Kentucky woman sues state over abortion ban so she can terminate her pregnancy
stopthatgirl7@kbin.social to 
kentucky.com
A Kentucky woman Friday filed an emergency class-action lawsuit, asking a Jefferson County judge to allow her to terminate her pregnancy. It’s the first lawsuit of its kind in Kentucky since the state banned nearly all abortions in 2022 and one of the only times nationwide since before Roe v. Wade in 1973 that an adult woman has asked a court to intervene on her behalf and allow her to get an abortion.
Pregnancy comes with medical risk to the mother. Restricting abortion access is a clear violation of the 14th amendment.
Abortion is healthcare.
I mean, "other people" also comes as a health risk. This by itself is not an argument.
And if I interact with you the state doesn't try to deny me medical treatment for whatever condition you gave me.
Sadly even that isn't true anymore. Someone I used to work with died recently of an unknown upper respiratory infection after being turned away by his local hospital 3 times. He eventually coughed until something ruptured and he died due to internal bleeding.
He had a decent paying job with health insurance and likely contracted his infection at work, yet he was denied admission to the hospital for some reasons that his widow and daughter may only find out with a lengthy court battle they can't afford.
Welcome to the dystopia, it's just getting started.
state run hospital or private entity? only asking because the answer is obviously the latter and this is an apples to oranges argument
I wonder if he was turned away for being unvaccinated....
I don't know but I suppose it could be a possibility. My assumption is that he was probably turned away because of understaffing. The hospital he was trying to go to was almost completely staffed with travel nurses a year or two ago and many of those nurses left as working conditions deteriorated. It's all just speculation from me though. The whole thing is quite sad but also infuriating.
Do you mind sharing the state?
He lived/died in Arkansas.
Yes, the healthcare system needs to be fixed. That is definitely a concern with the healthcare system, but unless there was a law denying them treatment that is a different discussion.
Unless it's a pregnancy.
That was exactly the point, yes.
Keep in mind, the main reason why your camp uses this rhetoric is because you want to tie abortion rights to the constitution. That way, it becomes mandatory for all states to respect them.
Yes, all states should protect women's rights, are you kidding?
The other side thinks abortion is not a right.
Your side wants it to be a right so states can't decide for themselves.
As the constitution is written right now, tying abortion to an amendment is a stretch. This is why the ruling that gave constitutional protection of abortion was overturned.
The only good faith argument I've seen is that democrats should've tried harder to explicitly add it to the constitution. That way they don't have to contort the interpretation of amendments to suit their agenda.
But, as tribalists go, it's okay when your tribe does it (14th amendment) but bad when other tribes do it (2nd amendment.) And the worst people of all are the ones who call it out.
You 160 years ago.
That's completely true. Good thing we amended the constitution to ban slavery so it can't be overturned as easily as Roe v. Wade.
So you're saying we can't amend the Constitution to codify abortion rights but it's a good thing we amended to Constitution to ban slavery?
No. What makes you think I'm saying that?
Is the nation more or less divided than when slavery was banned?
The nation was more divided during slavery, hence why we had a civil war over it.
We were only able to outlaw slavery because of who won that war.
Huh. So it was more divided then but it is less likely that we can amend the constitution now due to how divided we are? That doesn't make much sense.
What part of having a civil war determining the fate of slavery do you not understand?
We're not discussing a civil war to add abortion protections to the constitution. We're talking about passing it using measures that would not have worked when trying to outlaw slavery.
You're conflating two marginally related causes as though they are identical. Try to stay on topic and you'll be less confused.
An interesting argument. So law is only credible if people go to war over it and is an expression of millitary superiority. Also the Constitution is the only level of federal law that is binding and the only thing that determines what is both ethical and a human right and any attempt to change that is made right only by an expression of deadly force... Hmm.
There are a lot of non-constitutional federal laws that protect rights however. The FDA for instance enforces the rights of the public to not be subjected to food and drug adulteration, the Americans with Disabilities Act protects the rights of disabled persons guaranting them reasonable accommodation to fully participate in society. Are those laws valid as they are extra constitutional?
