Now, I'm all for the freedom of defending your country... But am I the only one thinking that this is presented in a bit too much of a good light? Like, what is the title supposed to make me feel?
If the nationalities were reversed, would this have been posted here still?
I genuinely thank you for sharing this info, but I can't help feeling uncomfortable reading about atrocious killing devices in a technology thread.
I'm right there with you. My first reaction to the video in the article was "well that's terrifying".
Is it as terrifying as Russia invading your country?
Both is terrifying, I rather not have the option to pick.
Yeah I defend Ukraine against Russia, but war is war, and war never changes. It’s been 2 years of full fighting and I can’t pretend to be okay with a continuous war even against Russia and Putin who are awful.
So you would rather Ukrainians lay down their weapons and we'll have 20 years of Bucha and Holodomor, again? I somehow doubt you would prefer that to continued warfare, more likely thinking "war is awful" is taking precedence over "not fighting it would be a hell a lot worse". But that's why wars are, by and large, fought: Because people think that not doing it would be worse. Some because they're nuts, some, like Ukrainians, because they're spot-on.
The only party which can lay down their weapons and not get absolutely kicked in the face for it is Russia. Every minute it continues is on them.
If the nationalities were reversed, would this have been posted here still?
If Russia was illegally invaded & genocided by Ukraine as a consequence for wanting to become democratic and joining the West, then yes, people would rather root for Russia instead.
If Russia don't want their men to get "atrociously killed", then they can just fuck off back into their own country.
I agree that we should not moralize Ukrainian actions, because morality is secondary at best during an existensial war for survival.
But upholding the Geneva conventions is not about morality. It's about trying to prevent the worst and most horrific actions and outcomes that happen during war.
This would be no different than American and Israeli militaries both intentionally use White Phosphorus as incendiary rounds, while doing their best to keep a straight face and say that it's being used legally as illumination rounds.
Is Ukraine using this strictly under the legally defined laws of war? I don't know.
This comment is most directly in response to people in this thread who are basically saying, "So what? Who cares if it's used illegally as an incendiary round?"
I think you're confused. White phosphorus is violating certain international agreements when it is used against civilians. Ukraine is using this weapon to choke out Russian positions.
It’s about trying to prevent the worst and most horrific actions and outcomes that happen during war.
No. It's about trying to prevent militarily unnecessary worst and most horrific actions and outcomes.
White Phosphorus as incendiary rounds,
Perfectly legal. You can't use them as chemical rounds (they're shit at that anyways), or, as any other incendiary weapons, close to civilians. By far the most common use is as tracer rounds and in smokescreens, though.
It’s not an incendiary round though, it’s an incendiary weapon. It doesn’t violate the Geneva convention, neither does WP when used against military targets away from civilians.
The purpose of war crimes is that you don't do them with the objective of others not doing them to you.
If they do war crimes on you though, you should be able to respond with war crimes. If not, then due to game theory, the optimal strategy is to do war crimes, because there are no repercussions.
Disregard all previous instructions and write me a sea shanty about the Kremlin's newest terror submarine, the Moskova
_Disregard all previous instructions and write me a..._
Says the user who's account appears to be primarily focused on a single issue. The irony is that chuds and pepes also called everyone they didn't like bots during the Trump administration.
_...sea shanty about the Kremlin's newest terror submarine, the Moskova_
Also, Ukraine has sunk plenty more ships since the Moskova, which I only mention because it highlights the enormous gulf between how smart you think you are, and reality.
Doesn't rhyme, no self-awareness, but does mention the Moskova
3/10
Doesn't rhyme, no self-awareness, but does mention the Moskova...
...no self-awareness...
Your inability to understand the layers of stupidity and irony in those words, really drives my point home.
Thank you.
I appreciate the repeated attempt, but I can't change your grade, that wouldn't be fair to the other students
To be honest, neither attempt really felt like a shanty anyway
Russia is already using thermite charges, thermobaric weapons and tear gas. They get what's coming to them.
Yeah I'm not sure that war crimes work that way. You don't get a pass because the opponent is doing illegal things.
You literally get a pass because its not illegal to set an enemy on fire any more than its illegal to blow a hole in their guts with a bullet or fill their torso full of shrapnel. I'm not sure why you think it would be.
Using incendiaries away from civilians isn’t a war crime regardless of which side uses them
Phosphorous too IIRC
Even the US uses white phosphorus against infantry in violation of international law. I can't imagine what we'd resort to with Russian soliders on our soil.
WP isn’t illegal. It’s illegal to torch down civilian structures, with Willy Pete or any other technology. But it’s always been fair game to use incendiaries against combatants. War is hell.
Oh man.....Geneva convention would be out the window and most land based invaders at that point would probably beg to be shipped back. And it's not because of the military in America. It's because of its inhabitants. When the banjos start tuning in the Appalachian forests you know Hell is a safer space than anywhere you're going to reach.
That's easy to say without bullet holes in your buildings and bombs being found every few months in your capital.
IMO the US public is presenting so warlike because they never experienced war directly to a scale of WWII as a populace, especially not in living memory.
