Not buying a shaver from Philips again..

Sunny' 🌻@slrpnk.net to Mildly Infuriating@lemmy.world – 297 points –

Edit: see comments for clarifications.

I am probably late on this one, but god damn this is one nasty trick by Philips.

Context; I recently decided to upgrade my shaver, from a Philips One Blade to Philips an all-in-one-trimmer-7000. As you can see on the pictures below, they changed the charger for the adapter by maybe 1–2 millimetres, just so the old charger could not be used by the old charger. Now, this normally isn't a big deal, but with the new trimmer, the charger is USB-A only. Where's the previous one had the plug on it instead. To me this is mildly infuriating as I know need to get an extra adapter just to charge my shaver in the bathroom. They had the exact same design for the chargers, yet changed it just slightly so they wouldn't be able to be reused? Why... Philips... why?

Edit: many good points in the comments! I don't know how to manually check the voltage, but seems like folks figured it out in the comments too. Should have just been USB-C!

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the new trimmer, the charger is USB-A only. Where's the previous one had the plug on it instead.

Maybe I'm confused.

Your new trimmer takes in USB (Low Voltage DC) power.

Your old trimmer took in Plug (High Voltage AC) power.

If that's the case, yeah of course the plugs would be different? You'd fry the new one with the old plug.

The OneBlade has a transformer in the wall plug part, the actual cable going to the handheld unit is only carrying low voltage.

What low voltage though? Unless it's 5V like USB (non-PD and non-QC), they should and need to be incompatible.

came to say that. Looks like the old one was 15v, while if the new one is USB-A it was 5v.

Now, if it was USB-C, it could still have been USB-C!

Neither of them take AC power. I have an older one similar to OP's old one. It uses a wall wart and the input is definitely DC.

Are you sure they charge with the same specifications? This might just be to avoid potential fire hazards & damage.

Yea, one might be alkaline nimh while the other is lithium. Or maybe even just different flavors of lithium.

does that matter? I though only the voltage and wattage would play a role

A lithium battery needs a charging pattern that reduces voltage as it gets closer to full. And overcharging a lithium battery gets real spicy real quick. You also don’t want to charge them too fast because spicy.

Nicad and nimh batteries (I erroneously said alkaline above) don’t, you just blast it with a steady voltage until it’s done, with some nuance for nimh that’s not worth diving into here.

Makes 0 difference. The charging circuit is in charge of that logic and will accept whatever voltage is supplied (within spec) and step it down to what the battery needs.

Nice of then to make sure you cant accidentally blow up your new razor because you assumed the old cable would work if it fit.

So stupid idea. What if some 220V cable from a third-party manufacturer does fit?

Plugging in a random cable from some random manufacturer is not a thing that most people would consider doing. (Furthermore, I doubt that any 220V cable would fit, these connectors on the picture are smaller than they look).

I have about ten of these cables, and they are interchangeable.

Yeah because they are standardized. However, these are too big to fit in that razor and the only reason these cables are interchangable is because they follow that standard.

These cables only supply power straight from the net, which is why they are interchangeable. I have some trimmers/shavers that use a similar cable as the one OP is showing, but they are much smaller then what you are showing. The trimmers have an adapter somewhere in between (because incorporating it into a handheld device would be bulky and... why would you want to?) So, because the power is 'adapted' it's no longer interchangeable.

The old cable supplies 15V, which would fry your shaver that is expecting 5V

I think the real sin here is making the shaver dependent on stored charge instead of just letting it run immediately after being plugged in.

It's a common safety feature for wet & dry razors. It's so people don't take them into the shower or bath while it is plugged in.

Battery charged trimmer lets you shower and trim, which is pretty awesome.

I think commenter meant trimmer should be able to work druring charging

Ooooh, yeah. That's a characteristic that a lot of electronics have that really don't like.

Is the charge voltage the same on both?

I guess not, the USB one is 5V obviously, but the other one can be 12, 7.2, 8.4, 3.2, whatever

Figure eight connectors like that input line voltage. So even if the charge voltage is different, the chargers still require the same line voltage.

These are smaller plugs than the figure-eight cords you're thinking of that plug into old boomboxes, Playstations, etc. They're DC voltage, not AC.

The WTF here is not that the manufacturer changed the connector slightly, it's that they were too cheap to include the AC-to-DC converter part of it like they did on their older models, so OP has to buy a USB wall wart to power the stupid thing. The fact that he can't use the old charger with the new shaver is just an irritating side effect.

