Is it me or is everyone in hexbear insane?
I think a little clarification is needed. No. I don't actually think everyone there is insane. I don't care about the bans so stop trying to use that. HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point
Edit: Feel free to keep trying to brigade me. It's not going to scare me to take this down
"HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point"
Without taking any sides, saying some group is insane and then saying that them lashing back "proves your point" is beyond stupid.
Like, of course they will, what else do you expect them to do? Sit and politely agree?
We should stop with this kind of BS in any sort of debate. Groups will protect themselves, and will not get polite to those who throw slurs at them; that's natural, normal and speaks nothing about their average behavior.
This never proves any point and is nothing but a dirty rhetorical device aimed to shut your opposition up and make them seem irrelevant. This is not part of any possible healthy conversation.
Also, post is not a genuine question.
To be clear, this is coming from you getting banned for being a debate-pervert after you claimed Putin invaded Ukraine to "reinstate the USSR" as a secret Commie and refused to take a pro-Palestinian stance, equating Palestinian resistance with a century of settler-colonial genocide.
I think it's a bit terminally online to run away to a defederated instance to lick your wounds, rather than reflect on why being a debatebro is unhealthy.
The irony of being banned for being a “debatebro” in fucking hexbear of all places, where “debatebro” is just the zeitgeist.
Call it what it is, he like most others was banned for having differing beliefs than the chosen narrative there.
Please tell me what a debate bro is for the people who don't know the terminology
Someone who goes fishing for fights online.
Everyone knows Putin invaded Ukraine because he's a dumbass dictator who started to believe his own propaganda. It's the dictator trap. Putin surrounded himself with backstabbing yes men by literally killing anyone who wasn't.
As to Palestinian resistance. I don't think Hamas is a good resistance movement. For a whole host of reasons. Which is why the Israeli government has been propping them up since the 80s.
An unsympathetic resistance movement can do more to damage a cause than not having a movement at all.
From now until the ethnic cleansing is complete, Israel will call any resistance movement Hamas, regardless of their actual name or beliefs. I'm not sure how to fight that... I don't think anyone really knows beyond screaming the truth everywhere we can.
It didn't work in the 1920s in Europe. But maybe with the Internet... Likely not though.
I think the word you’re looking for is “equating.”
“Equivilating” is not a word.
“Equivocating” is, but it means to deceive without lying by creatively telling the truth, to seem you’re saying one thing while really saying something else. This is an art form if you play a lawful good face character and your DM says you aren’t allowed to lie.
Just woke up, corrected, haha. Thanks!
This is the real pro tip.
Thank god for hexbear and lemmygrad though. Imagine the effort needed to block them all individually if spread over all the other instances.
Yeah, it's actually helpful to have safe spaces for hateful assholes so they can be corralled away.
Its a safe space for them to be… away from me
On the other hand, an isolated community can also become a nasty brewing pot, reinforcing harmful behaviors and even intensifying them over time.
I don't think calling them safe spaces for hateful assholes is accurate, but I understand frustrations with them.
They still get loose and troll .world while the mods there give them free reign and ban you if you report them for trolling. You can't call them trolls, but they can call you a troll.
If you think yogthos isn't the main account of return2ozma you're gonna have a bad time.
fuck that guy.
Really? Damn that's crazy.
Before instance blocking was a thing I blocked individual trolls wheb I saw them and after about the fifth block I didn't see a lot of hexbear, so it they have a few very loud individuals but instance blocking hexbear really made my browsing a lot more chill
These pathetic foxes are pissed they've been neutralized by defederation. They're mad that the contagion has been contained. That real lefties, even communists don't take them seriously.
These guys aren't fooling anyone. The online left doesn't need their rotten discourse, and they don't belong there.
It's just 4chan cosplaying communism. Truly despicable.
I think HB and some of the other groups are mostly trolls or Russian, Chinese, Iranian, North Korean, or aligned operatives trying to gas up trolls or wannabe trolls.
There are definitely some well meaning Americans and others who get suckered into the bullshit tornado that is those sites. They are definitely worth saving if we can. But it's hard. They ban and block anyone with a dissenting voice no matter how calmly presented.
If you've heard of Chapo Trap House that's them. If not, most of those kids/idiots/trolls are the type of terminally online fake leftists that give other leftist a bad image in general. They were so ridiculous Reddit got tired of their shit and banned them a couple years back.
