"Write a Check for $11,000. She Was 26, She Had Limited Value." [Seattle Police] Officer Jokes with Police Union Leader About Killing of Pedestrian by Fellow Cop
publicola.com
In a conversation with Mike Solan, the head of the Seattle Police Officers’ Guild, Seattle Police Department officer and SPOG vice president Daniel Auderer minimized the killing of 23-year-old student Jaahnavi Kandula by police officer Kevin Dave and joked that she had “limited value” as a “regular person” who was only 26 years old.
...
In fact, as we reported exclusively, Dave was driving 74 miles an hour in a 25 mile per hour zone and struck Kandula while she was attempting to cross the street in a marked and well-lighted crosswalk.
Seattle PD is fucking garbage.
They threw a bitch fit when the citizens got pissed they were tear gassing random people (including children) who were walking on the sidewalk and had nothing to do with the George Floyd protests or CHOP.
They were under federal observation for over a decade because they were responsible for multiple questionable deaths.
A ton of the force quit because they didn't want to get vaccinated during COVID.
Recently they had a Trump flag with a Nazi symbol on it in one of their breakrooms that nobody took down.
The list goes on and on. They need to dissolve the police union in Seattle entirely, and set a precedent. I'm not anti-police, but I am over their whiney bullshit and completely unethical behavior. Seriously, fuck Seattle PD.
Seattle PD is and has always been terrible. For a city with as little violent crime as we are, you would think that we would have a semi-competant police force. We aren't Baltimore or Chicago or Memphis. We don't need a violent, antagonistic, adversarial police force. Yet decade after decade, Seattle PD shows themselves to be the worst of the worst of violent white nationalists.
SPD's training standards are embarrassingly low. SPD's staffing numbers are embarrassing low. Rookie cops make over $100k and the right-wing pundits say it's not enough, while first-year teachers make $55k and the right-wing pundits say it's too much. They blame the BLM riots and say that the city betrayed them, but the average person here had absolutely zero faith in them well before the riots. Most SPD officers don't actually live in Seattle.
Sorry if the second paragraph got a bit into unhinged-rant territory, but shit like this is infuriating. SPD is so clearly shit and needs to be purged.
It's partly because of how they're trained, Killology, and partly because these are people policing us from outside of Seattle.
If you live in the Seattle area, you surely know that a lot of people who don't live in the metro area really resent Seattlites. They're not really clear about why. I guess for being progressive.
Not much of the police force lives in the city proper. So we're being policed by outsiders who dislike us to begin with.
State senators make $60k/yr.
Over 50 SPD cops last year made over $250,000
We aren't getting what we're paying for.
Dissolve and restart the force using a different psych profile and ban the one currently used.
Something that will always be my first thoughts when I think of Seattle cops...
Walking down 4th ave and a guy on the corner offers to sell me drugs (I got crack, coke, and smack?) I walked across the intersection and at the next block is a cop in a car waiting for the light to turn. I point at the dealer and tell the cop that guy just offered to sell me cocaine and heroin.
His reply was that I should call 911
wowzers.
Then another memory I have is walking near Pike Place and two beat cops are walking towards me. I say hell to them and they give me dirty looks. Don't say anything to me and look me up and down and then move on.
Like really? WTF
You keep saying SPD and I keep wondering how Space Patrol Delta sunk so low. It's no wonder the top of the force turned evil and the B-team Power Rangers became the heroes we needed to stop them.
You forgot about the part where they don't respond to calls. Just a couple of days ago, a man was found dead at 10:00 a.m. The sound of shots fired had been reported at 3:00 a.m., but the police decided not to respond to that call.
A friend's son was stabbed multiple times last year and they did nothing. He knew the guy's name, or at least an alias, and had a picture because the guy had contacted him on social media to buy something, which is why they were meeting in the first place, and SPD was like, "wow that's a bummer, I guess we could maybe arrest the guy if one of our officers happens to trip over him during their daily rounds of doing jack shit, but we're not gonna actually look for him." Apparently attempted murder with a side of robbery doesn't warrant them removing their thumbs from their asses to do the bare minimum of investigation.
