The true year of linux is not any specific year or a userbase percentage but when linux is widely preinstalled on consumer hardware without nerds needing to recommend to people to install it themselves
The steamdeck is the first step to that future
In my region (India), for a while, there seemed to be plenty of laptops available with Linux installed as an option. Then again in the last few years that seems to have withered down to almost none, sometimes even if the same model is available with Linux in some other regions. I am not sure what changed. Perhaps some deal with Microsoft. The good part is that the fact that they do support Linux elsewhere on the same laptop configuration generally means its easy to get it up and running yourself even if it does not come pre-installed.
In any case, as an old-timer, it's very impressive to me how much hardware Linux supports nowadays without any drama at all. Not to mention all the progress made in software especially in supporting Windows-only games, which is truly magical work by the Wine / Proton teams. As far as I am concerned the "Year of Linux Desktop" is here already since I can use it daily without missing absolutely anything at all from Windows.
That was the same in Brazil, where I live. This scared the beejesus out of Microsoft, so they created special, cheaper version for developing countries to counter it.
Honestly seeing the performance of the steam deck right now I'd probably buy a steam machine if a modern one came out
Steam Deck is the first taste I get of Linux. I've always had this fear of not being able to fully utilize a Linux OS due to my lack of skills in coding, but I find myself looking into it more ever since I got a Steam Deck. It may just be the right excuse I need to git gud in coding.
Edit: Thanks for the clarification and encouragement guys. I'm going to make it a mission to move to Linux ASAP since it feels like Windows has been really pushing the limits of privacy these days.
You don't gotta know how to code to use Linux. Maybe some basic skills in scripting will be useful as a tool but other than that it's more about learning how the system is laid out and where to go to do things. Just becoming familiar with doing things in a Linux environment
you don't have to know coding to enjoy Linux! it's got a reputation of being techie-oriented thanks to users of Arch Linux (a very techie distribution of Linux) dominating the Linux community, but there are plenty of distributions for everyday users, like Zorin OS and Elementary
You don't need coding, don't worry. :) It's useful to start learning the Linux command line however.
Ba-dum-tss
The steamdeck is the first step to that future
I'm sure people said the same about android
I get that SteamOS is an actual desktop distro, and that's closer to a daily driver than any android or bespoke *nix compatible SOC OS, but I doubt we'll see this spread from steamdeck to daily drivers, unless...
Unless linux can offer some feature windows/mac/ios do not, or at least market itself as doing so the way that Apple does, and get the overwhelming majority of tech consumers—who want nothing more than to keep up with the joneses and see the hardware specs numbers get bigger—to FOMO into it
Unfortunately that would conflict with the most enticing features it does have that no one else does: a code of ethics that are inherently anti-capitalist and anti-authoritarian. And honestly, who wants every Linux community, online or off, flooded with consumers who only care about the newest Feature™ and have no care about maintaining software freedom?
The only thing I see holding people back is software availability. If it could run adobe and games natively I don't see why anyone would want to pay for windows.
Software is definitely at the top of the list in terms of reasons. But the UX/UI definitely leaves something to be desired. I sigh heavily every time an application asks me to edit a text-based config file instead of giving me a GUI. It's an unnecessary, error-prone process and most importantly I have better things to do than read yet another page of documentation. That doesn't mean I want the config file to go away, it's still very useful for a variety of reasons. But I shouldn't have to mess around with it just to remap keys or other common tasks. Editing a config file should be a last resort for an end user.
You see similar problems when relying on the terminal. I don't like this idea of the end user being allowed to mess around without a safety net or some sort of guidance.
Right. I guess it doesn't help that I haven't used mint since it came out or when they switched to cinnamon.
adobe sucks for the same reasons I alluded to in my last paragraph. Money-grubbing corporation company hurts developers by patenting, trademarking, and copyrighting every minor feature in their programs to the point where FOSS alternatives have to bend over backwards to find ways to implement some of the same functionality. The problem isn't linux, the problem is adobe, the problem is profit-motive, the problem is capitalism.
IDK what distro you use, but I'm using Debian, and it does run games natively--nearly half of the ones I own on steam. Not all of them, but that's not Linux's fault, that's not Gnu's fault, that's not Debian's fault: they already offer compatibility layers and yet that's not good enough for everyone, and there's not much they can do beyond that outside of building a windows clone (or at least a partial clone) that would probably get them sued. To run natively, the devs would have to compile it to run on Linux and the ones that don't are making the choice to not do so--consciously or not, because of profits or not; it's hard to say why, even indie devs who make free games as a hobby sometimes choose not to, so it's not as easily dismissed with "because capitalism"
That all being said, the "software availability" criticism can cut both ways. I've found so many tools and utilities and apps and FOSS programs that are only made available for linux (unless one is willing to port them oneself), and there isn't an app or program I use everyday that I haven't found a linux-compatible alternative for. The glaring exception being games; to me that wasn't a huge deal, I'll bite that bullet because I'd rather go without kernel-privileged spyware for an OS--and the same for an anti-cheat engine--than play a triple-A on maximum graphics, play online multiplayers that require microsecond reaction time, or other such use cases where Proton actively hinders UX. Like I said, I'd rather have anti-authoritarian computers than worry about keeping up with the performance spec joneses
So... About 2010? When Android phones became widespread.
That's not a desktop.
Some would say desktops are not really consumer hardware anymore. Unfortunately. Sent from my useless black rectangle.
Androis uses linux, but that does not make it a Desktop Linux. It's not invalid, just out of scope to this metric. It's pretty simple.
Honestly whatever Linux Distro takes over will almost certainly be an Android or ChormeOS style bastardization where you can certainly see the lineage but it's so locked down and so far removed from the userland and tooling we expect that the whole point of "year of the Linux desktop" is lost
Yes and no. MacOS is basically the year of the Unix desktop for a while now and it’s still powerful and user friendly. Just fire up a terminal and it’s Unix. The benefit they have is hardware control so stuff just works and no driver hardware issues etc…
I agree. Linux is great when one has the time but not the money.
However for a system that just works - MacOS is one of the best bsd distros of all time esp on arm.
