I would say people in countries with poor or non-existent public education are more prone. The USA's public education system was eviscerated in the 70's I think.
I would say people in countries with poor or non-existent public education are more prone. The USA’s public education system was eviscerated in the 70’s I think.
As early as the 60s, but really the 80s. Through the 70s US had some of the best public education on the planet. The move to privatize education started in earnest under Reagan (in California, as governor), and then further under Reagan (and every president and congress to now).
Specifically:
• calling for an end to free tuition for state college and university
students
How the fuck do you come to the conclusion that you're spending too much money on education
Educated people tend to lean liberal and conservatives hate open minded people.
It's this. People with good educations will figure out that the Republicans are lying to them to take advantage of them. Republicans don't want their pigeon/fools to think too hard about the lies they tell.
Look at Trump. Is he an obvious liar? Yes. But there are very "poorly educated" people who believe all the lies he says.
Right. We missed our chance when Hillary didn't get in. I can't see why people imply she's dishonest.
People in education tend to lean liberal. Conservatives don't hate people but they do realize there's such thing as being so open minded your brains spill out.
Easy
They are talking at the dinner table about doing things that are against my self interest. I don’t want those damn kids learning that. Therefore cut education
Rather that you know the market place of ideas that I espouse; as long as they match what I believe.
R E A G A N.
The Trump era began by ripping out the solar panels on the White House and tricking blue collars into voting against themselves.
It was, and is, fucking awful.
Just look at the GOP. They repeat garbage until their pawns believe it.
That last one hits hard. The state must subsidize intellectual curiosity. Intellectual curiosity gave us everything from electricity to modern governmental theory to the mathematics that would later turn out to allow wireless communications. Curiosity without a point is extremely valuable.
And it should be noted that even in late medieval Europe the state funded intellectual curiosity. The nobility were the state and many either were curious themselves or would patronize intellectuals
And people look at that and say, sure, I'll vote for this guy.
It's a self perpetuating spiral to hell.
Perfectly stated.
By design. It's a lot easier to fleece stupid people.
No, we just have a larger presence on the internet relative to our share of the global population, meaning our idiocy is noticed a lot more often.
Call it the Florida Man effect, it's not that other states don't also have crazies, it's just that Florida's are more well documented and publicized.
The Simple answer is No. Every country has its fair share of loud and dumb.
The complicated answer is, the less education and the more propaganda, the more likely you are to believe dumb shit.
Studies have found ( for example ) conspiracy thinking correlates with extremist political beliefs, especially right wing political beliefs, across countries. That linked study found the effect was strengthened by lack of political control.
So countries with more political extremists, especially far right wing in media platforms, leads to more popular conspiracy theories.
We conclude that conspiracy mentality is associated with extreme left- and especially extreme right-wing beliefs, and that this non-linear relation may be strengthened by, but is not reducible to, deprivation of political control.
To add to this, radicalism spreads thru a social contagion effect and requires repeated reinforcement, and social media acts as a catalyst. However, local organizing also plays a vital role in the spread far-right extremism.
Here is an article I have written on my blog detailing how people become radicalized. I have ads turned off and do not benefit in any way from my blog.
One important section I'd like to share here is for the false 'both sides' arguments:
There is a stark difference in the means with which the two groups engage in acts of extremism. In a study evaluating Left-Wing and Right-Wing domestic extremism between 1994 and 2020, there was one fatality as the result of Left-Wing extremism, versus 329 fatalities resulting from Far Right extremism in that 25 year period. [5]
The Far-Right movement is the oldest and most deadly form of domestic terrorism in the United States, and The Anti-Defamation League Center on Extremism found that the Far-Right is responsible for 98% of extremist murders in the U.S. [24] Furthermore, for nearly every year since 2011, Far-Right terrorist attacks/plots have accounted for over half of all terror attacks/plots in the United States. [21]
In the U.S., Right-Wing extremism was responsible for two-thirds of all failed, foiled, or successful terror attacks in 2019, and was responsible for 90% of attacks in the first half of 2020 alone. [21] Since 2013, Far-Right extremism has been responsible for more terror attacks/plots than the Left-Wing, ethnonationalism, or religiously motivated attacks/plots. [21]
That was a really interesting read, thank you for sharing.
The blog comes across a lot more professional than expected, cheers
That is the finest example of begging the question I have seen in years! It's really rare to see in the wild.
Oooh, could you expand on that? I've always had a tough time identifying begging the question and a real example would help.
You are MOST welcome, it took me ages to make it click, this is the best example I have found:
How come the iPhone so popular?
Because it's the hottest thing on the market right now.
Ha! I'd discarded that as just a tautology and went looking for something else.
TYVM.
YAMBB
you and me both bro
Low educated people are more prone to being superstitious. End of conversation.
E: Oh, right, it also gets much worse if you hardcore propagandize it.
Educated people are harder to control. It's why Republicans attack education at every opportunity.
It's why fascists always attack education at every opportunity.
Yeah, that's what I said.
That's what I said, too! We should be friends.
I really think it's a question of the sheer amount that is aimed at them through propaganda foreign and domestic. There's definitely a huge, deliberate push to destabilize the US.
This 100%
Yes we are! It’s a result of all the subliminal messaging we receive from our kitchen appliances.
Yvan eht nioj
Nice try, refrigerator.
That's why you cook everything on a wood fire in the middle of your kitchen.
Make sure you punch a hole in the roof for the smoke!
IDK if it's that or just the fact that there's both a lot of us and a great sense of nationalism instilled in us from a very young age. I've been to Mt. Rushmore twice. Only recently did I learn about how it was a sacred site to the native people that we promised to leave alone, before stealing it and blowing it to hell.
What I'm getting at is that we're taught that America is the greatest nation on the planet, and we're encouraged to be loud about that statement. So when a certain group of people in the government who are also very loud about their beliefs start saying some things that might sound completely bonkers to a foreigner, a lot of people find themselves agreeing purely because they like the attitude of the people talking.
Visiting Rushmore as a non-American is even weirder than you imagine.
The levels of over the top blatantly performative "patriotism" is quite bizarre to be surrounded by.