Wow, that's horrible. Not surprising here, but still horrible.
I work on Aurora and I've had the police literally tell me to stop complaining to them about the prostitutes and meth heads because they don't care...
don't forget this https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/man-dies-6-years-after-he-was-slammed-into-wall-by-deputy-disabled/
Canada has similar issues with stupid cop shit.
Calgary officer who body slammed handcuffed Black woman should go to jail, Crown argues
She OD'd on the day the cop was sentenced to a nothing-burger sentence.
I didn't forget. This was one of the worst examples of police abuse that almost nobody knows about. That Sheriff's Deputy had a long history of violence, and was literally being used as hired muscle by the King County Sheriff at that time. The Deputy should have been charged with attempted murder, and more importantly he shouldn't have had a fucking job as a police officer in the first place.
I lived a block away form this when it happened. I was moments away from it and remember the yelling and didn't know what happened until the next day. It really frightened me how it all panned out. Like yeah, NOBODY IS SAFE FROM THESE ASSHOLES
All went downhill after Marty Crane retired.
Marty Crane was just as much a bastard as the rest though. Regularly acted like he was above the law. Also constantly verbally and emotionally abused his kids.
He also admitted to lying under oath.
Fuck. I forgot about that.
You forgot more known January 6th participants than any other department in the country:
https://www.kuow.org/stories/police-departments-search-for-political-extremism-in-ranks-following-capitol-riot
“No, it’s a regular person.”
I’m speechless. I know the training draws a line between the police and everyone else, but for it to be right there in print, from someone high up the hierarchy…I’m stunned that they could be so callous with a life.
It really is “us versus them,” isn’t it?
I am not aware of any place else where police refer to people as "civilians". Usually that is reserved for military and not military. But in the US they think it's borderline martial law.
They really honestly believe there is a separation between them and "us.". I believe this is the root of the problem.
Why do cops have the power to just routinely turn off their body cams?
That should be limited to using the bathroom. If it gets turned off during regular duty, it should be presumed to mean something is being covered up because that is exactly what it means. There should be paperwork triggered every time it is turned off.
They shouldn't be able to turn it off ever, for any reason. If there is a privacy issue it needs to be dealt with administratively, and not at the discretion of individual officers. If they can turn it off then it defeats the entire purpose of wearing them in the first place in my opinion.
I think it's actually worse than just defeating the purpose. The good ones will leave their cams on all the time and be more likely to be pushed out by the bad ones over something petty, with evidence.
they impose invasive drug tests on people [as an extremely minor, parallel example], they don't deserve a fucking bit of privacy
If you would allow that bathroom exception they would be pissing on corpses
Their badge ought to be a camera. If you aren't running the camera, then you're not a cop, your just a regular dude in a police officer costume.
If you have to take a urine test they're watching you pee, so they should just let the camera roll and deal.
How the fuck do you say that a human life has "Limited Value", and then not immediately have a "Are we the baddies?" moment
It's what happens when your humanity has been trained out of you.
Also in this case I suspect racism
Yeah I thought the same thing when I saw the victim's name. Really unfortunate too because human life has intrinsic value of course...
In order to be a baddie, you generally need to be super self-righteous. Cops are always self-righteous.
Seattle Police have known they are the baddies for a long time and it's why they sign up for the job.
How is it police unions seemingly have more power than any other union? The writers are striking and that's barely doing anything for them but the pigs? They just have to bat an eyelash and get what they want...
Because regular unions are there to safeguard the worker's rights against abuse from employers.
Police unions are there to safeguard cops from facing discipline for murdering people.
Plus they don't send the Pinkertons to bash people's skulls in when it's cops on the picket line.
And let's not forget that law enforcement has been the primary tool of unionbusting from day 1.
Because they’re class traitors that enforce the rules of the status quo.
