Is Linux (dumb)user friendly yet?
So I'm building a new computer before the end of the year and lemmy is obviously pushing me towards Linux.
I am not computer savvy, I have a family member that will help me set up my PC, but I do not want to be calling/messaging them every day when I want to open a program.
Basically my question comes down to: can I operate a Linux PC these days without needing to troubleshoot or type code.
I use my computer about once a week for a few hours I would say, so any time spent troubleshooting is time wasted.
Thanks!
EDIT: since a lot of people are asking what programs I typically use, I'll just list my most used programs.
Word, Excel, ect(I'm fine with alternatives)
Spotify
Gimp (would have been a make or break, so I'm glad it's supported)
Brave browser (browser is a browser)
Steam
Discord
I would say that while I could figure out how the kernels work, I'm at a point with computers these days where I don't have the time. My priorities fall with a seamless daily experience. If I have the time to figure something out I can, but ideally my day to day usage being unbotherd is what I'm after.
A lot of the comments so far have been helpful! I'm definitely going to give Linux a fair shot with my new build, probably start with Mint.
It could not be simpler.
My grandfather in law kept getting scammed and installing viruses while on Windows. I installed Linux Mint on his desktop last year, setup automatic updates, created a non admin account for him, changed a few easy configurations to hide the technical stuff that appears when you turn the computer on, and he fucking loves it.
Keep in mind getting this man to login to Netflix on his TV is a minimum 30 minute long phone call. One time, we had to send people to check on him because his phone was off for 3 days straight; he put it on airplane mode and couldn’t figure out how to turn it off.
He has had 0, yes, exactly 0, problems with his computer since I installed Linux Mint. It’s faster, to point where he noticed and commented on it, and he finds it easier to use than Windows, which has been on every computer he has ever owned.
He brags to anyone who will give him the time of day how much he loves it.
I promise you, it’s really that easy.
I feel like Linux is good for power users or users like your grandfather who are not very tech savvy. The issues arise with users savvy enough to get themselves into trouble but not enough to understand how to fix it or how to do a slightly more advanced task.
Same experience with my relatives. I had some family whose Macbooks were no longer able to update (for Apple forced obsolescence reasons). They run Mint now, and have never had a single problem since I first set them up.
Well, one of them called me because they couldn't figure out how to attach a file to an email... But that problem would have been identical on Mac OS.
Yes it is. Pick a newbie friendly distribution. Say Ubuntu.
IMHO Windows is only "user friendly" because it's preinstalled on most PC's.
User friendliness comes with experience.
I assume you're talking about Desktop Environments. Yes, of course. KDE and Gnome rival MacOS as far as usability goes. The better part is that other software development groups port their software over to Linux as well and make it as seamless as possible.
People run into confusion here when people flood the comments on user questions like this, so let me shut that down right now.
If you need something that is a straight Desktop Environment, get a distro with KDE or Gnome, and a known OS that will have a lot of user base getting questions and answers if you even run into any.
Fedora or Ubuntu. Don't listen to anyone arguing for their preferred favorites.
Don't listen to performance comments.
You want a solid, no issues, not needing to look for help kind of distro. It's those two, no question, and they both have KDE and Gnome variants.
That's really about it.
I would maybe add Linux Mint to that list, but otherwise you're spot on. Fedora and Ubuntu are the easiest and most robust systems for novice computer users.
Depends. If someone is gaming with new hardware, don't use a distro that doesn't update the kernel quickly and regularly.
Almost every problem with hardware on mint is solved by going through the process of updating the kernel or switching to a distro with up to date libraries.
It's fine for a lot of people, but it doesn't "just work" outside of the use case of only browsing the internet and word documents.
This is coming from someone who used mint for 4 years. There was about a dozen times where the software on the software center was so out of date that it simply didn't work and I had to resort often to using random ppa's which often broke other things. Definitely not user friendly.
That being said, Cinnamon is probably one of the most user friendly DEs for people switching from window. It is very nice.
Fair points. I've only ever taken Mint for a quick spin and that was a decade ago. I just see it constantly recommended as one of the most user-friendly distros, thus the maybe recommendation.
Personally, I'm all in on Fedora Atomic for my hosts and (mostly) Arch in my containers.
Linux Mint is Ubuntu with specific changes.
That's how all distros work. They exist so that you don't have to make changes yourself.
Fully agree with this. There will be a slight learning curve since it will be different from what your used to, but it's friendly enough to figure out.
If you know the windows program you want to use just search something like "Linux alternative for x" (sometimes there is specific KDE or Gnome progs)
Only thing I might add would be potentially Bluefin. It is Fedora with Gnome, except Atomic. It markets itself as:
It’s been fantastic for me with automatic updates and everything installed through flathub so you don’t bork your system with any misconfigured installs.
https://projectbluefin.io/
Also: should you wish for something with Fedora literally in the name, Fedora Silverblue and Fedora Kionite are the upstream—published by the Fedora Project—versions of Bluefin that use GNOME and KDE, respectively.
Either could be an excellent choice should you wish for
https://fedoraproject.org/atomic-desktops/silverblue/
https://fedoraproject.org/atomic-desktops/kinoite/
There's also a KDE spin called Aurora: https://getaurora.dev
No. This is your own spin.
Why the fuck can't y'all just let people have it easy and try shit out before you feel you MUST say your piece about your own fucking experience and offer complicated alternatives?
Fedora and Ubuntu for beginners. That's it. Nobody's asking for performance or immutable bullshit until you confused them with it. STFU!
Well this is literally Fedora, and I offered it for consideration, not a recommendation. This seems a tad hostile.
*Immutable. Get lost.
Stop using Brave, people.
IMO it's the best (desktop) Chromium-based browser. Which means it's a bad browser but there are a lot of worse options.
I agree on the stop using brave part, but if your blog starts with this argument, your opinion piece means shit
I also agree with you. Please don't be shy with the downvotes
I'll be slightly contrarian to others and give a different perspective: you may find yourself hitting some roadblocks, I'll try to explain.
I set up Linux Mint for my elderly parents. The key thing is, I set it up for them, functioning as the administrator for that machine, making sure they had a non admin account and configured their desktop to only show the shortcuts they cared about (firefox).
It worked fine, and I only got calls once every few months. They got scared if some popup occured, or if they accidentally saved something to their desktop that they wanted to get rid of. I don't know if that really meets the definition of seamless, and I don't know if you'd even consider those problems.
The other thing that can happen, is hardware interfaces. I know that you've listed out your use case. I'm just saying that if your birthday rolls around and someone buys you a 3d printer where you "just plug it in", you're going to be in for a long troubleshooting day, if it isn't natively supported.
With Steam games, you can often get away with enabling proton, but... Small issues like being able to select multiple drive folders have sent me down long troubleshooting avenues as well. And when I use the word troubleshoot, I'm inevitably referring to the command line.
Lots of people are encouraging you to try, and you can make that decision. I just want to toss out that it might not be seamless. But I don't think Windows is seamless either. It's just what most people are used to.