Hexbear is sort of like a village of eldritch abomination worshippers in a Lovecraftian horror story - isolated, insular, entirely wrapped up in their own esoteric rituals and ideas and language, and immediately and collectively hostile to outsiders.
Nope. They seem pretty sane and rational in comparison to places like Reddit, Lemmy.world, Twitter, 4chan, Facebook, etc.
You wrote reddit twice in a row.
Obviously you can't lump them all into one category, but the majority of them seem to be willing to cause chaos on other instances for a laugh. Doesn't sit right with me, so i blocked them
cause chaos for a laughspread harmful propaganda from violent dictators for moneyMany of them, yes. They're among the most radical of the leftist instances, which means that they attract a lot of propagandists and tankies. They have some perfectly reasonable people too, but you know, vocal minority. Its the main thing most people notice about those instances.
Many people block hexbear, Lemmy.ml, and lemmygrad for these reasons.
I have yet to see any reasonableness from hexbear.
Hell, I had a few members tell me that I was part of the evil capitalist elite because I had a job.
They brigade like annoying unwanted fleas that you cannot get rid of.
Definitely a joke, I'm having trouble imagining a person who could believe this in earnest, let alone enough to say it out loud. I'm even having trouble accepting that you can imagine that a person would say this with no sarcasm. No one actually believes that.
edit: just realized that maybe you're trying to be funny and I'm slow on the uptake
Yes.
You are correct. Do your mental health a favour and block that instance along with lemmygrad.
Problem is that blocking the instance doesn't block these clowns' comments on other instances, you have to do a lot of manual blocking.
Lemm.ee basically doesn't defederate anything. You should probably go to an instance that defederates those instances.
While I would prefer defederation in this case, I found being on an instance ran by competent admin small price to pay.
Basic mental health config for a non tankist user of Lemmy is to block hexbear, lemmygrad and lemmy.ml instances first. Then, any user from there that you will see calling nazis anyone who don't think like them.
I almost left Lemmy thinking it was a tankist shithole before understanding the pattern.
Then it gets back to the average former-Reddit techie activist, which is still pretty left.
Yes they are insane/extremists
I think anyone who's even remotely curious about hexbear should go make an account and just... Iunno, check it out? That's what i did and it ended up being my home away from home.
Their viewpoints are gonna be absolute whiplash for most people unaccustomed to speaking about world topics from a non-us-centric perspective, or who have only learned about what communism actually is from our (definitely not biased) general education.
Calling those viewpoints "crazy" is just a shortcut, a base dismissal of thought unworthy of critical thinkers.
If you take me up on this, go lurk a bit! They can't hurt you. If after awhile of lurking, you have a question (you will have questions) ask them from a position of curiosity that you're interested in their perspective instead of one there to "educate the commies" and you'll be just fine. Hell you don't ever have to engage in politics at all there, hexbear has as many shitposts as the other instances do
I recall i went to hexbear because sh.itjust.works was defedding and erryone was just so mad at them i had to see what the fuss was about. Im very glad i did
If you're saying I'm calling their viewpoints crazy, I'm not. I didn't get a view point besides I'm pig slop, a piece of shit, brainwashed by the empire (whatever the hell that means), stupid, a basement dweller, and today, I think they called me a pervert
So this post is because you're angry ya got dunked on? You can't just post liberal political opinions (that would do well in liberal spaces) and expect them to fly in a commie space...
Wait, i recognize you! Ive argued with you myself! You definitely don't approach hexbear with a perspective of learning something, and iirc you're not the most respectful of other opinions haha! You been banned a couple times and still ain't learned shit about shit. Should i pm you with those threads with explanations of what and where you went wrong? Id be ecstatic to teach you something today
Your mistake was posting in the dunk tank. That is literally a "vent" sub where they vent their frustrations against stupid US empire propaganda takes.
If you go there expecting reasonable treatment for your opinions, you misunderstood the assignment. That is a shitpost sub where only one side is right.
How do I know this? Because I went there once and got dunked on too! But that does not represent the entirety of hexbear. I think.
This is my exact same experience. I ask for someone to elaborate on their stance, get told (not accused, told) I'm trolling. Ask for explanation/definition of a concept, get called an idiot shitlib and told to read some theory. Ask for civility, get told I deserve abuse for "endorsing genocide". (By the way, I absolutely oppose the genocide in Gaza. But I'm a genocide supporter I guess because I won't flush my vote third party this November.)
