There should be a term for people who never really returned from the pandemic's social isolation

classic@fedia.io to Showerthoughts@lemmy.world – 332 points –

People who haven't really resumed socializing at levels they used to, people who lost the capacity to regulate during interpersonal interactions, people who lost trust in others... I encounter lots of partial returners out there

102

I'll be honest, the lockdowns were awesome for me. "Now you bitches get to see how I live."

And the mad increase of online ordering, no contact pickup, and how people aren't crawling up your ass in line at the grocery store anymore? I could not have hoped for better.

Gods do I miss social distance lines

I miss having free time without the impending pressure to do things.

I'm health wise OK but my wife isn't for the rest of her life so I have to take precautions everywhere. I don't mind because I really don't like dealing with people anyway.

I do grocery pickup and go inside the store maybe four or five times a year now.

I haven't been to the inside of a restaurant in over three years, we use patios and sidewalk tables outdoors.

I specifically only ever use gas stations where you pay at the pump.

I haven't been to a mall or indoor space with people in years now.

I order everything else to my door.

I really don't miss dealing with people and now find it completely weird and disorienting to deal with people in public now.

now find it completely weird and disorienting to deal with people in public now.

This is what I've been hearing (and experienced). And that it's not a preference, it's more that the nervous system has struggled to recalibrate; or there was not enough opportunity for it to do so and that has led to a feedback loop

😌 It truly was the good old days when we just had a global pandemic to worry about.

Yeah it was certainly a net positive for some. Of course this post isn't a criticism of those that enjoyed it, or were unaffected by it. But there is a sort of lost generation group, so to speak, too. That includes younger people who feel maladroit or disconnected in a way that they tie to that period. People who already struggled to socialize and the period made it worse enough that they never recovered

Yeah my youngest kid was on the middle of her second school year when the lockdown started. She was so anxious around people when in person school started again. She's gotten somewhat better in the past couple years, but still not quite the same.

Yes some kids I know, it just sort of became how they identify: shy, more anxious

I go out but I do most of my big shopping as delivery. I just can't bring myself to go to Walmart very often. Most of my little shopping is at dollar stores. You know, the little things we used to get at what we used to call "milk stores."

The impostor syndrome and such are crazy though, when working remotely from my dust and cockroaches box.

Small rant incoming:

I'm actually still stuck inside more than in the Pandemic. Essential worker so I still went outside daily until i never got my energy back after having covid for the 5th? time.

About 3 years of doctors not really knowing how to treat it and encouraging me to keep trying what i could each day, which led to me basically destroying my body, until i got one of my countries leading experts who immediately told me to take bed rest the second i feel tired.

Since my immune system is basically gone i got a bunch of other illnesses some of which will probably never go away since the meds only alleviate the symptoms.

Upside is that I've been trialing a bunch of expirimental treatments for the specialised clinic that is opening soon, some of which had small but immediate effects. So at least those that will get diagnosed in the future don't need to wait as long hopefully.

I'm glad to hear you live in a country where you can get more specialized support! I hope the new treatments pan out

I got really lucky to get the right expert as my new doctor, since the upcoming clinic would only treat about 1000 patients a year with an estimated 60k waiting for treatment.

I got ME/CFS (closely related to long COVID) that first started in early 2020, so this is very relatable. As everyone was going back to normal I was getting worse. Do you mind if I ask what had a good effect? The only thing I've found that helps (other than rest and pacing) is nicotine patches for the brain fog.

Currently seeing some decent effects from low dose naltrexon, although it seems to shift my energy more than it increases it. The further I'm from having taken my daily (evening) dose the better i feel, but in the mornings I'm extra tired and can't really focus my eyesight.

But it's hard to separate the side effects from the multiple other treatments I'm building the dosages for.

Ah yeah, I've heard some promising things about LDN. My doctor won't prescribe it for me though. There's apparently a different version of it that's being researched but it's early days. Good luck with all.

I call them "my people."

I call us Happy! thank god for home office

I'm convinced anyone who wants to go back to the office just wants to get away from their family.
WFH is the way. I technically get off in 8 minutes but already shirtless on my back patio chillin. No commute, no dress code

During the pandemic I moved to the country, stopped using social media, and got a remote working job. I think the people who used to know me assume I'm dead.

I miss the pandemic. Socially isolating meant I got to spend more time with my kids and extended family than I had in decades due to limited sports and other activities. And even work, while it didn't stop (luckily), provided more valance - especialy more than now.