This. I've never used Windows 11. Apparently, they are removing the Control Panel. If I can't figure out how to fix a problem that comes up, I'm going to have to search for the answer and test out solutions. This is no different from Linux.
Hardware support is also two-sided.
For example: game controllers.
On Linux, any first-party Switch, Playstation, or Xbox controller works out of the box. Most 3rd party controllers also work out of the box. Even Wii remotes work once paired over bluetooth (and the pointing works but takes some setup).
On windows, xbox controllers work out of the box, except for very old ones which require a driver. 3rd party pc controllers will tend to work out of the box (or sometimes with a driver), but wired Switch and Playstation controllers need hacky workarounds to work or to get full functionality. Wireless controllers can often be paired with bluetooth, but I've had hit and miss luck with windows and first party Sony/Nintendo controllers
It's better to ask which distro is dummy proof. Some are made for noobs and windows users, others are not, and they're all based on "Linux".
Mint, Debian, and Fedora are all good starter options, and all are made to get stuff done without having to use the command line.
Debian without the CLI?
...What?
Debian is the only one there I haven't actually tried myself as a daily driver, so idk if using the terminal is necessary. I've just heard it's solid and I assumed all normal user operations can be done via GUI in gnome or KDE like you can with Fedora.
As a Debian daily-driver with occasional
systemdproblems, ...not really.But like, this should be very possible.
Linux Mint is pretty user friendly. I'm also not a fan of typing code, but so far the only thing I've HAD to use terminal for came with really easy instructions and the commands were listed out (like a recipe) so all I had to do was copy/paste and things worked out just fine.
The 1 issue I ran into was upgrading from LM 21.3 to 22. I had to go back to 21.3 because 22 couldn't connect to wifi (I'm guessing because my machine is old) but 21.3 works perfect. My other machine is a lot newer and just about to the end of its warranty period, so once that's up I plan to switch that one to Linux as well.
Start with Mint and use flatpaks. You will be all set.
Dumb user friendly (having no particular background): yes
Dumb user friendly (having Windows background): no
Windows knowledge makes learning other OS harder because Windows is the weirdest OS out there.
Eh, in terms of UI and shortcuts, Plasma is very close. If you sit a Windows poweruser in front of Plasma, I'm quite confident they will feel right at home.
That's actually how I got introduced to Linux. Then I discovered the Settings app. Fast forward: EndeavourOS btw.
I don't think any Operating System is
(dumb)user friendlyyet.Hi there, I use nearly all the stuff you do and I am on Linux for like 2-3 years now.
I use PopOS. PopOS is a distro with a user interface that differs a bit from windows. But you will get used to it, its not like on Linux "up" is "down".
PopOS has a lot of programs preinstalled, that help "normal users". This includes drivers for Nvidia-GPUs and Flatpak which is a way to install software on all Linux-Systems opposed to the normal package managers, distros ship with, Flarpak e.g. has Spotify and Discord. But other distros might ship it too and you can definitely install it later on.
What you should definitely learn to use is the software-center (or App store or whatever some distros call it). This is a central place, where most software can be found and installed. Also all software installed through it can be updated here. So it's in a way like steam for all the non-games.
I currently use (natively, so no web app or smth):
Spotify
Steam
Discord
Libreoffice (instead of MS Office)
Gimp
Brave (as backup browser to test if it's Firefox' fault)
Libreoffice is enough for day to day usage, if you are no power user with VBA-Scripts or mayor macros.
Games work mostly well, but as others have said, look at ProtonDB to check your specific Steam-Games. I mostly play single player titles or PvE stuff without the need for anticheat. Nearly all those titles work.
If a game is not on steam, you can check lutris. Lutris has install scripts for a lot of Battle.net games as well as GoG among others. There is also the heroic games launcher, but you don't need to know all that yet.
PS: The great thing about Lemmy is that you don't have to ask your friend, you can ask here.
PPS: If you plan to game on your PC, may I suggest some games? (All work well for me, of course)
Dwarf fortress - is a city builder/sims-like game, on steam for money or on the official website for free, but with less art.
Core Keeper - a small Indy game about digging, crafting and fighting
Deep Rock Galactic - a first person shooter with mining and fighting bugs
Factorio -
anTHE automation gameDisco Elysium - probably the best RPG/Detective game ever
The Long journey home - a space exploration rogue-like
Oh wonderful! Thank you for the suggestions!
Firefox follows web standards the most, but because most people use Chromium-based browsers web developers make websites for Chrome instead for the web.
I do know that, that's why I use FF.
But the sentence would be a lot longer if O wrote something along the lines of "To try if the website doesn't adhere to the official web standards instead of googles own, which brave uses, since it (like most browsers nowadays) is built on top of chromium unlike Firefox, which uses the gecko engine to render websites."
Mint should be pretty easy to get used to, solid choice IMO, as for the programs
If you're fine with libreoffice, no problems
Don't know.
No problems
Not sure if there's a flatpak, U might need to add a PPA, but it's just a one time copy/paste a few commands.
Works fine, but some games might not run or require some tinkering, check games u play on protondb.com
It's a bit annoying because they require u to have the latest version all the time, it won't auto update, and the package might take a while to update, so u either download and update manually every time (it will be a different install than the flatpak package) or use the web version, peraonally i just run a script to download and extract the
tar.gzversion when there's an update.brave has flatpack , and you don't really have to do all that to update discord just go to software store and click update?
I don't use flatpak but i assume there's a delay between discord and flatpak updates, or even if there is no delay
This would update everything, right? That's usually not what i want when i'm opening discord.
I've had no problems with the Discord flatpak and updates. I use a KDE variant of UBlue and the package manager prompts me to update all flatpaks when I start the computer (whenever there are updates available), which I do with one click.
For a new user, i would think that individually managing package updates is probably not a desired workflow.
even if there is delay discord won't force you to update until there is update in flat pack, and no software store won't update everything you can update whatever you want, and you don't even have to use flat pack version to update with software store. most distros allow you to update apps installed through package manager too
There are also 3rd party interfaces which are basically web client wrappers that add some features.
Could you share that script with op?
Sure
Edit:
DIRNAMEis just to find the script location and download/extract there, in case u call the script from somewhere elseDon't use an immutable distro like endless or silverblue. It's a whole new paradigm to learn (in addition to learning Linux basics). You should get your feet wet with something more user-friendly first.
My big recommendation is Ubuntu. Normal ubuntu. Not one of the flavors or derivatives. It's got everything you need, plus very easy to troubleshoot if something goes wrong. Try to avoid using the command line when following guides online, there is nothing on Ubuntu you actually need it for and the graphical tools are very good.
Don't listen to the complaining about snaps. You won't notice them, they won't affect you negatively, they are designed to just set and forget. The complaints come from a highly particular and technical subset of the Linux community.
If you really don't like the look of Ubuntu, then I'd second all the recommendations for Mint. Those two distros have the most number of non-technical users in their communities because they are both very user-friendly and well-tested. I'd recommend against trying anything else until you've gotten comfortable with Ubuntu or Mint.
It kinda depends a bit on the user's background... For someone who is used to windows and how computers in general works, I would probably agree with you.
