Trump suggests giving Vladimir Putin whatever he wants
newrepublic.com
Donald Trump continues to suck up to the Russian president.
If Ukraine were to suddenly surrender to Russia, everything would be “much better,” at least according to Donald Trump.
During an afternoon press conference Wednesday, the Republican presidential nominee urged the Eastern European nation to submit to the foreign power, claiming that any deal, no matter how dismal for Ukraine’s freedom, would have been better than the current state of affairs.
“Ukraine is gone. It’s not Ukraine anymore. You can never replace those cities and towns, and you can never replace the dead people, so many dead people,” Trump said. “Any deal, even the worst deal, would have been better than what we have right now.
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Trumps plan to “solve russias war against ukraine” is to “give up”.
Is this the man you want leading your country?
Imagine FDR “solving ww2” by surrendering to japan and the nazis
"Don't worry, men—I have a plan."
...
"TAKE WHATEVER YOU WANT!"
The Shart of the Deal.
🤌
That's not even a "concept of a plan"
Well, concepts of a plan
This was his strategy in Afghanistan too!
Arguably that was always going to end with a Taliban takeover, but we could've done that without giving them a leg up.
If only we'd continued our brutal occupation of Afghanistan another 20 years, maybe the regime would've lasted another two weeks after we left.
Y'all are completely hopeless, enjoy your forever wars.
Are people like this just incapable of grasping nuance? I can only definitively speak for myself, but I'm pretty sure nobody here wants forever wars (maybe there are some dumb tankies that think they want it)
We all wanted out of Afghanistan, we just would prefer to have, you know, an actual plan.
But you know that already, don't you? Or are you actually that ignorant?
And what would that plan have looked like, exactly? How do you pull out of the country, watch the inevitable collapse of the regime you spent 20 years building, and hand the county over to your enemies without it being messy and getting egg on your face?
It was inevitable that things would play out the way they did, and it needed to happen. Biden made the call and accepted the fallout for a completely necessary and good decision that everyone had been calling for for years. And yet, rather than taking credit for it, y'all want to try to shift it over to Trump! That's insane to me.
Did I ever claim to be a fucking expert on military operations? I don't fucking know what that plan would look like. That doesn't mean I'm ok with how it went down.
It was absolutely not inevitable that it went down that way... Do you already forget how bad that shit was?
That's a completely ridiculous stance. You have no alternative whatsoever to what happened, and as I pointed out, it was always going to be messy because it represented 20 years of total failure, but you're criticizing it... why? Because the news told you to? The same news that lied us into the wars in the first place?
I didn't forget how bad the pullout was, I just also didn't forget how bad the occupation was. Ending the war deserves enough props to outweigh any mistakes made in the pullout.
I, someone who has no experience with military tactics whatsoever, personally, have no alternative and that means there must be no alternative.
I appreciate how much credit you're giving me here... but no. Don't be obtuse.
I know you're smarter than that.
What I said is that you have no alternative, which you just agreed with.
So that returns to my question - if you're not aware of any alternative, you have zero solutions to what could've been done differently, even with the benefit of hindsight, then what, exactly, has led you to make this criticism? Because the news told you to, the same news that told all sorts of lies to justify the wars?
Jesus Christ do I need to do everything for you?
I'm not an expert, so I don't need to provide an alternative, nor would I ever be expected to.
So instead of just making some shit up and then choosing to believe it, I'd rather take a look at what people who are actually experts might say about whether or not we could have done better...
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/30/politics/state-deparment-afghanistan-withdrawal-report/index.html
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/top-us-generals-testifying-congress-chaos-withdrawal-afghanistan/story?id=108281065
https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/03/19/congress/pushing-back-afghan-withdrawal-milley-biden-mckenzie-00147797
Oh hey look, even our own government agrees with me that we could have done better. They made a whole report about it: https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/State-AAR-AFG.pdf
This was Donald Trump's "plan," carried out by the Biden Administration (who were put in a shitty position that required them to adhere to the existing "plan"). Biden administration isn't blameless, but this is absolutely on Trump.
