Student dorm does not allow wifi routers
I just moved into a student dorm for a semester abroad, and beforehand I emailed them asking whether they had ethernet ports to plug my router into (I use it to connect all my devices, and for WiVRn VR streaming). They confirmed that I could, but now that I'm here the wifi login portal is asking me to accept these terms from the ISP, which forbid plugging in a router. There's another clause that forbids "Disruptive Devices" entirely, defined as:
“Disruptive Device” means any device that prevents or interferes with our provision of the 4Wireless to other customers (such as a wireless access point such as wireless routers) or any other device used by you in breach of the Acceptable Use Policy;
So what are my options? I don't think I can use this service without accepting the terms, but also I was told by the student dorm support that I could bring a router, which contradicts this.
EDIT: some additional context:
- dorm provider is a company separate from my uni (they have an agreement but that's it)
- ISP (ask4) is totally separate from dorm provider, and have installed a mesh network that requires an account. On account creation, there are many upsells including one for connecting more than one device. The "free" plan only allows me to sign in on a single device, and I can upgrade to two devices for 15 pounds.
- ethernet requires login too
- VR streaming requires a high performance wifi 6 network, which is why I bought this router (Archer C6 from tp-link)
I work in university IT so I have some experience here. Some schools are better than others but in general providing IT services for students is like trying to wrangle a herd of starving feral cats who are all in heat.
First of all I have never seen 802.1x implemented (Ethernet authentication) in the wild that wasn’t almost immediately removed. It’s a shitty protocol that’s terrible to debug. I totally get why they restrict APs … my god if every student had one it would be a pain. It would be like standing in a crowded room with everyone shouting and you’re trying to pick out one conversation 20 ft away.
My guess is you’re basically in a situation like my son was at ECU. It’s likely not really a university dorm but closely affiliated hence the reason of a third party. Or the central university IT is abysmal and can’t be bothered. Either way the only reason to use 802.1X is because they think it’s more secure, when in fact it’s way more trouble than it’s worth. You can do the same thing by controlling downstream routing or MAC filtering. The ECU “dorm” did that and it wasn’t much better honestly. You had to go into a website to add your MAC address to get access to the WiFi. Firstly how do you do that when your computer can’t talk to anything. Chicken and egg problem. Secondly for the ones who figured out how to do that using your phone, good luck getting a history major to figure what even what a MAC address was.
My suggestion is don’t bother. If they’ve implemented 802.1x they’re a micromanaged IT and will catch you eventually. I’d also guess they have completely overtaxed their egress traffic and your speeds are abysmal.
On a related note, when you graduate never ever rent from an apt complex that generously process WiFi or Ethernet. It will almost always suck, they will have no one to provide adequate tech support, and they are just using it as another revenue stream.
Sorry I don’t have better advice but if they control the network there isn’t really much you can do.
I was once responsible for a student house (we don’t have dorms in the US sense, this is the closest we have) and I have similar experiences but less extreme. My favourite was when I had forgotten to configure DHCP filtering and someone plugged in a router the wrong way so it started offering DHCP (that didn’t work) to everyone in the building, in a race with our upstream ISP.
Also, the times rats got into the networking room and ate random cables. I should add the network was built by volunteer students in the ‘90s.
I did this a work one time… sorta the same thing. I installed pfsense VM and left the DHCp server on. I killed the network in our office for about 15 minutes.
pretend you didn't read it and press the button
Connect your PC to the network then run internal networking as you like through a 2nd interface?
Shit, ask4? I think they were the isp when I was at uni about a decade ago. I'm sorry to hear they're still kicking.
If it's still the same as back then, all the dorms are essentially on the same lan and they're using Mac filtering at the gateway. Since this was before Https became ubiquitous this meant you could sniff other people's http requests.
What you do (what we did) was sign up with one device and setup a proxy on it. I think we used squid-cache. But anything that will masquerade the traffic as coming from that one device should do the trick.
Yes, i think squid proxy would do the trick too. It even has installers for windows.
As someone who has administered networks and written policies like this the concern here is that you will run an open network that may be used for piracy, hacking, DDOS or to send bomb threats. Tracing down this type of behavior is required by law and allowing students to run open networks makes this near impossible.
Not only that, but managing wifi channel congestion in a dorm is a pita.
It's tough enough when you fully control the airspace, to have nice clean coverage and overlapping cells.
But then add dozens or hundreds of individually managed APs in a tiny space...with DFS and/or 160MHz channel widths?
Ops best bet is to get their own 5g home internet and plug in.
You'll be hard pressed to get a router to talk to a captive portal sign in...but if OP wants to get creative, this can easily be fixed with a dumb switch and a Linux PC with two NICs. You could use windows for this, but why would you?
Mine didn't either when I lived in a dorm. I got around the network block.
this gives me playstation 1 CD swap vibes
(inserting a legal cd to pass verification and then swapping it for your own cd)
TIL you aren't a wireless professional until your hacks comes with a cinematic soundtrack.
You're not a wireless professional if you use wired ethernet cables...
That seems pretty standard stuff. My dorm had the same policy, because they operated their own mesh network and didn't want students sending out their own radio signals that would have absolutely made their wireless network not work well.
Is there some reason you need your own router?
ETA: The student dorm people probably meant a network switch. Regular, non-techy people don't usually know the difference between a router and a switch.
Yeah, the interference argument is fair, but I think this is also the ISP (totally separate third party) trying to protect the paid plans they sell for connecting more than one device...
It's definitely 90% of the reason
In that case, just set up a router level VPN. The university probably doesn't give a shit. Which is why the help desk IT kid said it's fine, probably.
It's the 3rd party ISP just being greedy. The ISP may not even care as long as you're not running an insane amount of traffic through it. Often this type of stuff is added to TOSs to allow them the option, if you're being a bad actor.
So it's a network operated by a third party? That's interesting. The handful of universities I've been to maintain their own.
My university had student apartments, each had their own router. No weird rules since it wasn't the university's network at all, it belonged to whoever lived in the apartment. Full router access, connect whatever, put it in bridge mode and connect your own if you want.
If there's enough space between them, it would be less of an issue. If it was in a multifamily high rise with hundreds of units, I would expect it to cause issues.
Is this a problem with 5G networks? There are more channels and they don't go through walls as well, right?
Tl;Dr It's complicated.