They're massive for a start. Police have something like 60% Union membership. Compare that IT and service industries which are in the area of 3-6%. That gives them serious clout for lobbying legislation and anything else.
Unions are effective. Sadly this one i just happens to be working for a rotten gang.
Interesting. I guess I didn't realize some industries that appear to only hire union actually hire both union and non.
AFAIK spd still reports overtime on paper forms, often long after the work was done.
https://crosscut.com/2016/04/seattle-police-department-out-of-control-overtime
https://www.aclu-wa.org/story/exploring-divestmentreinvestment-approach-policing-aclu-wa-blog-series-0
SPOG is a stain on this city. They protect the worst and leave decent cops out to hang.
Because they have guns and apparently the ability to use them indiscriminately.
Mike Solan purposely put his address as the east precinct so that he could vote in that district. He does not live in Seattle. That is a felony. The SPD willingly vote for a felon to head their union.
I fucking hate SPOG.
Police and prosecutors are allowed to do that where I live by law. Maybe the same there?
That was his voting address. That is not legal here. OPA (the committee that reviews complaints against the police and recommend disciplinary action) recommended it be criminally investigated since it is a class C felony. SPD of course ignored that recommendation completely.
"Now, son, I don't make the law. I just have 100% latitude to decide whether to enforce the law, several laws are written such that you can be convicted of felonies with only my testimony, and there are no consequences when I lie under oath."
Wow, that seems strict, at least if the rule was going to be enforced.
Not sure that I would call that strict considering he was purposely trying to affect an election where he does not live. He is not a police officer, BTW. He is a shithead who blamed January 6th on BLM protesters despite six SPD officers being part of it.
Same here, but their true address is still held somewhere. It's only the displayed address on a driver's license that shows the police station/court. Listing it as their address for voting purposes probably is probably murky, and not explicitly allowed or explicitly illegal.
It is explicitly a class C felony. The OPA recommended it be criminally investigated and SPD completely ignored that.
Fair enough. Different states, different rules.
Give the guy that reported the conversation the raise of the guy(s) that were involved and didn't report it. Also fire them. Reward the good behavior, punish the bad and we'll stop saying ACAB.
Na, ACAB til we die. Policing should not exist as most crimes are a product of the existence those police uphold.
bonk off to commie jail
bonk against the wall
I'm sorry, but are you saying rape, murder of a spouse, child abuse, etc. are somehow due to the existence of policing? Is there any way you can possibly make me believe that? Please try, if you can, 'cause otherwise I'm just gonna think that I read some MORE total nonsense on the intent today
Typical cop evil. I expect that "just a regular person" translates to "not somebody important enough to actually pose a legal threat." That is, not a cop, reporter, politician, celebrity, etc.
I don't think you're wrong, but I looked at her name and my first thought was that it was because she wasn't white.
Oh no, these people would never call a non white "regular"
I dont think so, else he would have used a slur. So most probably he meant, person of no consequence.
Seattle PD has been under a consent decree for the last decade for over-use of force and racist practices. The decree is about to end (and the PD is petitioning to end it early), and the problem has not improved. It's gotten worse.
There's all this talk here (I'm a Seattleite) of how the police are trying to regain trust or are frustrated at the lack of trust, but they don't take accountability for their actions.
10% of all homicides in Seattle are committed by the police. They don't show up when you report a shooting.
I wonder why we don't trust them.
https://www.theurbanist.org/2023/09/08/op-ed-walking-away-from-the-empty-promise-of-seattles-consent-decree/
https://komonews.com/news/local/north-seattle-suspicious-death-investigation-person-found-near-encampment-police-homicide-detectives-crime-murder-40th-street-4th-ave-motive-cause-of-death-shooting-stabbing-dead-victim-suspect#
I’m sorry, ten percent??????? That’s insane. How the fuck has it not been dismantled?
That's (partly) why they got put under consent decree a decade ago! But somehow, it's ending even though they haven't improved.
