Trump tells Georgia witness not to testify
Former President Trump on Monday appeared to warn former Georgia lieutenant governor Geoff Duncan against testifying before the Fulton County grand jury in the state's 2020 election probe.
Driving the news: "I am reading reports that failed former Lt. Governor of Georgia, Jeff Duncan, will be testifying before the Fulton County Grand Jury," Trump wrote on his Truth Social account on Monday.
- "He shouldn't. I barely know him but he was, right from the beginning of this Witch Hunt, a nasty disaster for those looking into the Election Fraud that took place in Georgia."
- Duncan, who criticized Trump's false election fraud claims in 2020, said Saturday that he had been told to appear Tuesday before the Fulton County grand jury.
- "Republicans should never let honesty be mistaken for weakness," he wrote in a post on X.
What's next: Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis appears poised to issue a charging decision on Trump's alleged efforts to subvert election results.
The big picture: Trump's Monday Truth Social post comes days after the judge overseeing a separate trial — the federal probe into his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election — warned against making "inflammatory statements" that could intimidate witnesses in that trial.
- U.S. District Judge Tanya S. Chutkan said during a Friday hearing that any appearance of witness tampering would increase the need for a speedy trial.
- Trump already faces three criminal trials: In D.C. over efforts to overturn the 2020 election, in Florida over his retention of classified documents and in New York over an alleged hush money payment.
This is him attempting to call the judge’s bluff. Following the order, he also posted calling the judge biased. He’s exploring to see if the judge will let him get away with it. He’ll slowly ramp up the posts until the judge tells him to cut it out again, and then he’ll know where the line is. At that point, he’ll simply toe the line and cry “but it wasn’t a problem before” if she tries to cut down on it later.
He believes the judge is afraid to hold him in contempt, and thus far he has been correct. But this is a direct violation of the judge’s order, and the judge shouldn’t let it slide. If she treats this with leniency, he’ll only take it as tacit approval and continue getting more inflammatory. The only reason I can see for the judge allowing it to continue is to give him more rope to hang himself with. One violation of the order is bad, but if she lets it continue and he racks up a bunch of evidence, she may have better justification to hold him and expedite the trial.
Different case. (Can we pause for a moment to recognize how bonkers it is that a former president has so many criminal cases either in process or pending that it's getting hard to keep track?)
The judge who ordered him not to engage in any witness tampering is overseeing the federal case against him for trying to overturn the election in 2020. In this particular instance, he appears to have threatened a witness in the Fulton County, Georgia case, for which an indictment is expected soon.
Would it make a difference? Threatening a witness in one trial when you have several others ongoing and in such a public fashion would have a chilling effect on witness testimony for all trails, or so I would think.
It might. I'm no lawyer, but it's conceivable that the order will be interpreted as targeted specifically to witnesses in the federal trial.
That said, threatening people is illegal all on its own, so who knows...
@kescusay @there1snospoon
20 Year Maximum in Federal Prison for making a social media post. Only TFG would do something so stupid.
https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1729-protection-government-processes-tampering-victims-witnesses-or#:\~:text=Section%201512%20of%20Title%2018,a%20witness%2C%20victim%20or%20informant.
I was testing mastodon with this post. Success.
Not necessarily. If it's just a political threat, that's fine. And like a lot of what Trump says, this is just borderline enough to not explicitly threaten physical violence to the point of criminality. It really needs the witness tampering to become criminal. If he says that he will cause political consequences if Jeff Duncan testifies, that would let the prosecution slap witness tampering on to the rest of the case. Hell, he could be convicted on that alone.
That charge is already on the docket.
Right, my point was that his threats were not criminal due to being political threats alone, but due to being associated with testifying.
I hate to say it, but Trump is correct: he could literally murder the judge in this (or any) case on live TV and get away with it. why? because they let him. they refuse to hold him accountable for anything, and that’s why he keeps doing this shit— and getting away with it.
the problem is: HE NEVER GETS HUNG WITH THE ROPE. he just gets away with everything, time and time again. fines are meaningless to him because he just gets his idiot supporters to pay for it.
And lets stop pretending that any level of discourse is going to reach the remaining trump cult, we could literally have a video of him raping their mothers and they would still vote for him, so its time to give up on those people they are never coming back no matter how much evidence we have or how many charges there are.
