Seems like no stylus? If so it makes the starlite not very surface-like in my mind. Ain't a stylus the reason for something like this?
Ah damn yeah, I was just thinking that this device might be something I'd consider blowing my budget for, if it can replace multiple devices. But the lack of stylus on a device like this is huge let down.
How hard would it be to make it work with a third party stylus?
It depends.
You can basically always use the crappy ones made for general touchscreens to replicate your finger. You can't use a real one with features like Apple Pencil/surface pen/wacom without an extra layer built into the screen to recognize them.
FWIW, my daily driver is a Lenovo Yoga with Ubuntu and the active pen works just fine with that. That support is definitely there.
Sure, because the Yoga has the extra screen layer to support active pens. Linux isn't the problem.
it wouldn't be hard at all you just buy a stylus that works like a finger
With the catch that it works like a finger meaning fat and imprecise. A stylus like the surface has is more like a pen and needs hardware in the tablet to function.
Did you ever use the Nvidia Shield Tablet stylus? It was a very thin and precise passive stylus that worked on any touch screen. It was pretty nice. They probably only sold a handful of them, so there was no gen 2. I happen to know someone who was working on that project, so they let me play with it.
Not really. I've got a cheap stylus for my phone that acts like a pen, down to drawing fine lines too. It can't adjust the thickness of the line based on pressure, like my Wacom pad and pen for the PC, but for most things it works brilliantly :)
I have a surface and I love it. At the same time, I hardly use the stylus.
I'm sure it's the reason many get it, but I also think there's a large audience for a tablet without one.
I genuinely dont see the reason for a windows tablet without a stylus. Note-taking is nice with a stylus but for just holding it and watching videos or browsing a surface is honestly too unwieldly and the windows touch interface is also not great.
Agreed. Although I do use the stylus that came with my Galaxy Tab S7 for note-taking, that's the only time I use it. 95% of the time I just use the tablet for browsing the web or watching videos.
My thoughts exactly.
They do have a generic MPP active pen as a configuration option though
I'm not sure on Starlab's background or people's stance on them, but I think this looks pretty nice.
Coreboot, 3:2 aspect ratio, magnetic keyboard, aluminium finish, I'd say makes this a pretty compelling alternative to a surface. Specs aren't super beefy, but I don't think they need to be in this form factor. Introductory price on this seems nice, too.
I’d say makes this a pretty compelling alternative to a surface.
And like a Surface, it puts a desktop OS onto a tablet, basically repeating Microsoft's mistake.
Specs aren’t super beefy, but I don’t think they need to be in this form factor.
There's a difference between "not beefy" and a super crappy 1.00GHz Intel N200. A hardware OEM just needs to go to AMD and pick off the shelf whatever is the closest thing to Steam Deck's CPU.
Desktop OS on a tablet is fine and even preferred depending on what you want it for.
I have a surface and don't mind using full windows that way.
I agree with you. I got a surface go for some time because I wanted to travel with a mini computer that could do some coding with my preferred IDE, document editing, web browsing and a couple other tasks like a computer, even if it was slower.
At the same time it being a tablet was also very useful to watch movies in other rooms!
I used the stylus only because I was curious, but didn't used it more than a couple of weeks
Desktop OS on a tablet is fine and even preferred depending on what you want it for.
If the use case is to use a tablet as a tablet, then a desktop OS is not fine. Source: Me and my Surface Pro 7 which is unusable without the type cover.
Gnome shell works well on my vivo as either a tablet or with the keyboard.
The DE itself is less of a problem than the applications. On my Steam Deck in game mode I use Angelfish as web browser because all the mainstream browsers are just bad for touch controls compared to ones specifically designed for touch. You see a similar complaint in Windows forums were they sag that original Edge was better for tablets than Chromium Edge.
Cool touch applications like Krita Gemini and Calligra Gemini died because "fuck that touch trend, fuck QtQuick, GTK forever". Now we're stuck with applications that need a touchpad or mouse...
Cool touch applications like Krita Gemini and Calligra Gemini died because “fuck that touch trend, fuck QtQuick, GTK forever”. Now we’re stuck with applications that need a touchpad or mouse…
Wut... GTK is one of the very few touch friendly toolkits on *nixen. And neither of those apps were ever GTK.
GTK is one of the very few touch friendly toolkits on *nixen. And neither of those apps were ever GTK.
Of course they were never on GTK because at that time GTK was absolutely useless for anything touch and it didn't really change until libhandy became libadwaita and kinda-sorta became aligned with GTK but is also not part of GTK proper. Gimp is not touch-friendly. Modern Krita somewhat is, Krita Gemini totally was.
I also have a surface pro 7, how is it any less usable without the type cover than any other tablet without one?
how is it any less usable without the type cover than any other tablet without one?
Most Windows applications work like ass with touch. Most iPad and Android apps work best with touch.
I mean sure, but you have the flexibility of a fully featured computer. You could run Android apps on it if you really wanted that UX.
In my experience all that really means is that you're forced to use the stylus for precise taps or right click functionality sometimes.
I mean sure, but you have the flexibility of a fully featured computer.
Same flexibility would be there if the default OS was different. The same PC with Android-x86 would just as capable of booting other systems but the default experience would be touch (finger) friendly.
all that really means is that you're forced to use the stylus for precise taps
Cool. There is no stylus included, though.
No, but there is a virtual touchpad included in Windows that accomplishes the same thing. Different use cases exist and it sounds like an Android tablet fits yours better.
No Android-x86 tablets exist.
Well the desktop OS is what made me choose a Surface Go 1 as my main computer. And now that I've switched to Linux (Fedora), I'm even more thankful that you could apply every tutorial you found on the web for that tablet.
Well, presumably the Linux apps are a feature for the target audience. In terms of the OS UX itself, if you had never seen GNOME before, would you call it a desktop or a tablet UI?
