Undecided voters give Harris a look — but not a commitment — after the debate

nifty@lemmy.world to politics @lemmy.world – 294 points – Undecided voters give Harris a look — but not a commitment — after the debate
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I’ve decided undecided voters have low critical thinking skills and/or are attention seekers

91

If you're an undecided you've always been a bit of a cunt but now especially.

I came here to make certain this clarification was entered into record. Thank you.

At this point the undecideds look 10X dumber than the average MAGA supporter. MAGAs either fell for the rage bait or they think they'll be rewarded somehow (also falling for that lie since Trump only ever rewards his own family). But to be fucking "undecided" between what I think is a somewhat moderate and capable candidate in Harris and a clearly authoritarian grifter in Trump, you need to be straight up committed to a hospital because you probably have a tumor.

Those cunts ain't voting, I guarantee it.

They are, they'll vote for Trump, they just don't want to admit it publicly.

They're too stupid to know where the polling place is, or to fill in a mail-in ballot. Couldn't find their ass with both hands, a map and a flashlight.

And the fate of the entire country rests in their hands.

No it doesn't. If the decided voters turn out, then it GG and Republicans never win another election.

Well, as long as their eligibility/registration isn't tossed under dubious means, there are enough polling stations where they live, they have the ability to go (as in not working or their work allows them to go), their vote sent by mail isn't caught in a USPS black hole until right after the deadline despite being submitted long before, so on, and so on.

I can't imagine how anyone looks at Trump, and who he is as a person, then compares to Harris and still can't decide. The choice is so painfully clear, it's not even a choice. Trump isn't fit for office at any level, let alone the highest office in the land.

I can't imagine how anyone looks at Trump,

the people 'undecided' arent looking at anything. they just dont consume media in the same manner, if at all, as the rest of us. there are humans who actively avoid all politics, and in the united states this is actually very easy to do.

we have bred an entire class of humans who just do not give a shit, and its hard to get them to suddenly care 'this cycle'

I don’t understand why anyone cares about the “undecideds”. These people sound like morons who wouldn’t listen to reason anyway.

Stop begging for scraps. These people make up about three percent of potential voters, and I doubt most of them even bother to go to the polls.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/poll-three-percent-voters-still-035900135.html

Literally every election is decided by the “undecided”. Democrats vote democrat and republicans vote republican. It rare that anyone changes party. What determines elections is if democrats can get people who wouldn’t otherwise vote to vote. Every time people turn out, democrats win. When people are uninterested they lose. Those ~50k people in suburbs of swing states are not unimportant, they are the only thing that matters.

This premise gets thrown around a lot but I actually disagree. "Every time people turn out" is always also thrown in there like some arbitrary thing--when I think the past several election cycles have shown that when there are younger, more progress candidates who make it past the primaries turnout shoots up. Courting the 3% uninformed flip-floppers by moving right is a losing strategy when you could be motivating your own party to turn out by moving left and driving turnout up. There's no money in that though, so dumb centrists get wooed

It’s also a mistruth that people don’t change their minds. Look at the rise and fall of any brand, religion or cult - some people had to change their minds.

Or some people died off, and new suckers fell for new, different marketing.

Advertising wouldn’t work if there was need to wait for generations to pass.

When/if democrats can Energize the base, they don't need to give a shit about undecideds. but until then, we are stuck pandering to the people we know will actually show up to and wait at the voting booth

No, every election is decided by the majority of those who did decide.

Literally every election is decided by the “undecided

That and voter suppression. If everybody could vote easily, the GOP would never win an election.

It's absolutely voter suppression. Every election we have 1/3 of the electorate that doesn't cast a vote. We could court these couple million undecideds or we could fix the system and have automatic registration and even compulsory voting. And then, you're absolutely right, Republicans would never win again.

in a world where the winner is decided by < 5%, 3% is quite a bit.

