USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness - Dennis Schubert

Otter@lemmy.ca to Technology@lemmy.world – 1021 points – USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness - Dennis Schubert
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I was looking for a new USB-c hub and came across this article. It's an interesting write-up of what is on the inside of some popular options

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USB-C and Thunderbolt docks/hubs are a huge mess.

Around a year ago I was searching for a solid single-cable solution for my M1 Max MacBook Pro to hook up to an external monitor, ethernet and peripherals - and best case a decent audio jack.

The MacBook supports Thunderbolt 4 so I thought I might as well go for a Thunderbolt 4 dock (as opposed to a "normal" USB-C dock), but oh boy.

First, there was the problem of display outputs. I thought I'd just get a dock with two DisplayPort ports. But there are a lot of differences. Some are DisplayPort 1.4, some only 1.2. And some use MST (multi stream transport) to support both ports; which macOS does not support. Thunderbolt 4 does support two distinct streams of DisplayPort though, so in theory docks could exist with two DisplayPort ports, each with their own dedicated stream/signal.

Long story short, there were basically no docks with these specifications. So it became clear to me early in the selection process that would need to act as a hub that has multiple Thunderbolt outputs, so I can simply use USB-C to DisplayPort cables. This seems to be the best solution anyways, as the dock doesn't limit you in DisplayPort version or feature set this way.

So I looked for a Dock with 2-3 Thunderbolt outputs, Power Delivery, USB-A, gigabit ethernet and an audio jack.

There's the Razer Thunderbolt 4 dock for example. Has all required ports, provides 90 watts of power to the computer and (at least in color "Mercury"), looks the part. Bought it, plugged it in, connected a display via USB-C to DisplayPort cable. So far, so good. USB-A seems to be working.

So, what are the problems? Well. Firstly, the ethernet controller is connected to the internal USB controller. This also means it shares bandwidth and when hammering the USB controller, doesn't only mean bandwidth is throttled, but also that latency can be affected and spike seemingly randomly (like you're on wifi). There are also reportedly some issues with USB ethernet when waking up from sleep, but this might be related to macOS. Anyways, use f* PCIe based ethernet in your 300,-€ dock!

Next problem was something I couldn't believe got through QA. When audio starts playing via the audio jack, the right channel starts playing immediately, but the left channel starts after I'd say around a 200-300ms delay. This is VERY irritating, especially with headphones. As I said I couldn't believe it so I tried other devices including Windows 10 and 11 notebooks, and they all showed the exact same issue with this dock.

I found out that the problem goes away or is at least reduced when you set audio output to 24-bit in Windows. That's not how it works in macOS though (I know you can set something in some MIDI audio setting app, but that didn't help). So you're basically stuck. It's so insane to me that this glaring and obvious issue went through QA.

Then I thought okay, it's just Razer being Razer and ordered alternative docks. Turns out THEY ARE ALL THE SAME CRAP INSIDE. Sonnet Echo 11, i-tec whatever, Kensington. If it has a similar port layout to the Razer dock, it's likely that it's the exact same crap with the only difference being the odd USB-A port more or less and slightly different PD wattage.

There's a highly praised 400,-€ dock from CalDigit, but availability was bad at the time.

I ended up getting an Anker dock for around 170,-€, which simply has 3 Thunderbolt 4 outputs and a single USB-A output. I connected a simple USB-A hub so I can connect keyboard, mouse and USB DAC and mic for audio. I use the Thunderbolt outputs for DisplayPort via USB-C and the Apple Thunderbolt (1) Gigabit Ethernet adapter plugged into an Apple Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 adapter, and that's plugged into the dock. You wouldn't believe that this abomination of adapter chaos works a million times better than this USB ethernet crap.

Now, this setup works but it's super ugly and messy on the desk.

Nowadays I'm using some HP monitor with USB-C which has built-in ethernet and USB-A ports. It's honestly not a great solution (and functionally worse than my solution above), but it's simple and doesn't clutter your desk with 3-4 different boxes and 10 cables.

Unbelievable.

So I'm not the only one pissed off. At least this.

What annoys me even more is that one of my monitors is capable of daisy chaining thunderbolt. But MacOS isn't. It would be the perfect solution, but no. Apple doesn't like it.

Don’t worry, I can’t get Windows 10 to daisy chain my work’s Viewsonic daisy chain-able displays either (they have a built in dock). Stuck plugging in one to USB-C and one to HDMI.

That’s odd considering they MADE a daisy-chaining monitor…

I'm sure that has nothing to do with money and Apple creating hurdles for competition to jump over /s

Coming from the professional/enterprise side of things, docks have been a PITA for a few years. Especially thanks to Apple Silicon and their entirely different set of protocols and standards we now have a hard time finding any reliable docks on the market. For a period of time the only serious considerations required the use of DisplayLink software (including the dock I currently run from Startech) but they all have periodic and random issues. There are some decent options on the market now, mainly from Kingston, but they still don’t easily support 3+ displays and we aren’t comfortable enough to roll them out to the whole company until Kingston handles some current issues. Peripheral hubs are the bane of any laptop-only workforce.