I'd definitely prefer to have gone the AMD route for these, but N200 isn't that awful, no? At least comparable to some Skylake gens? Not that that's amazing in the modern day, but I'd say still capable enough with the included specs to not be too bogged down by some of the lighter distros.
Better off with a Chromebook 10/10 times if you need something low powered, but I think it's an interesting entry to the hardware space.
I’d definitely prefer to have gone the AMD route for these, but N200 isn’t that awful, no?
I doubt it's powerful enough to play back 4k videos smoothly and 1080p stretched to the native resolution doesn't look super great. If AMD didn't offer a vastly better alternative at similar cost, fine, but Ryzen Z1 and such are available.
I have an N100 box running as my Plex server. It has no problem transcoding multiple 4k videos at once. This processor is no M2 but it isn’t really a slouch either.
It has no problem transcoding multiple 4k videos at once.
At 1 GHz? Sure about that? Even if my performance assumptions are off: something like the Steam Deck CPU surely still beats it, especially in low power.
It can clock up to 3.7 GHz and has a decent GPU for an Intel one. All I can say for sure is that it keeps up just fine.
It can clock up to 3.7 GHz and has a decent GPU for an Intel one. All I can say for sure is that it keeps up just fine.
I see no cooling vents, so apparently passive cooling only and massive downclocking. Still think an AMD chip would have been better.
I am of the opinion that if we keep waiting for the “perfect” Linux tablet, it will never exist. The specs of this unit are head and shoulders above any other Linux-dedicated tablet thus far.
I plan on buying one once I see a product review, and if it’s as good as I hope it will be, I hope that Linux users will support it with their wallets so we get more and better devices like this.
The best thing for me is that you can buy a battery for it on their site with instructions how to do the replacement. Nothing is glued together according to the manual (which probably makes it mory clunky than Surface but oh well). Coreboot is an icing on the cake.
It seems like Star Labs is pivoting away from making superheroes and finally decided to use their technology more responsibly!
Was looking for this comment.
I don't need this, I don't need this, I so need this... I mean I don't... fuck!
Well, this month I am already broke...
Always wanted to try a star labs product. What always stops me are the specs. Not enough ram or storage or CPU to justify the price. Even though I know the premium is there because they aren't just white labeled clevos like every other Linux focused PC company
Have a clevo and it sucks.Battery life is poory And the Fans go off for like no reason
Oh no. Man that sucks. Which one? The lemur pro by system76 was a clevo I had it for a bit and thought it was really good all around. I would have kept it but the specs on a M1 were just ridiculous compared to anything out there. No fans, no dust collection was something I didn't know I appreciated so much
It's a tuxedo. The xp15 gen 11 vor clevo PD50. i7 10th gen and a 2070 max q. And a 4k OLED. Battery life is about 50 min : (
I would LOVE an arm machine, but I need a GPU for work.
I got my eyes on the framework 16. I could leave the GPU at home and go for battery life. Or put it in and go into work mode.
I see soo many people complain about the CPU but if your CPU use too much power, your battery is going to take a big hit on battery life, unless the tablet now start at much higher prices. So the 6W form factor makes a lot of sense.
People complaining about it not being AMD. AMD just doesn't make good 6W CPU (other then custom one but that would cost a fortune for such a little company). Intel has been really experienced in this market.
To the people scared about video decoding, Intel has really good HW decoding so 4K isn't an issue. It's better then AMD's one on Linux from my own experience.
Finally this is a $600 tablet, so don't expect a workstation to run Blender. Linux runs well on weaker CPU. My school computer runs KDE Plasma with a few apps open without much trouble and it has a Intel Celeron N5100 and 4GB of RAM.
The problem is that tablets like this generally can't take advantage of the turbo boost on the CPU due to thermal throttling. I'll wait and see, but I expect it to perform worse than an N5100 laptop.
Wait and see
I wish I would have known about this before buying the Pinetab2. I didn't realize (completely my fault) that the Pinetab2 was a development unit without working wifi, bluetooth, camera and other issues. Once again, my fault, not Pine64's.
The point of a tablet is to be secure to use it with a touch interface. If you install just some vanilla Linux distro, that won't work. Is there any touch based interface for Linux that's worth using?
Gnome has a strong touch interface. You just don't see it when used in a desktop.
If you install just some vanilla Linux distro, that won’t work.
My Surface 3 Pro with Debian Stable would disagree. The Gnome desktop does pretty good without a keyboard.
Same here. I've got Debian stable on a Dell Latitude 2-in1 (can't remember the model number) and it works great with Gnome and I can flip the keyboard backwards and use it like a tablet. Although it is bulkier because it has a keyboard attached.
Interesting. Might give that try some time. I'd love to have a tablet with Linux.
Is there any touch based interface for Linux that’s worth using?
Plasma should detect automatically when the keyboard is detached and then apply some changes to its desktop layout. There's also Plasma Mobile but I think that would not work well on the larger screen.
If I were StarLabs, I would probably default to BlissOS which is based on Android-x86 which means all regular Linux distributions are still feasible to install.
If only there was another group of touch first devices, preferably with even smaller screens, oh wait...
Yeah, I know I could just use Android or ChromeOS. But there's a reason why I prefer Linux.
You haven't read the list to the end, have you?
Gnome is actually amazing on a tablet. The touch gestures work well and it even does fancy stuff like pushes the content on your screen up when the on screen keyboard is active so you can see what you're typing. The only thing that really needs work is the on screen keyboard, however it is greatly improved by using the "Improved OSK" Gnome extension. If only it had swipe type.
Source: I recently acquired a hand me down Dell latitude 5175 which is an x86 tablet (can be found for cheap on eBay) so of course I had to install Linux on it. If anyone happens to be interested in using Linux on a Dell latitude 5175/5179 do note that deep sleep does not work and neither do the cameras. I also recommend Ubuntu LTS and using X11 instead of Wayland.