Hexbear is a community that expects you to conform. Every time there is a post like this, someone comes out of the woodwork and says "They're nice people if you talk like them and agree with them on everything." It's cool that you're not getting abused, but abuse is coming from that space, whether or not it is happening to you.
It's a shame because I would like to hear the nuances of their viewpoints, but I can never get them to tell me what they are. Always complaining that nobody tries to understand, but dogpiling on anyone that asks questions. Then they pull up your report history and tell you "It's just a little dunking bro, stop being a snowflake" for not putting up with it.
Users of Hexbear, if you're reading these words, do better. Nobody is going to sympathize with your cause if you antagonize outsiders that want to learn more.
again youre misrepresenting. you got several well articulated lengthy explanations and dismissed them or didn't reply.
Those aren't good responses. The narrative of "poor Putin just had to invade Ukraine, don't you see?" is bollocks.
Their weird insistence that anyone that doesn't agree with them is a "lib" that needs "dunking on" is tiring. If you don't show full-throated support for authoritarian regimes that they happen to like, then you clearly support Israel and genocide. They need to mature a bit, and realize that the world isn't black and white, and it doesn't neatly fall into convenient categories that can be nicely labelled.
Except these replies are made to illustrate the viewpoints held by the commenters and not meant to be dunks. Rather obviously imo. Yet OP is claiming he only got called mean words and no one explained to them why they think what they think.
There absolutely were good faith explanations but OP didn't engage with any of them in kind but chose to keep replying to the dunks instead.
Do you have any examples of this? Since world is defederated from that instance, I only end up visiting it when people like you come in and talk about how absolutely crazy it is over there, so occasionally I'll take a curious peek. This time I see... a post about Indigenous rights, a post criticizing capitalism, a post dunking on musk, a post about FOSS... when do I start seeing the crazy?
Read the comments.
I don't mind communism. I do mind advocating for Russia, in a war where they are clearly the aggressor, and harassing then moving to harass the same left wing for not being as radical or as pro-russian and deluding themselves with false beliefs that they are alone and no one is left wing other than them
Totally agree with you. During the issue , there were some people that had a backhanded way of asking what i meant when I said that Russia had no reason to invade Ukraine. So I said that Putin was trying to get his glorious USSR back. I wasn't being literal, but the past 20 years shows that he has been trying to annex states that were previously under the USSR or at the very least keeping extremely close, controllable ties with them. I got ridiculed and belittled without further request of clarification. And I think it's because they aren't interested or they are under the Russian propaganda machine.
He also pretty much said as much during his initial ramblings during the invasion- that ukraine and other former Soviet states are rightfully a part of Russia.
But in their eyes, I'm the crazy, illiterate, stupid lib
And yaknow, I wouldn’t even mind being viewed that way. It’s the shitty moderation style I will mock endlessly.
Heavily scratched liberal gets banned from hexbear for being a debate pervert and trying to start fights, immediately proceeds to call everyone there mentally ill
What the fuck is a debate pervert? Yall are weird af to be following this dude over here and commenting on his posts and having your alt accounts or other weirdo friends upvote lol looks pathetic.
Constantly going back and forth on technicalities rather than actually discussing an issue. I admit I'm guilty of it from time to time, but after I get banned from a community or an instance I don't make a thread in a place where the people agree with me begging for validation.
I'm not banned from there and I agree with OP. Those people need serious help.
Edit: I mean they think Donald Trump is a liberal FFS. Donald Fucking Trump.
Dude...he used to be. Lol
I mean, yes. Donald Trump generally supports the free market, individualist ideology of Liberalism, and is extremely pro Capitalism.
Liberalism doesn't mean "left wing" or "center left."
Trump is also a far-right populist, but falls under the umbrella of liberalism.
Here's the thread in question btw. The mods left up OP's comments that had some semblance of effort.
OP claimed putler was trying to bring back the USSR or some shit here lmao. At least OP deleted it.
I love that without fail every single person in this thread defending hexbears is from ml with the same pronoun tag format every single hexbear seems to have
Almost like they're hexbear alts or something
I am not from ML nor do I have a Hexbear alt of any sort, but I defend Hexbear's right to be different. They seem to be a younger group of anti-capitalists so I find their perspectives interesting.
Edit: I am still somewhat new to Lemmy, so maybe there is some history with Hexbear that I am ignorant of, but until I see it for myself, I enjoy their content and will continue to support Hexbear.