My org uses some Wavlink USB3 hubs and those have a ton of trouble too. Ports randomly failing left and right, particularly for the rotating offices

I have one of these and it is amazing:

https://tobenone.com/products/15-in-1-tobenone-usb-c-docking-station-dual-monitor-dock-with-150w-power-adapter-uds032

Highly recommend for a fixed workstation docking station.

Great that it works for you, but this dock has many of the same issues I'm describing in my post. Outputting to two displays uses MST, so it simply won't work under macOS (except for cloning the image). Ethernet is internally connected via USB instead of PCIe.

Note that all USB 3.1/3.2/(whatever, fuck USB naming) docks have these problems, but Thunderbolt 4 docks can - in theory - do better.

That's a Windows dock - you'll want to look at their Mac series for the Mac/Thunderbolt ones:

https://tobenone.com/collections/for-mac

The reviews on Amazon seem to indicate that Mac people are running 2 displays without issues from these docks. I can see that there are 2x DisplayPort options on their site.

I'm running dual 4K monitors from mine. Not using ethernet so can't comment on that. I have no issues with the audio jack output, works perfectly and very low latency with Asio4All. It's really neat to set my laptop down and plug in a single cable to both charge the laptop and output all the ports.

edit: Looks like they have some docks specifically for M1/M2 Macs to allow dual displays:

Their Docks with dual display out for Mac either use two USB-C ports to the device or use DisplayLink, which is a whole other story. While it's true that the normal M1/M2 only support one external display, the Pro variants support two, and the Max variants up to four (which is impossible via a single cable though).

And that's alright, as (single) USB-C 3.x docks can't support two independent DisplayPort streams. Proper Thunderbolt 4 docks could very well though.

Also, docks for Mac or not, if it's USB, it's probably the same Realtek Ethernet chip the guy in the article linked by OP is talking about. And that has its own host of issues.

That's very interesting. I have been contemplating switching to Mac recently, and it's a bit surprising to hear something that Windows can apparently do better. Thanks for the info.

FWIW, I have no issue with the CalDigit TS3 Plus dock, although since I have an M1 that doesn’t allow dual external displays anyway, I can’t test that.

Actually nvm, I do have issue. I gave up trying to connect the external monitor to that dock and instead connect it separately. I forgot why I do this, though, to be honest … I had some issue with it IIRC

Edit: I just tried connecting the display through the dock again, and it works without issue; perhaps something changed since the last time I tried (OS version, for one; it might have also been my old work laptop that had the issue, and I simply just wanted to use the same setup for both)

Edit 2: Ah, this is the issue, and it's subtle! If I use the CalDigit dock to connect the (5K) display, it is, for some reason, very subtly but definitively blurry. However, connecting directly to its own Thunderbolt port on the laptop makes it clear.

I posted the links for someone else, but looks like Tobenone have some docks specifically for M1/M2 Macs to allow dual displays:

Note: no idea if this works or not. I suggest looking for reviews

Cool, thanks. Well, my solution of just connecting two thunderbolts (the monitor, and everything else (the dock)) is fine for me now, so I'm not going to purchase those until I get around to purchasing an M2. At that point, I will be interested, too, in what works.

USB-C and Thunderbolt docks/hubs are a huge mess.

USB itself -- as in, the entire standard set of standards -- is a huge mess. The people in charge of it totally lost the plot on what "universal" is supposed to mean somewhere around version 3.0. The whole point of USB was to replace a whole bunch of different types of cables with one kind of cable that you could plug in and know would do whatever you needed it to do. But now there are so many different speeds and Alternate Modes and various schemes for transmitting power that not only are we back to the Bad Old Days of having different cables with different capabilities and uses, but now it's even worse because all the damn things look the same from the outside, so you can't even tell which does what without resorting to using shit like this to query the device capabilities!!!

A monitor with Ethernet? That sounds interesting.

Can you please give me the model name? Thanks!

Docking monitors are pretty common, must vendors should have them.

They are generally a bit shit, however - much like these docks

HP Z27k G3

It's not Thunderbolt, "only" normal USB-C, but it works okay, especially considering the price.

Keep in mind that the daisy chaining feature is pretty useless with macOS, as, you guessed it, it uses MST (it has to in this case to be fair) which macOS doesn't like.

You get 90 watts of power delivery, 4 USB ports and GbE.

Oh my gosh, this reads exactly like an ATP episode chapter.. Yes, docks are hilariously bad with the overpriced, or apparently not overpriced, Caldigit dock being the unicorn. Which one are you? John, Marco, or Casey? 🤭

Just imagine how easy things would have been if these 3000$+ computers had the necessary ports built into them.