Great RAM and SSD, but at the cost of a quad core processor at 1Ghz. Still, I'd consider it a bargain, especially at 500 with the keyboard, as it is right now.
I mean what high processing thing could you do on a tablet?
Opening up any excel file.
Exporting any jpeg file from lightroom.
Browsing more than one active tab at once. (the Web bloat is amazing)
3D modeling in Blender or maybe CAD of some sort.
Would absolutely get if it had a pen for drawing and notetaking, but otherwise I feel it's just a somewhat underpowered laptop in a neat form factor.
Very appealing for a travel device running a Linux kernel. On the product page, they also mention Open Warranty, which makes me believe it will be easily serviceable - this would be a big plus, especially for a travel tablet, being able to switch the disk easily.
Gnome is not so bad. It has a decent on screen keyboard that's very useable. I occasionally use it on my Dell 2-in-1 laptop.
That's an incredible price for 16gb of memory and a 512 ssd. Would be an upgrade from my 14" laptop. I just hope I don't have to wait multiple years to get it.
Yeah, but at the cost of a quad core processor at 1Ghz
It boosts faster tho, so for average usage it might be fine. It just will have trouble with anything that requires sustained use, which for me would probably just be compiling code or games, things I wouldn't try to do on a tablet.
I like compiling Gentoo on tablets
Are you Immolo? If not, I'll write a comment about this on his latest video.
I'm not. But I installed Gentoo on a x86 tablet, it was fun.
I didn't see anything in the article, but will it have stylus support?
Damn this might be an easy buy for $600
Does anyone have on-screen keyboard experience with Linux tablets?
GNOME Mobile should have a good one after purism started pushing it, right?
Any more info on this?
It's ok, but you really need the "improved OSK" gnome extension so you can have things like arrow keys, Ctrl, etc at all times. The keyboard is usually very good about popping up on it's own when you tap on a text field. If it does fail to auto show itself you can swipe up from the bottom of the screen and pull it up that way. There is no swipe to type but other than that and with the extension I mentioned before, it works well enough. Now there are issues on Wayland that makes it unbearable though so I would recommend you use X.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
In the market for a new laptop or perhaps a Microsoft Surface-like tablet style system?
Well, Star Labs have turned their StarLite laptop into a tablet.
I have to admit, I love the form factor on this giving you the best of both worlds.
You get a sweet fully Linux supported tablet, and you can hook it up to a magnetic keyboard to get a full laptop experience too.
This is a proper Linux system too with open-source firmware powered by coreboot and edk II with updates via LVFS.
They support and test many different configurations, and you get a decent warranty with it too allowing you to to take your computer apart, replace parts, install an upgrade, and use any operating system and even your firmware, all without voiding the warranty.
This is honestly quite interesting. I might get one, if only to play around with and see what cool stuff I can think of to do with it.
Also, their laptops look pretty sweet - I think it strikes a much better long-term balance between framework’s “plug-and-play” approach (which necessarily leads to a slightly clunkier and less sleek design) and Apple’s “inscrutable slab of electronics” approach.
Star’s approach requires more (dis)assembly time and care, but I think that’s fine. You can open up a Framework way more trivially, but well… how often do you honestly plan on disassembling your laptop? For me, it’s:
when I get it, to upgrade the RAM and SSD
if I want to upgrade later, but that typically happens years down the road, and sometimes not ever if it can do what I need it to do without issues
if something breaks and needs replacement… but that also typically happens years down the road
So, while I appreciate Framework’s approach… I’m honestly not going to crack the thing open more than 3 or 4 times, and hopefully only once or twice, so I am absolutely fine sacrificing super easy maintenance for an overall sleeker and more robust-feeling design.
I once had a laptop that let you upgrade the mobile graphics cards. It was incredible.
Framework’s newer 16” model lets you do that now, I think
Yes
I agree, I would say a reasonable limit for me would be:
An hour for any maintenance (replace any component, start to finish)
About 5-10eur for single use materials.
I think anymore would be enough to deter me from doing it the 1 or 2 times a year I really need it.
The important bit not mentioned here is that FW machines are both user serviceable and user upgradable. No need to eat the cost or create the waste of replacing a perfectly good chassis and display, and then sell off the replaced mainboard on the market.
Looks like a dope little device but at that price I think I might be more interested in a Steam Deck.
Steam deck kinda sucks for media consumption as a handheld, and it's much heavier. But this thing isn't gonna game well 😅
I feel like no desktop OS maker has nailed transition to touch screen devices, but I have only recently gotten my first x86 tablet and have only used windows on it, so my experience is limited and I'm only judging from screenshots I have seen online.
(I guess steam OS can count as decent enough, but it's not available yet outside of steam deck and it's gaming focused)
P.S. I honestly would be happy with an iPad if it were not so limited and more non-mobile games were available for it
I think the issue with devices like this is that apps simply aren't optimized for use like this.
I have a Surface. Barely used it as a tablet really, there aren't a ton of uses and Windows in tablet mode is just awful.
With the keyboard it turns into a neat and portable mini laptop, which I love.
The Starlite seems neat, but with the current specs it feels like not quite a tablet yet not quite a laptop either.
Y'know what? I may just sell my iPad for this.
FWIW this thing is nowhere near as powerful as a modern iPad. Different universes.
True - but hell all I ever do with mine is watch videos and browse the web anyway...
Waste of an M1 processor honestly
My m1 has rwally crappy Battery life
oooo this thing looks awesome, I want one.
I've always been fascinated by this type of form factor.
Wow, the price and openness of both the firmware and warranty make this a very enticing product. I've been casually looking for a new laptop, something to just watch youtube, browsing and manage my home lab with.
I checked out the actual product page, and it's a bit confusing in the configurator. Seems like the default power adaptor is non-us by default. Easy enough to change, no cost variance. But the keyboard section is confusing. Additional layout options for +~$110. Does that mean a secondary keyboard? What's the default?
