“Immensely disappointing”: Nike killing app for $350 self-tying sneakers

flop_leash_973@lemmy.world to Technology@lemmy.world – 484 points – “Immensely disappointing”: Nike killing app for $350 self-tying sneakers
arstechnica.com

It is hard to imagine that there was not someone inside of Nike that lost their faith in humanity when the pitch for these things was originally taking off.

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Remember folks: Any smart device you have that requires an internet connection or app is e-waste waiting to happen at the company's whim.

I mean, there are some devices that fundamentally have to be online to be useful. You're not losing anything there.

A Roku stick requires the Roku streaming service to be functioning to be useful. If there wasn't a service with streaming media, the stick would have nothing to stream.

The problem is when you have a device that doesn't have that fundamental requirement but is then unnecessarily tied to an online service. Home automation requiring Internet connectivity, for example, when virtually no home automation actually requires access to any online services, or converting non-live-service video games to live-service video games.

A Roku stick requires the Roku streaming service to be functioning to be useful. If there wasn't a service with streaming media, the stick would have nothing to stream.

In cases like this; it's still only artificially dependant on Rokus services.

The hardware is perfectly capable of streaming from any number of services, including entirely self-hosted solutions like Emby/Jellyfin/Plex; yet the device can be remotely bricked just by nolonger providing Rokus services to it.

A Roku stick requires the Roku streaming service to be functioning to be useful. If there wasn't a service with streaming media, the stick would have nothing to stream.

Still becomes e-waste if Roku drops support for it. Granted, that's not the best example as I've got an old-ass Roku that still works, but the point stands. Same goes for Fire sticks and other devices like that.

They really should be forced to, at minimum, release unlocking tools to allow 3rd party firmware. (Think flashing OpenWRT to a Roku and using it as a travel router or something). Ideally, they'd also release a development kit to foster "after-life" uses of such devices.

Lots of companies will accept old devices back (supposedly to recycle), but there's another "R", re-use, that's also an important part of the process.

Still becomes e-waste if Roku drops support for it. Granted, that’s not the best example as I’ve got an old-ass Roku that still works, but the point stands. Same goes for Fire sticks and other devices like that.

Just look at Spotify's Car Thing.

Thank you, lol. I knew there was a very recent example but was blanking on it.

Are kids still even taught the three Rs (reduce, reuse, recycle)? I was always taught that they were listed in order of importance, but that seems to conflict with modern capitalism.

Honestly, no idea. But yeah, the latter two seem in direct opposition to the line always going up at all costs.

Apart from their use in the slogan, I don't remember any importance being placed on reduce or reuse when I was at school. I guess "recycle" is the only one compatible with continually buying more shit we don't need.

A Roku stick requires the Roku streaming service to be functioning to be useful.

That's not true at all. You could use a Roku with only Plex/Jellyfin and it would be immensely useful.

So if you own pair of these shoes you will no longer be able to use the features on said shoes?

Without the app, wearers are unable to change the color of the sneaker's LED lights. The lights will either maintain the last color scheme selected via the app or, per Nike, "if you didn't install the app, light will be the default color." While owners will still be able to use on-shoe buttons to turn the shoes on or off, check its battery, adjust the lace's tightness, and save fit settings, the ability to change lighting and control the shoes via mobile phone were big selling points of the $350 kicks.

Yeah I be pissed if this was done to me. Someone should find a way to access the changing of the lights without the app.

I own a pair. You do lose some functionality without the app. The ability to change the light colors, set and recall presets.

You can still tighten them without the app. And I think you can set one preset as well (not sure tbh)

They announced the sunsetting of the app like 2 months ago but the media is capitalizing on the announcement now for some reason. It sucks but it’s not the end of the world not having the app.

Not like the apk won't still be obtainable. I still have a pandora apk from around 2012 I use (ad free, cost free) that still works just fine.

The apk will likely outlast the shoes. Ever since all the shoe companies started using polyurethane soles, hydrolysis eventually just disintegrates them, even if you almost never wear them. After about 10 years they're usually not wearable any longer.

Just by chance because Pandora is very conservative about API changes and it happens to use Android APIs still supported.

And Nike will never mess with an old Bluetooth apk and pair of sneakers. It will work as long as android allows for an apk designed for Android 14.

Losing the app means that people can't change the color of the light on the shoe. You can still do all the other shit manually.

That said, I feel like companies should be required to open source shit like this once they drop support for it. Otherwise stuff like this adds to the mountains of e-waste poisoning the planet.

companies should be required to open source shit like this once they drop support for it

Damn right they should!

As if putting a bunch of circuits and lights on a fucking shoe wasn't e-waste to start with...

