Tangentially related rant: We had a new contributor open up a pull request today and I gave their changes an initial look to make sure no malicious code is included.
I couldn't see anything wrong with it. The PR was certainly a bit short, but the task they tackled was pretty much a matter of either it works or it doesn't. And I figured, if they open a PR, they'll have a working solution.
...well, I tell the CI/CD runner to get going and it immediately runs into a compile error. Not an exotic compile error, the person who submitted the PR had never even tried to compile it.
Then it dawned on me. They had included a link to a GitHub Copilot workspace, supposedly just for context.
In reality, they had asked the dumbass LLM to do the change described in the ticket and figured, it would produce a working PR right off the bat. No need to even check it, just let the maintainer do the validation.
In an attempt to give them constructive feedback, I tried to figure out, if this GitHub Copilot workspace thingamabob had a Compile-button that they just forgot to click, so I actually watched Microsoft's ad video for it.
And sure enough, I saw right then and there, who really was at fault for this abomination of a PR.
The ad showed exactly that. Just chat a bit with the LLM and then directly create a PR. Which, yes, there is a theoretical chance of this possibly making sense, like when rewording the documentation. But for any actual code changes? Fuck no.
So, most sincerely: Fuck you, Microsoft.
Surely you have to blame the idiot human here who actually has the ability to reason (in theory)
You think the decision to build this bot like that was not made by a human? Its idiot humans all the way down.
Of course but people selling/offering shitty tool options is not only expected, it's guaranteed. I certainly do not understand this tendency to blame the machine or makers of the machine and excuse the moronic developer
Nono i agree with you, people like that cant be trusted with tying their shoes.
I just wanted to point out that the system is the way it is because of "idiot human here who actually has the ability to reason"
The person who uses the shitty tool is a moron. The person who makes the shitty tool is an asshole. At least in this case where the shitty tool is actively promoting shitty PRs.
Responsibility is shared. It's not one or the other.
Many people don't know what they're doing. That's kind of expected. But a tool provider and seller should know what they're doing. Enabling people to behave in a negative way should be questioned. Maybe it's a consequence of enablement, or maybe it's bad design or marketing. Where criticism is certainly warranted.
Yes the only people ever to blame are everyone but the people who actually did a thing. That's the same reason voters aren't responsible for trump, Democrats are. /s
Well, for reasons, I happen to know that this person is a student, who has effectively no experience dealing with real-world codebases.
It's possible that the LLM produced good results for the small codebases and well-known exercises that they had to deal with so far.
I'm also guessing, they're learning what a PR is for the first time just now. And then being taught by Microsoft that you can just fire off PRs without a care in the world, like, yeah, how should they know any better?
ultimately the people responsible are the ones giving people tools that can be misused, you don't hand a gun to a child.
dude. i feel that pain.
i got a dev fired because they absolutely refused to test their changes before submitting.
I'm not talking once or twice either. at least a year of that bullshit. i had to show my boss how many hours of wasted time it was taking me because I look at the code first, like literally anybody. Eventually boss pipd them and fired them but holy fuck i wanted to kick that douche in the groin every time i saw a pr with their name on it.
next place I work I'm insisting on a build step success to assign a pr.
Lmao, what, that's wild. How did they justify this??
"it works on my machine."
It's funny that that's the answer that they always gave, considering there were times that we had screen shares, and I asked them to walk me through how they actually got it to work.
When they attempted to try to run it, unsurprisingly it broke.
There were even a few times that I didn't even review it and the first step I took was to inform them that it wouldn't run. Also, unsurprisingly, I was right.
Management at the time was driven by product development and delivery of "high-value" features. As long as deliverables were delivered, this dev could do anything they wanted to. At the end of a year, I'd lost about four weeks of productivity. That doesn't even cover the hours of after work time that I spent on trying to fix their fuckups.
Needless to say, I stopped doing that. I used to be a nice guy to work with, but now... Let's just say if you can't do the work, I'm not covering for you. If your PR doesn't get merged because it's broken and you can't fix it and you spend six weeks trying to fix it, that's on you.