Back in the 1920s, Germany generated the most vile, most iredeemable "easy villains" that could be killed en masse in any heroic fictional media with hardly any thought to issues of morality. When real world wars are too complicated, involving multiple sides with their own form of blame, an uprising of the fourth reich in modern days is an easy villain.
I wonder if we've found a new one though.
Jail or worse, immediately.
It's almost as if that cop has lost some of his humanity. Auderer, I mean. While this may be something that people can write off as "part of the job" it is unacceptable. Auderer needs to be put on indefinite mental health leave, and the rest of us need to have a long conversation about how we got here and what we're going to do about it
If I were to kill someone on the job while driving a company vehicle 3x the speed limit, ignoring protocol and several laws, I wouldn't be put on indefinite paid leave, and I'm willing to bet that you wouldn't either.
It's shameful that embarrassment is our path to any shred of accountability.
We are taking about two different cops
74 in a 25 zone, not using lights and sirens, killed someone, and being put on indefinite mental health leave - are you sure?
I'm talking about 2 different officers. The guy actually driving the car is not who I am talking about
What a great idea to staff your peacekeeping force exclusively with narcissists and sociopaths.
Omg reading the whole article is so much worse
As an exercise for the reader, look for the sentence that is something like this every single time an article comes out about bodycam or other video footage after a controversial police event.
You'll almost always find one. TL;DR: When cameras are on cops, turns out they are shown to lie. A lot.
If you want get really mad and/or have a reddit account you want banned, just check r/protectandserve.
They're lamenting how bad this makes them look, and how this will make policing harder.
There are some who are even agreeing with the officer, about how these "remarks" shouldn't get him fired.
99% of cops make the rest look bad.
The 1% of good cops are either killed in the line of duty, fired or killed by other police. Making 100% of the cops bad.
All cops are bastards.
It was a joke. Yes, ACAB.
It’s a joke but it’s also a real rebuttle. It’s weird. An in-law relative of mine became a cop. So, I guess since he’s not a total jerk he’s part of the 1%.. And yet, he’s going to find himself either doing what he’s told or he’s going to find himself out of a job or out of life. It’s just too big of a gang for one person to break up. The union is another issue entirely.
It looks bad because it is bad. Unfortunately it's just par for the course and nothing will change, because we live in hell.
Just got immediately banned there. Those mods are keeping a close eye on that thread, lol.
There's a disgusting amount of bootlicking in that thread. "I believe officer 'whatshisname' deserves a second chance" 🥺
He got his second chance, he fucked it up by opening his mouth.
He absolutely SHOULD get a second chance just like the one he gave Kandula.
This dude already has like five chances in his record as it is, he's a real piece of shit.
Ghoulish.
Reducing the 'value' of a life to monetary terms just means it's legal to kill them if you have the money.
Also, that shit should be disqualifying in people supposedly sworn to uphold the law
Can't expect anything different from the police when both major parties will do nothing meaningful to hold them accountable. You want change? You have to vote for it.
o yea, lets choose between geriatric fascism or decrepid neoliberalism that oughtta change eveything
The problem is it won't change anything.
then don't vote ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Might as well, really. Most people in this country experience no meaningful difference in their life regardless of who we elect.
And they know it, which is why so many don't bother.
That is the most privileged take I've ever seen. I know people who've had to move states because of transphobia.
Does it even matter if it affects most people or just some people? If 10% of people need to flee their state or 37% go into poverty because of conservative laws, most people are still fine. That doesn't make their situations acceptable.
A cornerstone of socially left policy is standing up for minorities and fighting for them to have equal civil rights. By definition, a minority is not "most people".
If you consider yourself left of center, you need to do some introspection. You can't write off a minority and still consider yourself on the left.
Most people in this country don't NOTICE the effect they experience based on who gets voted in. ftfy🙃
Lmao
It's not about the voting, at least not directly. It's about the cost of hiring and maintaining a police force, and the kind of person who would be willing to be a police officer for low pay, versus the type that would want high pay for the same position, and how that affects city budgets.