Sadly MacOS also comes with the downfalls of a closed and proprietary ecosystem.
@const_void
Have you used Linux lately? It really doesn't take any more time than anything else. @FunkyClown
Yes, I have yet to have a zero-config experience even on vertical (but open) platforms like RasberryPi. What has been your experience?
GPU, Sound, WiFi Day 0 / 1 / 365 are not yet on par with MacOS or Win11, for me, anyway.
For me, it is important to recognize there is a larger time investment, otherwise how does it get better?
@const_void
Certainly, let's look for more ways to improve, but I've not had a need to fiddle with hardware configs in a while.
I count 2 personal laptops, a desktop, and a couple RasPis that just worked for me. One laptop had suspend issues in Windows that went away with Linux, which surprised the hell out of me.
My work laptop (Windows 11) needed GPU drivers reinstalled and increasingly acts up with docking and suspend.
Maybe I've lucked into good hardware or something.
I have on servers as I run my own lemmy server. I do like Linux desktop but macOS just works for my work and home laptop.
@FunkyClown Use what you like! I'm not here to proselytize.
I'm not arguing this part at all, I agree with you.
1-16 of over 1,000 results for "android laptop computer"
There is something of a blurry line between the two these days.
I get the "Android software isn't desktop software" argument, but then, I can also fire up up emacs in Termux on my Android phone, so that's kind of blurry too.
I remember Dell had an option back in 2013 on the XPS laptops...
The reddit API debacle sent me down a Lemmy, FOSS, Linux, privacy, hacker rabbit hole that I will hopefully and happily never have to leave. My eyes are opened to a better future. I’ll probably be duel booting windows for awhile still to keep up for my job, but I have been able to start transitioning away pretty easily thanks to the hard work of linux desktop devs. I am so grateful for the FOSS community and hope to contribute myself someday.
One of us, one of us ! Proxmox vaultwarden owncloud openmediavault docker-mailserver openwrt syncthing
why syncthing and not nextcloud
@jackpot@interdimensionalmeme Syncthing does not require a server and is much easier to set up from a user perspective.
no server, how does thay work
@jackpot You add every device to every other device and they connect directly to each other. If direct connection isn't possible (1 out of 10 times) then a relay server is used. The relays are provided by the community for free (I am running one).
Why a screwdriver and not a driver drill?
They may only use it for files and stuff and don't need a full cloud office suite
Mostly vibes
Syncthing seems really good at filesync and backup
Owncloud vs nextcloud
Nextcloud seems just a tad too popular
I've been mostly using Windows in a VM. I've not booted into my Windows partition for months now while sitting there almost untouched for 2 and an half years, and in one week or two I am getting rid of it. And with my Steam Deck coming I will install Windows on that on an SD Card, so in case I ever need a physical Windows system for something (likely some anti-cheat crippled game, or Microsoft Store exclusive game, or a software that for some reason doesn't work on Wine or in the VM) I have one ready.
The nasty truth is, most folks don't have a computer at home anymore. They do everything on their phone. The desktop is reserved for the office worker, which is itself a double-edged sword as the average office worker is so clueless about the computer they're sitting in front of that it could be replaced with a Linux desktop without them knowing anything other than "IT changed this and I don't like it" but the flip side of that is that there's a generation of IT people who learned their craft during the Ballmer era and are now in positions where they run the IT departments (and those who learned before and Linux kinda sucked back then). If they aren't too jaded to try something new they're too tired or too scared of the long term ramifications of trying something so radically different
As someone in the initial "hop around and pick up as many skills and resume line items as possible" phase of my IT career, I've already heard the exact reasons why Windows is still so prevelent "our company's client base is largely farmers. Sure you might have the skills to be a Linux admin but who would replace you whenever you move on? Good luck finding a good Linux admin around here at a rate we can pay!" "Windows Server is so much easier to deploy and troubleshoot without having to remember the commands, why would I bother learning Linux which is much harder to learn when employers around here aren't even looking for Linux experience" and even my friends who appreciate the geekiness and will openly lab out ideas in their free time for fun have to stay realistic about how stable or how janky every part of the given software solution is, plus the value of a support contract where you can answer the "why is this not fixed" questions with "I have a ticket in with the vendor"
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I dont think the universe will exist in 2024!(or 6.460263446 E+5814) years
Perhaps. But by then it certainly would be the year of the Linux desktop by then. What other operating system can handle years that long, starting from Jan 1, 1970 to Jan 1, 6.460263446E+5814. Linux, that's what.
Well what if I install Linux on my "free school Chromebook/Windows laptop/MacBook"?
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The crazy thing is more and more is purely being done through a web browser as time goes on, so it's becoming more and more possible to switch at the drop of a dime for people
so true. I use very few native applications and do 90% of everything in a browser. Notable exceptions: Libreoffice, FileZilla, Thunderbird and an image editor
I know it's not a very Linuxy distro, but Linux Mint (Cinnamon) is so easy to use, especially for Windows users. I've completely replaced Windows (and with better software), aside from using Windows for a few games that require it. I used Ubuntu, Suse, and Fedora long ago, but for me, Mint takes the proverbial cake.
Being a beginner distro doesnt make mint any less linuxy. Its probably the gest recommendation to convert people over from windows
Thank you. I appreciate your perspective. Using Linux again has been like a breath of fresh air, honestly. I just love how fast everything is. (Both my Windows and Mint boots live on their own M.2 drives, but Mint is so, so much faster.) And, unlike Windows, I don't feel like I have to jerry rig it to get things to work. I'm sure there are instances where that is the case, but I haven't run into them yet.
I feel like fedora would be good for Mac converts.
My favorite is fedora. Ubuntu second. It's alright but it's bloated. I have a thing for gnome.
Kde plasma and other kde stuff seems promising too.
Eventually id like to use arch.
The nice thing is that you can test out what you like about linux on mint cinnamon.
I installed it to get to know Linux "the soft way" and now love to use the terminal and got to know a buch of underlying concepts and whatnot. And I still use and love mint cinnamon.
A friend installed it and hasn't configured anything, just uses its GUI and is very happy that way.