Hexbear is a 4 year old community, it drastically predates the Reddit Exodus, and only started federating with other instances around 10 months ago. Those 3 years of self-sustainability created a unique culture that is at odds with the liberal instances on Lemmy, like Lemmy.world.
If you say something wrong about something they care about and you can't back it up, they're going to be rude to you.
The one dude I spoke that was decent and respectful asked for proof of the Uygher genocide, gave him proof, the proof wasn't good enough. Gave him more proof told me it still wasn't good enough. Figured it wasn't worth it anymore because he's denying everything I give him. Told him he has a movable goal post and peace be with him. Blocked the community and just found out today they banned me. There probably are people that willing to have a dialog, but the few are giving all a bad rep
Based on the link another user had to provide, you received a lengthy criticism of your logic and sources and then didn't handle it well.
Now you are here calling them crazy.
Do you have a link to that conversation? I'm interested in what your proof looked like.
Afraid not. I'm banned from that community now, but here are the links
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/15/china-is-committing-a-genocide-why-was-our-foreign-office-planning-to-meet-one-of-the-perpetrators
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2022/9/14/23351153/china-uyghur-muslim-genocide-xinjiang-united-nations
https://www.globalr2p.org/countries/china/
https://thediplomat.com/2024/04/erasing-memories-concealing-evidence-chinas-efforts-to-obscure-the-uyghur-genocide/
https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/chinese-genocide-of-uyghurs-in-xinjiang-continues
https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/19/break-their-lineage-break-their-roots/chinas-crimes-against-humanity-targeting
https://ieres.elliott.gwu.edu/project/chinas-genocide-against-uyghurs/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/03/20/uyghur-genocide-nury-turkel-interview-commissioner-religious-freedom-china-beijing/
I found the thread and you had several people read your links and go through them in detail. Most of what they're claiming is traced back to crackpot Adrian Zenz.
As I said, if you go there and say wrong things and then can't back them up, they're going to be rude to you. Citing Adrian Zenz is one form of not being able to back up your claims.
I wouldn't know I blocked it immediately.
And nothing of value was lost to the HexBear instance.
You guys are somewhat still mad that the censorship of defederation has cut you off from an influx of newcomers to influence. And your tears are absolutely delicious.
Yeah, you can always count on them to brigade.
Yeah. They've been downvote bombing me since yesterday. And they were telling me I'm the one that needs to go back to reddit lol
containment instance
What do you mean by that?
On 4chan people refer to "containment" boards for topics that are racist, inflammatory, or regularly derail conversations (ex. pol, b, mlp). That way the people who want that aren't always polluting boards where people just want to talk about (for example) food or technology.
So I was half joking that hexbear is like a containment board. It isn't quite the same, but since other Lemmy instances can block hexbear all at once it has the same effect.
That's an understandable explanation. I've never been to 4chan because a person who attended it told me he would kick my 2 year old niece in the face and told me that's a common belief there. Not flaunting, but I told him that no one would ever find his body if he did that.
So I avoided 4chan because my crazy would probably cause conflict with their crazy
Edit: this was in person btw
Congratulations OP, this post made it to Hexbear! 🎉
Haha. I didn't know they liked so much. Can you highlight some good comments for me?
It's not just you. Like many people that get sucked into cults, you don't want to directly engage with them. Just nicely encourage them to deprogram themselves, and focus on maturing and becoming an adult. They really don't like get called out like that, based on my interactions with them.
yes why would people get upset that you're being condescending and calling them either brainwashed or a child? one of the biggest remaining mysteries in the world really
That's right folks, remember not to engage with any opposing ideology in an honest or intellectually rigorous manner! If someone is critical of your beliefs, it is important to simply ignore them and never seriously consider either of your positions.
It has nothing to do with "opposing ideologies", it is how you are behaving like toxic assholes 100% of the time.
Typical lemmy.ml comment, trying to make hexbears seem reasonable when they are definitely arguing in bad faith.
We don't have to feed trolls. You can't make us either.
I was going to block them and lemmygrad at first but decided not to and instead tried to understand what all these people were about.
Now I'm a communist, have a hammer and sickle, live in China, and my favorite color is red. Death to America comrades! Get fucked libs /s
Seriously though, they're not anymore insane than us. Maybe just a bunch of drunken commies at a bar who don't really bother to distance themselves from the subjects of a century of red scare propaganda. In any case, it's worth keeping an open mind and engaging in good faith.
Though as leftist as I personally am and have become in time, I'm not going to call anyone comrade or start using hammer and sickle imagery except in the context of history lol. Libs can still get fucked though.