3 usb type-c and two type-A ports, hdmi out, sd card reader should be bare minimum. A 3.5mm headset jack and collapsible rj45 or very least rj45 to usb adapter should also be included on machines intended for professional use.

Edit: for those complaining about having to disconnect multiple cables, sure you can buy a hub or dock if you want ease of use. But that would still be possible on a machine with its own ports. You don't have to have a working dock to actually use the machine.

Just imagine how easy things would have been if these 3000$+ computers had the necessary ports built into them.

That would only solve some problems. My typical problem of not wanting to wire up 6 or 7 cables every time I switch between home-office and office would still go unsolved. Just plugging in a hub that already has keyboard, mouse, headset, monitors, and preferably even power attached is very nice to be actually flexible with the setup (also when quickly moving to a conference room and back).

You do realize that you can have both, right? Your laptop could have 6/7 ports but you could choose to use a usb-c hub for convenience. And, if you're travelling or your hub breaks, you still have all the ports in your laptop.

Which is, why I said, it would only solve some problems (stronger highlight this time). Sure I can have both. But the hub would still be a problem if it broke after not even a year and/or burns my house down.

I have some small usb adapters I keep around for travel that work with all my laptops. They work fine in a pinch for my desk it my main hub goes down.

The problem is they stopped making the dumb click in docks that just connected right to the motherboard. I think they did this for "thin" and also those docks just worked too well, and basically never died. And you needed one from the laptop vendor because they were model specific. But man, the USBC crap is STILL not really an improvement.

But… but then you’d have to make them 0.01mm thicker.

That's the excuse they feed you for sacrificing on usability, durability and also added expenses of buying more and more dongles.

No thanks, I plug 2 cables into my MBP and get:

  • Multiple USB-A/USB-C ports

  • Ethernet

  • 3 monitors

  • Power

  • Sound

  • SD card reader

  • And a few other things I don’t use

Contrast that with my old MBP that had “all the ports”, I’d have to plug multiple things in, I still had to use hubs, and it struggled to drive 2 monitors. No thanks.

You can use a thunderbolt hub if you want. The point is that with every other brand, you don't have to.

My Latitude has 3 USB-A ports, micro-SD, RJ-45, HDMI, audio jack, Dell power connector, and a full-sized thunderbolt USB-C port that you can also use to charge your laptop while doing all the things that Apple's mandatory USB-C ports do.

So now if I'm at my desk I can plug one cable just like you, in the same hub that you do. And if I'm on the go and need to plug something in... well let's just say it's a pleasure of mine to lord it over the Apple-only guys that I don't need 300€'s worth of cable spaghetti to connect to the beamer in the meeting room.

I will never get how and why Apple shills defend the shit that Apple does. How does proving less functionality benefit ANYONE but Apple? This behavior is so obviously against your own interest! Like, get whatever laptop you want, I don't care and I see that Apple does some things right. This isn't one of them and there is zero objective reason to defend them for removing standard connectivity from their laptops.

Last I checked my work MBP M1 has an hdmi port and 2 ways to charge it. Don't need more than that in a conference room. For home use, a dock is a must, since I'm not unplugging a million connectors every time.

Besides, my Dell XPS laptop doesn't even have that hdmi port. It's not just an Apple problem, everyone did it now.

I will never get how and why Apple shills defend the shit that Apple does.

They want the product because it looks fancy and they don't know any better about the specs to realize it's overpriced. Or they do know and don't care because it's a status symbol. Which is worse, really.

I mean the first iPhone couldn't even use the music on the phone for ringtones. There were like 10 pre-loaded rings and that was it. Meanwhile my Windows smart phone could use any MP3 on the SD card (which could also be used to play music). But people were lining up around the block for the iPhone even though it was objectively worse that the other phones at the time. It was just shiny and didn't require thinking to use, just blind acceptance.

3 usb type-c and two type-A ports, hdmi out, sd card reader should be bare minimum. A 3.5mm headset jack and collapsible rj45 or very least rj45 to usb adapter should also be included on machines intended for professional use.

Who decided that's a work requirement? 2 usb c, 1 usb a, and hdmi is about all the average person needs for work use. Anything more than that and you should just get accessories. Usb hubs aren't a new concept.

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"Unfortunately, looking at the hardware information, … it’s another Realtek RTL8153 …"

Are Realtek network chips still bad?

I had often issues with multiple Realtek wifi chips on Linux years ago and researched a bit. Apparently, they just reiterate their prior generation with patched-on features. And not only in software but in hardware too, to flood the market with cheap chips. To make it working smoothly on Windows, they use dangerous hacks in the driver, which Linux has not.

So this is still the case? I don't buy Realtek anymore and look closely on components.

