Yeah, because it couldn't possibly be that Americans are opposed to genocide.
For fuck's sake, Pelosi. Witch hunts are supposed to be a Republican thing.
wouldn’t be the first time Russia has done something like this, that said, how about we stop supporting genocide and it won’t matter
Wouldn't be the first time democrats have done this, either.
The best propaganda in the world is the truth. I wouldn't even be surprised if the Russians were signal boosting Palestinians in some way. Doesn't mean we should keep supporting a genocide though. Israel fucked up.
They're absolutely boosting Palestinians. Russia wants to prove to the world that Israel is carrying out a genocide, and that Israel/US are heavily leaning on international entities to delay any meaningful condemnation from bodies like the ICJ or UN. Russia wants to highlight the moral hypocrisy of the West, and prove that Palestinians are being exterminated
This is not because Russia cares about human rights. Rather it is because they want to paint the United States/The West as obvious hypocrites with no moral standing. Which will enable Russia to commit larger atrocities in Ukraine without meaningful rebuke. After all, these same international agencies permitted the genocide in Gaza, who are they now to condemn Russia when they massacre an entire Ukrainian city? It also will provide cover for China's invasion of Taiwan, and their further suppression of Uyghurs in NW China.
Israel is certainly engaging in genocide against Palestinian. But this crime, and the US' whitewashing of it, will be used by Russia/China as cover to carry out their own escalated human rights abuses. And by that time, the US will have lost its moral leadership in the world and Western international institutions will have similarly been shown to be utterly useless puppets of America. Which is all a very bad thing for the weak and non-nuclear peoples of the world
Yeah, but that was always going to happen. Using it to silence protest is... Maddening.
She gets intelligence briefings and does not interact with normal people. So I'm sure that genuinely colors her perception of reality on this matter. Plus she's old and has never lived in a time where Americans oppose Israel to this extent - so of course she thinks it's all astroturfed rather than being genuine
Doesn't excuse her behavior, obviously. But there is a plausible explanation for it aside from her being evil (which she is, but other factors are also at play here)
While it's all certainly Americans, and we don't like genocides, she is correct in assuming that Putin wants Trump to win, and this would be an effective way to further that goal.
Don't forget Putin was KGB.
I imagine it's more through social media manipulation and misinformation than FSB funding, I suppose I could be wrong. By way of example, though, how many times have you heard that white phosphorous is banned, even though that's not exactly true?
FSB is using social media among other things. Active Measures is one of primary ways how they operated and they adapted it well to the Internet age.
Have you thought how come that antivaxx people also have very pro Russia anti EU, anti UN anti NATO views?
Covid was a great catalyst in spreading disinformation.
Same thing with far right people in US and Europe, how come their views are mostly pro Russia and how come they greatly overlap with antivaxx?
I've honestly just stopped doing that explainer because Israel is using it illegally.
True. But the propaganda line doesn't acknowledge the distinction, and just tries to spread the idea that the US does not care about international law, which is false.
Ahhh yes. I had someone run that with landmines too. According to them we can't get in compliance with international law until we de-mine the Korean DMZ...
Landmines are also not banned. There's a lot of subtly misleading bullshit on the internet.
There is a section on them that most of the world has signed. It's basically the US, Russia, and China that haven't signed.
It's a little more complicated than that, because there are many different kinds of landmines. Nobody bans them all.
Thank you, Flying Squid. I couldn't agree more. The Trump-resemblance in attitude on her part has been disheartening. BTW, I tend to really like your comments. Have a good day.
Thank you, you too!
Imagine how out-of-touch you have to be to represent San Francisco and not realize sincere antiwar protesters exist.
Here is my completely nonpartisan hot take. We should pass a constitutional amendment that ties the maximum age to hold public office (including judges) to the Social Security "Normal Retirement Age" at the time of passing. That is currently 67 years old. You can do whatever you want past 67, but you can't hold public office.
Do you want them to make the retirements age 90? I’d rather not give those assholes a perverse incentive to reduce benefits.
I did state "at time of passage" but we might as well say "at time of drafting" to avoid shenanigans.
In a lot of a states you can bring forward laws to ballots that amend the state constitutions with enough public signatures. I think in our modern day lack of a useful government officials we should use this tool far more often to attempt to ensure a healthier government.
What difference will that make? Also, what happens if/when life extension/age reversal becomes an everyday thing? Government regulations often move at a glacial pace, why fix something in place now that will be hard to remove when it's completely irrelevant. We are even still saddled with the stupid EC and the idea that states all get 2 senators, no matter their population size. How long would it take to remove a rule like this that quickly becomes obviously ridiculous in the near future?
Young politicians will always have an incentive to consider raising the age limit. This isn't a system that leads to irreversible change when and if the time arises where the limit is no longer appropriate.
She represents San Francisco's billionaires. She has nothing to do with people making median incomes.
So in her world, support for Israel is a universally shared opinion
Having said that, it is in Russias interest to highlight the very real genocide in Gaza. By demonstrating the obvious hypocrisy of the Western "rules-based" order, they will make it easier for Russia to commit further atrocities in Ukraine. And for China to invade Taiwan. And America's ability to credibly resist those efforts will be diminished - after all, the US enabled Israel's genocide of the Palestinians despite international condemnation, so who is America now to object to the murder of Ukrainians or the annexation of Taiwan?
Aren't you actually proving her point?
You're saying that among protesters there are sincere ones.