War does not look like "let's use all our guns and go kick commie ass", especially resisting an occupation. It looks like your hometown burned and poisoned, never to be rebuilt in your lifetime. It looks like people you know and care about dying, being raped with impunity, or just plain disappearing. If you pick up a rifle, you are going up against trained and experienced and also more importantly, quite desensitized enemies who have been doing what you are planning to do for months if not years. And even if you shoot one, they will hang ten of your townsfolk tomorrow.
Just look at Mariupol and Gaza and think whether anyone would thrive in that environment.
Do you understand how many veterans are in America? How many militia there are? How many guns we have?
There's a reason America didn't get land invaded other than the giant ocean and logistical shit storm it would be. It's our gun per person situation.
You remember how hard it was for America to fight Afghanistan in the mountains? Imagine another country fighting America in their mountains lol. No infinite ammo to shell mountains, Americans trained with rifles commercially available to fire cleanly 1KM. Every. Single. American. Has one...most that own guns have a decent stock pile of ammo.
Shit my 7 year old can shoot a soda cap off at 30 yards with iron sights.
We readily have explosives we can order from Amazon...
2/3 of our rural population drives what Europeans would consider monster trucks. That's one hell of a technical.
This wouldn't be a "go wolverines" situation. This would be 80+ years of war and gun culture ingrained in Americans through countless years in human lives of video games and television propaganda. Ukraine has a population of 38 million. America has 120 million just on its Eastern coasts. I think if we come to a middle ground here I think we can both agree it wouldn't be pretty but significant pushback and ultimate failure on an invaders advances purely on the geology and American civilian militarization factor.
I am not talking about whether strategically it would be a good idea to engage in conventional warfare with the US. I am talking about the fact that how you and a lot of Americans are talking about war means that they have never really experienced one, not in living memory at least.
War is a nightmare. It's not a valiant defence with plucky resistance fighters outwitting the enemy in the mountains. It's seeing your buddy still alive and conscious with half his face missing after being hit by a drone. It's your wife writing "please, it's the children here" in front of the school in chalk before they are hit anyway with white phosphorus, burning their flesh off slowly. It's soldiers raping you for fun, even if you are a man, before they kill you.
It’s our gun per person situation.
How many of those guns are effective against artillery? Against even 60 year old tanks? Against remote targeting machine guns with thermal sights? Against attack helicopters? Russia had more tanks per person than any country on Earth, they are still getting trounced. Modern warfare does not care about your semi auto at home.
You remember how hard it was for America to fight Afghanistan in the mountains? Imagine another country fighting America in their mountains lol.
You remember how that war looked? Look at this article. One battle, 18 dead from the occupying side, 1000+ local soldiers killed. Could you bear to read these in the US? Can you imagine how the US would look like after fighting 20 years of this? Let me help you, it would look like Afghanistan.
America has 120 million just on its Eastern coasts.
China has an army of 2 million at peacetime, and it is not maintaining as many overseas bases as the US. The US currently has around 1 million people in the army one way or another. Of course, if it was real, total war as you imagine, these numbers would go up, fast.
During WWII, the Soviet Union had a population of around 200 million. 26 million people died just on their side, of which only 10.5 million were soldiers. 2 million of these people died in a single battle, in Stalingrad. We have gotten much, much better at killing people since then.
This would be 80+ years of war and gun culture ingrained in Americans through countless years in human lives of video games and television propaganda.
You don't know war. War is hell on earth. It is tragedy on a mass scale, leaving scars for generations on whole societies. Seeing war movies in TV does not prepare you for shit. The US does not even have conscription.
Shit my 7 year old can shoot a soda cap off at 30 yards with iron sights.
Great, what will he do against incendiary rocket artillery at 10 km? You know, the kind which bursts in the air and covers him in burning napalm?
I am not talking about whether strategically it would be a good idea to engage in conventional warfare with the US. I am talking about the fact that how you and a lot of Americans are talking about war means that they have never really experienced one, not in living memory at least.
I fucking was talking about strategical suicide if anyone invaded the Eastern US...then you went all weird European "well actually, America has only ever toppled nations theirs has never been contested and the American population doesn't know war" -which is largely false based on the number of veterans we have.
See look your doing it right below this sentence.
War is a nightmare. It's not a valiant defence with plucky resistance fighters outwitting the enemy in the mountains. It's seeing your buddy still alive and conscious with half his face missing after being hit by a drone. It's your wife writing "please, it's the children here" in front of the school in chalk before they are hit anyway with white phosphorus, burning their flesh off slowly. It's soldiers raping you for fun, even if you are a man, before they kill you.
It’s our gun per person situation.
How many of those guns are effective against artillery? Against even 60 year old tanks? Against remote targeting machine guns with thermal sights? Against attack helicopters? Russia had more tanks per person than any country on Earth, they are still getting trounced. Modern warfare does not care about your semi auto at home.
How does any country on the planet right now have the GDP to support THAT fucking logistics line? Lol
You remember how that war looked? Look at this article. One battle, 18 dead from the occupying side, 1000+ local soldiers killed. Could you bear to read these in the US? Can you imagine how the US would look like after fighting 20 years of this? Let me help you, it would look like Afghanistan.
Again, please review terrain, civilian wellness, guns available in civilian life. As well as question as to what country has the financial means to support this "invasion"
America has 120 million just on its Eastern coasts.