I still avoid them like the plague... Even 20 years later... Imagine my surprise when I found realtek sound cards -_-

Their soundcards were not affected. Are they bad too now?

First ones didn't work out for me either, driver hell. Eventually they worked, but it was painful.

I miss the days where you could just buy something from Logitec or Hayes or Gravis or CH Products and know it was not garbage just because the brand could be trusted. Finding a trustable brand these days seems super hit or miss. You'll get a great item and then the next one will be some cheap china garbage that dies in 4 months.

just because the brand could be trusted

You'll take your $200+ gaming mouse that has a 90% chance to have a double click issue because we can save $0.02 per mouse by using cheaper switches, that'll force you to get multiple replacements through warranty (if it hasn't expired yet), and you'll like it!

- Logitech

Meanwhile, my OG G502 mouse from 2013~ is still working perfectly almost 10 years later.

Went through three of those damn mice and every single one did that click doubling thing eventually. One didn’t even last a year.

I too gave up and plugged in my ancient 502 and have been using it for two years now on top of its original run of like seven years with no issues.

Logitech sucks.

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It's still working? The engineer must've fucked up on the built in 5000000 click failure trigger

Holy shit, I am experiencing this issue right now and didn't know it was a common problem.

G502 user of 6 years, constant use as a gamer, and still going strong.

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I don't think Logitech has been a contender for years now. At least for their desktop peripherals. I used to be a fanboy, but had three mice all fail the same way within a year (middle click failed), then my new, expensive keyboard I bought for the office started dropping many keys under my left hand. And I work from home, so the keyboard only had a few dozen hours of actual use on it.

It feels like there are so few options for peripherals that have the features I want, but don't have gaudy LED light effects or an otherwise silly "gamer" aesthetic.

I've had three different G603's replaced for free because the scroll wheel starts behaving erratically after a while. No hassle though, and the latest one has lasted long enough that they seem to have (hopefully) fixed the issue. I've also had good luck with their mechanical keyboards.

I don't have anything nice to say about the state of their webcams though, especially in price/performance.

It's so terrible. The brands that used to be reputable are now doing the same thing as the El Cheapo brands to save a buck. Of course they also just mark it up riding on their name-recognition and trust they had built previously. Now it seems to make little difference, unless you look closely at what they offer and how they offer it.

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The problem is that almost all electronics available online (not just on Amazon) are rebranded Chinese bargain bin garbage marked up by 10x and people think "it must be good because it's expensive".

Really your only option is to either accept that everything is disposable and will need to be replaced frequently, or to find the "good" brands and stick to them.

That last part is by design... it's why a lot of this shit is perpetuated by the same parent company under a different name, to create a "hostile environment" to make it so you can't shop around for cheaper prices.

All valid reasons, but the underlying of it all is that the USB consortium that comes up with these standards and fucked up the usb-c standard leaving us with this quagmire of cables and dangles. Remember the first USB-C cables? The ones that caught on fire? Or where USB 2.0 with USB-C connectors? Pepperidge Farm remembers

This comment is basically just a tl;dr of the OP

TL;DRs are valuable contributions!

Also, his last point is synthesizing a new argument that the situation is a deliberate confusopoly.

That’s fair. I’d call the last point new commentary more than an argument since he didn’t really provide any evidence that it’s true. /pedantic

I'm confused why everybody calls these USB hubs -- they aren't hubs they are docking stations. A hub provides N USB ports so you can connect multiple. These provide other ports like ethernet, HDMI, etc. But do nothing if you actually want to plug more USB devices into your computer.

The best actual USB C hub I found is this:

https://www.cambrionix.com/products/thundersync3-c10

It is crazy expensive, and still doesn't work that well, but it seems to be the best thing on the market. I still have to power cycle mine once a week or so because the connected devices stop being visible.

Now that's a USB C hub.

I hate the way when you search for USB C hub on amazon you get a list of USB C dongles with ethernet and HDMI, a couple of A ports and 1 or maybe 2 C ports.

This one has a massive power brick and all ports can charge and run full speed. I’ve restores multiple iPhones and iPads simultaneously with it. It would be about perfect if it didn’t randomly drop ports once a week or so.

That's because it's not a USB C hub, it's a Thunderbolt 3 hub. And the claims it makes are just about Thunderbolt 3 specs. There are better and cheaper Thunderbolt 3 and 4 hubs.

I'm still confused because no one explained why they do this.
And for USB hubs it was hard enough to find a decent powered version for regular Type A ones. It felt like everything was some chinese garbage that would fry your devices, based on various reviews - if you could even find a powered one that is. Ended up paying somewhat premium for an Icybox. Not that I regret the purchase, but I feel something as simple as an USB hub should neither be that expensive nor that hard to find, or in regards to quality to produce.

