Yes but that cost money. And the company stock buy backs and executive bonuses needs to happen.
Y'all got any of them lockout/tagouts?
Lockouts SMH. Back in my day, we just died. And we were happy to work on energized systems for a bee (which was the style at the time).
You got paid? We used to have to pay for the privilege of being crushed to death at work.
We have lockout/tagout at home
Lockout/tagout at home
Is there a charge for "attempted negligent homicide" or something? You did something so catastrophically stupid that was all but guaranteed to kill someone except you got lucky, but you still should end up getting censured so you don't roll the dice on someone's life again
Reminds me of an story I heard once. Guy working on a job locks and tags out a circuit so he can work on it. Guy goes up on a ladder to do the work.
Coworker comes along and sees circuit left locked; he decides he needs to activate the circuit. Coworker uses bolt cutters to remove the lock and flips on the circuit.
Guy on ladder gets literally knocked off the ladder, falls 10-20 feet onto grass. Guy is rushed to the ER.
Boss investigates, gives coworker two options: either he can quit immediately, or he can keep working and personally explain himself to guy in a month when he gets out of the hospital.
Where I live, for that kind of incident the employer would be obligated (as in, $50k worth of fines and likely criminal charges if you don't) to report it to an independent investigator to determine who was at fault; the person cut the lock would be liable for a fine, and the employer would have to prove that they adequately trained the employee before allowing them to work in a high risk area, or the health and safety officer and company directors could be found criminally liable
In my area, there's a decent chance the guy with the bolt cutters could be criminally liable, if he was adequately trained. That could easily be negligent homicide.
You do not cut locks. If your boss asks you to cut a lock, report them so they get immediately fired. We don't fuck around with LOTO.
Now I understand why you need 20+ supervision and management staff for 2 ppl doing actual work.
I worked briefly at a store where the Store Director was clearly still traumatized about an employee death years prior. Didn't press for details, but it was preventable and they were hyper-vigilant about safety precautions.
The world would be better without Captain Bolt Cutter and their kind spreading misery with their weaponized stupidity.
I remember reading something similar, with someone responding that they were always two people for these tasks. One doing the job and one guarding the circuit, making sure this does not happen.
This is why you need 2 people to reactivate the circuit, one with the boltcutters, the other to fight the guard.
Option three - lock tag and then send coworker up, leaving original guy behind at the circuit with the bolt cutters to do as he sees fit.
No, this is a corporation, so unfortunately the best we can do is some tax cuts maybe a massive bailout.
Hey at first it said "only hit this button if you really hate Phil, it will kill him." but they thought better and changed it.
Can you perhaps relate that information in a format that doesn't involve me watching a video?
Respectfully, you are not required to get any information in a format that you don't want it. But also I don't have to provide anything in a way that would otherwise inconvenience me for a random stranger who doesn't even have the decency to say please.
If you don't have less than 2 minutes for a video then don't take the time to watch it.
I didn't say you were required to, jeez. I just asked.
I don't click on video links because they are almost always a giant waste of time.
Looks like it's a meme video (clip from the Simpsons) so yes, just a waste of time.
I'm in public and don't have headphones. I'm not clicking a video and bothering everyone around me.
When preparing/working on a machine, TURN IT OFF. IT IS LITERALLY THE FIRST STEP WHEN REPAIR ANY PIECE OF EQUIPMENT YOU STUPID PIECE OF SHIT.
Lock out, tag out
That too, but Jesus, how dense do you have to be to not even turn the machine off?
Sometimes this isn't possible if the machine needs to stay up to temp, like with plastic injection molders. In those cases, the operation can usually be stopped by a padlock placed somewhere on the controls. There's usually training about it for everyone involved to make sure they know what's up.
And if there're multiple people involved each one should have their own pad lock placed on the controls.
Yeah I came here to say that this is a fucking terrifying "LOTO" (and I'm using the term very loosely here) procedure that most likely will eventually kill someone
absolutely. I'd almost want to disassemble something like this before cleaning it properly.
That or have a very explicit physical lock out mechanism if it's something like a stamping press.
This isn't proper lock out, tag out procedure. They forgot the lock part and only have a tag.
Lockout? Never heard of him
“I thought they said lookout. Like look out for the sign. Geez.”
why aren't they doing lockout tagout?
Because they're doing note out hope out. Obviously.
Same thing I thought, unless there isn't a place for a lock.
There is always a way to disable a machine. The button has power. At the very least, the power to that button should be locked out. If it has to happen at the breaker, so be it.