It’s amazing to see a perspective from such a different place on the spectrum. Spending more time with the kids is fine but watching them stagnate with little social life was really hard. I think it’s highly dependent on their age. Under 3: pure bonus for the kid because the parents are home more. 3-5: terrible for the kid because this is the time they’re supposed to be developing socialization with friends at preschool/school. 5-10: bummer but they got through it. My son got hit right in the 3-5 period. His social skills and life have still not fully cleared the cloud this put over him. Daughter was in the 5-10 and was able to get something out of remote school and limited access to her friends. Son got a raw deal.

It was also just physically so trying. You know how your day just goes differently when the kids are sick and don’t go to school? You have to attend to them the whole day through to make sure they are okay and not just stagnating on the couch and you can’t necessarily leave the house or do errands etc during the day like you normally would. It was like that, but for over a year, with lots of added stresses involved from the pandemic itself.

A scarring time. My job gave me something to focus on from home. But my wife, who is a full time parent, says she has never recovered.

I’m not placing trust in anyone who sold us out to corporations and fascists a second time

I'm in this post and I don't like it. I used to be social as hell, now I'm almost a hermit.

Same, and honestly it eats me away inside

Were you in any particular transition during that period? Like high school to college or 20s to 30s? I wonder if that worsened the impact for people, if the social isolation happened to time with important life transitions

I think a lot of people were waiting to see the results of the election. And COVID is still very real - immunocompromised people (e.g. elderly) will need to start taking vaccines twice rather than once per year due to recent mutations (except... hrm, I dunno if RFK will "allow* such, but at least that was the most recent guidance), plus everyone could get long COVID every time they get it despite the vaccine.

The pandemic changed our world, and it's nowhere close to being over.

Also, inflation, so less disposable income to "go out" with.

There's no "over". Coronavirus is here to stay now, just like the flu. Thankfully it has become a lot more benign as it has mutated, and we know a lot more about it and have vaccines now, so it's pretty manageable.

I hope we continue to manufacture vaccines in the future, rather than e.g. outlaw them. I wonder what would happen if government research into which strains are most prominent (needed to make the vaccines every year/season) were to be halted? Private companies may have to pick up the slack, like maybe you'll get your choice of a Google vs. Microsoft vs. Apple vs. Facebook vaccine? Maybe, if every accusation really is a confession, this time there really will be trackers embedded in them?

I say all that to emphasize that what "we" (all) know is in flux - e.g. if you were to ask RFK what he knows vs. the common man on the street vs. a scientist - and what will happen is heavily dependent upon the current status quo remaining in place. Which seems unlikely.

But maybe RFK will say something to anger Trump and be gone in a week or two, like so many before him. Who knows?

It’s benign in the sense of fatalities, but the lingering health issues from it seem more and more common now. I even know someone who is dealing with long term health symptoms that began right after dose 2 of the vaccine (I’m not an antivaxxer but this correlation is hard for them to ignore as they face their daily struggle to be the person they were before).

It's not benign. Long covid can be and often is permanent. You get that shit, and everything you care about in your life is now a distant second place.

What you're calling "benign" is everybody consciously choosing to ignore it, and act like anyone smart enough not to is somehow weird and wrong.

Coronavirus is here to stay now, just like the flu.

By 'the flu', do you mean that virus where one entire strain was eradicated by masking and distancing over the winter?

THAT flu? The one with the strain that died out after trivial effort? Do you want to use it as an example of some perennial curse, or are you saying that we can eradicate covid again with similarly trivial effort?

It's pretty clear that they meant "a constant factor in our daily lives", you really don't need to be this hostile.

I think their point is that, with effort, it can be become a thing of the past.

However, so many are unwilling to put forth the effort because it's either too inconvenient or they've been brainwashed into believing it's a hoax.

Maybe people who lived in red states developed this notion that no one put in the effort but where I live we certainly did on a large scale and it did not eliminate the virus. Other cultures who already had a healthy practice of masking when sick still got hit with COVID. This notion that we could have eliminated it if people had just put in a tiny effort… I don’t know where y’all are getting that from.

I think we could eliminate it if literally everyone put in a fairly minor effort - getting vaccinated, masking, washing hands, avoiding gatherings for a while.

Even in countries where the culture is to wear a mask when you are sick I guarantee significant minority selfishly ignores those practices - more than enough to spoil it for everyone else.