I have the same razor. I promise you that it's not DC. It's a regular plug that passes 120/60 to the device.

Any company that's passing 120 (or god forbid 240v) into those tiny little plugs with almost no insulation between them is begging to be sued for electrocuting people. No device used in the bathroom should be passing straight 120v through a connector like that.

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I have both of these and one charger is 8v and the other is 15v.

Isn't it to make sure that you're not mixing two incompatible chargers? I have 2 Philips chargers that do fit (as far as I can see), but are not the same voltage. I've previously also had something like this where 2 fitting chargers were completely different electrically, one 12V AC and the other 9V DC. One time a family member mixed them up, bit luckily the extra voltage didn't fry anything. I don't mind having to get an extra charger of it prevents me from doing something dumb and frying my electronics.

I can tell you for certain, I measured my plug phiips (foil and 'one') and they are both 14VDC. So short answer is that the plug charger would blow up the usb trimmer you have (which is 5VDC).

The reason I know this and measured them, was because I wasnt sure the two plug chargers were the same, and I didnt want to blow up my philips one.

Also the charger is required to show its voltage and amperage output ratings.

This is true, but something about being an Electronics Engineer makes you want to check. (I didn't even trust Philips to get it right, but they did.)

I didn't go into detail, but simple Dashed/Solid line doesn't tell you the whole story. Those simple wall warts are not fancy switch mode, or even old school rectified. I measured 14VDC unloaded, which I can probably guestimate in experience, to be a 9VDC loaded reading.

The actual reading on wallwarts are generally untrustworthy, unless its a thing from Samsung or apple, where the circuitry are what you would expect (switched etc).

God, why don't they just make it usb-c PD and be done with it?

This style of connector wedges itself watertight, so there's that

Because USBC isn't watertight

The one on my phone is though? It even knows when it's wet and won't charge until it's dry.

Many wet-dry rechargeable razors don't let you run them when they're plugged in. Power cords + water = ⚡💀 ⚡

You mean cable or socket?

Here's my only issue with making everything in the world USB-C...

Different cables have different functions or even are able to handle different voltages and amperage and right now, it's not clear what cable holds what functionality.

If there were some sort of international color code standard or something, it would be perfect. As of now, I have to keep track of what cable goes with what device.

Every cable should be rated minimum 5V 3A, have functional CC, power and data(Dp, Dn) pins as Type C spec requires. Which means it should also be capable of USB PD(still doesn't need data pins).

AFAIK every in-spec cable should be able to carry 20V 3A.

Problem is not bad standard, problem is non-compliant cables.

If all your devices are USB-C PD rated then you only need to have cables and wall adapters for your highest rated device as all others will only demand what they can tolerate when the handshake happens after plugging in the cable. The only exception would be devuces that don't follow the spec but use the plug for cost saving reasons which is a completely seperate issue.

I'm with you. Our phones, the laptop, the Switch, even my vape pen, all use USB C, but most of the cables we have only work on half the devices. Kind of defeats the purpose of being "universal".

are the voltages actually the same?

I don't see how it could be. One plugs into line voltage and the other 5v usb. The reason they changed the plug size is probably to keep OP from frying his new razor.

One plugs into line voltage

Well, but that's not what's coming out of the end that you plug into the razor. The wall plug for it contains a transformer that steps it down to 15V. Would still be a bad idea, but it's not line voltage.

After seeing some other comments I see that is the case. The one I had plugged straight in with the transformer built into the razor. That is why I said probably though, since I couldn't know for sure.

I don't know how to check that, also can't find the specs on the old one.

FYI, to figure this out you would look at the part that plugs into the wall. there's a bunch of writing on it. at one point it will say something like " input: 120-240 VAC, output: 15 VDC 0.5 A". that's true for pretty much all transformer bricks. like if you want to see how much a USB brick will supply it will say on there "5V 2A" or whatever.

I only checked the (new) one that is USB-a only and that didn't have any writing on it.

Make sure the voltage and power requirements are the same. Maybe the old one cannot deliver enough juice for the new one.

That's one reason a lot of device designers go for USB C proper: it supports multiple voltages and multiple power levels, and in a way where the devices shouldn't be able to pull too much power from a smaller charger. (assuming they implemented the spec and didn't just use the plug anyways) In theory, one smart charger with enough oomph could charge anything that sticks to spec up to 240W.

