That shit scarred me, and I think was a major contributor to an anxious-preoccuppied attachment style as an adult. A lifetime of being put on a pedestal from the recognition I was bright and a novel thinker, and then the judgment when I inevitably goofed something up left me with a deep -rooted belief that the true me was unworthy and an inevitable fuck up. "Taniwha is an intelligent and capable person, if only he would stop being such a fuck around." I learned not to trust myself because inevitability I'd do something impulsive, or miss some social queue, or not stay with the program, which made me very Other-focused and wanting to do the "right thing" so I didn't let everyone down again.
Every single report card and evaluation I've ever received was full of back handed compliments pointing to a moral failing. "... if only he just completed his homework on time," "... needs to stay focused," "... too much time socialising with/distracting his neighbour."
"Lots of potential ... If only ..." Never enough.
Fuck you. That was the thing I was born to struggle with. How many stupid kids got sent home with report cards that said things like, "John's a hard worker and attentive student. He has a lot of potential, but he needs to work on not being stupid."
Parents: "Johnny. You NEED to stop being so stupid in class, and start being smarter or you're going to need Canada's most disciplined ditch digger."
To this day, an accomplished academic, a variable professional, and kind person I still freak out inside when someone gets excited about me. I keep falling into relationships with avoidants because trying to please someone who I've let down is just about all I know.
My shrink said that this is basically the reason why full grown adults break down crying when they receive their diagnosis.
Basically they're discovering that they're not lazy pieces of shit.
I was diagnosed at 5 and kinda wish I hadn’t been.
I’ve spent my whole life knowing this is why, and having “the tools to fix it” but they never actually helped fix it. I took myself off meds from 13-34 (and managed to get a degree in that time, but never stable employment) because I didn’t think they helped, and at 34 I used them about 6 months to see if it was better.. it isn’t, so I just feel like an extra lazy piece of shit who can’t even function with meds.
So I get this really fun dual disappointment that not only have I not managed to overcome something I’ve always known about, I also can’t find things that help when other people find such relief.
Idk if this will help you process it all a bit better but more often than not the medication needs dialed to your specifics. They'll hit you with broad dosages that need to be fine tuned over a lengthy period of time.
That's why it feels like the medications aren't working most of the time. Because the dosage may not be correct for your body specifically.
This is something I've struggled with myself. The constant fight of "do I quit taking them entirely and just raw dog life, or do I keep going through the motions until we happen to get the right cocktail"
Maybe you already knew that but I hope it helps you realize why it's such a struggle.
Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to write that out. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to be a matter of finding a dose that works, hence the 6 month period as a cognizant adult. I wanted to see if it was any different than when I was young.
I was on a wicked high dose as a kid that I basically never came down from (my docs wouldn’t even give me that high a dose as an adult). They just kept dialing it up and up because it wasn’t really helping. That’s a big part of why I took myself off it at 13. The side effects were so bad I struggled to eat for years. As an adult I played with various meds and strengths and found them to be not very effective, but with highly unpleasant side effects, similar to when I was young. And I think I understand why they didn’t work as a kid, too.. they do give me some ability to concentrate, but exclusively on stuff I shouldn’t be focused on. It basically amplifies the bad habits, rather than helping fix them. I do still use them occasionally on my off days, when it doesn’t matter what I get done as long as it’s something, but they aren’t a useful tool in daily life.
I don’t know why it’s that way, but at this point I’ve spent so much of my life not using it, and finding so very little positive value from it when I do, that I’m not willing to jump through all the hoops in hopes that some whacky combo will hit right 4 years from now. I don’t have the energy to do all that when I have other things that need that energy more urgently. Sucks, but it is what it is I guess.
Thank you for sharing so much detail. I was diagnosed at 40. Fortunately for me the first drug (concerta) they tried worked really well and it took about 6mos to find the right dosage. Boy is too much readily apparent!
My daughter was diagnosed at 21, and it took a year for her. Same doc, started with same med and she was at double the dose I am at and it just wasn’t working right. Switched her to something else (sorry can’t remember exactly) and this one works WAY better for her.
I will go of it for a few days every month or so just to “reset” (doing this on my own feeling, doc didn’t tell me to do this) because it feels like the dose is just a touch too high but the next dose down is way too low. It’s been quite a game changer for me.
The medicine might not work for you either. Ritalin and it's derivatives dont work on me, but Adderall/vyvanse does (if I can manage to take a high enough dose, but it cranks my heart rate up).
It's... torture. Its unfair. Honestly being told that by so many people is kind of why I gave up for such a long time. If I ever tried again at all. All that same 'reinforcement' and 'feedback' thrown this way and I just got so tired of hoping to not disappoint people that I gave up and just stopped trying. If I was going to disappoint them anyway I might as well do it without torturing myself in the process, right?
I'm glad you pushed through. It's difficult as hell and to do it on your own and keep pushing, especially here in Canada where mental health supports are severely lacking? I don't know you but I'm proud of you.
If I was going to disappoint them anyway I might as well do it without torturing myself in the process, right?
...but how do you keep yourself from torturing yourself for disappointing yourself?
Yeah, there's a part of me still believes I should be doing more. After my marriage failed it took a lot of feedback and journaling to accept that despite some human failings, I'm a good dad! My kids love being with me. I know them. I care for them, and I'm constantly getting better. (I ended up in subsidized housing, and there are a bunch of mums here that know what a shitty man looks like. They've done wonders for my self esteem.)
Absolutely. I definitely went through a decade after I went to university where fucking around was just a self-defense. You can't fail if you never really try. I smoked a tonne of pot. Somehow I still came out with a fairly respectable level of success. I think I've at some levels deliberately dated damaged women because having a dysfunctional relationship was 'easier' than letting someone down.
Feeling this big time. I'm sure many of us can relate way to hard to that.
If anyone asks me to take on too big of a project that requires too much planning or stretch I freak the fuck out and inevitably fail to pull it off not just because of difficulties with ADHD but also because the emotional trauma from failing to live up to expectations over and over again is paralyzing.
I'm fortunate to have found a gig where I can basically just get better at the same thing and increase my level of challenge more incrementally. And I'm recognized and respected and valued by peers and bosses. I don't need promotions or more stress or responsibility. I can contribute to helping junior folks.