Many companies changed the name of dockimg stations to port replicators (ex. Dell) specifically because you can no longer set your laptop/notebook on it to charge. So instead of 'docking" you are adding/replicating ports

Thank you, I love exactly these kind of dives. Realtek makes absolute trash, they just happen to make affordable trash. The DP to HDMI chip was interesting, given most of these dongles provide hdmi I assumed the main usb-c hub actually did HDMI protocol translation internally, or I think alt-mode has proper hdmi support?

I go through these pretty quick too, they don't last long, I had good luck with the Startech dkt31chpdl and an anker which is an upgraded version of the one you "liked".

Overall I've found they mostly die, I have a Lention that seems to be chugging along, as well as 2 Lionwei's that haven't given me trouble yet, but mostly I've found Caldigit thunderbolt does the job reliably and for more than 6 months at a time.

Thunderbolt certification is considerably harder to attain than simply USB, so thunderbolt products generally are of better quality but more expensive.

If you don't care about the waste, I'd suggest going shopping on AliExpress with $10. The (USB) hubs you'll find won't be of good quality, but they won't be that much worse than the ones that sell on Amazon for $50+

Alt-Mode HDMI stopped at 1.4b. Everything now is DisplayPort Alt-Mode to HDMI. The translation is simple enough it can be done passively and components can fit inside the connector, meaning it looks like a simple cable.

Drawbacks are you can't get GSync, Freesync, or VRR. Also Nvidia's drivers only output 2.0 Audio over DisplayPort, so no surround sound.

Til. Shame, but DP is much better anyway. That explains why I can rarely get more than 1080p out of those anyway, only have a few good ones that go to qwxga.

Hdmi is such a disaster of a standard, I wish they'd just make new versions a different connector running DP, everyone would be happy, though the 5 people using the ethernet support would be SOL.

On YouTube I see guys make custom connectors for old ass computers with extinct connectors. Also as a child I made TV antennas out of paper clips. Cheap is king baby

The protocols were way simpler, that's why.

Go read about UART (which you'll find in the Serial connector) which is still used nowadays as one of the standard peripheral inside microcontrollers (including in the cheapest $0.25 ones) and then go read about USB (you can start with USB HID, which is just the stuff for mice, keyboards, joysticks and the like).

Ditto for VGA versus HDMI.

You need a bloody software stack (which in dedicated adaptor chips is transformed by circuit generation software into a in-silico hardware implementation) for the newer stuff whilst the old stuff could often be done with a bunch of resistors and a handful of digital basic elements (no more complex than flip-flops).

This resonates so much with me.

I had a similar experience with dongles, but also with some hardware like screwdriver kits.

It seems like the amount of choice we get nowadays is inversely proportional to the quality of the products.

It can become excruciating to shop for the most basic items on Amazon, because most of them are just cheap shit.

That's the price you pay for relocating so much stuff.

It also makes Amazon a lot less enticing to shop on. If I want cheap shit, I'd just as soon get it cheaper direct from China (Temu, AliExpress). If I want brand name products (IDK - do they even exist anymore?) I need to go to like Best Buy I guess.

If I want brand name products (IDK - do they even exist anymore?) I need to go to like Best Buy I guess.

I find best buys store brand "insignia" to be a good middle ground for not being cheap garbage, and being something I can carry straight back and demand a refund if it's crap

Amazon is just Wish but more expensive. But even if you go to Best Buy or Microcenter, you can still end up with the same rebranded crap.

My Amazon use has declined greatly since 2018ish. I now only go there if I know exactly what I want and need it relatively quickly. Also it's usually £5 or so more expensive because they know people will pay it for the convenience.

The deluge of Chinese tut and guff makes any kind of browsing impossible.

The only dock that's actually as advertised with all the bells and whistles is made by Caldigit.

It's ungodly expensive, which sucks, but it has been 100% flawless for my M1 MacBook Pro and M1 Mac Mini for at least a year now.

Also if anyone has recommendations, I'd appreciate those too!

Lenovo USB C hubs. I went with them specifically because of the issues in this article, and I trust them to at least thoroughly validate their designs. Can’t speak for MacOS but mine works well with a thinkpad. The product lineup is confusing but they publish complete specs and the products generally perform as advertised. There’s also a decent used market at fair prices, presumably because they’re widely used and subsequently sold off by businesses/employees.

Rebadging OEM stuff is the name of the game for pretty much all low and mid tier companies. D-Link and their ilk. They presumably employ a small team to tweak the designs and ensure they’re compliant and safe(or maybe they outsource that too). But designing stuff from scratch is the preserve of the mega corps.

Docks in particular surprised me because I expected them to be fairly simply devices routing signals. They’re not and the portable ones are pushing the limits in terms of throughput and current draw possible in a small package. Hence, even if you’re not going to buy from a large company, you should use them as a guide to determine what’s practically possible. If Lenovo or Dell or whatever aren’t shipping a comparable device to the one your eyeballing from some random company then the chances are it’s because it’s simply not practical or possible.