Yup. Lots of conflicting guidance here, but OP needs to check the actual power requirements for each. If they're the same, then okay, Philips were kinda being dirtbags with the plug. If not, whether different DC voltages or one feeding AC into the shaver body itself, then the bigger sin is not changing the plug MORE to make it more obvious they're not the same.

Remember the good ol' days where it was barrel jacks or raw terminals regardless of what the device actually worked with?

ahhh, those were the days ... of easily breaking things.

My favorite was devices that just said 12v X Amps, but never specified center positive or center negative.

Fuck you Sony, stop using center negative. It's a crime against humanity.

looks like the old charger was 15V, while, if the new one is USB-A its 5V

Ouch, non-standard plug for a standard power source? That's almost worse. If only certain insanely rich companies didn't do it as a standard practice even after the EU tells them to knock it off...

Philips was a great company decades ago. They've really gone to shit. Especially their CPAP fiasco (Respironics recall).

Philips sold most of their IP and companies use their name. Hue is not made by them either anymore. The CPAPs are made by another company that is owned by Philips. It's all just a name now.

If they are the same voltage just take a razor and shave some of the material away, I had to do this to get a c7 connector to fit into my xbox one, the rubber was just molded too far to fit

The charging requirements have likely changed so the plug was redesigned sup you don't fry your new shaver using the old plug/adapter.

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They all do this. Every time.

I’ll await the EU enforcing USB-C here too.

Having USB-C PD on a Shaver would be nice, but also costly as it would require the Shaver to 'ask' the power supply for power. And they probably gonna save a penny there.

EU enforces standard chargers, not type c specifically. It can be micro, mini or even type b

Seems to be USB-C explicitly. But might change in the future. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topics/en/article/20220413STO27211/usb-type-c-to-become-eu-s-common-charger-by-end-of-2024

The battery died on my old shaver. Because I can't leave well enough alone, I decided to see if I could replace it. Spent so much time tracking down the battery model number and looking for a replacement only to find out it's a standard triple a. It's identity was obfuscated by the stupid labeling. Soldered it in and bam, razor still works for several years.

ive got philips body groomer which in time become somehow a curiosity: once its fully charged it runs until battery gets dry as it should but if i by any chance press the button i need to the whole cycle charge

So infuriating that they would send you a charger that works with the device 😤😤 how fucking dare they

My Philips shaver does not work whilst charging. What's that all about?

Luckily the battery is good but it gives very little warning when its about to run out. I dont grow facial hair very quickly or very thickly but several times I've had to leave the house partially shaved. Doesn't make any sense. That's the whole point of electricity, to use stuff whilst plugged in!

Some of the older models work while charging. For example the MG7790 or MG7750/49 (not to be confused with the new version 7910/49).

The reason I know this is because I recently bought one from amazon specifically because I want it to work while plugged in but they sent me one that doesn't (MG7770). I sent it back and now waiting for the correct one to be delivered.

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Coincidentally, I just got a knock-off Soda Stream from Phillips. It's over $150 cheaper and works 2x-3x times better. I wanted to build something similar for a homemade soda bar concept, and discovered how truly cheap it can be to make soda and carbonated water at home. I was shocked at what a simple concept it is, and how much of a profit these sodas water companies make. Phillips even charging $50 for their system is a total rip-off.

Truthfully, I think the increase in quality in the Phillips machine is due to fewer parts is an "exception that proves the rule" as these in-bottle carbonators seem to work better with fewer parts. It's just a pressure hose connected to a co2 tank. Literally, all of $6 if you were to build one yourself from parts on Amazon (or $3 if you got he Alibaba route)

I truly believe that the fewer parts the better in any DIY or commercial product due to the less chance of a failure in a part if there are fewer parts. This works fantastically for the "lower quality" producing companies, like Phillips.

My inventive and engineering entrepreneur friends and I call this "fewer parts the better" concept, a "Murphy's law compensator" as the fewer parts there are, the fewer parts that can statistically "go wrong"

I lost the cable of a baby bliss trimmer. They have proprietary plugs that are about the same price as the trimmer. Moved away from them when ASAP...

Also very environmentally unfriendly. Shame on you, Philips!

From what I can tell, the non-USB OneBlades charge at 4.3V, not 5V.

It's probably a small enough difference that a 5V charger would work fine for the 4.3V shaver, but it wouldn't work the other way around.