Do you mean 5Ghz networks (5G is cellular tech, after all)? If so, 5Ghz can travel through walls, but it doesn't travel as far, because there's an inverse relationship between range and channel width. Also, 5Ghz has a shorter wavelength; some of the signal's light will get absorbed by the walls, but not all of it.
Ultimately, you'd still have the same problem: too many radios sharing a limited range of frequencies on a band would interfere with each other if sufficiently close.
It would be akin to having everyone playing different music at full volume on their own personal speaker; you'll inevitably hear the people closest to you. Radios can't "hear" anything outside of their chosen frequency (channel), but if other people nearby are also on that channel, you might catch or lose some unintended packets, triggering a resend event (TCP) or causing stuttering/lag (UDP).
The number of channels available for 5Ghz varies by country, with the EU having the most, iirc. In the US, if you try to force your router to use one of the blacklisted channels, your devices will likely not connect (unless they were directly imported), despite being able to use the 5Ghz spectrum.
Where I went to school, originally the dorms were on the university network but a year in they offloaded us onto regular, commercial ISPs. The change was great for us since the university network was very strict on stuff like torrents (using DPI any torrent, even legal, got you disconnected for 24h)
Man, things sure have changed since I was in college. The university had one /15 and three /16s so every single ethernet port everywhere on campus had a publicly routable IP.
Napster was so goddamn fast...
Full 10Mbps line speed!
I remember when I was in college running a hackintosh. I was at the end of the hall and had awful Wi-Fi reception, so I just had my desktop emitting Wi-Fi for me and my dorm mate. I pirated some stuff but never seeded. I told my roommate about pirating and whatnot and showed him how to pirate Parks and Recreation. He didn’t turn off seeding. The university banned my MAC address, but luckily I could spoof one and have internet. He had to go to the dean and tell him he was sorry and that he won’t do it again to get my hardware MAC banned so I didn’t have to change it every time I booted up.
The fact that it was so simple for me to get around this ban was hilarious.
As someone whose job it is to deploy and manage wifi at a small university-adjacent student accommodation, these are similar to my rules. There are enough students that know enough to cause a problem, but not enough to know the pitfalls. It's best to just blanket cut this off for everyone's best experience.
Can you give some examples of issues you mention?
A few stories:
I've had a student install a super cheap (g only) repeater to provide wifi to their car in the car park, due to its location a number of students ended up using that rather than our APs. This slowed access for them dramatically.
I've had a student physically remove an AP to get to the 2.5 gigabit port they connect to, they somehow thought that would be better than the 1G they have in their rooms, despite it all being the same link out.
An overseas student cloned a MAC of their device to a travel router and effectively ran a VPN server for their family to try and give them an IP in our country.
The accommodation only has an hour of my time per week or so, they're not paying a lot so issues only get dealt with when I have the time for them, this leads to an extended period of bad access for folks and many complaints to the staff.
The main point of the story is that not all students take the experience of their neighbors into account. Hence the restrictions.
The difference here is that the ISP is up charging for multiple devices, meaning this isn't all being done for benevolent reasons.
The way many apartments work for non-students is each has its own WiFi. Honestly compared to how bad some Hall's WiFi is this is a better option, but it's not without problems. A lot of ISP routers either don't support or don't turn on by default DFS channels, 5.8GHz channels, 6 GHz band, or have WiFi 6 for BSS colouring. This means there will be loads of interference between adjacent WiFi networks.
It's really frustrating especially when you have ISPs like Virgin whose kit has DFS support, but despite touting smart wifi they just never enable it, and most people don't know to enable it either.
Yea that is true, there's definitely either a profit motive or they don't think they have the bandwidth for everyone to have multiple devices and are this introducing an up charge/scarcity to cover up that.
The site I look after we have a restriction on device numbers, 5 per room. Even that is flexible and not really enforced as in reality the network will be fine with thousands even. The main restrictions are about device behavior and preventing causing interference or outages.
There's only 120 rooms in the site I look after so it's not massive.
We're running W-Fi 6 with all channels enabled including DFS channels. We've great coverage (roughly one access point per 4 -6 rooms in a 90s building).
Not OP, but I'll add on some more complications.
Your network is designed with the minimum number of access points you need to have really good coverage. Adding more access points to the rooms increases interference and takes up usable frequencies. Rogue access points are hard to find and university IT has very limited resources.
That enterprise gear of the colleges using it's part of a bigger picture system with alerts and alarms and the ability to see an address problems and locate issues effectively.
Honestly this sounds like a bit of a pickle. If I were in your situation I would just use one of the cellular carriers 5g internets. I personally use a T-Mobile 5g internet hotspot with a fresh tomato flashed nether 6700 plugged into it. Then I basically do all of my networking from that. Latency is a fair bit higher (usually about 30-50ms) but upload is significantly better than spectrum.
The reason they don't want you using your own WiFi access point is probably because dorms are prone to over congestion if everyone sets up their own WiFi network.
If you wanted to fuck with them-and you don't mind spending money-then you could set up your WiFi and get internet via mobile carrier or starlink, so that you never actually have to agree to their terms. Then when/if someone comes around to bitch at you you can watch them slowly come to the conclusion that they've got nothing on you.
Otherwise your options are to follow the rules to the letter and live without vr streaming, or accept that you might get in trouble. Some WiFi routers can be configured to not advertise their network; annoying because you'll have to manually enter the network information on every device, but it might keep you from getting caught.
As for connecting multiple devices without paying; there's probably some creative ways to tunnel all your traffic through a single device to get around that. Could still get you in trouble if you're caught.
If you're doing anything that could get you in trouble with the school make sure you save the email in which they told you using your own router is allowed.
Just name the network something like Samsung S20 Personal Hotspot. They're not gonna look into why a student created a Hotspot with their phone.
Or, shit - lock the fucking door.
If it's a dorm they have the key.
IT does? Damn, didn't know - my bad. Where I'm from IT doesn't have the keys, and the people that do have the keys know better than to try entering people's dorms, unless it's really something critical. Wifi doesn't qualify.
Where I went to college, they probably didn't directly have the key, that'd have to go through maintenance. But one of the things you signed on to initially was for maintenance to enter if they needed to while you were out.
Plus, at least half of the WAPs were actually in rooms and not hallways, so to service the network beyond IDF problems they'd have to get in
Ah such a masterful plan, paying for your own internet
Tbf you're paying for the college to provide you internet.