The implication is that 100% of that 3% votes one way.

in a world where the winner is decided by < 5%

It's a false analysis to claim that. Using that same reasoning, you could as credibly claim that any election is decided by a single vote, the one that gives the winner the majority (or plurality). But that's not actionable information in any way, it's just tautologically true, as is any salami-slicing analysis.

Some of them are also "goldfish voters." These people only engage with whatever political message has been delivered to them most recently. They literally can go from D to R and back again bumper sticker to bumper sticker.

Then there are the obligate ego independents. Their only political belief is that they must vote for both parties some of the time. If they voted D last time then they will probably vote R this time. Because their identity is "independent" so they must manifest that, all reason be damned.

there are humans who actively avoid all politics, and in the united states this is actually very easy to do.

Man, I dont even live in the US, and US politics is inescapable. Of course Canada's political climate is directly affected by what's going on down there, so It's probably harder to avoid here than somewhere across an ocean.

They actually just don't believe the media that goes against what they believe, and at this point I can hardly blame them. There are enough lies, distortions, out of context quotes and mischaracterizations that it is pretty easy to simply disregard things that other people accept as truth. Political season in the United States has a huge cloud, a fog of war, and whoever says their "truth" the loudest and most persistently controls public perception, the narrative. It's discouraging and overwhelming to try to sort out the real truth because there is a rapid and continuous stream of propaganda that can't possibly be investigated and verified. So people go back to their instincts, which are mostly guided by their friends, social groups, and their self-curated media feed. Everything else is disregarded as fake news.

I can't imagine how people could see the dip right after she took back all progressive stances and not understand the easy solution is moving to the left...

But here we are bro

It's 2024 and people constantly do irrational stuff.

She's not going to gain any trump voters, there's zero logical reason for Dems to move to the right. Except they think they can get away with being more to the right.

If they just wanted to win the election, Kamala would be out there for M4A, legal weed, affordable college plan that fixes the flawed system, and some good ole tax raises for the rich.

It's literally that easy.

Obama wasn't near that progressive, and he got a landslide and carried House and Senate.

She’s not going to gain any trump voters, there’s zero logical reason for Dems to move to the right. Except they think they can get away with being more to the right.

While I can't speak on the effectiveness of the strategy, I would point out that Harris et al. aren't really aiming to recruit Trump voters. They're more aiming for more traditional Reaganite Republicans, the "never Trump" people. Think of the type of Republicans like Dick Cheney. That's the type of Republican they're aiming for. They're not aiming to convince an active Trump supporter to flip to Harris. They're trying to get Republicans who don't want to vote for Trump, who would otherwise stay at home, to instead vote for Harris.

My own parents fit into this mold. They're in their sixties and voted for Republicans their entire adult lives, up until 2016. They voted third party in 2016, and in 2020 they switched over to supporting Biden, and now they support Harris and are voting for Democrats across the board.

Whether appealing to voters like my parents or trying to appeal to younger, more disaffected progressive voters is a better strategy, I can't say. But the perennial problem of appealing to hard-core progressive voters is that they are incredibly fickle and often engage in self-destructive purity testing. Look at the leftist voters refusing to vote for Harris over the Palestine issue. Far-left voters have a tendency to find any excuse not to vote for a candidate. It's Palestine this time around, but it could easily be something else. There's always some issue that the main Democratic candidate has that some leftists will cite as a reason not to vote for the mainline Democratic candidate. In 2024, it's Palestine. In 2020, it was Biden and the crime bill. In 2016, it was Hillary's treatment of Bernie. Etc. There's always a purity test violation a certain segment of far left voters will cite to vote against their own interests. They want a perfect candidate, and they will actively seek out any excuse not to vote for the mainline candidate. As no politician will share 100% of their views, there will always be some reason to not vote for them.

The reason Democrats often tilt to the right is that voters on the far left side of things are often short-sighted and incredibly fickle. They're not reliable voters.

To be fair, it's hard to criticise leftists for not voting reliably for the Dems if they keep moving right. I imagine your parents didn't really become leftists, it's just that Dems moved to where the Reps were decades ago.