As for abortion specifically, the 14th amendment was invoked heavily during the original Supreme court case as the support for the original Roe v. Wade but the document that court decision was based on has not changed, nor has the medical procedure that case was based on. The original court case featured heavily that private citizen rights were nessisary to individually made health decisions based on the established principles outlined in the document. The progression of the court case attempted to follow a series of logic to determine if the constitution was being applied.
It's repeal was through Dobbs v Jackson and it's precedent over turned for reasons "Abortion not being deeply rooted in this Nation's history or tradition", nor considered being a right when the Due Process Clause was ratified in 1868... This is a note for note description of a fallacy - the appeal to tradition. That for something to be true it must be revered as a cultural norm dating back to usually unspecified periord. It also has the component of the genetic fallacy - rejecting or accepting something based on the origin of it rather than it's content.
Following that logic you can dismiss basically all of US law that has been codified after the original constitution. Food and drug adulteration was a huge problem during the period of the signing of the Constitution so obviously the US has no tradition to protect the health of it's citizens based on those grounds. Nothing in the constitution that specifically stops companies from doing that! Disabled people aren't obviously mentioned and we had a long history of basically telling them that they had no right to participation in anything. Basically the entire naturalization process was codified after the original signing so bye bye citizenship rights slavery is legal.
Your argument is essentially that what is codified into law is what is ethical but also that modifying an expanding the protections of those laws are an expression of "tribalism"... But they shouldn't be. The original court that saw Roe v. Wade were majority Conservatives. They held themselves to completely different ethical principles than the modern Conservatives on the court. They MADE this and all constitutional laws a matter of tribalism by discarding logic and greater ethics to the side. Your freedoms and protections are all fundamentally compromised by these fallacies based on exploitation of the system. If one can simply reject the rules, letter and spirit of the law in favour of putting forward the imaginary intentions of a bunch of dead people then all of the laws you have are based only on a complete flight of fancy. They are just hoping you are too wound up in your own tribalism to notice.
Ever noticed that any change made post Confederacy isn't supported by an originalist argument? That's actually by design.
I didn't read the rest of your wall of text because you clearly misunderstood my point in the first 2 sentences.
The law was passed through constitutional amendment because the nation went to war over slavery.
The US did not amend the constitution to protect abortion. It really is that simple. No mental gymnastics, walls of texts, or analogies required.
Too bad it's effectively impossible to amend the Constitution anymore.
Yes. In an ideal world we would be able to add abortion protections to the constitution.
Unfortunately, in the world we live in, I feel it's up to the states to prove their way is better. Just like with marijuana.
Meanwhile on the other side States are trying to make it illegal to pass through them on the way to get an abortion, and to ban the abortion pill Federally.
Sounds less like "letting States decide for themselves" and more like "letting these states decide for everyone else."
How about letting people decide for themselves?
"letting states decide for themselves" is the narrow end of the wedge. just like how the confederacy wanted to "let states decide for themselves" about slavery, then insisted the federal government override free states, tried to militarily annex territories that wanted to be free states, and put it in their constitution that no member could be a free state. they'll "let states decide for themselves" as long as they make the right decision, then they'll decide federally for the states that "decided for themselves" wrong.
conservatives only respect two freedoms: the freedom to do what they want, and the freedom to force you to do what they want.
A factual correction: the Confederacy did not want to let states decide for themselves whether to allow slavery. The main difference between the US and Confederate constitutions was that the Confederate one explicitly denied states the right to ban slavery.
that seems to be what I said
I'm all for that.
Of course, they're not above that. They absolutely want to push the needle so they can push it further. Overturning Roe v. Wade was just another step along that path.
One of these is to allow women to terminate a life threatening pregnancy or one that they don't want, perhaps from rape, or because they can't afford to have a child and it would be living in poverty.
The other one is an effort to stop people machine gunning children in schools, shooting people for using their driveway to turn around or shooting people though thier front door when they knock on it.