Ah but that one isn't your own it's shared
I got news for you about almost every ISP
You don’t actually need internet for the VR streaming part, so you could just set up a router not plugged into the wall
You do if you are rendering in the cloud, e.g NVIDIA CloudXR. Not sure what OP plans to do.
that's an incredibly tiny edge case.
Sure yet it's a perfectly legitimate one. I'm not OP, it might be exactly their use case.
in a dorm room?
realtime cloud VR rendering for use in a dorm room?
A lab, sure.
A dorm bedroom?
pfft
I'm not sure if you played PCVR in the Summer but imagine that in a tiny room... it's just way too hot. Again I'm NOT saying it's good, or bad, I'm only saying you made assumption about OP usage. I'm not sure if you tried CloudXR but basically, it works and it's not that complex to setup (e.g 1h) so it's relatively faster and cheaper than building and owning a gaming PC.
I don't understand why you are even arguing about a legitimate usage.
because I've been into vr for about a decade and know no one who uses cloudXR. 120hz ain't gonna happen over a college dorm network. 90hz on quest 2 would be very challenging.
wait, you realize, his requirement for streaming has NOTHING to do with cloud rendering right?
You're just making another assumption, maybe the dorm has optic fiber with a big bandwidth and a lower latency that most home and business connection. Maybe OP doesn't care about 120hz and only heat. I don't think you are getting my point if you are pointing out imperfection about the current technology : it's possible.
psst
Hey, kid, don't tell anyone I told you about this
*Lifts coat
You got the goods! I used an HTTP tunnel when I was in college.
I also like the idea of ptunnel
I don’t understand how that can be reliable without being extremely obvious.
Yeah, any off the shelf network intrusion software would probably immediately flag either of those based solely on the amount of traffic.
Well it would be obvious. Any decent network tool would be able to filter traffic on a port or type (ICMP, DNS, etc).
“Wonder why this kid has 2.5Gb of DNS traffic last week? That isn’t normal. Maybe we should go check it out”
The trick to staying hidden is to look like noise. And this would not be noise.
In 2014 when I was in the hospital for a week I got a visit from their IT. Seems like pushing 5 to 10 gig a day through a ssh connection triggered something. Just a gig of ICMP of any variety would trip a alarm.
This is a very neat tool that I’ve bookmarked for further research. But I think you’re missing the point. He doesn’t need to hide network traffic, he needs a Wifi6 router. Now maybe you could setup a router to go through this service to further obfuscate the traffic but I don’t think this alone solves his purpose.
But I’m very glad you posted it because I love learning about little tricks like this to get around overly restrictive networks.
Man, I wish I knew this back then. I used Google translate as a proxy. Then that was blocked, so I used babelfish's built-in translation engine which was touch and go. This would have helped a lot lol
Does it work with DoH ?
No, this is specifically for DNS over UDP (Port 53). What you're looking for is just an HTTPS proxy. There is no difference between a DoH connection and any other HTTPS connection.
Except on my networks all port 53 tcp/udp and port 853 for that matter are forwarded to my dns per firewall rules. I also block all encrypted dns as well as dns over https blocked. Its my dns or nothing. I also have a vpn and proxy blocklist that updates twice a day. PFblockerNG is effective when maintained.
I love things that can route internet over something that should not be used for that. For example I'm thinking of making same thing over SMS and Veloren/Minecraft (or anyother videogame)'s private chat or something.
Oh, you are going to love this one then if you haven't seen it before: https://robertheaton.com/pyskywifi/
Not a lawyer but if you have an email that says you can, I'd argue it's override the ToS assuming the person giving permission actually legally can.
Anyway I bet what they avoid is reselling access so I believe as long as you don't pay for yourself then resell to others you'll be OK.
This. The ISP isn't going to care about (or notice) a single person using a router. They will notice and care if 1 person is consuming the data of 20.
The email says that you can do it. It doesn't say that you can do it without purchasing the upsell option.
And importantly, the email is from my dorm (whose contract simply said they provided free fast wifi), while these unexpected T&Cs are from the dorm's ISP.
Robust but complex solution:
Set up an encrypted VPN at the router level. Any encryption will work, even weak dumb encryption is fine. Any attempts to decrypt it would be mad illegal.
Turn off your SSID.
It is now functionally impossible to detect anything about the traffic or the Wi-Fi router without some serious or illegal methods.
You should really spend some time learning about WiFi signals. Tracking down rogue Access Points is a pretty common thing and having the SSID turned off does fuck all to prevent it. On the easy end, many enterprise wireless network controllers have rogue AP detection built right in and will show you a map of the location of the rogue AP. Harder, but still entirely possible, is running around with a setup just detecting the signal and triangulating it.
Yeah, I mistyped part of the sentence. Should have been "without some serious effort or illegal methods." Serious effort is well beyond most ISP's. They aren't sniffing wireless AP's then busting down doors to find out if its a 5g AP or an AP using their network. I actually know quite a bit about WiFi signals. I happen to be certified in Meraki (CMSS). If the uni said "no wireless signals" that would be a completely different story.
Users are often dumb. Imagine 100 people who think they know what they're doing trying to set up a bunch of custom networking.
That's your dorm.
Most dorms either outright prohibit using personal hardware like that or require the schools IT department to install it themselves and set it up.
Run a network of your own someday and you'll understand. It's hard enough to get your own network working perfectly without a bunch of wildcards popping up everywhere.
Do you know how many times I have killed my own network at home and I control EVERYTHING!! I’m the only wildcard…. Of course I have ADHD and documentation is not my strong suit 🤣
I've never seen this happen. The reality is unless it's a dorm full of CS students most don't know fuck all about WiFi, networks, or want to pay for their own routers. It's better to talk to the few who would attempt something like this.
No what this actually is is the ISP trying to make money charging for more devices.
If someone deploys their router using a uni network as wan then I don't see how that could affect other uni network users? I can imagine some internal services might not work behind such a router but it would be illogical of the user to blame anyone but themselves.
The post mentioned a wireless mesh network, so it sounds like the ISP/provider already has a bunch of wireless access points set up to cover the whole building. One of the problems with high-density living spaces is that there are only a limited number of communication channels WiFi can use, so if everyone living there also runs their own wireless networks they use up all the available channels and have to cross-talk over eachother, leading to everything slowing down.
If everything is set up perfectly, it should work, sure. Now how many people do you think even know the difference between WAN and LAN? You expecting the bio or art major to not make any mistakes at all? Or the business major?
But if the bio or art major can seriously affect your network then is that even their fault? What if someone had skill and malicious intent?