But for people who are more phone/tablet native, I don't think something like Fedora Silverblue is actually that bad of a choice. It comes natively with Gnome 3, which isn't too dissimilar to Android or iOS. Updates are installed in one fell swoop with a reboot, just like Android or iOS. Flatpaks behave much more like an App on Android or iOS, they are self contained, and don't affect eachother.
I just set up my daughters (9 y/o) first school laptop, and picked Fedora Silverblue, and apart from learning about the save icon, and learning how to store files in a filesystem, she was pretty much instantaneously functional, having most of her prior computing experience on an Android phone.
The "phone-native" theoretical new user may become more of a real thing in the future too. When GNOME and Pantheon started developing in that direction I thought they were chasing ghosts, but now it turns out they may have just been a decade ahead of their time.
Unfortunately the snap argument may have merit after all. Some companies have dropped support for it and are all in on flatpak. I've run into several cases where something was available on flathub but not the snap store. And considering gnome, kde, and most new devs are all in on flatpak, someone would be really missing out on some great apps that make life easier if they only had snaps.
Not only that but Ubuntu has really diverged in other areas as well they may only show up later like choosing LXD over podman. People should just get an experience that is closest to SteamOS for maximum compatibility and support atp. Putting someone on Ubuntu I think is like orphaning them.
I don't think the snap argument is without merit, I just think it's an argument only had by a very technical subset of users. I think your comment illustrates that.
I don't agree that anybody would be left "orphaned" on Ubuntu. LXD vs Podman is again a very technical question for a specific subset of users.
I also don't agree that SteamOS is the goal for compatibility and support. Compatibility is best with Ubuntu, it's the most widely deployed and used desktop distribution by far. Most other desktop distros are a rounding error when compared to Ubuntu user-wise.
I've also personally had a buggy experience with SteamOS. I wouldn't use it as a desktop in its current state, but I'm aware some folks do just that.
For someone new to Linux who just needs to get on with their desktop work, Ubuntu is the best distro there is (flawed as it may be). Mint is also a good choice for the same reasons.
What do you typically use your computer for? That’s going to have a major impact. If it’s pretty basic stuff (web browsing, text editing, etc) you shouldn’t have any issue. If it’s something that’s more complicated or unusual, then sometimes it’s easy to do and sometimes not, depending on what you want to do. In general, a little bit of comfort searching the web and working in the command line helps a lot with troubleshooting Linux
A test could be to start by using Libre software on Windows.
Switch to LibbreOffice or some other alternative instead of Word. Gimp, Inkscape, and Krita for graphical stuff. Whatever proprietary software you use, check if it exists for Linux; if not, see if you can find an alternative you're happy with.
For the people I know, Word is the biggest deal breaker.
There's one case when you can't avoid using command line. If you ask someone on Internet to help you, he will say you to type some commands. No window clicking, no screenshots will help. All GUIs are different, but CLI is (almost) always the same, and its output is well searchable. That's why you see numerous command line listings in each topic discussing problems and could decide it's impossible to use Linux without coding.
I think user friendly distros (like Mint) are very user friendly if you're just doing simple things like web browsing or using Steam. Mint (and other distros) have a realy nice software centre that can install a lot of software with a single click from https://flathub.org/ , which removes a lot of headaches that there used to be with installing software.
However, when things go wrong (which they do sometimes because computers are complicated), you may have to troubleshoot and play around with the command line.
... But that's honestly happened a lot with Windows in my experience as well. Only with less command line and more running esoteric exes.
Honestly, given that most Linux distros are free anyway, you may as well try it out and see if everything works. Worst comes to worst, you find something doesn't work and end up installing Windows over the top of it.
Yea it is user friendly. If you're using your computer once a week presumably its for things like web browsing or working with documents - these are very easy and straight forward to do in linux.
The other big benefit is the cost - linux is free and you'll save £120 on a basic version of Windows which can be used to get get a better PC or just saved.
Add to that no advertising, much more private and entirely yours to do what you like with. And if you don't like it you can easily install Windows instead, so its zero risk to try Linux.
Linux vs. Windows doesn't generally affect the cost unless you're building the machine yourself, or buying from a Linux specific vendor like Framework (which are generally more expensive than what you'll find at Best Buy anyways). The major PC manufacturers are going to have Windows pre-installed whether you want it or not.
Really, you already use gimp, but not linux?
It's what I got to use in highschool computer class, I'm a sucker for what I know.
Linux Mint w/ Cinnamon is a pretty painless transition.
I've been on Linux for 20+ years now and it's not as effortless as Windows or Mac, but it is definitely easy now.
So many things have improved with Linux desktop it's crazy.
My dad is a complete tech noob. I took his laptop, installed Ubuntu, configured everything and showed him where he could find the applications he uses. Done.
I bet the others already gave a lot of good advice, but there is one thing I wand to emphasize. The way in which you install software matters more on Linux than on any other operating system. You are meant to install it through your distros package manager, which you will most likely use through the software management GUI of your distro. Do not download any executables from websites directly, unless you are absolutely sure that:
Sometimes you might need to add additional repositories to your package manager, the same rules apply there. You might also run into things called Flatpaks and Snaps, these are universal package formats and another great option for installing software. Flatpaks work out of the box in a lot of distros. Number one rule there is to stick to things that are marked as verified, unless you have a good reason to trust them. These universal formats might be integrated in the GUI software manager too, this varies across distros.
If you follow those rules and keep your system updated, I don't expect you will have much trouble with Linux.
Everyone is saying yes.
They are wrong.
You will absolutely have to troubleshoot in order to figure out how to do what you want to do.
Linux is different than windows or macos and you’re gonna have to gain an understanding (however dumbed down you might describe it) of those differences in order to use the computer.
If you can get over that hump of understanding then I think you’ll be fine.
I've got to agree with this. I love Linux and have run it on my servers for years. That said, I've got Mint on my laptop and tried to print an image over wifi at a friend's place and could not for the life of me get it to print properly.
For the most part things do just work, but there are a lot more "obscure" scenarios that are handled correctly in windows but not Linux.
I also find that when things go wrong on Linux, they are harder to fix. I've had several times I've had to deal with circular dependency hell to get something to install properly. I did eventually get those problems resolved, but it was often a single person having a tangential problem that hinted me to how to solve it.
Edit: I think if your usage patterns are straight forward enough, it is by far and away the better choice. If you do the same stuff all the time, it'll pretty much never break, which is not something I could say about windows. So for OP, it sounds like it would be a good fit.
I consider myself a reasonably tech literate user and tried to set up dual boot on my pc using a whole separate ssd just for Linux to be safe. Installing it went fine but GRUB wouldn't let me boot into windows, somehow the instalation nuked my windows boot partition and no amount of repairing would work, I had to completely reinstall Windows and now I'm seriously worried of trying Linux again.
That sucks. I’ve done that a lot of times by either not understanding what I was doing or fat fingering some decision.
If you do decide to try again, tag me and I’ll set up a vm environment similar to yours and walk you through any confusing steps.
The sad truth. Enough said. Linux is still not there, as much as we'd like to pretend it is. And it's especially not there for dumb users.