It's honestly pretty fucking weird that you are so adamant about this specific thing. I'm kind of curious as to why?
Why? You wanna know why? Because from the earliest age that I was aware of politics existing, we were sending people overseas to commit mass murder for no fucking reason! Why? Because I was calling for it to stop since I was thirteen and there was never any indication that it ever would! It legitimately could have continued for another 20 years as the corpses piled up higher and higher while having no meaningful voice to oppose it! My own damn brother came back so fucked up from the experience that he made my family's life a living hell and eventually went out to try to kill some innocent person! And we got off so unbelievably lucky, do you have any idea, and shred of understanding of what the people of those countries went through, for absolutely nothing? How dare you ask me why. You have a fucking responsibility to understand the horrors that you're supporting if you want to criticize the withdrawal.
But thank you for answering my question, you are indeed, blindly trusting what the "experts" in the media and government tell you to think, even when those exact same "experts" lied to the public and faced zero consequences, completely failed to show the perspective of the victims, and never experienced any personal cost from it.
It's absolutely bizarre to me that y'all refuse to give your own guy credit for ending the war. Trump "made a plan" but left it for the next guy to carry out so that he'd have to take the flak from the media when they inevitably attacked whoever ended the war. If he'd won reelection, he very well could've torn up that deal and left it to the next guy again, prolonging the war. Biden could've done the same, but he accepted the responsibility and took the flak, and there is absolutely no reason I can see for y'all to accept the media's framing of that as a bad thing, except that you just love war so much you won't take credit for ending it even when it would benefit you.
Ah, by the end I realized that this is really about team sports for you. And that's why you keep ignoring most of what he's saying.
You should take a moment to read up on the topic.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_U.S._troop_withdrawal_from_Afghanistan
Trump signed the original agreement with the Taliban. Biden delayed the deal from May until September. Trump had a year to handle sorting the agreement he made.
Most of us understand both presidents failed in it's execution. It's important you know that Trump lit a short fuse and walked away.
Trump failed in it's execution because we were still there when he left office. Biden succeeded in it's execution as evidenced by the fact that we are no longer there.
I will repeat my question, since you didn't answer it at all: How do you pull out of the country, watch the inevitable collapse of the regime you spent 20 years building, and hand the county over to your enemies without it being messy and getting egg on your face?
Either go full imperialist and take over the country, making it a US territory, or never bother in the first place.
That's...not a plan for exit.
I mean, I generally agree but this is a flippant, bad answer.
I know, but the whole situation was fuk
Are you 12...?
How about just "never bother in the first place?"
No, we should've left shortly after killing Bin Laden.
If we had pulled out then, the regime we were propping up would instantly collapse and the withdrawal would've been messy and y'all would be criticizing Obama for pulling out the exact same way you're criticizing the pullout the way it actually played out, because it was always going to play out the same way.
Criticism >>>> More American soldiers dying in a pointless war
Mike Gravel said it best:
That quote directly contradicts you criticizing the stance of giving up on Afghanistan. I should be the one quoting it at you. I cannot make any sense of your position whatsoever.
Not giving up, tipping the scales to favor a terrorist organization. His "deal" gave the Taliban greater legitimacy, bolstered their numbers, and probably gave them all a good laugh as we held up our end and they almost immediately violated the agreement.
So what? We got out, so it was a success. The Taliban were always going to take over, they didn't get "legitimized" by making a deal with the US, they got legitimized by winning the war. And so what if they did? Afghanistan is officially Not Our Problem.
No need to imagine when we have history to reference.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Chamberlain
To his credit, Chamberlain wasn't as bad as he's made out. When he implemented his policy of appeasement, Britain was not actually capable of meaningfully resisting nazi Germany. He basically brought time to bring Britain back to a war footing. When it became obvious to the public that war was coming, he fell on his sword. This cleared the way for Churchill to take charge, without significant infighting. He also inherited Britain on a far better war footing, and even then it was a close thing.
Basically, Chamberlain knew his plan wouldn't work long term. He took one "for king and country", likely knowing how it would be perceived. I can at least respect him for that.