And the suspicious looks we got for not participating enthusiastically was discomforting (no, I'm not going to recite a pledge of allegiance to your country. Why would you expect me to?)
Now imagine a Confederate version with more racism and you have Stone Mountain.
I hate this country sometimes.
The country is okay. It's just the people I don't like.
Yeah sorry about that. They’re similarly awful to live near.
And the reality is Mt Rushmore is mostly going to be visited by people like that and foreigners. Mt Rushmore is one of the principal sacred sites of the American civil religion. Treat them like religious pilgrims because they kinda were, but they don’t even realize it. The pledge of allegiance is a prayer to adherents.
You think brainwashing may have something to do with it?
Yeah that's essentially what I wanted to describe.
American politics has often been an arena for angry minds. In recent years we have seen angry minds at work mainly among extreme right-wingers, who have now demonstrated in the Goldwater movement how much political leverage can be got out of the animosities and passions of a small minority. But behind this I believe there is a style of mind that is far from new and that is not necessarily right-wing. I call it the paranoid style simply because no other word adequately evokes the sense of heated exaggeration, suspiciousness, and conspiratorial fantasy that I have in mind. In using the expression “paranoid style” I am not speaking in a clinical sense, but borrowing a clinical term for other purposes. I have neither the competence nor the desire to classify any figures of the past or present as certifiable lunatics. In fact, the idea of the paranoid style as a force in politics would have little contemporary relevance or historical value if it were applied only to men with profoundly disturbed minds. It is the use of paranoid modes of expression by more or less normal people that makes the phenomenon significant.
It's written at a higher than 6th grade target, so it might be a challenge for anyone who's not used to that. Please give it a good faith effort to read.
Thinking about it, the low literacy rate in the US might be an aggravating factor. Something like half of US adults cannot read at a 6th grade level. That's going to hurt their ability to deal with complex topics.
It's written at a higher than 6th grade target, so it might be a challenge for anyone who's not used to that. Please give it a good faith effort to read
You know, you lose a lot of people with comments like that, talking down to everyone. You've provided a source that makes a lot of good points, but that's some alienating phrasing that'll make people feel you're elitist.
On the one hand, you're right.
I wrote that bit because when I was reading the linked article, it felt harder to read and understand than what I'm used to. So it wasn't really coming from malicious elitism.
On the other hand, I want to live in a world where people don't feel insulted (even when it was by accident, like here!) and just completely stop listening. I know I do it too, but it sucks.
Especially with the "elitism" facet. Sometimes other people actually are better than us on whatever topic. That's okay. Like if we were talking about math and you were like "This uses some complex algorithms so it might be hard to follow if you haven't done more than algebra in a few years" I'm not going to be mad. What would I even be mad about?
I'm sorry for assuming your intentions were less than innocent and positive. I also want to live in that sort of world, and I hope it didn't seem like I was jumping on your case or calling you a jerk. I just think it's important to choose our words in a way that encourages people to read. Too often people think they're bad at reading or math or something and so they avoid it, when it should be more like singing; it doesn't matter if it sounds good, we sing as a manner of expression. Reading should be for everyone. But, I was misguided, and you weren't disagreeing with that notion, and so I'm sorry.
It is very rare for anyone on the internet to apologize or admin fault. Well done. Thank you. I understand your intent and I'm not mad. Apology accepted.
Thinking about it, the low literacy rate in the US might be an aggravating factor.
"Read at a 6th grade level"
I thought it worked like, when you know how to read, you know how to read, and if you don't, you won't.
There are different reading levels, but I don't know a lot about them because I'm not in education.
You can probably recognize it even if you never thought about it before. "See spot run" or "Green eggs and ham" are very simple texts. Something like "the Great Gatsby" or "the Hobbit" are more complex, and a 2nd grader would struggle to read them even if they technically know how to read.
Technical manuals, works on a specialist topic, or .. my knowledge fails me a little here, but like more complicated novels, may be more advanced. More advanced in vocabulary, sentence structure, and things like symbolism, metaphor, or whatever cool shit House of Leaves was doing.
The Great Gatsby is shit, and the Hobbit is even worse. It doesn't affect the situation here, but just wanted to make sure we're on the same page.
So reading level is basically a stupidity meter. If you can read this text, you're a moron. But you're less of a moron if you can read this text.
I don't think we're really on the same page. Literacy and intelligence aren't the same thing. But if you take nothing else away from this, I think you got the "higher reading levels are more complex" thing. Maybe.
Also I think you have a typo and one of your can should be can't
Bold of you to assume I have a point, and that's not a typo. That's the duality of existence.
I think there may be a factor of sample size; There's something like 40 million Canadians, 40 million Australians, 60 million British, and 340 million Americans. So if you take a random sample of English speech on any topic, it's statistically most likely to be from an American.
You forgot Russia, india & china
No I didn't. India might be an asterisk.
The anti-vax movement is alot bigger in the US than any other western country, so yeah.
That's basically the answer.
I would also add things we consider conspiracy like UFO's have been seen all over the world just other countries usually have a religious or spiritual reason for the sightings and thus they don't become a conspiracy just part of their everyday life. Look up Jacques Vallee he does great research into this.
That supports my comment fairly well and for the UK sightings being high my guess is crop circles they are extremely popular in UK because of the right to roam law that's just my guess though
I think it's the accidental correlation of two separate events- crop circles and UFO visits.
I don't think it's accidently people who report crop circles usually are believers themselves and therefore are more likely to connect some prosiac anomaly in the sky the crop circle
But then we have ball lightning and we're back to square one.
Haha I like you. I find it funny mainstream science will accept ball lightning when it's just as pseudo as UFOs. I'm not a believer per say but I do think there is something about this phenomenon that is beyond our current perception. I could be wrong but seems like enough evidence to be researched imo
Here's the deal, the ball lightning thing, it could be anything. But it's typical of a certain kind of people to instantly jump to conclusions about aliens, illuminati, the JFK assassination and the moon landing because we don't know.
Like, we know the crop circles are bullshit. It was a couple of guys doing it. In the 90's. How many crop circles are being reported in 2024? None. Did the aliens just leave? Ok.
