UN says Israeli tanks burst through gates of peacekeeper base

girlfreddy@lemmy.ca to World News@lemmy.world – 640 points –
reuters.com

The United Nations said on Sunday Israeli tanks had burst through the gates of a base of its peacekeeping force in southern Lebanon, the latest accusation of Israeli violations and attacks that have been denounced by Israel's own allies.

Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called on the United Nations to evacuate the troops of the UNIFIL peacekeeping force from combat areas in Lebanon. Hours later, the force reported what it described as additional Israeli violations, including two Israeli Merkava tanks destroying the main gate of a base and forcibly entering before dawn that morning.

Soon after the tanks left, shells exploded 100 metres away, releasing smoke which blew across the base and sickened U.N. personnel, causing 15 to require treatment despite wearing gas masks, it said. It did not say who fired the shells or what sort of toxic substance it suspected.

It also accused Israel's IDF military of halting a logistics convoy. The Israeli military did not immediately respond to the statement.

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They are literally attacking the UN and still we are expected to provide unquestioning support?

The US will send an antimissile system to Israel as well as a crew of US military personnel to operate the system.

You know, even though it's still rewarding Israel's actions in a way, out of all the support the US is giving, this one I probably mind the least. It will prevent further innocent deaths (regardless of what side they are on, this is always a net positive), and it can't be used by Israel against the Palestinian and Lebanese people. Let the US take over all of the defense of Israel if it means they stop delivering bombs and missiles that Israel will use to further their genocide.

That's not how it will play out. By unconditionally defending Israel from counter-attack they're emboldening them to keep fighting and provoking whoever they want. The Israelis know they're immune to any repercussions from their aggression. They have nothing to fear, and will only further their attacks because of it. This will create more innocent deaths, not less.

Honestly, it makes me pretty angry that we’re providing defensive support like this to Israel, but not to Ukraine. It’s a blatant and huge double standard.

Let me guess, it's not "boots on the ground".because they're wearing sneakers?

This isn't new. They've been assassinating UN mediators since before they were even granted Statehood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte

The assassination was organized by Yitzhak Shamir, who was later elected prime minister of Israel.

Israel is the Grim Reaper for UN. And a beloved adopted child of US who doesn't care of its actual child UN. What a dysfunctional family

Their hoping these "accidents" will convince the UN to leave...

They were told to evacuate. They didn't.

I’m telling you to evacuate your house, if you don’t I’ll just fucking kill you. If you don’t evacuate your own house I’ll also call the police and tell them you had it coming because I told you to evacuate and you refused. I see no flaw in your logic at all.

Don't evacuate, you might be killed. It's really not that hard of a concept.

Yeah no you’re just trying to justify another war crime committed by the settler colonial apartheid genociders.

The funny thing is that your logic is so poorly thought that you could apply it to all the attacks against Israel.

"Hey, Israelis, we're gonna bomb your homes! You better evacuate if you don't want to die!"

You don't tell the fucking UN to evacuate because you want to attack someone.

The UN holds zero authority when I'm putting my country's best interests forward.

Just as the rest of the Western world is better served by not getting entangled into the genocidal actions of the religious extremists now running Iran Israel

The UN has more athority over Lebenon, than Isreal. Note Hezbula is not a terrorist as they clame but a legitimate party in Lebinan and following lebenise law.

I also want to point out that the UN was there for the spupervised demiliterization of Hezbula with the assistence of Lebenon, the same reason Isreal is claiming to be attacking... also isreal did do an indiscriminant bombing on civilian centers so I would be a little quiet as your contry is quite literaly being the very open baddy in this situation

The Zionists don't want witnesses. Thats why they've murdered 170 journalists in Gaza.

Why would they care? The whole world is witnessing it and no one is doing anything to stop them.

Because it's easy to pull a trigger to permanently silence people who might become a slight inconvenience at most.

The UN troops have the right to defend themselves.

Especially with the Leclercs.