EDIT: Any keyboard is not included, after finally finding the "what's in the box" in the specifications section. So, factor in an extra $100 in the price if ya need it.
This looks great and seems very reasonably priced. Pretty sure it won't replace my Android tablet but it might tempt me into trying.
The plus side of this is that there's not the Android situation where you just won't get OS updates at some point. The downside is that the 1GHz Intel CPU is trash.
Yeah, I am really disappointed it isn't running on an ARM processor.
Their notebook does, though, so maybe in the future.
Okay but the real question is does the keyboard use QMK? Mnt Reform has set the standard for open source laptops imo, if I can't program my keyboard then that is a massive downside.
Just use kmonad?
kmonad
Didn't know about this. I'd still like QMK since I like having hardware level control, but this looks like something I'd use in conjunction with QMK. I should try setting it up this weekend. Thanks!
Coreboot too
hmm interesting I might get this
WiFi AC is interesting, mostly because AX has a lot of improvements for congestion
They are using older/more affordable chipsets
Hm, I'm interested, although I've gotten by just fine running Linux on my old Surface Pro 3
I'm running endeavour os on a Lenovo duet 3. It's fully functional including the gyroscope, which is super damn amazing. Windows basically wouldn't run, but I feel like a super user when in using endeavor on it. It's so good.
I support linking the original site as a general rule, but I don't think GamingOnLinux is blog spam. He curates information from a variety of places, provides a quick accessible summary, and very clearly links back to the article he's referencing.
In this specific case, his table of specs is far more readable and accessible than the obnoxious advertising product page is.
I support linking the original site as a general rule, but I don’t think GamingOnLinux is blog spam.
GamingOnLinux is the OMG!Ubuntu of Linux gaming, a website several link aggregators rightfully banned.
He curates information from a variety of places, provides a quick accessible summary, and very clearly links back to the article he’s referencing.
GOL does less summarizing of hard to read sources than Phoronix and even Phoronix is questionable lots of times.
If GOL does some original reporting: Fine. If GOL summarizes discussions from bug trackers and mailing lists: Fine.
If GOL just rewords content that right there in the original source: Blog spam.
In this specific case, his table of specs is far more readable and accessible than the obnoxious advertising product page is.
Cleaning up the key points of an original source (especially a dumpster fire product ad page like that specifically designed to obscure relevant details behind nonsense formatting) isn't spam.
I see no problem with starlabs.systems/pages/starlite-specification which is accessible from the hard to miss drop down menu at the top.
I have no opinion on whether this is blogspam, but the UX on that page is terrible (on mobile at least). I need to click to expand every section (9 times). And to make it worse, expanding one section collapses the others.
Would you like some fries with your salt?
Thanks
Nice
Does the keyboard work while detached? When I travel, I like to plug the laptop into the TV and control it from across the room with a wireless keyboard and mouse. It would be nice not to have to pack a separate keyboard.
If it follows the Surface design, it doesn't. Surface's keyboard has no battery and no other connector than the proprietary surface pogo pins, so no way to make it work wirelessly.
Oh wow, I got an Eve V years ago because it could do that and thought it was a budget Surface, so I always figured the Surface could do that, too. Now Eve's out of the game and I'm looking to replace mine. Does anyone do that anymore?
...the iPad cover keyboard, maybe?
Oh cool. Glad it's not ARM. Way more distro options.
I was thinking to get a beelink with the n100, but this couls be a more interesting choice... Hmm..
I'm genuinely intrigued by the potential use cases for this Linux tablet.
In my opinion:
It's too large to fit comfortably in a pocket, necessitating some form of bag for transport;
It's too large to hold comfortably on the sofa, such as when reading an ebook;
It seems underpowered for its size;
The keyboard quality appears subpar for a device of this size (I haven't tried it, but we all know how these keyboards typically feel);
It won't replace a smartphone and therefore won't take over its casual entertainment tasks;
For casual tech activities, I have a Pinephone with a keyboard. Despite the phone's lack of power and the keyboard's quality, its portability and form factor are hard to beat.
It’s too large to hold comfortably on the sofa, such as when reading an ebook;
lol I use a 13.3 inch boox max and the size is beautiful for reading.
I mean you ARE reading Stormlight Archive. If the screen wasn't that big you'd end up with a repetitive stress injury from flipping all the pages.
It's the 3 book set on kindle so Goodeads* has it at 3800 pages. Unfortunately it doesn't give page numbers in book, which I find super annoying. I've been working on it since 4th of July weekend, but because most of the time I have to read is audiobooks while doing other stuff, progress takes forever.
The beauty of the large device is less about fiction, though. I also prefer it there, but being able to fit 2 pages of textbooks/programming books that rely on more structured formatting is where it really shines. (I do regret taking the heavy discount on the Max instead of paying for the sidelit Lumi, though. Needing lighting can be annoying at times.)
On topic, it really is perfectly comfortable to hold. While I do rest it in my lap a lot and set it up with a stand on a table occasionally, I have no issue with holding it either. It takes the second hand to turn pages if you hold it one handed but the actual holding it feels fine, and definitely better than a textbook in your lap.
*I want to move but nothing else works for me.
I want to move but nothing else works for me.
Have you tried Storygraph? That's what I've switched to and it can do 99% of the functionality I used on Goodreads just as well, the only thing missing for me is a similar setup for grouping books into multiple custom-ordered lists, but that wasn't a critical feature for me.
I've tried everything, pretty much.
Lists are the main reason everything else is broken. I have a list of 100-something nonfiction and a second list of 50-something books I consider high quality books on intelligence/what makes us tick/what we'll need for AI that I'm not willing to give up and I'm not willing to manually type one at a time to import somewhere else. I also have 500-something mysteries just to split those out from everything else, but that one's sloppier and less maintained and I don't care about it.
