Nissan develops paint that keeps cars cool in summer heat

lemme in@lemm.ee to Technology@lemmy.world – 487 points –
asahi.com

Nissan Motor Co. said it has developed a new type of paint that significantly reduces the temperature inside vehicles parked in direct sunlight.

The surface of a car coated with the innovative material remains up to 12 degrees cooler than that of a vehicle with standard paint, tests showed.

The company said the coating material can help rein in the temperature rise not only on the car's body but also in the vehicle when exposed to direct sunlight.

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Nissan also detects you having sex in the car and phones the info home.

I’m curious where that’s from? News, or you made up from privacy policy?

Mozilla's analysis if the policies, see my other comment in the thread.

Okay, I found one.

https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/

But I guess it’s to clarify what kind of data could possibly be collected and not that they actively collect and use them. I guess Ford can do that too, although they don’t specify in their privacy policy.

They’re not interested in your sexual orientation.

So fucking glad I got my car before they added all this shit.

It's going to prevent me from getting any EVs that come out that I can afford too. I'm not signing a fucking privacy policy for a car.

Yeah, EVs are the worst kind of the privacy-invasive cars I agree

But, like, why is that listed then? Why would Kia and Nissan say they collect information on your "sex life" and "sexual activity" respectively of they're not? What's to gain from keeping the window open if you're using it?

What ahaha.

Their privacy policy includes a provision that they can use the cameras and GPS to infer things such as sexual orientation, so yeah.

While this fucked up, documenting sexual orientation is not exactly recording sex. Someone could simply use GPS and see that the only place in the area that's open is the gay bar and infer from that, or even lip reading.

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Which cameras?

I don't think they have interior cameras (although other manufacturers do), but the front and backup camera feeds provide plenty of information as well.

Then there's also this, if you need any more reason to be concerned.

I don’t think they have interior cameras

Can just stop there. Unless people are banging on the bonnet, not sure what the point is.

If you read the linked article you will find that exterior cameras feeds are plenty invasive enough.

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I seriously doubt that, tests have been performed comparing black and white painted cars, and the difference was insignificant. The heat buildup in a car is due to the the sunlight entering through the windows.

trick is to paint the windows

Also this is problematic:

12 degrees cooler

But by what scale? If it's Flaffenfeit, it's just half an ounce!!!

And an ounce is nowhere close to a decimeter!

I bet Kelvin couldn't agree more. But to be fair, he started a bit on the negative side. And called everything above that plus.

To add to your comment, ceramic window tint is a night and day difference. My steering wheel, shifter, and all couldn't be touched after work. I wore driving gloves to get home. With the tint there slightly warm and the AC doesn't take half the drive to catch up, the car is cool by the first stop light.

Maybe they should sell cars with that by default instead?

Is ceramic tint different from ordinary tint?

Yes. It contains ceramic nano particles that reflect UV without interfering with visibility.

edit: I meant IR. But it reflects both.

Could you link one of these? All the ones that I can find say there's quite a bit of a difference

OK I'll link the danish test, this test is done with 2 cars that are identical, except for the color of the paint:

https://livsstil.tv2.dk/2018-05-24-bliver-en-sort-bil-varmere-i-solen-end-en-hvid-tv-2-har-lavet-testen

Konklusionen er altså, at den sorte bil ikke varmes mærkbart mere op end den hvide.

Translation:
The conclusion is that the black car does not heat up noticeably more in the sun than the white.

So it does a little bit that you can measure, but not enough to really make a difference.

Det skyldes ifølge Christian Bahl, seniorforsker hos DTU Energi, at bilerne opvarmes gennem ruderne.

According to Christian Bahl senior researcher at DTU energy, that is because the cars are heated through the windows.
(DTU is a well recognized institution for scientific research in Denmark.)

Maybe the fact that the experiment was done when outside were only 20-22 degrees made the difference less noticeable? Otherwise I can't explain why all the other tests I've found said the difference was 5-10+ degrees.

Sorry can't find it, all I can find in english are some where the data isn't clear.
If a white car has brighter interior it will stay slightly cooler, I cannot find a test where everything is the same except the color of the car.
What I can say however, is that the test I saw was performed in Denmark. It's possible countries with hotter climates may observe some difference?

Obviously the main source of heat is what enters through the windows, and how much is reflected out again does have an influence.,

If a white car has white seats and interior, they will obviously not heat as much as black seats and interior.

The white color on the exterior will also reflect more light into the car, except maybe at noon.

Edit PS:
I linked the danish test in a new response.

Obviously the main source of heat is what enters through the windows, and how much is reflected out again does have an influence.,

A lot of things seem obvious but turn out not to be, or not as much as I've first thought. Hence the usefulness of data and studies rather than mere reasoning.

If you saw my other post, this is absolutely confirmed by data.