A call for investigation means that there is a belief that among sincere ones there are also insincere ones trying to spin shit up.
It's an easy way to silence people you don't want to hear. Someone who believes there's sincerity in the sentiment doesn't start off with: "For them to call for a ceasefire is Mr Putin's message. Make no mistake. This is directly connected to what he would like to see."
It doesn't really matter what you justify it with afterward, you're still essentially saying opposing "war" in Gaza is supporting Putin.
It also implies that anti-war protesting is something that is problematic and should be looked into. Or, rather than being pro-Palestine is wrong, and that it's a sentiment that has to be caused by foreign influence.
Enough with the Hamas sideshow bullshit. You don't have to be a Hamas supporter to be upset that Israel is indiscriminately killing Palestinians. At this point, anything Hamas did on 10/7 pales in comparison to Israel's response.
It's no secret that there are corrupt politicians either. I think we should investigate this ghoul and her financial ties to supporting genocide first before we use the secret police on citizens expressing a desire for peace.
If she was calling for both pro-Palestine and pro-Israel protest groups to be investigated for potential monetary ties to Russia, then I'd consider her claim to be more valid.
Sure, but lets also investigate the House for financial ties to billionaires.
...and Russia, probably.
And investigate both sides - Russia will support both extremes in any issue that causes unrest in Western democracies. So investigating only one side is a useful propaganda tool but kind of misses the mark.
Financial ties? She is a billionaire.
Vietnam war all over
"Foreign agents are brainwashing our youth to be against the war"
"Hey guys, we need a surefire way to make our base stay home instead of vote when we have a literal fascist running who will end the Republic if he's allowed to win!"
Nancy: "Say no more fam, I got this."
Weird way to say 3rd party
Weird way to say secure Trump's victory.
A vote for a third party is a vote for Trump. Don't be an idiot
Could you please write out the math where my 3rd party vote adds a tally to Trump?
Every vote that Biden loses to a third party means Trump has a better chance of winning the state. Unless you are voting in a pure Blue state like NY,CA, etc or a pure Red state like FL, OH, etc then you are giving Trumptard a better chance to win by not voting for Biden
Then Biden and the people who elected him in the primaries should do some self reflection.
Contrary to popular opinion on this site, most Americans don't support a cease fire in Israel. I don't either. Not until Hamas is gone
Latest polling shows over 2/3 of Americans want a ceasefire, that’s both Dems and Repugs.
Consider examining your own bias for bloodlust instead of pulling sentiment out of your ass.
Man, these fuckers really fucking hate their base.
What the fuck, Nancy???
She’s been woefully out of touch on a lot of things for at least a decade at this point
We've gotten to the point that America is like one of those sci-fi dystopia movies where the council of elders rules the nation, kept alive artificially while the people starve.
More like a mr house from fallout new Vegas. A wealthy libertarian capitalist ruling over his lessers while being artificially kept alive.
I see it more like a cyber punk dystopia where mega corporations rule over everything and can do whatever the fuck they want.
You guys are getting paid!?
Turns out you don't need to get paid to support Palestinians, you just need to not be a huge piece of shit!
Wild I know.
I am once again waiting for my Soros Check. Is there a helpline I should call?
Yeah, but in roubles. May as well be monopoly money.
Anything to not have to stop a genocide.
Or at least stop supporting it.
Wish I was getting paid to support Palestine.
Yeah, pretty sure the money is on the other side.
This cunt needs to go the fuck away.
What an utter bitch. Your finances are the ones that should be investigated.
Sadly, she's following the rules that she and her colleagues made. That's the worst part
Following the rules has no relation to behaving ethically
The rules weren't given to us by God or any moral authority - they were written by lobbyists and trllion dollar corporations. Aka, entities whose self-interest is radically opposed to that of a normal American
What an Unusual Whale. In a market that averaged just under a 25% return in 2023 Pelosi managed to get 65%. Surely this has nothing to do with the fact that she and her close colleagues are in charge of regulating industry and allocating government money. It's just that she's an extra smart and talented trader. And so are a lot of her colleagues. Like, a lot lot. Beating the market is the only thing Congress is good at.
Brian Higgins is killing it.
Shouldn't we instead be investigating the politicians currently in office that we have a really good reason to believe have a monetary tie to Russia and have a mountain of evidence of being coerced or controlled by them due to said politicians' past actions (going to a secret meeting to Moscow on July 4th, ect)?
No, no, no. We have to capitulate to them.
Yep, but we won't, because they're paying people to pose as leftists supporting Palestine in order to get all the others riled up on that cause using half truths. This drives the attention towards the left (the primary intention of Right Wing propaganda). We can't ever change this until people stop being afraid to admit the truth about the Right Wing.
Dividing the party sounds like a Russian ploy. Can we investigate her first?
Netanyahu has much to gain from a Trump presidency too.
Then he should be thanking Pelosi right now.
Let's concede that the people organizing protests are receiving money from Russia. Is that actually a criminal matter? Apparently Trump's campaign working with Russia wasn't.
It's only legal when it's Israel doing it.
Pelosi is just saying that opposition to genocide means you must be Russian, which is what I keep hearing from pro-genocide centrist Democrats on lemmy.
I don't get why those same centrists are turning on her.