So I think the creators really hit the balance of ease of use and possibility to tinker, while ensuring great stability ("it just works"). Big props btw.
I’m a linux user in the past 20years, and used to work with high maintenance / cutting edge distros like arch but grew tired and now use exclusively mint.
Very stable, quiet, beautiful ux (tho cinnamon can look more modern).
I think many linux users go through a similar journey. In the beginning you feel a need to tweak everything manually, you take pride in it being difficult and you polish your dotfiles. Modifying the OS itself is 90% of what you use the computer for. You have strong opinions on tiling window managers. But then that becomes kind of old when you need your computer for actual tasks and work. You want to work on your actual projects, not configure irssi or ncmpcpp. The joy of tinkering with the OS itself transforms into seeing it as a tool to do interesting things with.
Still, now you have an idea of how to fix things, where to look, but configuring Xorg is not the fun part of using a computer.
I just wiped Windows from my main PC the other day and put Linux Mint on there. Feels good man.
I remember in the beginning when leaving windows how quiet everything was. No notifications from windows about all kinds of shit, no ads and no interruptions. Have you noticed how calm it feels?
I've been trying to distance myself from large corporations. It's a slow process but I'm on the way.
Good on you mate, and welcome aboard!
Assuming it isn't you first time: there's a slight learning curve, but once you're passed a few months and you've resolved a few issues on your own you won't look back!
Look into KDE extensions to customize your desktop just the way you want it! My windows wobble around or fizzle out of existence when I close them. :)
My first introduction to Linux was back in College in 2005. I ended up doing it off college but I've messed with Linux on and off over the years. A few months back I put GalliumOS on my Chromebook and I've done all sorts of stuff with the Raspberry pi. I wouldn't say I'm proficient in the slightest and I know very few terminal commands but I think I can manage.
Oh, you'll be fine then. Haven't used Mint personally, but I've heard good things about it! Always reach out for help.
I've federated my server with a lot of Linux content so I'm pretty much surrounded on Lemmy.
Hello, I want you to know that Linux Mint has some issues:
Their site was hacked twice and a malware-infected ISO was being distributed.
They have a mixture of repositories where they get certain crucial things from Ubuntu's repositories; this can cause trouble.
That being said, you may want to give Ubuntu officials a try instead.
Ah yes, like last year. And the year before. And ...
Isn't that the joke tho?
At this rate, we'll be 30% in 300 years!
2323 - the year of Linux desktop.
this stuff is exponential, getting to 0% to 3% is harder than 10% to 30%
Not that I don't like the steam deck, I think it is really great for linux adaption. I am just curious.
This is in the StatCounter FAQ:
Are laptops included in the desktop platform?
Yes. Laptops and desktop machines are included in the desktop platform together. We use the browser useragent to determine the platform and there is not enough information contained in the useragent to distinguish between laptops and desktops. That is why we do not have a separate laptop platform.
So it sounds like they're using the useragent to distinguish between mobile and desktop. So most likely, yes, steam decks would be counted as desktops, but only to the degree that they are used to browse the internet. I suspect most steam deck users don't do that, but I don't know, I don't have a steam deck.
That makes sense, thank you!
Wonder what dent the 40M rasberry pi's make, not to mention virtual desktops and the like! The number may be higher than 3%!
probably not much, since i imagine most raspberry pis are being used for an embedded project and not as a desktop/web browsing computer.
Definitely.
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux!
"I use Linux as my operating system," I state proudly to the unkempt, bearded man. He swivels around in his desk chair with a devilish gleam in his eyes, ready to mansplain with extreme precision. "Actually", he says with a grin, "Linux is just the kernel. You use GNU+Linux!' I don't miss a beat and reply with a smirk, "I use Alpine, a distro that doesn't include the GNU Coreutils, or any other GNU code. It's Linux, but it's not GNU+Linux."
The smile quickly drops from the man's face. His body begins convulsing and he foams at the mouth and drops to the floor with a sickly thud. As he writhes around he screams "I-IT WAS COMPILED WITH GCC! THAT MEANS IT'S STILL GNU!" Coolly, I reply "If windows were compiled with GCC, would that make it GNU?" I interrupt his response with "-and work is being made on the kernel to make it more compiler-agnostic. Even if you were correct, you won't be for long."
With a sickly wheeze, the last of the man's life is ejected from his body. He lies on the floor, cold and limp. I've womansplained him to death.
Wow
Straight to writing prompts!
There are some OS like Alipine Linux that relay on the Linux kernel but don't use GNU userland.
Alpine uses musl libc + busybox as GNU replacements. They have less code base and they are more lighweight. GNU code is really old and some power users say the code is bloated and poorly maintained.
Not this year, but the next one
If not, surely the one after that.
Laughs in Linux web server market share.
Android sits on top of linux so linux is already by far the most widely used operating system in the world in consumer devices.
So, these statistics apparently come from StatCounter, a web analytics company. I know that this is probably the best way of collecting usage metrics for the entire Internet, but I think this is less efficient for counting Linux users - after all, I would say that the proportion of Linux users who also use content blockers is pretty high. Even if it weren't the case, most distributions ship with Firefox pre-installed, which automatically blocks trackers out-of-the-box.
Also, wouldn't this also count an embedded device with a WebView as a "Linux user"? For example, smart TVs have a web browser, and typically identify themselves with a "Generic Linux" user-agent.
I believe those "IoT" (I hate this term) devices count as "Other"
Year of the Linux desktop (as my daily driver) has been 2017 for me. Nowadays I dread having to work with Windows.
I like your thinking, I have a dual boot on laptop with windows 11 and LMDE installed, and its been a while since I booted to windows for personal use. Unfortunately for me I am still dependant of windows until Autodesk decides they will create the software I use for the linux environment as well. Until then, I'll rock on with personal "freedom" of linux, while I'm a slave to the corporate / microsoft
I still have a Windows 10 gaming machine that gets fired up occasionally to be honest. Originally it was a VM on my Linux system, but I had some issues with cache latency and anti-cheat, so I'd figured I need a dedicated system. Nowadays I game as much as possible on my Steam Deck, though. But I think in a year or two I will switch that Windows system over to Linux as well. Gaming on Linux has gotten that good.