I was bullied for off Lemmy.One by the hexbear mods who sent hexbear users my way to harass me...
All for (while I'm still a raging communist) not being a pro authoritarian communist.
Harassed how? Do you have a link?
That's kind of just socialism then.
Edit. Misread op comment.
My experience is that people in lemmy.world are intolerant bigots.
Damn it's nice to see the comments are surprisingly evenly split between hating on it and actually being reasonable. Quite a difference from when redditors first moved in here last year.
I guess the more people talk about it, the more people actually visit it for themselves and form their own opinions.
Nah, it is just a lot of hexbear alt accounts like yourself on your disingenously labeled "reasonable" side.
Not all. People over-generalize to forget that Lemmy.ml (and lately more people from Midwest.social) have always blended the experiences, being able to post to both "sides" like hexbear.net and lemmy.world that are defederated from one another.
And lemm.ee too though iirc they consider themselves more truly neutral than leftists?
And some alts too ofc:-).
I'm a lefty but I didn't know which instances leaned which way when I got here. I chose lemm.ee because their defed policy itself was neutral and that appealed to me because I can do my own damn blocking thank you.
You can now... and if you were willing to go individually account-by-account, then you always could. I'm glad you found your niche - it's nice to widen your worldview and listen to it all, sometimes:-).
Though I'm on the other end of the spectrum: having spent nearly a decade listening to people's oddball takes on everything under the sun, and bending over backwards to accommodate it all as if it had some semblance of validity, I now find myself wanting to substantially narrow my input stream. Ngl, reading and watching/listening to - and more importantly thinking deeply about - such things as Innuendo Studios' The Alt Right Playbook, and the actual Trump presidency that caused our current inflation crisis and oh yeah killed more people than all wars combined iirc, really changed my approach on giving such viewpoints the time of day. There's a difference between sounding smart (like screetching: "show me your source material, bitch!", while also looking down on the recipient in every way), vs. actually being thus, imho.
However, if you want to keep your finger on the pulse of many sides regarding a particular matter, then I'm so glad that the federated servers allow us each to experience such a diversity of goals, even on the same platform! 😄
Every single person I've seen defending it has been a lemmy.ml user which from my understanding is not too dissimilar from hexbears
I first was introduced to hex by a similar post, idk the community, and my first reaction was, "holy shit it, those people are toxic!” maybe it was a complaint about the dunktank. Since then, I've come to recognize how intelligent and sane they actually are.
Abuse begets abuse, and the cycle continues. I do hope my own instance hasn't defederated. I've learned so much, incrementally, and developed a particular fondness for some users. I do feel enriched for them and ml having educated me patiently and kindly. I see them as older siblings who are human, like me. In fact, I'd say there are some I adore. Not hero worship, because that sets is up for disappointment or cult of personality. Just a particular fondness.
Don't misunderstand, and I wish I knew the OPs tag, but they gave info to research and I quickly adjusted my knowledge to fill in some blanks, but the majority of people were just on the attack. Maybe they needed to vent some stress, which is fine, but there was only less than a handful of people that were giving me a chance. I'd love to discuss opposing views, but if the majority is going to belittle and ridicule me, I'm going to respond in equivalence. Call it pride, but no one person should be treated like that and be convinced to hear an opposing view. It just does not work
With all respect friend, the error had been linked in this thread and explained multiple times. You'll see it when and if you're ready to see it, I suppose. Wishing you the best. Ciao.
They're not insane, they're just victims of tribal thinking like the rest of us. Very narrow worldview reinforced by the others around them, bashing outsiders, thinking "they" are smarter than everyone else. Mostly, they see themselves as good and everyone else as bad, which isn't very unique among humans either. I don't think hexbear is worse than anywhere else.
You're doing the same right now probably.
Honestly my only issue with them is literally anyone who is not them is "an evil pro-genocide lib" (lib, liberal is like the biggest insult they can throw at you as it's essentially the definition of their opposition.) Doesn't exactly feel great to see an entire community see you as the absolute evil and everything that is wrong with the world just because you may not agree that an economy run by committee is the best way, or that an authoritarian "vanguard" is the right way to a better society.
If they're all about workers solidarity and community then they should try to see us if anything as simply "ignorant" not stupid, not willingly aiding genocide, just lacking information that they could help share. Instead a lot of them are just vicious. There are some like Cowbee that seem like good people who want to help others understand their views.