Any change in the dc input/amps? Because that’s the only reason I would give any credence to it.

Please update the post with the facts from the data sheet OP

I have the cheapest Philips shaver. It is pretty mid. It came with its own charger. On the shaver's side it looks like a standard ungrounded 220V female connection. But it actually is some propriety DC thingy. Very annoying. Why not just use USB-C?

cheapest Philips shaver

use USB-C

You can only pick one

cheapest house

fire safety

This is what regulations are for

Isn't the standard a token amount of $1 or something for a license, I don't think price really comes into it.

I imagine manufacturing USB C chargers is still more expensive than the shit we had 20-30 years ago, which you'll find in the cheapest appliances

USB-IF only chargea for VID. You can use USB as charging port without any fees. Even with USB PD.

I saw a phone company make a trimmer, they used to do the same but now they are using USB c

After realizing both shavers and cordless toothbrush chargers are going this route, I gave in and installed these in the bathroom

Leviton T5632-BW R02-T5632-0Bw... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002DQT22G?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

The electrical code in my area requires using GFCI outlet for outlets within a certain distance of water source. I don't remember precisely the distance (and it likely vary a bit by jurisdiciton), but i know that in my bathroom, there's nowhere beyond it.

In order to use that sort of outlet in a bathroom like mine, it would have to have GFCI protection as well as USB, be a second outlet wired to the GFCI protected terminal of a GFCI outlet, or be wired to a circuit breaker with GFCI protection built in, in the electrical panel.

In all my cases where I installed those, I got lucky and the GFCI protection is upstream in another outlet somewhere.

My travel trimmer takes a AA battery and I just keep a little USB charger for that.

I've seen rechargeable batteries with micro USB ports in them so you can charge the battery directly, you don't even need a charger. I thought that was pretty nifty.

Could get those. Might be a good option for some. I just have a lot of rechargeables already for smoke alarms and clocks and what have you. I think I would find plugging in every battery individually to be more trouble. Even finding micro USB cables around the house is becoming a challenge.

Totally understand. I just wanted to mention them because I thought they were a cool idea. I don't own any myself, just standard rechargeables. That said, most of my devices that take AA batteries last so long at this point that I rarely have to change them. I'm guessing a shaver is a lot more power-hungry than most though.

I don’t actually know how long it lasts; I’m unusually vigilant about swapping batteries. I just put a fresh one in the razor, I’ll let it wiggle itself to death and tell you how long that takes.

Don't worry about it. It's not a big deal. I'm just talking about AA battery-powered devices in general.

Yeah, I just did some math instead. Toothbrush is a similar wiggly thing and it will supposedly run 720-ish minutes on a AAA battery, so more than that, probably.

Yep. It's not too easy to find usb-c shavers yet though :/

That is so annoying.

Philipps is a shady company and I support anyone who decides not to buy from them ever again.

With the Hue bulbs the force you to share data, so I had to manually install an old version of the app just to not share data - no other way to opt out. So I can't say I'm surprised they pulled something like this.

tl;dr: Keep away from Philipps!

Hue bulbs, Zigbee dongle, raspberry pi, HomeAssistant

Boom no data sharing

Last shaver I bought I made sure I could charge it off usb

Even thought I own a OneBlade (gift), I'm happy that my old-school, safety razor doesn't have any of the problems these modern shavers do.

They are more reliable, and they give a better shave, and they aren't plagued by planned-obsolescence, and....

I didn't get a DE razor until I was in my late 30's. Gutted that it took me so long. I never really liked electric shavers so used your average Gillette razor and suffered from irritation up until I switched. DE razors are cheaper (in the long run) and easily a better shave. Not to mention no irritation.

I'd say DE Razors are one of my life pro tips. It's a shame the large majority of nations use the traditional safety razor but then marketing and advertising has worked it's magic.

One is for charging the other is for power. There's a huge difference. At least with my phillips electric - the power inverter is inside the shaver. The cord is just a bog standard C-type power cord.

Your new cable is a charger cord -- because it's already pulling the correct DC voltage from the USB port.

[e] I was wrong - both my Norelco and my Andis foil shaver both have AC inverters on the charge cables. Interestingly, the Philips charges at 15v! Probably so you can use it while it charges.

If one of them is 5V then I have no idea why they didn't use Type B or Micro USB.

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I know with one, its shit. I hate phillips for that

Could you shave (heh) a few millimeters with a cutter or something?