Lmao you are oblivious if you think it's possible to set up a network that someone CANT fuck up while having physical access to it.
It's not magic.
The point is NETWORKS ARE COMPLICATED. Users are generally dumb. The point is you don't expect them to have the knowledge to do it right. So they'll break something. Users with actual knowledge could yes, break things even worse.
That's EXACTLY why they're restricting hardware use.
Welcome to the conversation, smh
I do know from experience that networks are complicated and users are dumb, but I still think that if someone with barely any knowledge and without malicious intent can mess with your network then something's wrong with the setup.
Is the VR streaming in the Local net (PC to Headset)? Just run the WiFi router without plugging it into the wall. Connect only the pc and the headset.
Also, appart from that, to use more wired devices, maybe use an unmanaged switch. Don't think that does anything forbidden here.
Using your own WiFi router also bypasses the wireless security settings to access the school network.
Some resources are only available while on the network (printers, access to library, academic papers, other student hardware). Now imagine a random person in a coffee shop next door had u limited access to these resources via an unmanaged access point.
Never had access to stuff like that from my dorm, only in the library.
They don't want you plugging in your own gear to their network, fine.
Get one of the "5G Home Internet" services from T-Mobile or Verizon, plug your router into that.
https://www.t-mobile.com/home-internet
https://www.verizon.com/home/internet/5g/
Not on their network, they have absolutely no say over it.
While they "may" allow it. They absolutely have a say, and can prohibit it. Same way apartment complexes can prohibit pets.
Not really, it's not their network. No way to prohibit it. All you'd do is plug it into power.
The dorm could, the ISP couldn't.
While I believe they really could, that would be really stupid. Is creating a hotspot with your phone suddenly also not allowed? Because that's all it essentially is.
Since the price mentions British Pound Sterling as currency I dont think Verizon would be there. But T-Mobile is probably there in the UK.
If this is UK major local ISPs would be: O2, EE, Three
T-mobile did exist for a while but is now defunct and where replaced by Orange and then EE.
Three are the cheapest generally if they have coverage there.
Are these restrictions set out by the ISP or the dorm?
If you don't do business with the ISP, then you don't have to agree to and follow their terms.
So as long as the dorms doesn't have rules against setting up your own WiFi, then you should be well within your rights to purchase an Internet connection from another provider, but since you are likely not allowed to get your own line installed, you are probably restricted to ISPs that provide a service over the cellular network.
Of course using a cellular connection will give you worse latencies for online games, but at least you can have your own WiFi with low latency for your VR.
If you want to be nice, you could then run as much of your Internet network over ethernet as possible, so you congest the air waves as little as possible, possibly only running the VR headset over WiFi, and maybe even only enabling the WiFi radio when you want to play VR. If all your WiFi devices support 5GHz, you might also completely disable your 2.4GHz WiFi, to leave the most congested frequencies alone.
To lower the chance of someone complaining about your WiFi, you should configure it as a "hidden network", such that it doesn't broadcast an SSID, and therefore doesn't show up when people are looking for WiFi networks to connect to.
Assuming they have their own wifi, they just don't want you using wifi off of your own router. A wired connection should be fine.
Unfortunately, connecting to the ethernet port still prompts me to log into the network (make an account and accept these terms)
Accept the terms and ignore them
And if they complain, show them your previous correspondence with them
Would that work even if the T&Cs are for a third party (the ISP), while the correspondence is with my dorm provider (not legally related to my uni, they just have a partnership)?
Yes I did the same thing at my uni halls, said fuck paying for multi device, bought a router, named it like a phone hot-spot and never had issues.
In reality no one that works there is paid nearly enough to care about the ISP's terms and conditions, and even if someone from the ISP comes to do maintainance or something, they won't be there to snoop for rule breakers and even if they are, if the SSID looks like a phone hot-spot, they won't care, and even if they do they're not going to trace it back to you directly and even if they do, you have the email saying its okay which will shift any and all blame away from you.
So just go for it, there's a 99.999999999999999999% chance you won't get caught and even if you do you won't get any blame because you asked the company.
Probably not. But there is a good chance that they won't notice at all. If they do, you can always take it down.
Maybe use an inconspicuous ssid? Like a similar name to a company or institute nearby
Turn off SSID broadcasting entirely. Hidden networks require more technical expertise to discover than most people have.
The ISP techs will still be able to find it, but there's little reason for them to go looking when nothing seems out of the ordinary.
This is what I was going to recommend. Worse case scenario the internet gets shut off and he has to email somebody and say he won't do it again. Most likely that nobody will notice or care.
I would just accept the terms and disable wifi, or if you don't want to double nat just use a switch and accept the terms / login on every device connected to the switch.
Looks like that tos is just for the wifi network, if you've got an ethernet port then that won't be using the wifi.
The ethernet connexion still requires a login/account creation/T&C acceptance sadly.
Hmm, the fact that they specifically prohibit even WAPs is going to be a problem too. Do you have the earlier conversation in writing? I'd go back to whoever you spoke to before and ask them about it.
My university was pretty zen about this --- essentially, "don't use your own access point/router please. But if you do, please talk to your resident (University employed) student IT rep and they can probably help you set it up correctly."
I would set up your router, turn off ssid broadcast and forget about it. It's doubtful they have the equipment to find an access point that doesn't actively announce itself to the world .
Edit: it means you will have to manually add your wifi network to your devices by typing in the ssid on them but other than that there shouldn't be any issues
They will find it. Hidden is a software switch and your device just doesn’t show it. It’s still being advertised, however.
Maybe it depends on the access point. When I turn it off on my router there are no beacons sent. Unless you specifically probe the ssid it doesn't announce itself. BUT granted when you make a connection the ssid does show up during the handshake. If you were watching at the exact moment of connection then it would be detectable. I suppose they could use a mass deauther device and cause new connections and detect while that is happening but they they would need to triangulate the location of said ap... Again a lot of extra equipment.
If they go looking. It's unlikely they went out of their way to purchase and configure specialized devices in the building to catch it proactively.
I work IT at a university. They do go looking for this sort of thing. Every time students move in and plug in their equipment from home, entire network segments collapse. There is a game of whack a mole each time the term starts.
If somebody goes and causes an outage, I would expect nothing less than a tech walking around and trying to triangulate the offending router.