Dumb user here. I completely disagree with this.
I was using Ubuntu for a few years, now I'm on Fedora. I don't really know how to do anything. For my needs it's just very easy.
Maybe my needs just aren't sophisticated enough for me to encounter all those problems I'm supposed to be having. But I've been using it for years and my experience is that it really just works.
While there's a little bit of getting acclimated to slightly different programs for the same tasks, I kind of imagine sophisticated needs primarily comes down to hardware. A company making some sort of computer hardware doohickey might design and test and provide support for something with Windows/Mac in mind, and maybe for other operating systems they're not cooperative with documenting support, under the mindset that it would reveal trade secrets or decrease shareholder value in some other way. Linux support then comes from other means like reverse engineering. This could mean that it will take time before all the kinks are ironed out, or if the product was short-lived the linux community might not care enough to have someone volunteer to keep up with support. Common, time-tested hardware will have good support. Plugging in some old printer that was discontinued shortly after launch will be more of a crapshoot.
Yeah. I've double checked that my last few laptops worked well with Linux before buying them. But I don't buy very flashy technology, so it was never really any question.
My printer is from Brother, and it's just plug and play. At work it's all web print and has been since I started working for pay, really.
I'm just speculating on reasons behind why people might feel it's still not user-friendly. It was a pretty easy transition for me too, and that was years ago.
Yeah, I think you're right, and I think that's exactly why it's a blind spot for me.
On several occasions I've also lent an old laptop to friends when theirs broke, and all of them ended up using Linux for months no questions asked. They later went back to Windows because of the Word grammar check, but other than that it just worked for them.
But of course, if you can't get your drivers to work it'll be a completely different experience.
Another dumb user here Been using Arch for a year now, things just works without much tinkering...... mostly
If you're ok Arch I guess it at least signals a willingness to learn! I would never dare to go there haha.
So you are saying that dumbs can't read? Because hey, that is all it takes to troubleshoot a problem on linux.
Thus, even your grandmother can "do google" nowadays.
Dude, your wrong. Not what OP was asking about.
Desktop light usage only. DFQOH and don't come back.
I can't work out what this an acronym for. Please help!
If you really are so hopeless with computers that you can't figure out a modern popular Linux distribution, then you should not build your own computer, because that's much more complicated.
I think the issue is trying to figure it out. I can build computers all day long but just about anything I want to do in Linux requires a browser and a search engine.
You're also comparing hardware vs. software for your thoughtful dig of the OP, which are very different.
They are comparing the level of knowledge required to do them.
Which are about as related as the knowledge required to mount drywall and the knowledge required to run a ham radio station. You tell me which is more complicated but either way there are most certainly radio amateurs out there that don't know the first thing about handywork and handymen that could barely find the on-off switch on a broadcast-rig.
Okay but if I told you Linux was as easy as watching a YouTube video showing how to hang dry wall, then you might rightfully say "this isnt so bad".
Absolutely. Anything can be learned and unless things build on top of each other you can't really compare difficulties.
There are linux distros with installers that are windows style, and have a display manager that mimics it as well. Would that count as building on top of existing knowledge? I actually never used something like Mint but if people are putting it on their grandparents computers without issue there gotta be something there.
Point being that OP must've installed Windows before and therefore should be able to build a computer hardware-wise?
Yes installing windows is about as difficult as building a pc. Building computers is not hard unless you refuse to use a part picker site or a prebuilt parts list. Even then, the dude at micro center will pick your parts for you.
Building a pc is just pushing parts in and plugging cables in, not rocket science. Video guides are a thing.
I had a friend who was about as computer illiterate as they come, they had a crappy gateway laptop(netbook maybe) that had kubuntu on it they preferred it to when they had win vista(yes this was forever ago, i replaced vista with kubuntu because it was lighter than gnome at the time) they loved the kde interface and most of what they did was Myspace Tumblr and Facebook, but even they managed to figure out play on Linux and wine after a few months
Ubuntu is much less user hostile than windows. My parents only used Ubuntu for the past several years because they inherited my old laptop. They just want to Google stuff, so all they need is a familiar browser.
Oh for the love of Linus, block all notifications requests from websites at the browser level. Comon people accept all notifications requests and get inundated by them.
It's an interesting angle, the hostility thing. People in the know have largely fallen out of love with Ubuntu but imho that's not necessarily because Ubuntu fell in quality but just because so many "better" things have come up since Ubuntu 04.10. It is definitely a sound choice for non-techy people, maybe more than ever. Personally I'd prefer (almost) any contemporary desktop over Gnome these days, but I can definitely see the appeal for others in terms of simple design language.
Basically you can turn any old laptop into a Chromebook these days using Linux, and most people just like your parents most definitely do not need more than a functional webbrowser. Basically a smartphone with a larger screen and physical keyboard. Even if you don't care about your privacy (or freedom from notification-spam) why still pay the Microsoft-tax.
Vanilla GNOME make brain feel good. Ubuntu GNOME make brain feel bad
The reason I still choose Ubuntu, or sometimes Mate, specially for other people is because I know it's highly likely to just work on any laptop I throw it into. Most people don't care one single bit about the downsides of Ubuntu.
What downsides though right? "We" object to Ubuntu over matters like Canonical being a for-profit company or their choice of Desktop Environment. At the end of the day, who cares? If it works it works, right?
The downsides you would only read on Linux communities. My mother couldn't even begin to understand what snap is about.
Yes. Linux Mint works "straight out of the box".
It comes with a preinstalled browser (Firefox), so if you only use your computer for online stuff, then you dont need to do anything at all. Just use it.
The only technical thing you might want to do is to enter the WiFi password and find the software manager to install any additional apps you need.If you can install apps on your phone, then you can also install apps on Linux Mint.
I actually found that it was a lot easier to install Mint than setting up a new Windows pc. The most difficult part was using a windows pc to download it and making a bootable USB stick. Your friend can help you with that or you can follow a guide.
I have had zero issues and I have never written a single command line. It just works.
I setup and use Linux on my home PC for the last 12 years, as a non IT person. I don't use the command line or any IT tools. It has to be user friendly. 99.9% of the time, me, and many others, enjoy a very good, modern experience. I'm happy with the Linux apps for home use. Installation, partitioning, app store and updates are all graphical. There might be the occasional glitch. Where you need online help. Ignore those who say the command line is the only way to solve it. They know nothing about GUI solutions. Nearly all issues are solvable. If you are unlucky, at worst, a reinstall is quick, and GUI based. Your learning can be confined to discovering the easy tools and GUI alternatives. I find Kubuntu good, because it allows me to solve things due to its flexibility.
Mint is pretty dumbass proof.
Yes. If you want something easy, look at:
Never heard of Spiral, and I've heard of a lot of distros, so I'd steer clear of projects like it, that are new and/or niche, as there will be lower reliability and support available. Aurora is also pretty new, but it (and Fedora Atomic, and uBlue in general) has a strong community, so I'm more likely to trust them.
PopOS and Linux Mint get a thumbs up from me.
Spiral is to Debian as Endeavor is to Arch. It's a painless way to get Debian (bookworm) set up.