Only if the breaker has it's own system for LOTO. You guys are going to get people killed lol.
Yes yes, sorry I thought my phrasing made that clear, but it wasn't.
Breaker feeding the thing power.
I'm only replying for visibility at this point because of the upvotes and the dangerous scenarios that are being promoted with this advice. Breaker with LOTO would be more acceptable but even then I wouldn't trust it. People have been killed because something was wired up wrong and circuits were accidentally connected (meaning breakers off but currents still going from a connection down the line to another breaker, it can appear that the circuit is dead until a switch is flipped sending current and happens in home lighting constantly). Also, someone can simply plug the device into another outlet leaving them with a death on their hands.
I know it's dramatic and these are just comments, but something like this could save or take a life. I've seen too many workplace accidents and refuse to work in unsafe conditions or environments anymore even if it costs me the job. Last unsafe worksite I was in, nearly all of the workers walked out together when we arrived in the morning to start at a new site and saw what the project manager had in store for us (probably helped that the owner was hated and payroll had been getting screwed up for weeks). I'll never forget that day and still keep in contact with most of them. We are all waiting and scared for the day a mass casualty is reported from the shitty work they were trying to make us do (some did report it to the authorities, but never heard what came of those reports).
Yes absolutely yes.
If equipment has a removable power feed, the plug follows the worker into the kill zone or the work doesn't get done. If the plug doesn't reach, and LOTO doesn't happen, the plug gets disassembled and brought into the kill zone until the worker returns it.
Deaths because lazy are at the feet of management.
Can they not just, unplug it, and put tape over the power point.
If a tool or machine can simply be unplugged, and the worker performing the service remains in control of the plug, then lockout procedures aren’t necessary.
They’re putting a lot of faith in that tape.
Y’all need tag out clasps
You lock it with 6 pad locks?
Just one padlock is enough, but you can use up to 6.
You need all the locks removed before it'll open, so you don't need to count on someone to carefully count everyone back in. You just make sure that each person uses their own lock
I think it's so you can create "and" conditions for unlocking. IE: If you've got two locks, each with their own key, both person 1 AND person 2 need to unlock it. So you can have multiple people and/or multiple crews working on the machine across different aspects. Maybe one crew is doing electric, the other some kind of plumbing, and they're working at different times. When one crew finishes their work, they can release their lockout without making it unsafe for the other crew.
Exactly this. Everyone working on that machine slaps their lock on it, and every last lock needs to be removed before the tag can come off. The welders might finish in half a day, but the electrical or water or hydraulic guys might need a whole weekend to get done, so this makes sure someone doesn't say "oh the lock is gone" and make mincemeat out of some dude's head.
Thought so. I work around this stuff but my end of it usually low voltage/low pressure/ low risk. We should observe it more but usually we just have someone that LOTOs anything going to us.
But yeah, and for anyone else, repairs can wind up being more complicated than anticipated, parts arrive late, etc. It's not uncommon for these to be in place for weeks sometimes when say, electrical starts something, but then plumbing needs to finish whatever before the pump motor hookup can be complete. Before you know it it's 2 weeks later, electrical had a bunch of other jobs. The LOTO makes sure they come and inspect before unlocking rather than go "yeahhhh I'm pretty sure we left that ready to turn on, go for it" plus making sure no other work got screwed up (like a wire conduit getting drilled into by plumbing).
To be sure, handing off the keys does happen, but if and when it happens there's the weight of "by handing this off you're personally taking responsibility".
You’re entitled, usually required, to add your personal lock onto this when you start working on a locked out job, that way you can be confident they’ll come looking for the last guy to lock off the job before they can get running again, it may save your fingers/arm/life or job. Usually there’s a permit involved and you should know the conditions of the permit, or have your own permit to join a job.
You know, we're not required to do that but because of you I just ordered some locks and labels for the field kit (edit: as well as breaker locks).
Our stuff is always temp (8-12mo) and on a dedicated line. The sites we're on always involve coordinating with the clients appropriate people and specifically stating we're not trained in this to their standards (which is why I know some of this stuff but not to the letter), but an extra layer is always a good idea. No harm ever came from an extra lock that couldn't be fixed.
Thanks.
edit: for the record it's not like we're negligent, everything in our system is designed to fail-safe, and we compartmentalize power delivery, but still, no harm in a few extra items in the kit.
that looks like a flogger ngl
I flogged ur mum
I saw
4th February that's an old note, better remove it and press.
Had the same thought. The American date format must be the least intuitive, but as a nerd that likes to order files and folders YYYY/MM/DD is just a win.