They should install automated blinds like some high end luxury cars have except make them out of that silvery windscreen sunshade stuff.

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And that’s 12 degrees Celsius (21.6 degrees Fahrenheit)! What kind of garbage article doesn’t include the units!?

Or 53.6 degrees Fahrenheit if you believe whoever wrote the page for Nissan lmao. I guess they just typed it into a converter with no context, and the converter spat out an answer amounting to "if your thermometer says it's 12 degrees C, that would be 53.6 degrees F"... but without that context.

How would you know it’s wrong if you don’t know fahrenheit

Fair point, but I guess I would hope that the person being paid to write the copy would check it, since getting that right seems like it's part of their job description ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That’s why it’s a better choice to just clearly identify the units and not attempt to be clever about converting for a particular audience

There probably wasn't even anyone who actually wrote it. Fed it into some LLM to generate the page and no one actually edited it to make sure everything made sense

What kind of garbage article doesn’t include the units!?

What for? Almost no country uses Fahrenheit.

If that's how scientists did science, we'd have mountains of confusion. "Eh, most people will get it. Good enough."

Information like this is global. It's a single "C" for clarity. That's not an unreasonable ask.

This is a news article, not a study, which would've more likely used Kelvin, which would be still 12 degrees. It's for everyday people, which almost all of which use Celsius to measure temperature. People outside of the few countries who use Fahrenheit don't get confused about it because it's literally the only measurement they use in their life. If you travel outside the US you will find that no one adds Fahrenheit conversations anywhere and that pretty much all temperatures are listed in Celsius.

You're arguing that it's not worth the effort to be clear over a single letter, from a place of what appears to be some American-oriented xenophobia. Not a good look.

But to your point about travel, that isn't analogous. This isn't an American tourist going to another country, where the temperature context is Celsius. This is an article disseminated globally; by its very nature, the context should be agnostic of locale, and so it would behoove the authors to be clear (again, with a single letter) so that there is no confusion.

Calling out US entitlement isn't xenophobia. That self applied victim complex is just proving my point.

This is an article disseminated globally

Anything on the internet is inherently accessible globally, unless there's a geo-block in place. That does not mean that the things on the internet have to inherently be tailored to US standards or with US viewers in mind. The clearly not US sounding website "The Asahi Shimbun" even specifically has the subtitle "Asia & Japan Watch", which should make it more than obvious that this is not a US focused media. The only confusion coming up here is when you have to assume US units being used everywhere else, which simply is not the case.

Again, you're quibbling about the letter C for the sake of clarity and calling that US entitlement. You're welcome to die on that hill, but it seems like a silly one to die upon because you have some beef with Americans.

Again, you're quibbling about the letter C for the sake of clarity

No, that's what you are doing. lol I'm telling you that the letter is irrelevant for the majority of people in the world because we all already assuming the correct units of temperature and you seem to take an issue with that fact.

Me: "We should be clear and add a C, so we know for sure what units we're dealing with and don't make assumptions."

You: "No, that's American-centrism! We don't need to include them! Most of the world already knows what they mean!"

I’ve definitely seen some non-US news sources convert to US common units based on my locale. I’d much prefer they just clearly state what they’re using, especially like here where it’s just a matter of adding one character - similar to time where it’s adding three characters for the time zone.

It’s not even necessarily a US centric view asking for it - taking the high road here: anyone in the US interested in science is used to seeing both common and metric units. it’s really no big deal to switch back and forth. Just be aware there are multiple possibilities and indicate which you’re using.

You need the ° or else you're just making errybody mad. Or maybe that's just me.

Maybe it's a mental reading thing. I always "hear" the word "degrees" in my head when I see °, so I like the extra effort to include that, but I also know that colloquially, people are a lot lazier.

You’re right. Everything should be in degrees kelvin by default. Problem solved.

Why would it be anything else?

It's clearly too low a number to be °K. And since the only two valid units of measurement for temperature are Kelvin and Celsius, it must be °C.

A differential temperature of 12C is equal to a differential temperature of 12K….. You don’t take the offset into account for differential temperatures.

I agree clarification never hurts, but the entire world except for ~4% of highly entitled population will read that right.

There’s no need for that attitude though.

Fair, my bad! Sorry if it was offensive.

I just got a little sick of all the Fahrenheit (and also Imperial) domination around here. This, in turn, is often left without clarification, despite the system being way less popular.

Lemmy as a platform is extremely America-centric, despite having tons of folks from everywhere else, which is aggravating in the long run. World really, really doesn't all revolve around land of the free.

Metric ton of folks or colonial? Please clarify.

I agree though, that’s why I like posting conversions from time to time on other posts that are US defaults.

Being from Russia, I'm fine with people using the units they are more confident with or used to.

(Not specifying units may be a bit confusing, but then people here don't say\write "it's 20 degrees Celsius" either.)