I will say that getting diagnosed and thus discovering my inability to finish things or "meet my potential" wasn't a moral failing and I let myself off the hook for a lot of things pretty fast. Sure the trauma response remained but at least I wasn't constantly berating myself anymore.
we're in the same boat, friend. It's hell trying to unlearn a lifetime of being told how much "unfulfilled potential" we have
"Youd be the top of the class if you... tried"
Meanwhile I am basically at war with myself every millisecond of the day to get what I get done, done and all people see is what the winner of that war accomplished. It feels like a war but is probably better described as a tug of war where the victor doesn't need to just win but overpower their opponent enough to do literally anything else.
Kind of a mental tractor pull combined with a drag race.
There was a Bart Simpson t-shirt my mom bought me when I was a kid. Bart said: Underachiever and proud of it.
It was a total societal bullshit fest during the 90’s.
They erased mental healthcare with dipshit Ronald and then mentally fucked with anyone who didn’t conform in the 90’s.
It backfired but not enough. It’s up to us to push that old bullshit out of society now that the Boomer are all braindead.
I lived through that fucking decade and I think it has a lot to do with how fucked up I am today. The way my school district dealt with a kid that couldn't sit still was to lock them in a cinder block room with nothing but a desk and a pencil. They would keep you in there until you finished whatever assignment the teacher gave you.
Then I was prescribed ritalin. I was ridiculously allergic to it and it gave me seizures. When I wasn't having seizures I was almost catatonic which the school liked, because it meant I stayed in my chair. The school tried their best to keep me on it even though my parents were VERY unsure about the whole seizures thing and negative effects on my personality. One day I asked my mom "If I do something bad when I'm on my medicine, do I go to hell?" (I have a very religious family) and that was the push they needed to take me off it.
I haven't sought treatment or therapy since, because of that whole debacle. Every once in awhile I think about it, but it sends me in an anxiety/ptsd spiral and I chicken out.
Hell, when I graduated, they would give you your permanent record along with your diploma on the stage. Everyone else's was super thin, but mine was three folders about three inches thick each. I didn't even look at it, just burned it out of shame. I'm sure it was full of "prime mover has a lot of potential" bullshit. I wish so bad that I could be normal, but I don't think I even got a ticket for that boat before it sailed.
Sorry for the rant. Still pissed off at my school system, but not sure who to share that rage with. Fuck em all
Hell, when I graduated, they would give you your permanent record
Holy crap that was real?! I thought it was something TV shows made up to scare kids. Like, I know they keep a file on kids with important info. But every infraction or whatever is dystopian.
I also grew up in the 90s and got hit with ADD diagnosis when I was about 5 (1990). I was on Ritalin and then Adderall for years and I KNOW the dosage wasn't figured out yet and way too high. I was much more quiet, barely had a personality and would routinely give away my lunch because I had no appetite. Eventually 5-7 years of that I started just throwing the meds away and when school found out my parents took me off them.
I'm pretty sure I still have mild ADHD and have considered getting prescribed something or talking to a doc to help but like you that shit came with scars. Early adopters for meds can have it rough.
I am so sorry that sounds like a fucked up childhood
It backfired by causing school shootings. We're dealing with the fallout of Boomer-style parenting now. For anyone who has or is about to have children, look up gentle parenting.
I called myself an underachiever because the only other thing I could call myself based on what I was told every day was a failure.
I figured out how to use it all to my advantage as an adult but it was such a shit road getting there.
There was a Bart Simpson t-shirt my mom bought me when I was a kid. Bart said: Underachiever and proud of it.
I remember radio ads for some bullshit corporate product service bullshit, the announcer said "It's a no brainer!", and the simpleton character, meant to stand in for all of us, goes "Uhh... no brainer? Oh I like that, hyuck hyuck hyuck!"
I remember this ad making me angry. Then also being vaguely disturbed when I noticed that this cynical marketing profile was all over the place.
Yeah I got potential. I put in a lot of effort to reach that potential.
Did the effort pay off? No.
Did it look like I didn't do anything? Yes.
When I asked for help I was told "just do it." So I kept trying really hard but still the results were far less than the effort put in. For some reason I burnt the hell out overextending myself to get stuff done.
I feel like the task is moving water from a pond to a large basin. Everyone else got buckets and I got a ladle.
This was my life. I managed to get a masters degree and loved the process but everything else in life has been a constant struggle just to do basic things.
"Just do it"
Well, I'm trying, but my brain decided I should spend the next 3 hours doomscrolling while I mentally kick myself for not doing the thing already.
I think with adulthood there's been more things I can "just do", but the smaller things usually get procrastinated to hell and back for no reason besides "my brain didn't want to do it".
Same with potential, whatever greatness I was promised by everyone who said that hasn't happened yet.
"I know he deserves a B but he could get an A if he tried harder so I'll give him a C to motivate him"
Yeah, I had a few teachers adopting that reasoning. While kids who knew less than I did but were perceived to try harder were given better grades. Surprised pikachu when I started to barely do enough for a D.
Holy shit that makes my blood boil! If I earned a B you fucking give me a B, marks are not arbitrary and based on your feelings.
We had a teacher like this for my youngest son. Her marking of his work was consistently two letter grades below every other mark he got in all of his subjects. Got the school board involved after having a few other teachers independently grade the same paper she gave him a C on. She is no longer involved in any of his studies.
It'll make your head explode to find out that giving someone a B+ in that situation is more likely to lead to an A the next.. positive encouragement leads to positive feeling about the task. It's bullshit to think some kid is gonna think "oh I did bad I'm gonna do more of this to get better.". it's really easy to see how "oh I got this, I'm going to do more of it"
(This works for subjective learning only. Things that require mastery like mathematics needs a different system)
I guess I am the outlier here. In college I half assed a paper, figured I'd take the B so I could just be done. Prof gave me a C and told me he knew I was smarter than that and knew I could do better. I appreciated that he knew I was better than that, and didn't write my next paper buzzed. With that professors encouragement I ended up changing to a harder major overall
Humans are complex beasts.. what might work with one person might not work the next day if they had a bad sleep or were a bit distracted.. brains..
I've always had bad grades, so for that one test my mom studied very hard with me. After grades were given back, my teacher came up to me and literally said that the performance was worthy of a 2 (B) but she's given me a 4 (D) again, to motivate me.
