Mazda’s DMCA takedown kills a hobbyist’s smart car API tool
arstechnica.com
Mazda is angry a customer used an API in a manner they couldn't control. You can read the DMCA takedown notice here.
Mazda is angry a customer used an API in a manner they couldn't control. You can read the DMCA takedown notice here.
Just start charging exorbitant amounts of money for every API call; problem solved! —Spez
(Also: Fuck Spez)
Sadly it would end the same like with reddit or netflix: The loss due to the amount of pissed-off and leaving customers is obviously way less than the gain due to the ignorant or root-problem-agnostics. Makes me a sad panda...
This will be over soon. When the EU's Data Act comes into force, car manufacturers will be obliged to allow access to vehicle data.
Also isn't it Mazda's fault for creating an API that anyone can access and get information from? Someone in Mazda IT is probably frantically looking for the email chain where he was told to "just make it public" so our outside analysts can use it.
I think yes, assuming nobody grabbed an API key out of the Mazda app or something.
Quite often these integrations just take the authentication token or cookie during OAuth or the normal login process.
Actions like that would be impossible with WEI.
Exactly! I love Google.
This is a joke
A huge project at my work got pushed back because a company we are working with decided to make the API public...
Isn't that a good thing?
It's a good thing it is getting changed, not a good thing it got pushed back farther because of them. Already been pushed back 4 months
In Europe.
And if available in Europe, do you think that information will not appear elsewhere? Mazda is not going to create a separate API for them alone.
Content providers already block access to content based on locale. It won't be hard to have a flag in the API that turns off functionality based on the callers location.
They'll always find new ways to fuck you over
And then they'll get sued, when that leads to cars getting hacked. I don't know if that's gonna work out in the long run. Car companies are likely to band together to prevent this or make lawful exceptions for themselves in the space.
This doesn't make any sense. API requests are not proprietary.
Yep, this looks like a blatant abuse of the DMCA by Mazda. Either Mazda is engaging in scummy behavior or they need better lawyers. Either way, it makes me want to never buy another Mazda.
I’ve already added them to my internal list of bad actors I won’t work with.
That doesn't stop anybody. Just this morning Amazon sent out a wave of C&Ds because people were using their public APIs to access "proprietary data."
So, they mad b/c of an internal skill issue.
O they mad
"How dare you use our public APIs that we made available publicly for others to use!"
looks sternly at Amazon
Then why is it available?
"Move fast, break things, lawyer up"
Move faster than the law, then use your loot to do whatever you want
Because fuck you, that’s why it’s available.
Hahahahha holy shit how did that get past legal
It reads to me like: "this app does the same thing as our app therefore they must have copied our code; there is no other possible explanation". Cool story, bro. I hope the developers will fight back but that takes lots of money.
The article states this was a hobby of his and he won't be defending it as it would entail financial cost of mounting a legal defense.
There goes that rigged system again.
So what? They have more money, they decide what is legal or not.
I didn’t really get it until I read the article (shut up 😃), but it seems pretty clear that Mazda’s primary concern here appears to be access to this API through Home Assistant cutting off future (maybe current) owners’ requirement to subscribe to their app for features.
man, remember when you could buy a car and it wasnt connected to the internet?
Remember when you could buy a car and it was yours?
John Deere doesn't
Remember when you could download a car?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Pepperidge farms remembers.
What a load of horse shit.
Just like with hue, and Chromecast, and Android TV, and a million other smart devices, it's perfectly lawful (and IMHO necessary) for individuals to launch their own integrations with their the products they own. People don't need their bullshit "service", and by buying the vehicle they have a legally protected right to alter it and it's software for their own use.
That they bullied this guy into taking down the repo despite what the law protects him to do is disgusting, if not also predictable.
I hope someone with the time and resources goes to the matt with one of these shit companies and make them own up to their exploitative practices.
I for one will be altering my Mazda how I want and sharing my alterations to get around their shit subscription model with everyone I can.
Then charge me 5€/month and give me an access token. Fuckers.
But likely, having whatever data the app collects is deemed more valuable than that.
God forbid. Wouldn't want users to find any of this useful in novel ways. Because that never makes a product popular or anything. And Mazda might lose hundreds of dollars or something. Gasp.
Pretty soon we'll have to subscribe to our car's trunk.
BMW on the line for you, sir.
2018-2021
https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/amazon-key-in-car-delivers-right-to-your-cars-trunk/
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/28/amazon-ends-service-that-delivers-packages-to-prime-members-cars.html
How far can americans go in their struggle against small mailboxes? I mean, what other solution is there, with their huge, largely-empty front lawns, than to use a car to accept the packages?
Eh, it's preferable when companies go ahead and self-identify as being comprehensively dog shit and worthless.
Just another company to throw on the list who will never receive a single dollar of my money as long as I live.
Won't lose a wink of sleep over it. Good luck, Mazda.
What do you do when they all do it, though?
Buy a dumb car again, as long they're still around 😊
Motorcycle?