She's obviously corrupt, as evidenced by her investment history. And her recent actions come off as overly performative and tone deaf, like when she kneeled while wearing a Kente cloth. Aka, she has bad aesthetics, and neolib voters only see politics through the lens of aesthetics
More importantly, it's probably true that Russia is involved in spreading inflammatory propaganda on every side of every hot button issue in the United States. Their goal is to divide us and to erode our establishments moral standing. So they very likely are boosting both pro Palestinian and pro genocide messaging to accomplish that goal.
Russia is involved in spreading inflammatory propaganda on every side of every hot button issue in the United States. Their goal is to divide us and to erode our establishments
Exactly, everyone should be realizing this by now. China, Russia, Iran, and more are all probably doing this all of the time, because they have seen how effective it is to destabilize our democracy that they fear. People's basic brain processes are drawn to the inflammatory news, and social media algorithms promote these things to get views because it makes them money. It all rolls up together into a giant ball of shit that's crushing everything that's good.
Yeah exactly. Which in no way negates the fact that there is a very real genocide being carried out by Israel with the support of the United States. That is true and is real and needs to be stopped.
But it is in Russia/Iran/China's interest to exacerbate tensions on all sides of such a genocide, including by generating and boosting inflammatory social media content that is seen by Americans. A consequence of which is that a record number of Americans are seeing Israel's actions for what they truly are, which is good - but this is not being done for remotely altruistic reasons
There is no genocide lmao. If israel wanted to, Gaza would be gone tomorrow.
"There is no genocide - if Germany wanted to, the Jews would be gone tomorrow" - You, in 1935
Exactly.
All these contrarian takes telling pelosi that she is wrong when iran and russia admit to this manipulation is insane.
I have to been on lemmy in weeks and wont be for many more.
This network is a cesspit
Source for Iran and Russia admitting this?
"Eat the 1%" isn't a strong enough punishment for this kind of statement
Those stupid fucks really want to lose the election
Nearly every Republican will vote for Trump. Meanwhile, the Democrats are notoriously fickle already, and have to convince enough independents to vote for them, and they're doing everything in their power to alienate people in both camps.
Typical establishment hubris. The other side supports fascism, so we dare you not to vote for us, or just the assumption that enough people support them out of the gate to win (like Hillary Clinton). And we are fucked by the two party system again.
If the cons want to understand (ah, who am I kidding, they don't want to understand anything) why many of us in the reality-based community chuckle about the idea of Pelosi even being half the liberal they seem to think she is...they might take a closer look here.
Not that I think she has ties to Russia, but really the FBI needs to be investigating members of Congress for ties to Russia.
And probably a number of governors...
Can they also investigate her insider trading?
As a liberal, peolsi is sham lol anyone not pro Palestine is just evil
What if you're anti-Middle East as a whole? I'm entirely against it as it has a bad history with no resolution in sight.
“Disinformation” has become to the left, what “fake news” is to the right - a cudgel to deflect dissent or crush differing options as false or astroturfed, and therefore not even worth discussion to dismiss
It's cute that you think Pelosi is "left-wing". Cute, but sad.
She’s not (by global nor US standards) but she did run the ‘left wing’ party in Congress for 20 years. So they certainly think she is.
Shouldn't we also investigate pro-Israel defenders for Financial Ties to Defense Contractors?
I need someone to ely5 how to get to this conclusion.
"For them to call for a ceasefire is Mr. Putin's message. Make no mistake. This is directly connected to what he would like to see”
How? What does he gain from it?
I bet he loves how she just added fuel to more devision.
One would think Putin would have more to gain from it expanding into a regional conflict which the US/NATO get dragged into
So this November Americans will be able to choose between literally a Nazi and someone who strongly supports genocide and treats anyone who doesn't support it as a traitor.
Good luck with that
strongly and eagerly supporting genocide is pretty much just the colloquial definition of Nazi, so IDK why a distinction is necessary. It's two Nazis on the ballot.
oh friend, I wish only the Nazis supported genocides, there is a wide range of ideologies whose lack of morality you are unaware of
"If you can’t handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don’t deserve me at my best." - Establishment Democrats
Can't she just wither away peacefully.
#NotTheOnion
Put her to bed. Her legacy is shit. How many bills have you passed that never got enforced Nancy that wound up getting you and a bunch of dipshit Republicans rich? How much more are you going to shit on the youth with your limp dick Catholic degenerate bullshit? Fuck her. She’s so clueless and useless.
I hate this timeline.
Yes, there probably are Russian agents trying to sow division any way they can, and they latch onto anything they perceive as potentially divisive. She's not wrong.
At the same time, the way Netanyahu has prosecuted this war is horrifying and reprehensible, actively costing Israel the moral high ground after Hamas' terrorist attack (something I wouldn't have believed possible) and basically doing everything Hamas could possibly want for their propaganda needs.
This situation is fucked and I hate every single thing about it.
These fucking dinosaurs just don't get it, do they? They come from a time when Israel and the US were blood brothers, one and the same, when it would be unconscionable for the American public to have any other view than carte blanche 100% support for Israel.
Now that view is finally (slowly) changing but they're too old and come from too different of a world to realize it, or if they do realize it (they have plenty of smart people working for them) then they just don't grasp the changing tides
Nancy needs to shut the fuck up and stop trying to give Trump the election.
Anything left of the Democrats is Russian propaganda because it has to be. If there exists a big constituency left of the Democrats than that would mean that that constituency has no political representation, due to the first pass the post system and systematic suppression by the Democrats of their left flank within the party. This would mean American democracy is hugely flawed and extra-electoral action is justified to manifest change, but this can not be the case so Q.E.D. it is all Russian disinformation. Google “Russia BLM” for some more concern trolling of this kind.