If you think those two stances are comparable and both should be cancelled out because of technicalities then you need to get your head examined.
Okay.
Oh let's discuss the second amendment. Tell me, who is your commanding officer in your well-regulated militia? What rank do you hold? Where is your uniform? How much compensation are you given for your service? I hope you are not engaged in stolen valor.
Where does the 2nd amendment specify any of that as being necessary?
You can argue it's a poorly written amendment, but trying to argue it means things that it clearly doesn't just to support your agenda is playing right into my arguments of tribalism and hypocrisy.
Thank you for proving my points.
It’s not a poorly-written amendment unless you ignore the context of the Articles of Confederation, which is where the phrase ‘well-regulated militia’ came from and in which it was explicitly defined:
That was unambiguously what ‘well-regulated militia’ meant when the Constitution was drafted, and was its intended meaning. That context has been lost and/or deliberately obscured in recent years – specifically since the 2008 Heller decision that reinterpreted the 2A to ignore that context and how grammar works in order to include the rights of individuals.
Most people today are fine with that reinterpretation (or are simply unaware it happened), but my point is a core amendment was reinterpreted recently in much the same way you’ve been arguing against.
Why was it fine for the 2A but bodily autonomy is a bridge too far?
Well regulated militia.
Those words are not there by accident. You claim that you have a right to a murder machine because of the text, the text says your murder machine is for the purpose of a well regulated militia. So please describe your militia to me.
only republican doublethink can cast police jailing people for receiving basic healthcare as "freedom".
"Basic healthcare."
There you go obscuring your arguments to make it seem like there is no opposition.
What is that healthcare? See what I mean about arguing in bad faith?
I'm sure people in Egypt will argue Female Genital Mutilation is "basic healthcare."
that healthcare is abortion. basic healthcare agreed upon worldwide outside of a tiny sliver of americans in a child genital mutilation cult that has established minority rule.
No, it really isn't.
Healthcare that's needed to prevent someone from funny sounds pretty fucking basic to me.
Wtf do you think "well regulated" means?
It means "functioning as expected".
Who do you think is in the militia?
(edit: source https://www.constitution.org/1-Constitution/cons/wellregu.htm )
Name one other context where anyone uses "well regulated" to mean that. You can't, because it's a bad faith argument based on pretending words mean something other than what they plainly do.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/regulate#:~:text=To%20control%20or%20direct%20according,for%20accurate%20and%20proper%20functioning.
Definition 3. Remember, the English you speak isn't the exact same as English spoken over 2 centuries ago, in this context the obvious and predominant meaning at the time of the writing of the 2nd Amendment is that "well-regulated" didn't mean "regulation" as you imagine it now, it was more along the lines of well-functioning/trained/maintained/whatever.
But the meaning isn't even relevant because the "right to bear arms" isn't bound by it:
From a linguistically unbiased standpoint, it's clear that the first half, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," is a reasoning for the directive, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The usage of commas has changed over time, which is where a lot of the confusion comes from nowadays, a more modern reconstruction would only use one comma.
The term for it would be "absolute clause" – it serves many purposes, and in this case it gives reasoning for a something, but doesn't lock that something to the reasoning.
Politics has seeped deep into peoples' view of the linguistics of the amendment, but it's really simple, this is basic grammar. It doesn't say nor imply "The right of a well-regulated Militia to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed", they specifically wrote it as "the right of the people" for a reason.
Making it an argument of the 2nd Amendment only applying to militias is arguing in bad faith – it's clear that the amendment was written for everyone to have the right to bear arms, regardless of militias (although motivated by the security of the state, which well-armed militias can supply).
The only argument is whether the 2nd Amendment is suitable for the modern day, whether we should repeal/overwrite it, or at the very least to what extent protecting the "right of the people to bear arms" can be applied – obviously prisoners/felons can't bear arms, there are a lot of regulations on who can bear arms and which arms you can bear (not even "the militia" can just bear any arms they like). And of course other first world countries are faring much better without a "2nd Amendment", and with much tighter gun control.