But in OP's case, it's an external ISP that provides internet services to the dorm. As long as nobody gives them a reason to start looking, I don't expect a for-profit ISP to be sending out a contractor proactively beyond the first week of move-ins. That costs them money, and likely a lot more money than they would recover by catching the handful of people trying to dogde the per-device upcharge.
You may be right. The sales side lines up a contract, installer comes out, and they move on.
So most dorms don't want you using your own routers because a bunch of student routers causes A LOT of inference.
You should probably reach out not to the dorm folks but the university networking folks as they're the ones that will ultimately make the decision on whether or not to turn things off/disconnect you.
A cheap networking switch would probably be okay by them to get some more wired connections in your dorm room (routers aren't really a great way to do that).
https://www.amazon.com/Linksys-Business-LGS105-Unmanaged-Enclosure/dp/B00FV12VSW/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?crid=3PUXDK6TFLZIT&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.zm2b2eGNCSReGFJuUskv6-s3cUVDK12lfqOmf729Jjx1nw8mI07xRjx4RZCcnWDhplIUW-7IOfSn6R7TMu0yVy_k9hGXtOs0SNS7RO8sN4RI5aa_8-iwSOXz6biaUH5pE27eM8eYyBzJl9tkYxX4erfrbMwkWwhSrqIKQGOSqx1DQ1z5ZiDGCyQ_u0k8IhaN1Ra-Zpsr07cg-ZjJnDz6lA.iHHYMOhPc6OW0LmOOPkf8taxFxWnD5Sbwy_NxZwTQbU&dib_tag=se&keywords=network+switch&qid=1725717407&sprefix=network+%2Caps%2C186&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfYXRm&psc=1
As a secondary concern, using a router will cause a double NAT for all your connected devices (universities don't operate in the way ISPs do). That could cause some weird networking shenanigans, particularly for anything peer-to-peer like online games.
That's good advice, however this dorm is not part of my uni (just a partner to provide housing) and the internet provider whose T&C I'm expected to accept and sign up for 1y of are a totally separate legal entity, that has a bunch of upsells for stuff like "connect more than 1 device" (which my router/AP would basically be bypassing, and I think that's what these clauses are about). About the interference, is it possible to limit it severely while still having a reliable connection just within my room? I only really want to connect:
You may want to update your OP. Not being part of the University, makes a HUGE difference and will affect your options. Typically, when people say "dorms" it's direct University provided housing.
Options in this case:
Just play dumb, nobody expects anyone to actually read TOS.
Setup a router level VPN.
Buy your own hotspot for Internet access. (May be cheaper to just pay for additional devices)
You can do a few things to reduce interference if the device broadcasting the signal supports it. Unifi APs support these settings. Most routers with WiFi probably do not support transmit power.
If you are really worried about getting caught not following the exact rules as written, you could always pay for multi device connections... then they won't care.
But it's definitely possible to set up your VR router in a way that is not gonna bother anything. Most people in this thread don't know that your VR router doesn't need internet access. If the VR stream is all it is doing, it can be isolated from the internet, and the isp won't know or care it exists.
The other thing about rules, that they don't tell us autistic people, is that following rules is actually kind of optional. Certainly more optional than it feels like to us. Think about it in terms of what the people were thinking when they wrote the rules, and who will be enforcing the rules and what they will care about. And what the enforcement of the rules would look like. (In this case, the most likely initial outcome of them enforcing these rules would be either an e-mail or paper letter telling you they noticed you are breaking a rule, possibly with details to help you stop breaking it, but likely not). Try to sus out the "spirit" of the rules rather than the letter of the rules. That is how all the other humans use rules and why to us it always feels like everyone is breaking all the rules and getting away with it.
If you follow every rule to the letter... you really can't do anything. At all. Like, literally, even we are breaking rules we don't yet know about every single day.
I have to agree with this comment. I'd probably just set up the router regardless (probably in WiFi AP mode) and not worry about it too much. No one reads the terms and conditions anyway. If someone comes to actually enforce the thing I'd obviously take it down. Hide the ssid if you want to.
As others mentioned, there are ways to also hide traffic behind a single device, maybe connecting to a VPN on the router level would help with this?
Back when I was in uni I had terrible wired Internet so I'd try anything. At one point I was using a jailbroken iPhone to share its 4g connection without having to pay extra to the wireless ISP (basically data plan was unlimited but tethering wasn't). It worked fine, I could use my data on any of the devices over wifi but it was barely faster than the wired network and it was a lot of hassle so I gave it up.
One of the ways they detect this is by checking the TTL of the packets coming from the "one" device is less than expected. If your router is using OpenWrt, you can configure an iptables rule to reset the TTL of outgoing packets to the default.
My router is an Archer C6 from TP-Link. I've never used OpenWrt, but I have used Linux on my laptop & server for many years. Is this worth looking into/possible without any prior networking knowledge?
It's pretty straightforward to use, in my experience. There's a web UI, so you won't need to worry about the nitty gritty details unless you go beyond what's supported through that.
I'm not advocating for breaking any rules, but many people dont know that you can hide your wifi routers SSID. even fewer people know how to track these networks.
Most commercial networks systems have the ability to detect rogue access points by analysing the radio spectrum, and hiding the SSID will not avoid detection once traffic starts flowing to it.
And they can triangulate the position of the rogue AP.
Interesting about hiding SSIDs, I never knew why that option existed. I'm here on Erasmus so I don't want to risk too much by knowingly breaking rules... them triangulating it to my room and starting a legal case or something sounds real scary.
It's also incredibly unlikely unless you're actually causing problems
If you really want wireless, do the Ethernet > Desktop/Laptop with hotspot and limit it's TX power WAY down to minimal levels.
You should be able to use it within your dorm room fine, but will have trouble penetrating beyond the walls and will also make detecting and triangulation quite difficult
So technically I should get away with connecting the router and making an AP right? I can't do a hotspot from my laptop because the performance is not high enough for streaming (this is why I bought a dedicated router).
In that case I would pickup a cheap USB Ethernet dongle (or 2 if the laptop doesn't have an onboard one)
Wall > Ethernet 1 and router > Ethernet 2
Configure windows to share Ethernet 1 connection to Ethernet 2 (Builtin functionality since Windows 7 iirc)
Configure the router for minimal power to the radios, use your laptop to handle captive portal and there should be no DHCP interference concerns with the Windows laptop on the middle in this fashion
Boom done, congratulate yourself a lil for a small win over corporate greed lol
It just says you can't use things that allow you to connect more devices than agreed. Which means nothing without knowing how many devices were allowed to begin with.
