Scientists Have Reported a Breakthrough In Understanding Whale Language

L4sBot@lemmy.worldmod to Technology@lemmy.world – 470 points – Scientists Have Reported a Breakthrough In Understanding Whale Language
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Scientists Have Reported a Breakthrough In Understanding Whale Language::Researchers have identified new elements of whale vocalizations that they propose are analogous to human speech, including vowels and pitch.

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Sokath, his eyes uncovered.

Not only did the AI predict elements of whale vocalizations already thought to be meaningful, such as clicks, but it also singled out acoustic properties.

This is an amazing use of machine learning models.

Can’t wait for them to tell us to stop being fuckheads and ruining the planet

"end capitalism"

NOC's vocalizations were recorded and studied by a team of biologists from the National Marine Mammal Foundation (NMMF) led by Sam Ridgway. In 1984, Ridgway and others at the NMMF began to hear peculiar sounds coming from the whale and dolphin enclosure. They were reminiscent of two people talking in the distance, the words just beyond the limit of comprehension.[5] Later, a diver working in the enclosure came to the surface after he heard someone cry "out, out, out!"[1] After he asked his colleagues "Who told me to get out?", they realized it had been NOC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOC_(whale)

Imagine if we managed to make a translator for the speech of an animal, knowing what they say and being able to say something back. Literally speaking with animals. That would have been so amazing and revolutionizing.

Honestly? We’d just fuck it all up, and find some way to exploit it.

If they could, the first words they speak to us would likely be akin to “Fuck you!”, or “Just what the fuck exactly is wrong with you people?”

I mean, would animals necessarily make a distinction between humans and other types of predatory or dangerous animal, understand exactly what our impact on their habitat actually is (something like warming temperatures would be hard to associate with us if you didn't know about human co2 emissions or the greenhouse effect, for instance), and understand that our technology is an extension of our control and not some other, strange symbiotic creature? Considering whales have no technology of their own and therefore probably very little understanding of the concept, they might not realize things like ships and fishing boats are entirely our doing and not some massive surface creature that eats all the fish, that land dwelling creatures like us live on top of like barnacles. And assuming they do understand what our ships are, they might hate or fear us from passed down stories of whalers, or encounters with those whaling ships that still exist, but would they think of us much differently than how they'd think of other predators to whales, like orcas?

They might think the boats have trapped us like they trap whales and fish, they probably want to team up against the menace

Yeah, exploitation like this is a big concern in the digital bioacoustics community with groups like Earth Species Project.

You saying this group is good or bad? It would certainly be transformative to hear what the animals are saying, an ancient fantasy of humankind, magic.

So far as I know they are great, I mean it is a concern of theirs. They do some cool stuff, they have a fairly active discord with quite a bit in it.

"Do you think the human chattering means anything?"

First translation

Here is an elephant translator:

https://www.helloinelephant.com/

I dont think its great or anything, a bit of a gimmick. Really, the most decoded animal language is probably prairie dogs, but I've not heard of anyone trying to make a translator for it.

Hell yeah, I hope it works for orcas too so I can thank the ones that have been trashing the yachts.

How do I say “I support my seafaring cetacean brethren” in Orca?

So what I'm hearing is they can literally talk to each other in a way that we do and we still kill them constantly.

We kill humans constantly too, and we probably obliterated the rest of the hominins also. I’m just saying we have a chequered track record.

Are we the baddies?

While I always love a Mitchell and Webb reference, I can say I don’t think so. I think the book Humanity by Rutger Bregman is a good reminder that we are mostly good.

Agreed. It's just that it's really easy for a small amount of people to do a lot of bad things. It's hard to maintain, harder to build, and easy to destroy.

However take in context that it's written by a human. Of course we will say we're mostly good. If Pol Pot wrote a book about Pol Pot he'd probably say he was mostly good too.

Well believe it or not the book isn’t one page whose entire contents read “We’re good”. It is a whole well reasoned length of prose supporting that with reason.

I understand but it's written by us lol. Not that any other creature can write a book but consider the absurdity for a moment. We are saying we're mostly good.

I share this understanding with you and this is why I say that AI will absolutely kill us because that is what we would do. It's trained on our data afterall.