Ah yes, the old "half the amendment is just there for decoration" argument. That's where I stopped reading. You're a lost cause.
Not my fault you didn't pay attention in English classes when you were in school :/
Also I clearly stated why it was there – as a good reasoning for the amendment existing and emphasising the amendment's importance to the security of the state. It's right next to the most important freedom (to the writers), the freedom of speech, it's important to explain why they find it so essential.
Listen, you can have whatever stance you want on gun rights or whatever, but you can't just make up your own reality and twist linguistics to fit your perception. I'm very pro-strict-gun-control, as already stated, I'm extremely left-leaning, if anything interpreting the 2nd Amendment factually and accepting it not only applying to militias is more of a detriment to my political goals, but I'm not going to take that and decide that it's better to twist basic grammar to my liking. You can't just treat the 2nd Amendment syntactically differently from any other sentence for no reason. Linguistics isn't a political tool, it's a science (unless you're a prescriptivist).
Whatever you want it to mean.
I want it to mean no one. Hand in your gun to the nearest police department as you are by definition no longer in the well-regulated militia
Okay.
The rule was overturned because the Pope told Roberts and the other Catholics to overturn it.
I'm not so sure about that. Can you share more information? It sounds interesting.
Bodily autonomy enshrined in a nation's most important document? Yeah that sounds pretty good.
Enshrining it is fine. But taking a weak stance to link it to an amendment that never had it in mind, well, opens you up for its interpretation to get overturned.
Seriously! Remember how when they wrote the 2nd ammendmen, they absolutely had modern firearms in mind, right? How is bodily autonomy a "weak stance"?
The other side argues that the unborn child has rights and that the 14th amendment does not protect abortion.
You're trying to tie abortion to 'bodily autonomy' because you want abortion to be protected by the constitution. That way, states don't get to decide for themselves.
Abortion would have better protections with its own amendment, but you know how difficult (impossible?) that will be, so it's imperative that you find a way to tie it to existing amendments.
In what universe are they not tied together? There's no good-faith argument against this.
In the universe where people believe an unborn child has rights.
Should expectant mothers be allowed to engage in activities that harm their children?
What about in the universe where a pregnant woman has a non-viable pregnancy that will cause her lasting medical harm if she doesn't get treatment?
Should governments be allowed to engage in activities that strictly harm their citizens?
I think the mother gets precedent over the child. Even if the pregnancy is viable and there is no elevated risk of harm to the mother, she should still be allowed to have an abortion.
Some people disagree with me though for the reasons I have mentioned.
Bodily autonomy means only you have the absolute right to do with your body what you want. The "unborn child" has no right to claim your body for its own use. Removing it from the body is always done as safely as possible; before 24 weeks this means an abortion, as the fetus is non-viable still. After 24 weeks, it's called an induced birth and the baby gets to survive.
This without question ties the right to abortion to the right to bodily autonomy. The "rights of the unborn child" are respected by not killing it after 24 weeks.
That's fair, I totally agree with you. An unborn child is just a collection of cells with no sense of self. I mean, it really calls into question what is a conscious being, imo, which they clearly are not. They're far, far from developing the facilities to manifest consciousness.
That said, a lot of people cannot understand this. I think it's unfair to misrepresent their argument and therefor misunderstand them. It's not conducive to discussion. Even if they're wrong, I think it's important to acknowledge what their stance is, for what it is.
Do you get to harvest my organs without my consent, yes or no?
Mmm, is that a 1:1 analogy of abortion?
And yet the other side is calling for a federal ban.
The ‘states’ rights’ crowd waffles between arguing for state or federal control depending on which is more convenient to a particular conversation.
Yes. Both sides are happy to cry 'slippery slope' and then engage in it when it is favorable to them.
The difference is one side isn't trying to force anything, they're just saying "you have the choice".
The other side is trying to force their choice on everyone?
Well, not exactly. If people want to live in a state where they don't have the choice for an abortion, then making it federally mandatory takes that choice away from them.