What's the cannon for?

Rapid demilitarization.

I don't see how it would do that.

Edit: Unless you mean its for blowing itself up?

You clearly aren't familiar with the French military beyond memes.

You just need to know 3 words.

Nuclear Warning Shot.

I'd like to be enlightened on the "nuclear warning shot" method the French have

Mechanically it's a small nuke on a medium range Air to Surface Missile. They straight up told everyone it's entire purpose is as "the last warning shot" before their nuclear missile submarines fire their entire load of nuclear ballistic missiles.

The other way I've heard the French cold war doctrine reasoned is, "we may not be able to stop the Russians at the Fulda Gap, but we're all going to be picking through the rubble together this time."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

France is one of the five "Nuclear Weapons States" under the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, but is not known to possess or develop any chemical or biological weapons.[4][5] France is the only member of the European Union to possess independent (non-NATO) nuclear weapons. France was the fourth country to test an independently developed nuclear weapon, doing so in 1960 under the government of Charles de Gaulle. The French military is currently thought to retain a weapons stockpile of around 300[6] operational (deployed) nuclear warheads, making it the fourth-largest in the world, speaking in terms of warheads, not megatons.[7] The weapons are part of the country's Force de dissuasion, developed in the late 1950s and 1960s to give France the ability to distance itself from NATO while having a means of nuclear deterrence under sovereign control.

Has anyone informed Scorpius?!

Seriously though, Israel has proven over and over again that it has no respect for the UN whatsoever. Maybe it's time to kick them out, at least until they have a fucking non-genocidal government.

Seems like UN is Hamas.

I had a good feeling you were being sarcastic... but I have former acquaintances who have unironically posted things along the lines of "The UN says Israel's doing war crimes? They must have been paid off by Hamas."

So yeah, hard to tell nowadays.

You can't possibly believe that.

I thought "X is Hamas" is a fairly well established meme on Lemmy by this point.

Like I said elsewhere: Poe's Law. There are people who actually believe that sort of nonsense unfortunately.

Edit: In fact, someone just replied to me agreeing with you, except they're serious.

Oh, but they do Squid. Their comment/post history tells the story.

That's not true. You should look again at their comment history. Their comment above was making fun of Israel's tendency to retroactively label whoever they kill as Hamas.

You're either perpetuating the deep sarcasm or you ain't reading right. 😅 If the former - applause.

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What have those "peacekeepers" been doing for the past 20 years, aside from watching while Hezbollah turns southern Lebanon into a terrorist base? Do they snack on popcorn while watching Hezbollah's rockets fly into Israel?

Maybe you could look into it. Do you think there might be some sort of big global network of computers full of information you could use to find out?

You should use that network to look up "rhetorical question"

Your rhetorical question better be backed up with evidence if you don't want it getting deleted.

Edit: 9 hours later... no evidence.

The evidence is the fact that the UN has been stationed in southern Lebanon since 2006 and in that time Hezbollah has established bases all across the region, which is in direct violation of UN Resolution 1701, and now the IDF is coming across those bases and weapons caches within spitting distance of UN watchtowers. And even after Hezbollah declared war on Israel by launching rockets into Israel starting on Oct 8, 2023, those same UN peacekeepers have done nothing to stop them and have tried to prevent Israel from retaliating.

So although it was a rhetorical question, it really wasn't.

Sorry, you just declaring things to be the case is not evidence. No one has any reason to just take your word for it.

You get one more chance to provide actual evidence before you're out of here for spreading misinformation.

This is hilarious. I have to provide evidence for what literally everyone knows is happening in the world right now? Okay, here we go. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-strikes-lebanon-after-hezbollah-hits-shebaa-farms-2023-10-08/ https://abcnews.go.com/International/hezbollah-rocket-attacks-northern-israel-spark-fires-destroy/story?id=111593691 https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/10/13/isarel-military-lebanon-south-hezbollah-war/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/un-peacekeepers-confirm-existence-of-tunnel-from-lebanon-into-israel/ (This is a good one. UNIFIL found a tunnel from Lebanon into Israel back in 2018 and said, "We'll speak to the Lebanese authorities about it." Well done.)