High pay doesn’t help. There are a lot of very high paying police departments and they’re just as corrupt and violent as the others.
[Citation required]
LAPD pays almost $90K for officers training in the academy and it goes up from there. They have excellent benefits and an actual pension. Studen loan forgiveness and a bunch of other things. They get paid even more if they work night shifts or overtime.
Yeah, but I'm guessing Los Angeles is an outlier salary wise?
Also, think about it, 90k and you can die at any time, versus other corporate jobs that pay a lot more and death is not an immediate concern in your life.
Takes two types of mindsets to take a police job that has a high risk of death. One where you want to help humanity, and the other where you want to control humanity for power sake.
(Technically I'm assuming there could be a third type, the thrill seeker, but there's many other career and recreational ways of getting that kind of adrenaline rush so I didn't include it as one of the major types.)
I'm assuming the ones who want to control humanity will take a lot less money for a job with that risk than the ones who just want to help humanity. We all seem to have some kind of threshold about when we stop wanting to help humanity and start taking care of ourselves.
Every fucking cop is a fucking monster.
ACAB.
We all have to sit back and let cops do this because they have the power and the military-grade weaponry. What the fuck can we do to stop them?
Well I suppose we could start by abiding by the tender suggestion of a certain document and not let them be the only ones with weapons.
Why do you gun humping morons slide this stupid shit into every fucking conversation?
Was this woman supposed to have whipped out her ar and start blasting the cop car racing towards her?
+1
Why is the solution to police having guns, more guns?
Maybe less guns is the answer?
Maybe?
So get to work on forcing those cops to give up their guns already.
refer you to "what the fuck can we do to stop them?" from the original post, then.
refer you to "So get to work on forcing those cops to give up their guns already" from my comment that you replied to, then.
The "I am rubber you are glue" defense doesn't work here.
You: "Force cops to give up their guns"
Me: "How?"
You: "Force cops to give up their guns"
Are you trying to say essentially there's no path forward except the fascist militarization of law enforcement at the sacrifice of all (other than 2A) Constitutional liberty?
No
So, what do we do?
I guess the myriad of countries around the world that have heavy gun restrictions and no gun problems aren't example enough?
No theres just nothing that can be done about americas gun problems. Nothing...
Well if the cops are keeping their guns, then the citizens certainly shall retain that right as well. It is our right anyway, and I'm glad we have that freedom.
Y'all are just going to have to get over your hysterical idea that "getting rid of the guns" is a realistic option. It's just a simple-minded fantasy due to the fact that our rights are iron-clad, and the millions of unregistered guns in private hands would never be relinquished whether they were banned or not.
I'm not afraid of gun violence, because I can read and understand statistics well enough to comprehend that it's not a danger significant enough to worry about. It's not even in the top 10 most common causes of death in the USA. I enjoy a life of general contentment and peace in the USA, doing pretty much whatever the fuck I want on a daily basis, and it is pretty wonderful.
Police have guns in other countries and dont go around shooting people that arent criminals and for no reason. Seems the problem isnt so much the guns but the types or people that are becoming police and the way they are trained. You think there cant be any change because you wont see its affect immediately. It will take time. But it can happen.
Also saying its not even the top 10 cause of death is a bit dumb. So even thought it will help reduce death its not worth dealing with because more people die of other things. Sure.
No it's not dumb at all, it's quite relevant to the context in which I used that information, which is not the context in which you are framing it. You're making up a fake argument by using my words out of context in other words.
I said that because it's my reason for not being worried about it. It's not a danger worth being worried about because it is statistically unlikely to happen to most people.
Separate from that, I stated support for our 2A rights and verbally shat upon the idea of gun bans, because it is not logistically possible to remove them from society in the USA.
It's funny how you quoted me there and claimed i took what you said out of context and reframed it, but did the exact same thing to me by not including any of the context. Bit hypocritical...