Needless to say, motivation was not achieved.
Furthermore, it's one of the core experiences that led me to mentally check out of the school system eventually and still fuels my distrust of authorities and institutions to this day, almost 20 years later. Well done Frau Bauer.
Yeah...she didn't tell you what she was motivating you for...
Well to be fair, if she and others hadn't shown me how ridiculous this kind of hierarchical thinking is, I wouldn't have been angry enough to quit all the jobs and relationships I didn't feel appreciated at. So I kinda wouldn't be who I am without it. But I still wish I didn't have to be who I am to get by.
It was grade 4, the night before I had committed to memory the spelling and order of 20 words the teacher told us would be in a test. When the test started I wrote it out perfectly. She accused me of cheating in front of the class. I rewrote the entire list in front of her to prove my innocence. Afterwards I became less motivated.
That's insane! Why wouldn't she have given you an A to motivate you / reward you for the hard work!?
I don't want to be too "we live in a society" but I noticed that - since I'm a man / was a boy - people in care giving roles usually assumed I want to prove myself. Because All Boys™ want to prove themselves all of the time. So it's good to be as adversarial as possible, actually. To grow their character.
Regarding her generation and type of character, I wouldn't be too surprised to learn that she thought she was actually doing me a favor. Also she co-taught our class with another teacher who quite openly disliked boys in general and me in particular. Which was probably also a factor.
Wow you've brought back unhappy memories 'a for achievement, d for effort' and 'you got everything right but poor presentation, c'
Worst was when I'd to a test and get all the answers right and they'd question how I did so well, bitch because you can't take marks away for no reason on a multiple choice. Actual worst was that this was 1990 and they wouldn't let me do my homework typed 'when you get a job your boss is going to need things hand written' fucking what lol
Is that because you started doing drugs as a way to escape all of the pressure of having such high potential and low achievement? Asking for a friend...
Of course not! I wasn't doing drugs, who do you take me for! I only started doing drugs long after everybody was already convinced I was using.
Holy crap, that cuts deep.
this thing happened to me too. infuriating
I am very hesitant about this current "I have ADHD" trend I'm seeing on the Internet, but fuck every thing I see like this makes me feel like I do have it.
Anyone know Good, legitimate, safe resources for exploring if I have ADHD?
See a doctor. May not be the most helpful advice, but it helped me after 29 undiagnosed years.
You go to a doc. They’ll usually give you a form to fill out and it’s really a self evaluation. Answer enough questions the “right way” and they’ll take a closer look.
For me, the confirmation of the condition was after taking the new rx for a few days. “Oh, THIS is what a quiet mind is!”
I took my first dose of Vyvanse at 46 and realized what silence actually sounds like. Then I took a nap. I no longer take medication because I realized that I mostly have developed healthy enough coping skills at 51 years to deal but I also recognize it's a very sharp and useful tool to have in the toolbox when needed.
Hello, clinical MH counselor with ADHD here. This meme isn't a good indicator of ADHD symptoms since it more broadly reflects the experience of being a "gifted child". While many with ADHD fall into this category, it's not a proper criterion or indicator of ADHD. Many without ADHD struggled with "gifted kid syndrome" too, after all.
If you'd like an ADHD self-assessment, you can check out the ASRS-v1.1. It is NOT a diagnosis ; it only indicates that follow up is warranted. Many symptoms can overlap with things like Anxiety disorders or Autism Spectrum Disorders, etc. You need a clinician to perform a proper ddx for that. But it should be a good starting point.
Thank you for this response. I'm already diagnosed bpd, bi polar, and depression so something more technical is a better response than the go see a doctor responses that I got. Well intentioned as they might be, I already know that is a step to take. If I had money I would.
I'll look this up when I have moment is there a good place to take it online?
oh if you just search for ASRS v1.1 you'll find a pdf. it's one page. it's adapted from the ASRS-6 which is only six questions. it has expanded questions to shed more light on which characteristics present more strongly. actually only the first six are still technically the diagnostic ones, so some might say to not even bother with the supplemental extra questions if the top six dont present strongly.
with three diagnoses on the table already, you might not get a reliable result from this since some symptoms might overlap. one of the DSM criteria for most disorders is "... and isn't attributable to another mental disorder or substance use."
if i had a patient with bpd, bipolar, depression, and adhd: id want to be focused on working on emotional regulation, acceptance and self-esteem. those would help adhd anyway, but addressing it directly would be hard. thats also partially because bpd responds so well to therapy and adhd responds so well to medication/holistic healing.
okay thank you. I learned a lot from my cpl years spent in therapy, so i have developed tools for emotional regulation and awareness has done a ton for me. I learned so much about myself. I am in a much much better place now than I ever have been since graduating high school.
Good to know about the overlap, i figured as much since bi polar and bpd go together. I think one of the reasons i am so interested in ADHD at 33 years old is because I can finally devote some mental resources to learning about myself as i gain self acceptance. its let me tune in to some things about myself and observe myself and actually internalize it instead of being so low self esteem that i just kinda distance myself from me.
i hope that my success with medicinal treatments in the BPD and Bi polar realm is a sign that adhd treatments would work well too.
yeah! and i should add that part of the treatment for BPD is self-exploration and self-discovery. i support this!
Take some of the questionnaires from more legitimate ADHD resource sites. Where I scored highly likely to be ADHD, my partner did not at all.
That being said, you could also undergo psychiatric assessment with a psychiatrist, but it may be a little expensive. I would recommend it if you can, because medication and appropriate psychotherapy can greatly improve quality of life.
Yeah a psychiatrist doesn't necessarily need to diagnose you. Any licensed therapist can do it, though not all will be as familiar with the assessment process. Find one who specializes in ADHD.
Echoing others, see a doc, specifically a psychiatrist. Mine sent me to a neuro-psychologist for evaluation. It was a bit brutal, taking several hours but, it got me officially diagnosed at 31 and enabled me to get treatment that was pretty life changing.
It’s awful. It builds on the sick idea programmed into us that your productivity defines your worth as a human being.
I don't know. If I were more productive at making cookies, I would be happier because I could eat more cookies.
Being productive in things you care about is a necessary part of self care and can enhance your happiness for sure.
But that’s different than basing the value of actual people (including yourself) on productivity.