I'm not arguing it was or wasn't right for Britain position at the time. Just making the point we know, from direct history, a policy of appeasement does nothing to stop further advancement.
It did though. Hitler could have gone after Britain and france earlier. However, he thought Britain was staying out of things, and so played more safe and slow. This brought Britain the time it needed. Hitler honestly didn't expect Britain to declare war on him, and that slowed his assault on that front. If WW2 had gone serious even 6 months earlier, Britain would have been in serious trouble. The RAF would have collapsed under the luftwaffa, and WW2 would have been very different. Appeasement traded lives for time.
Don't get me wrong, it was a dick move, and threw others under the tanks tracks to save Britain. It's also worth noting that this is not what Trump is trying to do. He's just being a boot licker to the most powerful person who will talk to him. Appeasement at least had a positive goal.
I think the person's point is that the situations are not entirely analogous. For one, the US at the moment is certainly not "not on war footing," nor do we need to buy time to build up forces.
The only reason it "worked" for Britain in WW2 was due to the specific situation that you described; that they needed to buy time.
I would not call that a useful strategy in any other circumstance.
Hitler didn't have a strong military in 1930's either. It gave Hitler time to build.
"The Rhineland coup is often seen as the moment when Hitler could have been stopped with very little effort; the German forces involved in the move were small, compared to the much larger, and at the time more powerful, French military."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remilitarisation_of_the_Rhineland#:~:text=On%207%20March%201936%2C%20using,decided%20against%20enforcing%20the%20treaties.
No they didn't, people tend to think it was all tanks zipping all over the place, but a good proportion of their army was still horse driven. I was stationed in (British Army) barrack in Germany in the 1980's. Barracks that had been built during the German build up prior to WW2. There was more space for horses than troops.
"how do you remove your hand from a lion's mouth?"
"very carefully."
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
If Chamberlain can give up Czeckoslovakia for “peace for our time”, and be remembered as a great man (or at least as a garage door opener) surely Trump can be remembered for all time by giving up Eastern Europe for profit for his time
Appeasement doesn't work. Appeasement never works. It didn't work with Hitler and it won't work with Put-ler. This piece of shit is a useful idiot and I'm saddened that quite a few people today lap this shit up and see this as the best path forward. Ukraine may be scarred now but they can and will rebuild when they win this war. Slava Ukraini
Appeasement can work, just not in the obvious way. It's like throwing steaks at a pack of hungry wolves. It won't slow them for long, but it might give you enough time to find the shells, and load the shotgun.
What Trump is doing doesn't even rise to the level of appeasement. He's just begging like a whipped dog to his master.
To be clear, even if it was appeasement, it still would accomplish nothing since the US does not need to buy time to build up their military.
Ehhh, recruitment levels have been plummeting. I'm not saying we couldn't absolutely kick Russia's shit in with what we currently have, and take out half of Iran's Navy again, while we are at it for shits and giggles. We could have some issues if WWIII were to happen, at least for a couple of months for the draft to catch up.
The US spends more on its military than the next 9 countries combined.
I think they'll be fine.
The biggest air force in the world is US Air Force.
The second biggest air force is US Army.
The fourth biggest air force is US Navy.
I think they'll be alright against Russia.
What a fucking waste
That's a damn good analogy. Appease for long enough to grab a big stick. My original thought on Dementia Don saying just "give Putin what he wants" felt to me like a "if we do this now he won't ask for more later and the war will stop" kinda thing. As I read it now I'm willing to bet you're more correct. There is no nuance here. The orange cheeto is angling for praise from his master and dictators the world over. How fucking dumb
Neville Chamberlain got a bad rap from history for doing exactly this. He gave Hitler bits of what he wanted while making sure Britain had enough modern fighters (Hurricanes and Spitfires) to fend off the Luftwaffe when war inevitably did break out.
Useful idiot has specific meaning. It is someone who is so dumb that you can convince him to betray his country for free and he does believe he is doing right thing.
I am pretty sure this piece of shit is getting paid.