Russian-languaged media is not commonly consumed by someone living under imperial/Fahrenheit system, so it's only natural.

For English, it might make sense to at least always add Celsius in parentheses, unless it's highly regional news.

Also, привет российским леммиводам :D

The attitude comes from Americans expecting the world circling around them.

The comment asked to list out the units which is a common thing to do. You don’t list out a scientific value without its units. They didn’t say list it out for Americans. Maybe the study was done in the US and they listed it in F. How would you know? So who came in here with an attitude?

No, they converted it to Fahrenheit because that's what they use & expect to be clarified upon.

No, they first listed the units which is Celsius and then converted it themselves and didn’t excepted it to be converted. No one is complaining that it’s not in F but rather that the units are missing.

Given that a lot of English language media are either located in the US or target the US market, I'd expect the value to be expressed in Fahrenheit unless stated otherwise.

Original article is about Asia, and Lemmy is an international platform, so neither applies here

I don't mind some actually regional things presented in whatever system they use in there - although I'd much prefer if we'd all go metric already. C'mon!

The original article is not about Asia, it's about a technical innovation. Regardless, although we're on an international platform, it's easy to see that many topics are US-centered, and many sources too - regardless of the subject.

"Asia&Japan Watch" is right under their name.

This topic is not centered in the US by any metric. It's just an example of a Lemmy bias.

a lot of English language media are either located in the US or target the US market

or target the US market

So regardless of the website's name or origin, it could be an English language outlet targeted at the US audience. Which is quite common. Which is why I explicitly added this remark to the comment you initially replied.

So why are we back here? What exactly are you trying to prove? All I said that I'd expect a value to be expressed in Fahrenheit unless stated otherwise. I didn't say that you should do that, or that's somewhat objective. I was simply arguing that despite only ~4% of population using Fahrenheit, it has much more influence due to the listed factors.

They're currently working hard for a way to make it subscription.

Might be the most interesting thing Nissan has developed in two decades.

They found a very interesting way of selling their hybrid cars as full on EVs where I live. Their e-power stuff are small ICEs working as generators for electric motors that then drive the wheels. Apparently the fact that the wheels get all their power from an electric motor makes it definitely not a hybrid no sir, despite the fact the cars have tiny ass batteries and the single source of power for the whole system is the ICE. Also they somehow have worse fuel efficiency than many contemporary ICEs that cost quite a bit less. I don't understand Nissan.

I just love how humans will do anything other than actually focus on fixing the problem. Love it.

I would argue that the new paint could help alleviate the issue, since it would incentivise people to decrease use of the AC. My concern then would be how polluting is the production of the new paint compared to the current version.

My immediate thought was to wonder if this would help give kids who get left in a car by mistake have more of a fighting chance

Like reducing the number of cars.

Ohh too much traffic! 🤔 Let's expand the freeways until you need a freeway to cross other freeways.

So... You want to turn off the sun? This has nothing to do with climate change, the sun hasn't changed intensity in a few 100 years, so sun makes things warm

Can they develop a paint that reduces the amount of cars? That would be more helpful.

This might match your criteria:
An image of a car painted in army camouflage

(Jokes aside, I do agree with your sentiment)

I don't understand, why did you post a random picture of some pavement ?

wouldn't this also work on buildings? pavement?

No, only Nissans. It says right there.

Probably yes, but it may not actually be doable. Not just because of how much there is to paint, but because the energy doesn't just evaporate. It's got to go somewhere. In this case I'm assuming it's reflected, even if diffused. If everything does this, things that don't (people, cars, pets, etc) will get all that extra energy.

Wouldn't want to end up in a situation like this: https://www.businessinsider.com/death-ray-skyscraper-is-wreaking-havoc-on-london-for-a-few-totally-insane-reasons-2015-7

The amount of folks who have melted their shitty low quality thermoplastic patio furniture with their sliding glass windows will always amuse me, but overall I don't consider IR radiation to be a big problem. Using a bunch of VOCs to paint everything and pollute a city would be though.

You ever seen that curved building that focused the sunlight into a spot in front of it and melted cars? Lol

You mean the one in the comment that the comment you replied to mentioned and linked to?

Ok, so don't paint it on any concave surfaces. Most buildings have flat or convex surfaces.

Is metal paint and concrete paint the same thing? I'm not a painter

Ultimately, they can be, but there's lots of differences between them once they reach the bucket you buy. They have different adhesion qualities, but that could be addressed with an appropriate primer. They have different final finish surface requirements, which could be an issue for how the paint works. I remember seeing dragonfly-wing-style paint that was white when viewed perfectly straight buy blue when viewed at any off angle due to a microscopic vertical grid of blue walls. There may also be a required clearcoat component that may not be compatible between the two surfaces. Metal paint is also designed to handle the flex of metal where as concrete paint would barely be concerned about that but possible address crumbling instead.