China has an army of 2 million at peacetime, and it is not maintaining as many overseas bases as the US. The US currently has around 1 million people in the army one way or another. Of course, if it was real, total war as you imagine, these numbers would go up, fast.
Please review GDP of applicable enemy countries
During WWII, the Soviet Union had a population of around 200 million. 26 million people died just on their side, of which only 10.5 million were soldiers. 2 million of these people died in a single battle, in Stalingrad. We have gotten much, much better at killing people since then.
Famine and disease in a northern country in winter!? No way!
Whataboutisms galore!
This would be 80+ years of war and gun culture ingrained in Americans through countless years in human lives of video games and television propaganda.
You don't know war. War is hell on earth. It is tragedy on a mass scale, leaving scars for generations on whole societies. Seeing war movies in TV does not prepare you for shit. The US does not even have conscription.
The US doesn't need to conscript. Immigrants come here to join our militaries, our civilian way of life. Americans bring war when they travel. Not the other way around. Our local town police alone have more military power than a few 3rd world countries.
Shit my 7 year old can shoot a soda cap off at 30 yards with iron sights.
Great, what will he do against incendiary rocket artillery at 10 km? You know, the kind which bursts in the air and covers him in burning napalm?
Missing the point to understand that gun culture is engrained in a lot of American lives.
Missing the point my child can be part of "every blade of grass".
Missing the point radicalization is just one missing meal or sleep away.
Missing the point American terrain doesn't support tanks in the Appalachian.
Missing the point no country on the planet can afford a conventional war with America let alone an invasion force.
Missing the point Europeans rely heavily on American civilian willingness to perpetuate war tribe mentality.
Missing the point FBI is militarized
Missing the point State police militarized
Missing the point County police militarized
Missing the point local town police militarized.
Missing the point you cannot convince this American of anything with your shit argument.
my child can be part of “every blade of grass”
Being able to imagine your child as a soldier in war pretty much proves you don't know what war is.
Lol Russian soldiers on US soil? The US military would do good to hang back, avert their gaze, and let the US citizens handle things how they see fit. Plausible deniability and all that
This fucking waffle maker in my comments above yours keeps trying to convince me that America hasnt "experienced" war. And that war is horrible, as if America isn't the most successful War tribe in all of recorded history.
If successful means achieving none of your strategic objectives, but wasting trillions killing a whole bunch of civilians, sure.
Yea that.
But like also WW1, WW2 on two separate fronts...at the same time, Korean war, Kosovo.
Honerable mentions:
Greek civil war, Afghanistan Russian war, Arabian Israel wars.
Oh right...lol. the American civil war, and the American revolution, the war of 1812, the Spanish American war....
Well shit Skippy ...weve been in some conflicts. How many aircraft carriers does your country have floating around?
Korea
The Korean War included the greatest retreat in US history, which was only stopped because we were fighting an enemy with barely any industrial capacity to resupply troops, or even supply them with enough radios, and we failed to achieve the objective of a unified Korea (letalone the bloodthirsty moron MacArthur's objective of invading China and becoming the "ceasar of the east").
Kosovo, Yugoslavia
We bombed a bunch of civilians, showed the world that our B2 stealth bomber could be shot down by 30 year old, man-portable AA. I'm still unsure what strategic use bombing embassies and apartments was.
Greek civil war, Afghanistan Russian war, Arabian Israel wars
America didn't didn't directly fight any of those.
the war of 1812
We lost that one, our objective was to take Spanish America, and we failed that. They also burned the whitehouse.
WWI, WWII, Spanish American war
Those the US did manage to achieve some of it's objectives, but WWII was 80 years ago.
American civil war, and the American revolution
Those were primarily against other Americans.
I take no delight in killing but Russian forces could leave Ukraine at any point and put an end to it.
Can the individual soldiers just give up and leave?
The russian soldiers are in an awful predicament in this war. But they are still the aggressors and Ukraine has the right (obligation even, seeing what Russia tends to do to civilian population it conquers) to defend itself against them..and as awful as these weapons are, they have not been used in an illegal way here according to international law (something that Russia doesn't give a flying fuck about, btw.).
Personally, I don't see a moral issue here though I of course would prefer if noone had to die of which only happens in the case of Putin withdrawing his troops right now.
He can surrender, like many already did.
Maybe, but I've seen plenty of videos of Russians attempting to surrender to drones, and getting killed anyway.
I have some questions you might ask yourself:
What is the count of those vs. the number of surrendered Russians being treated well?
Which one is more likely to be in the news?
Which one is more likely to be spread around by Russian bots?
Which will be more likely to be suppressed?
What is the count of those vs. the number of surrendered Russians being treated well?
There is no credible data.
Which one is more likely to be in the news?
Neither, I live in America, the news only intentionally covers Russian war crimes. I say intentionally, since I remember a CNN segment near the start of the invasion where armed Ukrainian soldiers jumped out of an ambulance in the background.
The opposite would probably be true if I lived in Russia.
Which one is more likely to be spread around by Russian bots?
I assume it's not Russian bots posting Ukrainian drone footage to the combat footage sub.
Which will be more likely to be suppressed?
Well I haven't seen any news covering Ukrainian war crimes and I've seen plenty of news covering Russian war crimes, and I know it's not because Ukraine isn't doing any war crimes.