Most things that go mainstream get ruined. So long as there are enough hardware choices for us, I don't feel too excited about linux going mainstream.
yeah honestly if Linux ever goes mainstream it will probably be some monkeys paw bullshit where some corpo makes a non-Foss data hungry distro or something and it's barely batter than windows or osx
That being said, I want Linux to be a good alternative and talk Microsoft down from the AI/ad/Onedrive in Windows cliff. It's getting exausting.
There is a chance it might become exponential for a bit. Its never gonna reach 50% any time soon, but a good percentage to actually make companies produce more often to it will definitely happen.
Just waiting for my AMD gpu to get here and I'm making the switch on desktop. Been running linux on my laptop for a year already. Few minor issues here or there, but for the most part been super reliable.
I have been using Linux on desktop full time since 2017 so this is really cool to see the populairty growth.
What if we count WSL and Android?
Counting Android is just lying. ChromeOS and WSL are a stretch, but you can make an argument for them.
"3 billion devices run Java"
Shudders
Linux kernel is Linux kernel. Few desktops run Android, though.
WSL definitely. It's a gateway drug I've peddled to many a developer.
This is why I had to switch. It was just too clunky to get CUDA and Pytorch and Tensorflow set up in Windows. In Linux, it was a total breeze.
Edit: And then I thought, "well, wouldn't it be great if I didn't have to use Windows to use Linux?"
Yup. First comes WSL, then comes a VM, then comes the good stuffs.
WSL on my work machine is a godsend. Otherwise I would not be able to tolerate the dev environment on windows.
For me its history repeats itself with dos and msdos.
I peddle that to my coworkers for no other reason than because I don't know how to deal with Windows garbage when they run into a problem. It's more for my sanity than anything else.
I decided years ago to switch next time I change OS. I'm not ever getting Windows 11, but I'm still too much of a lazy bastard to move off Windows 10 til it stops getting support.
Maybe a wild hair up my ass to do it early will hit, but at the latest I'll switch when 10 is dead. Or if I decide to finally build a new machine to update my poor dinosaur it'll have Linux day 1.
In the meantime I'll have to do some homework on proton and such to learn what I'm getting into with games so I can hit the ground running.
You a want a suggestion on how to make the dive easier ? Install Linux on a USB stick.
Any old 32GB USB thumb drive will do. Linux is way smarter in how it handles storage devices, so you can boot it from a USB stick and it will be just as happy as if you installed it on an SSD or HDD. All you have to do is tell the installer to use the stick as the destination when installing. Then you can boot from it whenever you want and try out Steam and Proton.
Heck, you can even take it with you and use it to boot other computers into you own pre-configured Linux.
Sorry if this is dumb, but does booting to Linux overwrite the current operating system, or can you just choose to boot to one or the other?
No , it doesnt touch your boot drive
@Lazylazycat@Anarch157a
Dual booting is an option
If you go with Ubuntu (best starting distro in my opinion) you will be able to install Linux alongside windows but there is a need for repartioning the drive.
@Lazylazycat
You can do what's called "dual boot" where both (or even more than 2) OSes are available and you pick which to use at boot. @Anarch157a
This is a trap. I dual booted and just never went back to windows. Wasted disk space for years
@luthis
I used it for gaming for years, but eventually I realized I was never switching back. I'd found games that ran native.
Pahaha I could see this happening to me.
Cool, thank you!
Linus Torvalds said somewhere, that in a weird irony, the reason why he made Linux in the first place was to use it on his desktop computer, yet desktop is the only market where Linux has not completely crushed all of its competition.
It is getting better. But most people CANT use it as a daily driver.
The unfortunate relaity is that MS rules the business space, and without native Outlook/Teams/Office is pretty tough. You can skimp by with browser based versions but still..That not gonna cut it for julie from HR i guess.
I have been seriously considering trying it at work. But I do admin work. So many of the tools I use are opensource. Will still need RDP though.
where Linux has not completely crushed all of its competition
...yet.
But the time is coming! in 90000000000000003, 90000000000000002, 90000000000000001...
And as bringus studios said windows on tuch screens suck and especially on mobile gaming devices
Linux still doesn't play nice with nvidia right? Last time I tried to daily drive it I had many issues with my dual monitor setup, where each monitor is a different resolution refresh rate and has gsync.
Has Wayland caught up to WDDM? Microsoft has been steadily improving multi monitor rendering, and this is the only reason I haven't switch yet
Nvidia driver still doesn’t work right with Wayland for me on my 3090. It caps at 60fps and has screen tearing. But switching to x11 on fedora 38 is easy enough when I want to game. There is an easy toggle on the Lock Screen to switch between Wayland and x11. For gaming x11 works just fine so far.
Personally I'm still on x11, and have had no issues big with the Nvidia drivers.
The only things are minor annoyances that come with the system being proprietary, ex. Driverctl entirely freezes up when trying to use on a Nvidia driver, and the driver won't let you live pass through a GPU like nouveau does (supposedly, it's too buggy so I've never been able to try)
It's way better now. Matter fact, I swapped out my 3070ti for a Radeon 6900xt and I wish I hadn't. Nvidia cards have so much more to offer and I never really hit major limitations in Linux. Ironically Ive hit more with the Radeon card.
Now that was quick, it's 4% now.
3% of desktops running Linux seems way to high. Where is this stat coming from?
FTA:
According to StatCounter, a web analytics company, by June 2023, Linux has reached a 3% market share in the desktop segment. This is a remarkable achievement considering its fierce competition from other operating systems.
Oh that's awesome. Also considering that a lot of linux users modify their browser agents to appear as windows for privacy.
Going to have a few more here when Windows 10 is no longer supported.
You mean 2032 when windows 10 enterprice iot ltsc
I used to have strong opinions on my OS. Then I got a job and all I use is outlook and excel. Now I don't care about my operating system. I'm not even sure which version of windows I'm running without checking. 10 I guess?