They would. They would call the video 'fake news' and find it easier to assume their mother was lying than admit their false prophet is capable of any wrongdoing. They've built their entire identities around their unwavering confirmation bias. The vast majority of people who ever successfully disconnect from a cult do so only posthumously.
Its worse that that, they would consider it an honor that trump chose to rape the women in their family. Its koolaide time and we all know its coming
MAGA cultists: Our moms should be honored that Trump likes them!
Also MAGA cultists: Dems caused our moms to get raped!
And of course trump is sooo incredible STUpid that he doesnt know how to use the phrase, 'one more than we need' instead he says 'one more than we have', which insinuates that he has only 11779 votes to begin with!!! GAWD HES SO DUMB!!!
And if they had given him 11780 votes for some reason, he would then be 1 vote ahead of Biden in that race which would have triggered and automatic recount. Man if your going to ask people find votes for you, ASK FOR LIKE 20,000 IDIOT!!!
This user election frauds
I believe under U.S. Law they have to arrest him again and post no bail. This is a blatant disregard for the law. To not act is an injustice to the history of common law going back 800+ years.
I can’t even tell if you’re joking. that’s how much of a shitshow joke our justice system has become.
Not joking, it goes back to the Magna Carta and the origins of common law. In fact it is Clause 39 of the Great Charter of June 1215 CE and a case before Pope Innocent III and ordeals of fire and water. It's interesting but it is the origin of jury trials and witness tampering laws.
Ok but the Magna Carta isn't really a thing over here, and I'm sure the common law precedents for witness/jury tampering have been superceded by new legislation.
great. now I’m sad.
well, more sad.
He could walk into court fully erect shouting "Yes! I did it motherfuckers, I am guilty, I am death!" and the judge would still let him roll up in her crib, take a shit, dress up like Santa and take pictures with her kids.
its Jesse "He can't keep getting away with this!" but in real life
This is for the Georgia case which hasn't gone to a judge yet, he's just trying to get ahead of things before he gets a gag order here too... which this will be used as evidence for...
But you're right, there's enough going on that it's hard to tell the players without a program, so I made this:
This seemed to be popular information when I posted it (ahem) "elsewhere". Thought it might be welcome to have here.
If you're trying to keep track of where we're at in the Trump prosecutions:
Updated 8/10/2023
Washington, D.C. - 4 felonies, January 6th Election Interference
Investigation
Indictment
Arrest <- You Are Here
(DOJ lawyer Jack Smith has requested a trial date of 1/2/2024, Trump lawyers have yet to supply a counter date. The judge will announce a final date on 8/28)
Trial
Conviction
Sentencing
Georgia - Election Interference
Investigation <- You Are Here
2 new grand juries impaneled 7/11/2023.
Indictment - July 11th to September 1st.
(Grand Jury work expected July 31 to Aug. 18)
(Streets around the Fulton County courthouse will be closed from 8/7 to 8/18.)
Arrest
Trial
Conviction
Sentencing
New York State - 34 felonies, Stormy Daniels Payoff
Investigation
Indictment
Arrest <- You Are Here
Trial - March 25th, 2024
Conviction
Sentencing
Florida - 40 felonies, Federal documents charges
Investigation
Indictment
Original indictment was for 37 felonies.
3 new felonies were added on July 27, 2023.
Arrest <- You Are Here
Trial - May 20, 2024
Conviction
Sentencing
Other grand juries, such as for the documents at Bedminster, have not been announced.
The E. Jean Carroll trial for sexual assault and defamation where Trump was found liable and ordered to pay $5 million before immediately defaming her again resulting in a demand for $10 million is not listed as it's a civil case and not a crimimal one.
2 more indictments and he gets a free sub.
One prison term and he gets free footlongs for life. 😯
I appreciate you.
I don't know that I'd attribute any actual strategy to this.
I think that's a mistake that everyone had made about Trump from the beginning.
"Oh, he's a marketing genius!"
Why? Because he put his name on everything? Maybe there's a simple explanation: he's a raging narcissist who likes putting his name on everything. The fact that his name is synonymous with being the top, or besting something is just his sheer dumb luck.
The fact is, every single thing he's ever done can be explained as being an expression of his narcissism and impulse control problems, combined with the fact that he faces zero consequences for his behavior no matter how awful.