Oh there's definitely kompromat on him. He's done terrible things to children on video I'm sure. He owes dark money to dangerous people.
You don’t need to subscribe to wild theories to understand this.
He was listed in the Epstein flight logs seven times.
He built condos for Russian oligarchs to launder money.
Interesting. I learned something new today. Thanks for sharing! And no doubt he's been bought/getting paid. Everything about him screams Russian asset.
I know a Ukrainan born US citizen with a significant amount of family still living in Ukraine who is also a Trump supporter. He hates Russia and wants Ukraine to maintain independence. I asked him a couple of weeks ago what he thought would happen to Ukraine if Trump was reelected and he said Ukraine would probably be left to fend for themselves. This statement did not come with remorse or condemnation, it was delivered in the same way you would describe the winner of a sporting event. A simple statement of fact.
I don't know how to respond to that kind of thinking. If the understanding that your vote might lead to the death of your family members doesn't break through the political polarization in this country and make you reconsider then I don't think anything will.
I'm trans, and I'm not the only one in my family.
My Dad claims he votes Republican for tax purposes.
Tell him that he won't be the one getting the tax cuts.
Reasonable answer to provide with ample evidence to back up claim.
So to him the potential to possibly pay less taxes is more important than his own child's safety and right to exist.
And that's not even mentioning that there is like a 99.98% chance that nothing Trump does with respect to taxes will ever affect him (positively) in any way.
Yeah that’s a thing trans people are unfortunately used to as a community. I’m lucky to not be in such a situation, my ex father votes republican for all the reasons
Your dad is a cheap asshole who is making your country worse by doing so. Please let him know
I was going to say that maybe the concept was too abstract for him, so the thought of losing family members to war didn't even cross his mind. It could never happen to him, right?
But then again, Ukraine has been at war with Russia for some time now. Surely he knows people who have perished in the war?
Did he give you a reason why he supports Trump? Is it maybe a misogyny thing?
I've known this guy for a long time. He's grown up in rural America so he has all the same reasons for supporting Trump as those people typically do with the added oddity of being more impacted by the negative outcomes of those policies. Guns, immigration, general economic stuff. At least those are the reasons they'll state publicly.
It seems more like an in-group thing than anything else to me. I would have expected some sort of expression of disagreement with Trump on this particular issue but he says he thinks Democrats will do the same thing despite all evidence to the contrary. That is how he's chosen to rationalize the situation.
OF COURSE HE DOES
Remember, that Putin has ambitions way beyond Ukraine. He will likely want the EU and NATO to pull out from CEE at minimum, if not those countries to join his empire in some way or another.
He won’t stop heading west until he regains control of alaska
Ask the japanese how well that goes over.
He has said he wants this back. And I think, especially this bit.
Where does that idea even come from?
Ironically it's the same logic Israel uses against the Palestinians. They want to destroy us and can't be reasoned with, so it has to be total war.
Difference being: here it's attributed to one man, Putin. Israel applies it to all Palestinians. Difference couldn't be more obvious.
Huge difference, Ukraine military operations were for a long time purely defensive, only engaging in their own territory. Now they are starting to target military facilities in Russian territory more with no evidince of excessive collatoral damage, which is still understandable. If Russia withdrew offensive forces, Ukraine would not be trying to 'wipe out' Russia.
Versus Israel where just tremendous indiscriminate operations are inflicting more 'collateral' damage than what would be considered understandable targets for deliberate damage. I think the world might have been pretty fine with surgical incursions against Hamas and Hezbollah, but Israel has not displayed that discipline.
Fuck that, but also notice "Ukraine is not Ukraine anymore". This is a dangerous part of propaganda.
People will rage against the headline and who knows if he will eventually back track on that, but he already sold the underlying message without any serious risk of backlash.
Crazy that these reporters can understand what Trump is trying to articulate around that mouthful of Putin's dick.
To be fair it is a rather small dick.
And a rather big mouth.
Oh, the biggest. Lots of people tell him. Very clever people. All the time.
🫲 🪗 🫱
And this just shows how uninformed Trump is.