I hate this. And I hate the constant message from everything and everyone that we need to be constantly growing, learning, improving. It just makes you feel like you're never good enough, and when you get to good enough, there'll be a new level of good enough you haven't reached yet.
Can't I just enjoy who I currently am??!
I'm constantly surprised that a swath of the populous thinks that everyone else thinks the same things they do, has the same motives they do, etc. People are largely aware that there are introverts and extroverts, along with different learning styles, but that's where most people seem to stop. It extends well beyond that. People are all over the spectrum on anxiety, curiosity, desire to learn new things, where they prefer to position themselves in group settings, ability to understand where others are coming from, etc. Often when people with differences in the above meet, they fail to empathize with each other and are befuddled by that the other person doesn't think and act the way they do. We to sort ourselves into similar social groups, but it's especially amusing to watch this play out in a work environment.
Exactly. And part of that is that just because you have the skills/knowledge/intelligence to achieve something doesn’t mean you have to in order to be a good person or a success or whatever.
But some people find satisfaction and fulfillment that way, so going for it isn’t bad either. We all have different ideal states of being.
My mother was the god of the drive-by shaming where she would complain about my potential and then walk away without offering any sort of help.
So many were back then. Swaths of them also were informed that there's a good chance we had these conditions, but then handwaved them away because they got by just fine. Plus those damn doctors are over medicating everyone just trying to make a quick buck!
Don't forget all the friends of friends saying their once boisterous and weird brother suddenly turned into a zombie... By not being constantly disruptive, able to focus, and were quiet for a bit lmfao.
At work, we call that seagulling..
they swoop in, shit all over everything, and then fly away.
As graduation was looming, I was standing in the hallway shooting the bull with one of my favorite teachers when he dropped this bomb on me:
AtmaJnana, you've got a lot of potential.
You know what potential means?
...
It means you ain't done shit.
I think about this a lot. Like, a lot a lot. But I'm also happy where I'm at in life right now, so I've got that going for me, which is nice.
Yeah... It hurts.
I'm glad you're better off my friend <3
Thank you 🤗
the words "you so much potential" have done incredibly damage to my confidence. I'm trying so hard to unlearn it but no matter what I do I feel like a failure because I have sO mUcH pOtEnTiAl
Fuck.
Same.
I see it in my kid too.
How can I stop the cycle but still help.
Words suck. What are some good words for me but also my youngin
I think arming yourself with information about ADHD is your best bet to break any cycles related. Get diagnosed, get them diagnosed, seek counseling if it's feasible. There are a ton of coping skills that can help, but they have to be learned, and counseling will help in that tremendously. If that's not available, there's a ton of resources online.
It's also important to know that ADHD isn't necessarily something wrong with you, it's an adaptation. People with ADHD tend to be incredibly well performing when they're in the right environments, which is the kind of thing that can be learned through counseling or research.
Search for "adhd coping skills" and try them all until you find what works for each of you.
Since what works is different for everyone so you will both need to develop coping skills independently.
But also keep in mind that many techniques won't work for you and you need to be persistent and that doesn't come naturally with ADHD so I suggest aiming for whatever technique will help you achieve that first.
Its also crucial, when trying to teach these methods to a child, that you frame them as multiple options that can and will fail to help, and that the failure is of the method not the child.
These techniques are akin to shoes. You go to the store to try on a bunch of different styles to see what fits, whats comfy, what looks good, and what you ultimately want to wear outdoors. You dont fail to fit a pair of shoes. They just arent your size.
Trying a bunch of coping mechanisms and skills that dont work will feel like failure if framed incorrectly, and make it harder to try the next one. Kids dont always know how to change their frame of mind around these things, so its key to help make sure they dont think of it as another test to pass or fail.
I’ve started saying out loud around my child, “Doing it this way isn’t working very well for my brain. I need to try other ways until I find what works for me.”
I needed to hear that so badly as a child (heck I need to hear it as an adult!) And I’ve noticed my child is less hard on herself since I’ve started doing this.
I still feel this as an adult, I want to be a successful artist and have finished college, signed up for my doctor's appointments, but I just keep gravitating towards the easy dopamine inducing mindless activities
Maybe it's the system that's broken not the individuals.
People get uncomfortable when I call myself stupid, because they see me at moments when I can fully access my brain and keep it organized, and think that I'm able to access that state most of the time. Hell no, I work best when my brain is turned off 90% of the time hence why the majority of the time I am ACTUALLY STUPID. Still not sure if its my ADHD, my Autism, or my mental health and anxiety why I function best with my brain turned off
Stuff like this hits you harder than a gut punch
I was undiagnosed for a long time, and my progress reports always came back with "work is erratic"... How did that not send up flags?
I swear I almost wish I had ADHD. At least then I could say it's not 100% my fault for being an absolute worthless failure. "Unfortunately" that's all on me.
worthless failure can be part of the diagnostic criteria. (not really but somewhat) you may still want to talk with a professional. you have likely developed coping strategies.
Everyone is born with their own standard human brain. Just because we have named some groupings of behaviors and thought patterns, and can sometimes even point to specific causes and structural or molecular differences... it doesn't mean anyone has an "excuse," just an explanation.
People with ADHD, heck even people with TBIs, are still 100% at fault, because it's their own brain. The good news for you, is that you have more opportunity to feel fulfilled than they ever will.
It's not "our fault" cause if it was up to me, I'd have been born into the 2nd richest family, 2nd smartest man in the world, 2nd biggest dick etc. Yet here we are. ADHD and hydracephalus from birth. Definitely not born with a "normal" brain.
However, it IS our responsibility to deal with it before it becomes a problem for others.
I think responsibility is a much better word than fault. Not everyone will be able to deal with their challenges, but what I really meant was, this is your brain and no one else's.
Absolutely. Good on you realizing you made a bad choice of word there. Most people would double down.👍
Definitely think responsibility is the better word.
Have a good day, friend.
The difference between fault and responsibilty is definitely something I plan to teach my kids from an early age.
If someone rear ends me when I'm driving safely and following all the rules of the road, it's not my fault. But it's still my responsibility to get insurance information, arrange for car repair and transportation, reschedule appointments, etc. I don't get to just walk away and hope everything takes care of itself.