I guess, but it feels to me like wiping out a species close to our intelligence is worse that killing each other.

Oooh, look! The translation's coming through!!

Thanks... for... all... the...

...

For what? Thanks for all the what?!

"So Long, and thanks for all the fish"

Gracie is pregnant.

So just fucking say what it is! We know they're intelligent. Just tell us how they all think we're running the planet.

They've already dispatched Orcas to send that message. We don't seem to be getting it.

Realistically, other whales would probably hate orcas, given they hunt whale calves

This statement does not fit my joke.

How can I delete someone else's comment?

Write a stern letter to the Internet Committee, explaining your grievances. I'm sure they are happy to assist, especially on cases like this one! 👍

Thank you. Will they raise the issue with the Lords of the Internet???

I wouldn't go THAT far! Before you know it backfires 🤢

You have to type your password into a comment, post it, and then hop on one leg while refreshing lemmy for 10 minutes. After that, it should delete the user's comment.

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"Yoooooooouuuuuuuu guuuuuuuuuuyyyyyyysssss reallllllllllllyyyyyyy suuuuuuuuuuuuccccccckkkkkk. Exccccceeeept Garrrrrrryyyyyyy. Heeeee'sssss niiiiicccceeeeeeeeeooooooooo." -The Whales probably.

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If complete mutually intelligible communication of complex ideas with another species is undeniably proven, that will be a massive boon for veganism(although of course not all animals are equal), and a legal quagmire. What do you do if they are suffering in ways that we can fix due to their environment? Like humans were, and then we changed our environment. Do you give whales weapons so they can defend themselves from orcas? Do you shoot whale pochers? Do you shoot orcas attacking whales? Do you farm krill for them to eat? Do you drastically alter the ocean surface to be more comfortable for whales?

After all, most people recognize it as good to alter a person's natural state(hunting and gathering from caves) for the better, so would that not be the same for animals that are considered essentially people or near-people?

We don't even treat other humans on earth with dignity and respect and you think anything will change for whales as drastically as you propose? Maybe I'm mega jaded but I see this having little impact.

Nobody said anything about complex ideas. Maybe they just said. "food here"

Speaking to animals would be cool but I doubt they'd have much to share other than basic instincts.

Nobody said anything about complex ideas.

Well actually having a language allows way more complex ideas than ever communicated with an animal before

What is this idea about not eating non-humans I communicate with. I speak with my plants too and they entertain complex thought. Do I have to stop eating them? There is nothing out there that isn't a person. Continue eating as you see fit and be kind to the living.

Speaking to something doesn't mean it understands and reacts to it.

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Just in time for them to go extinct. It’ll be helpful in a few hundred years though when we need to travel back in time again.

This was my favorite episode of Extrapolations!

EP 2: 2046 - Whale Fall staring Meryl Streep

One of mine too. It's a little scary seeing the things they got right so far.

It wasn't a great show and I didn't binge watch it, but I'm glad I ignored all the hate about it I read eventually. I really liked the drone defection plotline and the whale episode I feel is up there with some of the best Black Mirror stuff.

There was very much morale ambiguity of the "good" characters as well, it wasn't all pro-environmentalist guys are all heroes, there was definitely eco-terrorism.

I agree, it had its ups and downs, but on the whole it made me contemplate on things from many perspectives, and I think (and hope) that that was ultimately the goal of the creators as well. It certainly seemed to be.

Very few things I've watched have given me the same ..vibe, so to speak. I have been to India and that episode felt very .. authentic, for a lack of a better word.

In my opinion it's a bit sad it didn't get all that much recognition, but it also wasn't the easiest series to watch at times.

Seeing the story play out over the span of a few decades really hit home about how long we've let this stuff go on already and how long it can take for people to change views and seek justice. We just need to do all we can and keep trying to set the example.

Being the main contributor of !superbowl@lemmy.world, my feeds get full of environmental destruction and habitat and species loss, and it's tough to filter through all that every day looking for positive stories.

I agree there too. Finding the fine line between staying informed and going nuts from all the negative stuff has forced me to step back at times, just for the sake of staying sane.

Soooo this totally not going to go wrong by the military or a mad scientist?
I feel like I saw this movie.