just realistic.
Not sure Trump supporters would vote for a woman
competent ? hmmmmm
more than trump perhaps.
Eh say what you will but she is competent
She's not terrible but even the GOP could do better. Also, were I Haley, I'd just point out that if she's as bad as Trump insinuates - why the fuck did he hire her lol? TO THE UN? like holy shit donny, you're shitting on yourself you moron. but he can't help it, he's bonkers.
DONNY CAN'T EVEN FIND LAWYERS THAT HAVE LAPTOPS.
https://www.emptywheel.net/2024/02/03/trump-spent-50-million-paying-lawyers-but-taxpayers-are-providing-loaner-laptops/
No matter how much Democratic support she gets, she'll never get the nomination. Unless Trump dies before the convention. Any support she would get would literally only be to mess with Trump's head and destabilize his base.
After living through the last few elections, I'm not going to bet on whether Biden vs Haley or Biden vs Trump will lead to a better result. But I really don't see how helping Haley would actually accomplish anything. Even if the Democrats made a big (wasted) effort to push & campaign for Haley, it's not going to be nearly enough to make her the nominee.
Absent the Supreme Court declaring Trump ineligible (don't hold your breath) It's going to be Biden vs Trump. Prepare for that. Messing with the Republican's sham primary is a waste of effort and a distraction from more constructive things Democrats could be doing like getting their voters registered and ready to go to the polls in November.
They don’t want her to win though, they want her to convince some republicans to hate Trump enough to vote for Joe or not vote at all. Come to think of it, it is a pretty similar strategy to the one the Republicans have been running for years—use the underdog to neuter the bruiser before they even get to the big match.
I can think of three people I know personally who went from Bernie to Trump in 2016. It's not a bad strategy.
I’m sorry if this is offensive, but those three people sound like utter dolts. Talk about not knowing what you want…
what no they're dumb as hell. their justification was "I don't want another politician".
thing is, they're also frustrated and afraid and in that they're absolutely correct. no matter what you believe the causes and solutions are, people are noticing that they're working harder, paying more and in a much more precarious position for it than the generations before them. part of the reason that fascism is doing so well is that the people getting fucked know they need a change, and fascism is the change that the ruling class won't oppose so they actually feel like they can get it. they're not gonna love it when society runs out of queers and foreigners to destroy and they end up being the enemy of the week instead, but for right now all they can see is the walls of the current system closing in on them. in that situation, one where inaction is going to mean immediate destruction, a course shift into trumpism is a way of staying alive today and hoping you can figure out a way to unfuck things later.
I don't really see that happening tho. She barely criticizes Trump as it is. Once she loses, she'll go back to publicly fellating Trump and saying what a great man he is. I'd love to see her go full Liz Cheney, but she's far too self-serving for that.
Right wingers support right wingers. Who knew?
Who knew?
This is not "messing with Trump". Anyone in any party should participate in primaries. They decide who everyone else will get to vote for, and in some regards they are more important than the general election. For example, if someone is in a gerrymandered district, primaries are the only elections that matter for district level races.
If one party literally has only a single candidate, and thus there is no choice, don't vote in that primary. It's pointless. Vote in the other primary, for whatever candidate you like best, even if you don't like the candidate. Then there's some hope that when the general election comes, you'll at least be OK with both candidates. In the general election, vote for the one you like best, and if the candidate you like loses that election, you made a difference in the primary. Republican, Democrat, any party or no party, it's the way to give your vote the most influence.
many states restrict primary participation to past voting record.
Connecticut for example: Section 9-431 of the General Statutes of Connecticut stipulates that only registered members of a political party are entitled to vote in that party's primary, though a party may choose to permit unaffiliated voters to participate in its primary.[10]
https://ballotpedia.org/Primary_election_types_by_state
In those places one would need to register for the appropriate party an appropriate amount ahead of time. What the field will look like overall is taking shape well ahead of time, and in some places ballots will have already been set before party registration deadlines arrive.
---Hillary Clinton
Jesus fucking christ dems have you considered running a candidate that people want to vote for because he'll make their lives better, or did Bill Clinton convince you that you can just run as Gay Reagan every election and then either you win or your stock portfolio does?
If Trump is disqualified or drops out or drops dead - Nicky Haley would actually win against Biden right? And she's a fucking nutjob too. I mean they all are.
If the election was held today and Trump was the republican nominee, Biden would lose. If the election was held today and Haley was the republican nominee, Biden would lose.
It's so bizarre to me how out of touch people are with the actual state of the electorate. Joe Biden has consistently had one of the the lowest approval ratings of any president in modern history.
For comparison, at this point in his presidency Trump, who also had historically low approval ratings, had approval ratings 5% higher than Biden does now.
Let me say that again. Donald "Bigly" Trump, very stable genius esq., was and continues to be a more popular president than Joe Biden.