I don't disagree with you, but I find the concept of an open source shoe to be amusing.

I find the concept of a closed source shoe horrifying. 🙂

Companies really should just opensource their apps at this point, or at the very least publish their protocols.

Can't see how dropping apps and bricking devices benefits anyone.

A point could be made that it hurts the planet and they should be held responsible for their shenanigans.

As with that spotify car thing.

Make a law that says, if you don't keep supporting it you have to open source it. It's just fair.

Yes, not gonna happen. You know how many new devices get sold simply because old ones are no longer getting updates/software support? It's planned obsolescence. No modern country would pass a law like that.

Absolutely 100% unironically: Not with that attitude.

Not sure which country you're from, but I've basically lost the any hope I can influence any policy in my country with ANY attitude. I hope I'm wrong about other countries.

Look up "right to repair" laws. There are efforts all across the world to get them passed, and many of them have been successful. This is absolutely a thing that you can in fact make a difference on.

Agreed. Companies should be required by law to release source code, build guides, documentation and service architecture for services or apps that are required by hardware they sold.

While there are bigger fish to fry at the moment, socially speaking, the problem is only going to get worse if legislators don’t step in.

But then you'd see it wasn't secure in the slightest, and you could untie somebody's laces when they walk past you.

Source code escrow is a thing, too. I've only seen it in the context of (as I understood it) protection against going out of business, but perhaps it could apply to discontinued products, as well?

Of all the overpriced bullshit people flock to for no reason other than to be suckers, sneakers are the one that made the least sense to me.

I talked to a bunch of sneaker heads over the years and i don't think i'll ever get it. I don't like to shit on someone's hobby, but buying shitty super overpriced sneakers made by slaves is a weird ass hobby.

Especially considering most of the time they likely won’t even wear the things because of either how much they cost or because they find them to be a collectors item.

Personally I’d rather buy the slaves. And set them free of course. Yes, of course.

Anything requiring a smartphone app to use should be an instant non-starter for everyone.

The problem is that there are usually no other alternatives, or at least not any easily accessible. Heck, these days even routers require app activation for no reason other than to be shitty.

There should be a law against this. All hardware requiring an app should also have an open API.

Heck, these days even routers require app activation for no reason other than to be shitty

There are more often than not alternatives that exist that don't have this requirement.

How did you post this comment?

Were you using an app?

Edit: humour is lost on the humourless

There isn't one app to post to Lemmy, there's a dozen. And they're open source mostly. And there's a web page. And you can self-host a fediverse node. And ActivityPub is an open standard. And and and.

Now if this was Reddit, you might be closer to the mark.

How did you post this comment? // Were you using an app?

Please refer to the context when interpreting what others say dammit. Your questions stink "ackshyually lol lmao" from a distance.

The OP is talking about sneakers unnecessarily requiring an "app"; in this context, Farts' "anything" should be interpreted as "physical goods" (like sneakers), not "internet services that may be accessed through a browser or specialised software" (like Lemmy).

I'm sorry oh mighty one.

I'll go and enjoy the pun over here while you try to figure out if what I wrote was intentionally funny or accidentally funny, or funny at all. Social ques are hard aren't they.

Cut off the crap.

"Ackshyually I was totally joking! Yeah, it was a joke! You're just too stupid to get the clue" doesn't work if there's no clue that it's a joke on first place, no matter if you rephrase it with Reddit style passive aggressiveness.

Please do everyone in Lemmy a favour and stay in Reddit. You'll be in more suitable company.

You might have intended it to be funny, but it wasn’t, as it is clear from the downvotes. So instead of trying to convince everybody in multiple desperate comments that they are wrong, maybe just move on.

Ya a little late to the game buddy. Convo is a day old at this point.

But thanks for trying

why does it need an app? Why not just have a button on the shoe that pulls the laces into their chambers and forget about connecting it to your phone?

It could have a button.

But a button wouldnt give them all the permissions on your phone to harvest your data for sale and exploitation.

Because once their app is installed on your phone, they can send you push notification ads for their next great shoes.

It does. The only thing you can't do is change the lighting color I think

having it with any ability to connect to your phone at all is dumb. Why does everything have to be connected to everything else all the time to work? Oh right...surveillance from advertising companies

I just bought a breathalyzer so I can know my BAC when out having a couple at happy hour and be safe to drive home. It works standalone because it has a button and screen, but all over the place it's like "it has an app!!! It can connect to your phone!!!" who the fuck would ever want to do that?

I ain't too worried, I'm not buying any light up shoes especially from Nike anytime after I die

Isn't the point of self-lacing shoes that they shouldn't require manual user input at all? What is the app for then?