Oof.
My employer pays a buttload of money to CircleCI - for extensive checks (build, lint, formatting, full test suite, as well as custom scripts for translation converage, docs,... for the full tech stack) on every push. Reviews start only when everything passes.
I think you have given me a new-found appreciation for the reasoning behind that decision... 😄
Commit with Co-authored-by: Copilot
or maybe better --author=Copilot
It would certainly help evaluate submissions to have that context
We will never solve the Scunthorpe Problem.
It's a clbuttic
Truly in a clbottom of its own
Hasn't it been proven unsolvable?
Impossible. There is always some mf named like cum-sock, smh
Proven? I don't think so. I don't think there's a way to devise a formal proof around it. But there's a lot of evidence that, even if it's technically solvable, we're nowhere close.
Have you tried adding a few more kilobytes of regex?
Or a few more gb of LLM?
I swear, I just need 4-5 more graphics cards to solve this!
I mean, you could just use a vaguely smarter filter. A tiny "L"LM might have different problems, but not this one.
So a TLM?
Awww, it's trying its best!
TJA suggests a TLM.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Indeed; it definitely would show some promise. At that point, you'd run into the problem of needing to continually update its weighting and models to account for evolving language, but that's probably not a completely unsolvable problem.
So maybe "never" is an exaggeration. As currently expressed, though, I think I can probably stand by my assertion.
there's a very trivial solution that always works actually, it's called "stop being a prude"
It causes so much dawizard.
I had a Pycharm linter with "inconsiderate writing list" flag my use of "bi" as inappropriate, recommending to use "bisexual" instead. In my data job, BI, means business intelligence, it's everywhere.
Gotta love Microsoft Power Bisexual
I now identify as a Power Bisexual.
Power top or bottom?
365
"I'm a power bisexual 365."
That works.
How is that inconsiderate? That's just informal
(Using "bi" to mean "bisexual", I mean, not "business intelligence" lol)
No, it's right.
Business intelligence is inconsiderate and must be stopped!
Fully agreed! And while we're at it, get rid of Power Pivot!
I think it's probably because it is informal or maybe ambiguous.
I'm confused how bi is inappropriate
Huh, I’ve only heard business logic before.
Business intelligence is in the context of analytics. It means something very different from "business logic", in case you're thinking they're synonyms...
The problem was named after an incident in 1996 in which AOL's profanity filter prevented residents of the town of Scunthorpe, North Lincolnshire, England, from creating accounts with AOL, because the town's name contains the substring "cunt".
haha
Similar vibe:
Google: kill child process
FBI: ಠ_ಠ
Google: kill child process linux console
FBI:（︶︿︶)
It’s a clbuttic mistake.
I've been tempted to create a bot that does nothing but search comments in code for misspelled words and create pull requests for them.
If it stays in comments, little chance in breaking a working codebase and I'd have an insane amount of commits and contributions to a wide variety of codebases for my resume.
I'll never be a top tier coder. But I might make management.
In case that wasn’t satire, please don’t 🥲
A small typo in a comment is not a big issue, and even if the PR is straightforward, a maintainer still has to take some time reviewing it, which takes time away from fixing actual bugs 😢
But think of the gains!
Simple changes require only simple reviews.
A better use of your time is to improve documentation. Developers generally hate documentation so it's often in need of improvement. Rewrite confusing sentences. Add tutorials that are missing. Things like that. You don't necessarily have to be a good developer or even understand the code of the project; you just have to have some knowledge of the project as an end user.
I have nominated you to the who's who in america award
I am in doubt. That wouldn't even compile. But who am I to think somebody changing something like this would actually do a test compilation afterwards....
HTML isn't compiled, and unknown attributes are allowed. The best practice is to prefix non-standard attributes with data- (e.g. <div>) but nothing enforces that. Custom attributes can be retrieved in JavaScript or targeted in CSS rules. </div>
clbottomt when the chtopt shows up [imagine this as that popular GIF meme]
What is a 'charset' in this depraved persons mind? A corset? Must be a mighty kinky corset.