Yes. Linux has become more user-friendly than Windows. Things stay were they are so it is reliable. It doesn't serve ads nor spies on the user so it is ethical. When updating one sees exactly what happens, and one can have perfect manual control of updates if one wants to. That and so much more.
Sidenote, perhaps consider using Vivaldi browser as it is superior for now, pre Manifest V3. However, if one wants to keep using uBlock Origin indefinitely regardless of the Manifest V3 transition, use LibreWolf which ships with uBlock Origin by default.
Over the years I went from Linux Mint to Xubuntu to EndeavourOS, and from desktop environment Xfce to KDE Plasma. To beginners who absolutely want the least amount of updates and don't mind older software versions I'd suggest a Debian based distribution, and to everyone else I'd suggest an Arch-based distribution, specifically EndeavourOS, or Manjaro if one cannot install the former for some reason, but both are fine. Why? I like to update as soon as possible and to have access to most software without it being a hassle to install. Moreover, Arch has a ridiculously comprehensive wiki which most of the time has the answer to one's problem.
KDE Plasma over Xfce because it's a remarkably configurable feature-rich powerhouse, but I honestly feel bad and wish I could merge them both. If old machines feel too slow for the former, the choice would be Xfce in a heartbeat because it is fast, minimalistic, and also highly configurable.
I moved away from the aforementioned Debian/Ubuntu based distributions because Mint was too bloated and slow for my taste. Specifically, as a former gamer I am highly sensitive to the responsiveness of the cursor, therefore the move to Xubuntu with Xfce where the mouse movement felt snappy again. Unfortunately Snap packages came to both which caused more problems than it solved, so I moved to Arch-based distributions and never looked back.
TL;DR: if new computers did not come with Windows pre-installed—the absurdity of this monopoly remains mind blowing—Linux would be significantly more pleasant to use for most of the populace. I bet my life on that.
Make sure to go for an immutable distro with kde if you're a windows user, you'll never have to do any maintenance, I highly recommend fedora kinoite
I gave this and a few other distros a spin a few weeks ago. Very much liked kinoite.
Most of that sounds pretty easy to pull off. I have a few thoughts, though:
On Fedora AFAIK you can have Spotify app.
I had no idea there was even a native Spotify port for Linux.
It’s on Arch and Debian as well which means it’s on basically every distro
Re: Discord
You can edit a text file to get it to stop checking for updates. IDK if this is viable on Debian but on Fedora it was never more than 1 update behind so I never had an issue in years
I think it's on the Archwiki, but it applies to any Linux
I added an apt repo someone had created. I've checked how it works, and it's just a CI routine pulling the latest Discord package for the website and throwing it in a repo.
That sounds like another good solution!
Well since your building a computer your more tech savvy then most people. I have been using Linux for about 20 years now. If you pick something like Linux Mint or others make sure you have a solid /home partition and migrate to what’s ever distro you like most. It allows you to move around and not lose your data.
Worst case you do some distro hopping for a little bit and then install Windows and there is nothing wrong with that. I have a windows laptop for the very reason that Windows works best with certain apps just like I use a Mac for video editing
Steam ⇒ No Ubuntu
For Word/Excel alternatives, I would suggest LibreOffice fresh. So, go with one that gives recent versions of it ^[I hated the problems with older versions, which seem to be greatly reduced in the newer ones].
That will vary greatly depending upon your Hardware selection. I was lucky enough to manage a good enough setup (adding extra effort to check Motherboard components) for Linux support and still have a few problems. [I am unable to get CPU fan speed (tachometer reading).]
I like Endeavour OS, but it being rolling on Arch, means, it is for someone who is happy with troubleshooting and bug reporting.
I had tried Open SUSE for a bit (back then, I hardy knew Linux) and liked that too.
Debian probably won't work either, because, even though it is something you probably won't need to troubleshoot for years, once setup, Steam will make it hard for you and Discord, well, no idea. I removed it after declining the new TOS.
Why Steam -> no ubuntu? EDIT: Ah, i see. I didnt have that problem because i always used pop os
Maybe this article would be a good indicator.
By default, Ubuntu will give the Snap version, which Steam devs don't like to support.
And installing another version will probably require some configuration and terminal stuff, so I'd suggest going with something that plays well with Valve.
This is true. And it's also why I always recommend downloading steam through their website. They distribute their own Deb directly, and it auto updates.
Flatpak version is also okay but if you want to use a secondary disk then you need to know how to use portals (or the Flatpak configuration tool that I can't remember the name of).
Flatseal is the tool.
(Another benefit to using the flatpak version of Steam is that Steam leaks rather substantial chunks of /dev/shm memory. The flatpak automatically cleans that up. God knows why Valve hasn't fixed this yet.)
No more tricky than windows these days. Nice thing is there's a lack of commercial BS - spyware, ads, unwanted apps etc. And pretty much no matter how old your computer gets, you can still run brand new linux on it.
Depends on the distribution. And how used you are to windows.
Imo, for the easiest possible experience, choose fedora and use it sorta like desktop android.
In depends on how dumb the user is. If you want to see drive
C:\and don't want to learn why there's no such a thing, forget about Linux (and any other OS except the only one you are familiar with). If you are ready to learn new concepts and just don't want to remember numerous commands, that's OK, just pick up a distro with advanced DE and graphical admin tools.Depends on the distro.
I found Linux Mint good enough for 99% of things, and most problems can be solved without a terminal.
Problem is you’d still need to know enough about Linux (just like with windows) to troubleshoot. For example, the files app was causing an error when plugging in drives, I need to figure out that the files app wasn’t call files, but nemo, it’s config lived in a hidden folder called .config in my home folder, and in .config I could delete my configuration to fix my issue.
In my view Linux is about Windows XP or 7 in terms of usability, a bit of a learning curve, but one worth learning.
A few modern improvements which makes using Linux easier.
Use Flatpaks where possible, it’s platform agnostic and usually supported by the actual devs.
AppImages (think portable exe for windows), are another option, but to “install” them you’d need an app called Gear Lever.
Check with an apps developer before installing, flatpaks can be packaged by anyone, and they might loose support (steam for example is installable via Deb not flatpak).
The only barrier to entry is creating a usb installer. Once you’re past that, there’s nothing more than basic computer knowledge to do what you need to do. By basic, I mean knowing how to use a computer, so you should be good. Just choose a user friendly distro like Mint and you won’t need to open the terminal at all unless something really bad happens.
In the last four years I've built three gaming PCs and installed Linux on two and Windows on one.
If you can install Windows on a PC, you can install Linux on a PC. The process of getting the ISO, writing it to a thumb drive, using the BIOS to boot to the thumb drive is the same. The Windows installer is kind of its own environment, but most Linux distros will boot to a "Live environment" that gives you a full desktop you can try out and use before installing, and the installer runs like any other program. Some automatically launch it, some give you an icon to click on the desktop. The installer will ask you the same basic things, though Windows asks you more stuff about their proprietary garbage.
