All these (ad)ons always take priority over performance.
Am I the only one who doesn’t want any, “do everything,” apps? I’d rather have 10 apps that each do one thing really well than have one app that haphazardly attempts to do 10 things.
At some point we're just back to building web browsers with spyware built in.
Sooner or later there will be an API to build your own apps and systems. Then we just rebuild a webbrower, but made it worse
I see you are rebelling against Web 2.0, where you only need 3-4 apps or sites to do everything! Don't be afraid. The old days of dozens of sites is gone and now the oligarchy of megacorps will take care of you with your 2-3 apps. You'll have fewer apps that could go wrong and you'll ever need to keep up with your 1-2 apps! Eventually the FTC will see the error of their ways and your One App will truly simplify your life!
Verification cans :(
Make each program do one thing well. To do a new job, build afresh rather than complicate old programs by adding new "features".
Unix philosophy. 50 years old idea. Imo devs would love to work that way but they are never the ones making decisions. And every CEO wants to have the new everything app ala wechat.
I already have a "do everything" app.
It is called the Operating System.
It sounds to me like they're trying to go like Wechat did
If I want to shop for something online, I'll go to a website like Amazon.
If I want to transfer money online, I'll go to a website like PayPal.
I don't like the monopolizing those companies are doing, but they're at least more transparent than doing it through a chat app. Can you even do returns for chat app purchases? I did a return with Amazon the other day and they just credited my account. They didn't even ask for the book (I accidentally bought 2 copies) back.
WhatsApp is a shithole. Communities, Channels, Payments, Avatars all these destroyed the simple chat app. Meta is aiming for a monopoly here.
Signal and Telegram pretty much useless if you don't have your needful people on the platform.
Thankfully I don't have people I need on WhatsApp, but it took some convincing.
Nowadays I only have dentist and barbershop on WhatsApp, all my folks are on Telegram, including all work communications.
WhatsApp was always lacking features; WhatsApp web can't replace a full featured desktop client which is a must have for me; and its mobile client is inconvenient in every possible way.
WA does have a desktop client. Fuck that though.
Last time I checked it was a 600-800Mb monster that is just a wrapper of the web page
It's worse now, it's an all out react native app, I believe. On windows, it's hideous. Simple things such as sending attachments become a multiple-seconds-long waiting game; by the time I'm able to send a screenshot, my phone link has already transfered the clipboard from my pc to my phone, I have unlocked it and opened WhatsApp and sent the attachment through android instead. This has happened to me more times than I care to count.
There's also this nasty input focus bug, where you sometimes have to tab out of the app entirely and tab back in for it to detect focus on textboxes.
Its like they're intently taking steps back on WhatsApp as a whole, kind of reminiscent of Skype's fall from grace.
WhatsApp actually uses the native UI frameworks of each operating system on all major platforms now, meaning whatever the latest Windows UI framework is called and Swift UI on macOS. Their mobile apps natively use Material on Android and Swift UI on iOS respectively, and always have been.
I actually think it's great. One of the few service-based multi-platform apps that actually has native clients on all platforms as opposed to Electron apps or React "native" or whatever. It does this better than pretty much any other messenger (Telegram, Signal etc. on desktop are all Electron apps or similar).
I'll bail out if (or inevitably when) they add more and more bloat (like channels or this shopping stuff for example).
Fr! only reason why I prefer the webapp over client
It's just not a battle I am willing to fight. Too many people I can't contact without Whatsapp and none of them willing to swap.
Thanks to EU, you'll be able to contact these people on WhatsApp without using WhatsApp.
Great, I can't wait for Whatsapp to be the only way to reach customer support and make payments. I always felt the confused look of people when I tell them I don't have Whatsapp wasn't enough.
always felt the confused look of people when I tell them I don’t have Whatsapp wasn’t enough.
the worst part is that most people cannot fathom that you don't have Whatsapp and you want to continue not having. The confused look is because their way of thinking is "ok you don't have, so what, open an account, it's taking 10 seconds".
Same argument for installing Signal
When contractors try to get me to communicate with them on what's appropriate, I am happy to tell them that it's forbidden on company devices.
Typically that conversation started on email, which they don't want to continue using for reasons they usually can't explain well.
Today, on "Features No One Asked For".
“Features board members demanded because they increase value for shareholders”
*except nearly the entirety of India, but who cares about a country with nearly a billion customers
Whatsapp turning into WeChat should make Signal and Threema look even better.
If only people cared. Sadly, they don't.
Source: am one of probably three people in the country that refuse to use Meta CRAPWARE. And thus, very lonely.
I refuse to use anything Meta has its claws on.
Some folk do. I've managed to convince at least 10 of my friends and family to install Signal and/or Threema.
It's not just friends; I cannot do my work in my past three jobs without WhatsApp, because that's how ingrained it is. And they were varied jobs too.
Client interactions? WhatsApp
External stakeholders? WhatsApp
Public enquiries? WhatsApp
No WhatsApp, no job, no income. That's how ingrained it is.
Me too and we’re very happy with it.
Even my employer is making us only use Threema work.
Do you think 99% of the grannies and non-techies care? I support Signal and use it myself to communicate (with the 2-3 other people that use it…), but it’s not comparable with WhatsApp or Telegram which everyone has. It’s shitty but it’s reality. People even use Facebook Messenger over Signal.
Threema at 6€ is not really a good option for anyone anymore, a least not over Signal. Also they had an encryption obfuscation problem recently, read the longer comments at the bottom here and decide for yourself:
I know people who prefer Threema simply because they know what their revenue model is. Everyday I find that another person in my contacts has joined Signal. I don't communicate with too many grannies besides my own two, both of whom have Signal installed on their phones ftr. My circle clearly isn't your circle.
