Applesauce pouches may have been contaminated on purpose, FDA foods chief says

MicroWave@lemmy.world to News@lemmy.world – 356 points – Applesauce pouches may have been contaminated on purpose, FDA foods chief says
politico.com

Tainted cinnamon applesauce pouches that have sickened scores of children in the U.S. may have been purposefully contaminated with lead, according to FDA’s Deputy Commissioner for Human Foods Jim Jones.

“We’re still in the midst of our investigation. But so far all of the signals we’re getting lead to an intentional act on the part of someone in the supply chain and we’re trying to sort of figure that out,” Jones said in an exclusive interview. The pouches found to be contaminated were sold under three brands — Weis, WanaBana and Schnucks — that are all linked to a manufacturing facility in Ecuador. The FDA says it’s conducting an inspection of that facility.

“My instinct is they didn’t think this product was going to end up in a country with a robust regulatory process,” Jones said. “They thought it was going to end up in places that did not have the ability to detect something like this.”

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This is where those US based companies should get absolutely reamed. Want to profit off cheap labor and raw materials from developing countries with “lax” controls? Then you should face all consequences and lost profits. No “blaming” some other supplier.

China executed mfers when companies sold tainted baby milk powder.

I'm not a huge fan of China, but I'll admit they're doing at least one thing right.

Lead is sweet. That’s why kids eat paint chips.

Someone saved money on sugar and biocide.

The reason why I tacked this on after your comment is that you are on to something.

Sugar is way too cheap to use lead these days. 100 years ago this would have been plausible to me, but not today.

Lead is used as a plastic softener, and these packages were likely not rated for food usage and whoever bought them online hadn't checked for FDA approval for food safety before purchasing. It could have been something as simple as someone accidentally using the wrong materials in the factory too.

I thought the lead was in the cinnamon used?

Oh yeah, I do remember hearing that. Still might be the packaging for whatever they ship the cinnamon in, but I do know that plants can also take up heavy metals in the soil, so multiple possible avenues for contamination. I'm sure the fda will figure it out.

You remember hearing that? Do you remember where? Was it maybe the article from this post? No, that couldn't be it, because you clearly didn't read it.

A previous article posted, actually. This article was careful to mention they haven't decided on the source of contamination.

I have long covid memory problems, thanks for reminding me I'm still sick, I really didn't need that but here you are being helpful!

Makes me wonder how much lead will flow into humans now that lead fuel is forbidden everywhere but lead food packaging is on the rise

Leaded fuel is forbidden for ground vehicles. It is still legal in airplane fuel.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/20/aviation-lead-fuel-00081641

We have a lot more work to do.

Oh, well, that's just another nice thing to learn about how everyone is fucked. I even think I read about that but forgot maybe because I wanted to beleave lead to be gone ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Still, less overall lead in our environment and the crime rate has been dropping ever since we took it out of gasoline, so it's not all bad. Unfortunately, the world's leaders mostly come from the lead era.

Only because they got caught. Everyone in the chain knew. The govt knew. They just got caught.

Ok Alex Jones sure, now tell us about the chinese lizard people....

I'm guessing your source for this is 'it feels like it must be true because they're baddies'?

Go watch interviews of western expats that moved there and Chinese citizens that talk about their experience living there and growing up there. There's also a few China News channels on YT and other places. The info is NOT hard to find if you try just a bit. The corruption in China is out of control. There are huge groups of younger people refusing to participate in the system. A China civil war is very much brewing as the system teeters on the edge of an economic cliff.

Yes and a lot of Chinese people I've spoken to belive all the same stuff about America and the west lol, it's a simple game really and exactly the one Alex Jones plays - point at a few exaggerated accounts of genuinely bad things and extrapolate into the stratosphere without ever once checking your work.

Of course China has corruption and infighting because everywhere does, that doesn't mean the whole system is a conspiracy.

How about jailing responsible execs? Money wrist slaps notoriously don't do shit

Keep increasing the penalty until it actually has an effect.

Even if it never changes their behavior, all the free money can be used for other things until they go out of business.

There should be a tiered system, too. First offenders just have to pay a certain amount to cover all expenses and then some. Subsequent offenders should have to pay more, probably double at the minimum.

Just like how insurers increase rates when we use their services, taxpayers should increase rates for businesses that use their services.

It never had an effect as the fines are built in, it's cost of business for them and they fuck over more than the fined van ever make right. Jail the fuckers.