Sorry, none of that backs up your misinformation post that the UN peacekeepers have done nothing in Lebanon for the past 20 years but "snack on popcorn" while Hezbollah fires missiles.

None of that suggests that UNIFIL does nothing. In fact, if UNIFIL found that tunnel, they were doing something.

So you just admitted yourself that your initial comment was misinformation. You're gone.

I talked with Squid about this and we're restoring your comments. It looks to me like you both managed to talk right past each other.

You're right, the UN hasn't really done a thing to enforce resolution 1701. But then, when have UN troops EVER managed to enforce ANY resolution?

I'm old enough to remember George W. Bush arguing in favor of invading Iraq going "They're violating 17 UN resolutions!" and the reaction from sane people was "Yeah? And Israel is violating 80? 90? We going to invade Israel too?"

Where Squid went off was the whole "UN doing nothing" thing. It's pretty clear to me you MEANT nothing about 1701, but they are doing a lot of good humanitatarian work on the ground, you know, when Israel isn't SHOOTING AT THEM.

https://peacekeeping.un.org/en/mission/unifil

"Following the July/August 2006 crisis, the Council enhanced the Force and decided that in addition to the original mandate, it would, among other things, monitor the cessation of hostilities; accompany and support the Lebanese armed forces as they deploy throughout the south of Lebanon; and extend its assistance to help ensure humanitarian access to civilian populations and the voluntary and safe return of displaced persons."

If you need to blame somebody for failing to disarm Hezbollah, and it's obvious to anyone they have NOT disarmed, look toward the Lebanese army.

More on the UN mandate in regards to 1701 here:

https://unifil.unmissions.org/unifil-mandate

"Assist the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) in taking steps towards the establishment between the Blue Line and the Litani river of an area free of any armed personnel, assets and weapons other than those of the Government of Lebanon and of UNIFIL deployed in this area.

Assist the Government of Lebanon, at its request, in securing its borders and other entry points to prevent the entry in Lebanon without its consent of arms or related materiel."

The UN is not there to enforce the disarmament of Hezbollah. That's the job of the Lebanese, it's their country. The UN is purely there to assist.

Thank you. I didn't really understand what I did to warrant a ban.

I’m old enough to remember George W. Bush arguing in favor of invading Iraq going “They’re violating 17 UN resolutions!” and the reaction from sane people was “Yeah? And Israel is violating 80? 90? We going to invade Israel too?”> Okay, but also not analogous. Bush used this as justification for invading another country that didn't pose a threat to the US.

Where Squid went off was the whole “UN doing nothing” thing. It’s pretty clear to me you MEANT nothing about 1701, but they are doing a lot of good humanitatarian work on the ground, you know, when Israel isn’t SHOOTING AT THEM.> I'm sure they are. They're just not doing what they're supposed to be doing with respect to 1701, and their failure to do so poses an existential threat to Israel. I'm sure you're aware that in recent days the IDF has uncovered both Hezbollah plans to carry out a 10/7-style attack but on a larger scale, and multiple instances of Hezbollah operating from positions within very close proximity to UNIFIL positions. Kinds looks like UNIFIL has basically been providing cover for Hezbollah.

And you know full well that the Lebanese are controlled by Hezbollah. Unless they want to plunge the country into another devastating civil war, they're not going to challenge Hezbollah.

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Fun fact: an Israeli paramilitary assassinated a UN mediator in 1948 because they were afraid his peace deal wouldn't be good for the Israeli State

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte

The assassination was organized by Yitzhak Shamir, later elected prime minister of Israel.

Zionists have always been terrorists, attacking the UN since before they were even given an official State.