Not a standalone hub or dock, but Dell makes some pretty solid docking monitors. I’m using the U2721DE model daisy chained to another monitor.

Thanks for posting the article. I’ve been holding off buying a usb hub recently because I couldn’t find any decent ones, even from retail stores. All I’m after is a USB-C hub with USB 3.2 ports (A and C), impossible apparently. At the end of this article he linked what he is currently using which, despite being expensive, is exactly what I’ve been looking for.

The CalDigit Element Hub. Their products all look quality.

I've tried a few and landed on the "VaKo 12 Ports Dockingstation". Most reliable hub I used so far. I bought it 3 years ago and it's still working flawlessly.

Not mobile but I love my TS3+ for CalDigit. I know they have a TS4 now but the TS3+ has served me well since my 2019 MBP and my M1 Max MBP. I even bought a second one this year for another location I work at.

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I got UGreen. Working rock solid for about a year 9-5.

It has power pass through to charge the laptop.

If yoi are looking for something good, Microsoft Surface Docks tends to be a solid yet underrated option that I rarely see people talk about, as their hardware design is usually exceptionally good.

Otherwise, I'd say Lenovo or Dell's business lines, because corporate IT had to deploy so many of them that most issues would be ironed out at that point.

Yeah, but paying $300 for one is crazy for the average home user. If I am spending company dollars, then sure, there is a reason to go for the brand name. But for my home setup I want something between cheap and crazy expensive.

In your scenario, I would say the best option would be buying used enterprise stuff for your home setup if you want both quality and relatively low price.

The Dell D6000 actually works pretty well. I have it running two monitors, keyboard, mouse, Ethernet, USB-A microphone, and analog speakers via 3.5mm. Every once in a while I’ll need to reseat the cable if the HDMI-based monitor doesn’t wake up.

Can confirm, Dell's docks work great because they just have to provide high-quality docks to their business customers (such as my company).

The only complaint I have is that some of their dock (dunno if it's the 6000 series or other ones) use DisplayLink when you connect multiple monitors, which is a closed protocol with shoddy support on Linux (according to some colleagues it has gotten better, but YMMV). Everything else works has been working perfectly for years though.

Thanks for the tip. I have a random "Pluggable" brand docking station that works fine with Windows but not my Linux laptop, neither with Zorin or PopOS. I get nothing from either monitor and can't get DisplayLink to properly install on either OS.

I will look into Dell. Do you know of an easy way to tell if DisplayLink is required? I'm looking at this one and don't see it mentioned:

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-dual-charge-dock-hd22q/apd/210-bexl/pc-accessories

It's a pain in the ass with Dell. The one I have on my desk right now is a K20A001, which works great, but I know the newer Dx000 series that our ICT department bought all use DisplayLink. However those seem to be explicitly mentioned on the spec sheet, so there's hope that if it just says "DisplayPort" then no DisplayLink is involved. Maybe double-check google just to make sure, if it's DisplayLink there should be people complaining about it.

Same here. I've had one for close to 4 years and I haven't had many issues with it at all.

That's been a good one for me too. I have been running the Dell D6000 for over 4 years now for work, no issues. Every port but the 3.5 and one of the USB-Cs being utilized daily.

We bought those anker hubs as bootleg docks at the height of the supply chain crises. Because I had 150 laptops to deploy and nothing to connect them to (we were replacing desktops and older dell e dock types)

These generally have been serviceable en-masse. I expected higher failure rates but was surprised pelasantly. We still have and use them for imaging on our workbench. Many we gave to folks for hybrid folks under the agreement they keep their mouths shut and never bring them back. Only trusted users even got the offer.

We had about 5 doa. Another 5-10 died in the first year of service. The rest, still going strong.

I actually owned the first one he mentioned and it died after a few months of 9-5 usage.

I had tons of issues with the cheap ones sold by 3rd party resellers, mostly because they are cheap chinese crap with bottom of the barrel components inside. However, what the author fails to pay attention to is that Macs have Thunderbolt 4 ports. Yes, Thunderbolt is compatible with USB-C, but you are adding a layer of complexity into the mix. Instead I recommend getting a native Thunderbolt dock.

I eventually paid a premium for a native Thunderbolt 4 dock and have had zero issues since.

Yes, Thunderbolt is compatible with USB-C, but you are adding a layer of complexity into the mix.

While that is true for Thunderbolt 3, it is no longer true for Thunderbolt 4, as Intel donated the Thunderbolt specifications to USB-IF specifically to reduce the complexity you mentioned.