The last time I installed Windows, (Win 10 about a year, year and a half ago) it started up with a fallback video driver and 800x600 resolution, and I had to use Edge to download the GPU driver from AMD's website. I've never had to do that on Linux; AMD drivers are supported directly by the Linux kernel and work out of the box.
I have an unusual speaker system that makes a loud popping sound when the sound chip in the computer turns on and off, so I have to disable a power saving feature by putting a line in a config file. That line I copied and pasted from a forum. It's entirely because I have this weird old sound system of mine; the vast majority of folks won't have to do that.
I'll note that I also choose hardware specifically for Linux compatibility. I use AMD GPUs, I make sure to use Intel wireless chips, I have desktop peripherals that don't require those goofy dashboard apps to configure. Generally go with as normal as you can.
If you're coming from Windows, I would suggest trying the Cinnamon or KDE desktops, in the look and feel department they're probably going to be closer to what you're used to with robust graphical tools.
Standard disclaimer: Linux is not Windows. You will have some learning and adjusting to do as you get used to a new ecosystem. I don't think Windows or Linux are free of "troubleshooting." Stuff goes wrong on Windows too. Thing is, with Linux you can...learn how to fix it?
Depends what you use and how you use it. With how I use my computer, I have issues on Windows that require terminal input to solve and are more confusing than many of the Linux issues I face, but the way I use Linux also requires terminal. Some applications just work better or only on terminal whether you're on Windows or Linux and some debugging steps will inevitably take you down the dark road of decade old menus and terminal commands.
Day to day basic tasks though? It shouldn't need any special knowledge, provided that you don't follow the wrong online tutorials like I did when starting out. For example, Firefox was out of date so I looked up how to update Firefox. The package manager did not have a new version and I didn't think to manually go into settings and refresh the repository (stores auto update, right? Well, no actually...). Basically I ended up trying to install via a .deb package from their website... it didn't work and I felt Linux was dumb. What I should have done was update my OS and package manager first or simply
sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade(yes this is terminal, sorry). My point is, sometimes you have to realise the question you are asking is flawed and not the system.I guess uBlues main images are. I use Fedora Atomic Kinoite, which is not ready at all.
You can try Linux out without installing it to get a feel for it before you make the jump. Set a weekend aside (or at least a couple of hours) to test drive a Linux distro and check if it is your cup of tea.
This is one way of doing this:
I know that these instructions can seem daunting but it is easier than it reads, I promise.
Why Aurora OS
Aurora OS is based on Fedora Silverblue meaning that it is what is known as a immutable distro. That in turn means that it's harder to mess stuff up and break your install. It also means that some things are harder to achieve. But I also think that you are probably not interested in the hard stuff anyway.
Aurora uses the KDE Plasma Desktop, the same desktop used by Valve on the Steamdeck. It has a familiar Windows like layout by default but also allows you to customise it like crazy to fit your particular need (whatever that may be).
Aurora flatpak as it's app format. To see what kind of software is available for this distro you can check flathub.org . It's not going to be as much software as Linux Mint for example (Mint uses flatpak and deb), but everything the average user needs should be there.
Great write up, but OP stated they’re not computer savvy. I’m sure more ppl have used flash drives than used VMs. They are also building a new pc so gotta get those distros from somewhere/another machine.
Another option would be to grab a couple of 4GB or more flash drives and try each one by booting from the flash drive before committing to one.
I considered that. Unfortunately silverblue doesn't do live systems and aurora therefore doesn't either. So a VM is the only way of trying it out. OP stated that they have someone to help with the actual installation so I left the whole create install medium for bare metal install out intentionally since I assume this person will be capable of helping with that.
Also small Markdown help: If you use dashes lemmy will automatically format bulletpoints correctly. You can't use •s for it. Doesn't take anything away from your comment, etcher is still the best tool to create a bootable usb drive, but for the future consider using dashes.
Ooh, interesting! Thanks for sharing! TIL 🤓
I mean, yes. But also no, it sort of depends.
If you have very low bar of needs (needing a web browser and some utility apps, without specific apps in mind) then it's actually never been easier. If you use a Silverblue based system, all updates are done in a transactional way and old versions can be booted into at any time in case something breaks (which basically never happens with silverblue, with some exceptions.) Read only systems means you can't muck around with the root files and can't accidentally "break" your system in the way you used to be able to on older OS designs. I would say that "Linux with Guardrails" is effectively invincible, and I would like to recommend that new users try OSTree based systems. For example, Fedora Silverblue, Ublue's Aurora / Bluefin, Bazzite (Steam OS clone), etc etc.
If you have more specific needs, it can be a crapshoot depending on whether or not the hobby in question has a strong linux presence. Particularly, bespoke non-game windows apps are still a bit tricky to get working and require some Wine (Windows process wrapper for compatibility) knowledge. There are edge cases where running certain applications in flatpak (Steam, Bitwig) can mean that, while it's impossible for these applications to break your system, you'll be very limited in options for these programs. For Steam, this can mean more difficulty with out-of-steam application management. For Bitwig, this can mean no choice in VST. These are all programs that have work arounds, but on a read-only system like Silverblue (which I would like to recommend for new users due to the indestructibility) those are all a little more difficult to implement and require you to know a thing or two about virtual desktops. (Thus, not new user friendly.)
I would still say that it's never been easier, but as you get more famililar with any system, you generally demand more and more from it. Thankfully, with linux, its always been a case of "if there's a will there's a way" and the UX utility applications being made by other people have been getting better and better.
My recommendation to you would be to try UBlue Aurora. It's familiar to Windows, it's being managed in a way that makes gaming relatively simple, and it has an active discord community to help new users. It also has that indestructability that I was talking about before, but has a lot of the "work arounds" pre-setup for new users.
Stop. You're overcomplicating what OP asked for, and putting your own spin on a suggestion with your own opinions. Stop.
Having your own spin is entirely the point of a discussion board lol
It could be a bumpy road, but go for it. Remember that no matter what happens, someone else has probably been there before and has asked for help online
Linux Mint LMDE is always my recommendation to friends & fam who are leaving Win & Mac environments. LMDE bc ease of use/install & stability.
Slight learning curve, but that goes with anything new to a person when it comes to tech. Linux Mint forums are also legit for quick answers.
Good luck regardless of what you choose! Don’t let the negative feedback get you down! 🍀
-sent from an old MacBook running LMDE
I've been curious about LMDE, I use the Xfce version of regular Mint, but am comfortable in Debian (at least, server Debian). How does LMDE compare?
They’re both great starters, imo! Xfce or LMDE is a solid choice for Linux beginners.
Xfce was a little too minimal for me & iirc it’s canonical-based. I chose lmde specifically bc I prefer Debian. I can’t recall if I had any major issues setting up either of them. I think it also just comes down to visual/aesthetic preferences. They’re both highly customizable so either way you’re good!
I’m gonna set up xfce for my dad on an old Dell desktop & i’m sure he’ll appreciate how close it is to windows right out of the box. 📦
I specifically like Xfce or LxQt, because I generally run older hardware; I suppose my biggest question is how easily I could use either (not overly picky about which). I'm not sure which desktop environment LMDE defaults to, but both Gnome and KDE are deal-breakers for me, unless it's easily changeable.