This is fucking disgusting, and a testament that Israel believes they have so much control over the narrative by Cambridge Analiticising the major social networks and their owners that they feel they can get away with it. If there's one thing I agree with Israel now, it's that the UN was certainly wrong - by choosing after WW2, to legitimize the Nazi Haavara Agreements on partitioning Mandatory Palestine and enabling the neocolonialism that became Israel hidden under the faint veil of religious superiority claims. What the persecuted minorities needed were their homes and their wealth back, not an appointed figurehead to lead them into colonialism 2.0.

They're controlling the narrative by learning who will vote for who in the US by using "which harry Potter character are you" apps on Facebook?

I don't see the connection between Israeli Hasbara and what Cambridge Analytica did.

In its version of events, the Israeli military said militants of the Iran-backed group Hezbollah had fired anti-tank missiles at Israeli troops, wounding 25 of them. The attack was very close to a UNIFIL post and a tank helping evacuate the casualties under fire then backed into the UNIFIL post, it said. "It is not storming a base. It is not trying to enter a base. It was a tank under heavy fire, mass casualty event, backing up to get out of harm's way," the military's international spokesperson Nadav Shoshani told reporters. In a statement, the military said it used a smoke screen to provide cover for the evacuation of the wounded soldiers but its actions posed no danger to the U.N. peacekeeping force.

OK, sounds plausible enough...

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in a statement addressed to U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres: "The time has come for you to withdraw UNIFIL from Hezbollah strongholds and from the combat zones." "The IDF has requested this repeatedly and has met with repeated refusal, which has the effect of providing Hezbollah terrorists with human shields

You want to have your cake and eat it too. Why do you want the peacekeepers out? Why not coordinate with them?

“I was just taking my tank platoon for a stroll on your lawn”

Why do you want the peacekeepers out? Why not coordinate with them?

Because the Peacekeepers aren't there to fight a war, that's not their role. The real question is, what are they still there for? There is no real answer from the UN about this. Their mission was to try to disarm Hezbollah, which they clearly they didn't accomplish. Now Hezbollah is using the weapons the UN was supposed to remove (but didn't) to fight the IDF. And the UN is apparently just going to leave Peacekeepers stranded in the middle of a warzone because they're still pretending there isn't a war happening? Or are they hoping for a conflict to occur between the Peacekeeping force and the IDF? Like is the UN now trying to escalate the conflict? Really, what are they trying to accomplish?

Sure, never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence and the UN is a very incompetent organization. But this is getting so it goes beyond being able to be explained by incompetence.

Yeah, is the UN trying to escalate the conflict by being attacked, blown up and chemical weapon'd by Israel?

I bet that damn UN is going to get away with it too!

They want them out because they don't want them caught in the crossfire. They serve no purpose there, so might as well GTFO before they get killed.

Why would Israel be shooting at peacekeeping forces???

Their job is to record war crimes. Israel doesn't like when people record their war crimes. Thats why they've murdered hundreds (thousands?) of journalists

Also because we all let them get away with it with no consequences.

Well there's some. France has stopped sending weapons. Ireland has issued sanctions. The South Africans have fucking brought them to court for genocide. Nicaragua just cut diplomatic ties.

There's been varying degrees of consequences from maybe a quarter of the world's countries.

But we need more, of course. Especially from the US.

They don't want to be observed. Just as with Gaza where they won't let foriegn journalists in

The UN Peace Keeping Force is there for a number of things, but mainly to Keep the Peace.

They help citizens in a crisis, they monitor for illegal activity (including war crimes), and help with aid distribution. Their efforts are being hindered by the idf:

UNIFIL has said previous Israeli attacks on a watchtower, cameras, communications equipment and lighting had limited its monitoring abilities. U.N. sources say they fear any violations of international law in the conflict will be impossible to monitor.

"We don't want witnesses to our human rights violations. These 'accidents' will keep happening until you leave."

Wait like the Actual UN?