It's replacing all instances of arse and ass with bottom...but doing so in about the most naïve way possible.
Aah yeah, thanks!
Someone needs to learn regular expressions.
Nah too many false negatives. Vulgar language must be wholly extinguished
It's got an arse in there
It's time for chbottomt and clbottom to finally become valid HTML statements.
Or just have some random subset of browsers support them for some reason and other browsers not so much. It’s the html way.
Fucking Scunthorpes!
OMG this took me way too long to get. They replace the substring "ass" 😭😭
and "arse", as seen in charset
Ok, how is "charset" vulgar?
Edit: got it; arse
got it; arse
It would certainly be an issue if you didn't have one
The ol' master/ slave configuration again....
those are terms, this is substrings within words
I haven't seen branches or variables being called arse
Then again, I do like to catch exceptions as up so I can throw up
At least for that we have replacement names that make sense (like primary and secondary or replica).
Luckily the feck attribute is too obscure to be in the line of fire.
I have a friend that works at Salesforce, he told me that they made him change the name of some classes that used the term Blacklist because of inclusivity
My previous workplace did the same thing around 2020 with the words whitelist and blacklist and some other words.
It was around the same time when there was news about GitHub moving from master to main/mainline as the default Git branch.
This kind of thing is infuriating. Especially when the actual etymology of "blacklist" is a 17th century play where a list of nobles scheming against the British monarchy is described as a blacklist.
But the word black is used so clearly it's racist, right? How can we be woke if we don't randomly ban words because of their alternate meanings?
Must be a TikTok influencer
anal-ytics
holytics
The w*ke agenda ...
weke? It's the Internet, you can say weke
they mean the wake agenda, all these boats disturbing the water's surface are going to bring an end to society
Thanks that you allowe it but I'm not so sure about the m*ds
Wow they really went into their stupid useless plan in the most ham-fisted way
Tangentially related rant: We had a new contributor open up a pull request today and I gave their changes an initial look to make sure no malicious code is included.
I couldn't see anything wrong with it. The PR was certainly a bit short, but the task they tackled was pretty much a matter of either it works or it doesn't. And I figured, if they open a PR, they'll have a working solution.
...well, I tell the CI/CD runner to get going and it immediately runs into a compile error. Not an exotic compile error, the person who submitted the PR had never even tried to compile it.
Then it dawned on me. They had included a link to a GitHub Copilot workspace, supposedly just for context.
In reality, they had asked the dumbass LLM to do the change described in the ticket and figured, it would produce a working PR right off the bat. No need to even check it, just let the maintainer do the validation.
In an attempt to give them constructive feedback, I tried to figure out, if this GitHub Copilot workspace thingamabob had a Compile-button that they just forgot to click, so I actually watched Microsoft's ad video for it.
And sure enough, I saw right then and there, who really was at fault for this abomination of a PR.
The ad showed exactly that. Just chat a bit with the LLM and then directly create a PR. Which, yes, there is a theoretical chance of this possibly making sense, like when rewording the documentation. But for any actual code changes? Fuck no.
So, most sincerely: Fuck you, Microsoft.
Surely you have to blame the idiot human here who actually has the ability to reason (in theory)
You think the decision to build this bot like that was not made by a human? Its idiot humans all the way down.
Of course but people selling/offering shitty tool options is not only expected, it's guaranteed. I certainly do not understand this tendency to blame the machine or makers of the machine and excuse the moronic developer
Nono i agree with you, people like that cant be trusted with tying their shoes.
I just wanted to point out that the system is the way it is because of "idiot human here who actually has the ability to reason"
The person who uses the shitty tool is a moron. The person who makes the shitty tool is an asshole. At least in this case where the shitty tool is actively promoting shitty PRs.
Responsibility is shared. It's not one or the other.
Many people don't know what they're doing. That's kind of expected. But a tool provider and seller should know what they're doing. Enabling people to behave in a negative way should be questioned. Maybe it's a consequence of enablement, or maybe it's bad design or marketing. Where criticism is certainly warranted.