Yeah that's the thing... the max devices is one, unless I pay a fee (per device I think). This third party that manages the internet offers a bunch of upsells in the account creation for stuff like more devices.
Is this a private or for profit university?
So in regards to specifically VR, I'm just going to make the blind assumption that your headset is a quest 2 or something along those lines. For the time being on campus, you might just want to consider running VR through a physical USB-C link cable rather than jumping through so many hoops on the router setup. A decent cable will run you like $20 US or how ever that translates to local. The quality of the connection is generally about the same as wireless, the main drawback is usually a wired link can't put through enough energy to recharge you headset on top of the data transfer, so your battery will slowly drain over a few hours. There are also link cables that you can additionally plug your charger into so you don't slowly run out of battery, but I think the build quality on those is often sketchy. Either way something to consider.
Yeah, that's a possibility. I did fly the router all the way here but if I really can't use it I will go wired. Sadly I couldn't get WiVRn working on wired, and ALVR had really bad performance.
While you didn't name names of what app you were using for streaming, I just got into a similar situation with my dorm and what I found worked was using wired ALVR for my streaming. Not wireless, but good, long right-angled USB-C cables don't cost a fortune. https://github.com/alvr-org/ALVR/wiki/ALVR-wired-setup-(ALVR-over-USB)
You can disable your router's wireless networking (or hide its SSID if you want to use wireless networking). It won't be an issue if you use either way. Since your dorm told you that you could use a router; these terms wont matter.
Note that hiding its SSID won’t turn off the wireless broadcast which would be adding to the “noise” in whatever channel it’s using.
In this case you would want to turn off the wireless itself
I'm in a similar situation. Before I had to move all was fine, I had a single ethernet port I plugged my router into. It even had a static IPv4 (even though no IPv6 but I could just use tunnelbroker). Literally perfect.
After I moved I'm now stuck in this horribly designed network that has a stupid internet cafe tier login portal even for wired devices, unencrypted wifi, seemingly every single device from every student on the same network (I am getting blasted with other people's broadcast packets and I'm pretty sure the network congestion from that is where my weird intermittent packet loss comes from). And now I don't have any public IP address at all.
Whoever they hired to set this up is an absolute moron who has no idea about network security or how to make an efficient network and considering the internet cafe login portal probably likes to cause as much suffering as possible. (Not saying I'm necessarily qualified but the fact alone that I can connect to other people's AirPlay devices means they failed at both.)
And the reason all of this is a problem is that they also don't allow putting a router/firewall in front so I can get a sane network. Had to tear down pretty much all the infrastructure I set up in the old place because a lot of it was relying on me having control over the network. Of course, I knew none of this before I moved in, I was explicitly looking for internet shenanigans in the contract.
I now have a janky Wireguard mesh network setup with one of the machines being the IPv6 gateway. Awful but at least I have public addresses and IPv6 (and with that a bit of my own network space) again.
I can't comment on the 'device limit' as I don't remember being a thing, but I was at an ASK4 affiliated living quarter 5 years ago or so.
Back then I was able to plug in my router just fine. I disabled WiFi on it since I didn't need it and used it as a regular switch just fine.
This isn’t rare and not altogether a bad idea.
My university had a problem of students bringing their own WiFi routers before the dorms had WiFi. Students would set them up incorrectly and cause a series of problems with colliding DHCP servers and interference and it would cause outages for nearby wired students.
A lot of IT departments locked the network down for these reasons.
That's an IT problem, not a user problem. The downstream ports should have been isolated at both the link and packet layers. Configuring a router to share an unrestricted LAN between a dorm full of untrusted users is a disaster waiting to happen.
A lot of Unis have IT on a shoestring budget.Especially the CompSci dept have the most idiotic IT "professionals" working there.
Usually it is the Sciences dept like Mech-E or Tech-E or Elec-E who run massive Compute nodes for Rendering Physics or Fluid dynamics or something something research ....
Unfortunately, the Unis that have massive student dorms on-campus tend not to isolate their networks properly and allow students to directly connect to all depts Networks without any barriers. The isolation happens between LAN and Internet which is where most of the controls and filtering happens.
It would be nice if each dept had their own VPN servers and proper network isolation at the LAN instead of the crazy monkey wiring everything to everything else on-campus.
Can you use a switch for wired devices or is that also a no-no?
Switches are also explicitly banned as they allow bypassing the device limit.
It's a security\legal risk to allow adhoc wireless networks within your environment, pretty much any organization above a certain size has the same restrictions.
You could theoretically allow anyone to access your router directly, which would let them bypass agreeing to the Acceptable Use Policy, for example, shifting liability back to the organization for that users behavior.
One option could be to get one of those 5G modems. It would require you to pay for your own Internet service, but many will then provide an Ethernet connection as an option, meaning you would never have to accept the legal terms presented to you. You could even use Wi-Fi because technically you never agreed to the terms, and practically speaking so many devices generate Wi-Fi networks I think it would be hard to enforce that you don’t produce any networks. Printers, smart watches, IP cameras… Are they really going to wardrive and triangulate the position of wireless devices on a regular basis? A sneaky network named after a printer or hidden SSID combined with ignorance for a TOS you never agreed to would probably slip through the cracks.
They don’t own the spectrum. I’m not sure it’s even legal to mandate that you can’t use Wi-Fi devices as long as you’re not using their network. When I was in university, there were still tons of such devices emitting signals that weren’t connected to the university network despite policy.
This is pretty typical for universities. They don’t want the airwaves clogged, doubling up NAT can lead to networking wonkiness, and they don’t want you giving university network access to unauthorized folks with an open AP.
When you say VR streaming, you just mean wireless from your PC to the headset, right? There’s a chance you could do that with an offline wireless router if the VR experiences you’re looking to play are single player.
Name and shame that crappy backwards university.
The uni is not at fault here, the dorm is a separate entity that just happens to have a deal to keep some rooms for exchange students like me. The dorm is from iQ Student Accommodation (who told me I could bring a router), and the ISP they use is ASK4 (whose T&C you are seeing).
It’s perfectly reasonable there’s no shame involved.
The part that isn't reasonable is the misrepresentation. The Ethernet ports in the dorm aren't allowed to be used with WiFi routers, contrary to what the student was told beforehand.
The rule might be fine, but not lying about it. If it was just a mistake, the dorm company should still attempt to make it up to the student. This was a deciding factor in choosing this dorm, by the sound of it.