It's just one of those unfortunate facts of life. Everyone has to handle things that aren't their fault sometimes.
Oh that can still happen if you're diagnosed early on, trust me.
Same.
"You are so smart, if you would just be more constant!"
That shit scarred me, and I think was a major contributor to an anxious-preoccuppied attachment style as an adult. A lifetime of being put on a pedestal from the recognition I was bright and a novel thinker, and then the judgment when I inevitably goofed something up left me with a deep -rooted belief that the true me was unworthy and an inevitable fuck up. "Taniwha is an intelligent and capable person, if only he would stop being such a fuck around." I learned not to trust myself because inevitability I'd do something impulsive, or miss some social queue, or not stay with the program, which made me very Other-focused and wanting to do the "right thing" so I didn't let everyone down again.
Every single report card and evaluation I've ever received was full of back handed compliments pointing to a moral failing. "... if only he just completed his homework on time," "... needs to stay focused," "... too much time socialising with/distracting his neighbour."
"Lots of potential ... If only ..." Never enough.
Fuck you. That was the thing I was born to struggle with. How many stupid kids got sent home with report cards that said things like, "John's a hard worker and attentive student. He has a lot of potential, but he needs to work on not being stupid."
Parents: "Johnny. You NEED to stop being so stupid in class, and start being smarter or you're going to need Canada's most disciplined ditch digger."
To this day, an accomplished academic, a variable professional, and kind person I still freak out inside when someone gets excited about me. I keep falling into relationships with avoidants because trying to please someone who I've let down is just about all I know.
My shrink said that this is basically the reason why full grown adults break down crying when they receive their diagnosis.
Basically they're discovering that they're not lazy pieces of shit.
I was diagnosed at 5 and kinda wish I hadn’t been.
I’ve spent my whole life knowing this is why, and having “the tools to fix it” but they never actually helped fix it. I took myself off meds from 13-34 (and managed to get a degree in that time, but never stable employment) because I didn’t think they helped, and at 34 I used them about 6 months to see if it was better.. it isn’t, so I just feel like an extra lazy piece of shit who can’t even function with meds.
So I get this really fun dual disappointment that not only have I not managed to overcome something I’ve always known about, I also can’t find things that help when other people find such relief.
Idk if this will help you process it all a bit better but more often than not the medication needs dialed to your specifics. They'll hit you with broad dosages that need to be fine tuned over a lengthy period of time.
That's why it feels like the medications aren't working most of the time. Because the dosage may not be correct for your body specifically.
This is something I've struggled with myself. The constant fight of "do I quit taking them entirely and just raw dog life, or do I keep going through the motions until we happen to get the right cocktail"
Maybe you already knew that but I hope it helps you realize why it's such a struggle.
Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to write that out. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to be a matter of finding a dose that works, hence the 6 month period as a cognizant adult. I wanted to see if it was any different than when I was young.
I was on a wicked high dose as a kid that I basically never came down from (my docs wouldn’t even give me that high a dose as an adult). They just kept dialing it up and up because it wasn’t really helping. That’s a big part of why I took myself off it at 13. The side effects were so bad I struggled to eat for years. As an adult I played with various meds and strengths and found them to be not very effective, but with highly unpleasant side effects, similar to when I was young. And I think I understand why they didn’t work as a kid, too.. they do give me some ability to concentrate, but exclusively on stuff I shouldn’t be focused on. It basically amplifies the bad habits, rather than helping fix them. I do still use them occasionally on my off days, when it doesn’t matter what I get done as long as it’s something, but they aren’t a useful tool in daily life.
I don’t know why it’s that way, but at this point I’ve spent so much of my life not using it, and finding so very little positive value from it when I do, that I’m not willing to jump through all the hoops in hopes that some whacky combo will hit right 4 years from now. I don’t have the energy to do all that when I have other things that need that energy more urgently. Sucks, but it is what it is I guess.
Thank you for sharing so much detail. I was diagnosed at 40. Fortunately for me the first drug (concerta) they tried worked really well and it took about 6mos to find the right dosage. Boy is too much readily apparent!
My daughter was diagnosed at 21, and it took a year for her. Same doc, started with same med and she was at double the dose I am at and it just wasn’t working right. Switched her to something else (sorry can’t remember exactly) and this one works WAY better for her.
I will go of it for a few days every month or so just to “reset” (doing this on my own feeling, doc didn’t tell me to do this) because it feels like the dose is just a touch too high but the next dose down is way too low. It’s been quite a game changer for me.
The medicine might not work for you either. Ritalin and it's derivatives dont work on me, but Adderall/vyvanse does (if I can manage to take a high enough dose, but it cranks my heart rate up).
It's... torture. Its unfair. Honestly being told that by so many people is kind of why I gave up for such a long time. If I ever tried again at all. All that same 'reinforcement' and 'feedback' thrown this way and I just got so tired of hoping to not disappoint people that I gave up and just stopped trying. If I was going to disappoint them anyway I might as well do it without torturing myself in the process, right?
I'm glad you pushed through. It's difficult as hell and to do it on your own and keep pushing, especially here in Canada where mental health supports are severely lacking? I don't know you but I'm proud of you.
...but how do you keep yourself from torturing yourself for disappointing yourself?
Yeah, there's a part of me still believes I should be doing more. After my marriage failed it took a lot of feedback and journaling to accept that despite some human failings, I'm a good dad! My kids love being with me. I know them. I care for them, and I'm constantly getting better. (I ended up in subsidized housing, and there are a bunch of mums here that know what a shitty man looks like. They've done wonders for my self esteem.)
Absolutely. I definitely went through a decade after I went to university where fucking around was just a self-defense. You can't fail if you never really try. I smoked a tonne of pot. Somehow I still came out with a fairly respectable level of success. I think I've at some levels deliberately dated damaged women because having a dysfunctional relationship was 'easier' than letting someone down.
Feeling this big time. I'm sure many of us can relate way to hard to that.
If anyone asks me to take on too big of a project that requires too much planning or stretch I freak the fuck out and inevitably fail to pull it off not just because of difficulties with ADHD but also because the emotional trauma from failing to live up to expectations over and over again is paralyzing.
I'm fortunate to have found a gig where I can basically just get better at the same thing and increase my level of challenge more incrementally. And I'm recognized and respected and valued by peers and bosses. I don't need promotions or more stress or responsibility. I can contribute to helping junior folks.