I get that the UN has no real teeth, but the peacekeepers do have teeth.

The fuck is going on anymore. Like I get they have all sorts of freedom to fuck around because they have weapons given to them with no control over their use, but this seems to me they are truly beginning to test their fate.

Yeah, but this isn't new. The Israeli paramilitary assassinated a UN mediator in 1948 because they were afraid his peace deal wouldn't be good for the Israeli State

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte

The assassination was organized by Yitzhak Shamir, who was later elected as Israel's prime minister.

1948 is a big stretch for me to agree with "isn't new." No one alive today would have been influential then, and many countries have significantly changed in that region of the world since 1948.

Now if stuff like this happened in the 80s, then I'd say yeah, 100% this is up their alley.

oh it gets worse. The US is sending in ground troops to help. Missile defense ground troops, but ground troops all the same. When a few of them get killed (in some fog of war event, I'm sure) we'll send in a large armed contingent to "protect our lads".

My personal nightmare theory is Netanyahu believes one of two things. Biden will not stop him because he believes Israel must be supported at all costs or Biden believes he cannot take action against Israel until after the election. So it is Netanyahu's goal to start a war with Iran before the election, and make sure the US is drawn in.

In this case we know the troops were not Biden's idea. Netanyahu specifically requested them. And for either of the reasons above Biden immediately approved the request.

I sincerely hope it's just depression thoughts. But I will not be surprised if we end up pulled into a war with Iran just before or during the traditional lame duck period. Obviously if Trump wins this is all even worse. But putting troops under Iranian missiles is a breathtaking escalation of the conflict.

I'm pretty sure the US is only interested in doing that to protect US assets in Israel. There's a shitload of money and intelligence there,

But the part that bothers me is that Israel already has an insane missile defence system why the fuck do they need the US resources on top of that?

That is where sending in the US troops to get them attacked and justify a great war comes in.

Yeah. We've been warned multiple times over the past couple decades that the Israeli far right has expansion on the agenda. And we derided them as conspiracy theorists and/or terrorist apologists.

Well. Here we are.

I don't know if anyone here is interested in uncomfortable facts, but I'll try my luck: UNIFIL has been neglecting their job for the past 18 years, and especially in the past year. Hezbollah has been firing rockets on Israel daily, directly from UNIFIL territory, and UNIFIL has done nothing to hinder them. The IDF revealed yesterday, with video proof, the existence of a tunnel entrance into a Hezbollah bunker, 100 meters away from a UNIFIL base, and 60 meters from a UNIFIL guard tower. It's becoming apparent that UNIFIL isn't truly neutral, and if they are that neglectful or incompetent, staying there puts them at risk, while Israel fights back.

The spoiled child of the middle east throwing a temper tantrum that has hurt people.

Now what will Biden do to reign in Bibi and his mercenaries?

Nothing. It's election year. If Biden does something, then Harris is going to be asked to up the ante which could be criticized as a running promise that might not be followed up on and cost her points

That's the only credit I will give Trump. He's not afraid to throw guarantees and promises around like they're Halloween candy. Now him following up on them (especially that don't benefit him or his friends) is a different story...

Its faster to quantify what Biden would Not do for Netenyahu than figure out what he will do. i cant think of a single thing Biden wouldnt do if Netenyahu told him to. He'd cheerfully drop to his knees and felate the entire IDF if told to, and then write Netenyahu another check of our tax money, to thank the IDF for the opportunity.

Obviously the UN is Hamas

I think you were joking, but thats what Israel has claimed, many times.

Israel calls UN a ‘terror organisation’ as tensions escalate over Gaza war

Ambassador to the global body accuses it of being a ‘collaborator with Hamas’

https://www.ft.com/content/f0945f3c-e4ab-4c04-8e1e-1e6f8397cb2c

Israeli terrorism has no boundairies and is not limited to Arabs.

This is how Israel does diplomacy. They are trying to de-escalate through escalation.