I don't have that problem on my actual Debian machines, because they're headless anyways, there is no desktop environment at all
Ooh, I gotcha! LMDE doesn’t default to gnome or kde. LMDE installs w cinnamon.
Not sure I’ve seen much of lxqt. Will def give that a once over our if curiosity!
LxQt is nice, it is barebones like Xfce, but built on the Qt framework like KDE. Xfce uses GTK, like GNOME.
There's kind of a bell curve of users where their needs are so simple that Linux use is great for them. They'll never do anything more complex than visit a webpage in Firefox, and that's great.
Then as your needs get more and more complex, Linux isn't quite a good fit -- You'll want to use a specific printer, or a specific software (looking at you solidworks!), or you'll have some sort of organization that requires you use MS Office, etc. -- There are ways around all of that stuff, but if you're not already on the train, it can get frustrating.
Up until your needs get even more complex, where Linux starts becoming the best choice again - You want a tiling window manager, and ipv6 with firewall and ZFS on the network etc.
It's the middle bell curve where your new user is already kind-of a power user, but not quite a technical-user yet that gets people.
Honestly if you figured out lemmy you can figure out linux at least enough not to be a 95yo about it.
Use a distro that is both popular and good for beginners, like Fedora or it's KDE spin, or Mint. There will be learning, there probably will be troubleshooting, you're switching from something you've always been familiar with to a new thing, it is unavoidable. It's like moving to Mexico, you'll need to pick up at least a little Spanish. It's really not as hard as people make it seem, most questions will be solved by searching the problem and pasting in a terminal command, but it's good to learn what those commands do over time. It might benefit you to use the computer more often while learning if possible.
Do it, you'll be fine!
I would say dual boot so you can use windows when you can't figure something out
Or run Windows in a VM if you need it.
You haven't tried ,have you it is real slow like real slow.
No I haven't. some version of Linux has been my only OS since the early 2000s. You would think that it would be in Microsoft's interest to make it run well in VMs. Still, I guess it's just another reason that Windows is crapware.
That and running games in a VM has been known to get you the banhammer for multiplayer.
Yes, it's easy. BUT:
Sometimes, when dual booting Windows and Linux, especially on the same drive, the Windows installation just breaks. Sends you to automatic repair only for it to not work.
I learned this the hard way.
To me, Endless OS seems to be the best fit for you; install it once and you never ever have to give it a second glance for troubleshooting or whatsoever. It achieves this through using "a read-only root file system managed by OSTree with apps installed using Flatpak.". This translates to:
You should be fine doing what you want on Linux. Just make sure everything works before installing completely. There is a liveUSB mode that let's you try it before you install.
Mint and PoP os are good ones to try.
Can also check out Zorin os which is pretty good too but doesn't update as often.
If you decide yes, I highly recommend Fedora Silverblue, or any of the distros based on silverblue/ublue. I myself love Bazzite for gaming.
Those are atomic and immutable, meaning you cannot easily break core files, and every single thing can be updated in the app store. It's the windows equivalent of not being able to modify/delete C:\Windows; and getting firmware, drivers, applications, and Windows updates all in one click using the Microsoft Store.
I find that people who come from the old days of linux will often respond "you have to use terminal", or "learn the operating system", or even balk at people saying you can just use the GUI Interface/Desktop Environments. And then when you get help from expirienced users you get allot of terminal commands, which makes people think "I can't use Linux without learning the terminal first". In actuality it is just easier to show a person a command and ask for the results than it is to walk a person through getting the same info otherwise.
"OK, which Desktop Environment are you using?".
"Desktop what?".
"Which version of OS did you download and install?".
"Cinnamon.".
"X or Wayland?".
"What's a Wayland?".
"OK, X. Is your system up to date and which kernel are you running?".
...and so on. It is faster to just help working in the terminal. The Desktop Environments are fairly far along and most that I have worked with you could get by completely in the Desktop and not touch the terminal.
I would suggest Linux Mint, but for now I would stick to the non latest version of 21.3 as they bit off ALLOT in 22 and while it works for allot of people there are driver bugs they inherited from Ubuntu and have not implemented the fix for yet and allot of other pains in the toukus so if you want a version with the minimum of troubleshooting and stable Desktop Environments I would stick to 21.3 (If I had any sense I would be switching back to it from 22 myself).
If you want another option it would be Ubuntu and its Different Desktop 'Spins' to see which you like the most. Some people prefer to start off on Fedora and I am told it has a good DE, or some people recommend PopOS which had its own spin on a DE but they have let development lag on it as they developed their Cosmic Desktop for the Wayland project (the project that is superseding the X.org project for making windows).
Which ever you choose, good luck. I am in the same boat and I am trying to learn what I can before it is too late.
If the PC you're building has the latest and greatest hardware in it, you might find that Linux might not support that stuff yet. You might get lucky, but you might not either. It usually takes a little while to get new hardware supported. So it might be a better idea to install Linux on your older computer, then there's no reason to buy a new PC anyway. Linux uses about half the RAM that Windows uses, for example, so it's like you did an upgrade anyway. As long as you have over 4 GB of RAM, you're fine for desktop usage. Windows requires 8 to run as well that Linux does at 4. You'd only need to upgrade if you're after extreme gaming support.
It depends! You'll get a lot of recommendations. And they're probably good recommendations. But there are most certainly Distros out there that are very simple. I would suggest you don't be afraid to Distro Hop until you find one that you really feel at home on.
If you're looking for something that's simple, out of the box, and out of your way, I'd avoid anything Arch based. Ubuntu or Debian based Distros will have the most documentation and therefore minimize the amount of time you spend looking for answers, however, Fedora based Distros, in my experience, are rock solid and sit comfortably between stable and the bleeding edge.
Most operating systems these days are just micro-kernels to run the actual operating system, your browser. Most users will be perfectly happy using whatever in most cases as long as you can get one of the major browsers on it.
If they have special requirements, then you need to figure them out first.
If you mean "dumb friendly" by "An exact Windows clone"... there are plenty of "Windowslike" Linux distros out there.
If you mean "user friendly" by "Easy to understand by any user"... then yes, (any) Linux distro is user friendly as is.
I will recommend you Fedora Budgie Edition. You will never need to open terminal on it and interface is more user friendly.
You can absolutely get by by, and have a great experience with GNOME + the app store.
Its a reason its default on so many distros.
Simple Answer: No
The moment you need to think about what distribution you need to choose from is where it'll stop any (dumb)user. Most people want a simple process with very little thinking.
If you are interested in learning linux and willing to take the time to understand the entire process that comes with it then yes.
I wonder how these people function in a supermarket
Simply put, I need to buy groceries.
It's not that I will have issues learning or researching, it is that I don't have the time too.
If the barrier to using Linux is needing to spend time troubleshooting and researching to do simple tasks, I just won't.
So far this thread has been very enlightening to me, I'm excited to try something new. But my OS is not my hobby.
There's certainly a learning curve as it's a completely different OS. That's going to take time for sure. The problem is that people are so used to Windows or Mac that they forget they had the same learning curve when they started with whichever one they're using.