The true year of linux is not any specific year or a userbase percentage but when linux is widely preinstalled on consumer hardware without nerds needing to recommend to people to install it themselves
The steamdeck is the first step to that future
In my region (India), for a while, there seemed to be plenty of laptops available with Linux installed as an option. Then again in the last few years that seems to have withered down to almost none, sometimes even if the same model is available with Linux in some other regions. I am not sure what changed. Perhaps some deal with Microsoft. The good part is that the fact that they do support Linux elsewhere on the same laptop configuration generally means its easy to get it up and running yourself even if it does not come pre-installed.
In any case, as an old-timer, it's very impressive to me how much hardware Linux supports nowadays without any drama at all. Not to mention all the progress made in software especially in supporting Windows-only games, which is truly magical work by the Wine / Proton teams. As far as I am concerned the "Year of Linux Desktop" is here already since I can use it daily without missing absolutely anything at all from Windows.
That was the same in Brazil, where I live. This scared the beejesus out of Microsoft, so they created special, cheaper version for developing countries to counter it.
Honestly seeing the performance of the steam deck right now I'd probably buy a steam machine if a modern one came out
Steam Deck is the first taste I get of Linux. I've always had this fear of not being able to fully utilize a Linux OS due to my lack of skills in coding, but I find myself looking into it more ever since I got a Steam Deck. It may just be the right excuse I need to git gud in coding.
Edit: Thanks for the clarification and encouragement guys. I'm going to make it a mission to move to Linux ASAP since it feels like Windows has been really pushing the limits of privacy these days.
You don't gotta know how to code to use Linux. Maybe some basic skills in scripting will be useful as a tool but other than that it's more about learning how the system is laid out and where to go to do things. Just becoming familiar with doing things in a Linux environment
you don't have to know coding to enjoy Linux! it's got a reputation of being techie-oriented thanks to users of Arch Linux (a very techie distribution of Linux) dominating the Linux community, but there are plenty of distributions for everyday users, like Zorin OS and Elementary
You don't need coding, don't worry. :) It's useful to start learning the Linux command line however.
Ba-dum-tss
I'm sure people said the same about android
I get that SteamOS is an actual desktop distro, and that's closer to a daily driver than any android or bespoke *nix compatible SOC OS, but I doubt we'll see this spread from steamdeck to daily drivers, unless...
Unless linux can offer some feature windows/mac/ios do not, or at least market itself as doing so the way that Apple does, and get the overwhelming majority of tech consumers—who want nothing more than to keep up with the joneses and see the hardware specs numbers get bigger—to FOMO into it
Unfortunately that would conflict with the most enticing features it does have that no one else does: a code of ethics that are inherently anti-capitalist and anti-authoritarian. And honestly, who wants every Linux community, online or off, flooded with consumers who only care about the newest Feature™ and have no care about maintaining software freedom?
The only thing I see holding people back is software availability. If it could run adobe and games natively I don't see why anyone would want to pay for windows.
Software is definitely at the top of the list in terms of reasons. But the UX/UI definitely leaves something to be desired. I sigh heavily every time an application asks me to edit a text-based config file instead of giving me a GUI. It's an unnecessary, error-prone process and most importantly I have better things to do than read yet another page of documentation. That doesn't mean I want the config file to go away, it's still very useful for a variety of reasons. But I shouldn't have to mess around with it just to remap keys or other common tasks. Editing a config file should be a last resort for an end user.
You see similar problems when relying on the terminal. I don't like this idea of the end user being allowed to mess around without a safety net or some sort of guidance.
Right. I guess it doesn't help that I haven't used mint since it came out or when they switched to cinnamon.
adobe sucks for the same reasons I alluded to in my last paragraph. Money-grubbing corporation company hurts developers by patenting, trademarking, and copyrighting every minor feature in their programs to the point where FOSS alternatives have to bend over backwards to find ways to implement some of the same functionality. The problem isn't linux, the problem is adobe, the problem is profit-motive, the problem is capitalism.
IDK what distro you use, but I'm using Debian, and it does run games natively--nearly half of the ones I own on steam. Not all of them, but that's not Linux's fault, that's not Gnu's fault, that's not Debian's fault: they already offer compatibility layers and yet that's not good enough for everyone, and there's not much they can do beyond that outside of building a windows clone (or at least a partial clone) that would probably get them sued. To run natively, the devs would have to compile it to run on Linux and the ones that don't are making the choice to not do so--consciously or not, because of profits or not; it's hard to say why, even indie devs who make free games as a hobby sometimes choose not to, so it's not as easily dismissed with "because capitalism"
That all being said, the "software availability" criticism can cut both ways. I've found so many tools and utilities and apps and FOSS programs that are only made available for linux (unless one is willing to port them oneself), and there isn't an app or program I use everyday that I haven't found a linux-compatible alternative for. The glaring exception being games; to me that wasn't a huge deal, I'll bite that bullet because I'd rather go without kernel-privileged spyware for an OS--and the same for an anti-cheat engine--than play a triple-A on maximum graphics, play online multiplayers that require microsecond reaction time, or other such use cases where Proton actively hinders UX. Like I said, I'd rather have anti-authoritarian computers than worry about keeping up with the performance spec joneses
So... About 2010? When Android phones became widespread.
That's not a desktop.
Some would say desktops are not really consumer hardware anymore. Unfortunately. Sent from my useless black rectangle.
Androis uses linux, but that does not make it a Desktop Linux. It's not invalid, just out of scope to this metric. It's pretty simple.
Honestly whatever Linux Distro takes over will almost certainly be an Android or ChormeOS style bastardization where you can certainly see the lineage but it's so locked down and so far removed from the userland and tooling we expect that the whole point of "year of the Linux desktop" is lost
Yes and no. MacOS is basically the year of the Unix desktop for a while now and it’s still powerful and user friendly. Just fire up a terminal and it’s Unix. The benefit they have is hardware control so stuff just works and no driver hardware issues etc…
I agree. Linux is great when one has the time but not the money.
However for a system that just works - MacOS is one of the best bsd distros of all time esp on arm.
Sadly MacOS also comes with the downfalls of a closed and proprietary ecosystem.
@const_void
Have you used Linux lately? It really doesn't take any more time than anything else.