Yeah I understand the subject is rife with bs.
On the other hand it's annoying that we just immediately dismiss people who aren't making conclusions about anything aliens or whatever, and are trying to actually investigate the real evidence in the phenomenon. Why immediately dismiss professional pilots testimony they are fucking trained to know what's in the air if they say they don't know what something is I'd investigate it.
And you have people like Neil DeGrasse Tyson saying science is truth which doesn't make any sense at all
And if it turns out to be just secret government projects well I'm glad we figured it out
That is a fair point. On the flip side though, a lot of people don't take the time to educate themselves enough to be able to tell the wheat from the chaff, it that is an expression, and if it ain't then shit.
I must insist on recommending starting to watch Anton Petrov (Ukrainian, as myself)(in fact you and I share the same name) on https://www.youtube.com/@whatdamath
He is a wonderful person who keeps track of science news and holds us accountable to understand it.
The UK is Original Flavor US.
No. An old colleague of mine is on LinkedIn non-stop posting crazy QAnon shit and RT headlines. Anti-vax more-or-less started in the UK with the Andrew Wakefield affair and it seems to be super-popular in Australia too. Conspiracy Theory kind of helps people rationalise the absolute chaotic mess of the world we live in by reducing it to simple narratives where a defined enemy is out to get us.
It's easier to think everyone is out to get you. Than that you are just an insignificant self sabotaging fuck up. Not even on the radar of the elder gods
I think that the distrust of governments and generally those in power is a world-wide phenomenon. But I personally don't think that it is unwarranted. Corruption, abuses of power, and conspiracies are widespread.
Now explain why the conspiracy theorists always side with fascist rulership.
What do you mean? Can you describe what you mean with 'fascist rulership'? Then maybe I can try.
For example... people in Mexico many people suspect that politicians have associations with drug dealers, and many believe believe that particular bureaucratic systems (such as handing out public infrastructure projects) are exploited to distribute funds in ways that benefit those in power and their friends, these people I would classify as "conspiracy theorists", and in many cases they have been correct. You think that these people will always side with fascist rulership?
Fascist as in the US actively supporting and financing terrorism in countries it wants control over, historically. Like the Contras, that type of fascism.
And I think that being suspicious has been co-opted by the right wing, yes.
Fascist as in the US actively supporting and financing terrorism in countries it wants control over, historically.
Isn't this a conspiracy theory? I think that the official position of the US is that they are not financing terrorists, and many of their military actions have been performed to defend citizens from their ruler's human rights violations. Isn't the Cuban embargo officially there to protect the Cubans against human rights violations? I think that arguing otherwise makes one a conspiracy theorist.
I am not saying this to argue, I am trying to explain what I understand with conspiracy theory - someone who is skeptical about the official narrative, and believes that those in power will not always be transparent and honest to the public.
And I think that being suspicious has been co-opted by the right wing, yes.
I am aware of the "drain the swamp" rhetoric, that there was a QAnon, anti-vax, and other more fringe theories. But I think that this is a sub-set of conspiracy theorizing that is amplified by the media. Many conspiracy theorists are investigative journalists and critics of governments. And many conspiracy theories have ended up being true. I don't think that critical thought and skepticism is an exercise that only right-wingers should participate in.
Literally Sandinistas and Contras. Literally one of the world's most egregious and "oh shit we got caught" moments in US history. Iran-Contras affair doesn't ring a bell, does it? Why don't you start there for both our sakes.
Home grown conspiracy theorists are basically all fascist, yes. That whole segment of knowledge, if you can call it that, was astropaved by the right wing decades ago. Let's put it this way, Alex Jones isn't voting left. There is always a big bad wolf that you can't see, and the only cure is voting right.
It rings a bell but I am not familiar with the details, I will look into it but I can't address it right away. I am well aware that the US is an imperialist nation that has committed and continues to commit horrible acts all over the world. But the point is that this is not the official narrative of the US government. They may give some concessions about what occurred in the past, but the official narrative about what is happening now is always that they and their friends are the good guys.
I am not from the US and the question is about conspiracy theories in other countries. If the question means whether Americans are more prone to believe US-conspiracy theories, then yes, simply because they are much more likely to be aware of them. Many people in other countries don't consume as much media in English and might have no idea who Jeffrey Epstein was. So they probably have no opinion on whether there was foul play on his dead. But I think that if you talk to someone in Mexico and tell them the story of Epstein, most will agree that there was foul play involved. I am telling you this from my personal experience, at least within my circle but I think it expands more generally. We have a general distrust of the government and law enforcement, and so a story in which foul play is involved to silence someone else resonates. It happens all the time! Journalists are being killed all the time around here to silence them, and very often they are being critical of people in power.... Is it really that unwarranted to be suspicious?
Those are fair points- I'm not native US either, just to make clear, and I understand what you're saying. It's kind of like, better safe than sorry? There is an evolutionary advantage in beings suspicious, in fact some say that the act of lying and lie detection in humans had a significant impact in forming our ability to communicate through language, so it's a big deal, sure. We don't want to get hustled, know what I mean?
The issues arise later, when all our needs are met and we're fed and cozy, and still our minds try to evolve and suspect everything around us because- better safe than sorry, right?
We see a lot of efforts to convince suckers of absurdities in the US because there's a lot of economic value in swinging American votes.
In other countries that either don't have voting, or don't have a lot of economic power, there's less to be gained by befuddling morons.
There is a hidden assumption in your comment: conspiracy theories are intentionally created or reinforced with specific strategic goals.
My conspiracy is that conspiracies are a conspiracy
While I think that it's probably rare, there have been conspiracy theories that are intentionally crafted to achieve goals.
And I am very sure that there have been many efforts to amplify existing conspiracies; you can look at disinformation research.
I think that the majority of conspiracy theories are asroturfed, even those that actually started as grass roots. The Russians clearly admit that reinforcing propaganda rhat sticks, is a big part of their strategy.
There are plenty of crazies believing in conspiracy theories all over the world. Not just US or even the western world.