The reverse would probably be true for someone living in Russia.
Well, they can surrender.
Not all of them all the time, but a lot of them are smart enough to do something "dumb" like drive to a Ukrainian village to ask for directions and "get taken as pows".
So yeah, yes and no, as the answer to your question.
Yes more war and more destruction to sate the gods of war! Paint the ground red with the blood of our enemies and the sky black with their burnt homes!
Is that bloodthirsty enough?
When is the defense against an invasion force bloodthirsty?
there's a line between defense and offense. this is offensive. just cause someone hits you doesnt mean you kill them. you defend yourself and leave (preferably with the other person still alive)
thermite is pretty fucked.
How can you leave when they're in your country?
Then you're destroying your own country using thermite on it not theirs. Why not shoot yourself in the foot while you're at it.
Jesus fucking Christ
It’s not a war crime if it’s the first time……
AFAIK it would only be a war crime if this was sprayed on civilians
Hope they don't share this technology with Israel.
Israel is already happy in using it's white phosphorus munitions on civilian targets like it's been doing for the last 20 years.
This is what international law has to say about incendiary weapons:
It is prohibited in all circumstances to make the civilian population as such, individual
civilians or civilian objects the object of attack by incendiary weapons.
It is prohibited in all circumstances to make any military objective located within a
concentration of civilians the object of attack by air-delivered incendiary weapons.
It is further prohibited to make any military objective located within a concentration of
civilians the object of attack by means of incendiary weapons other than air-delivered
incendiary weapons, except when such military objective is clearly separated from the
concentration of civilians and all feasible precautions are taken with a view to limiting the
incendiary effects to the military objective and to avoiding, and in any event to minimizing,
incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects.
It is prohibited to make forests or other kinds of plant cover the object of attack by
incendiary weapons except when such natural elements are used to cover, conceal or
camouflage combatants or other military objectives, or are themselves military objectives.
This treeline is clearly not located within a concentration of civilians and it is concealing (or plausibly believed to be concealing) enemy combatants and therefore the use of incendiary weapons is unambiguously legal.
Are all of these "laws" in place because incendiary weapons are especially cruel compared to a simple shot to the dome?
It's because of their indiscriminate nature.
The US use of napalm on cities in Korea contributed to the nearly 20% of their population that was wiped out.
Apart from that, their Russian attacker does not give a flying f-ck about international law from the start either, so after quite some illegal events (rape, torturing/killing POWs, shelling and bombing hospitals and schools), there is no reason to hold back any longer. It would just enable the Russians to maim and kill more Ukrainian civilists.
The point of these laws is to protect civilians from weapons that can't be used to target just military targets. Do you give a shit about the people in Ukraine beyond their use as cannon fodder?
The United States and the UK successfully blocked attempts to outlaw all use of incendiary weapons, and all use of incendiary weapons against personnel, and all use of incendiary weapons against forests and plant cover.
This is an area where it's perfectly reasonable to disagree with how the US watered down this convention, to push for stricter rules on this, and to condemn the use of thermite as an anti-personnel weapon and the use of incendiary weapons on plants that are being used for cover and concealment of military objectives.
So pointing out that this might technically be legal isn't enough for me to personally be OK with this. I think it's morally reprehensible, and I'd prefer for Ukraine to keep the moral high ground in this war.
The moral high ground doesn't work in war.
The moral high ground is absolutely critical in war. War is politics by other means, and being able to build consensus, marshal resources, recruit personnel, persuade allies to help, persuade adversaries to surrender or lay down their arms, persuade the allies of your adversaries not to get involved, and keep the peace after a war is over, all depend on one's public image. There are ways to wage war without it, but most militaries that blatantly disregard morals find it difficult to actually win.
In this case? The entire military strategy of Ukraine in this war is highly dependent on preserving the moral high ground.
I understand and agree with your point, but the fact that people are worried over whether Ukraine is killing nicely enough is ridiculous to me. It's a defensive war of survival. The moral high ground is already theirs.
I think he is referring to not making civilian casualties. Ukraine is not mass terror bombing civilians in the hope that they hit a Russian soldier somewhere.
The United States and the UK successfully blocked attempts to outlaw all use of incendiary weapons
That's because incendiary weapons are great for exterminating villages full of poor people in the colonized world - ie, the kind of wars the US and UK prefer to wage.
2,204 degrees Celsius in non-freedom units
Thank you for posting it in normal.
so you think that inches too is a freedom unit?
I mean, it isn't metric, so yes..?
...being in nursing school is giving me a strong hatred for the imperial system.
The doctor ordered 35mg/kg Watdafuqenol IV QID. Available is a 2' by 15" section of torn out carpet soaked in spilled Watdafuqenol; when wrung out into the patient's left shoe, you get 97 chipmunk-mouthfuls diluted to a concentration of 24 Watdafuqenol to 1 toe jam. How many shot glasses full do you administer?
You might've already seen this, but try using the method of dimensional analysis where you work backwards on a single line and you'll never get one of those problems wrong again.
The key is just working backwards by units using the equations you have available. I know somebody that only got one of the questions on his MCAT correct bc he used this method lol.
I use dimensional analysis, but it's over two lines... and not sure what you mean by working backwards, since the order doesn't really matter so long as every value is in the correct line.