You dont need to be worried about being shot to accept that school shootings, mass shootings, or any shootings that are done unjustly as a direct result of lax gun laws are a problem. Sure, YOU might not get shot, but it is happening in places it shouldn't be, so you should be concerned about it.
Is it that easy for you to ignore all the death? all the kids that die in schools? all the families that suffer tragedy? Just because "hur dur mA riGhTs!" The constitution was written in 1791. It was written within the context of the time, but i guess that's another thing you are happy to take out of context because it suits you, huh?
The right to bear arms allowed you to carry a fucking flintlock pistol. You aren't shooting up a fucking school with a musket when you have to load each round individually between shots.
If the founding fathers had the type of weaponry you could get today that ammendment would look VERY different.
You can pretend all you want. And i know you will.
But go ahead and tell me ive taken you out of context when you a clearly happy to do the same whenever it suits you.
Yes, actually it is pretty easy to ignore all that. It's a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the overall population. Far less than the number of people dying in accidents, which is the #4 leading cause of death in the USA. But if you watch the news, that's all they focus on because it gets eyes on their content. The boring reality that the vast majority of us experience, living in safety without encountering violence, is not able to capture anyone's attention to drive ad revenue. Usually whenever there's a newsworthy shooting, the investigations lead to mountains of red flags that the perpetrator had shown prior and the police and community around them just let it go until tragedy struck. So I wonder why those people failed their community, more than I wonder about the "evil guns" that caused it.
And back to your lame Constitution-time argument, it's worth noting that there were fully-automatic machine guns and semi-automatic rifles in use by the military at the time the Constitution was written. They were fully aware of the technology of repeating small arms, and intended for the bearing of such arms to be the right of the common man.
More people die from accidents that no one aaw coming than from firearms, so we better not do anything about firearms... thats you. That's what you sound like.
As for the automatic weapons
Heres the first link i found, and it explicitly states it wasn't used for war and doesn't match the modern definition of a machine gun https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puckle_gun
Everything else seems to be nothing like a modern machine gun.
Pretend thry had the same types of weaponry we had all you want but you are chatting absolute shit.
Sure, but that's like comparing dropping a needle and dropping a grand piano on someone's head. Its not a problem in most other countries where only the police have guns. Its... you know... rare... And taken seriously...
Oh! So we agree, police shouldnt be able to be judge judy and executioner when they suspect some poor black guy just casually sitting in his car?
The thing is that they dont need to label you anything to shoot you in the states, they just do it anyway. Until they are up against someone shooting up a school, then they just stand there and let the public deal with it...
Don't german police have to account for wssentially every bullet fired? While US cops are imitating die-hard?
How.
You really can't think of anything.
There have been solutions proposed to tighten gun restrictions or just simply to reduce the issue for decades.
There are examples of entire countries where this shit already works.
Honestly at this point saying just "how" is uninformed or disingenuous.
I'm all for licensing and registration, that isn't however reducing the total number.
Yes, in general much smaller countries with a much different culture and the fun one, fascistic countries.
It isn't, there isn't a workable solution proposed at the moment, it's insanely complex and simply saying "maybe fewer" is the answer is uninformed or disingenuous.
Nothing she could have done, but as the old saying goes: "can't corner the Dorner!"
Read the original comment again but very, very slowly.
Also, the same can be said for anti-gun people as well. I don't even talk about guns on here anymore because every time you mention them, you have a bunch of snobs from both sides looking to start a big ass fight over shit totally unrelated to the topic.
Have you ever actually applied any real world logic to this fantasy scenario of yours? It ends up with you extremely and irrevocably dead.
It's not even the being dead part. Ask yourself, "Is this the society you want? Is this how it should function?"
When forced to interact with them, do you give more respect to flies or wasps?
How exactly do you expect us to get military-grade hardware?
The fuckin' Army Surplus store dude. The local gun store. Here in America, we have access to it all.
Do we? I don't see too many APCs available for sale.