Yes the only people ever to blame are everyone but the people who actually did a thing. That's the same reason voters aren't responsible for trump, Democrats are. /s
Well, for reasons, I happen to know that this person is a student, who has effectively no experience dealing with real-world codebases.
It's possible that the LLM produced good results for the small codebases and well-known exercises that they had to deal with so far.
I'm also guessing, they're learning what a PR is for the first time just now. And then being taught by Microsoft that you can just fire off PRs without a care in the world, like, yeah, how should they know any better?
ultimately the people responsible are the ones giving people tools that can be misused, you don't hand a gun to a child.
dude. i feel that pain.
i got a dev fired because they absolutely refused to test their changes before submitting.
I'm not talking once or twice either. at least a year of that bullshit. i had to show my boss how many hours of wasted time it was taking me because I look at the code first, like literally anybody. Eventually boss pipd them and fired them but holy fuck i wanted to kick that douche in the groin every time i saw a pr with their name on it.
next place I work I'm insisting on a build step success to assign a pr.
Lmao, what, that's wild. How did they justify this??
"it works on my machine."
It's funny that that's the answer that they always gave, considering there were times that we had screen shares, and I asked them to walk me through how they actually got it to work.
When they attempted to try to run it, unsurprisingly it broke.
There were even a few times that I didn't even review it and the first step I took was to inform them that it wouldn't run. Also, unsurprisingly, I was right.
Management at the time was driven by product development and delivery of "high-value" features. As long as deliverables were delivered, this dev could do anything they wanted to. At the end of a year, I'd lost about four weeks of productivity. That doesn't even cover the hours of after work time that I spent on trying to fix their fuckups.
Needless to say, I stopped doing that. I used to be a nice guy to work with, but now... Let's just say if you can't do the work, I'm not covering for you. If your PR doesn't get merged because it's broken and you can't fix it and you spend six weeks trying to fix it, that's on you.
Oof.
My employer pays a buttload of money to CircleCI - for extensive checks (build, lint, formatting, full test suite, as well as custom scripts for translation converage, docs,... for the full tech stack) on every push. Reviews start only when everything passes.
I think you have given me a new-found appreciation for the reasoning behind that decision... 😄
Commit with
Co-authored-by: Copilotor maybe better
--author=CopilotIt would certainly help evaluate submissions to have that context
We will never solve the Scunthorpe Problem.
It's a clbuttic
Truly in a clbottom of its own
Hasn't it been proven unsolvable?
Impossible. There is always some mf named like cum-sock, smh
Excuse me? My family BUILT this country!
Or Grab-her.
Proven? I don't think so. I don't think there's a way to devise a formal proof around it. But there's a lot of evidence that, even if it's technically solvable, we're nowhere close.
Have you tried adding a few more kilobytes of regex?
Or a few more gb of LLM?
I swear, I just need 4-5 more graphics cards to solve this!
I mean, you could just use a vaguely smarter filter. A tiny "L"LM might have different problems, but not this one.
So a TLM?
Awww, it's trying its best!
TJA suggests a TLM.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Indeed; it definitely would show some promise. At that point, you'd run into the problem of needing to continually update its weighting and models to account for evolving language, but that's probably not a completely unsolvable problem.
So maybe "never" is an exaggeration. As currently expressed, though, I think I can probably stand by my assertion.
If only one could buttassinate censorship...
Don't you mean buttbuttinate?
bottombottominateFTFY
I have no rebottomal for this comment.
there's a very trivial solution that always works actually, it's called "stop being a prude"
It causes so much dawizard.
I had a Pycharm linter with "inconsiderate writing list" flag my use of "bi" as inappropriate, recommending to use "bisexual" instead. In my data job, BI, means business intelligence, it's everywhere.
Gotta love Microsoft Power Bisexual
I now identify as a Power Bisexual.
Power top or bottom?
365
"I'm a power bisexual 365."
That works.
How is that inconsiderate? That's just informal
(Using "bi" to mean "bisexual", I mean, not "business intelligence" lol)
No, it's right.
Business intelligence is inconsiderate and must be stopped!
Fully agreed! And while we're at it, get rid of Power Pivot!