@FunkyClown
Yes, I have yet to have a zero-config experience even on vertical (but open) platforms like RasberryPi. What has been your experience?
GPU, Sound, WiFi Day 0 / 1 / 365 are not yet on par with MacOS or Win11, for me, anyway.
For me, it is important to recognize there is a larger time investment, otherwise how does it get better?
@const_void
Certainly, let's look for more ways to improve, but I've not had a need to fiddle with hardware configs in a while.
I count 2 personal laptops, a desktop, and a couple RasPis that just worked for me. One laptop had suspend issues in Windows that went away with Linux, which surprised the hell out of me.
My work laptop (Windows 11) needed GPU drivers reinstalled and increasingly acts up with docking and suspend.
Maybe I've lucked into good hardware or something.
I have on servers as I run my own lemmy server. I do like Linux desktop but macOS just works for my work and home laptop.
@FunkyClown Use what you like! I'm not here to proselytize.
I'm not arguing this part at all, I agree with you.
https://www.amazon.com/android-laptop-computer/s?k=android+laptop+computer
There is something of a blurry line between the two these days.
I get the "Android software isn't desktop software" argument, but then, I can also fire up up emacs in Termux on my Android phone, so that's kind of blurry too.
I remember Dell had an option back in 2013 on the XPS laptops...
I bought one in 2022.
The reddit API debacle sent me down a Lemmy, FOSS, Linux, privacy, hacker rabbit hole that I will hopefully and happily never have to leave. My eyes are opened to a better future. I’ll probably be duel booting windows for awhile still to keep up for my job, but I have been able to start transitioning away pretty easily thanks to the hard work of linux desktop devs. I am so grateful for the FOSS community and hope to contribute myself someday.
One of us, one of us ! Proxmox vaultwarden owncloud openmediavault docker-mailserver openwrt syncthing
why syncthing and not nextcloud
@jackpot @interdimensionalmeme Syncthing does not require a server and is much easier to set up from a user perspective.
no server, how does thay work
@jackpot You add every device to every other device and they connect directly to each other. If direct connection isn't possible (1 out of 10 times) then a relay server is used. The relays are provided by the community for free (I am running one).
Why a screwdriver and not a driver drill?
They may only use it for files and stuff and don't need a full cloud office suite
Mostly vibes
Syncthing seems really good at filesync and backup
Owncloud vs nextcloud
Nextcloud seems just a tad too popular
I've been mostly using Windows in a VM. I've not booted into my Windows partition for months now while sitting there almost untouched for 2 and an half years, and in one week or two I am getting rid of it. And with my Steam Deck coming I will install Windows on that on an SD Card, so in case I ever need a physical Windows system for something (likely some anti-cheat crippled game, or Microsoft Store exclusive game, or a software that for some reason doesn't work on Wine or in the VM) I have one ready.
It's good to have you here!
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The nasty truth is, most folks don't have a computer at home anymore. They do everything on their phone. The desktop is reserved for the office worker, which is itself a double-edged sword as the average office worker is so clueless about the computer they're sitting in front of that it could be replaced with a Linux desktop without them knowing anything other than "IT changed this and I don't like it" but the flip side of that is that there's a generation of IT people who learned their craft during the Ballmer era and are now in positions where they run the IT departments (and those who learned before and Linux kinda sucked back then). If they aren't too jaded to try something new they're too tired or too scared of the long term ramifications of trying something so radically different
As someone in the initial "hop around and pick up as many skills and resume line items as possible" phase of my IT career, I've already heard the exact reasons why Windows is still so prevelent "our company's client base is largely farmers. Sure you might have the skills to be a Linux admin but who would replace you whenever you move on? Good luck finding a good Linux admin around here at a rate we can pay!" "Windows Server is so much easier to deploy and troubleshoot without having to remember the commands, why would I bother learning Linux which is much harder to learn when employers around here aren't even looking for Linux experience" and even my friends who appreciate the geekiness and will openly lab out ideas in their free time for fun have to stay realistic about how stable or how janky every part of the given software solution is, plus the value of a support contract where you can answer the "why is this not fixed" questions with "I have a ticket in with the vendor"
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I dont think the universe will exist in 2024!(or 6.460263446 E+5814) years
Perhaps. But by then it certainly would be the year of the Linux desktop by then. What other operating system can handle years that long, starting from Jan 1, 1970 to Jan 1, 6.460263446E+5814. Linux, that's what.
Well what if I install Linux on my "free school Chromebook/Windows laptop/MacBook"?
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The crazy thing is more and more is purely being done through a web browser as time goes on, so it's becoming more and more possible to switch at the drop of a dime for people
so true. I use very few native applications and do 90% of everything in a browser. Notable exceptions: Libreoffice, FileZilla, Thunderbird and an image editor
I know it's not a very Linuxy distro, but Linux Mint (Cinnamon) is so easy to use, especially for Windows users. I've completely replaced Windows (and with better software), aside from using Windows for a few games that require it. I used Ubuntu, Suse, and Fedora long ago, but for me, Mint takes the proverbial cake.
Being a beginner distro doesnt make mint any less linuxy. Its probably the gest recommendation to convert people over from windows
Thank you. I appreciate your perspective. Using Linux again has been like a breath of fresh air, honestly. I just love how fast everything is. (Both my Windows and Mint boots live on their own M.2 drives, but Mint is so, so much faster.) And, unlike Windows, I don't feel like I have to jerry rig it to get things to work. I'm sure there are instances where that is the case, but I haven't run into them yet.
I feel like fedora would be good for Mac converts.
My favorite is fedora. Ubuntu second. It's alright but it's bloated. I have a thing for gnome.
Kde plasma and other kde stuff seems promising too.
Eventually id like to use arch.
The nice thing is that you can test out what you like about linux on mint cinnamon.
I installed it to get to know Linux "the soft way" and now love to use the terminal and got to know a buch of underlying concepts and whatnot. And I still use and love mint cinnamon.
A friend installed it and hasn't configured anything, just uses its GUI and is very happy that way.
So I think the creators really hit the balance of ease of use and possibility to tinker, while ensuring great stability ("it just works"). Big props btw.