Here you go: http://www.exarmyvehicles.com/
That website offers APCs and other tank-like vehicles for sale, with international shipping offered. See their Logistics section for options.
If that's not a good option, you could always buy a Dodge monster truck like the small dick men of the USA often drive, then pay a welder to add armor plating surrounding the vulnerable areas. 1-inch steel plate should stop most small arms fire.
And how many people who need this sort of thing to fight back against police will be able to afford them and then figure out how to use them properly and then use them in a fight with the police and survive?
Very few, if we've been paying attention. Which protests/riots had more cops willing to shoot at those involved? The heavily armed 'marches' that we've seen, or the large crowds of unarmed individuals? Sure, some of that may have been because of bias from the police, but I guarantee most of it was because they were afraid of starting a shooting when there was the possibility of being shot back at.
Afghanis had no issues
Unless you count the 200,000 who died.
I mean, they DID go against almost every country around them and the US military.
That part is so obvious as to go unsaid
Yeah well they had the CIA on their side and we don't
We don't need cops. The owner class needs cops. That's why nothing will ever be done about their behavior, they aren't for us.
No.
You do need police officers and don't be so dumb to say that you don't. Unless you're 13 and trying to be edgy, in which case I'll just ask you to limit yourself to TikTok or something.
You need police against criminals, you need police to enforce the rules of our society. The problem is that US police officers are just a major shit show.
Maybe that is why so many people shout these dumb slogans because they don't even know or remember what a real actual police officer is and does.
If the laws supported the people there would be no need for cops to kill the people because there would be no conflict between the people and the laws.
Nurses serve the same clientele as cops and we don't murder our patients.
Nurses don't stop criminals either. You have different jobs. If you're a nurse then I applaud you for what you do, but if somebody threatens to kill you or a loved one, I think you want police officers to help. Are you going to stop drug trade? Kidnappings? Murders? Those are actual problems which, I think we can all agree on, must be stopped. Who ya gonna call? The Ghostbusters? Or a well trained and well regulated police force?
That last part is the issue in the US. The police there isn't well regulated, is extremely poorly educated, if at all, and if at all, half the training they get is proven bullshit. Then they're armed by the US army. It's a miracle that it isn't a bigger shit show.
Train your police. A police officer, any police officer, should have at least have higher education and on top of that 4 years specific training. Good luck finding a single police officer with that in the US right now. Teach them de-escalation. Monitor their activities with bodycams, if they very obviously cross the line, hammer down. Stop police unions standing in the way of trials for police officers. Have a national database with police officer certificates, that also tracks their history. This way, if one fucks up badly, he can't just go work somewhere else.
All those things are actual solutions. Just saying "defund the police" is just a dumb slogans that doesn't help your cause
Cops don't stop criminals. The fact that you're working from that ignorant assumption that they do shows that you've got no business talking on this subject.
You stop crime by making people less desperate, and you don't make people less desperate by threatening them with violence. You make them less desperate by making them healthier, happier, and improving their communities.
Cops arrest criminals. That's their role. The rest of the justice system handles everything else. It prevents people from commiting additional crimes by locking them up/rehabilitating them. How in this magical society you're envisioning do we stop rape? Do you think rapists are just desperate?
I envy their optimism on humanity.
Realism, perhaps?
Cops show up after the crime. The law and the cops don't prevent the rape. If you want less rapists, you have to address the problem at the systemic level, and that means changing the factors that lead up to rape. What would that entail? Dismantling toxic gender roles, increasing community, enabling access to therapy and mentor programs, giving people hope that they can determine their own futures, creating a safe space for sex workers in society, and other actions that stop the festering hatred and social rot that leads to rape.
That will never happen as long as people like you are satisfied with state sponsored violence to hide the problems in the private-prison-slavery-industrial complex.
You're an idiot. Rich people rape and commit other crimes all the time and they have access to anything they could ever need. Epstein had a goddamn island he flew girls out on his private plane for it. People in countries with better social services and sex workers still experience crime as well.