Netanyahu needs to be drone striked.

I'd rather he be dropped off in the middle of Gaza with no security. Let him sow what he has reaped.

In its version of events, the Israeli military said militants of the Iran-backed group Hezbollah had fired anti-tank missiles at Israeli troops, wounding 25 of them. The attack was very close to a UNIFIL post and a tank helping evacuate the casualties under fire then backed into the UNIFIL post, it said. "It is not storming a base. It is not trying to enter a base. It was a tank under heavy fire, mass casualty event, backing up to get out of harm's way," the military's international spokesperson Nadav Shoshani told reporters.

.ml users called it over the weekend.

So the UNIFIL report just doesn't mention the combat taking place so close to their base that an Israeli tank accidentally backed up into their main gate during retreat?

Yeah, sure.

Aight boys open season on un bases declared, time to go in

EDIT: After further research, and a few high-school level insults, I’m fairly certain, given the mind-boggling complexities of what went down in 1948, (like to what degree the British are to blame for however much of the violence, or how did the population of Arab-Jews factor into anything) that I am seriously under qualified to make the assessment that I made. I’m not sure anyone even can (although numerous books have written about it, one of which my Zionist parents tried to push on me), unless they were a truly neutral, on the ground observer at the time. (Maybe it's another reason to have a different term, since saying it is loaded doesn't even seem sufficient.)

I wish people would stop throwing around the term Zionist willy-nilly. It’s not accurate to the situation, and I don’t understand why it was twisted into this weird genocidal war-mongering meaning that has nothing to do with the word itself.

Now, clearly, there is a large portion of the Israeli government/military/and I guess, population, that is intent on genocide and war mongering, and it’s sickening and they need to be stopped. I just don’t like this term being used inaccurately. Maybe I’m being pedantic.

The term “Zionist” itself does not inherently imply war-mongering or a desire for genocide. Zionism originally refers to the movement for the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in what is now Israel, beginning in the late 19th century. It emerged as a response to centuries of persecution, including pogroms in Europe, and sought to create a safe, sovereign space for Jews.

However, over time, some have associated Zionism, especially in its modern form, with certain political actions taken by the State of Israel. Critics of Israeli policies, particularly regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, may use “Zionist” to refer to those who support aggressive military actions or expansionist policies, which clearly are contributing to extreme violence and the attempted genocide of Palestinians. This is where the connotation of war-mongering or even genocidal intent comes into play, often in highly polarized or emotionally charged discussions.

It’s important to note that many Zionists strongly reject these characterizations. They argue that Zionism is about self-determination for Jewish people. Equating Zionism with war-mongering or genocide often reflects political bias or misunderstanding of the broader spectrum of Zionist thought, which ranges from more moderate to more hardline positions.

The term can thus be polarizing, with very different meanings and implications depending on the speaker’s perspective and the context.

Zionism is a settler colonial ideology that aims at creating a Jewish ethno-state in Palestine. It cannot exist without violence. You can’t colonize someone else’s land without violence, and you can’t commit this violence without rationalizing it through dehumanizing the colonized. The genocide against the indigenous Palestinians is the logical consequence of their dehumanization that spans now over more than a century.

I would love some citations, because my research did not indicate any kind of requirement for a Jewish ethno-state inside Gaza. Palestine and Israel are the same thing, so that's what the settlement was about. Not Gaza.

Because you genuinely seem to care I think 10 myths about Israel by Ilan Pappe would be a relevant resource. I think it’s a nice compromise between working scientifically (I.e. citing sources where necessary) and being accessible. It’s not a scientific book but it’s written by a credible Israeli researcher.

I will be honest, it’s very biased in a sense that it’s anti-Zionist. But I think once you read about the history of Zionism it's difficult to remain unbiased about it.

That being said, a lot of damage has been done by the British before the establishment of Israel and a lot of damage has been done since it’s establishment, but the book also offers a perspective for moving on.