Pretty sure you could end around their TOS by connecting a PC with 2 Ethernet ports to the provider's internet and connect your router to the PC with the 2nd port. In the PC's OS bridge the 2 ports together, and disable the routers firewall.
That's just using a router with extra steps.
An extra step that doesn't go against their TOS, though.
Is it though? It seems the prohibition is against using any form of wireless access point, it doesn't matter where the network cable plugs in. When you have too many wifi networks blasting in a small area, the experience is degraded for everyone.
That might be one of the concern, but the TOS clearly doesn't state that. They only prohibit against attaching multiple devices to the network. If you attach it to your desktop PC, it could be considered not on the network as long as you don't bridge the two connections together.
That's in the OP, so it specifically calls out any kind of wireless access point.
Yeah, it might not be on the network, but the prohibition doesn't seem to be limited to network-connected devices. Bridging from your phone to your AP/router w/o touching the network may still be against TOS.
Oh yeah, they did mention that clause. I guess you can still limit the power of the wireless router so it doesn't penetrate too far outside the rooms, as well as using bands that is not as congrsted. That might be good enough to comply to the TOS, or it might not.
Oh sure. Personally, I would just break the rule and drop the transmit power on my router, banking on them not bothering to enforce it. They'll most likely give a warning first, especially since the dorm rep said it would be fine. I have broken plenty of dorm rules, yet never got as much as an email because I made sure my rule-breaking didn't bother other people so nobody reported it.
A lot of times, those rules are in place because someone ruined things for everyone and they added it so they have something to point to. If you don't cause problems with others, it shouldn't be an issue.
Not all that surprising. I don’t know of any network manager who’d happily allow rogue routers on their network, particularly if you still have it configured as a DHCP device and not a pass through device, which most college students do not consider and will very much disrupt campus network performance.
I'd be happy to set my device to passthrough mode, but I think the ISP prevents peer-to-peer connections (which my laptop would make to the VR headset) unless you buy one of their plans for Chromecast/smart TVs. Would that prevent it from working? And would I still be able to connect multiplw devices despite their one-device limit?
It’s hard to say without knowing all the details of how the college configures their network. Back when I was in college, I had a student job with the campus’ IT department, and students running into issues getting all their devices connected was a regular issue at the start of every year.
The main problem with most college networks is that you’ve typically got an enterprise setup that’s also having to double as home internet service for those living on campus. Depending on when the network was built it was likely only planning for students to have a laptop, maybe a desktop too, as opposed to modern times when just about every electronic device has an internet connection.
Some things just may not work like they did at home.
That's fair yeah. In my case the dorms are a separate unrelated company from the uni (they just have a partnership) and the ISP is yet another third party that did the install and sells extras to each student. I think it's pretty scummy since I read my whole dorm contract and it never said this would be a condition to the "free fast wifi" access.
Eww, yeah, that sounds like a crappy setup to milk more money from students with no other option - especially if you’ve got student aid requiring you to live in school housing.
You may want to see about getting your own wireless carrier internet service. Not the best solution, but at least it would be yours and unrestricted.
I'm only staying for a semester (via Erasmus, or what remains of it post-Brexit) so while I did consider this I don't think it's very viable.
Fair enough. My recommendation would be set the router to pass through and see if it works. Just secure the wireless network created by your AP - be a responsible network policy violator!
I don’t really have any other ideas that wouldn’t involve additional hardware, which doesn’t make much since give the short time you’ll be there.
Is there a limit to the number of devices allowed to connect that this rule is trying to enforce?
Either way, if the vr headset doesn't need internet connection you could connect your computer to the internet wirelessly and to your own router via cable for vr.
Why does the dhcp on the router affect the main network? I'd think if it has its own network the main network would only need to deal with the router, as opposed to all the devices connected to the router if it was passthrough?
Ah! I just saw you specified if it’s configured for pass through. If it is configured for pass through, then yeah it likely won’t cause issues on the network. The DHCP server is the critical bit.
From a network management perspective, though, they still won’t want these because you have to trust all these college students are going to properly configure their devices - most of them won’t know how and won’t bother figuring it out. And then you still have the issue of a bunch of unmanaged access points to your network, which is just poor security.
Yeah a simple little unmanaged switch would solve all these issues for about $20 and probably wouldn't break the ToS.
Yeah. I think OP’s issue is they may have a few devices that are wireless only. Not sure of the best way to handle those.
Ah yeah just saw they specifically want to connect a VR headset wirelessly. I'm not real sure how to approach that either, if there's any kind of port on the headset at all they could potentially adapt it to RJ45 but that defeats the whole point.
If a wireless connection is a must OP is just going to have to disable SSID broadcast, restrict it to certain MACs, and try to lock it down as much as possible and hope for the best. If they do it right it'll won't interfere with other devices and no one will ever know.
I didn't, that's just bad grammar. Edited the comment
Because that router will be broadcasting DHCP signals and offering IPs, conflicting with the authorized DHCP servers on the network. This wiki article will probably explain it better. I’m not so good with the words an such.
I don't know much about networking but that page seems to be about someone else setting up a dhcp server without the knowledge of the administrators or the users. In op's case the concerns about mitm attacks don't apply and the other concerns sound like problems that could arise in cases of misconfiguration or if the users aren't aware they're connected to a different network. I also couldn't see anything about it affecting the main network's performance
I mean, it’s all right there in the first two paragraphs. Keep in mind that by DHCP server we aren’t talking about something specifically set up by people with malicious intent. A home router is a DHCP server when not configured for pass through. Students who don’t know how routers actually work (we can’t all be IT nerds, lol) plug them into their dorm Ethernet jack, and now you’ve got an unauthorized device offering IP addresses that conflict with the authorized DHCP servers, which can quickly start causing issues with any new devices trying to connect to the network, and existing devices as their DHCP leases expire. Also keep in mind that we’re talking about a college network that will likely have local network resources for students like shared drives that would not be accessible to anyone connecting through the rogue device. Your IT department will quickly start getting complaints about the network that are caused by an access point you have no control over.
I see, I thought routers knew not to do dhcp on the Wan port
They do know enough to not send DHCP leases upstream..
If you plug the dorm ethernet jack into the LAN side of a consumer router, there's a chance they don't.
Sure, you can catch this if you watch the dhcp leases your router is handing out, but..