Not all poverty is monetary. Their wealth is a symptom of a poverty of mind, soul, and conscience.
And you don't blame them for that? Nothing is anyone's own fault? Every moral failing is because of external factors? Or are you just making up bullshit meanings to the word poverty so you don't have to address how wrong you are? Some people are just evil, it doesn't matter what society they're in, they will do evil shit. This is why we need a justice system to identify and dispose of them.
I do blame them for that, and for enforcing a system that worsens their own mental illness. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I'm defending horrific actions.
You have been saying this whole time that it is societies fault that people rape, murder, steal, etc. Now you're saying it's their own responsibility and they are also enforcing the system who's laws they are are breaking?? Do you even read what you're typing?
Having said that, the US justice system could use quite some fixing / a complete overhaul. But yeah, you need police. Anyone saying you don't is just living in a fantasy world.
Agreed. There's a ton of room for improvement there and I'm not against helping poor people or anything I just don't think doing so will stop crime. I know of a lot of well off people that have done criminal shit.
Ohhh boy. You need a dose of reality.
Yeah, there is something to the point where a lot of crime comes from poverty and desperation. I fully agree that those problems need MUCH more attention in places like the USA. Same goes for mental health care by the way, that is just a sad mess there.
Having said that... With all due respect, get your head out of your ass. Even in a perfect society with perfect healthcare and no poverty, there will be those that do not wish to abide by the rules society has setup. Be it rules like "stop at a red light" or "do not walk in a bank with a gun to rob it", or "do not rape my 9 year old daughter".
And you think its a great idea to just get rid of the police and that police can't stop those elements or temporarily remove them from society until they are rehabilitated? Duuuuhuuude. Get in the real world, PLEASE. Yeah, police in the US is horribly trained (if at all), overstuffed with military equipment (... for what?! fun?) corrupt as hell and just needs an overhaul in general.
But you still need police. Saying that you don't is just naive on the level of a 5 year old or just generally disingenuous.
Cops show up afterwards to bust heads. They don't diffuse situations. They don't uplift the desperate. They just use state sanctioned violence to keep the suffering out of sight while they protect the property and interests of the rich. The laws punishing rapists and murderers don't stop rape or murder. They enable it by addressing the problem on the symptom level so that it's never addressed on the systemic level. As long as it's quiet, people like you can pretend it's not happening. The only one who needs a reality check here is you.
No matter what laws you make, someone somewhere sometime is going to decide to break them. In any given society, someone will eventually get mad and try to murder someone else, or steal something, or just be a general nuisance. These people need to be dealt with. Being black, or homeless, or poor should not be a crime and should definitely not be a death sentence, but those aren't the only laws that police enforce. Try not to be loudly hyperbolic and people might actually take you seriously enough to consider your ideas.
You're programmed with authoritarian ignorance. You don't build a civilization by creating laws that oppress people into behaving. You build a civilization that works from the ground up so that people don't feel the need to kill each other for food and shelter, or the drugs they numb themselves with.
Uhhh, speaking as someone who has physically put his body in the way of cops trying to rob people of their civil rights, many times, doing so while accepting that cops do fulfill a societal need (and thus being completely non violent towards said cops), the idea that there is a utopia where "the laws" will not be in conflict with "the people" is a very, very difficult thing to even start to imagine. Can you describe such a situation, even in one instance?
If we didn't have the cops we'd have to fix the poverty that generated the crime, but since we have violent muscle to beat down on the impoverished we never will.
All violent crime isn't caused by poverty. Plenty of people who aren't impoverished do heinous things. We would need some sort of security enforcement no matter what.
The decay in our society that causes violent crime is always related to one kind of poverty or another. People raised in healthy communities with security and support don't lash out violently. Affluent killers have a poverty of the spirit caused by having more at the expense of others.
All cops are bastards.
Yeah, the fucking rot that is the police come from the top down.