This perspective would be the establishment of an actual democratic state with equal rights for everyone and an acknowledgment of the rights of Palestinians to their land, their culture, and their history. Such a democratic state is possible, and it would not favor any ethnicity or religion. And here’s the catch: it would go against the Zionist ideology because it wouldn’t be a „Jewish“ state anymore (more like ethno-supremacist).

I hope that makes sense and I think other commenters may have snapped at you too fast .

You are the second person to recommend this. Not only am I going to purchase a physical copy, but I’m going to craftily leave it sitting on my parents’ coffee table when I’m done.

Honestly just read the raw facts on wikipedia about zionism and prominent zionists from the late 1800's, clicking and reading the links about all the key events and people through to the creation of Israel, resulting Nakba, and everything since then. Just spending a few nights going down those rabbit holes — all very matter-of-fact and neither pro/anti either — is all that was needed to decide that this has been a planned genocide the entire time, and "radicalize" me against both Israel and zionism... and I'm an athiest who could not care any less about the ethnic "division" or religious fairy tale bullshit excuses anyone involved believes.

Are you intentially being obtuse or just incredibly stupid? In order to create the Jewish ethno-state called "israel" the people who lived there were murdered, raped, and forcibly displaced. Furthermore, in the time since its creation, they have been excluded from having citizenship and representation in the government. This is known as apartheid. Within this ethno-state, these non-jews have continued to be evicted from their homes. And no, you subject changing genocide supporter, I am not talking about gaza or the west bank, though the crimes in those places are also numerous. So, again, I ask, when you make the claim that zionism is not a settler colonial belief, are you being intentionally obtuse or are you incredibly stupid?

This is almost entirely false.

  1. Jews have always lived in Palestine, for thousands of years. Jews and Arabs are both indigenous to the region. Jews purchased land and moved in. The violence was brought by the Arabs, who spent about 20 years attacking Jews and trying to drive them out. The war that led to the displacement and death was started by Arab nations invading Israel to destroy it. All of that, and the ensuing 75 years of violence, could have been avoided if the Arabs accepted either of the two partition plans that would have given the Palestinians their own state.
  2. Arabs are not excluded from citizenship in Israel. There are about 2 million Arab citizens of Israel with full rights as Israeli citizens. There is an Arab political party in the Knesset. There is an Arab on the Supreme Court. The Palestinians don't have the same rights because they are not Israel citizens by choice. They are governed by Hamas and the PA. I can tell by your comments you are clearly someone who gets all their information about the conflict from either TikTok or from your keffiyeh-wearing buddies on your college campus.

Yes, there have always been Jews in Palestine. The creation of Israel was an act by European zionists and the UK. Yes, when a foreign invader arrives and declares their own state (this after the land was taken from the ottomans by the UK) the local population and supporting neighbors tend to fight back. Would you accept foreigners coming to your country demanding it be partitioned? When only 64% of the population is allowed to participate in the government, the vast majority of them from one ethnic group, there is a problem. There is no path to Israeli citizenship for those in Gaza or the West Bank.

You clearly are a supporter of the geonicide, the settlements, the throwing Palestinians out of their homes, burning their fields, killing, raping, spitting on them as they walk the street below in jerseleum, and the myriad of crimes isrealis commit daily. You can not dismiss these crimes by belittling me, that only reveals you without your mask on.

No, the creation of Israel was an act of the UN. The UK had promised to help establish both Jewish and Arab homelands in the region. When the UK turned on the Jews and started restricting immigration, in the midst of the Holocaust, that's when the Zionist militias fought back against the UK. Israel was actually created in spite of the UK, not because of it.

And there was no foreign invader. The Ottoman Empire, which controlled Palestine for hundreds of years, was a foreign invader. They lost control of the land in WWI and Britain took temporary control. Jews didn't invade anything. They literally purchased land and moved in, like immigrants do. They had to establish a militia to protect themselves from Arab aggression.