If you don't want an abortion you are under no obligation to have one. The only right they lost was the right to kill woman for the Christian blood god
Typical, willful misunderstanding of state's rights.
Even if you disagree with the rights, you can't deny that people think they should exist.
Do you think, for example, that Thailand is justified in executing drug users? That's the right of their state. Should there be a world constitution that stops them from doing that? I personally think, yes. But it doesn't exist, so drug users in Thailand must suffer execution.
It's an unfortunate world we live in, but bad faith arguments do not make it better.
You're deliberately misunderstanding. You are conflating choice with people wanting the law to be a specific way. You don't want an abortion? Don't have one. That has nothing to do with me. My potential abortion has nothing to do with you. Once you decide to make it illegal for me to have an abortion, that is taking away all choice. The law allowing for either/or is not making a choice on your ability to not have an abortion; that doesn't take away from you. You still get to decide to not have one.
Most 12 year old rape victims didn’t get to choose the state in which they were born. Most people living in poverty don’t have the luxury of just moving somewhere else. And what about the disabled or women with court orders preventing them from leaving the state for whatever reason? There are many, many situations where that isn’t feasible.
That view of the situation is pretty myopic and privileged.
And what's wrong with that? It's something, especially compared to your plan of doing essentially nothing until an amendment is ratified.
Well, your ruling might get overturned!
This is completely irrelevant. The 9th Amendment says a right does not need to be explicitly mentioned in the Constitution to be protected, nor are other rights lesser to those that are explicit.
SCOTUS has been spitting on the Constitution for a long time.
It’s not weak. Originalism is weak. It basically asserts that the constitution and all amendments must have been written by psychics who could predict every situation that would arise in the future, forever.
Of course things written decades or centuries ago couldn’t predict what’s relevant today or five decades from now, so of course they should be open to interpretation as the needs of society change. It’s the difference between following the spirit or the letter of the law, and it’s why most laws aren’t merely prescriptive, but outline motivations and goals.
Not really. The constitution is a living document and was meant to grow with the times.
The problem is that it's next to impossible to add amendments to the constitution now due to how divided the nation is. This means that in order for abortion to receive protection under the constitution, it would need to be tied to an existing amendment that was not drafted with abortion in mind.
That's why it's so crucial to make arguments like "abortion is bodily autonomy" rather than "abortion is a guaranteed right under the xth amendment."
You are contradicting yourself all over the place in these comments.
Okay.
They were arguing against the term "originalist". Guess you missed that bit.
The ability to remove stuff from your body seems pretty damn important, though. Infected wisdom teeth, fatty tissue removal, cysts, appendixes infected or not....there's very good reasons why someone might want to be able to remove something from their body. Seems un-American to infringe on someone's rights.
That's fair. I think the other side is arguing any angle that will put the power to legislate back into the hands of states.
Pretty sure they are not. Moving the power closer to the people would be making it a personal choice. Also they would happily adopt a national ban.
I agree.
Or, (and I know this is shocking), none of the rights in the Constitution work if privacy and bodily autonomy aren't protected. Everything just falls apart.
What's your point?
Exposing bad-faith arguments on both sides.
Neither of you are above tribalism or hypocrisy and should be criticized as such.
Oh, fuck off. Fucking "both sides"ing abortion? Really? Just fuck off.
Argue in good-faith and you would be free from my criticism.
This isn't just about abortion. It's about abortion being protected by the constitution.
Funny how you just proved my point, lol.
I'm not making an argument. I'm telling you to fuck off.
Ok. Thanks for proving my point and being uncivil about it.
Ok, thanks for admitting you're not here for any sort of good faith discussion and are just here to feed your smug sense of superiority.
What are you talking about?
Anyone who says "You just swore at me, that means I'm right! Ha!" Is an idiot.
It is neither difficult nor admirable to annoy people to the point of having them curse you out. Taking that as a sign of success really says a lot about you.
Right. Thanks for spelling it out for me.