American culture, and I'm generalising, there are a million sub cultures obviously... Emphasises the individual. The American dream of you working hard to get some payoff, is an example. As such there is a lot of cultural pressure to not correct people when you are in conversation, it's more polite and acceptable to play along. Their stupid ideas, their problem.
And that's where Americans (again I'm generalising) are weakest here. Because stupid ideas are everybody's problem. Because once people go off-the-deep-end there is no easy way of getting them back. And a large amount of people involved in conspiracy fantasy is legitimising it.
So no Americans are not more prone to conspiracy fantasy, but American culture does permit fast growth of ideas. MLMs are another example of this. You can use cultural taboos and cultural elements to sell bullshit.
So Americans are stupid?
Let's just say that you're sounding very American.
Absolutely not. People might give you reasons Americans are but that’s because they don’t know about the crazy shit people believe elsewhere but there’s nowhere that’s immune to conspiracy theories.
The thing that differentiates America is that it’s a major country (so on TV a lot, in English) and a low-trust society. But Italy and Uganda and Japan all have wild ass conspiracy theories. (Italy has some actual conspiracies like Propaganda Due.)
I feel like Americans generally "know better". The bottle says to take two, we know better than to follow the label, we take four. The button says to hold until three quarters full, we know better than to fall for that coffee stealing scheme, we crank that baby till it spills over and then try to add 10 creamers with a name we can't pronounce. So when we hear that someone died under a bizarre circumstance, we know better.
As a non-American:
I feel like hyper-capitalism and America's borderline corporatocracy is responsible for this. So many Americans feel like they're being lied or taken advantage of in order for corporations to profit.
The suspicions about "Big Pharma", for instance, almost make sense to me if I try to consider it from an American perspective. Healthcare is insanely expensive there, and being told you need to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars "for your own good" is enough to make anyone suspicious. Especially when you see men posting their itemised hospital bills online where they were billed $300 for "women's sanitary products" - it's very clear these companies and healthcare providers are willing to be dishonest in order to profit. So American people start to distrust the entire industry/field.
Of course, when you look at it from a global perspective, or especially from a perspective of a country with nationalised healthcare where the same profit motives don't exist, it seems absurd. Just because the American companies are scummy doesn't mean the science behind medicine is wrong or a lie.
And it's the same across so many other industries. American companies take advantage of consumers, consumers start to distrust them. American people have been conditioned to distrust or be sceptical of so many things at this point that a lot of people feel like their own judgement is the only thing they can trust. Of course, not everyone has the critical thinking skills for that to actually be true, nor does everyone have the education in every single area for it to be true. And for those people with weaker critical thinking skills, having some charlatan come along and say, "well we all know you can't trust X, Y and Z, so what if A is a lie as well? And trust me, you can trust B" makes them think, "oh wow, they're right about not being able to trust X, Y and Z, maybe they're right about A and B too".
And so your Donald Trumps, your Alex Jones, etc, gain power and influence, and the people who follow them feel smart because they can "see through the systemic lies". It doesn't matter that half of what they say isn't provably true because (to their followers, at least) it could be true.
So I don't think it's just American exceptionalism that's responsible. I think the whole system's so broken that it's conditioned people to be sceptical and distrustful about everything, and to try to take advantage of the broken system when they can.
There is a near 0% chance an American would read all of that, let alone understand it. They're victims, they don't know what they are doing.
I feel like Americans generally “know better”. The bottle says to take two, we know better than to follow the label, we take four. The button says to hold until three quarters full, we know better than to fall for that coffee stealing scheme, we crank that baby till it spills over and then try to add 10 creamers with a name we can’t pronounce. So when we hear that someone died under a bizarre circumstance, we know better.
I have taken to calling this "American Exceptionalism". Its in some ways baked in to how Americans address their world. I think much of it comes from pride-in-struggle, that for many Americans, their pride is all they have. And so this needs to be bolstered, put up front.
A combination of narcissism and solipsism, truly messed up and dangerous
.
I have met several people who moved into Usa during the last years, and they all said Yes very much.
Moved from where?
Some Germans and some Usamericans who had lived in Europe for a while.
Why would you do that?
No, that’s just what they want you to think.
Why?
Illuminati
Because of, or because of?
Conspiracy theory, why can't Americans differentiate loose and lose?
It's they're poor education system that they have their. There need for an /s when their reading sarcasm shows they're lack of comprehension
Their
Yay!
Its
Only an agent of the New World Order would post this.
You know too much, Trent Miller. Would be a shame if people knew you lived at 221b Evergreen Terrace, Castle Rock Maine.
It was 451c Chapter Road, London, NW2 5NG
I giggled aloud!
I think they're exposed to more crazy, therefore. Not more susceptible, but wildly more exposed.
well, shit... that's a firehose of crazy too. I will incorporate this into my re-evaluation continuing.
Australians seem to have a thing for conspiracy theories too.
America has vast tracts of arable land with people who have nothing to look at but fields and endless sky, and who get very little contact with other humans.
Nope, but it's not that Americans falling for conspiracies is over blown, just that there are a lot of idiots everywhere.
Nah. There are just a lot of them, and most of them have access to the Internet.
Yes, though you have to remember, in most other places, the government cracks down on conspiracy theories. For example, if you live in China and believe that certain groups are secretly being mistreated, you're going to have the authorities on your tail.
Yes. The lizard people engineered us that way.
David Icke is English 😂
There is nothing funny about that.
The irony is pretty funny 😁
Ok it's really funny. What. You tryna start something?
Yes.
No, we just have a majority of English speakers so you assume all stupid English speakers are American unless proven otherwise. The anti-vaccination conspiracies comes from the UK from what I can tell.
Americans are mentally ill by nature. You just need to be in America and you are infected with mental illness and obesity. This is the reason why Americans are more prone to conspiracy theories including the idea that if you are fit you will fluctuate to space, thus most Americans become comorbidly obese to keep them in the Earth's ground atmosphere. The solution for this is to deny Americans having crazy children who shoot schools and other types of mass murders.
So it's a geological issue then?