When you read these stories just remember the leaders who profit off these products are shielded from their cost saving decisions. Late stage capitalism y'all.

What the fuck are you talking about? You don't think socialist and communist countries with factories run by psychos poisoning people are profiting from these products without repercussions?

These two are not opposing viewpoints, you understand that right?

They don't, because these tankies have never lived in a communist hell hole. They think everyone will be holding hands and working hard labor for the same pay as them while they play and do nothing all day.

I would like to know more about the time you spent in a communist hell hole. What was it like?

My entire family is from ex ussr states....most still live in them...go fuck off with that tankie shit.

How is it “tankie” to ask a question? You seem hostile to any beliefs not your own.

That wasn't a question, you act like the communism is better than what we have now via your wording.

There are plenty of first hand accounts on YT. A friend of mine is Cuban and lived it. Another is Venezuelan. They both speak English well. Just because you've never known someone that lived under communism, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

So, if I go find some homeless people who have spent their whole lives on the street, and ask them to speak on the quality of life under capitalism, are they going to tell me that capitalism is the ideal system?

Or will they call this a capitalist hell hole?

Survivorship Bias. You are speaking to those who chose to leave socialism/communism. Of course they are going to be critical of it. In the same way an American that chooses to emigrate to Cuba would be critical of capitalism.

we’re trying to sort of figure that out

Well that inspires confidence.

I think it's just a literal quote of how he spoke, and not an attempt at waffling around an answer. The guy seems to have a goal in mind in the article.

Why does child food need to be produced thousands of miles away?

Cheap labor, mostly.

Ah, right. How much are the CEOs making as compared to their lowest paid workers?

I know you're not trying to justify it. Just some horse balls is all.

Even if they moved production back to the US, they would just raise prices so we're paying more.

It’s perfectly fine to do that because it increases economic prosperity across the globe, as long as we have regulatory controls. I don’t know, but I think finding this out and being able to find the source of contamination is a win for the FDA, and shows that some part of the process in place does work.

Seriously. Take an apple, throw it in a blender. That was easy.

Great, now you've added arsenic but forgot the cinnamon. Not so easy after all, was it?!

And that doesn’t even tackle the problem of getting it pasteurized to rid it of microorganisms or trying to keep it shelfstable for more than a few days of transport, let alone getting it on the shelf long enough to be sold. 

Who’s trying to do that? I’m talking about feeding your kid an apple.

Sorry, I'll provide more detailed instructions.

  • cut the apple in two. Remove the seeds and stem
  • add spices and maybe sugar
  • gently place it into a blender, with filtered water as needed
  • turn it on
  • pour it into something

I guess if we're dealing with people who don't understand the basics of food, they might want to buy leaded applesauce from Ecuador since their kids are probably doomed anyway.

Lead is in the spices. The spices come from many different sources.

https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-safety/your-herbs-and-spices-might-contain-arsenic-cadmium-and-lead-a6246621494/

I’ve read that too. Spices aren’t contaminated to the extent of the sauces that were recalled though. I guess if you’re concerned, you can eat macrobiotic and/or test your soil and grow everything yourself. Of course not everyone can do that though and most climates won’t work for all spices or herbs.

My kid is gonna love his dill apple smoothie

Come on. What kid is going to have dill in a smoothie?

Paprika. That's what you put in a kids' smoothie.

Dill, parsley, chives and juniper grows here. What am I to do?

Guess your baby is going to starve.

Although parsley does make a good garnish to the dill apple baby food.

Get a cold frame for your peppers like everyone else in a cold environment, they grow field peppers in Quebec for heavens sake. Paprika is not out of your reach.

Of course paprika is doable. But dill seems like a great apple spice.

That'll give you a crappy excuse for applesauce. Got to peel, core, and slice the apples then cook it in the spices and cider until soft, then mash, sweeten, and reduce.

maybe if you want to preserve it but otherwise probably healthier to eat it raw. I’m fine with just puréed fruit.

I read the article. Is this because lead has a sweet, appealing flavor? I remember reading this was a huge problem at certain times and places.

That would be similar to that fucked up thing that happened in China where some corrupt companies were putting a plastic resin in milk to cheat protein level tests.

It happens in all the poorer Asian countries with turmeric too, https://www.economist.com/asia/2023/11/02/bangladesh-strikes-a-blow-against-lead-poisoning -- classic capitalism, if they can make a couple of dollars more they won't even lose a night's sleep over poisoning millions of people.

We really do need to fund food safety organisations well, these regulations and authorities the right wing keep trying to get rid of are incredibly important to our safety and wellbeing.