So, no, I don't think he was testing the judge. I think he was just mindlessly attacking anyone who is a threat to him like he has always done in every situation.
His grandfather changed the family name from Drumpf to Trump, so his family chose to name themselves as 'on top' intentionally. He just inherited the narcissism.
It's sad, really because if ever there was a person to match the sound "Drumpf", it's that sack of shit.
That kind of anglicization was very common for immigrants of all types a century ago. Like my own g'g'grandmother.
There are plenty of reasons to dislike that whole family, that's not one I hold against them, or anybody else for that matter.
How much rope does one man get? He has already been given the entire rope store, distribution center, and manufacturing plant. He has so much rope he'd have to fall all the way to mars before he reached the end. He has more rope than he could ever use. At some point the hangman needs to do his job.
If you give someone more than enough rope to hang themselves with, they can hang one end from the ceiling, put the other around their neck and be standing solidly on the floor harm-free.
He'll just continue to say what he's always said, that this judge or that attorney or whoever is against him and this, that, and the other is rigged against him. As far as he's concerned, it's him vs the world.
Did you hear him the other day when he told people at his rally, "I'm being indicted for you." Like he's the second coming of Jesus and he died for his supportters' sins.
As long as his supporters are on board, he'll say whatever shit to make him look like the victim. And his supporters will be all for it.
The man thinks that getting locked up helps him, and that it will fundraise for him. He’s delusional to think that he’ll magically be elected next year and then pardon himself and walk out of jail.
What is it actually going to take to put this fucker in jail? Does he need to intimidate 20 witnesses first? I hate that the justice system feels they need to walk on eggshells around this wanna-be dictator cry baby.
Why 20? Why not 50, or 500? Why not let him stage a coup and attempt to overthrow the government of the United States of America? Oh right, he already did all that stuff and is still walking free.
How do you provide a secret service detail to someone in jail?
Logistics and stupid wording of laws never intended to protect someone so blatantly corrupt, will keep him from ever seeing the inside of a cell. Would be nice if he could be under house arrest with no visitation/internet access though.
A while back I actually looked into this question.
Former presidents are afforded several things by law, including a salary, a stipend for an assistant, and office space rental, and, of course, Secret Service protection for their lifetime.
However, the protection provided by the USSS is described as a duty to protect the (former) President. It doesn't describe, what that looks like, how many agents are involved, or so on. It does allocate, though, up to $1,000,000 every fiscal year to provide that protection.
Hypothetically, if Trump were convicted and the punishment included imprisonment, more likely than not, the USSS would simply arrange for the individual to be isolated from any threats inside the prison and hand custody over to the prison. This might look like a member of the USSS being stations at the prison, essentially, as a guard, supervisor, monitor, etc.
I suspect the realistic scenario would look like the individual being put in an isolated wing or some sort of maximum-security facility, and the USSS checking in on a weekly or even daily schedule, and, in exchange, the prison would be allocated some portion of that annual $1,000,000.
Just get one of those cages he used for the Mexican kids and put it right in the secret service office. Boom, problem solved. They don’t even have to leave their desks.
Someone’s gotta change his diapers
ADX Florence was built for exactly this kind of situation.
Would be a dogshit posting for his detail, but Secret Service is Trumpland anyway so I assume he'll still have lackeys lining up to get the spot.
You don't. You throw his ass into solitary confinement since he can't be in gen-pop, just like you would any other high-profile prisoner.
Depriving him of publicity woul be the worst punishment for this waste of skin.
I assure you, being in solitary confinement, wearing an orange jump suit, and eating prison food is worse. He'll still lose his publicity too.
With you.
Just regular prison guards would do
He's an old white dude with millions of dollars. He will go to "Club Fed" or more likely some kind of house arrest or probation. Honestly you don't want him in a real badass prison because that makes him a martyr. If he's just convicted and ignored that's a worse punishment as he'll slide into obscurity.
Just strip him of his citizenship and dump him at the border. Preferably next to the wall on the US side. Tell him he has 1 hour to climb the wall to Mexico or the dogs will be unleashed.
Who cares? They can do time with him if they want I guess.
House arrest with no internet or phone.