I could kinda believe that opponents of supporting Ukraine are Russian shills, but supporters of Palestina? If anything Russia is happy to keep the US army supply chain to be diverted to Israel instead of Ukraine.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Nancy Pelosi suggested that Russia may be funding pro-Palestinian protesters who have been interrupting Democratic campaign events, saying that some calling for a ceasefire are promoting “Putin’s message.”
At an event focused on abortion rights, protesters interrupted Biden’s speech at least a dozen times, demanding a ceasefire, and they were removed from the venue.
They also appeared at his speech in Charleston’s Mother Emanuel AME Church and at a United Auto Workers event last week.
The spokesperson also noted a post on X from Ian Bremmer, a political scientist and professor at Columbia University, who wrote in response to Pelosi’s comments on CNN, “Putin benefits from continued war in Gaza and expanded chaos in the Middle East.”
Russia and Putin have supported a ceasefire and have used Israel’s aggression in Gaza to criticize the United States for its role in the conflict.
Biden also warned Israel in December that it was losing international support due to its “indiscriminate” bombing of Gaza.
The original article contains 803 words, the summary contains 161 words. Saved 80%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
So, the way these comments read there is no Russian influence campaign. Interesting.
rUsSiA!
Pelosi and Biden are really making me regret defending them against right wing BS conspiracy claims and tankie conspiracy claims for the past decade.
American propaganda has a tendency to take true accusations and exaggerate them into infinity. But they are often not completely made up.
Many tankies just tend to swing too far the other way and somehow think that because America Bad the entire accusation is false. And then they start denying every single bad thing their own side has done.
The only thing shocking here is that commenters seem outraged that this would be considered a possibility.
There is a hell of a lot of a lot of foreign interference in American news and politics. Russia, China and the Saudis know no one can defeat the USA except the USA so they push as much division as possible on both ends of the political spectrum.
I want to preface that there are good people on both sides who want the bad people on both sides to stop being....bad. That said, Russia (Putin and his government) is super bad. If Putin can tie up resources anywhere else but against Russia, they're going to do it and often, it just costs them money and/or backroom political deals. The only reason I think her investigation is a bad idea, is because she's not going to find enough evidence - but not because it isn't happening.
It makes perfect sense to check if there's a good reason. I'm curious because many of the protests recently at US universities were supported or started by people who weren't students.
Source?
It sounds stupid but she's right. The new crop of loudly political "Protesters" is fueled by a Right Wing astroturfing campaign to get people to throw away their vote this November. The Right Wing is a huge, global group of rich and powerful dickheads who are slowly but surely taking over control of all the world's governments, and this is gonna be the next one, because all you kiddos can't pay attention long enough to realize that you're getting played RIGHT NOW.
I'm voting for Biden in November because I know that he'll be better for this issue (and every other issue) than Trump and I'm still calling for a ceasefire because what's happening in Gaza is wrong and evil. Sorry I don't fit in your box.
You should let the families of the 30,000 dead Palestinians know they are being played by the vast right wing cabal.
She is right
Stop resisting Genocide you filthy Commies! Vote for Genocide Joe!
Lot of rage in the comments. Surely the easiest thing is just to investigate them and prove her shamefully wrong?
I never thought they were paid by Russia till I saw this chat brigaded.
That is almost worse than her take. It's bad that she said that, but like are you actually a Russian?
"Surely the easiest thing is to let the police search my home everyday to prove them shamefully wrong."
After all, the only reason anyone would ever object to any investigation or search is if they have something to hide. Surely it can't be because they rightfully see most government investigations as outcome predetermined fishing expeditions.
I'd be completely fine with that, as long as all pro Israel-protesters are also investigated.
That would be useless. No US investigation of Israel would be remotely fair, and no wrongdoing, if found, would ever be shared with the public
Good point. It would have to be an independent organisation - South Africa seems like the best choice.
The ICJ's current case of South Africa v Israel re: the Gaza genocide is an example of one such "independent" examination. However, while better than most alternatives, the ICJ is still largely under the control of The West - as is evidenced by its history of cases, and specifically, by its history of consistently ignoring certain bad acts by certain Western states. To say nothing of its very coincidental selection of its judges
For example, Joan Donoghue, the current ICJ president judge, is a career United States Department of State diplomat. Aka, she has spent her career as an agent of The West at the very highest levels, and now is the president judge overseeing the current South Africa/Israel genocide case. Hardly a fair hearing - imagine our reaction if the president judge of the ICJ was a career Russian or Chinese state depth official - how would that affect our perception of such a "court"?
Surely Nancy is arguing in good faith. She certainly wouldn't just throw this out into the news to create a narrative that plays into her agenda without any intention of actually investigating
post your email address and password or you're a paid russian troll. surely it's easier for us to just investigate you and you can prove us shamefully wrong.
Wow people really don't want these protestors investigated for foreign interference.
Very worrying.
Hello, I suspect that you're paid by Russia to sow division. Please send me your personal information so I can start an investigation into any potential financial or personal ties you might have to Russia. If you don't have anything to hide, you should just let me investigate you and prove me wrong.
Yeah, because it couldn't possibly be that Americans are opposed to genocide.