Absolutely. The US Conservative jerk-off about 'regulation harming the economy' is one of their most ridiculous and disingenuous/ignorant positions. It's easy to see what happens with lack of regulation - people all the way from seniors to infants get poisoned by lazy and greedy business owners.

Yeah, this wasn't someone with a grudge against children poisoning their food, this was an willfully negligent decision made by the producers to make the product more profitable

Lead(II,IV) Oxide (aka red lead) is sometimes used to color low-quality cinnamon to look better. Much like yellow led is sometimes used to color turmeric. Toxic, of course, but profitable!

Is there a way that someone can test for this at home? It seems troubling that children had to be poisoned before any action was taken.

All these say no sugar added. Lead tastes sweet. So I guess that counts as an alternative sweetener?

TBF the Romans used to use lead as a sweetener all the time. While it can't have done them much good it can't have been immediately fatal or they'd have stopped. If it was intended as a sweetener in this case someone must have seriously fucked up the dosage. And I'd have thought they'd go for cheaper and easier ways to make the product taste sweeter, like aspartame or saccharine.

or lie and just fucking put sugar in it.

That's what I would expect

Oh make no mistake about it, I fully expect them to sweeten children's applesauce with lead instead of sugar so it can be marketed as "no sugar added." That's what businesses do. If they can make a buck by poisoning children, they will make the decision to poison children. Every single time.

I am sick and tired of sharing a genome with these creatures.

Username checks out

(Sorry, I know this is a serious issue, but my brain is fried and I couldn't resist. To be clear, I fully agree with everything you've said here.)

Lead accumulates in the body. So small exposure adds up and by then it's too late

Humans are really fucked. No wonder all these billionaires don't want to help anyone but themselves.

This is sad indeed and this person is a wretch, but most of humanity is perfectly fine. There are some awful people and they make the news and are talked about cus we love gossip.

But have faith in humanity. Most of it is just like you and wants things to be good and tons of them go out there and do good, we just rarely talk about them or encourage others to do good for their community.

It only takes a tiny percentage of people being fucked up to cause a lot of damage

It's true but like... Not all of us are a fucking waste of air... Most of us, sure, but not all of us.

The source of contamination is possibly a production facility in Ecuador, possibly due to using a cheaper cinnamon alternative. I thought I should post this because comments are wrongly asserting (I think) that a person in a U.S. production supply chain did this. It seems less malicious and more cost-savings oriented, which is why regulations and policies help save people from bottomline focused tendencies.

The FDA continues to investigate a number of theories for how the pouches became contaminated, and has not drawn any conclusions about the way the lead was added, why or by whom. The FDA says it currently believes the adulteration is “economically motivated.” That generally refers to ingredients being altered in order to make products appear higher in value, often so companies can produce a cheaper item and sell it at an elevated price.

which is why regulations and policies help save people from bottomline focused tendencies.

But the free market!

Well, if anybody is an expert on poisoned kid's drinks it's Jim Jones.

Right? I was gonna look it up to make sure that name is the one I was thinking of.

For others maybe not familiar, if you have ever heard the phrase "they drank the kool-aid" a cult leader also named Jim Jones ran a cult informally called JonesTown. If you have a strong stomach and a curiosity about how cult "life" can be, there is a pretty detailed Wikipedia article on it. Spoiler alert, the ending of the story is one of the worst parts. And also how we can be certain this is a different Jim Jones.

And also it was "flavor-aid", but details don't always make it into the memes.

Jim Jones is such a fascinating character because of how much good he did. He fought for social justice, championed racial equality and tried to help the poor. He was beloved by his community and civic leaders. But...behind the curtain he was an abusive megalomaniac that led hundreds of people to their death.

I am amazed what he got arrested for, how it didn't work out, but mostly what he wasn't arrested for. The Wikipedia article states that problems were mounting for at least a couple of years, and he was paranoid about being arrested (not without ground, surely) but why nothing was done until he relocated and ordered a massacre is beyond me

I think he had built so many bridges with so many people in his community and in politics that no one wanted to be the one that turned against him.

But…behind the curtain he was an abusive megalomaniac that led hundreds of people to their death.

This is true far too often about people who are public goods (not the leading hundreds to their death part obviously).