RGB

That’s what my shoes were missing: spyware!

Oh god! The Chinese know how tight my shoes are? They could overthrow the entire globe with such devastating info!

It’s adorable you think “shoelace tightness” is all that app has awareness of.

I don't know why my first thought from this was Ruth Gator Binsburg. Now I just want something like a shitty_watercolor of that.

Back in our Business 101 class in university, we were supposed to come up with a new business idea and pitch it. We came up with a self-tying tie. Guess we weren't too far off lol

The liability for a product that tightens around a neck would make it an untouchable concept for businesses. I could imagine a dystopian future where some big brand like Dickies selling it and when it kills people they claim the fine print very clearly disallows any shirts except for patented self-tying tie constrained collar shirts.

Or there might be a future leader who is a Darth Vader wannabe and creates a system where everyone wears a self-tightening tie and he can gesture at anyone who annoys him to choke them until he stops gesturing.

Haaaaaagh, that's fuckin excellent. Now Invision a dystopian future where hackers assassinate a corrupt politician by strangulation. Fuck yeah dystopian future.

it shouldnt be TOO hard to make it safe: just add a lanyard style breakaway at the back of the next. light tug pops the tie off.

You could make it simply self tighten, saving you one arm movement.

I think the villain in Law Abiding Citizen killed somebody using a trap tie of some sort.

Not a complicated engineering problem to solve though. A weak enough stepper motor wont be able to strangle anything even if its controlling software is hacked and turned to 11.

For sure, but a large many modern problems which result in fatalities daily are not hard engineering problems to solve.

Make it a subscription, say it has AI and you can start buying yachts

Add bonus features already installed on the shoe, but need an extra subscription. Maybe clips to connect them to your bike pedals, but it costs 4.99€/month to actually use that feature. Think about all the feature subscription you could sell for a good hiking shoe.

(I really hope they won't do this, but I can see them trying it.)

We need self tightening AI nuts and bolts. We could sell them to Boeing or something idk.

Oh yeah. Let's hand aviation safety to the technology that thinks deathcap mushrooms are delicious and healthy.

I dont know what you're on about.

My Glue special pizza is delicious, and solved my issues with loose bowel movements! I dont even have bowel movements at all anymore! Its great!

what happens if you are wearing these when the app gets shut off? 0.o

Are hyper-expensive running shoes STILL a thing? Damn, people need to grow up.

Damn, people need to grow up.

They just move onto hyper-expensive cars, watches, Warhammer figurines, purses, jewelry, etc. The human instinct to flaunt and/or collect is pretty strong in certain people.

If anything the gap is bigger than ever as the top end shoes are basically performance enhancers like the nike airflys used to set most records..and their new vaporflys being banned in the Olympics.

I guess it's better than hyper expensive shoes just being a paying for a brand thing?

I thought the shoe market had nothing to do with actual usefulness, just how rare they are. It's not like most of the people buying these expensive shoes actually wear them.

That's the sneaker market, not running shoes

I wasn't aware there was a difference. What classifies a shoe as a runner vs a sneaker? It seems like there's a ton of overlap to me

Running shoes will focus on function with support, breathability, moisture wicking, and breathability. They aren't necessarily the most comfy shoes to walk in because your gait is different walking vs running. The front of the shoe will have more cushion to help support you pushing off in your running stride.

Sneakers are meant to be more stylish everyday shoe. They focus more on form over function.

You're right there can be overlap. Adidas ultra boosts are stylish enough to be worn every day and are technically a running shoe. Not a lot of runners use them but they do offer the function of a running shoe.

Interesting to know. I've been buying running shoes and wearing them everyday. I don't even run or jog really. I guess I could be buying sneakers and they might end up more comfortable? At the rate I wear through shoes though, my current ones will probably last another 5 years.

A good sneaker will virtually always be way more comfortable than a good running shoe. To risk going with an extreme analogy, it's like trying to hammer a nail with a sledgehammer - it will get the job done, sure, but it's absolutely not made for that.

In the end you can start making a shoe that almost functions like a prosthetic. We are not animals designed to always be running, but with a few tweaks you can make that closer to be true.

That is so very not the problem here. Everyone has things they enjoy that other people think are frivolous.

...are you under the impression that high-end running shoes are a scam, or something?

Luxury goods have been a growing market alongside the wealth divide.

“I’ve got to leave early.”
“Why? We’re having fun!”
“Sorry, I got to go home and charge my shoes.”

We surely live in the future! /s

Those self-tying sneakers don't appear to have any laces to self-tie...

How long before it requires a subscription?