You meant YYYY-MM-DD
Someone databases
Not really, that's just the standard of ISO 8601. In the past I used slashes as well until someone mentioned standard is to use dashes and not slashes. Dashes also seem to have better readability.
When your life is protected by, and depends on a little scribbled piece of paper...
Today on hoodroolic press channel, ve haff an intern, a new intern who's cleaning the press, and he looks prooty dangerous, so ve must deel vif it.
I see they’re following their note-out, scribble-out procedures
The real question is whether this was put up on April 2 or is a really old sign from Feb 4. ISO 8601 saves lives people, but probably not as many as proper lock out/tag out procedures.
As long as that sign is there, don't fucking touch it. Go figure out who put it there and ream there ass for writing it instead of locking out the machine.
Greetings fellow ISO-8601 fan club member.
Fuck the paywalled ISO8601. All my homies hate ISO8601. (OK, in reality I have no one...) RFC3339!!!!!!!
maybe they just really like slash-delimited palindromes
Well, the button says “pull to start” and the sign says “do not push” so we’re good to start it, right?
they cancel one another out and it's dealer's choice
LOTO? Never heard of her.
Lock Out/ Tag Out what? Just post a handmade sign, dude
Maybe just a little push
Was hat die Reinigungskraft im Kraftwerk gesagt?
"Schalt jetzt bloß nicht die Turbiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee..."
You could press it but don't
Also the machine seems to be pull to start and push to stop...
The airlock pressurizer is keeping them alive. DO NOT PRESS THE AIRLOCK BUTTON UNLESS THEIR SPACESUITS ARE SEALED AND TETHERED. You don't want the maintenance crew shot into outer space!
I can't read, I wonder if this is the button for free candy
Should we lock & tag out the circuit?
Nah, this shitty sign should keep us safe.
Engineering the future at Boeing!
Yes but that cost money. And the company stock buy backs and executive bonuses needs to happen.
Y'all got any of them lockout/tagouts?
Lockouts SMH. Back in my day, we just died. And we were happy to work on energized systems for a bee (which was the style at the time).
You got paid? We used to have to pay for the privilege of being crushed to death at work.
We have lockout/tagout at home
Is there a charge for "attempted negligent homicide" or something? You did something so catastrophically stupid that was all but guaranteed to kill someone except you got lucky, but you still should end up getting censured so you don't roll the dice on someone's life again
Reminds me of an story I heard once. Guy working on a job locks and tags out a circuit so he can work on it. Guy goes up on a ladder to do the work.
Coworker comes along and sees circuit left locked; he decides he needs to activate the circuit. Coworker uses bolt cutters to remove the lock and flips on the circuit.
Guy on ladder gets literally knocked off the ladder, falls 10-20 feet onto grass. Guy is rushed to the ER.
Boss investigates, gives coworker two options: either he can quit immediately, or he can keep working and personally explain himself to guy in a month when he gets out of the hospital.
Where I live, for that kind of incident the employer would be obligated (as in, $50k worth of fines and likely criminal charges if you don't) to report it to an independent investigator to determine who was at fault; the person cut the lock would be liable for a fine, and the employer would have to prove that they adequately trained the employee before allowing them to work in a high risk area, or the health and safety officer and company directors could be found criminally liable
In my area, there's a decent chance the guy with the bolt cutters could be criminally liable, if he was adequately trained. That could easily be negligent homicide.
You do not cut locks. If your boss asks you to cut a lock, report them so they get immediately fired. We don't fuck around with LOTO.
Now I understand why you need 20+ supervision and management staff for 2 ppl doing actual work.
I worked briefly at a store where the Store Director was clearly still traumatized about an employee death years prior. Didn't press for details, but it was preventable and they were hyper-vigilant about safety precautions.
The world would be better without Captain Bolt Cutter and their kind spreading misery with their weaponized stupidity.
I remember reading something similar, with someone responding that they were always two people for these tasks. One doing the job and one guarding the circuit, making sure this does not happen.
This is why you need 2 people to reactivate the circuit, one with the boltcutters, the other to fight the guard.
Option three - lock tag and then send coworker up, leaving original guy behind at the circuit with the bolt cutters to do as he sees fit.
No, this is a corporation, so unfortunately the best we can do is some tax cuts maybe a massive bailout.
Hey at first it said "only hit this button if you really hate Phil, it will kill him." but they thought better and changed it.