Do you know how many countries in the world have been established through partition plans and political agreements? Why is that not good enough for the Palestinians?

Every citizen of Israel participates in government, Arabs included. To repeat: Palestinians aren't citizens of Israel. The people of Gaza elected Hamas as their government, remember? Why should they have their own territory with their own government but also benefit from Israeli citizenship?

"You clearly are a supporter of the geonicide, the settlements, the throwing Palestinians out of their homes, burning their fields, killing, raping, spitting on them as they walk the street below in jerseleum, and the myriad of crimes isrealis commit daily."

Pretty childish, which is typical of Palestinian activists. You know you don't have the facts on your side so you resort to rhetoric, strawman arguments, and ad hominem attacks.

This isn't about religion. Don't use the word Jew or Arab. This is a conflict between Zionists and Palestinians.

And that shows just how little you understand about this conflict.

The ethno-state problem exists regardless of where you draw the lines. A state cannot be both designed for ethnic superiority and treat those from other ethnicities as equals. You can't maintain that inequality without violence.

Go read Herzl writing about Zionism and Jewish people in general.

You people are like leftist zombies, you just mindlessly repeat the same phrases over and over and over again. Of course you can't engage with the issues beyond your catchphrases and clam up as soon as someone starts challenging you.

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Precision in language is a worthy goal, and another thread and time would be a fine place for a discussion about Theodore Herzl being a gigantic piece of shit who was a wrecker for what may have been a nobler movement among successful high-status Jews in wealthier parts of the Pale of Settlement during one extremely narrow time and context.

Unfortunately, you can’t just start a conversation that’s the equivalent of “swastikas are good luck charms” without seeming like an asshole.

Oh I knew I would seem like an asshole. Fortunately this is the internet, and there aren't really penalties for that (for better or worse). And yes, I am actually very intrigued by the discussion you propose. I've also been reading further after people started replying to my comment. I'm fairly certain, given the mind-boggling complexities of what went down in 1948, (like to what degree the British are to blame for however much of the violence, or how did the population of Arab-Jews factor into anything) that I am seriously under qualified to make the assessment that I made. I'm not sure anyone even can (although numerous books have written about it, one of which my Zionist parents tried to push on me), unless they were a truly neutral, on the ground observer at the time. I think I will append my comment, but leave it up, since I own what I said, despite how views can rapidly evolve.

Thank you for clarifying, and good luck on your quest. Arab Jews and local Palestinian Jews later termed Mizrahi were treated particularly awfully by the Zionists, there was even a false-flag Zionist militia bombing of an Iraqi Jewish synagogue.

For your earlier questions, I recommend chapters 1 through 6 of Ten Myths About Israel by Ilan Pappé if you haven’t encountered it already.

https://www.versobooks.com/books/2430-ten-myths-about-israel

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Im so shocked, its almost as if international law is made up by the global north in order to justify oppressing the global south while taking no accountability.

Why are are even calling them UN peacekeepers if they prevent violence from one side, but allow it on the other?

If they're indeed peacekeepers, then they failed their job miserably. As it stands, their only usefulness is being human shields for Hezbollah.

If they’re indeed peacekeepers, then they failed their job miserably. As it stands, their only usefulness is being human shields for Hezbollah.

How many Hezbollah are you saying were in the UN base when Israeli tanks broke through the gates?

Their job isn't to stop war crimes. Their job is go record war crimes and report back to the UN, where the world's job is to use this information to stop future war crimes by diplomatic or violent methods

Then maybe they should identify themselves as war inspectors or historians? "Peacekeepers" is kinda misleading...

That's what a peacekeeper is. Thats literally what a peacekeeper does.

Peacekeepers aren't people who use violence to keep peace. They are people who use nonviolence to keep peace, diplomatically.

The word for what you're thinking of is "soldier"

The moment Hezbollah resorted to launching missiles at Israeli territory, and Israel fought back, then diplomacy failed already.