SYM MaxSym 600i ABS, this 565cc maxi-scooter is the first to launch from a green light in cities and has nothing to be ashamed of on highways since it can do 160 kph with some spare power still remaining.
I'll move closer to the city and walk or use public transit.
Frankly, that's unlikely. The free market will always make sure someone is there to disrupt, and I'll always support the disruptor.
It's already happening lol. There are no privacy-friendly modern cars.
Here's a citation for your statement, mate.
No clue why people are down voting you for doing what I was too lazy to.
🤷♂️ I'm just trying to spread some knowledge to anyone who missed that report from Mozilla.
I supported the disruptor to cable so hard they became the thing they disrupted and now I don’t have netflix
Really? The most expensive Netflix plan available is still 1/5th what the TV portion of my cable bill was...
I still have it, but honestly probably not for long because I just don't use it. Sail the high seas and don't support the culture-destroying shit!
Perhaps for chapter consumer products, but starting a car company that produces normal mass produced cars is not really done overnight. And Tesla produces the most shite cars of all of them only really disrupting by cutting out customer service at this point.
You're probably referring to that study showing Tesla with 250 problems-on-delivery per 100 cars... I don't own a Tesla or know anyone who does, but it's worth noting the vast, vast majority of those problems are cosmetic, and fixed before the car leaves the customer service facility. If you see the graphic for that study, there are some pretty huge names way down on the list just above Tesla - and those are not mostly cosmetic issues.
No it was in Norway. Tesla sold 21303 new cars in Norway in 2022. Total new car sales for Norway in 2022 was 174329. Tesla Model Y is the most sold new car in Norway and Tesla is the largest brand. Totally electric cars is 79.3% of all new cars (Norway has pretty generous tax incentives on electric cars making even high end Teslas pretty cheap)
83 out of 168 cases that ended up in "consumer court" (that is they have not been resolved without mediation) was Tesla. These cases are mostly not cosmetic but more serious issues that has not been resolved.
Edit: you can argue that with more sold cars they get more complaints. But Tesla has approximately 12 % of the market but 49% of the cases so they are over represented in Norway at least
It might be it's because of Teslas business model. They protract the cases, and gamle on it not going to mediation. (Customer gives up) and that the US head office is required to evaluate the case, rather than the local or national dealer. In either case I don't want shite US late stage capitalist business practices in Norway so Tesla can fuck right off.
Careful, now... We're not allowed to say that a higher percent of bad things are the fault of a tiny percent of the total group of actors, even if the data is objectively true! 😉
Disrupters like Tesla?
If ironic, well done. If serious, I’m sorry for you.
It's best to remain ambiguous.
You're right, Tesla has certainly been a disruptor in some ways - nobody could argue with that...
I assume you're baiting an argument of some sort, based on experience with the maturity level around here...
When that happens, someone appears to make their version of the product without it.
That's, that's simply not true
Yep. I wouldn't want to make it into a list but bmw and mazda are already on my blacklist
Yep Mazda is my first auto maker blacklist... I've got Sony at the top from numerous incidents around 2004-2006, and Google since 2016. (obvs can't get 100% away from Google because they keep buying companies, but I only need to get rid of my Nest and Fitbit shit to be completely google-free!)
DMCA is broken, intellectual property is a scam.
It seems to be working exactly as intended. It protects the OP of the rich while not giving a shit about the poor.
Intellectual "property" shouldn't exist. The property system was designed to solve the scarcity of physical goods. Information doesn't have this problem since it can be replicated forever as long as you have a medium to copy it to. That's why you can't own information. Once created, it lives its own life, whenever you like it or not.
I don't get it. People are working for free to add a feature to your product which might move more people to buy said product. Make users who use external features acknowledge some waiver that your company is not responsible for damage. If it turns out to be really good, you can fork it, hire the original inventor and turn it into a paid product. Isn't that a risk-free win? Am I missing something?
Most likely they do not appreciate people adding features to their products for free because these are features that could be sold on future models. This is why right to repair is so important.
Or, it's something they want you to subscribe to. I bought a Subaru, and only later found out the only way to use remote-start was by subscribing to roadside assistance and using an app on my phone.
On the bright side, I can start my car from anywhere in the world...
They probably want you to pay a subscription for extra features and homeboy went and made it free for life.
Well then, anyone have this code archived? Time to make sure it makes it to torrent networks. The only way we render the DMCA irrelevant is to make it useless.
Make sure to keep the checksums in place.
Without a somewhat centralized codebase, development will be an absolute nightmare. Old versions floating about with bugs or so old there has been breaking changes in the API, and did you make your additions to the latest version...no wait, 4 people made different additions around the same time, but each released their own versions, and they were not based on the same version either. With no single place to report and collect fixes and development it'll be a fragmented pile of crap real fast.
Maybe host somewhere in Russia or Finland/Sweeeden.