"Robust regulatory processes" my fucking ass dude. Food recalls happen ALL THE TIME in the US (AFTER all the kids get sick and die, mind you) and this fucking clown wants to talk about how great our FDA is? What a joke! And youll think well, maybe its just the cheaper brands and you would be wrong. Name brands and off brands all get contaminated I swear I see it at least once a month. Just google food recalls in the past year. Not only that, a lot of the literal poison they put in our food is illegal everywhere else. UK just seized thousands of pounds of candy from us because of "illegal ingredients" What fucking deception to say that our FDA is even remotely competent. If I didnt live here, I would NEVER eat the food from here

Isn't the high amount of recalls the evidence of the processes working?

This feels like saying "our border is insecure! Look at all the drugs we confiscated!"

A "robust regulatory process" wouldnt have 10 million plus jars of peanut butter with E Coli contamination make it to the store shelves and take months to figure out about, AFTER some people die. That happened like 1 to 2 years ago. Now a bunch of kids get lead poisoning from Applesauce pouches so we take them off the shelves and act like we have some amazing system. How about those cancer causing dyes that california is banning andNOW the FDA is talking about, PERHAPS banning them nationwide. Our FDA is trash.

So do you want them to do more or less? It seems you're arguing both sides to just complain.

What about my comments seem like its supporting that I want them to do less?

as much as having overwhelmed hospitals is an indication of a thriving healthcare system... it would be better to have less recalls and better regulation of products to market, and similarly better to have affordable preventative healthcare to keep people out of hospitals in the first place.

Ah, so you would want the FDA to have broader powers and scope to reach into companies to do more preventative maintenance. Yeah, that would probably help.

Just more inspections of the supply chain. The FDA is very reactive.

Yes exactly. Maybe not more scope, but more exercise of their current powers.

Just another reason to avoid anything processed. I turned away from processed foods a decade or so ago and my health has never been better. Yes…all those additives are generally recognized as safe, but when you dig into it, no…no they are not especially on your gut health. That is aside from contamination risks like this situation. Why put your health in the hands of a corporation when you can eat whole foods that are much harder to tamper with.

I just tell my toddler if he wants applesauce he'll have to make it from scratch. I'd make it for him but who has the time these days, you know? Anyway, once I've turned on the blender and stove for him he's good to go. Nothing but whole foods for my little one.

There is a point where some fruits are more dangerous than others to give a toddler, such as grapes.

But you can bulk make a lot of purees with a hand mixer. On the weekend I would batch cook and bulk freeze a lot of different purees before they could have solid food. There's these silicone trays a little larger than ice trays you can use to freeze the purees, then put them on a ziplock bag and pull one or two out to defrost in the microwave real quick.

You don't have to use everything fresh, you can use frozen fruits/veggies and even do Passata - Strained Tomatoes no salt added, with spaghetti, or Mac n cheese. We had concerns about the level of salt in premade foods so we made our own on the weekend and froze it all. Low sodium lentil soups are ok too.

It ended up being a lot cheaper just to spend an hour on the weekend batch cooking for the kid and batch cooking for lunches to take to work too.

Finally I got a little plastic masher and used that, as soon as they were old enough do it themselves. They wouldn't eat anything they mashed at first but they loved playing with it.

Now they just grab apples and other fruit straight from the fridge.

Our doctor said not to give them juice or fruit packs at all. The doctor did say chocolate milk mixed with regular milk is a good treat that's safe and hydrating tho.

It's honestly saved me time and money just to put in an hours work on the weekends instead of buying premade.

Wow. Eat organic and local I guess?

Lead is organic.

Organic = contains carbon. Lead, as a base metal, does not contain carbon. So lead is definitively not organic.

The problem is, all that food that isn't labeled as organic? It is organic. Which is why that label is really fucking stupid.

That’s organic chemistry which is very different from the definition of organic food.

As far as I can tell they used the word 'organic' when it came to agriculture because it sounded cool.

I mean we'd been using organic and synthetic in that context for decades so it was a fairly obvious choice really. I think a lot of math focused people don't really understand the complexity of the English language, or any language really, there isn't a singular definition, defined space, or underlying principal for words they get their meaning from usage and context.

Aliens won't have derived the same words as us but they will have determined the same relationships between 0, 1, 2, etc - organic food is just a word for a grouping that people needed a shorthand to refer to.

Or avoid processed foods and just eat plain apples. If you can. Sometimes they're hard as rocks.

Geez where are you getting your apples?

Black Market Minerals, they're branching out into fresh produce in my neighborhood. I think.

I can't believe any parent would walk right past the organic/local section at the dollar store and pick up lead pouches instead, but here we are.