Also, masking helps lessen but doesn't prevent the spread in all cases. Many of the cultures that mask when sick do so because they are going to work or are out and about while sick. The more time you spend with someone, the higher the chances of transmission even if you are both masking.

If we could get 100% of people to do anything then the world would be a utopia tomorrow. Spoiler: that isn’t going to happen.

To keep it on point here, /u/Anticorp got yelled at above for saying that COVID is here to stay, as if this is some apathetic, defeated attitude.

I would posit that any hopes and dreams predicated on getting literally everyone to do literally anything are laughably naive and not even worth discussing.

Why are you hooting as if we’ve eliminated the flu? Strains come and go. The flu is very much here to stay and continues to kill people every year. We also masked and distanced for a very long time and didn’t eliminate COVID. I am struggling so hard to see what your point could possibly be other than to take a shrill tone with this person for having the audacity to face reality.

We had a name before the pandemic... It's "introvert."

I'm more referring to people who aren't so much choosing to isolate. Not a preference, but a loss of the capacity or opportunities to socialize

That happens to almost anyone on a long enough timeline. You have to let yourself be uncomfortable while you rebuild those social skills.

Absolutely. It comes down to exposure therapy, basically. Reacclimation.

Yeah, because every job is made remote for introverts.

I've had bad anxiety my entire life, but I never felt like I really had social anxiety before the pandemic. Now I have a hard time talking to pretty much anyone unless they talk to me first.

My socializing during the pandemic was more or less the same as before or after the pandemic. I am very sensitive to sound, a introvert, a huge nerd and don't care for most of the topics "normal" people talk about like sport. I have no reason to go outside, I don't like to be at places with many people and I don't any knowledge in topic that can be used for smalltalk.

Due to this the biggest part of my social bubble is located all over the world and we communicate purely online. It was called lockdown but for me it was just a normal Tuesday.

I am quite similar and it turns out I'm on the autistic spectrum. I was excited to discover this as it explained sooo much about myself. Just my 2 cents

I wouldn't necessarily blame your niche interests or anything else like that. There's lots of people this applies to who just forgot how to socialize. I would put myself in that category. I like sports and many other popular things, and I used to be reasonably easy to talk to but ever since covid I'm considerably more awkward in social situations.

Someone I haven't seen in two years will ask what I've been up to and my mind just goes blank. It's not that I've been sitting at home doing nothing the whole time but for some reason none of the things I could talk about come to me in the moment. It's a strange thing to feel yourself being socially inept in a way that you didn't used to be. I've gotten better but it's still weird a lot of the time.

This is exactly the type of thing I was reflecting on. Have you also found yourself having a lower tolerance for stressors?

Yeah I would say so. I am pretty laid back by nature and there are some minor things that impact my mood in a negative fashion more than they used to. That could be getting older in general but I do think being away from those kinds of things for a while has made them harder to ignore.

When talking about people with ASD that's called unmasking and is one of the main goals of therapy.

Assuming ASD stands for antisocial disorder, I didn't realize there was therapy for it. I thought it was essentially just "I don't like those people, and I don't like THOSE people either......actually, I don't like most people. I'm just going to keep to myself."

Now, maybe I'm wrong, and ASD stands for something else.

Autistic Spectrum Disorder.

We don't have a natural ability to infer emotions from body language, for a start. We have to learn to actively pay attention to it. Replacing natural instinct that a neurotypical person has with an active thought process is tiring, for a start.

Add to that most ASD people have trouble with emotional control, need to actively think about their own facial expressions, and often have social quirks that are unacceptable like nail biting which must be actively repressed... and being around others for hours on end is exhausting.

On top of this, most ASD people also have ADHD, and in the modern open office environment between the social aspect and never ending barrage of distraction, and the workplace is hostile, actively hostile to folks with ASD.

This combination of factors leads to having no where to unmask and relax until they get home. When they do, they are so exhausted from being something they are not for 10 hours (commute has to be included as its all public space) that when they get home they just shut down. They don't call family or friends usually, they don't get things around the house done. They have to turn off and try to re-energize themselves for doing it all again tomorrow.

I know all this as I am ASD and ADHD

Being able to work from home has brought actual balance to our lives as we can unmask the moment the camera goes off, we have rooms at home where we can close the door and remove distractions (well except mandatory work chats, but its a matter of muting that for focus) and at the end of the day we still have energy for our actual lives. In other words, this is the true work-life balance that I had always heard of but never truly felt I had.