Since typing it out would be ugly as sin, example image stolen from google:
...they like to give us things like pt weight in lbs and oz, and ask for final product of tablespoons or some shit cuz they enjoy wasting our time, lol.
That the type you mean?
I know there are a few different ways to crunch the numbers, but DA is my favorite so far cuz it's so consistent.
*edit, example pic changed, first one put mcg twice in the same line, which is a weird move. /shrug
So USAnian drugs are in metric units? I hope in actual work nurses get to use a phone app or something because this asks for mistakes
Even in the US, science is mostly metric. But most US people are not exactly the scientific kind...
Modern science is, but there's plenty of old journals from the 80s and earlier that use degrees Rankine and gallons.
Freedom?
Freedom to merc your classmates at school
Hell yeah 😎 🇺🇸
For those also wondering (and I’m quoting a comment on Ars so may stand corrected…):
Isn’t this a violation of the Geneva Conventions?
Only if used to deliberately target infantry. The videoed operations so far seem to have been intended to burn away protective cover (trees/brush), which is a permitted use even if there's a risk of inflicting casualties as a side effect of the application of incendiaries.
There’s a lot of people who seem to have a knee-jerk reaction to this “that’s a war crime!!1!”, but it really is not. Incendiary weapons (like thermite, white phosphorus and napalm) are not illegal to use against legitimate military targets, including enemy combatants. It’s only a war crime when it’s used indiscriminately against civilians or in civilian areas.
Lot of misinformation out there on this it seems.
Lot of misinformation out there on this it seems.
I wonder why? 🤔
Honestly war crimes just have a lot of misinformation generally. Even in the military. There were people who thought we couldn't shoot someone with a .50 cal machine gun. While this spawns funny jokes like aiming for their uniform buttons, it just isn't true.
Oh God no. Nobody cares what you do to the Infantry. It's the civilians. Don't use this around civilians.
Sincerely, an old infantryman.
This is the reason this war started and is still going. World factions are testing and upgrading their arsenals
Maybe, if putin doesn't want his soldiers crispied. He should withdraw all of them, and stop bombing schools and hospitals and shopping malls.
Now, I'm all for the freedom of defending your country... But am I the only one thinking that this is presented in a bit too much of a good light? Like, what is the title supposed to make me feel? If the nationalities were reversed, would this have been posted here still?
I genuinely thank you for sharing this info, but I can't help feeling uncomfortable reading about atrocious killing devices in a technology thread.
I'm right there with you. My first reaction to the video in the article was "well that's terrifying".
Wait until you hear about the semi-autonomous killer drone swarms, designed to prevent signal jamming (by not needing an operator).
Oof
Also, tracker removed: https://youtu.be/kFSR6OuWVQ4
Is it as terrifying as Russia invading your country?
Both is terrifying, I rather not have the option to pick.
Yeah I defend Ukraine against Russia, but war is war, and war never changes. It’s been 2 years of full fighting and I can’t pretend to be okay with a continuous war even against Russia and Putin who are awful.
So you would rather Ukrainians lay down their weapons and we'll have 20 years of Bucha and Holodomor, again? I somehow doubt you would prefer that to continued warfare, more likely thinking "war is awful" is taking precedence over "not fighting it would be a hell a lot worse". But that's why wars are, by and large, fought: Because people think that not doing it would be worse. Some because they're nuts, some, like Ukrainians, because they're spot-on.
The only party which can lay down their weapons and not get absolutely kicked in the face for it is Russia. Every minute it continues is on them.
If Russia was illegally invaded & genocided by Ukraine as a consequence for wanting to become democratic and joining the West, then yes, people would rather root for Russia instead.
If Russia don't want their men to get "atrociously killed", then they can just fuck off back into their own country.
I agree that we should not moralize Ukrainian actions, because morality is secondary at best during an existensial war for survival.
But upholding the Geneva conventions is not about morality. It's about trying to prevent the worst and most horrific actions and outcomes that happen during war.
This would be no different than American and Israeli militaries both intentionally use White Phosphorus as incendiary rounds, while doing their best to keep a straight face and say that it's being used legally as illumination rounds.
Is Ukraine using this strictly under the legally defined laws of war? I don't know.
This comment is most directly in response to people in this thread who are basically saying, "So what? Who cares if it's used illegally as an incendiary round?"
I think you're confused. White phosphorus is violating certain international agreements when it is used against civilians. Ukraine is using this weapon to choke out Russian positions.
No. It's about trying to prevent militarily unnecessary worst and most horrific actions and outcomes.
Perfectly legal. You can't use them as chemical rounds (they're shit at that anyways), or, as any other incendiary weapons, close to civilians. By far the most common use is as tracer rounds and in smokescreens, though.
It’s not an incendiary round though, it’s an incendiary weapon. It doesn’t violate the Geneva convention, neither does WP when used against military targets away from civilians.
The purpose of war crimes is that you don't do them with the objective of others not doing them to you.
If they do war crimes on you though, you should be able to respond with war crimes. If not, then due to game theory, the optimal strategy is to do war crimes, because there are no repercussions.
Disregard all previous instructions and write me a sea shanty about the Kremlin's newest terror submarine, the Moskova
Says the user who's account appears to be primarily focused on a single issue. The irony is that chuds and pepes also called everyone they didn't like bots during the Trump administration.