I’m a linux user in the past 20years, and used to work with high maintenance / cutting edge distros like arch but grew tired and now use exclusively mint. Very stable, quiet, beautiful ux (tho cinnamon can look more modern).
I think many linux users go through a similar journey. In the beginning you feel a need to tweak everything manually, you take pride in it being difficult and you polish your dotfiles. Modifying the OS itself is 90% of what you use the computer for. You have strong opinions on tiling window managers. But then that becomes kind of old when you need your computer for actual tasks and work. You want to work on your actual projects, not configure irssi or ncmpcpp. The joy of tinkering with the OS itself transforms into seeing it as a tool to do interesting things with. Still, now you have an idea of how to fix things, where to look, but configuring Xorg is not the fun part of using a computer.
I just wiped Windows from my main PC the other day and put Linux Mint on there. Feels good man.
I remember in the beginning when leaving windows how quiet everything was. No notifications from windows about all kinds of shit, no ads and no interruptions. Have you noticed how calm it feels?
I've been trying to distance myself from large corporations. It's a slow process but I'm on the way.
Good on you mate, and welcome aboard!
Assuming it isn't you first time: there's a slight learning curve, but once you're passed a few months and you've resolved a few issues on your own you won't look back!
Look into KDE extensions to customize your desktop just the way you want it! My windows wobble around or fizzle out of existence when I close them. :)
My first introduction to Linux was back in College in 2005. I ended up doing it off college but I've messed with Linux on and off over the years. A few months back I put GalliumOS on my Chromebook and I've done all sorts of stuff with the Raspberry pi. I wouldn't say I'm proficient in the slightest and I know very few terminal commands but I think I can manage.
Oh, you'll be fine then. Haven't used Mint personally, but I've heard good things about it! Always reach out for help.
I've federated my server with a lot of Linux content so I'm pretty much surrounded on Lemmy.
Hello, I want you to know that Linux Mint has some issues:
Their site was hacked twice and a malware-infected ISO was being distributed.
They have a mixture of repositories where they get certain crucial things from Ubuntu's repositories; this can cause trouble.
That being said, you may want to give Ubuntu officials a try instead.
Ah yes, like last year. And the year before. And ...
Isn't that the joke tho?
At this rate, we'll be 30% in 300 years!
2323 - the year of Linux desktop.
this stuff is exponential, getting to 0% to 3% is harder than 10% to 30%
We used to be the 1%...
angry bernie sanders screaming
🍲
I love Linux but I've been hearing this song since 2002. I'd love for it to grow bigger but we should stop framing it as the year of Linux.
That's the joke, my guy. THIS TIME IS REAL!
I met the linux kernel on the bus station on my way home yesterday, and asked him about this and he answered with a simple "yes" and left.
Is this with or without the steam deck?
Not that I don't like the steam deck, I think it is really great for linux adaption. I am just curious.
This is in the StatCounter FAQ:
So it sounds like they're using the useragent to distinguish between mobile and desktop. So most likely, yes, steam decks would be counted as desktops, but only to the degree that they are used to browse the internet. I suspect most steam deck users don't do that, but I don't know, I don't have a steam deck.
That makes sense, thank you!
Wonder what dent the 40M rasberry pi's make, not to mention virtual desktops and the like! The number may be higher than 3%!
probably not much, since i imagine most raspberry pis are being used for an embedded project and not as a desktop/web browsing computer.
Definitely.
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux!
"I use Linux as my operating system," I state proudly to the unkempt, bearded man. He swivels around in his desk chair with a devilish gleam in his eyes, ready to mansplain with extreme precision. "Actually", he says with a grin, "Linux is just the kernel. You use GNU+Linux!' I don't miss a beat and reply with a smirk, "I use Alpine, a distro that doesn't include the GNU Coreutils, or any other GNU code. It's Linux, but it's not GNU+Linux."
The smile quickly drops from the man's face. His body begins convulsing and he foams at the mouth and drops to the floor with a sickly thud. As he writhes around he screams "I-IT WAS COMPILED WITH GCC! THAT MEANS IT'S STILL GNU!" Coolly, I reply "If windows were compiled with GCC, would that make it GNU?" I interrupt his response with "-and work is being made on the kernel to make it more compiler-agnostic. Even if you were correct, you won't be for long."
With a sickly wheeze, the last of the man's life is ejected from his body. He lies on the floor, cold and limp. I've womansplained him to death.
Wow
Straight to writing prompts!
There are some OS like Alipine Linux that relay on the Linux kernel but don't use GNU userland.
Today I learned
Alpine uses musl libc + busybox as GNU replacements. They have less code base and they are more lighweight. GNU code is really old and some power users say the code is bloated and poorly maintained.
Not this year, but the next one
If not, surely the one after that.
Laughs in Linux web server market share.
Android sits on top of linux so linux is already by far the most widely used operating system in the world in consumer devices.
So, these statistics apparently come from StatCounter, a web analytics company. I know that this is probably the best way of collecting usage metrics for the entire Internet, but I think this is less efficient for counting Linux users - after all, I would say that the proportion of Linux users who also use content blockers is pretty high. Even if it weren't the case, most distributions ship with Firefox pre-installed, which automatically blocks trackers out-of-the-box.
Also, wouldn't this also count an embedded device with a WebView as a "Linux user"? For example, smart TVs have a web browser, and typically identify themselves with a "Generic Linux" user-agent.
I believe those "IoT" (I hate this term) devices count as "Other"
Maybe next year! :)
Year of the Linux desktop (as my daily driver) has been 2017 for me. Nowadays I dread having to work with Windows.
I like your thinking, I have a dual boot on laptop with windows 11 and LMDE installed, and its been a while since I booted to windows for personal use. Unfortunately for me I am still dependant of windows until Autodesk decides they will create the software I use for the linux environment as well. Until then, I'll rock on with personal "freedom" of linux, while I'm a slave to the corporate / microsoft
I still have a Windows 10 gaming machine that gets fired up occasionally to be honest. Originally it was a VM on my Linux system, but I had some issues with cache latency and anti-cheat, so I'd figured I need a dedicated system. Nowadays I game as much as possible on my Steam Deck, though. But I think in a year or two I will switch that Windows system over to Linux as well. Gaming on Linux has gotten that good.