Yes, it is actually a geopolitical issue that affects the biology of Americans. The Pacific Province has active volcanoes that expel smoke and when inhaled makes Americans in the region feel lightweight and as if fluctuating. The Columbia Plateau terrain is formes by basaltic lava that erupted millions years ago; this terrain has special characteristics that make it smoother than other types, so Americans feel like fluctuating instead of being in the ground. The Appalachian Highlands were formed by colliding the North America Plate with the African and Eurasian plates, so when American walk through these places they feel like being in a continent other than North America. The list goes on, but we shall also remember America is a capitalist neoliberal country which is a modern framework for society, so Americans are very stressed out by this system that's very different from when they were hunter-gatherers; this difference creates an environment prone to the development of mental illness and believing in conspiracy theories. The result: children shooting schools.
Oh I am fully aware of the basaltic flows of the Pacific North West and elsewhere, mind you, but how do you feel about Deccan traps?
I would say people in countries with poor or non-existent public education are more prone. The USA's public education system was eviscerated in the 70's I think.
As early as the 60s, but really the 80s. Through the 70s US had some of the best public education on the planet. The move to privatize education started in earnest under Reagan (in California, as governor), and then further under Reagan (and every president and congress to now).
Specifically:
• calling for an end to free tuition for state college and university students
• annually demanding 20 percent across-the-board cuts in higher education funding
• repeatedly slashing construction funds for state campuses
• engineering the firing of Clark Kerr, the highly respected president of the University of California
• declaring that the state “should not subsidize intellectual curiosity”
https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ684842.pdf
How the fuck do you come to the conclusion that you're spending too much money on education
Educated people tend to lean liberal and conservatives hate open minded people.
It's this. People with good educations will figure out that the Republicans are lying to them to take advantage of them. Republicans don't want their pigeon/fools to think too hard about the lies they tell.
Look at Trump. Is he an obvious liar? Yes. But there are very "poorly educated" people who believe all the lies he says.
Right. We missed our chance when Hillary didn't get in. I can't see why people imply she's dishonest.
People in education tend to lean liberal. Conservatives don't hate people but they do realize there's such thing as being so open minded your brains spill out.
Easy
They are talking at the dinner table about doing things that are against my self interest. I don’t want those damn kids learning that. Therefore cut education
Rather that you know the market place of ideas that I espouse; as long as they match what I believe.
R E A G A N.
The Trump era began by ripping out the solar panels on the White House and tricking blue collars into voting against themselves.
It was, and is, fucking awful.
Just look at the GOP. They repeat garbage until their pawns believe it.
That last one hits hard. The state must subsidize intellectual curiosity. Intellectual curiosity gave us everything from electricity to modern governmental theory to the mathematics that would later turn out to allow wireless communications. Curiosity without a point is extremely valuable.
And it should be noted that even in late medieval Europe the state funded intellectual curiosity. The nobility were the state and many either were curious themselves or would patronize intellectuals
And people look at that and say, sure, I'll vote for this guy.
It's a self perpetuating spiral to hell.
Perfectly stated.
By design. It's a lot easier to fleece stupid people.
No, we just have a larger presence on the internet relative to our share of the global population, meaning our idiocy is noticed a lot more often.
Call it the Florida Man effect, it's not that other states don't also have crazies, it's just that Florida's are more well documented and publicized.
The Simple answer is No. Every country has its fair share of loud and dumb.
The complicated answer is, the less education and the more propaganda, the more likely you are to believe dumb shit.
Studies have found ( for example ) conspiracy thinking correlates with extremist political beliefs, especially right wing political beliefs, across countries. That linked study found the effect was strengthened by lack of political control.
So countries with more political extremists, especially far right wing in media platforms, leads to more popular conspiracy theories.
To add to this, radicalism spreads thru a social contagion effect and requires repeated reinforcement, and social media acts as a catalyst. However, local organizing also plays a vital role in the spread far-right extremism.
Here is an article I have written on my blog detailing how people become radicalized. I have ads turned off and do not benefit in any way from my blog.
One important section I'd like to share here is for the false 'both sides' arguments:
References
That was a really interesting read, thank you for sharing.
The blog comes across a lot more professional than expected, cheers
That is the finest example of begging the question I have seen in years! It's really rare to see in the wild.
Oooh, could you expand on that? I've always had a tough time identifying begging the question and a real example would help.
You are MOST welcome, it took me ages to make it click, this is the best example I have found:
How come the iPhone so popular?
Because it's the hottest thing on the market right now.
Ha! I'd discarded that as just a tautology and went looking for something else.
TYVM.
YAMBB
you and me both bro
Low educated people are more prone to being superstitious. End of conversation.
E: Oh, right, it also gets much worse if you hardcore propagandize it.
Educated people are harder to control. It's why Republicans attack education at every opportunity.
It's why fascists always attack education at every opportunity.
Yeah, that's what I said.
That's what I said, too! We should be friends.
I really think it's a question of the sheer amount that is aimed at them through propaganda foreign and domestic. There's definitely a huge, deliberate push to destabilize the US.
This 100%
Yes we are! It’s a result of all the subliminal messaging we receive from our kitchen appliances.
Yvan eht nioj
Nice try, refrigerator.
That's why you cook everything on a wood fire in the middle of your kitchen.
Make sure you punch a hole in the roof for the smoke!
IDK if it's that or just the fact that there's both a lot of us and a great sense of nationalism instilled in us from a very young age. I've been to Mt. Rushmore twice. Only recently did I learn about how it was a sacred site to the native people that we promised to leave alone, before stealing it and blowing it to hell.
What I'm getting at is that we're taught that America is the greatest nation on the planet, and we're encouraged to be loud about that statement. So when a certain group of people in the government who are also very loud about their beliefs start saying some things that might sound completely bonkers to a foreigner, a lot of people find themselves agreeing purely because they like the attitude of the people talking.
Visiting Rushmore as a non-American is even weirder than you imagine.
The levels of over the top blatantly performative "patriotism" is quite bizarre to be surrounded by.
And the suspicious looks we got for not participating enthusiastically was discomforting (no, I'm not going to recite a pledge of allegiance to your country. Why would you expect me to?)