I'm assuming OP is at least smart enough to know that the port that's on its own/a different color/somehow different from the others is the one that goes into the wall. It sounds like they have at least that level of competence.
I’m sure OP is given the more technical nature of Lemmy users. But this thread is about the average college student with no networking knowledge.
ETA: Sorry that I specified you weren’t talking about the same thing the rest of us were in this thread.
Which is all well and good until you get someone who plugs both connections into the LAN ports.
Downvoting just because I pointed out a scenario you didn’t think of isn’t so classy.
No. I'm downvoting because your first comments stated it will happen if the router is set up to offer leases. Not that it could happen if a user ignores the quick start guide that says "plug this port into the wall." Then got all pissy with that other guy who pointed out that your article was about DHCP servers, not routers.
I’m not getting pissy about anything. That’s projection on your part, reading a tone that wasn’t there. Just because you’re in a bad mood today doesn’t mean the rest of the internet is.
Typically they do. Which is great until you get a student who doesn’t understand WAN vs LAN and plugs both connections into the LAN ports. Never underestimate the power of a Stupid User.
A consumer router only operates DHCP on the LAN side. Presumably one would plug the WAN side into the university network, making this a non-issue.
Some of my other replies address that. Worked in IT on a college campus, and every class will have at least a few clueless users who just plug the cables into the LAN ports.
Makes sense. Would that not be trivially mitigated by just blocking dhcp responses from unapproved servers on the switch though?
Should be, yes. At that point it’s a question of how well the network was configured. I’d hope this wouldn’t be much of an issue these days - I did graduate from college in 2011, and I’m sure (hopeful) campus networks have improved since my student IT job days. These days my router config experience is from the ISP side. The only private network I’m responsible for is my own, thankfully!
I went to college in the mid-late 2010s and I recall they specifically banned WiFi routers, but when I checked what they meant specifically all they cared was that it didn’t broadcast on the 2.4 or 5 ghz spectrum and if it was all wired I was fine.
Definitely makes sense - security concerns aside, the less crowded the broadcast space, the happier all the APs are.
probably protecting against the 5g. people might be allergic to it.
4/5g is exactly the allowed alternative and what refusing to allow infrastructure use leads to.
Mighty unpopular opinion here.
OP you are there at the Uni to learn to grow and pass the course+exams. If you need to do extracurricular activities, please setup time at home, travel home to do those things.
If home is faraway and you still want to do it, find a reliable off-campus-non-dorm location and do your stuff from there.
Your main objective is to get through Uni without falling behind and managing your time and effort wisely. If you fail Uni because you focused too much on non-essential activities, be a responsible adult and accept the results of your adult decisions.
Edit: I never said that OP shouldn't do non-Uni activities. Just that time+effort has to be MANAGED between the two. Life isnt fair and life doesnt give two shits if you fuck up. That is what being an adult means.
Edit2: I can see people commenting on Universities imposing mandatory dorm fees. Do you people not choose which university to apply and get accepted? Did you not think..."this uni is very strict, or this uni has a lot of on-campus resources, or this uni has great course-materials, etc etc" ... and it would also include "this uni dorm is optional/mandatory and I can live there cheap or live outside expensive or it is bum-ducking nowhere but fields/forests/wilderness" .... you did choose that uni to attend and paid up ?
While I see where you're coming from, I do need to clarify two things:
So, since this is related to your course and a required part of assignments, get things in writing,
Let the Dorm and ISP know that you need an exception due to coursework.
It might be in your best interest to temporarily invest in your own internet,I think 5G might have low enough latency to manage the connection.
If all this is for one semester until you move back ? Just get a cheap mini-PC install pfSense or any other firewall/router software to isolate all your devices and Wifi router from the rest of the network. I believe some people have mentioned MAC-spoofing and TTL-reset as ways to bypass detection. And if anyone asks, you can show your written communications and your course requirements.
Always be on the safe side when it comes to dealing with academics and private orgs.
There might be a Dept Counselor or Rep you can discuss about your requirements. Even professors can help with some of these kind of things.
As I understand it, people live in the dorms. Trying to focus on schoolwork 24/7 is an excellent way to burn yourself out and not graduate. Having down time for "non -essential activities" is important for mental health.
Yes but dorms are optional. No one attending Uni is forced to live in the dorms. Uni is not a boarding school at least to my knowledge.
That is not universal. My local university forces you to pay to live on campus in the dorms for the first 2 years of your attendance regardless. You can choose to live elsewhere but you're still paying the fees and no student is paying for two places to live lmao
It sucks if the University you chose forced such rules on students and included dorm as part of the tuition expenses. I cant imagine people taking on student debt with such high tuition+boarding. I guess anyone accepting at that local University is forced into this situation.
Lots of schools have a "freshmen must live on campus" policy, at least.
"schools" ? This is university. Quite surprising to hear that Universities would have a policy "freshmen MUST live on campus". Must be some kind of extreme private boarding "school". I feel bad for you if you went to such a Uni.
The state university in the town I live in has a policy that freshmen must live in the dorms unless they already live within city limits (small college town, so the university literally has a student body of about 1/2 the permanent residents of the town)
This is common in America. We do it so that universities don't have to compete with private landlords.
This is true of a even some public universities in the US. I can't remember if it was a rule where I was, but definitely most freshman did just live in dorms.
Lot of folks brought their own desktops to set up, and we were allowed Ethernet switches to hook up multiple devices - had to be wired. Wireless had two options, WPA# 802.1X or unencrypted captive portal guest. If your device didn't support that, it had to be wired by policy.
And they weren't wrong, I did a radio scan and they had the full sized enterprise access points about as good as they could (with a few low signal exceptions, and the air waves were still overloaded with too many people. The building uplink was perfectly fine, it was just overcrowded wireless.
Completely irrelevant to your prior point of "you're at Uni to learn AND NOTHING ELSE!!!"
People live in the dorms, that is what they are for. Part of living is having down time.
Life does not stop because he is there. Maybe VR is one of his Hobbies that could evolve in into a career. He should not stop life because of uni. It is also something you have to learn there, to balance work with your private life.
University is your life choice. If your life hobbies are impacting your choice to attend your chosen university, you still are a responsible adult.
Have hobbies, but don't deny your responsibilities for making your own choices in your own life.
I mean, obviously.
So if your only point is that time+effort needs to be managed between the two, what does that have to do with OP's question? OP asking what their options are doesn't mean they are neglecting to manage their time between the two.