Thunderbolt 4, instead of extending the USB-C spec with another protocol, is now just a maxed out USB4 Gen 3 with all the bells and whistles (except EPR I think), and Thunderbolt 4 is mostly just a label Intel charges money to slap on at this point, as any USB4 Gen 3 spec'd device should work the exact same.

I came across this article way back when I was searching for a true to the name USB-C hub in that a device that gives you more than 1 usb-c socket!

When I read the article I gave up searching for them and now refuse to by anything that resembles a USB-C hub due to this article and the lack of true to the name USB-C hubs.

I have a bunch of USB-A to C adaptors and a USB-A self powered hub that gives me 7 USB-A ports 👍

Hubs are one of the reasons I pushed my brother to get a ThinkPad for University. He has all the ports he wants, no need to carry a stupid USB hub.

Thanks for sharing. This is very timely because my gaming pc had it's ethernet port fried during a lightning storm this weekend. I grabbed my anker "Anker USB C Hub, PowerExpand 6-in-1 USB C PD Ethernet Hub". One thing I noticed is that it appears to have a different ethernet than your anker device. I'm seeing a ASIX AX88179 USB 3.0 to Gigabit Ethernet Adapter.

I'm very much a novice in this space, but is using a USB ethernet adapter preferable to a wireless access point that is close to my machine? And if so, does it make any different if my USB ethernet adapter also is used for additional USB ports? And if I am shopping just for an ethernet adapter, what manufacturer controller should I be trying to find for a windows machine?

is using a USB ethernet adapter preferable to a wireless access point that is close to my machine?

Almost certainly. Always go wired when possible. Not only will the wired device be faster, there will be more bandwidth available for other devices still using wireless. Wireless is a shared transmission medium you want as few devices using it as possible.

Thanks, some folks on reddit were saying the ethernet to USB degrades the speed of a native ethernet port or PCI (unfortunately my ITX build has no extra PCI slots). But even if I took a minor hit in speed, I prefer the consistency of having no packet loss. I live in a high density area with a lot of wifi networks nearby.

Ideally should I try to find a Intel Ethernet device?

If you have a native Ethernet port, use that. If you don't, ethernet over USB-C or on a PCI card is approximately as good. A USB 3.0 adapter + port is technically slower, but if your network isn't capable of speeds faster than a gigabit, the adapter won't be the limiting factor. For most people, these are all good solutions. Faster networking equipment is still somewhat specialty/niche.

USB 2.0 adapters/ports can cause problems though, as it's capped around half a gigabit. While this likely won't affect your access speeds to the public internet, it will likely slow file transfers to other devices on your home network.

The chipset maker isn't a perfect heuristic, as shown in the article, but I've had pretty good luck with Intel and Marvell.

USB degrades the speed of a native ethernet port or PCI

It'll be limited by the USB controller really. USB ports on one controller share bandwidth so if you're using most of the available bandwidth (such as on the old 3 gigabit/s USB3 ports) you might notice some lost speed but otherwise you should have plenty of bandwidth for a gigabit connection

Ideally should I try to find a Intel Ethernet device?

Honestly if you've already got something that works I wouldn't bother buying something else because it might theoretically be better

So my fried Ethernet port is stacked on top of 2 specialty USB 3.2 Gen2 ports separate from the regular 3.2 Gen 1 ports. Any advantages using those 3.2 Gen 2 ports with a USB ethernet? Do I need to make sure the USB adapter is rated for that. Asrock B550 ITX Phantom Gaming specs for reference: https://pg.asrock.com/mb/AMD/B550%20Phantom%20Gaming-ITXax/index.asp

So USB 3 has a super confusing naming convention nowadays. In short, "USB 3.0" has been renamed at least twice since it was first introduced and the naming conventions have simply gotten more confusing as time goes on. The one good thing I can give USB-SIG at this point is that bigger number does in fact equal more better

In your specific case, it really shouldn't make any difference what port you plug into because we're talking USB speeds of between 5Gbit/s and 20Gbit/s which of course is far more than the 1Gbit/s (plus some for protocol overhead) you need for a gigabit Ethernet connection

This is why I basically buy all my minor electronics off Aliexpress. All of those "air pods" are all the same. The $60 are the same as the $40, which are exactly the same as the $8 ones, they just have fancier packaging and English insert that is actually readable.

Total side note but the utility knife pictured is the Stanley FatMax utility knife. It’s not perfect but of the 6 or so I’ve tried, it’s the one I hate the least.

I've been happy with all my FatMax line of tools so far, especially the tape measure. Thanks for the tip on the utility knife, will look for it!

Did about a year of a docked laptop setup. Basically anything CableMatters is good. I used the ‎201331-BLK-J (DisplayPort Ultrawide) and the 201310-BLK-N (HDMI 2.1 OLED TV).

I would pass through my 100W charger and it worked fine. Audio would be sent over the video connection which meant no driver issues. I had speakers connected to the monitor.