For fuck's sake, Pelosi. Witch hunts are supposed to be a Republican thing.
wouldn’t be the first time Russia has done something like this, that said, how about we stop supporting genocide and it won’t matter
Wouldn't be the first time democrats have done this, either.
The best propaganda in the world is the truth. I wouldn't even be surprised if the Russians were signal boosting Palestinians in some way. Doesn't mean we should keep supporting a genocide though. Israel fucked up.
They're absolutely boosting Palestinians. Russia wants to prove to the world that Israel is carrying out a genocide, and that Israel/US are heavily leaning on international entities to delay any meaningful condemnation from bodies like the ICJ or UN. Russia wants to highlight the moral hypocrisy of the West, and prove that Palestinians are being exterminated
This is not because Russia cares about human rights. Rather it is because they want to paint the United States/The West as obvious hypocrites with no moral standing. Which will enable Russia to commit larger atrocities in Ukraine without meaningful rebuke. After all, these same international agencies permitted the genocide in Gaza, who are they now to condemn Russia when they massacre an entire Ukrainian city? It also will provide cover for China's invasion of Taiwan, and their further suppression of Uyghurs in NW China.
Israel is certainly engaging in genocide against Palestinian. But this crime, and the US' whitewashing of it, will be used by Russia/China as cover to carry out their own escalated human rights abuses. And by that time, the US will have lost its moral leadership in the world and Western international institutions will have similarly been shown to be utterly useless puppets of America. Which is all a very bad thing for the weak and non-nuclear peoples of the world
Yeah, but that was always going to happen. Using it to silence protest is... Maddening.
She gets intelligence briefings and does not interact with normal people. So I'm sure that genuinely colors her perception of reality on this matter. Plus she's old and has never lived in a time where Americans oppose Israel to this extent - so of course she thinks it's all astroturfed rather than being genuine
Doesn't excuse her behavior, obviously. But there is a plausible explanation for it aside from her being evil (which she is, but other factors are also at play here)
While it's all certainly Americans, and we don't like genocides, she is correct in assuming that Putin wants Trump to win, and this would be an effective way to further that goal.
Don't forget Putin was KGB.
I imagine it's more through social media manipulation and misinformation than FSB funding, I suppose I could be wrong. By way of example, though, how many times have you heard that white phosphorous is banned, even though that's not exactly true?
FSB is using social media among other things. Active Measures is one of primary ways how they operated and they adapted it well to the Internet age.
Have you thought how come that antivaxx people also have very pro Russia anti EU, anti UN anti NATO views?
Covid was a great catalyst in spreading disinformation.
Same thing with far right people in US and Europe, how come their views are mostly pro Russia and how come they greatly overlap with antivaxx?
I wanted you to be wrong, but you’re right.
Thanks for providing a link.
I've honestly just stopped doing that explainer because Israel is using it illegally.
True. But the propaganda line doesn't acknowledge the distinction, and just tries to spread the idea that the US does not care about international law, which is false.
Ahhh yes. I had someone run that with landmines too. According to them we can't get in compliance with international law until we de-mine the Korean DMZ...
Landmines are also not banned. There's a lot of subtly misleading bullshit on the internet.
There is a section on them that most of the world has signed. It's basically the US, Russia, and China that haven't signed.
It's a little more complicated than that, because there are many different kinds of landmines. Nobody bans them all.
Thank you, Flying Squid. I couldn't agree more. The Trump-resemblance in attitude on her part has been disheartening. BTW, I tend to really like your comments. Have a good day.
Thank you, you too!
Imagine how out-of-touch you have to be to represent San Francisco and not realize sincere antiwar protesters exist.
Here is my completely nonpartisan hot take. We should pass a constitutional amendment that ties the maximum age to hold public office (including judges) to the Social Security "Normal Retirement Age" at the time of passing. That is currently 67 years old. You can do whatever you want past 67, but you can't hold public office.
Do you want them to make the retirements age 90? I’d rather not give those assholes a perverse incentive to reduce benefits.
I did state "at time of passage" but we might as well say "at time of drafting" to avoid shenanigans.
In a lot of a states you can bring forward laws to ballots that amend the state constitutions with enough public signatures. I think in our modern day lack of a useful government officials we should use this tool far more often to attempt to ensure a healthier government.
What difference will that make? Also, what happens if/when life extension/age reversal becomes an everyday thing? Government regulations often move at a glacial pace, why fix something in place now that will be hard to remove when it's completely irrelevant. We are even still saddled with the stupid EC and the idea that states all get 2 senators, no matter their population size. How long would it take to remove a rule like this that quickly becomes obviously ridiculous in the near future?
Young politicians will always have an incentive to consider raising the age limit. This isn't a system that leads to irreversible change when and if the time arises where the limit is no longer appropriate.
She represents San Francisco's billionaires. She has nothing to do with people making median incomes.
So in her world, support for Israel is a universally shared opinion
Having said that, it is in Russias interest to highlight the very real genocide in Gaza. By demonstrating the obvious hypocrisy of the Western "rules-based" order, they will make it easier for Russia to commit further atrocities in Ukraine. And for China to invade Taiwan. And America's ability to credibly resist those efforts will be diminished - after all, the US enabled Israel's genocide of the Palestinians despite international condemnation, so who is America now to object to the murder of Ukrainians or the annexation of Taiwan?
Aren't you actually proving her point?
You're saying that among protesters there are sincere ones.
A call for investigation means that there is a belief that among sincere ones there are also insincere ones trying to spin shit up.