I will say that getting diagnosed and thus discovering my inability to finish things or "meet my potential" wasn't a moral failing and I let myself off the hook for a lot of things pretty fast. Sure the trauma response remained but at least I wasn't constantly berating myself anymore.
we're in the same boat, friend. It's hell trying to unlearn a lifetime of being told how much "unfulfilled potential" we have
"Youd be the top of the class if you... tried"
Meanwhile I am basically at war with myself every millisecond of the day to get what I get done, done and all people see is what the winner of that war accomplished. It feels like a war but is probably better described as a tug of war where the victor doesn't need to just win but overpower their opponent enough to do literally anything else.
Kind of a mental tractor pull combined with a drag race.
There was a Bart Simpson t-shirt my mom bought me when I was a kid. Bart said: Underachiever and proud of it.
It was a total societal bullshit fest during the 90’s.
They erased mental healthcare with dipshit Ronald and then mentally fucked with anyone who didn’t conform in the 90’s.
It backfired but not enough. It’s up to us to push that old bullshit out of society now that the Boomer are all braindead.
I lived through that fucking decade and I think it has a lot to do with how fucked up I am today. The way my school district dealt with a kid that couldn't sit still was to lock them in a cinder block room with nothing but a desk and a pencil. They would keep you in there until you finished whatever assignment the teacher gave you.
Then I was prescribed ritalin. I was ridiculously allergic to it and it gave me seizures. When I wasn't having seizures I was almost catatonic which the school liked, because it meant I stayed in my chair. The school tried their best to keep me on it even though my parents were VERY unsure about the whole seizures thing and negative effects on my personality. One day I asked my mom "If I do something bad when I'm on my medicine, do I go to hell?" (I have a very religious family) and that was the push they needed to take me off it.
I haven't sought treatment or therapy since, because of that whole debacle. Every once in awhile I think about it, but it sends me in an anxiety/ptsd spiral and I chicken out.
Hell, when I graduated, they would give you your permanent record along with your diploma on the stage. Everyone else's was super thin, but mine was three folders about three inches thick each. I didn't even look at it, just burned it out of shame. I'm sure it was full of "prime mover has a lot of potential" bullshit. I wish so bad that I could be normal, but I don't think I even got a ticket for that boat before it sailed.
Sorry for the rant. Still pissed off at my school system, but not sure who to share that rage with. Fuck em all
Holy crap that was real?! I thought it was something TV shows made up to scare kids. Like, I know they keep a file on kids with important info. But every infraction or whatever is dystopian.
I also grew up in the 90s and got hit with ADD diagnosis when I was about 5 (1990). I was on Ritalin and then Adderall for years and I KNOW the dosage wasn't figured out yet and way too high. I was much more quiet, barely had a personality and would routinely give away my lunch because I had no appetite. Eventually 5-7 years of that I started just throwing the meds away and when school found out my parents took me off them.
I'm pretty sure I still have mild ADHD and have considered getting prescribed something or talking to a doc to help but like you that shit came with scars. Early adopters for meds can have it rough.
I am so sorry that sounds like a fucked up childhood
It backfired by causing school shootings. We're dealing with the fallout of Boomer-style parenting now. For anyone who has or is about to have children, look up gentle parenting.
I called myself an underachiever because the only other thing I could call myself based on what I was told every day was a failure.
I figured out how to use it all to my advantage as an adult but it was such a shit road getting there.
I remember radio ads for some bullshit corporate product service bullshit, the announcer said "It's a no brainer!", and the simpleton character, meant to stand in for all of us, goes "Uhh... no brainer? Oh I like that, hyuck hyuck hyuck!"
I remember this ad making me angry. Then also being vaguely disturbed when I noticed that this cynical marketing profile was all over the place.
Yeah I got potential. I put in a lot of effort to reach that potential.
Did the effort pay off? No.
Did it look like I didn't do anything? Yes.
When I asked for help I was told "just do it." So I kept trying really hard but still the results were far less than the effort put in. For some reason I burnt the hell out overextending myself to get stuff done.
I feel like the task is moving water from a pond to a large basin. Everyone else got buckets and I got a ladle.
This was my life. I managed to get a masters degree and loved the process but everything else in life has been a constant struggle just to do basic things.
Well, I'm trying, but my brain decided I should spend the next 3 hours doomscrolling while I mentally kick myself for not doing the thing already.
I think with adulthood there's been more things I can "just do", but the smaller things usually get procrastinated to hell and back for no reason besides "my brain didn't want to do it".
Same with potential, whatever greatness I was promised by everyone who said that hasn't happened yet.
"I know he deserves a B but he could get an A if he tried harder so I'll give him a C to motivate him"
Yeah, I had a few teachers adopting that reasoning. While kids who knew less than I did but were perceived to try harder were given better grades. Surprised pikachu when I started to barely do enough for a D.
Holy shit that makes my blood boil! If I earned a B you fucking give me a B, marks are not arbitrary and based on your feelings.
We had a teacher like this for my youngest son. Her marking of his work was consistently two letter grades below every other mark he got in all of his subjects. Got the school board involved after having a few other teachers independently grade the same paper she gave him a C on. She is no longer involved in any of his studies.
It'll make your head explode to find out that giving someone a B+ in that situation is more likely to lead to an A the next.. positive encouragement leads to positive feeling about the task. It's bullshit to think some kid is gonna think "oh I did bad I'm gonna do more of this to get better.". it's really easy to see how "oh I got this, I'm going to do more of it"
(This works for subjective learning only. Things that require mastery like mathematics needs a different system)
I guess I am the outlier here. In college I half assed a paper, figured I'd take the B so I could just be done. Prof gave me a C and told me he knew I was smarter than that and knew I could do better. I appreciated that he knew I was better than that, and didn't write my next paper buzzed. With that professors encouragement I ended up changing to a harder major overall
Humans are complex beasts.. what might work with one person might not work the next day if they had a bad sleep or were a bit distracted.. brains..
I've always had bad grades, so for that one test my mom studied very hard with me. After grades were given back, my teacher came up to me and literally said that the performance was worthy of a 2 (B) but she's given me a 4 (D) again, to motivate me.
Needless to say, motivation was not achieved.