Now imagine a Confederate version with more racism and you have Stone Mountain.
I hate this country sometimes.
The country is okay. It's just the people I don't like.
Yeah sorry about that. They’re similarly awful to live near.
And the reality is Mt Rushmore is mostly going to be visited by people like that and foreigners. Mt Rushmore is one of the principal sacred sites of the American civil religion. Treat them like religious pilgrims because they kinda were, but they don’t even realize it. The pledge of allegiance is a prayer to adherents.
You think brainwashing may have something to do with it?
Yeah that's essentially what I wanted to describe.
I agree. Definitely brainwashing.
You can read "The Paranoid Style In American Politics" from 1964 for some insight: https://harpers.org/archive/1964/11/the-paranoid-style-in-american-politics/
It's written at a higher than 6th grade target, so it might be a challenge for anyone who's not used to that. Please give it a good faith effort to read.
Thinking about it, the low literacy rate in the US might be an aggravating factor. Something like half of US adults cannot read at a 6th grade level. That's going to hurt their ability to deal with complex topics.
You know, you lose a lot of people with comments like that, talking down to everyone. You've provided a source that makes a lot of good points, but that's some alienating phrasing that'll make people feel you're elitist.
On the one hand, you're right.
I wrote that bit because when I was reading the linked article, it felt harder to read and understand than what I'm used to. So it wasn't really coming from malicious elitism.
On the other hand, I want to live in a world where people don't feel insulted (even when it was by accident, like here!) and just completely stop listening. I know I do it too, but it sucks.
Especially with the "elitism" facet. Sometimes other people actually are better than us on whatever topic. That's okay. Like if we were talking about math and you were like "This uses some complex algorithms so it might be hard to follow if you haven't done more than algebra in a few years" I'm not going to be mad. What would I even be mad about?
I'm sorry for assuming your intentions were less than innocent and positive. I also want to live in that sort of world, and I hope it didn't seem like I was jumping on your case or calling you a jerk. I just think it's important to choose our words in a way that encourages people to read. Too often people think they're bad at reading or math or something and so they avoid it, when it should be more like singing; it doesn't matter if it sounds good, we sing as a manner of expression. Reading should be for everyone. But, I was misguided, and you weren't disagreeing with that notion, and so I'm sorry.
It is very rare for anyone on the internet to apologize or admin fault. Well done. Thank you. I understand your intent and I'm not mad. Apology accepted.
Oh no. Telling the truth alienates all of the idiots? We should really coddle them more, because that's what's important- their feelings.
"Read at a 6th grade level"
I thought it worked like, when you know how to read, you know how to read, and if you don't, you won't.
There are different reading levels, but I don't know a lot about them because I'm not in education.
You can probably recognize it even if you never thought about it before. "See spot run" or "Green eggs and ham" are very simple texts. Something like "the Great Gatsby" or "the Hobbit" are more complex, and a 2nd grader would struggle to read them even if they technically know how to read.
Technical manuals, works on a specialist topic, or .. my knowledge fails me a little here, but like more complicated novels, may be more advanced. More advanced in vocabulary, sentence structure, and things like symbolism, metaphor, or whatever cool shit House of Leaves was doing.
I don't know how legit this site is, but it seems to cover the topic https://www.weareteachers.com/reading-levels/
I think this is a sample of a text written at the 6th grade level https://www.oxfordonlineenglish.com/english-level-test/reading . I looked it up when that article about how most adults can't read and comprehend at that level was going around.
The Great Gatsby is shit, and the Hobbit is even worse. It doesn't affect the situation here, but just wanted to make sure we're on the same page.
So reading level is basically a stupidity meter. If you can read this text, you're a moron. But you're less of a moron if you can read this text.
I don't think we're really on the same page. Literacy and intelligence aren't the same thing. But if you take nothing else away from this, I think you got the "higher reading levels are more complex" thing. Maybe.
Also I think you have a typo and one of your
canshould becan'tBold of you to assume I have a point, and that's not a typo. That's the duality of existence.
I think there may be a factor of sample size; There's something like 40 million Canadians, 40 million Australians, 60 million British, and 340 million Americans. So if you take a random sample of English speech on any topic, it's statistically most likely to be from an American.
You forgot Russia, india & china
No I didn't. India might be an asterisk.
The anti-vax movement is alot bigger in the US than any other western country, so yeah.
That's basically the answer.
I would also add things we consider conspiracy like UFO's have been seen all over the world just other countries usually have a religious or spiritual reason for the sightings and thus they don't become a conspiracy just part of their everyday life. Look up Jacques Vallee he does great research into this.
The rates in the US and UK are pretty far ahead of anywhere else.
I am kinda surprised that the UK is ahead.
That supports my comment fairly well and for the UK sightings being high my guess is crop circles they are extremely popular in UK because of the right to roam law that's just my guess though
I think it's the accidental correlation of two separate events- crop circles and UFO visits.
I don't think it's accidently people who report crop circles usually are believers themselves and therefore are more likely to connect some prosiac anomaly in the sky the crop circle
But then we have ball lightning and we're back to square one.
Haha I like you. I find it funny mainstream science will accept ball lightning when it's just as pseudo as UFOs. I'm not a believer per say but I do think there is something about this phenomenon that is beyond our current perception. I could be wrong but seems like enough evidence to be researched imo
Here's the deal, the ball lightning thing, it could be anything. But it's typical of a certain kind of people to instantly jump to conclusions about aliens, illuminati, the JFK assassination and the moon landing because we don't know.
Like, we know the crop circles are bullshit. It was a couple of guys doing it. In the 90's. How many crop circles are being reported in 2024? None. Did the aliens just leave? Ok.
Yeah I understand the subject is rife with bs. On the other hand it's annoying that we just immediately dismiss people who aren't making conclusions about anything aliens or whatever, and are trying to actually investigate the real evidence in the phenomenon. Why immediately dismiss professional pilots testimony they are fucking trained to know what's in the air if they say they don't know what something is I'd investigate it. And you have people like Neil DeGrasse Tyson saying science is truth which doesn't make any sense at all And if it turns out to be just secret government projects well I'm glad we figured it out
That is a fair point. On the flip side though, a lot of people don't take the time to educate themselves enough to be able to tell the wheat from the chaff, it that is an expression, and if it ain't then shit.