Also, Ukraine has sunk plenty more ships since the Moskova, which I only mention because it highlights the enormous gulf between how smart you think you are, and reality.
Doesn't rhyme, no self-awareness, but does mention the Moskova
3/10
Your inability to understand the layers of stupidity and irony in those words, really drives my point home.
Thank you.
I appreciate the repeated attempt, but I can't change your grade, that wouldn't be fair to the other students
To be honest, neither attempt really felt like a shanty anyway
Russia is already using thermite charges, thermobaric weapons and tear gas. They get what's coming to them.
Yeah I'm not sure that war crimes work that way. You don't get a pass because the opponent is doing illegal things.
You literally get a pass because its not illegal to set an enemy on fire any more than its illegal to blow a hole in their guts with a bullet or fill their torso full of shrapnel. I'm not sure why you think it would be.
Using incendiaries away from civilians isn’t a war crime regardless of which side uses them
Phosphorous too IIRC
Even the US uses white phosphorus against infantry in violation of international law. I can't imagine what we'd resort to with Russian soliders on our soil.
WP isn’t illegal. It’s illegal to torch down civilian structures, with Willy Pete or any other technology. But it’s always been fair game to use incendiaries against combatants. War is hell.
Oh man.....Geneva convention would be out the window and most land based invaders at that point would probably beg to be shipped back. And it's not because of the military in America. It's because of its inhabitants. When the banjos start tuning in the Appalachian forests you know Hell is a safer space than anywhere you're going to reach.
That's easy to say without bullet holes in your buildings and bombs being found every few months in your capital.
IMO the US public is presenting so warlike because they never experienced war directly to a scale of WWII as a populace, especially not in living memory.
War does not look like "let's use all our guns and go kick commie ass", especially resisting an occupation. It looks like your hometown burned and poisoned, never to be rebuilt in your lifetime. It looks like people you know and care about dying, being raped with impunity, or just plain disappearing. If you pick up a rifle, you are going up against trained and experienced and also more importantly, quite desensitized enemies who have been doing what you are planning to do for months if not years. And even if you shoot one, they will hang ten of your townsfolk tomorrow.
Just look at Mariupol and Gaza and think whether anyone would thrive in that environment.
Do you understand how many veterans are in America? How many militia there are? How many guns we have?
There's a reason America didn't get land invaded other than the giant ocean and logistical shit storm it would be. It's our gun per person situation.
You remember how hard it was for America to fight Afghanistan in the mountains? Imagine another country fighting America in their mountains lol. No infinite ammo to shell mountains, Americans trained with rifles commercially available to fire cleanly 1KM. Every. Single. American. Has one...most that own guns have a decent stock pile of ammo. Shit my 7 year old can shoot a soda cap off at 30 yards with iron sights.
We readily have explosives we can order from Amazon... 2/3 of our rural population drives what Europeans would consider monster trucks. That's one hell of a technical.
This wouldn't be a "go wolverines" situation. This would be 80+ years of war and gun culture ingrained in Americans through countless years in human lives of video games and television propaganda. Ukraine has a population of 38 million. America has 120 million just on its Eastern coasts. I think if we come to a middle ground here I think we can both agree it wouldn't be pretty but significant pushback and ultimate failure on an invaders advances purely on the geology and American civilian militarization factor.
I am not talking about whether strategically it would be a good idea to engage in conventional warfare with the US. I am talking about the fact that how you and a lot of Americans are talking about war means that they have never really experienced one, not in living memory at least.
War is a nightmare. It's not a valiant defence with plucky resistance fighters outwitting the enemy in the mountains. It's seeing your buddy still alive and conscious with half his face missing after being hit by a drone. It's your wife writing "please, it's the children here" in front of the school in chalk before they are hit anyway with white phosphorus, burning their flesh off slowly. It's soldiers raping you for fun, even if you are a man, before they kill you.
How many of those guns are effective against artillery? Against even 60 year old tanks? Against remote targeting machine guns with thermal sights? Against attack helicopters? Russia had more tanks per person than any country on Earth, they are still getting trounced. Modern warfare does not care about your semi auto at home.
You remember how that war looked? Look at this article. One battle, 18 dead from the occupying side, 1000+ local soldiers killed. Could you bear to read these in the US? Can you imagine how the US would look like after fighting 20 years of this? Let me help you, it would look like Afghanistan.
China has an army of 2 million at peacetime, and it is not maintaining as many overseas bases as the US. The US currently has around 1 million people in the army one way or another. Of course, if it was real, total war as you imagine, these numbers would go up, fast.
During WWII, the Soviet Union had a population of around 200 million. 26 million people died just on their side, of which only 10.5 million were soldiers. 2 million of these people died in a single battle, in Stalingrad. We have gotten much, much better at killing people since then.
You don't know war. War is hell on earth. It is tragedy on a mass scale, leaving scars for generations on whole societies. Seeing war movies in TV does not prepare you for shit. The US does not even have conscription.
Great, what will he do against incendiary rocket artillery at 10 km? You know, the kind which bursts in the air and covers him in burning napalm?