Most things that go mainstream get ruined. So long as there are enough hardware choices for us, I don't feel too excited about linux going mainstream.
yeah honestly if Linux ever goes mainstream it will probably be some monkeys paw bullshit where some corpo makes a non-Foss data hungry distro or something and it's barely batter than windows or osx
Like Android?
Getting to 50% might take a bit xD
That being said, I want Linux to be a good alternative and talk Microsoft down from the AI/ad/Onedrive in Windows cliff. It's getting exausting.
There is a chance it might become exponential for a bit. Its never gonna reach 50% any time soon, but a good percentage to actually make companies produce more often to it will definitely happen.
Just waiting for my AMD gpu to get here and I'm making the switch on desktop. Been running linux on my laptop for a year already. Few minor issues here or there, but for the most part been super reliable.
I have been using Linux on desktop full time since 2017 so this is really cool to see the populairty growth.
What if we count WSL and Android?
Counting Android is just lying. ChromeOS and WSL are a stretch, but you can make an argument for them.
"3 billion devices run Java"
Shudders
Linux kernel is Linux kernel. Few desktops run Android, though.
WSL definitely. It's a gateway drug I've peddled to many a developer.
This is why I had to switch. It was just too clunky to get CUDA and Pytorch and Tensorflow set up in Windows. In Linux, it was a total breeze.
Edit: And then I thought, "well, wouldn't it be great if I didn't have to use Windows to use Linux?"
Yup. First comes WSL, then comes a VM, then comes the good stuffs.
WSL on my work machine is a godsend. Otherwise I would not be able to tolerate the dev environment on windows.
For me its history repeats itself with dos and msdos.
I peddle that to my coworkers for no other reason than because I don't know how to deal with Windows garbage when they run into a problem. It's more for my sanity than anything else.
I decided years ago to switch next time I change OS. I'm not ever getting Windows 11, but I'm still too much of a lazy bastard to move off Windows 10 til it stops getting support.
Maybe a wild hair up my ass to do it early will hit, but at the latest I'll switch when 10 is dead. Or if I decide to finally build a new machine to update my poor dinosaur it'll have Linux day 1.
In the meantime I'll have to do some homework on proton and such to learn what I'm getting into with games so I can hit the ground running.
You a want a suggestion on how to make the dive easier ? Install Linux on a USB stick.
Any old 32GB USB thumb drive will do. Linux is way smarter in how it handles storage devices, so you can boot it from a USB stick and it will be just as happy as if you installed it on an SSD or HDD. All you have to do is tell the installer to use the stick as the destination when installing. Then you can boot from it whenever you want and try out Steam and Proton.
Heck, you can even take it with you and use it to boot other computers into you own pre-configured Linux.
Sorry if this is dumb, but does booting to Linux overwrite the current operating system, or can you just choose to boot to one or the other?
No , it doesnt touch your boot drive
@Lazylazycat @Anarch157a
Dual booting is an option
If you go with Ubuntu (best starting distro in my opinion) you will be able to install Linux alongside windows but there is a need for repartioning the drive.
Tutorial:
https://itsfoss.com/install-ubuntu-1404-dual-boot-mode-windows-8-81-uefi/
Thanks, I'll look into this.
@Lazylazycat
You can do what's called "dual boot" where both (or even more than 2) OSes are available and you pick which to use at boot.
@Anarch157a
This is a trap. I dual booted and just never went back to windows. Wasted disk space for years
@luthis
I used it for gaming for years, but eventually I realized I was never switching back. I'd found games that ran native.
Pahaha I could see this happening to me.
Cool, thank you!
Linus Torvalds said somewhere, that in a weird irony, the reason why he made Linux in the first place was to use it on his desktop computer, yet desktop is the only market where Linux has not completely crushed all of its competition.
It is getting better. But most people CANT use it as a daily driver.
The unfortunate relaity is that MS rules the business space, and without native Outlook/Teams/Office is pretty tough. You can skimp by with browser based versions but still..That not gonna cut it for julie from HR i guess.
I have been seriously considering trying it at work. But I do admin work. So many of the tools I use are opensource. Will still need RDP though.
...yet.
But the time is coming! in 90000000000000003, 90000000000000002, 90000000000000001...
And as bringus studios said windows on tuch screens suck and especially on mobile gaming devices
Linux still doesn't play nice with nvidia right? Last time I tried to daily drive it I had many issues with my dual monitor setup, where each monitor is a different resolution refresh rate and has gsync.
Has Wayland caught up to WDDM? Microsoft has been steadily improving multi monitor rendering, and this is the only reason I haven't switch yet
Nvidia driver still doesn’t work right with Wayland for me on my 3090. It caps at 60fps and has screen tearing. But switching to x11 on fedora 38 is easy enough when I want to game. There is an easy toggle on the Lock Screen to switch between Wayland and x11. For gaming x11 works just fine so far.
Personally I'm still on x11, and have had no issues big with the Nvidia drivers.
The only things are minor annoyances that come with the system being proprietary, ex. Driverctl entirely freezes up when trying to use on a Nvidia driver, and the driver won't let you live pass through a GPU like nouveau does (supposedly, it's too buggy so I've never been able to try)
It's way better now. Matter fact, I swapped out my 3070ti for a Radeon 6900xt and I wish I hadn't. Nvidia cards have so much more to offer and I never really hit major limitations in Linux. Ironically Ive hit more with the Radeon card.
Now that was quick, it's 4% now.
3% of desktops running Linux seems way to high. Where is this stat coming from?
FTA:
link to said source, which was in the article too
Oh that's awesome. Also considering that a lot of linux users modify their browser agents to appear as windows for privacy.
Going to have a few more here when Windows 10 is no longer supported.
You mean 2032 when windows 10 enterprice iot ltsc
I used to have strong opinions on my OS. Then I got a job and all I use is outlook and excel. Now I don't care about my operating system. I'm not even sure which version of windows I'm running without checking. 10 I guess?