Furthermore, it's one of the core experiences that led me to mentally check out of the school system eventually and still fuels my distrust of authorities and institutions to this day, almost 20 years later. Well done Frau Bauer.
Yeah...she didn't tell you what she was motivating you for...
Well to be fair, if she and others hadn't shown me how ridiculous this kind of hierarchical thinking is, I wouldn't have been angry enough to quit all the jobs and relationships I didn't feel appreciated at. So I kinda wouldn't be who I am without it. But I still wish I didn't have to be who I am to get by.
It was grade 4, the night before I had committed to memory the spelling and order of 20 words the teacher told us would be in a test. When the test started I wrote it out perfectly. She accused me of cheating in front of the class. I rewrote the entire list in front of her to prove my innocence. Afterwards I became less motivated.
That's insane! Why wouldn't she have given you an A to motivate you / reward you for the hard work!?
I don't want to be too "we live in a society" but I noticed that - since I'm a man / was a boy - people in care giving roles usually assumed I want to prove myself. Because All Boys™ want to prove themselves all of the time. So it's good to be as adversarial as possible, actually. To grow their character.
Regarding her generation and type of character, I wouldn't be too surprised to learn that she thought she was actually doing me a favor. Also she co-taught our class with another teacher who quite openly disliked boys in general and me in particular. Which was probably also a factor.
Wow you've brought back unhappy memories 'a for achievement, d for effort' and 'you got everything right but poor presentation, c'
Worst was when I'd to a test and get all the answers right and they'd question how I did so well, bitch because you can't take marks away for no reason on a multiple choice. Actual worst was that this was 1990 and they wouldn't let me do my homework typed 'when you get a job your boss is going to need things hand written' fucking what lol
Is that because you started doing drugs as a way to escape all of the pressure of having such high potential and low achievement? Asking for a friend...
Of course not! I wasn't doing drugs, who do you take me for! I only started doing drugs long after everybody was already convinced I was using.
Holy crap, that cuts deep.
this thing happened to me too. infuriating
I am very hesitant about this current "I have ADHD" trend I'm seeing on the Internet, but fuck every thing I see like this makes me feel like I do have it.
Anyone know Good, legitimate, safe resources for exploring if I have ADHD?
See a doctor. May not be the most helpful advice, but it helped me after 29 undiagnosed years.
You go to a doc. They’ll usually give you a form to fill out and it’s really a self evaluation. Answer enough questions the “right way” and they’ll take a closer look.
For me, the confirmation of the condition was after taking the new rx for a few days. “Oh, THIS is what a quiet mind is!”
I took my first dose of Vyvanse at 46 and realized what silence actually sounds like. Then I took a nap. I no longer take medication because I realized that I mostly have developed healthy enough coping skills at 51 years to deal but I also recognize it's a very sharp and useful tool to have in the toolbox when needed.
Hello, clinical MH counselor with ADHD here. This meme isn't a good indicator of ADHD symptoms since it more broadly reflects the experience of being a "gifted child". While many with ADHD fall into this category, it's not a proper criterion or indicator of ADHD. Many without ADHD struggled with "gifted kid syndrome" too, after all.
If you'd like an ADHD self-assessment, you can check out the ASRS-v1.1. It is NOT a diagnosis ; it only indicates that follow up is warranted. Many symptoms can overlap with things like Anxiety disorders or Autism Spectrum Disorders, etc. You need a clinician to perform a proper ddx for that. But it should be a good starting point.
Thank you for this response. I'm already diagnosed bpd, bi polar, and depression so something more technical is a better response than the go see a doctor responses that I got. Well intentioned as they might be, I already know that is a step to take. If I had money I would.
I'll look this up when I have moment is there a good place to take it online?
oh if you just search for ASRS v1.1 you'll find a pdf. it's one page. it's adapted from the ASRS-6 which is only six questions. it has expanded questions to shed more light on which characteristics present more strongly. actually only the first six are still technically the diagnostic ones, so some might say to not even bother with the supplemental extra questions if the top six dont present strongly.
with three diagnoses on the table already, you might not get a reliable result from this since some symptoms might overlap. one of the DSM criteria for most disorders is "... and isn't attributable to another mental disorder or substance use."
if i had a patient with bpd, bipolar, depression, and adhd: id want to be focused on working on emotional regulation, acceptance and self-esteem. those would help adhd anyway, but addressing it directly would be hard. thats also partially because bpd responds so well to therapy and adhd responds so well to medication/holistic healing.
okay thank you. I learned a lot from my cpl years spent in therapy, so i have developed tools for emotional regulation and awareness has done a ton for me. I learned so much about myself. I am in a much much better place now than I ever have been since graduating high school.
Good to know about the overlap, i figured as much since bi polar and bpd go together. I think one of the reasons i am so interested in ADHD at 33 years old is because I can finally devote some mental resources to learning about myself as i gain self acceptance. its let me tune in to some things about myself and observe myself and actually internalize it instead of being so low self esteem that i just kinda distance myself from me.
i hope that my success with medicinal treatments in the BPD and Bi polar realm is a sign that adhd treatments would work well too.
yeah! and i should add that part of the treatment for BPD is self-exploration and self-discovery. i support this!
Take some of the questionnaires from more legitimate ADHD resource sites. Where I scored highly likely to be ADHD, my partner did not at all.
That being said, you could also undergo psychiatric assessment with a psychiatrist, but it may be a little expensive. I would recommend it if you can, because medication and appropriate psychotherapy can greatly improve quality of life.
Yeah a psychiatrist doesn't necessarily need to diagnose you. Any licensed therapist can do it, though not all will be as familiar with the assessment process. Find one who specializes in ADHD.
Echoing others, see a doc, specifically a psychiatrist. Mine sent me to a neuro-psychologist for evaluation. It was a bit brutal, taking several hours but, it got me officially diagnosed at 31 and enabled me to get treatment that was pretty life changing.
It’s awful. It builds on the sick idea programmed into us that your productivity defines your worth as a human being.
I don't know. If I were more productive at making cookies, I would be happier because I could eat more cookies.
Being productive in things you care about is a necessary part of self care and can enhance your happiness for sure.
But that’s different than basing the value of actual people (including yourself) on productivity.