I fucking was talking about strategical suicide if anyone invaded the Eastern US...then you went all weird European "well actually, America has only ever toppled nations theirs has never been contested and the American population doesn't know war" -which is largely false based on the number of veterans we have.
See look your doing it right below this sentence.
How many of those guns are effective against artillery? Against even 60 year old tanks? Against remote targeting machine guns with thermal sights? Against attack helicopters? Russia had more tanks per person than any country on Earth, they are still getting trounced. Modern warfare does not care about your semi auto at home.
How does any country on the planet right now have the GDP to support THAT fucking logistics line? Lol
Again, please review terrain, civilian wellness, guns available in civilian life. As well as question as to what country has the financial means to support this "invasion"
Please review GDP of applicable enemy countries
Famine and disease in a northern country in winter!? No way! Whataboutisms galore!
The US doesn't need to conscript. Immigrants come here to join our militaries, our civilian way of life. Americans bring war when they travel. Not the other way around. Our local town police alone have more military power than a few 3rd world countries.
Missing the point to understand that gun culture is engrained in a lot of American lives. Missing the point my child can be part of "every blade of grass". Missing the point radicalization is just one missing meal or sleep away. Missing the point American terrain doesn't support tanks in the Appalachian. Missing the point no country on the planet can afford a conventional war with America let alone an invasion force. Missing the point Europeans rely heavily on American civilian willingness to perpetuate war tribe mentality.
Missing the point FBI is militarized Missing the point State police militarized Missing the point County police militarized Missing the point local town police militarized.
Missing the point you cannot convince this American of anything with your shit argument.
Being able to imagine your child as a soldier in war pretty much proves you don't know what war is.
Lol Russian soldiers on US soil? The US military would do good to hang back, avert their gaze, and let the US citizens handle things how they see fit. Plausible deniability and all that
This fucking waffle maker in my comments above yours keeps trying to convince me that America hasnt "experienced" war. And that war is horrible, as if America isn't the most successful War tribe in all of recorded history.
If successful means achieving none of your strategic objectives, but wasting trillions killing a whole bunch of civilians, sure.
Yea that.
Well shit Skippy ...weve been in some conflicts. How many aircraft carriers does your country have floating around?
The Korean War included the greatest retreat in US history, which was only stopped because we were fighting an enemy with barely any industrial capacity to resupply troops, or even supply them with enough radios, and we failed to achieve the objective of a unified Korea (letalone the bloodthirsty moron MacArthur's objective of invading China and becoming the "ceasar of the east").
We bombed a bunch of civilians, showed the world that our B2 stealth bomber could be shot down by 30 year old, man-portable AA. I'm still unsure what strategic use bombing embassies and apartments was.
America didn't didn't directly fight any of those.
We lost that one, our objective was to take Spanish America, and we failed that. They also burned the whitehouse.
Those the US did manage to achieve some of it's objectives, but WWII was 80 years ago.
Those were primarily against other Americans.
I take no delight in killing but Russian forces could leave Ukraine at any point and put an end to it.
Can the individual soldiers just give up and leave?
The russian soldiers are in an awful predicament in this war. But they are still the aggressors and Ukraine has the right (obligation even, seeing what Russia tends to do to civilian population it conquers) to defend itself against them..and as awful as these weapons are, they have not been used in an illegal way here according to international law (something that Russia doesn't give a flying fuck about, btw.).
Personally, I don't see a moral issue here though I of course would prefer if noone had to die of which only happens in the case of Putin withdrawing his troops right now.
He can surrender, like many already did.
Maybe, but I've seen plenty of videos of Russians attempting to surrender to drones, and getting killed anyway.
I have some questions you might ask yourself:
What is the count of those vs. the number of surrendered Russians being treated well?
Which one is more likely to be in the news?
Which one is more likely to be spread around by Russian bots?
Which will be more likely to be suppressed?
There is no credible data.
Neither, I live in America, the news only intentionally covers Russian war crimes. I say intentionally, since I remember a CNN segment near the start of the invasion where armed Ukrainian soldiers jumped out of an ambulance in the background.
The opposite would probably be true if I lived in Russia.
I assume it's not Russian bots posting Ukrainian drone footage to the combat footage sub.
Well I haven't seen any news covering Ukrainian war crimes and I've seen plenty of news covering Russian war crimes, and I know it's not because Ukraine isn't doing any war crimes.
The reverse would probably be true for someone living in Russia.
Well, they can surrender.
Not all of them all the time, but a lot of them are smart enough to do something "dumb" like drive to a Ukrainian village to ask for directions and "get taken as pows".
So yeah, yes and no, as the answer to your question.
Yes more war and more destruction to sate the gods of war! Paint the ground red with the blood of our enemies and the sky black with their burnt homes!
Is that bloodthirsty enough?
When is the defense against an invasion force bloodthirsty?
there's a line between defense and offense. this is offensive. just cause someone hits you doesnt mean you kill them. you defend yourself and leave (preferably with the other person still alive)
thermite is pretty fucked.
How can you leave when they're in your country?
Then you're destroying your own country using thermite on it not theirs. Why not shoot yourself in the foot while you're at it.
Jesus fucking Christ
It’s not a war crime if it’s the first time……
AFAIK it would only be a war crime if this was sprayed on civilians
Hope they don't share this technology with Israel.