Eventually, I probably am going to manually do a lot of cleanup, but I'd rather do it when I'm ready to self host so I can completely structure the data the way I want. None of them really let you treat series as first class citizens either, which is how I'd prefer to organize my fiction. I'd prefer to display my fiction or sub-categories as "Karen Rose's Romantic Suspense", "Lee Child's Jack Reacher", "Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive", "CJ Archer's Glass and Steele" etc, and do a couple paragraphs on the style of each. I don't want to do that for all 10-30 books in each series.
I must do something for my noodle arms problem then 😅
I don't get it. I loved my 8" tablet, but they are extinct. I bought a 10" tablet but it is too big to use for a tablet. Who the hell is buying these 12" tablets.
I am surprised I am not seeing, "BuT LiNUx is FoSs hOw DaRE ThEY ChARGe FoR IT?!"
In the words of our Lord Richard M. Stallman, "Free as in freedom."
Seems like no stylus? If so it makes the starlite not very surface-like in my mind. Ain't a stylus the reason for something like this?
Ah damn yeah, I was just thinking that this device might be something I'd consider blowing my budget for, if it can replace multiple devices. But the lack of stylus on a device like this is huge let down.
How hard would it be to make it work with a third party stylus?
It depends.
You can basically always use the crappy ones made for general touchscreens to replicate your finger. You can't use a real one with features like Apple Pencil/surface pen/wacom without an extra layer built into the screen to recognize them.
FWIW, my daily driver is a Lenovo Yoga with Ubuntu and the active pen works just fine with that. That support is definitely there.
Sure, because the Yoga has the extra screen layer to support active pens. Linux isn't the problem.
it wouldn't be hard at all you just buy a stylus that works like a finger
With the catch that it works like a finger meaning fat and imprecise. A stylus like the surface has is more like a pen and needs hardware in the tablet to function.
Did you ever use the Nvidia Shield Tablet stylus? It was a very thin and precise passive stylus that worked on any touch screen. It was pretty nice. They probably only sold a handful of them, so there was no gen 2. I happen to know someone who was working on that project, so they let me play with it.
Not really. I've got a cheap stylus for my phone that acts like a pen, down to drawing fine lines too. It can't adjust the thickness of the line based on pressure, like my Wacom pad and pen for the PC, but for most things it works brilliantly :)
maybe 10 years ago
I have a surface and I love it. At the same time, I hardly use the stylus.
I'm sure it's the reason many get it, but I also think there's a large audience for a tablet without one.
I genuinely dont see the reason for a windows tablet without a stylus. Note-taking is nice with a stylus but for just holding it and watching videos or browsing a surface is honestly too unwieldly and the windows touch interface is also not great.
Agreed. Although I do use the stylus that came with my Galaxy Tab S7 for note-taking, that's the only time I use it. 95% of the time I just use the tablet for browsing the web or watching videos.
My thoughts exactly.
They do have a generic MPP active pen as a configuration option though
I'm not sure on Starlab's background or people's stance on them, but I think this looks pretty nice.
Coreboot, 3:2 aspect ratio, magnetic keyboard, aluminium finish, I'd say makes this a pretty compelling alternative to a surface. Specs aren't super beefy, but I don't think they need to be in this form factor. Introductory price on this seems nice, too.
And like a Surface, it puts a desktop OS onto a tablet, basically repeating Microsoft's mistake.
There's a difference between "not beefy" and a super crappy 1.00GHz Intel N200. A hardware OEM just needs to go to AMD and pick off the shelf whatever is the closest thing to Steam Deck's CPU.
Desktop OS on a tablet is fine and even preferred depending on what you want it for.
I have a surface and don't mind using full windows that way.
I agree with you. I got a surface go for some time because I wanted to travel with a mini computer that could do some coding with my preferred IDE, document editing, web browsing and a couple other tasks like a computer, even if it was slower.
At the same time it being a tablet was also very useful to watch movies in other rooms!
I used the stylus only because I was curious, but didn't used it more than a couple of weeks
If the use case is to use a tablet as a tablet, then a desktop OS is not fine. Source: Me and my Surface Pro 7 which is unusable without the type cover.
Gnome shell works well on my vivo as either a tablet or with the keyboard.
The DE itself is less of a problem than the applications. On my Steam Deck in game mode I use Angelfish as web browser because all the mainstream browsers are just bad for touch controls compared to ones specifically designed for touch. You see a similar complaint in Windows forums were they sag that original Edge was better for tablets than Chromium Edge.
Cool touch applications like Krita Gemini and Calligra Gemini died because "fuck that touch trend, fuck QtQuick, GTK forever". Now we're stuck with applications that need a touchpad or mouse...
Wut... GTK is one of the very few touch friendly toolkits on *nixen. And neither of those apps were ever GTK.
Of course they were never on GTK because at that time GTK was absolutely useless for anything touch and it didn't really change until libhandy became libadwaita and kinda-sorta became aligned with GTK but is also not part of GTK proper. Gimp is not touch-friendly. Modern Krita somewhat is, Krita Gemini totally was.
I also have a surface pro 7, how is it any less usable without the type cover than any other tablet without one?
Most Windows applications work like ass with touch. Most iPad and Android apps work best with touch.
I mean sure, but you have the flexibility of a fully featured computer. You could run Android apps on it if you really wanted that UX.
In my experience all that really means is that you're forced to use the stylus for precise taps or right click functionality sometimes.
Same flexibility would be there if the default OS was different. The same PC with Android-x86 would just as capable of booting other systems but the default experience would be touch (finger) friendly.
Cool. There is no stylus included, though.
No, but there is a virtual touchpad included in Windows that accomplishes the same thing. Different use cases exist and it sounds like an Android tablet fits yours better.
No Android-x86 tablets exist.