I think this is what you're looking for.
https://youtu.be/dvnbDLs_M3A?si=mZX_72_mTBvBvVjI
Can you perhaps relate that information in a format that doesn't involve me watching a video?
Respectfully, you are not required to get any information in a format that you don't want it. But also I don't have to provide anything in a way that would otherwise inconvenience me for a random stranger who doesn't even have the decency to say please.
If you don't have less than 2 minutes for a video then don't take the time to watch it.
I didn't say you were required to, jeez. I just asked.
I don't click on video links because they are almost always a giant waste of time.
Looks like it's a meme video (clip from the Simpsons) so yes, just a waste of time.
I'm in public and don't have headphones. I'm not clicking a video and bothering everyone around me.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/dvnbDLs_M3A?si=mZX_72_mTBvBvVjI
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Here it’s w/o tracker at end:
https://youtu.be/dvnbDLs_M3A
Heh yeah that’s good
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/dvnbDLs_M3A
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
When preparing/working on a machine, TURN IT OFF. IT IS LITERALLY THE FIRST STEP WHEN REPAIR ANY PIECE OF EQUIPMENT YOU STUPID PIECE OF SHIT.
Lock out, tag out
That too, but Jesus, how dense do you have to be to not even turn the machine off?
Sometimes this isn't possible if the machine needs to stay up to temp, like with plastic injection molders. In those cases, the operation can usually be stopped by a padlock placed somewhere on the controls. There's usually training about it for everyone involved to make sure they know what's up.
And if there're multiple people involved each one should have their own pad lock placed on the controls.
Also ZIPTIE it off
And unplug it. And lock it out so some dumbass can't plug it back in and turn it on.
this is NOT tag out lock out approved holy fuck
Yeah I came here to say that this is a fucking terrifying "LOTO" (and I'm using the term very loosely here) procedure that most likely will eventually kill someone
absolutely. I'd almost want to disassemble something like this before cleaning it properly.
That or have a very explicit physical lock out mechanism if it's something like a stamping press.
This isn't proper lock out, tag out procedure. They forgot the lock part and only have a tag.
Lockout? Never heard of him
“I thought they said lookout. Like look out for the sign. Geez.”
why aren't they doing lockout tagout?
Because they're doing note out hope out. Obviously.
Same thing I thought, unless there isn't a place for a lock.
There is always a way to disable a machine. The button has power. At the very least, the power to that button should be locked out. If it has to happen at the breaker, so be it.
Only if the breaker has it's own system for LOTO. You guys are going to get people killed lol.
Yes yes, sorry I thought my phrasing made that clear, but it wasn't.
Breaker feeding the thing power.
I'm only replying for visibility at this point because of the upvotes and the dangerous scenarios that are being promoted with this advice. Breaker with LOTO would be more acceptable but even then I wouldn't trust it. People have been killed because something was wired up wrong and circuits were accidentally connected (meaning breakers off but currents still going from a connection down the line to another breaker, it can appear that the circuit is dead until a switch is flipped sending current and happens in home lighting constantly). Also, someone can simply plug the device into another outlet leaving them with a death on their hands.
I know it's dramatic and these are just comments, but something like this could save or take a life. I've seen too many workplace accidents and refuse to work in unsafe conditions or environments anymore even if it costs me the job. Last unsafe worksite I was in, nearly all of the workers walked out together when we arrived in the morning to start at a new site and saw what the project manager had in store for us (probably helped that the owner was hated and payroll had been getting screwed up for weeks). I'll never forget that day and still keep in contact with most of them. We are all waiting and scared for the day a mass casualty is reported from the shitty work they were trying to make us do (some did report it to the authorities, but never heard what came of those reports).
Yes absolutely yes.
If equipment has a removable power feed, the plug follows the worker into the kill zone or the work doesn't get done. If the plug doesn't reach, and LOTO doesn't happen, the plug gets disassembled and brought into the kill zone until the worker returns it.
Deaths because lazy are at the feet of management.
Can they not just, unplug it, and put tape over the power point.
If a tool or machine can simply be unplugged, and the worker performing the service remains in control of the plug, then lockout procedures aren’t necessary.
They’re putting a lot of faith in that tape.
Y’all need tag out clasps
You lock it with 6 pad locks?
Just one padlock is enough, but you can use up to 6.
You need all the locks removed before it'll open, so you don't need to count on someone to carefully count everyone back in. You just make sure that each person uses their own lock
I think it's so you can create "and" conditions for unlocking. IE: If you've got two locks, each with their own key, both person 1 AND person 2 need to unlock it. So you can have multiple people and/or multiple crews working on the machine across different aspects. Maybe one crew is doing electric, the other some kind of plumbing, and they're working at different times. When one crew finishes their work, they can release their lockout without making it unsafe for the other crew.