So what deal is Trump talking about that would have left Ukraine alone? 2014? Nope. 2022? Nope.
The only deal Putin is willing to accept is total control over the sovereign nation of Ukraine.
Nah, he and the Duma have stated their victory conditions: total control over Ukraine AND the destruction of Ukrainian national identity. He doesn't want Ukraine thinking of itself as a sovereign nation, only a Russian state.
Well, he might be on to something.
I'm studying world history for the first time and I've so far gotten to 1938 and while I know absolutely nothing that happened after that, so far it looks like this suggestion has worked with this Hitler fellow.
The person Europe appeased eventually went on to go and shoot Hitler, afterall.
Spoiler
Sorry mate, I know with the remaster coming out soon that I should be careful with the spoilers.
What happened with Jenkins?
I found and old encyclopedia at a car boot sale from around that time. Looked up Germany and it mentioned that 'Herr Hitler had done wonders for Germany's economy but wasn't very popular in some circles as they considered his views and policies were extreme.'
Another fun fact - Nazis were very popular with a lot of the British Royal family and the 'upper classes'. They were also supported by The Daily Mail newspaper, some things never change do they?
Don't forget the American robber barons!
You’re not going to believe what happens in 1945.
trump embodies pretty much every single negative adjective you can possibly apply to a human being
The Art of the Squeal
Who really believes Russia will stop at their current claims? Once they achieve their current goals, they'll attack for more, and more, and more. The killing doesn't stop.
Hey, they're been doing it for 500 years straight, they gotta stop some day!
"Trump, I think that dictator is an imperialist! His Siberia is colonised, his Chechnya is colonised, and I'm pretty sure that Belarus is colonised!"
"A dictator who has lots of colonies is less likely to invade countries than a dictator whose colony supplies are low"
We could find you some .ml users if your question wasn't rhetorical.
"Launch codes, ownership of the United States, the souls of America's first born. Ya know, just being reasonable here..." - Donny Turnip
Of course the perennial misbehaver thinks that misbehavior should be rewarded.
It makes sense that Trump wants to surrender. He’s a pussy.
He lacks the warmth and depth to be one.
Donald, you bitch, you are the biggest coward. Go off yourself for humanity's sake
I mean, he’s already given him countless blowjobs, so yeah.
It didn't need to happen. It's your fault. Your skirt was a finger too short, Ukraine.
I know we promissed to protect you from Russia explicitly when you gave up your nuclear deterents but that was like soooo long ago.
Trump was happy enough to sell Ukraine a ton of weapons back in 2018, when Grimmer Bolton was whispering in his ear about playing both sides against the middle.
So much of this anti-war Trumpism is deeply cynical. He says this shit because the war is unpopular, but as soon as he's in the driver's seat he's going right back to the Nixon in Vietnam and Obama/Trump in Afghanistan strategy of dragging that shit out forever so he doesn't have to admit he lost.
People wax poetic about Trump being bad for Gaza. But this guy would be a nightmare for Europe more than anything. He's erratic, untrustworthy, and easily swayed.
I think Harris is shit on foreign policy, but I have no illusions about Trump immediately kicking off more conflicts internationally because one of his Beautiful Generals told him it would look cool to drop another fuel bomb or three.
They were basically asking for it
sure give to him one piece of lead at a time. high speed
I'll take things that will never happen for $200, Alex!
God I wish I saw and end in sight, though.
Alternate headline:
TrumpNeville Chamberlain suggests givingVladimir PutinAdolf Hitler whatever he wantsI could have sworn at one point Russia claimed to have annexed certain parts of Ukraine due to ethnic Russians, very similar to Hitlers Sudetenland claims.
Central Ukraine suppressing russian language\culture in Donbas, Luhansk and Crimea were their talking points right before 2014.
Comparing Trump to Chamberlain is a pretty big disservice to Chamberlain. History at least shows that Chamberlain was correct about Britain's ability to combat German aggression, and his appeasement bought Britain the time to properly arm and ready themselves for war.