I think it's probably because it is informal or maybe ambiguous.
I'm confused how bi is inappropriate
Huh, I’ve only heard business logic before.
Business intelligence is in the context of analytics. It means something very different from "business logic", in case you're thinking they're synonyms...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_intelligence
Holy shit, 10,000 commits because each change was individual (I'm assuming automated).
https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/pull/29798
Those commit messages though 🤣
They automated randomization of the commit messages? Wtf?
Gotta appreciate the level of commitment on this commit...
oh god
yeah, no. haha
And they're all with different commit message:
And so on..
wtf it was real?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scunthorpe_problem
haha
Similar vibe:
Google: kill child process
FBI: ಠ_ಠ
Google: kill child process linux console
FBI:（︶︿︶)
It’s a clbuttic mistake.
I've been tempted to create a bot that does nothing but search comments in code for misspelled words and create pull requests for them.
If it stays in comments, little chance in breaking a working codebase and I'd have an insane amount of commits and contributions to a wide variety of codebases for my resume.
I'll never be a top tier coder. But I might make management.
In case that wasn’t satire, please don’t 🥲 A small typo in a comment is not a big issue, and even if the PR is straightforward, a maintainer still has to take some time reviewing it, which takes time away from fixing actual bugs 😢
But think of the gains!
Simple changes require only simple reviews.
A better use of your time is to improve documentation. Developers generally hate documentation so it's often in need of improvement. Rewrite confusing sentences. Add tutorials that are missing. Things like that. You don't necessarily have to be a good developer or even understand the code of the project; you just have to have some knowledge of the project as an end user.
I have nominated you to the who's who in america award
I am in doubt. That wouldn't even compile. But who am I to think somebody changing something like this would actually do a test compilation afterwards....
HTML isn't compiled, and unknown attributes are allowed. The best practice is to prefix non-standard attributes with
data-(e.g.<div>) but nothing enforces that. Custom attributes can be retrieved in JavaScript or targeted in CSS rules. </div>clbottomt when the chtopt shows up [imagine this as that popular GIF meme]
What is a 'charset' in this depraved persons mind? A corset? Must be a mighty kinky corset.
It's replacing all instances of arse and ass with bottom...but doing so in about the most naïve way possible.
Aah yeah, thanks!
Someone needs to learn regular expressions.
Nah too many false negatives. Vulgar language must be wholly extinguished
It's got an arse in there
It's time for chbottomt and clbottom to finally become valid HTML statements.
Or just have some random subset of browsers support them for some reason and other browsers not so much. It’s the html way.
Fucking Scunthorpes!
OMG this took me way too long to get. They replace the substring "ass" 😭😭
and "arse", as seen in charset
Ok, how is "charset" vulgar?
Edit: got it; arse
It would certainly be an issue if you didn't have one
The ol' master/ slave configuration again....
those are terms, this is substrings within words
I haven't seen branches or variables being called
arseThen again, I do like to catch exceptions as
upso I canthrow upAt least for that we have replacement names that make sense (like primary and secondary or replica).
Luckily the feck attribute is too obscure to be in the line of fire.
I have a friend that works at Salesforce, he told me that they made him change the name of some classes that used the term Blacklist because of inclusivity
My previous workplace did the same thing around 2020 with the words whitelist and blacklist and some other words.
It was around the same time when there was news about GitHub moving from master to main/mainline as the default Git branch.
This kind of thing is infuriating. Especially when the actual etymology of "blacklist" is a 17th century play where a list of nobles scheming against the British monarchy is described as a blacklist.
But the word black is used so clearly it's racist, right? How can we be woke if we don't randomly ban words because of their alternate meanings?
Must be a TikTok influencer
anal-ytics
holytics
The w*ke agenda ...
weke? It's the Internet, you can say weke
they mean the wake agenda, all these boats disturbing the water's surface are going to bring an end to society
Thanks that you allowe it but I'm not so sure about the m*ds
Wow they really went into their stupid useless plan in the most ham-fisted way
When you give the task to an intern-to-be.
“censorship” yeah no