The thing is that the prosecutors have to play by the rules to get him, which takes time, but recently the claws definitely seems to be closing in on him, and the prosecutors have bemig weapons and trump can't stop the system.
Right now it's like a tank going very slowly toward Trump, sure it takes time but if the tank operator does everything right, it will get there eventually.
I feel like the whole “the jaws of justice are slowly closing around trump” comment is the narrative version of that looping gif of the truck almost running into the bollard. Academically, I agree with you. But I’m pretty sure the dude is going to be dead from one of the innumerable heath issues he faces before he sees any real consequence. Time will tell I guess, but like others, I’m not holding my breath. If there were any real justice in the world, trump would have died from Covid. That would have at least been poetic justice for his role in that colossal tragedy.
I totally feel what you're saying and that is scary, but the big difference now is that there are trial dates, we are not in the "at some point" phase anymore.
And allowing witnesses to be intimidated is like allowing trump to have a Javelin in your tank analogy. For the cases to be prosecuted correctly, the necessary witnesses need to give their testimony without fear of retaliation. He needs to be put into pre-trail detainment.
We need to wait until it's normalized.
I'm convinced that Trump could murder someone live on camera and then claim it wasn't him, a shapeshifter did it, and get away with it and still have a voter base defending him.
You're missing a few steps that would occur after the murder. Here's a helpful guide that would explain the path (curtesy of Dayna Craig):
The Narcissist's Prayer
The feds move slowly, but they have their teeth into him now.
Beau Of The Fifth Column has been pretty much nothing but diving into how fucked Trump is, finally, for a few months.
The Judge should lock him up for witness tampering.
This is a state-level case, so it would be Georgia's criminal code that would apply, not Federal
U.S. Code takes precedence over State Codes. So the State and Federal government can charge him.
serious question, is it possible the judge is literally scared for their life if they do this? the first judge that actually stands up and applies the actual law will be praised by people globally, but become a target for millions of MAGA idiots overnight
Under Georgia law it is a felony with a minimum of two, maximum of ten years in prison plus a maximum of $20,000 in fines.
Cool. Too bad they'll ignore it no matter how many times he does it.
I would guess that since charges haven't actually been filed, he's going to be in the clear for this one.
Just throw him away, please.
I'm just so tired of him. Who wants more of this bullshit?
90% of white evangelicals in America to start with.
And these cowardly judges and prosecutors will just let him do all this!
Then we'll be all "surprised" when one witness after another refuse to answer questions or in one way or another sabotages the prosecution's case, and Trump ends up being acquitted.
Throw his ass in jail. Parade him around in handcuffs. Plaster images of him wearing an orange jumpsuit.
Show the world that he is weak and not above the law.
“You can’t arrest me for robbing the bank. I hardly know the people who work there.”
For real though, my money is on GA Governor (republican) pardoning him for all these charges, in the name of “unity” or similar bullshit.
The governor of Georgia doesn't have pardon power. From a recent article in the Journal-Constitution:
How long you think it will take GA republicans to throw away the state constitution?
If republicans cared even a bit about constitution, we wouldn’t have DJT as a front runner of their party in 2023.
Oh thank God, we're safe
Georgia passed a law allowing them to remove DAs instead. :(
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/05/georgia-brian-kemp-bill-remove-local-prosecutors
Governor of Georgia doesn't actually have that power. Pardons in Georgia are managed by a panel, and any applicant for a pardon has to have actually completed all required sentences and be free of criminal behavior for five years.
Source: https://pap.georgia.gov/parole-consideration/pardons-restoration-rights/pardons-faqs
In other words, if Trump is found guilty in Georgia, there is no way to wiggle out of it.
Georgia law doesn't allow for pardons by the Governor.
So....Trump did nothing wrong, but he's telling a witness not to testify to his not-wrongdoing. Got it.
I'm not sure which I find more irritating. Witness tampering or media orgs calling Twitter "X."
It should only ever be referred to as "X, formerly known as Twitter". Much like Prince changing his name, this is a bad move for branding, though I suppose Prince didn't give a fuck about that!
I prefer "Twitter, which Elon Musk refers to as X"
"Twitter, which Elon Musk rebranded as X with an estimated cost of $20 billion"
"...until today. But he'll lose the rest as well probably."
Prince changed his name due to conflict with production companies. It was more done in protest as they were retaining so much of the revenue he brought in.