Edit: of course downvotes. It isn't even a secret https://www.mei.edu/publications/essential-questions-about-russia-hamas-link-evidence-and-its-implications
It's an easy way to silence people you don't want to hear. Someone who believes there's sincerity in the sentiment doesn't start off with: "For them to call for a ceasefire is Mr Putin's message. Make no mistake. This is directly connected to what he would like to see."
It doesn't really matter what you justify it with afterward, you're still essentially saying opposing "war" in Gaza is supporting Putin.
It also implies that anti-war protesting is something that is problematic and should be looked into. Or, rather than being pro-Palestine is wrong, and that it's a sentiment that has to be caused by foreign influence.
Enough with the Hamas sideshow bullshit. You don't have to be a Hamas supporter to be upset that Israel is indiscriminately killing Palestinians. At this point, anything Hamas did on 10/7 pales in comparison to Israel's response.
It's no secret that there are corrupt politicians either. I think we should investigate this ghoul and her financial ties to supporting genocide first before we use the secret police on citizens expressing a desire for peace.
If she was calling for both pro-Palestine and pro-Israel protest groups to be investigated for potential monetary ties to Russia, then I'd consider her claim to be more valid.
Sure, but lets also investigate the House for financial ties to billionaires.
...and Russia, probably.
And investigate both sides - Russia will support both extremes in any issue that causes unrest in Western democracies. So investigating only one side is a useful propaganda tool but kind of misses the mark.
Financial ties? She is a billionaire.
Vietnam war all over
"Foreign agents are brainwashing our youth to be against the war"
"Hey guys, we need a surefire way to make our base stay home instead of vote when we have a literal fascist running who will end the Republic if he's allowed to win!"
Nancy: "Say no more fam, I got this."
Weird way to say 3rd party
Weird way to say secure Trump's victory.
A vote for a third party is a vote for Trump. Don't be an idiot
Could you please write out the math where my 3rd party vote adds a tally to Trump?
Every vote that Biden loses to a third party means Trump has a better chance of winning the state. Unless you are voting in a pure Blue state like NY,CA, etc or a pure Red state like FL, OH, etc then you are giving Trumptard a better chance to win by not voting for Biden
Then Biden and the people who elected him in the primaries should do some self reflection.
Contrary to popular opinion on this site, most Americans don't support a cease fire in Israel. I don't either. Not until Hamas is gone
Latest polling shows over 2/3 of Americans want a ceasefire, that’s both Dems and Repugs.
Consider examining your own bias for bloodlust instead of pulling sentiment out of your ass.
Then find the votes you need elsewhere.
Enjoy another 4 years of Trump fascism, then
You too.
Man, these fuckers really fucking hate their base.
What the fuck, Nancy???
She’s been woefully out of touch on a lot of things for at least a decade at this point
We've gotten to the point that America is like one of those sci-fi dystopia movies where the council of elders rules the nation, kept alive artificially while the people starve.
More like a mr house from fallout new Vegas. A wealthy libertarian capitalist ruling over his lessers while being artificially kept alive.
I see it more like a cyber punk dystopia where mega corporations rule over everything and can do whatever the fuck they want.
You guys are getting paid!?
Turns out you don't need to get paid to support Palestinians, you just need to not be a huge piece of shit!
Wild I know.
I am once again waiting for my Soros Check. Is there a helpline I should call?
Yeah, but in roubles. May as well be monopoly money.
Anything to not have to stop a genocide.
Or at least stop supporting it.
Wish I was getting paid to support Palestine.
Yeah, pretty sure the money is on the other side.
This cunt needs to go the fuck away.
What an utter bitch. Your finances are the ones that should be investigated.
Sadly, she's following the rules that she and her colleagues made. That's the worst part
Following the rules has no relation to behaving ethically
The rules weren't given to us by God or any moral authority - they were written by lobbyists and trllion dollar corporations. Aka, entities whose self-interest is radically opposed to that of a normal American
What an Unusual Whale. In a market that averaged just under a 25% return in 2023 Pelosi managed to get 65%. Surely this has nothing to do with the fact that she and her close colleagues are in charge of regulating industry and allocating government money. It's just that she's an extra smart and talented trader. And so are a lot of her colleagues. Like, a lot lot. Beating the market is the only thing Congress is good at.
Brian Higgins is killing it.
Shouldn't we instead be investigating the politicians currently in office that we have a really good reason to believe have a monetary tie to Russia and have a mountain of evidence of being coerced or controlled by them due to said politicians' past actions (going to a secret meeting to Moscow on July 4th, ect)?
No, no, no. We have to capitulate to them.
Yep, but we won't, because they're paying people to pose as leftists supporting Palestine in order to get all the others riled up on that cause using half truths. This drives the attention towards the left (the primary intention of Right Wing propaganda). We can't ever change this until people stop being afraid to admit the truth about the Right Wing.
Dividing the party sounds like a Russian ploy. Can we investigate her first?
Netanyahu has much to gain from a Trump presidency too.
Then he should be thanking Pelosi right now.
Let's concede that the people organizing protests are receiving money from Russia. Is that actually a criminal matter? Apparently Trump's campaign working with Russia wasn't.
It's only legal when it's Israel doing it.
Pelosi is just saying that opposition to genocide means you must be Russian, which is what I keep hearing from pro-genocide centrist Democrats on lemmy.
I don't get why those same centrists are turning on her.