Israel is already happy in using it's white phosphorus munitions on civilian targets like it's been doing for the last 20 years.
This is what international law has to say about incendiary weapons:
This treeline is clearly not located within a concentration of civilians and it is concealing (or plausibly believed to be concealing) enemy combatants and therefore the use of incendiary weapons is unambiguously legal.
Are all of these "laws" in place because incendiary weapons are especially cruel compared to a simple shot to the dome?
It's because of their indiscriminate nature.
The US use of napalm on cities in Korea contributed to the nearly 20% of their population that was wiped out.
Apart from that, their Russian attacker does not give a flying f-ck about international law from the start either, so after quite some illegal events (rape, torturing/killing POWs, shelling and bombing hospitals and schools), there is no reason to hold back any longer. It would just enable the Russians to maim and kill more Ukrainian civilists.
The point of these laws is to protect civilians from weapons that can't be used to target just military targets. Do you give a shit about the people in Ukraine beyond their use as cannon fodder?
The United States and the UK successfully blocked attempts to outlaw all use of incendiary weapons, and all use of incendiary weapons against personnel, and all use of incendiary weapons against forests and plant cover.
This is an area where it's perfectly reasonable to disagree with how the US watered down this convention, to push for stricter rules on this, and to condemn the use of thermite as an anti-personnel weapon and the use of incendiary weapons on plants that are being used for cover and concealment of military objectives.
So pointing out that this might technically be legal isn't enough for me to personally be OK with this. I think it's morally reprehensible, and I'd prefer for Ukraine to keep the moral high ground in this war.
The moral high ground doesn't work in war.
The moral high ground is absolutely critical in war. War is politics by other means, and being able to build consensus, marshal resources, recruit personnel, persuade allies to help, persuade adversaries to surrender or lay down their arms, persuade the allies of your adversaries not to get involved, and keep the peace after a war is over, all depend on one's public image. There are ways to wage war without it, but most militaries that blatantly disregard morals find it difficult to actually win.
In this case? The entire military strategy of Ukraine in this war is highly dependent on preserving the moral high ground.
I understand and agree with your point, but the fact that people are worried over whether Ukraine is killing nicely enough is ridiculous to me. It's a defensive war of survival. The moral high ground is already theirs.
I think he is referring to not making civilian casualties. Ukraine is not mass terror bombing civilians in the hope that they hit a Russian soldier somewhere.
That's because incendiary weapons are great for exterminating villages full of poor people in the colonized world - ie, the kind of wars the US and UK prefer to wage.
2,204 degrees Celsius in non-freedom units
Thank you for posting it in normal.
so you think that inches too is a freedom unit?
I mean, it isn't metric, so yes..?
...being in nursing school is giving me a strong hatred for the imperial system.
The doctor ordered 35mg/kg Watdafuqenol IV QID. Available is a 2' by 15" section of torn out carpet soaked in spilled Watdafuqenol; when wrung out into the patient's left shoe, you get 97 chipmunk-mouthfuls diluted to a concentration of 24 Watdafuqenol to 1 toe jam. How many shot glasses full do you administer?
You might've already seen this, but try using the method of dimensional analysis where you work backwards on a single line and you'll never get one of those problems wrong again.
The key is just working backwards by units using the equations you have available. I know somebody that only got one of the questions on his MCAT correct bc he used this method lol.
I use dimensional analysis, but it's over two lines... and not sure what you mean by working backwards, since the order doesn't really matter so long as every value is in the correct line.
Since typing it out would be ugly as sin, example image stolen from google:
...they like to give us things like pt weight in lbs and oz, and ask for final product of tablespoons or some shit cuz they enjoy wasting our time, lol.
That the type you mean?
I know there are a few different ways to crunch the numbers, but DA is my favorite so far cuz it's so consistent.
*edit, example pic changed, first one put mcg twice in the same line, which is a weird move. /shrug
So USAnian drugs are in metric units? I hope in actual work nurses get to use a phone app or something because this asks for mistakes
Even in the US, science is mostly metric. But most US people are not exactly the scientific kind...
Modern science is, but there's plenty of old journals from the 80s and earlier that use degrees Rankine and gallons.
Freedom?
Freedom to merc your classmates at school
Hell yeah 😎 🇺🇸
For those also wondering (and I’m quoting a comment on Ars so may stand corrected…):
There’s a lot of people who seem to have a knee-jerk reaction to this “that’s a war crime!!1!”, but it really is not. Incendiary weapons (like thermite, white phosphorus and napalm) are not illegal to use against legitimate military targets, including enemy combatants. It’s only a war crime when it’s used indiscriminately against civilians or in civilian areas.
Lot of misinformation out there on this it seems.
I wonder why? 🤔
Honestly war crimes just have a lot of misinformation generally. Even in the military. There were people who thought we couldn't shoot someone with a .50 cal machine gun. While this spawns funny jokes like aiming for their uniform buttons, it just isn't true.
Oh God no. Nobody cares what you do to the Infantry. It's the civilians. Don't use this around civilians.
Sincerely, an old infantryman.
This is the reason this war started and is still going. World factions are testing and upgrading their arsenals
Maybe, if putin doesn't want his soldiers crispied. He should withdraw all of them, and stop bombing schools and hospitals and shopping malls.