I must insist on recommending starting to watch Anton Petrov (Ukrainian, as myself)(in fact you and I share the same name) on https://www.youtube.com/@whatdamath
He is a wonderful person who keeps track of science news and holds us accountable to understand it.
The UK is Original Flavor US.
No. An old colleague of mine is on LinkedIn non-stop posting crazy QAnon shit and RT headlines. Anti-vax more-or-less started in the UK with the Andrew Wakefield affair and it seems to be super-popular in Australia too. Conspiracy Theory kind of helps people rationalise the absolute chaotic mess of the world we live in by reducing it to simple narratives where a defined enemy is out to get us.
It's easier to think everyone is out to get you. Than that you are just an insignificant self sabotaging fuck up. Not even on the radar of the elder gods
I think that the distrust of governments and generally those in power is a world-wide phenomenon. But I personally don't think that it is unwarranted. Corruption, abuses of power, and conspiracies are widespread.
Now explain why the conspiracy theorists always side with fascist rulership.
What do you mean? Can you describe what you mean with 'fascist rulership'? Then maybe I can try.
For example... people in Mexico many people suspect that politicians have associations with drug dealers, and many believe believe that particular bureaucratic systems (such as handing out public infrastructure projects) are exploited to distribute funds in ways that benefit those in power and their friends, these people I would classify as "conspiracy theorists", and in many cases they have been correct. You think that these people will always side with fascist rulership?
Fascist as in the US actively supporting and financing terrorism in countries it wants control over, historically. Like the Contras, that type of fascism.
And I think that being suspicious has been co-opted by the right wing, yes.
Isn't this a conspiracy theory? I think that the official position of the US is that they are not financing terrorists, and many of their military actions have been performed to defend citizens from their ruler's human rights violations. Isn't the Cuban embargo officially there to protect the Cubans against human rights violations? I think that arguing otherwise makes one a conspiracy theorist.
I am not saying this to argue, I am trying to explain what I understand with conspiracy theory - someone who is skeptical about the official narrative, and believes that those in power will not always be transparent and honest to the public.
I am aware of the "drain the swamp" rhetoric, that there was a QAnon, anti-vax, and other more fringe theories. But I think that this is a sub-set of conspiracy theorizing that is amplified by the media. Many conspiracy theorists are investigative journalists and critics of governments. And many conspiracy theories have ended up being true. I don't think that critical thought and skepticism is an exercise that only right-wingers should participate in.
Literally Sandinistas and Contras. Literally one of the world's most egregious and "oh shit we got caught" moments in US history. Iran-Contras affair doesn't ring a bell, does it? Why don't you start there for both our sakes.
Home grown conspiracy theorists are basically all fascist, yes. That whole segment of knowledge, if you can call it that, was astropaved by the right wing decades ago. Let's put it this way, Alex Jones isn't voting left. There is always a big bad wolf that you can't see, and the only cure is voting right.
It rings a bell but I am not familiar with the details, I will look into it but I can't address it right away. I am well aware that the US is an imperialist nation that has committed and continues to commit horrible acts all over the world. But the point is that this is not the official narrative of the US government. They may give some concessions about what occurred in the past, but the official narrative about what is happening now is always that they and their friends are the good guys.
I am not from the US and the question is about conspiracy theories in other countries. If the question means whether Americans are more prone to believe US-conspiracy theories, then yes, simply because they are much more likely to be aware of them. Many people in other countries don't consume as much media in English and might have no idea who Jeffrey Epstein was. So they probably have no opinion on whether there was foul play on his dead. But I think that if you talk to someone in Mexico and tell them the story of Epstein, most will agree that there was foul play involved. I am telling you this from my personal experience, at least within my circle but I think it expands more generally. We have a general distrust of the government and law enforcement, and so a story in which foul play is involved to silence someone else resonates. It happens all the time! Journalists are being killed all the time around here to silence them, and very often they are being critical of people in power.... Is it really that unwarranted to be suspicious?
Those are fair points- I'm not native US either, just to make clear, and I understand what you're saying. It's kind of like, better safe than sorry? There is an evolutionary advantage in beings suspicious, in fact some say that the act of lying and lie detection in humans had a significant impact in forming our ability to communicate through language, so it's a big deal, sure. We don't want to get hustled, know what I mean?
The issues arise later, when all our needs are met and we're fed and cozy, and still our minds try to evolve and suspect everything around us because- better safe than sorry, right?
We see a lot of efforts to convince suckers of absurdities in the US because there's a lot of economic value in swinging American votes.
In other countries that either don't have voting, or don't have a lot of economic power, there's less to be gained by befuddling morons.
There is a hidden assumption in your comment: conspiracy theories are intentionally created or reinforced with specific strategic goals.
My conspiracy is that conspiracies are a conspiracy
While I think that it's probably rare, there have been conspiracy theories that are intentionally crafted to achieve goals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_INFEKTION
And I am very sure that there have been many efforts to amplify existing conspiracies; you can look at disinformation research.
I think that the majority of conspiracy theories are asroturfed, even those that actually started as grass roots. The Russians clearly admit that reinforcing propaganda rhat sticks, is a big part of their strategy.
There are plenty of crazies believing in conspiracy theories all over the world. Not just US or even the western world.
American culture, and I'm generalising, there are a million sub cultures obviously... Emphasises the individual. The American dream of you working hard to get some payoff, is an example. As such there is a lot of cultural pressure to not correct people when you are in conversation, it's more polite and acceptable to play along. Their stupid ideas, their problem.
And that's where Americans (again I'm generalising) are weakest here. Because stupid ideas are everybody's problem. Because once people go off-the-deep-end there is no easy way of getting them back. And a large amount of people involved in conspiracy fantasy is legitimising it.
So no Americans are not more prone to conspiracy fantasy, but American culture does permit fast growth of ideas. MLMs are another example of this. You can use cultural taboos and cultural elements to sell bullshit.