She's obviously corrupt, as evidenced by her investment history. And her recent actions come off as overly performative and tone deaf, like when she kneeled while wearing a Kente cloth. Aka, she has bad aesthetics, and neolib voters only see politics through the lens of aesthetics
More importantly, it's probably true that Russia is involved in spreading inflammatory propaganda on every side of every hot button issue in the United States. Their goal is to divide us and to erode our establishments moral standing. So they very likely are boosting both pro Palestinian and pro genocide messaging to accomplish that goal.
Exactly, everyone should be realizing this by now. China, Russia, Iran, and more are all probably doing this all of the time, because they have seen how effective it is to destabilize our democracy that they fear. People's basic brain processes are drawn to the inflammatory news, and social media algorithms promote these things to get views because it makes them money. It all rolls up together into a giant ball of shit that's crushing everything that's good.
Yeah exactly. Which in no way negates the fact that there is a very real genocide being carried out by Israel with the support of the United States. That is true and is real and needs to be stopped.
But it is in Russia/Iran/China's interest to exacerbate tensions on all sides of such a genocide, including by generating and boosting inflammatory social media content that is seen by Americans. A consequence of which is that a record number of Americans are seeing Israel's actions for what they truly are, which is good - but this is not being done for remotely altruistic reasons
There is no genocide lmao. If israel wanted to, Gaza would be gone tomorrow.
"There is no genocide - if Germany wanted to, the Jews would be gone tomorrow" - You, in 1935
Exactly.
All these contrarian takes telling pelosi that she is wrong when iran and russia admit to this manipulation is insane.
I have to been on lemmy in weeks and wont be for many more.
This network is a cesspit
Source for Iran and Russia admitting this?
"Eat the 1%" isn't a strong enough punishment for this kind of statement
Those stupid fucks really want to lose the election
Nearly every Republican will vote for Trump. Meanwhile, the Democrats are notoriously fickle already, and have to convince enough independents to vote for them, and they're doing everything in their power to alienate people in both camps.
Typical establishment hubris. The other side supports fascism, so we dare you not to vote for us, or just the assumption that enough people support them out of the gate to win (like Hillary Clinton). And we are fucked by the two party system again.
Literally this comic
If the cons want to understand (ah, who am I kidding, they don't want to understand anything) why many of us in the reality-based community chuckle about the idea of Pelosi even being half the liberal they seem to think she is...they might take a closer look here.
Not that I think she has ties to Russia, but really the FBI needs to be investigating members of Congress for ties to Russia.
And probably a number of governors...
Can they also investigate her insider trading?
As a liberal, peolsi is sham lol anyone not pro Palestine is just evil
What if you're anti-Middle East as a whole? I'm entirely against it as it has a bad history with no resolution in sight.
“Disinformation” has become to the left, what “fake news” is to the right - a cudgel to deflect dissent or crush differing options as false or astroturfed, and therefore not even worth discussion to dismiss
It's cute that you think Pelosi is "left-wing". Cute, but sad.
She’s not (by global nor US standards) but she did run the ‘left wing’ party in Congress for 20 years. So they certainly think she is.
Shouldn't we also investigate pro-Israel defenders for Financial Ties to Defense Contractors?
I need someone to ely5 how to get to this conclusion.
"For them to call for a ceasefire is Mr. Putin's message. Make no mistake. This is directly connected to what he would like to see”
How? What does he gain from it?
I bet he loves how she just added fuel to more devision.
One would think Putin would have more to gain from it expanding into a regional conflict which the US/NATO get dragged into
So this November Americans will be able to choose between literally a Nazi and someone who strongly supports genocide and treats anyone who doesn't support it as a traitor.
Good luck with that
strongly and eagerly supporting genocide is pretty much just the colloquial definition of Nazi, so IDK why a distinction is necessary. It's two Nazis on the ballot.
oh friend, I wish only the Nazis supported genocides, there is a wide range of ideologies whose lack of morality you are unaware of
"If you can’t handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don’t deserve me at my best." - Establishment Democrats
Can't she just wither away peacefully.
#NotTheOnion
Put her to bed. Her legacy is shit. How many bills have you passed that never got enforced Nancy that wound up getting you and a bunch of dipshit Republicans rich? How much more are you going to shit on the youth with your limp dick Catholic degenerate bullshit? Fuck her. She’s so clueless and useless.
I hate this timeline.
Yes, there probably are Russian agents trying to sow division any way they can, and they latch onto anything they perceive as potentially divisive. She's not wrong.
At the same time, the way Netanyahu has prosecuted this war is horrifying and reprehensible, actively costing Israel the moral high ground after Hamas' terrorist attack (something I wouldn't have believed possible) and basically doing everything Hamas could possibly want for their propaganda needs.
This situation is fucked and I hate every single thing about it.
These fucking dinosaurs just don't get it, do they? They come from a time when Israel and the US were blood brothers, one and the same, when it would be unconscionable for the American public to have any other view than carte blanche 100% support for Israel.
Now that view is finally (slowly) changing but they're too old and come from too different of a world to realize it, or if they do realize it (they have plenty of smart people working for them) then they just don't grasp the changing tides
Nancy needs to shut the fuck up and stop trying to give Trump the election.