Fuck off.
Alright, time to block you.
Fuck off.
The problem here, sweetie, is that you're assuming both sides have bad faith arguments.
In this case, they both do.
The problem is that you don't want to admit that because you're biased.
Or you just don’t understand it
I mean, your tribe would say that.
Or you just think it's fine to force people to medical events they don't want.
"your camp"
Yes, this is what tribalism results in.
The respecting women tribe ? Count me in.
It is deeply upsetting that this is where we are at in the U.S. That said, I hope she kicks their ass in court.
Classic conservative move -- getting a vaccine during a deadly pandemic is an affront to bodily autonomy rights, but it's totally okay to force a woman to carry a pregnancy because of religious beliefs.
I don’t necessarily disagree, but they would counter this argument by simply flipping it: “If you can get an abortion why should I have to get a vaccine?”
And, of course, the logic here is that the vaccine helps you and everyone else because the virus won’t spread as much, and the abortion affects — bodily — just the woman. But that won’t matter to their argument.
Didn't we cover all this in 2021?
Nobody was ever punished for not getting a vaccine in a way that's remotely comparable to the punishments women and doctors are threatened with for abortions.
Nobody was ever forced to get a vaccine against their will. Forcing women to give birth against their will is the whole point of abortion laws.
Abortion isn't contagious. Having one doesn't put people around you in any kind of risk. Being unvaccinated does greatly increase the likelihood that people around you will get sick.
Vaccine mandates were only a thing in the middle of a pandemic. They've all been rolled back since the crisis has gotten under control. Abortion restrictions, OTOH, are not temporary and were not created in response to some special circumstance.
But they didn't get the vaccine and now these women still can't get abortions. Maybe if they were forced to get the vaccine they could argue that but they weren't. There was no law requiring normal citizens to get a vaccine but there is a law now stopping normal citizens from getting an abortion. So it seems the group has won both arguments with conflicting hypocritical information
Utilitarianism sucks. Violating sovereignty is wrong in either case. You can refuse to treat someone with Covid because they didn't get the vaccine when they had the opportunity to. You can shun the person socially for getting an abortion and reject them from your groups. But you can't reasonably interfere with their body.
The primary ethical punitive act any individual or group may apply to another is to remove one's presence from their life. If they survive without you, then that's fine.
Sovereignty resolves a fuckton of organizational and legal issues. Even with it being fairly implicit in the minds of most, it is a massive foundational issue that underpins any reasoning about rights. When the push for mandatory covid vaccines came along, I knew immediately we were at risk of losing abortion, because body sovereignty was on the line - and without sovereignty, there can be no valid moral community.
And if your community isn't moral, I will simply make my choices, having an abortion if needed, and choosing to get covid rather than getting a vaccine. If you fight me on it, I'll fight right back, up to the point that you cease to impose your will on me, or on those I recognize as my community.
If the social contract is compulsory, that is called slavery.
TBF It also affects the baby
Fetus*
So do school shootings, lack of healthcare, lack of parental leave, lack of affordable housing, lack of public funding for education or childcare or anti-vax tendencies.
Are you sure you didn't misspell "fetus?"
What baby?
I love to compare conservative support for vaccines with conservative support for abortion. Now that the GOP caught the dog, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s more conservative support for abortion rights than vaccines.
Sorry Christian blood god needs blood.
Democrats had fifty freaking years to get something on the books and they did nothing. Shove it into a must pass bill. Fifty years of "it's decided by the courts, no reason to go further" attitude.
Republicans will literally legalize hunting gay people for sport and the white left is still gonna find a way to make it the Dems' fault
I mean, being the lesser-evil doesn't make you good or free from criticism. Lol.
Maybe dems should elect better reps! Then we wouldn't be in this situation.
That still won't matter as long as conservatives constantly have a majority in congress
Perhaps democrats should start running better candidates?
Perhaps all the appallingly egregious gerrymandering that ensures democrats can’t win in many areas should be addressed?
Democrats could run Jesus himself and lose in many places.