Edit: and after reading the article, it's a radiative-cooling paint rather than a reflecting coating. Concrete has a much lower thermal conductivity so this may not be effective in transferring heat out of the concrete.

Windshield screens are the low-tech but far more effective method of keeping a car's interior cooler, typically by at least 20F when it's really hot out. Slightly inconvenient but unlike this paint, a windshield screen will actually make a difference.

Mythbusters did an experiment with a black car and a white car hitting in the sun. The black car was 12 degrees Celsius hotter. Claiming that the paint makes no difference is such a weird take. I thought this was common knowledge as well as many people I've met avoid darker colours in summer and such.

What's the cost (financial and environmental) of repainting a car vs using a windshield visor that's at least twice as effective at reducing heat? Painting a car with this stuff would cost thousands of dollars compare to $20 for a visor.

I'm not talking about repainting anything, why are you moving the goalposts? Just buy a white car AND use a visor, what's wrong with that? And in the future, if this stuff is actually good, maybe all cars can come already painted with it?

Just buy a white car AND use a visor, what’s wrong with that?

Nothing's wrong with that-- why would I assume you're talking about regular paint when this whole article is specifically about a single type of new paint developed to keep cars cool in heat?

Wanna know how you're right? Look at the FLIR photo above and note where the heat is at its highest

I don't care about your cage's interior temperature. Until we can ban cars from cities I'd welcome such paint, because all those shit heaps of cages standing on public space still end up heating up the places around them, further inconveniencing everyone else even more.

You realize the emissions saved from reduced AC usage would also reduce the heat island effect, right? Sun visors like this are good for public spaces.

Also, it's more environmentally friendly to have people use visors than repaint their whole car.

That still does not make me care about your cars interior temperature.

That's okay, you seem pretty simpleminded so I don't exactly expect you to understand the issue. I understand the anti-car sentiment but you've clearly gone off the deep end yet you still seem to think it matters to other people whether you care about issues like this.

That's okay, you seem pretty simpleminded so I don't exactly expect you to understand the issue.

Projecting much? Love the insults btw. Really drives your point forward.

I understand the anti-car sentiment but you've clearly gone off the deep end yet you still seem to think it matters to other people whether you care about issues like this.

You seem to care a lot. It's also again projection and highly ironic since you were the one who apparently thought people care about your car's interior temperature.

You seem to care a lot.

I think you're confusing my care for the issue as me caring for you. It's too bad you can't even be bothered to make some of your comment relevant to the discussion.

Do they? I mean yes, because the ICE engines just constantly dump a ton of heat out, but does a parked car? Is there data on that?

Yes, just like "rock / gravel gardens" or whatever you call them in English, which are now banned in a lot of places for one reason being that exact same phenomenon of contributing to the urban heat island effect. They soak up the heat from the sun like a battery and then slowly release it into their environment, keeping it warm. It's super obvious as a pedestrian.

Why don’t they just make the whole plane planet out of the black box paint.

can i paint my house with that?

Nanoparticle roof shingles are a thing and they really work well

There's already a 98% paint, not that cheap last I checked though.

I have a similar coating on my deck in the back yard. I can stand on it barefoot comfortably in the summer which is not possible without the coating.

Also great for city climate since heated up cars are acting like a heat battery making it significantly slower for a city to cool down once the sun goes away

Ideally there would be no openly parked cars but I guess this is the next best thing

Got in my car after work yesterday and it was 102F inside. It was awful

Lucky! I've seen 150 here in Louisiana.

And even higher when I lived in the Mojave desert. Like, if you didn't leave a window cracked there's a real chance your windshield cracks.

Must have had you wishing for a nuclear winter.

I live in Pa, so our weather isn't crazy hot like the south. I can't imagine the weather where you've lived. 85F is my upper limit. Anything over makes me feel like I'm going to die.

I was working outside in 96F and nearly 50% humidity within the past week.

If we continue trying to work outside during the middle of the summer day, as our summers get hotter every year, people are going to start to die.

I wonder how many it will take for America to adjust. I assume a lot more than I'm comfortable with.

I was outside in 96F yesterday herding my ducks for 10 mins and my whole night was ruined because I got so sick from the heat.

Idk how people who work outside constantly do it

Box fans and Popsicles, mostly. You get used to it. Doesn't make it any more pleasant though. I did give myself some pretty bad heat exhaustion at one point earlier this year, that hasn't happened before.

12 degrees? I guess that's cool but still well within egg frying temperature around here.

How big is the difference between black and silver, metallic and non-metallic paint?

It's surprisingly low. A German institute conducted a few experiments and the most extreme discrepancy was 1.5 degrees Celsius or something.

Anything to not add a cooling system to the ev batteries.

I'm sure those 28% loans will just tack on another 6k in paint. NBD.