Well the desktop OS is what made me choose a Surface Go 1 as my main computer. And now that I've switched to Linux (Fedora), I'm even more thankful that you could apply every tutorial you found on the web for that tablet.
Well, presumably the Linux apps are a feature for the target audience. In terms of the OS UX itself, if you had never seen GNOME before, would you call it a desktop or a tablet UI?
I'd definitely prefer to have gone the AMD route for these, but N200 isn't that awful, no? At least comparable to some Skylake gens? Not that that's amazing in the modern day, but I'd say still capable enough with the included specs to not be too bogged down by some of the lighter distros.
Better off with a Chromebook 10/10 times if you need something low powered, but I think it's an interesting entry to the hardware space.
I doubt it's powerful enough to play back 4k videos smoothly and 1080p stretched to the native resolution doesn't look super great. If AMD didn't offer a vastly better alternative at similar cost, fine, but Ryzen Z1 and such are available.
I have an N100 box running as my Plex server. It has no problem transcoding multiple 4k videos at once. This processor is no M2 but it isn’t really a slouch either.
At 1 GHz? Sure about that? Even if my performance assumptions are off: something like the Steam Deck CPU surely still beats it, especially in low power.
It can clock up to 3.7 GHz and has a decent GPU for an Intel one. All I can say for sure is that it keeps up just fine.
I see no cooling vents, so apparently passive cooling only and massive downclocking. Still think an AMD chip would have been better.
I am of the opinion that if we keep waiting for the “perfect” Linux tablet, it will never exist. The specs of this unit are head and shoulders above any other Linux-dedicated tablet thus far.
I plan on buying one once I see a product review, and if it’s as good as I hope it will be, I hope that Linux users will support it with their wallets so we get more and better devices like this.
The best thing for me is that you can buy a battery for it on their site with instructions how to do the replacement. Nothing is glued together according to the manual (which probably makes it mory clunky than Surface but oh well). Coreboot is an icing on the cake.
It seems like Star Labs is pivoting away from making superheroes and finally decided to use their technology more responsibly!
Was looking for this comment.
I don't need this, I don't need this, I so need this... I mean I don't... fuck!
Well, this month I am already broke...
Always wanted to try a star labs product. What always stops me are the specs. Not enough ram or storage or CPU to justify the price. Even though I know the premium is there because they aren't just white labeled clevos like every other Linux focused PC company
Have a clevo and it sucks.Battery life is poory And the Fans go off for like no reason
Oh no. Man that sucks. Which one? The lemur pro by system76 was a clevo I had it for a bit and thought it was really good all around. I would have kept it but the specs on a M1 were just ridiculous compared to anything out there. No fans, no dust collection was something I didn't know I appreciated so much
It's a tuxedo. The xp15 gen 11 vor clevo PD50. i7 10th gen and a 2070 max q. And a 4k OLED. Battery life is about 50 min : (
I would LOVE an arm machine, but I need a GPU for work.
I got my eyes on the framework 16. I could leave the GPU at home and go for battery life. Or put it in and go into work mode.
I see soo many people complain about the CPU but if your CPU use too much power, your battery is going to take a big hit on battery life, unless the tablet now start at much higher prices. So the 6W form factor makes a lot of sense.
People complaining about it not being AMD. AMD just doesn't make good 6W CPU (other then custom one but that would cost a fortune for such a little company). Intel has been really experienced in this market.
To the people scared about video decoding, Intel has really good HW decoding so 4K isn't an issue. It's better then AMD's one on Linux from my own experience.
Finally this is a $600 tablet, so don't expect a workstation to run Blender. Linux runs well on weaker CPU. My school computer runs KDE Plasma with a few apps open without much trouble and it has a Intel Celeron N5100 and 4GB of RAM.
The problem is that tablets like this generally can't take advantage of the turbo boost on the CPU due to thermal throttling. I'll wait and see, but I expect it to perform worse than an N5100 laptop.
Wait and see
I wish I would have known about this before buying the Pinetab2. I didn't realize (completely my fault) that the Pinetab2 was a development unit without working wifi, bluetooth, camera and other issues. Once again, my fault, not Pine64's.
The point of a tablet is to be secure to use it with a touch interface. If you install just some vanilla Linux distro, that won't work. Is there any touch based interface for Linux that's worth using?
Gnome has a strong touch interface. You just don't see it when used in a desktop.
My Surface 3 Pro with Debian Stable would disagree. The Gnome desktop does pretty good without a keyboard.
Same here. I've got Debian stable on a Dell Latitude 2-in1 (can't remember the model number) and it works great with Gnome and I can flip the keyboard backwards and use it like a tablet. Although it is bulkier because it has a keyboard attached.
Interesting. Might give that try some time. I'd love to have a tablet with Linux.
Plasma should detect automatically when the keyboard is detached and then apply some changes to its desktop layout. There's also Plasma Mobile but I think that would not work well on the larger screen.
If I were StarLabs, I would probably default to BlissOS which is based on Android-x86 which means all regular Linux distributions are still feasible to install.
If only there was another group of touch first devices, preferably with even smaller screens, oh wait...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_for_mobile_devices
Yeah, I know I could just use Android or ChromeOS. But there's a reason why I prefer Linux.
You haven't read the list to the end, have you?
Gnome is actually amazing on a tablet. The touch gestures work well and it even does fancy stuff like pushes the content on your screen up when the on screen keyboard is active so you can see what you're typing. The only thing that really needs work is the on screen keyboard, however it is greatly improved by using the "Improved OSK" Gnome extension. If only it had swipe type.
Source: I recently acquired a hand me down Dell latitude 5175 which is an x86 tablet (can be found for cheap on eBay) so of course I had to install Linux on it. If anyone happens to be interested in using Linux on a Dell latitude 5175/5179 do note that deep sleep does not work and neither do the cameras. I also recommend Ubuntu LTS and using X11 instead of Wayland.