Democrats could run Jesus in Texas and he'd be lynched.
Absolutely, but gerrymandering isn't the only issue.
Definitely not. But we have to recognise which issues supersede others, and which must be fixed before it’s even physically possible to address the other things.
It’s like fretting over the train being on schedule before the tracks have been laid. Yes, many things need fixing and several are dire, but without the tracks, shouting at the conductor to make the train go faster is futile.
There's two conflicting viewpoints here. You need as many pro choice Democrats elected as possible to codify abortion rights.
But that doesn't happen in just one election cycle. If you punish Democrats for not fixing it immediately, you'll never build up the necessary numbers. And that's exactly what happened. Democrats got a huge boost in 2008 that was enough to advance things somewhat. Voters stayed home in 2010 because they didn't like the limited improvements, and in doing so, handed Republicans the majority and prevented anything more than the limited improvements.
Even Roe wasn't repealed overnight. It was a multi decade campaign. The left needs to play just as much of a long game to get what we want. There'll be absolutely no progress if we keep getting to get one large push to the left in 2 years, versus several smaller pushes to the left over 10 years to get to the same point.
You must ask yourself how the Republicans are able to pass such legislation while the Dems can't ever seem to get anything done "because the Republicans interfere with it", even with a Democratic super majority.
Doesn't make much sense.
Lemme put it this way. If Democrats choose to let Republicans hunt gay people for sport, after they've had decades to type some words on a piece of paper that would prevent it, the Democrats are partially to blame when they do.
Why would you defend people who've not only not done shit to defend you, but have actively made it easier for you to be in danger?
Please, enlighten me if I'm wrong. Don't just downvote and insult me. Is there a good reason why Roe V Wade wasn't codified? Are y'all just upset to see reminders that the Democratic party isn't flawless?
Priv the only one making it easier for me to be in danger is you and your ilk letting the Republicans back into power so damn often because "i WaNt To VoTe FoR sOmEoNe!"
Bush won because y'all flocked to nader, and then Trump won because y'all did it again with Stein.
All this accusation of doing nothing and being an active hindrance rings pretty fucking hollow when people like you have to be dragged kicking screaming ans fighting the whole way just to vote for our safety.
Y'all want the aesthetic of guillotines and pride marches with none of the work of being at the polls and being on your representatives.
How am I letting republicans back into power by voting blue all the way down the ballot every fucking year
I'm not reading the rest of your reply until you answer that
How is it a bad thing to be upset that Democrats aren't doing what I voted for them to do?
It was on the books! It was already decided at the Scotus level.
Stare decisis should have applied and Scotus shouldn't have even heard the case under precedent.
The idea that a constitutional amendment needs to be made for something to be "on the books" is absurd.
What happened here is Scotus broke their own rules. They ignored the 9th and the 14th and violated their own principles.
This court is corrupt. Several justices should be impeached and removed.
Roe was settled case law. Pretending it wasn't is a joke.
I wish it was far more common knowledge that SCOTUS doesn't just ignore the 9th amendment, they flagrantly violate it. The amendment says they a right does not need to be explicitly mentioned to be protected -- which makes a lot of sense when you think back on American history, because opponents of the Constitution felt that only our enumerated rights were protected and no other freedoms. Hence, why the 9th was made.
The actual text goes further and says that the explicit enumeration of rights in the Constitution should not be used to disparage or forbid our other rights. This is exactly what SCOTUS disobeys, because the "a right must be guaranteed by an amendment" philosophy they've adopted for abortion flies in the face of that.
Roe was "something on the books", sunshine. Until Trump stacked the Supreme Court there wasn't a need to put anything into law.
And democrats were warned time and time again to codify it into law and not just leave it as a court case.
Really? When? I'd love to see a source for your comment along with the majority Senate, house, and president of all Democrats who all agreed for a long enough period to actually get it passed. Please, inform me of this mass of Democrats who all believed the same thing.