Well, working from home it still requires discipline to optimize distractions, but it's at least possible.

Absolutely, especially with ADHD in the mix. When demand aversion kicks in, your brain literally tries to undermine any attempt to focus unless you can force it to cooperate. Music usually helps me with this.

If it makes you feel better, they aren't hostile to you for your conditions. They're hostile to EVERYBODY. The world is just filled with shitty people, who enjoy making others lives awful. It's also full of people who are just looking for every easy advantage and scheme the system has to be taken advantage of...even at the expense of others. They aren't hostile because of ADHD and ASD. They're hostile because you exist, and therefore maybe can be taken advantage of. And if you can't be taken advantage of, then you're of no use to them.

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Lockdown was a blast! I was paid to do what I always wanted; stay home and do whatever I felt like and not worry about other people.

Now that it's over, I haven't been able to keep a steady job. I've lost all the support I built up for myself in social situations.

Hikikomori

Maybe if we smushed the two together and made up a word? Like hikicovidomori

Yeah lockdown was living my best life. At least I managed to get a fully remote job with a small company several states away.

Partial returners seems like a good name for it.

I was never really social to begin with, so I just resumed being my normal introverted self.

Yeah. That's me. Or anyone I know, really. Sure cities are back to pre-pandemic chaos, but those are other people.

I choose to work from the office on most days. I use public transit. I go to the gym. I'm not locked in, but ...

  • after-work drinks
  • meetups
  • catch up with a friend at the pub
  • date night
  • clubs
  • partys

That's a distant past. And i don't miss it, really.

Ok, I do miss socializing, the good parts: Crack some jokes, have some small-talk, feel part oof a group of friends.

But i don't miss it enough to endure that bad parts: Forcing oneselves into conversations with strangers, "networking", drinking a beer alone in a corner of some event, going out to bar where over your overpriced drink you'll accept that you'd rather be in your living room. Bars and night clubs are a weird concept (unless you are in your twenties and really enjoy the scene): You realistically only talk the person you came with, but they can't hear what your are saying since it's loud and crowded. There may be music, but unless you came to dance, you probably have a Spotify play list you'll enjoy more. In better quality.

Where do you encounter these people that haven't returned from isolation?

I know a person that had been in hospital most of their life so basically a 20 year covid-type of situation but for their own health. They are 24 now, and trying to socialize still even when they didn't learn as a child-teen. I'm trying to help him but don't know what to do since he's such a unique case

Avari.

The unwilling elves who refused the great journey!

those left behind

No.....he means the ones just staying at home. Not the ones covid killed.

"he means the ones just staying at home. Not the ones covid killed. "

as far as I can tell, yes.

you call people killed by covid "those left behind"?

Do you not? Or is this like the sixth sense sort of thing, where they just kinda hang around for you?

......wait, am I bruce willis?

judging by your username, you share certain similarities with Bruce Willis.

and he seems to forget who he is these days, so yeah you might actually be Bruce Willis.

no, I've never heard covid victims called "those left behind", that is a rather morbid bit of prose from your part of the world.

Hermits

I feel like the weird one out because lockdown was absolute hell for me. I need my community and my people. I go crazy being stuck inside a small apartment with nothing to do. I'm not fully an extrovert, I do need my alone time, but I also need to be with people I love.

Yeah, I can tell that I get a little weird if I'm alone too long. And the time it takes is shorter since covid. I'm assuming from too much time alone during the peak period

Some lost their ability to regulate from everybody else being critically stupid, some see everybody still being dumb about it and aren't gonna play such a transparently stupid game. Some got long covid, the worst outcome of all, the thing you wear a mask to stop.

Multiple causes.

Informed? Did the infection rates start dropping lately?

Yes, it started dropping years ago and is now less than 1% of peak infection rate. It is endemic now and treated like the flu. Keep living in a bubble for the rest of your life if you want, I guess.

Fun fact(s): The COVID strains that were active at the beginning of last year were actually more infectious and deadlier than the original COVID strains. The only reason we didn't hear much about them is because, despite RFK Jr's beliefs, the vaccines work. 443 people died from COVID in the US during the first week of November, even with the vaccines. There were about 15 deaths from the flu in that same week.

There are plenty of immunocompromised people who can't get vaccinated who can no longer be in public without risking death now that COVID is endemic.