Those are decisions about things everyone already understands, choosing a distro for a new user is like deciding what your favourite photo is from a blurry, black and white album
It's more like buying a car. Try a few out and settle on the one you like. You can even try them out online at distrosea
Problem is buying a car most of the different brands are quite different, there are so many distros that are just Ubuntu underneath that are basically identical with a different desktop
People learn how to do that while growing up. The same doesn't apply to software, people usually choose what they know.
It's the same process as choosing which loaf of bread you like, or which car. You try a few out and decide which one you like. It's not hard.
No, it absolutely is hard, and those are bad comparisons. Growing up you interact with bread and cars, and you build a preference based on what you're taught and what you experience. If I go into a new store and see a dozen types of bread I've never eaten, I can still make inferences about their taste, texture etc. This is not the case with Linux distributions - if I've never used Linux before, I literally don't know what the hell I'm doing.
And it's absolutely unrealistic to expect your average person to try a few out. They won't be able to decide on technical grounds, and they'll have to use the distribution for some time to build enough experience for a preference. Going back to your car example, it's like suggesting people buy a few cars and decide which one they like (since they don't have the experience to make judgements based on short test drives) - you're asking them to invest a lot of time for something they don't really need or want.
I disagree with you, I happen to think that the average person is intelligent enough to make an informed decision about their computing. They just have to forgo the learned helplessness that Microsoft and Apple have fostered since the early nineties.
I don't think it's unreasonable for someone who is dissatisfied to try a few out. Let's be clear here, if you're satisfied, then you're not going to even think about moving but more and more people are becoming dissatisfied, you can tell by the number of people on Reddit (yes I still lurk Reddit) asking about switching. Also, unless you're really a geek, it isn't going to be close to a technical decision - it will be purely gut-feel. I like this one, I don't like that one.
You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding my point, as I didn't mention the average person's intelligence in any way. All I'm saying is that minimizing the effort required to really try multiple distributions is a terrible way of introducing people to Linux. It will only lead to frustration and rejection. Choosing your bread doesn't require investing dozens of hours.
I actually tried linux (Fedora) this past weekend; I had fewer issues installing and using it as a day to day computer, than I did with Windows. Tried out Gnome and KDE both, preferred gnome but UI scaling (for my shit vision) was simpler out-of-the-box on KDE (about 125-150% was comfortable for me.) I found KDE a bit overwhelmingly customizable to start out with, and maybe a bit bloated.
The caveat to this was Gaming, in my case I did not have a good time with gaming (probably because I am trying to run at 4k and play a game dependant on Ubisoft DRM, as well as an older MMO that doesnt handle high DPI screens and ui scaling). Very frame-y at 4K, a decent amount of tinkering is/was required. YMMV, check ProtonDB as it is heavily dependent on what games you play, and heavily dependent on Steam. If you want to multi-box (without software, just alt-tab through windows) an MMO, I found functionally no information on how to open multiple instances of the same game to do so (which is why I mentioned the dependency on steam, which only seems to let you have one game launched at any given time)
Moving back to windows for gaming felt like a major downgrade as far as general computer work goes. Inside of an hour I had a fully functional, up to date, linux machine. Windows 11 took 1-2 hours to install and update itself, then another hour to install drivers, then longer to de-bloat and start disabling all the stupid shit from Microsoft. I'm sure I'll be doing that continuously for the next few weeks.
I've said this kind of thing before; Gnome feels like it's trying to appeal to Apple users, "Look how simple it is, look how few settings menus there are, you use it the way we designed it to be used and only that way, nothing else works." They like their empty blank windows. The ideal Gnome utility app is a blank window with a single button in the title bar that says "Cancel." Featurelessness is their goal.
KDE always felt like the polar opposite of that to me. Every feature under the sun, sometimes twice. Nothing is consistent, nothing aligns quite right, they love their cluttered windows. The ideal KDE utility app is a window crammed edge to edge with text boxes, drop downs, radio buttons and check boxes that never opens quite big enough for all the elements in it. This one little utility app can do basically everything even remotely related to the task it's made for plus several other adjacent tasks, to the point it takes you a long time to find the one option you ever actually need in a sea of settings menus.
Cinnamon felt somewhere in between. Except where Gnome apps crept in with their hamburger menus and top bar UI, Cinnamon felt consistent and good looking without being an iPhone commercial, and their included utilities tended to have the functionality you needed and nothing you didn't.
I just recently built a PC, and to get the most out of an AMD GPU I'm using Fedora KDE instead of my long time favorite Mint Cinnamon, and I've already had to boot up my old computer once to use a Mint utility because I couldn't seem to get the job done in KDE. You know that USB stick formatter tool in Mint? Why doesn't every OS have that?
Just out of curiosity, how does Fedora KDE get more out of amd than Mint Cinnamon?
I went with Fedora because of newer packages than you generally get in the Debian family lineage.
KDE, especially KDE 6, has a fairly robust implementation of Wayland. Cinnamon is just now rolling out experimental Wayland support. This wasn't an issue on my previous machine with an Nvidia GPU as X11 was the better deal there, but now that I have a Radeon GPU Wayland is the better deal. My two monitors running at different resolutions and refresh rates work. FreeSync works out of the box. There's even the beginnings of HDR support. Having tried both on this machine, Fedora KDE has a lot more features of my hardware that "Just Work."
I much prefer using Cinnamon to KDE, but I'll deal.
If you pick a new user-friendly distro, nine times out of ten it'll run like a dream out of the box.
If you want to change something minor like a desktop background, you might need to search through menus for the settings or ask for advice.
If you want to install new hardware, like swapping in a new video card, you'll definitely need some assistance.
It already was like 10 years ago.
Linux the lifestyle will mean slowly embracing more open or otherwise ethical software. Slowly ween yourself off the Discord, the Spotify, the Microsoft Office, Microsoft Teams, Microsoft LinkedIn, Microsoft npm, Microsoft GitHub.
For some reason we tend to give Steam a pass for convenience & investing as much as it has into the Linux ecosystem (even if it is selfishly & largely to avoid Microsoft lock-in/competition).
It's entirely possible to use, enjoy, and benefit from Linux while also using proprietary software. Your attitude only hurts the reputation and adoption of Linux by perpetuating the notion that you're either all-in or else you're out. Your idea of "Linux the lifestyle" is a fantasy.
Huh. I still use proprietary software too—& I’ll make purchases for copyrighted music. But I have moved away from as much of it as I can when I had the opportunity or convenience to do so. Some proprietary software is basically irreplaceable & not built by megacorporations siphoning our private data. But things like chat apps? Music players? Code forges? There are tons of replacements…
Bro just told me to ween myself off my job and friend group
Your friends should value your privacy too & your job shouldn’t be trusting their secrets to Microsoft either.
I'm downvoting every to comment in this thread because you're doing exactly what I said you'd do in my original comment. 🤦
...?!?!?
Hi! Did you mean to reply to my comment...?
Yes, that is the comment they made earlier and the reason they went on a down vote crusade.