Anything left of the Democrats is Russian propaganda because it has to be. If there exists a big constituency left of the Democrats than that would mean that that constituency has no political representation, due to the first pass the post system and systematic suppression by the Democrats of their left flank within the party. This would mean American democracy is hugely flawed and extra-electoral action is justified to manifest change, but this can not be the case so Q.E.D. it is all Russian disinformation. Google “Russia BLM” for some more concern trolling of this kind.
I could kinda believe that opponents of supporting Ukraine are Russian shills, but supporters of Palestina? If anything Russia is happy to keep the US army supply chain to be diverted to Israel instead of Ukraine.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Nancy Pelosi suggested that Russia may be funding pro-Palestinian protesters who have been interrupting Democratic campaign events, saying that some calling for a ceasefire are promoting “Putin’s message.”
At an event focused on abortion rights, protesters interrupted Biden’s speech at least a dozen times, demanding a ceasefire, and they were removed from the venue.
They also appeared at his speech in Charleston’s Mother Emanuel AME Church and at a United Auto Workers event last week.
The spokesperson also noted a post on X from Ian Bremmer, a political scientist and professor at Columbia University, who wrote in response to Pelosi’s comments on CNN, “Putin benefits from continued war in Gaza and expanded chaos in the Middle East.”
Russia and Putin have supported a ceasefire and have used Israel’s aggression in Gaza to criticize the United States for its role in the conflict.
Biden also warned Israel in December that it was losing international support due to its “indiscriminate” bombing of Gaza.
The original article contains 803 words, the summary contains 161 words. Saved 80%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
So, the way these comments read there is no Russian influence campaign. Interesting.
rUsSiA!
Pelosi and Biden are really making me regret defending them against right wing BS conspiracy claims and tankie conspiracy claims for the past decade.
American propaganda has a tendency to take true accusations and exaggerate them into infinity. But they are often not completely made up.
Many tankies just tend to swing too far the other way and somehow think that because America Bad the entire accusation is false. And then they start denying every single bad thing their own side has done.
I recommend this video on the Uygur genocide which heavily examplifies this issue
The only thing shocking here is that commenters seem outraged that this would be considered a possibility.
There is a hell of a lot of a lot of foreign interference in American news and politics. Russia, China and the Saudis know no one can defeat the USA except the USA so they push as much division as possible on both ends of the political spectrum.
I want to preface that there are good people on both sides who want the bad people on both sides to stop being....bad. That said, Russia (Putin and his government) is super bad. If Putin can tie up resources anywhere else but against Russia, they're going to do it and often, it just costs them money and/or backroom political deals. The only reason I think her investigation is a bad idea, is because she's not going to find enough evidence - but not because it isn't happening.
It makes perfect sense to check if there's a good reason. I'm curious because many of the protests recently at US universities were supported or started by people who weren't students.
Source?
It sounds stupid but she's right. The new crop of loudly political "Protesters" is fueled by a Right Wing astroturfing campaign to get people to throw away their vote this November. The Right Wing is a huge, global group of rich and powerful dickheads who are slowly but surely taking over control of all the world's governments, and this is gonna be the next one, because all you kiddos can't pay attention long enough to realize that you're getting played RIGHT NOW.
I'm voting for Biden in November because I know that he'll be better for this issue (and every other issue) than Trump and I'm still calling for a ceasefire because what's happening in Gaza is wrong and evil. Sorry I don't fit in your box.
You should let the families of the 30,000 dead Palestinians know they are being played by the vast right wing cabal.
She is right
Stop resisting Genocide you filthy Commies! Vote for Genocide Joe!
Lot of rage in the comments. Surely the easiest thing is just to investigate them and prove her shamefully wrong?
I never thought they were paid by Russia till I saw this chat brigaded.
That is almost worse than her take. It's bad that she said that, but like are you actually a Russian?
"Surely the easiest thing is to let the police search my home everyday to prove them shamefully wrong."
After all, the only reason anyone would ever object to any investigation or search is if they have something to hide. Surely it can't be because they rightfully see most government investigations as outcome predetermined fishing expeditions.
I'd be completely fine with that, as long as all pro Israel-protesters are also investigated.
That would be useless. No US investigation of Israel would be remotely fair, and no wrongdoing, if found, would ever be shared with the public
Good point. It would have to be an independent organisation - South Africa seems like the best choice.
The ICJ's current case of South Africa v Israel re: the Gaza genocide is an example of one such "independent" examination. However, while better than most alternatives, the ICJ is still largely under the control of The West - as is evidenced by its history of cases, and specifically, by its history of consistently ignoring certain bad acts by certain Western states. To say nothing of its very coincidental selection of its judges
For example, Joan Donoghue, the current ICJ president judge, is a career United States Department of State diplomat. Aka, she has spent her career as an agent of The West at the very highest levels, and now is the president judge overseeing the current South Africa/Israel genocide case. Hardly a fair hearing - imagine our reaction if the president judge of the ICJ was a career Russian or Chinese state depth official - how would that affect our perception of such a "court"?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Donoghue
Surely Nancy is arguing in good faith. She certainly wouldn't just throw this out into the news to create a narrative that plays into her agenda without any intention of actually investigating
post your email address and password or you're a paid russian troll. surely it's easier for us to just investigate you and you can prove us shamefully wrong.
Wow people really don't want these protestors investigated for foreign interference.
Very worrying.
Hello, I suspect that you're paid by Russia to sow division. Please send me your personal information so I can start an investigation into any potential financial or personal ties you might have to Russia. If you don't have anything to hide, you should just let me investigate you and prove me wrong.