I hate this. And I hate the constant message from everything and everyone that we need to be constantly growing, learning, improving. It just makes you feel like you're never good enough, and when you get to good enough, there'll be a new level of good enough you haven't reached yet.
Can't I just enjoy who I currently am??!
I'm constantly surprised that a swath of the populous thinks that everyone else thinks the same things they do, has the same motives they do, etc. People are largely aware that there are introverts and extroverts, along with different learning styles, but that's where most people seem to stop. It extends well beyond that. People are all over the spectrum on anxiety, curiosity, desire to learn new things, where they prefer to position themselves in group settings, ability to understand where others are coming from, etc. Often when people with differences in the above meet, they fail to empathize with each other and are befuddled by that the other person doesn't think and act the way they do. We to sort ourselves into similar social groups, but it's especially amusing to watch this play out in a work environment.
Exactly. And part of that is that just because you have the skills/knowledge/intelligence to achieve something doesn’t mean you have to in order to be a good person or a success or whatever.
But some people find satisfaction and fulfillment that way, so going for it isn’t bad either. We all have different ideal states of being.
My mother was the god of the drive-by shaming where she would complain about my potential and then walk away without offering any sort of help.
So many were back then. Swaths of them also were informed that there's a good chance we had these conditions, but then handwaved them away because they got by just fine. Plus those damn doctors are over medicating everyone just trying to make a quick buck!
Don't forget all the friends of friends saying their once boisterous and weird brother suddenly turned into a zombie... By not being constantly disruptive, able to focus, and were quiet for a bit lmfao.
At work, we call that seagulling.. they swoop in, shit all over everything, and then fly away.
As graduation was looming, I was standing in the hallway shooting the bull with one of my favorite teachers when he dropped this bomb on me:
I think about this a lot. Like, a lot a lot. But I'm also happy where I'm at in life right now, so I've got that going for me, which is nice.
Yeah... It hurts.
I'm glad you're better off my friend <3
Thank you 🤗
the words "you so much potential" have done incredibly damage to my confidence. I'm trying so hard to unlearn it but no matter what I do I feel like a failure because I have sO mUcH pOtEnTiAl
Fuck.
Same.
I see it in my kid too.
How can I stop the cycle but still help.
Words suck. What are some good words for me but also my youngin
I think arming yourself with information about ADHD is your best bet to break any cycles related. Get diagnosed, get them diagnosed, seek counseling if it's feasible. There are a ton of coping skills that can help, but they have to be learned, and counseling will help in that tremendously. If that's not available, there's a ton of resources online.
It's also important to know that ADHD isn't necessarily something wrong with you, it's an adaptation. People with ADHD tend to be incredibly well performing when they're in the right environments, which is the kind of thing that can be learned through counseling or research.
Search for "adhd coping skills" and try them all until you find what works for each of you.
Since what works is different for everyone so you will both need to develop coping skills independently.
But also keep in mind that many techniques won't work for you and you need to be persistent and that doesn't come naturally with ADHD so I suggest aiming for whatever technique will help you achieve that first.
Its also crucial, when trying to teach these methods to a child, that you frame them as multiple options that can and will fail to help, and that the failure is of the method not the child.
These techniques are akin to shoes. You go to the store to try on a bunch of different styles to see what fits, whats comfy, what looks good, and what you ultimately want to wear outdoors. You dont fail to fit a pair of shoes. They just arent your size.
Trying a bunch of coping mechanisms and skills that dont work will feel like failure if framed incorrectly, and make it harder to try the next one. Kids dont always know how to change their frame of mind around these things, so its key to help make sure they dont think of it as another test to pass or fail.
I’ve started saying out loud around my child, “Doing it this way isn’t working very well for my brain. I need to try other ways until I find what works for me.”
I needed to hear that so badly as a child (heck I need to hear it as an adult!) And I’ve noticed my child is less hard on herself since I’ve started doing this.
I still feel this as an adult, I want to be a successful artist and have finished college, signed up for my doctor's appointments, but I just keep gravitating towards the easy dopamine inducing mindless activities
Maybe it's the system that's broken not the individuals.
People get uncomfortable when I call myself stupid, because they see me at moments when I can fully access my brain and keep it organized, and think that I'm able to access that state most of the time. Hell no, I work best when my brain is turned off 90% of the time hence why the majority of the time I am ACTUALLY STUPID. Still not sure if its my ADHD, my Autism, or my mental health and anxiety why I function best with my brain turned off
Stuff like this hits you harder than a gut punch
I was undiagnosed for a long time, and my progress reports always came back with "work is erratic"... How did that not send up flags?
I swear I almost wish I had ADHD. At least then I could say it's not 100% my fault for being an absolute worthless failure. "Unfortunately" that's all on me.
worthless failure can be part of the diagnostic criteria. (not really but somewhat) you may still want to talk with a professional. you have likely developed coping strategies.
Everyone is born with their own standard human brain. Just because we have named some groupings of behaviors and thought patterns, and can sometimes even point to specific causes and structural or molecular differences... it doesn't mean anyone has an "excuse," just an explanation.
People with ADHD, heck even people with TBIs, are still 100% at fault, because it's their own brain. The good news for you, is that you have more opportunity to feel fulfilled than they ever will.
It's not "our fault" cause if it was up to me, I'd have been born into the 2nd richest family, 2nd smartest man in the world, 2nd biggest dick etc. Yet here we are. ADHD and hydracephalus from birth. Definitely not born with a "normal" brain.
However, it IS our responsibility to deal with it before it becomes a problem for others.
I think responsibility is a much better word than fault. Not everyone will be able to deal with their challenges, but what I really meant was, this is your brain and no one else's.
Absolutely. Good on you realizing you made a bad choice of word there. Most people would double down.👍
Definitely think responsibility is the better word.
Have a good day, friend.
The difference between fault and responsibilty is definitely something I plan to teach my kids from an early age.
If someone rear ends me when I'm driving safely and following all the rules of the road, it's not my fault. But it's still my responsibility to get insurance information, arrange for car repair and transportation, reschedule appointments, etc. I don't get to just walk away and hope everything takes care of itself.
It's just one of those unfortunate facts of life. Everyone has to handle things that aren't their fault sometimes.
Oh that can still happen if you're diagnosed early on, trust me.
Same.
"You are so smart, if you would just be more constant!"
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