Android
Great RAM and SSD, but at the cost of a quad core processor at 1Ghz. Still, I'd consider it a bargain, especially at 500 with the keyboard, as it is right now.
I mean what high processing thing could you do on a tablet?
Opening up any excel file. Exporting any jpeg file from lightroom. Browsing more than one active tab at once. (the Web bloat is amazing)
3D modeling in Blender or maybe CAD of some sort.
Would absolutely get if it had a pen for drawing and notetaking, but otherwise I feel it's just a somewhat underpowered laptop in a neat form factor.
It does apparently
Oh damn, I may actually get it then
Very appealing for a travel device running a Linux kernel. On the product page, they also mention Open Warranty, which makes me believe it will be easily serviceable - this would be a big plus, especially for a travel tablet, being able to switch the disk easily.
Gnome is not so bad. It has a decent on screen keyboard that's very useable. I occasionally use it on my Dell 2-in-1 laptop.
That's an incredible price for 16gb of memory and a 512 ssd. Would be an upgrade from my 14" laptop. I just hope I don't have to wait multiple years to get it.
Yeah, but at the cost of a quad core processor at 1Ghz
It boosts faster tho, so for average usage it might be fine. It just will have trouble with anything that requires sustained use, which for me would probably just be compiling code or games, things I wouldn't try to do on a tablet.
I like compiling Gentoo on tablets
Are you Immolo? If not, I'll write a comment about this on his latest video.
I'm not. But I installed Gentoo on a x86 tablet, it was fun.
I didn't see anything in the article, but will it have stylus support?
Damn this might be an easy buy for $600
Does anyone have on-screen keyboard experience with Linux tablets?
GNOME Mobile should have a good one after purism started pushing it, right?
Any more info on this?
It's ok, but you really need the "improved OSK" gnome extension so you can have things like arrow keys, Ctrl, etc at all times. The keyboard is usually very good about popping up on it's own when you tap on a text field. If it does fail to auto show itself you can swipe up from the bottom of the screen and pull it up that way. There is no swipe to type but other than that and with the extension I mentioned before, it works well enough. Now there are issues on Wayland that makes it unbearable though so I would recommend you use X.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
In the market for a new laptop or perhaps a Microsoft Surface-like tablet style system?
Well, Star Labs have turned their StarLite laptop into a tablet.
I have to admit, I love the form factor on this giving you the best of both worlds.
You get a sweet fully Linux supported tablet, and you can hook it up to a magnetic keyboard to get a full laptop experience too.
This is a proper Linux system too with open-source firmware powered by coreboot and edk II with updates via LVFS.
They support and test many different configurations, and you get a decent warranty with it too allowing you to to take your computer apart, replace parts, install an upgrade, and use any operating system and even your firmware, all without voiding the warranty.
I'm a bot and I'm open source!
This is honestly quite interesting. I might get one, if only to play around with and see what cool stuff I can think of to do with it.
Also, their laptops look pretty sweet - I think it strikes a much better long-term balance between framework’s “plug-and-play” approach (which necessarily leads to a slightly clunkier and less sleek design) and Apple’s “inscrutable slab of electronics” approach.
Star’s approach requires more (dis)assembly time and care, but I think that’s fine. You can open up a Framework way more trivially, but well… how often do you honestly plan on disassembling your laptop? For me, it’s:
So, while I appreciate Framework’s approach… I’m honestly not going to crack the thing open more than 3 or 4 times, and hopefully only once or twice, so I am absolutely fine sacrificing super easy maintenance for an overall sleeker and more robust-feeling design.
I once had a laptop that let you upgrade the mobile graphics cards. It was incredible.
Framework’s newer 16” model lets you do that now, I think
Yes
I agree, I would say a reasonable limit for me would be:
I think anymore would be enough to deter me from doing it the 1 or 2 times a year I really need it.
The important bit not mentioned here is that FW machines are both user serviceable and user upgradable. No need to eat the cost or create the waste of replacing a perfectly good chassis and display, and then sell off the replaced mainboard on the market.
Looks like a dope little device but at that price I think I might be more interested in a Steam Deck.
Steam deck kinda sucks for media consumption as a handheld, and it's much heavier. But this thing isn't gonna game well 😅
I feel like no desktop OS maker has nailed transition to touch screen devices, but I have only recently gotten my first x86 tablet and have only used windows on it, so my experience is limited and I'm only judging from screenshots I have seen online.
(I guess steam OS can count as decent enough, but it's not available yet outside of steam deck and it's gaming focused)
P.S. I honestly would be happy with an iPad if it were not so limited and more non-mobile games were available for it
I think the issue with devices like this is that apps simply aren't optimized for use like this.
I have a Surface. Barely used it as a tablet really, there aren't a ton of uses and Windows in tablet mode is just awful.
With the keyboard it turns into a neat and portable mini laptop, which I love.
The Starlite seems neat, but with the current specs it feels like not quite a tablet yet not quite a laptop either.
Y'know what? I may just sell my iPad for this.
FWIW this thing is nowhere near as powerful as a modern iPad. Different universes.
True - but hell all I ever do with mine is watch videos and browse the web anyway...
Waste of an M1 processor honestly
My m1 has rwally crappy Battery life
oooo this thing looks awesome, I want one.
I've always been fascinated by this type of form factor.
Wow, the price and openness of both the firmware and warranty make this a very enticing product. I've been casually looking for a new laptop, something to just watch youtube, browsing and manage my home lab with.
I checked out the actual product page, and it's a bit confusing in the configurator. Seems like the default power adaptor is non-us by default. Easy enough to change, no cost variance. But the keyboard section is confusing. Additional layout options for +~$110. Does that mean a secondary keyboard? What's the default?
EDIT: Any keyboard is not included, after finally finding the "what's in the box" in the specifications section. So, factor in an extra $100 in the price if ya need it.