At what point in the last 50 years did Democrats have a majority of pro-choice congresspeople with a president who wouldn't veto such a bill? Because I'm close to 50 and I don't remember when that was.
Remember when Obama care got passed? I think we had the votes at that time
We did? Because that was passed with the help of Joe Donnelly, who was anti-abortion. And with some Republicans, who were also anti-abortion. And it only passed without the public option.
I don't know that it's the best example.
Nope. We had exactly 60 votes, and that included moderates who shot down further left provisions of Obamacare like single payer. If not for them, we'd have gotten it.
It's also very noteworthy that Democrats were a lot more conservative back then -- or rather, there were a lot more Manchin types in the party. I don't think there were even 50 pro abortion Senate votes, frankly. It's really understated how Democrats have shifted left since Obama, as a product of losing those Manchin seats and only keeping solid blue ones.
That's what the party of 'lesser-evil' gets you.
The 'lesser' evil. Lol.
Kentucky woman sues state over abortion ban so she can
terminate her pregnancymurder her child.There, fixed that for you.
Fetuses are not children. Or do you think my balls contain half children?
What about this woman?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar
Fuck all the way off, asshole.
You're a hypocrite and a liar.
Let me tell you why: Infant mortality (live births that died under 1 year of age) in the US rose by 3% in 2022, increasing for the first time in 20 years from 5.44 per 1000 live births in 2021 to 5.60. (data from the CDC)
Comparing with Europe, you let almost twice of your babies die.
I'm talking about real babies here, babies whose fathers have held them in their arms, changed their diapers, sang them lullabies... And you let them die.
Why is infant mortality in the US the highest of any industrialised nation?
Two reasons: because maternity care in the US is utterly appalling, and because you limit access to abortion. Read more.
You don't care about children. You care about controlling women. Land of the free allright...
From the article, a nonviable child. So with no abortion it will die anyway probably in pain while also risking the mother's life.
No, sparky, "terminate her pregnancy" was correct. No child is murdered by an abortion. Claiming otherwise requires profound ignorance of biology and what happens during pregnancy.
You're the kind of person who's kids are going to put them in a home, and you'll deserve it.
Even The Bible says that life begins at first breath, so nope. Not murder.
Scientifically the fetus is a parasite right up until it isn't, and as long as it cannot live without its mother, it's not alive. You cannot murder that which was never alive.
So your argument is that tapeworms, vampire bats, mistletoe, and a significant percentage of mushrooms aren't alive?
There are excellent arguments for abortion access, so FFS please drop this one. It's counterproductive.
Are you fucking high?
Nah they'd probably have empathy if high
Maybe it's not the murder you should be making peace with but the idea of all the suffering caused by not having the abortion of a nonviable fetus. People ask What right do we have to end it? Wrong question. What right do we have to force such a thing upon another human? And all anyone is asking you to do is make peace with yourself so another does not suffer. See it as mercy.
So you want women to be forced to give birth to babies that will only survive a few hours or days and be in agonizing pain the entire time.
Noted.
/s or serious?
Probably serious, but it's funny watching him use the same tactic I see in just about every thread.
"Headline should be what supports my agenda."
There. Fixed it for you.
hey fuck you too, you're the other person arguing against reproductive rights and that's all i know about you!
I was never arguing against reproductive rights.
then you fucked up, because you very clearly were. for someone so enthusiastic about judicial rulings, squibbling over definitions, acting neutral and claiming no opinion... it's funny how all your arguments happen to support fascist policy. Just an oopsie daisy?
and if you want to teach a lesson on tribalism, instead of just pretending to be in the fascist tribe you could try being more human than just a box of contrarian statements against human rights
You're too far gone.
Wow nice tribalist thinking. You don't know anything about me except a couple random comments and you think you can make that evaluation? You're evaluating an ideology not a person at this point - but keep pretending to call out tribalism while doing it yourself!
Now you're just desperate for responses, lol.
I think the title was fine as-is, thanks.
Nope.
Good, let the squishy blob get flushed down a gas station toilet. Let another kid have a better chance.