So Americans are stupid?
Let's just say that you're sounding very American.
Absolutely not. People might give you reasons Americans are but that’s because they don’t know about the crazy shit people believe elsewhere but there’s nowhere that’s immune to conspiracy theories.
The thing that differentiates America is that it’s a major country (so on TV a lot, in English) and a low-trust society. But Italy and Uganda and Japan all have wild ass conspiracy theories. (Italy has some actual conspiracies like Propaganda Due.)
I feel like Americans generally "know better". The bottle says to take two, we know better than to follow the label, we take four. The button says to hold until three quarters full, we know better than to fall for that coffee stealing scheme, we crank that baby till it spills over and then try to add 10 creamers with a name we can't pronounce. So when we hear that someone died under a bizarre circumstance, we know better.
As a non-American:
I feel like hyper-capitalism and America's borderline corporatocracy is responsible for this. So many Americans feel like they're being lied or taken advantage of in order for corporations to profit.
The suspicions about "Big Pharma", for instance, almost make sense to me if I try to consider it from an American perspective. Healthcare is insanely expensive there, and being told you need to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars "for your own good" is enough to make anyone suspicious. Especially when you see men posting their itemised hospital bills online where they were billed $300 for "women's sanitary products" - it's very clear these companies and healthcare providers are willing to be dishonest in order to profit. So American people start to distrust the entire industry/field.
Of course, when you look at it from a global perspective, or especially from a perspective of a country with nationalised healthcare where the same profit motives don't exist, it seems absurd. Just because the American companies are scummy doesn't mean the science behind medicine is wrong or a lie.
And it's the same across so many other industries. American companies take advantage of consumers, consumers start to distrust them. American people have been conditioned to distrust or be sceptical of so many things at this point that a lot of people feel like their own judgement is the only thing they can trust. Of course, not everyone has the critical thinking skills for that to actually be true, nor does everyone have the education in every single area for it to be true. And for those people with weaker critical thinking skills, having some charlatan come along and say, "well we all know you can't trust X, Y and Z, so what if A is a lie as well? And trust me, you can trust B" makes them think, "oh wow, they're right about not being able to trust X, Y and Z, maybe they're right about A and B too".
And so your Donald Trumps, your Alex Jones, etc, gain power and influence, and the people who follow them feel smart because they can "see through the systemic lies". It doesn't matter that half of what they say isn't provably true because (to their followers, at least) it could be true.
So I don't think it's just American exceptionalism that's responsible. I think the whole system's so broken that it's conditioned people to be sceptical and distrustful about everything, and to try to take advantage of the broken system when they can.
There is a near 0% chance an American would read all of that, let alone understand it. They're victims, they don't know what they are doing.
I have taken to calling this "American Exceptionalism". Its in some ways baked in to how Americans address their world. I think much of it comes from pride-in-struggle, that for many Americans, their pride is all they have. And so this needs to be bolstered, put up front.
A combination of narcissism and solipsism, truly messed up and dangerous .
I have met several people who moved into Usa during the last years, and they all said Yes very much.
Moved from where?
Some Germans and some Usamericans who had lived in Europe for a while.
Why would you do that?
No, that’s just what they want you to think.
Why?
Illuminati
Because of, or because of?
Conspiracy theory, why can't Americans differentiate loose and lose?
It's they're poor education system that they have their. There need for an /s when their reading sarcasm shows they're lack of comprehension
Their
Yay!
Its
Only an agent of the New World Order would post this.
You know too much, Trent Miller. Would be a shame if people knew you lived at 221b Evergreen Terrace, Castle Rock Maine.
It was 451c Chapter Road, London, NW2 5NG
I giggled aloud!
I think they're exposed to more crazy, therefore. Not more susceptible, but wildly more exposed.
After reading this comment (https://sh.itjust.works/comment/7841077) I'd think nobody wins the battle.
well, shit... that's a firehose of crazy too. I will incorporate this into my re-evaluation continuing.
Australians seem to have a thing for conspiracy theories too.
America has vast tracts of arable land with people who have nothing to look at but fields and endless sky, and who get very little contact with other humans.
Nope, but it's not that Americans falling for conspiracies is over blown, just that there are a lot of idiots everywhere.
Nah. There are just a lot of them, and most of them have access to the Internet.
Yes, though you have to remember, in most other places, the government cracks down on conspiracy theories. For example, if you live in China and believe that certain groups are secretly being mistreated, you're going to have the authorities on your tail.
Yes. The lizard people engineered us that way.
David Icke is English 😂
There is nothing funny about that.
The irony is pretty funny 😁
Ok it's really funny. What. You tryna start something?
Yes.
No, we just have a majority of English speakers so you assume all stupid English speakers are American unless proven otherwise. The anti-vaccination conspiracies comes from the UK from what I can tell.
Americans are mentally ill by nature. You just need to be in America and you are infected with mental illness and obesity. This is the reason why Americans are more prone to conspiracy theories including the idea that if you are fit you will fluctuate to space, thus most Americans become comorbidly obese to keep them in the Earth's ground atmosphere. The solution for this is to deny Americans having crazy children who shoot schools and other types of mass murders.
So it's a geological issue then?
Yes, it is actually a geopolitical issue that affects the biology of Americans. The Pacific Province has active volcanoes that expel smoke and when inhaled makes Americans in the region feel lightweight and as if fluctuating. The Columbia Plateau terrain is formes by basaltic lava that erupted millions years ago; this terrain has special characteristics that make it smoother than other types, so Americans feel like fluctuating instead of being in the ground. The Appalachian Highlands were formed by colliding the North America Plate with the African and Eurasian plates, so when American walk through these places they feel like being in a continent other than North America. The list goes on, but we shall also remember America is a capitalist neoliberal country which is a modern framework for society, so Americans are very stressed out by this system that's very different from when they were hunter-gatherers; this difference creates an environment prone to the development of mental illness and believing in conspiracy theories. The result: children shooting schools.
Oh I am fully aware of the basaltic flows of the Pacific North West and elsewhere, mind you, but how do you feel about Deccan traps?