What a fucking joke. Let me tell you, these car OEMs are fucking SHIT at API development in general. Shit, it's a fuckin miracle when they actually have APIs. A major OEM (won't mention as it's work related for me) just recently published their APIs and MY GOD are they fucking trash, inconsistent, and throw 5xx for fucking any reason (this is absolutely NOT a small or new OEM by any fucking means... Luxury brand)
This is simply a shit company trying to punish people because of their own incompetencies when it comes to API design and management. Oh and just anti-consumer in general, just like how they attack right-to-repair at every fuckin turn possible.
FUCK capitalism, it's fucking broken; instead of ensuring that competition drives innovation we instead get.... LESS control LESS features for MORE across the board (subscriptions, anyone?). Anyone talking about the free market's inherent innovation is a FUCKING GODDAMN MORON
Well, without the free market innovation, I guess you'd just be complaining about the quality of your horse and cart on the way to church instead
So .. is there a copy of the repo left that we can replicate endlessly?
If you make copies, make a torrent file and share that as well.
Should be legally protected and these companies should receive heavy fines for false DMCA claims
Call me crazy but you think there'd be some kind of reviewing body that reads dmca claims heard by both parties prior to entering a court room rather than people with money fucking the average person.
I'll be buying a new car soon. Fuck Mazda.
Never buy Mazda. Gotcha.
Never buy car works better
Well I'm already living across the street from a subway station and don't even want to own a car. This was more based on principle than anything.
I already thought Mazda sucked and made shit products, so it’s nice that they confirmed it’s not just their products that are mediocre at best, it’s their whole business.
Edit: Turns out my long standing perception of Mazda is woefully incorrect. I could have sworn they had a string of bad reliability issues in the early 2000’s and 2010’s but it turns out that’s just plain wrong. Couldn’t tell you what I was thinking of. Leaving the OG comment to laugh at my mistake.
They can still eat a bag of dicks though for this DMCA abuse though.
Can you elaborate? All the people I know had good experiences with mazda
Yea, not sure what hes comparing Mazdas to.
As someone who's turned wrenches since the late 70's, Mazda is in my top 3 for reliability: Honda, Toyota, Mazda, in that order.
Every other brand you get to fix the same thing more than once, have weird failures, mixture of Metric and ACU bolts (looking at you American Manufacturers), over-designed systems making trouble-shooting and repair more difficult and costly (like VW tying the door lock ECU to the air conditioning), crappy electrics (Chrysler/Dodge wins on this one, they're almost as bad as as 70's British car with Lucas electrics), weird and problematic mixtures of vendor sources (again, Chrysler, since the days they bought AMC they've continued to have hodge-podge vehicles, like the Chryslers with Mercedes diesel engines, but modified so they don't always use the exact same parts), etc, etc.
I could go on for days listing each manufacturer's pain points.
Far less so with the 3 Japanese listed. For the most part, their vehicles are all their own (some exceptions with Mazda when they were owned by Ford, and Toyota had some GM ties over the years), and even those cars are more Japanese design/engineering/manufacturing than Big 3.
Tried to search up what I could have sworn was bad quality control problems. Turns out I don’t know what the hell I was thinking.
I appreciate your response. With the amount of negativity, doomers and tankies in the fediverse i have started to get suspicious about people.
I have a Mazda6 estate 2.2 diesel and pretty happy with it. Compared to other cars in the same class it's no worse regarding reliability as far as I could research
This is like sueing someone for knocking on your door. Just lawyers and business vampires tripping over their own dicks.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Before last week, owners of certain Mazda vehicles who also had a Home Assistant setup could create some handy connections for their car.
In a Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) notice sent to GitHub, Mazda (or an authorized agent) alleges that Rothweiler's integration:
Frequent Home Assistant contributor J. Nick Kolston, or bdraco on GitHub, was the first of many commenters confused by Mazda's code claims.
Reverse-engineering for interoperability, such as exposing the Mazda app's particulars to Home Assistant, could be considered a fair use exception to the DMCA, as explained by the EFF.
Integrations involving other car brands, including Subaru, the Nissan Leaf, and Tesla's Wall Connector, are still present.
"We genuinely believe there is a common ground between us and Mazda when it comes to enabling the owners of their cars to explore the possibilities of their own data," Home Assistant founder Paulus Schoutsen wrote.
The original article contains 523 words, the summary contains 146 words. Saved 72%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Bad bot
Alleges that Rothweiler's integration what? You've cut off an important part of the story.
lol read the article then?
What difference would that make to a bot that cuts off an important part of the story?
You can read the article on your own if there is an issue and show a little appreciation for someone doing their best to make a helpful app.
Or I could let them know that the bot has a problem, and hopefully stop the issue from happening in the future.
Ignoring an issue because you want to be nice doesn't help anyone.
“Bad bot” isn’t an attempt to be helpful. It’s a personal attack against the creator.
Bad bot is how you report an issue with a bot on Reddit. As far as I know, it's the same here too. There's no attack on the creator here.