Trump's just a sniveling sycophant who wants to give Daddy Putin everything he wants because he hopes Putin will be proud of him and treat him as a big man.
No - Chamberlain bought us time to stand up to him. But only just. Trump is just a whining lapdog.
Ah, the negotiator /s
Why don't we just give up, Pardner?
EDIT: Removed large reaction image per community rules.
Jfc this guy somehow made it? How about, "we can never replace the countless lives lost in this war, or repair the families that have been broken"
Idk. Is it great? Nah, but I can type a thing in like 20 seconds and this orange potato just fuckin speaks like a middle school student. How the fuck
Very beta
Of course he does. He is his puppet.
I have no words
What a tool.
Tool or fool? It can be argued that all tools are fools which would most likely make all fools, tools.
This is the art of the deal: give them everything they want, say it was the plan all along, and then brag how you won the negotiation.
For someone who nominally has a fortune in real estate, he clearly doesn’t understand how construction works.
You absolutely can replace towns and cities, and someone is going to make a shitload of money doing just that once the conflict is over. The only question at the moment is whether they’re going to be Russians or westerners.
It's scary how few words I had to replace to make that work. Appeasement of a genocidal dictator does not have a good historical track record.
He's plainly asking for Russian interference on his behalf.
He's Putins pretty lil puppet. 😊
I keep upgrading what kind of leverage putin has on dolt45. I'm now pretty sure trump must have choked his male prostitute of the night to death on camera.
You really think he has the strength to choke someone to death with those tiny hands?
Smothered to death, maybe.
Trump doing his best Chamberlin impersonation?
So Kamela Harris is Churchill?
Ah. Another sterling strategy from Donald "Neville" Trump.
Power of the pee pee video
Gobble gobble
Donnie has concepts of a plan.
Harris suggests giving Israel whatever they want. But, one is far more effective at killing innocents than the other.
Giant douche or turd sandwich? I'll endorse neither.
And you'll get the worse one.
So you'll happily vote for Trump if he's running against someone worse? I feel like eventually you have to draw a line somewhere
Honestly it's not a bad point, but it's also not reflective or a great comparison since it's not really grounded in reality. I'd vote for the person not willing "fix" america in favour of white supremacy.
For these getting bombed to death reality is already as bad as it can be. Both red and blue have innocents blood in their hands and are evil.
It's not worse for me as a brown individual. That damage is already done.
It's worse for MLK's white moderates because they can't ignore the issues the rest of us have been suffering our whole lives.
I'll choose justice over order and principle over comfort. It's the only way forward.
I feel like you're implying that being made aware of injustice is a worse position to be in than actually suffering from those same injustices, and that has to be the stupidest thing I've read in a while.
Somehow reaching that conclusion is one of the stupidest thing I've read in awhile.
When the majority were aware of injustice we sang in the streets, "Fuck Donald Trump and fuck Biden, too! Neither of them give a fuck about you!"
That's was an incredibly good thing. The trade unions were paying attention. Now is our time. A few years later the US has more strikes than we've seen since between the world wars.
Seems you're not paying attention to We the People. That's a critical mistake.
All sizzle, no steak. 🥱
Fair and That's probably what will be happening. Many of us are probably not coming out the otherside in that case.
Effective means of societal change always have collateral damage. It's especially true in the current paradigm. But, the more that choose meaningful change and proactively sacrifice for it, the less the collateral damage.
That's why there's a homeless man living in my shed. Without need to seek out shelter, water, food, and clothing he learned to use a computer/internet in a week and has now secured several job interviews. If he fucked up or someone fucked him over he can come back. He'll probably be one that makes it to the "other side".
I don't think I'm special. These are basic human responses to the situation that exists. Government won't help. We must help each other. Seems simple enough to me.
Where exactly did she do that. Source...
That sounds like a Facebook statement where eople like you just keep coming up with increasingly absurd comments until you forget what the truth is (like those anti EV people on Facebook who have somehow convinced themselves that petrol is cleaner and EVs constantly blow up, because they just keep upping their own comments).
So I'd really like a source on that one