Supporting a Holocaust-sized genocide is not really "any issue" either. The reason why it still makes sense to vote for Harris is not because that genocide does not matter, it's that Trump would start another one on American soil while endorsing the former as well.

You've basically got the Goldman Sachs candidate, or Hitler from Wish. I hope people turn out for Goldman Sachs-lady, for all our sakes in the world.

I hope people turn out for Goldman Sachs-lady, for all our sakes in the world.

Same here.

To be fair, it’s hard to criticise leftists for not voting reliably for the Dems if they keep moving right.

Agreed. But also see above.

I imagine your parents didn’t really become leftists, it’s just that Dems moved to where the Reps were decades ago.

I feel like it's an issue with the political system as a whole that it's ended up like this, though...

I guess my point is that a (leftist) person is smart and pragmatic, but (leftist) people are impulsive and stupid.

God I hope the US gets its head out its ass and flushes that orange turd.

I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. At least some of these undecided voters seem like they'd otherwise be left leaning but they have the one issue (bad experience with abortion that they want to impose on everyone, or really don't wanna give up their gun, etc) which is holding them back.

Of course it's not like it's the same one issue holding them all back - each one is different from the rest. Hence going more left and liberal - it feels right to us, but likely risk is that doing so could very well push some of these folks away.

That's all and well in a normal election but - well, i think it's obvious most of us regulars here that this election year is not that.

Trump isn't fit for office at any level, let alone the highest office in the land.

Maybe a job at the DMV? It is an office building, does that count? He might be fit for that

He could never exist in a setting where there wasn't a staff dedicated to him at all times

If he weren't so obese, he could be paved over and used as a speed bump.

Trump is an unusually badly performed (even for them) WWE heel. He looks like one of the whorehouse punters in a George Grosz painting, only even more exaggerated. He looks like something my dog sniffed at but refused to eat.

Holy hell those three people are infuriating.

"Yeah, he's a racist and a bigot, but my pocketbook..." Lady, unless you make enough that it doesn't matter, he's not going to help your pocketbook.

I guarantee that woman has been registered R her entire life, sees why he is problematic on a very superficial level, and is still going to AT BEST abstain from voting but more likely vote for him anyhow.

Lynne Kelleher, a registered Republican who voted for Trump in 2016 and for the libertarian candidate in 2020, believes this election comes down to a choice: “Do you vote your pocketbook or do you vote your morals?”

Pretty much.

You're right.

Edit: I'm agreeing with Thunder, not Lynne.

Not at all. Projections from people who know indicate that the economy would do better under Harris, and I don't think there's anyone who could credibly argue that Trump is the more moral candidate.

Sorry, I meant pretty much to ThunderWhiskers' comment about her being a Republican that realizes how problematic Trump is.

The biggest miss at the debate was Harris not reminding everyone how Trump was bullying the fed chair on Twitter when everyone said it was time to start raising interest rates.

In general, the distinction between populism and technocracy needs to be front and center. This is a very easy example.

I highly doubt most voters even know what the fed does, let alone that theyre supposed to be independent.

Economists are predicting a recession if trump is elected

They need to come to Asia. Get a sense of perspective. They're earning plenty.

Anyone still claiming to be undecided about Donald Trump in 2024 is full of shit

If you saw that debate and came out with, "Hmm, but which one should I vote for?", just say you're voting for Trump. Say that shit with your chest, loud and proud. I wanna know what places to avoid.

He said immigrants are eating people's pets for fucks sake.

They are trump voters who don't want to admit it.

The younger woman absolutely was not. The third guy seemed like a toss up for me. I would bet he self-identities as "libertarian".

If you are openly struggling to decide between Trump and Harris, I'd personally assume you are a closet racist at the least. But maybe these people have just been exposed to Trump and his campaign or got in the wrong crowd a bit, maybe they are now struggling to leave that camp but want to. Maybe they want to vote Trump for whatever fucking reason, but they know he is vile really, so won't publicly admit it. Who knows.