The problem is Biden, and we're all just sleepwalking into a furnace.
Pied Piper 2.0?
Lolbruh why tf do you think I’m registered independent?
That would be the most Dem thing Dems have ever done. Play games and get Haley elected when Biden would have just cruised over trump.
I don't suspect Biden will just cruise over Trump. Look at the polls, Trump leads in swing states. I hope Biden can win, but it won't be easy.
Don't mention polling. Centrists hate it because it indicates that their constant shift rightward has become unpopular.
Actual results since roe was overturned have been ~+9 towards dem/dem supported policies than polling has said. I still have hope.
..Where?
If he's lost the Muslim vote, hopefully he has, he's gonna lose by enormous numbers. The numbers from 2020 support this.
Georgia won by 11k votes - has 120k Muslims Arizona won by 10k votes has 109k Muslims Wisconsin won by 20k votes - has 68k Muslims Pennsylvania won by 80k votes has 150k Muslims Michigan won by 150k votes - has 241k Muslims
Haley isn’t getting elected. She has virtually no path towards the GOP nomination. If she did, MAGATs aren’t going to vote for her unless he was on the ballot, and then if she did put him on the ballot, she’ll lose the moderate votes.
Trump has a chance to cause chaos by losing another general election. He could also do even more damage by winning another general election. Haley, if she somehow won the primary and general, would be so much less destructive.
So yeah, voting for Haley in the primary is the fucking move and it’s why I didn’t vote for Biden in the SC primary.
https://www.leefang.com/p/nikki-haleys-sudden-wealth-rooted
I don’t care if she sucks. She won’t beat Trump in the end. The longer she stays in the race, the more angry he’s gonna get at his own party
People said the exact same shit about trump in 2016 and tried to do the same meta gaming shit you're trying to do, and look how that turned out. Ffs just admit you don't know what the fuck you're doing and vote like a normal person instead of big braining us into fascism again
Lmfao. Haley won’t be a fascist. The fascist will be a fascist. You don’t have to pretend like you know what you’re talking about
Liberals, the only people who will vote and run ads for the far right and then blame everyone else when democrats lose the election 🙃
Look, no Democrat is saying she'd be great or even close to being better than Biden.
But she'd certainly be better than Trump. And if she can split the Republican votes in the general election, even better.
SHE HAS THE SAME FASCIST POLICY POSITIONS AS TRUMP. THEY'RE EFFECTIVELY THE SAME CANDIDATE
When Haley tries to overthrow the government, I'll say she's as bad as Trump. Until that happens, I say Trump is worse.
No, she wouldn't be. Trump at least has value from an accelerationist POV, Haley's going to do all things Trump would but as less of a publicly shitposting moron.
I think Biden is the accelerationist candidate. Why? Bc if Trump wins, the system will just roll over and enforce his whims. The Dems will just accept it, and there likely will never be any more democracy. It will be much harder to force change. However, if Biden wins, the right will not accept it. Either the republicans will attempt to disrupt the election results, or the right will escalate domestic terrorism, etc.
It's okay to not have opinions on things
She wins the primary if SCOTUS rules that Trump is an insurrectionist, and she polls well against Biden precisely because she appeals to "enlightened centrists."
The question is not whether Trump should be barred as insurrectionist. The question is what candidate the leash holders of certain Justices want.
I have a very hard time seeing Trump supporters coming around to vote for her when he’s painted her as a part of the deep state
Jesus Christ when are you gonna learn that these stupid 4d chess moves don't fucking work? You're gonna be literally supporting republicans, and when that gets a republican in office again you're probably gonna blame 3rd party voters and leftists and young people and Russia and literally everyone other than yourself for republicans winning. This shit backfires all the time, don't fuck us all over with this "big brain" bullshit again please
seriously. i have a policy that i only vote for someone if i want them to have the office (i know, i'm a fucking lunatic).
Don’t be fucking stupid. Trump is an existential threat to the Republic and Biden is unpopular.
I'm not sure that I said otherwise.
You’re speculating Biden cruising over Trump. wtf.
She's gotta be a Democratic plant. She literally talked shit abt the GOP in the first debate.
There's a lot of shit to talk about the gop, that doesn't exactly mean a whole lot
You mean Nimarata Randhawa Haley?
I don't get it
If you don't get it, you weren't paying attention. I don't go high, I go low. Nobody ever won a war by playing by the rules.
BARAK HUSSEIN OBAMA
That's her real name, "Nikki" isn't actually her first name.
What of it? Do you comment "Joseph Robinette Biden" every time you see him called Joe Biden?
You said you didn't get it, I explained.
Nikki is not short for Nimarata, Nikki is actually her middle name (which is not her first name, like I said). I assume she goes by her middle name so people don't know she's of Indian descent.
Joe is short for Joseph.
Doesn't bother you, doesn't bother me. I'm sure the GOP feels the same way.