Just twitter is fine. You don't have to do what an insane billionaire wants.
They should simply do a Prince, call it 'the social media site formerly known as twitter' and not mention X at all.
Prince did that because he wasn't allowed to release albums under the Prince name for some number of years.
So he said "ok fine I'm not Prince, I'm TAFKAP", all of his fans knew where to see him on tour and how to buy his stuff.
Then when the 5 years or whatever ran out he coincidentally wanted to be Prince again.
Seems like a bad contract by the record company to me.
I still don’t call Facebook “meta”. I always suspected they changed the name in the first place because of the negative press Facebook was getting
But isn't the product Facebook still called Facebook? It's the name of the holding company that changed.
It’s still all Facebook to me.
Same with Google. I don’t call them Alphabet.
TIL that’s a real thing and not some weird nickname people were giving to Google. Yeah, im going to call them that either.
Ah yes witness tampering. Completely legal. Its just so great to live in a world where there are no double standards lmao /s
I've noticed his base is starting to turn against the billionaire class. I think Trump is turning them against all the rich and powerful that aren't siding with him basically. And it really seems like he's trying to get a judge to jail him to make him a political martyr and set off the powderkeg he's been building for years. He wants a violent uprising to install him in perpetual power so bad.
He is never going to give up as long as he is not behind bars. If a judge ever orders him into custody, he's going to be dragged out of the courtroom kicking and screaming. They're probably going to wheel him into jail using one of those wheelchair cart things and a spit guard.
Is this the part where we point out (again) that anyone else would be waiting for all this to play out from a jail cell, or at least house arrest, by this point?
Apparently witnesses who were supposed to testify tomorrow are being called today
Something is definitely coming
Why is this idiot not remanded. This country is a laughing stock.
He hasn't been indicted for this one yet.
I see the phone timeout is working.
well, that should do it, judge has every signal he's not going to stop, this should put him in jail.
maybe trump wants the fight about jailing him for witness intimidation/"mah freeaaa speekin" rather than the fight over whether or not he intimidated election officials, stole top secret documents, fraudulently diverted campaign funding and fomented a violent civil insurrection
I kinda think he wants to go to jail?? I dont see how that helps him in an election scenario, but maybe its sinking in deeper and deeper for him that he will not get to that point, the feds will have him in jail before 2024. So maybe his play is to get his insane cult so riled over him being in prison up that thousand of them sacrifice their lives in some kind of futile suicide kooaide style ending to all this?
In U.S. History, men like Trump usually were extreme life-wing types and it didn't end well for them. I'm shocked so little has happened to him. Everything has been legal and by the book. I'm at the point where I believe that he must be locked up and made an example of or our nation will not survive.
Well, if that wouldn't be several thousand problems solving themselves...
This is the Georgia case, hasn't gone to a judge yet. Indictment is supposed to happen any time between now and 9/1.
See my "You Are Here" reply under another comment.
Throw him in the clink, already.
I'd even be OK if they threw him in a hoosegow!
What about the Slammer, though?
(PSA read Snow Crash everybody)
At this point, I'm pretty sure he knows he's guilty as hell, just wants to see if you can rack up all the felonies in all the states. I'm sure he's going to shoot a man in Alaska soon.
He needs to be grounded, like the child that he is. This judge needs to take away his toys and put him in a corner for some quiet time. Amount of time doubles every time he re-commits the same infraction later.
The scary thing is "Trump is his own worst enemy". Yes, you've heard that in regards to him doing things that gets him in trouble a million times. However, when people hear him, they tend to disapprove of him. People are in love with the "idea" of Trump. Putting him in jail for witness tampering might bump him up in the polls since all the republicans can get this "idea" of Trump in their head and the real version can't contradict it.
And before you say it, no, I don't have an alternative. He should be in jail, but it's like taking a fire extinguisher to a grease fire that isn't in a pot.
Just go away already, I'm so tired of hearing about this ass clown.
I'd be down with letting him off of everything if the stipulation was that he was not able to be in any office position, have any social media accounts, or appear in any public or media appearances ever again.
Letting fascists off with a slap on the wrist is the worst possible outcome. It just justifies their actions and even if he can't get into office he can still influence the outcome and burn the place down in a different way.