So, having actually watched the interviews with these people, I'm pretty comfortable saying the younger woman is not a Trump supporter. She seemed to maybe not be the most intelligent person, but that's not a super fair assessment from a few brief Q&As. She was becoming visibly upset by some of his rhetoric, abortion related in particular.

I also wouldn't be surprised if they were led to an answer of "we're still undecided" by the interviewers in conclusion to broadcast a non-partisan appearance.

Undecided voters don’t matter in this election. There’s so few of them, and most of them are just people who are too scared to say they support Trump.

This election will be decided by turnout.

I cannot understand these wishy-washy, fencing idiots. Do they live in caves? Not just any caves either, But the one Plato talks about? Seriously WTF is wrong with these people. If you don't know what Trump stands for after all of these years, and can't understand what Harris is about, then you seriously should just smack yourself in the face with a cast iron skillet - repeatedly - until either you smash the stupid out of yourself or fall into a coma. I honestly don't care which.

That's essentially what I told my wife last night. If you're undecided and watched the debate and still are undecided, just admit you're a Trump voter.

Right, they gray area is so small, it's practically just a blend line for the huge expanse of black and white on the table for this election.

Last night’s CNN interviews with undecided PA voters made me want to weep for the electorate.

So many of them really were clueless.

For what it's worth, there's been talk that they're really having to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find true undecided voters willing to go on TV and be part of these panels. That's unfortunate in the sense that it suggests there aren't many actually-persuadable voters out there, but these clowns aren't especially representative of the general electorate, either.

It seemed like a couple of Trump plants who ignored what they just watched.

I just can't make up my mind on this one... should I eat a salad, or light my testicles on fire? I mean, it's not that I want my testicles on fire, it's just that I'm really not in the mood for salad.

Six one, half dozen the other, ya know?!

I swear, you could have Hitler reincarnate with Himmler as vice president looking exactly the same as how they looked like in WW2 and use the exact same rhetoric, and the current undecided voters would still be equally clueless on who to vote for, assuming they're actually undecided and not "closeted conservative voter who doesn't want to look bad".

Jesus. That Andrew Wallace guy is a dumb motherfucker lol.

To see that lump of shit Trump laid on the stage last night and go "Yeah, I'm a Democrat and all, but that's my guy right there!!"

That dude is a republican just like that last asshole that conned his way into CNNs "undecided voters" bullshit.

I've never understood how some 70 million Americans watched Trump speak and said "aaah, THIS is my president". You have to have some mental disability to actually choose this dude. Or you're just an evil asshole who wants personal gains.

Most are probably some combination of both evil and stupid.

Considering I was seriously interested in how the debate would go and had to turn it off only half way through, I think it’s highly likely that 70 million Americans waited for Fox to feed them the Cliff’s Notes version.

My best guess is they're a combination of rich people, racist people, and religious people with plenty of overlap between groups.

This sounded weirdly accurate in my head. You fucking nailed it

Wrestling with the hardest decision since cake or death.

Election 2024: High five vs kick in the nuts

Yes, but surely he wouldn’t kick ME in the nuts… just those people I don’t like, right? Why would I want someone to high five THEM?

Need to stop focusing on undecidedvoters and get people that don't (consistently) vote to vote. If they aren't decided by now wouldn't count on them.

Undecided to being a racist nazi you mean. I don’t see how a true republican can support such a divisive felony candidate.

I know that there are a number of people who simply don't pay attention and suddenly realize that they have no idea what's going on when election time comes around. THEY are the undecided voters.

What you see in the media, however, does not convince me that they are genuinely undecided. I believe that a lot of people claim it for the attention they get. Then we have examples of people pretending even though they are actually part of someone's campaign.

I find it hard to believe in these circumstances there are truly undecided. trump was president for four years and there was so much crazy. If someone saw and agree if it was crazy I can't see them voting for him and if someone did not see or did not agree it was crazy then I think its likely they will vote for him.

If they took a look at Trump they'd realize he's a blatant liar and insurrectionist scumbag