This looks great and seems very reasonably priced. Pretty sure it won't replace my Android tablet but it might tempt me into trying.
The plus side of this is that there's not the Android situation where you just won't get OS updates at some point. The downside is that the 1GHz Intel CPU is trash.
Yeah, I am really disappointed it isn't running on an ARM processor.
Their notebook does, though, so maybe in the future.
Okay but the real question is does the keyboard use QMK? Mnt Reform has set the standard for open source laptops imo, if I can't program my keyboard then that is a massive downside.
Just use kmonad?
Didn't know about this. I'd still like QMK since I like having hardware level control, but this looks like something I'd use in conjunction with QMK. I should try setting it up this weekend. Thanks!
Coreboot too
hmm interesting I might get this
WiFi AC is interesting, mostly because AX has a lot of improvements for congestion
They are using older/more affordable chipsets
Hm, I'm interested, although I've gotten by just fine running Linux on my old Surface Pro 3
I'm running endeavour os on a Lenovo duet 3. It's fully functional including the gyroscope, which is super damn amazing. Windows basically wouldn't run, but I feel like a super user when in using endeavor on it. It's so good.
Once again GoL blog spam. Original source: https://starlabs.systems/pages/starlite
I support linking the original site as a general rule, but I don't think GamingOnLinux is blog spam. He curates information from a variety of places, provides a quick accessible summary, and very clearly links back to the article he's referencing.
In this specific case, his table of specs is far more readable and accessible than the obnoxious advertising product page is.
GamingOnLinux is the OMG!Ubuntu of Linux gaming, a website several link aggregators rightfully banned.
GOL does less summarizing of hard to read sources than Phoronix and even Phoronix is questionable lots of times.
If GOL does some original reporting: Fine. If GOL summarizes discussions from bug trackers and mailing lists: Fine.
If GOL just rewords content that right there in the original source: Blog spam.
I see no problem with https://starlabs.systems/pages/starlite-specification which is accessible from the hard to miss drop down menu at the top.
Cleaning up the key points of an original source (especially a dumpster fire product ad page like that specifically designed to obscure relevant details behind nonsense formatting) isn't spam.
I have no opinion on whether this is blogspam, but the UX on that page is terrible (on mobile at least). I need to click to expand every section (9 times). And to make it worse, expanding one section collapses the others.
Would you like some fries with your salt?
Thanks
Nice
Does the keyboard work while detached? When I travel, I like to plug the laptop into the TV and control it from across the room with a wireless keyboard and mouse. It would be nice not to have to pack a separate keyboard.
If it follows the Surface design, it doesn't. Surface's keyboard has no battery and no other connector than the proprietary surface pogo pins, so no way to make it work wirelessly.
Oh wow, I got an Eve V years ago because it could do that and thought it was a budget Surface, so I always figured the Surface could do that, too. Now Eve's out of the game and I'm looking to replace mine. Does anyone do that anymore?
...the iPad cover keyboard, maybe?
Oh cool. Glad it's not ARM. Way more distro options.
I was thinking to get a beelink with the n100, but this couls be a more interesting choice... Hmm..
I'm genuinely intrigued by the potential use cases for this Linux tablet.
In my opinion:
For casual tech activities, I have a Pinephone with a keyboard. Despite the phone's lack of power and the keyboard's quality, its portability and form factor are hard to beat.
lol I use a 13.3 inch boox max and the size is beautiful for reading.
I mean you ARE reading Stormlight Archive. If the screen wasn't that big you'd end up with a repetitive stress injury from flipping all the pages.
It's the 3 book set on kindle so Goodeads* has it at 3800 pages. Unfortunately it doesn't give page numbers in book, which I find super annoying. I've been working on it since 4th of July weekend, but because most of the time I have to read is audiobooks while doing other stuff, progress takes forever.
The beauty of the large device is less about fiction, though. I also prefer it there, but being able to fit 2 pages of textbooks/programming books that rely on more structured formatting is where it really shines. (I do regret taking the heavy discount on the Max instead of paying for the sidelit Lumi, though. Needing lighting can be annoying at times.)
On topic, it really is perfectly comfortable to hold. While I do rest it in my lap a lot and set it up with a stand on a table occasionally, I have no issue with holding it either. It takes the second hand to turn pages if you hold it one handed but the actual holding it feels fine, and definitely better than a textbook in your lap.
*I want to move but nothing else works for me.
Have you tried Storygraph? That's what I've switched to and it can do 99% of the functionality I used on Goodreads just as well, the only thing missing for me is a similar setup for grouping books into multiple custom-ordered lists, but that wasn't a critical feature for me.
I've tried everything, pretty much.
Lists are the main reason everything else is broken. I have a list of 100-something nonfiction and a second list of 50-something books I consider high quality books on intelligence/what makes us tick/what we'll need for AI that I'm not willing to give up and I'm not willing to manually type one at a time to import somewhere else. I also have 500-something mysteries just to split those out from everything else, but that one's sloppier and less maintained and I don't care about it.
Eventually, I probably am going to manually do a lot of cleanup, but I'd rather do it when I'm ready to self host so I can completely structure the data the way I want. None of them really let you treat series as first class citizens either, which is how I'd prefer to organize my fiction. I'd prefer to display my fiction or sub-categories as "Karen Rose's Romantic Suspense", "Lee Child's Jack Reacher", "Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive", "CJ Archer's Glass and Steele" etc, and do a couple paragraphs on the style of each. I don't want to do that for all 10-30 books in each series.
I must do something for my noodle arms problem then 😅
I don't get it. I loved my 8" tablet, but they are extinct. I bought a 10" tablet but it is too big to use for a tablet. Who the hell is buying these 12" tablets.
I am surprised I am not seeing, "BuT LiNUx is FoSs hOw DaRE ThEY ChARGe FoR IT?!"
In the words of our Lord Richard M. Stallman, "Free as in freedom."