Exactly this. Everyone working on that machine slaps their lock on it, and every last lock needs to be removed before the tag can come off. The welders might finish in half a day, but the electrical or water or hydraulic guys might need a whole weekend to get done, so this makes sure someone doesn't say "oh the lock is gone" and make mincemeat out of some dude's head.
Thought so. I work around this stuff but my end of it usually low voltage/low pressure/ low risk. We should observe it more but usually we just have someone that LOTOs anything going to us.
But yeah, and for anyone else, repairs can wind up being more complicated than anticipated, parts arrive late, etc. It's not uncommon for these to be in place for weeks sometimes when say, electrical starts something, but then plumbing needs to finish whatever before the pump motor hookup can be complete. Before you know it it's 2 weeks later, electrical had a bunch of other jobs. The LOTO makes sure they come and inspect before unlocking rather than go "yeahhhh I'm pretty sure we left that ready to turn on, go for it" plus making sure no other work got screwed up (like a wire conduit getting drilled into by plumbing).
To be sure, handing off the keys does happen, but if and when it happens there's the weight of "by handing this off you're personally taking responsibility".
You’re entitled, usually required, to add your personal lock onto this when you start working on a locked out job, that way you can be confident they’ll come looking for the last guy to lock off the job before they can get running again, it may save your fingers/arm/life or job. Usually there’s a permit involved and you should know the conditions of the permit, or have your own permit to join a job.
You know, we're not required to do that but because of you I just ordered some locks and labels for the field kit (edit: as well as breaker locks).
Our stuff is always temp (8-12mo) and on a dedicated line. The sites we're on always involve coordinating with the clients appropriate people and specifically stating we're not trained in this to their standards (which is why I know some of this stuff but not to the letter), but an extra layer is always a good idea. No harm ever came from an extra lock that couldn't be fixed.
Thanks.
edit: for the record it's not like we're negligent, everything in our system is designed to fail-safe, and we compartmentalize power delivery, but still, no harm in a few extra items in the kit.
that looks like a flogger ngl
I flogged ur mum
I saw
4th February that's an old note, better remove it and press.
Had the same thought. The American date format must be the least intuitive, but as a nerd that likes to order files and folders YYYY/MM/DD is just a win.
You meant YYYY-MM-DD
Someone databases
Not really, that's just the standard of ISO 8601. In the past I used slashes as well until someone mentioned standard is to use dashes and not slashes. Dashes also seem to have better readability.
If we're having a fight over who can be the most padentic, I'd argue that's a format issue, rather than order ;)
But then again, I'm a few pints deep now and may just be talking out me arse.
YYYYMMDD
That’s just for weak machines who need to be constantly reminded what year it is.
When your life is protected by, and depends on a little scribbled piece of paper...
Today on hoodroolic press channel, ve haff an intern, a new intern who's cleaning the press, and he looks prooty dangerous, so ve must deel vif it.
I see they’re following their note-out, scribble-out procedures
The real question is whether this was put up on April 2 or is a really old sign from Feb 4. ISO 8601 saves lives people, but probably not as many as proper lock out/tag out procedures.
As long as that sign is there, don't fucking touch it. Go figure out who put it there and ream there ass for writing it instead of locking out the machine.
Greetings fellow ISO-8601 fan club member.
Fuck the paywalled ISO8601. All my homies hate ISO8601. (OK, in reality I have no one...)
RFC3339!!!!!!!
maybe they just really like slash-delimited palindromes
Well, the button says “pull to start” and the sign says “do not push” so we’re good to start it, right?
they cancel one another out and it's dealer's choice
LOTO? Never heard of her.
Lock Out/ Tag Out what? Just post a handmade sign, dude
Maybe just a little push
Was hat die Reinigungskraft im Kraftwerk gesagt?
"Schalt jetzt bloß nicht die Turbiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee..."
You could press it but don't
Also the machine seems to be pull to start and push to stop...
The airlock pressurizer is keeping them alive. DO NOT PRESS THE AIRLOCK BUTTON UNLESS THEIR SPACESUITS ARE SEALED AND TETHERED. You don't want the maintenance crew shot into outer space!
I can't read, I wonder if this is the button for free candy
Boeing? (looks like a flight attendant panel)
The intrusive thoughts...
Health and safety is going to want to see that.