The rest of the USB ports were miscellaneous and at least one cable going to the monitor to use its USB ports.

/me proceeds to Google, type cable matters Usb-C, click on website... First link "usb-c docking station with remote controller"

Wait, what?!?

Haha, yeah I see have one. It seems targeted for Samsung DeX and/or using it on a TV. It has a straight up a wireless keyboard on the back of the remote. Could make sense since, if you're trying to use it as an Android TV replacement, you can't use the on-screen keyboard.

Their website is easier to find stuff and each product has an Amazon link.

USB-C hubs all seem to be dodgy crap made by anonymous Chinese companies and resold through various companies, including the likes of Apple. There's an absolute dearth of hubs made by actual reputable firms.

I'd really like a tiny USB hub with 2 to 3 ports (say 2x A and 1x C) and a mSD reader, as an accessory to my phone or tablet.

I don't get why everything needs to be so large and overengineered.

There's a pretty large market of people who want to use a desktop, with its large, dual monitors, high-capacity external storage, printer, high-speed wired network, physical mouse/input device when they're in their office, but still have the flexibility to carry a relatively high performance computer with all their stuff to meetings.

Simple usb dongle/expanders are much easier - I've got a 4 port with all As, a usb-mSD adapter, and a A/C adapter, and I don't think I paid $30 for the whole deal. Something like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09MLRPTT2

That 3-port variant is close to what I'd like, I couldn't find one like it. I still wish for a bullt-in mSD reader, as that's another device to carry, and a short cable instead of a direct USB port...

But yea close enough I guess, I'll see if I can find one like it. Thanks.

Tl;dr: Mac driver has issues with an often used cheap and buggy realtek network chip.

I don’t know why it has taken so many tries for the original writer to realize this. I did the same mistake back in 2020 with a hub rebranded that I paid 80 euros and after I saw that the charging power this hub is providing is capped at 70 watts, fired up AliExpress and like the movie “spoilers obviously” ::: spoiler spoiler Moon :::
I saw all the same products just for 10 euros or so. I ended up buying a dell docking station second hand for 50 euros that is doing what it promised to do and although might not be the best product but delivers enough power to my laptop.

Can confirm, such combined hubs have almost always a weak/cheap part that makes the whole thing useless on failing. That's why i now go with a single-job-per-component principle. Ethernet to USB-C adapter and HDMI to USB-C adapter on a hub for example.

Tell that to the brand new, pretty expensive laptop I recently got from work which has a whopping 1 USB-C port that also doubles as the charging port. In no way can I get a multifunctional adapter to charge and output DisplayPort or HDMI at the same time. I'm starting to dislike USB and the clusterfuck of incompatible or optional protocols it can carry.

Wow, really? I guess that unfortunately makes sense. I have a dock for my work laptop that charges and works for HDMI/etc but it uses an entire two USB-C ports at once.

What about a real usbc/thunderbolt Dockingstation of lenovo/hp/dell? These cost ~200€, though.

I could try that, but at the moment I've spent enough on adapters and docking stations.

Currently I have peripherals, network and charger connected to a docking station and just plug in HDMI directly into my laptop. Not ideal, I would have preferred everything over a single connector, but it is workable enough I guess.

As someone who enjoys a bit of practicality into everything...? I was tempted to buy one of those little tidbits for a "futureproof" feel onto everything I plugged the little bastards in.

Until I met the... kvm switch. It may not allow me to plug a billion different things into it... but damn. It really works.

I have 3 KVM switches, neither works with my CTRL keyboard neither with my gaming mouse. Sigh.

I'm thinking of building my own "dumb usb switch" as I have to plug, unplug all the time...

I bought a $200 USBC hub. It worked for a few months and then suddenly would do something to my laptop so that it would stop accepting a charge until the battery died completely and I restarted it.

Still works for my Steam Deck but largely a giant waste of money.

If you tell the support you use Linux, do they listen a bit better?

This is a Haiku install, but that's not import-
—
Haiku? It's an experimental OS that I... Oh never mind.

My thought was more like:

Mac? So probably a noob. Default Program.

Linux? Uh, okay, lets call second level support.

And dude sure knows how to use lower level tools.

I'm expecting something more like this:

Linux? Uh, okay, we don't support that. Bye!

draft - can we get a usbc community going on lemmy.world / lemmy like we have r/usbchardware (reddit.com/r/usbchardware) on reddit? thank you

I’ve use a CalDigit TS3 Plus on my MacBook Pro for a couple of years, it’s pretty reliable. There is a lot of noise over the headphone port though, so I don’t use that.

Not surprised to hear more people having this issue. I wanted a dock with usb 3 and usb c and a ports a few years back and was shocked at how few actually items were available. I tried a few that advertised as usb 3 but were obviously not. Not surprised to learn how much of a clusterfuck it was and still is.