I feel like FOSS apps keep getting more viable while closed source apps keep getting worse. I feel like the next version of the internet is the one few know about. Even Mastodon is getting better, and Lemmy is pretty much a reddit equivalent now.
Because with nonlibre/nonfree/closed apps, user interest is never at the front. It is only considered at the beginning when apps need to gain userbase, then they can exploit it.
Every app that take away user ability to inspect, modify or share it is creating a path for abuse.
"Enshitification"
a new word added to my. dictionary
Meta adding the same features to all their apps, for whatever reason
Everybody wants to be We Chat.
And WeChat sucks. The only reason it dominates in China is because the government mandated a bunch of social control stuff to run there making it virtually mandatory just to exist in China.
Western VCs wished they could have their shitty app being mandatory.
Look at El Musk and his "X app" obsession. He wants it so bad he burned the brand he paid BILLIONS to acquire just to chase his everything app.
I think part of his plan was to quickly roll crypto into it... but then by the time he actually acquired it Crypto took a huge downturn.
even the fediverse (kinda)
not really tbh
The maturity of decentralized communication cannot come soon enough
If only there was a standards-based platform that everyone could use, supported by all telecommunications providers. Ah dammit. Probably just a pipe dream. /s
XMPP should return to reclaim its rightful role.
Back in my day, the only decentralized communication we needed was yelling from the rooftops and we turned out just fine!
You should try snikket. It can run on a 1$/month VPS and gives you and friends/family a really easy to run xmpp server. Easy for not so technical people.
Hell no lol, I'd use an actual modern service like Element.
I find it harder to use. My account has several spammer chats that I can't close for some reason etc...
You can just go into your account settings and deactivate
deactivate what?
Deactivate the account, and there's a checkmark to delete all past messages
I don't want to deactivate my account
Uh alright, you asked how to lol.
No I meant that there were conversations that spammers started, that I can't delete for some reason. So I want my account to stay, but delete those garbage convos
It’s a little hard to imagine for us Americans, but internationally WhatsApp has a thriving unofficial ecosystem of businesses operating solely out of the chat app.
I love to hate on Meta as much as the next guy on Lemmy, but this is probably one of the sounder business decisions Meta has made in awhile.
as much as the next guy on the fediverse* not everyone uses Lemmy
This is lemmy, live with it
Sure
as much as the next person* not everyone is a guy
As much as the next entity* some of us are AI
THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO KNOW THAT!
That's why I advocate for personhood for AI, some AIs are very literal and can't help themselves sticking to definitions
Why do you reply to me and not the original commenter lol
During the peak of Whatsapp Controversy, I had 50 out 450+ contacts on Signal.
Now it is just 5 people.
Signal shot it's self in the foot removing sms capabilities. Tragic.
This is US defaultism. People doesn't care about sms capabilities outside the US. The US isn't a huge market for Signal.
I think it did effect things. SMS is weirdly popular in the US (i think it's might be cause they didn't use it much in the 90s?) but people I know in France and UK still use texts for some things, even if messaging apps are where most of communication happens (French people even use mms which is insane).
I know that I managed to convince a number of tech-shy people (including parents) to get Signal by telling them replaced their sms app, so it wasn't a whole extra app / network they needed to use. It was great for me because I could ditch WhatsApp completely. But when signal stopped supporting sms they went back to just whatsapping and texting, so I cracked and reinstalled WhatsApp to keep in touch with them.
Liberia
No one I know use SMS for chat.
The last SMS I had sent was 3 years ago.
I only use SMS for some communication because the only other form of communication my phone can do is calls. But I have to be careful with that because they're paid and not unlimited.
Mostly because of the 400+ who remained on WhatsApp, the 45 of 50 decided to move back and the 5 probably are running both apps
True.
They stick to WhatsApp as all th convo goes there and it laziness to switch over, copy data and all .
Srsly I hope people will start installing Signal once again.
Don't use WhatsApp or Telegram. There are better things to use. (Signal, Session and simplex chat)
lol.
"Don't use the messaging apps used by all your friends and family. Use another app so you cant contact them. "
Man, messaging is a nightmare. I use signal with a few of my closest contacts, whatsapp with most other people, sms as a fallback and for work I have to occasionally use Teams and fucking Viber (ugh). At least I managed to liberate myself from the clutches of Slack.
If only there was some standard way to get these apps to talk to each other so everybody could use what they want. Oh wait, there was, it was called XMPP, it worked perfectly and big tech fucking killed it and replaced it with the irritating clusterfuck that is the current status quo.
Matrix with Bridges does help a lot, though.
Alternatively Beeper. (Which is Matrix with Bridges)
This is pretty much the only thing stopping me from using another app
Imagine being required to have the same app as your friend to send a message.
Then get them on a different app. Be a leader not a follower
Sure, I use Signal with some. But I will have to use WhatsApp to interact with most people. They won't switch just because I tell them to.
Luckily they don't have to switch. Your good friends from the European union have a solution for you (And the latest beta for whatsapp features the skeleton for their implementation of that standard)
Except Signal likely won't adopt that, as they already mentioned some time ago
Good. Keep cluttering the app until people move to simpler alternatives. Preferably libre.
I want out but no one in my group chats will leave. 😭
What I did was say I'm deleting my WhatsApp account in [insert sensible time] and if anyone wants to contact me, to use Signal. Lost contact to some, but many followed.
At the company’s global Conversations event in Mumbai, WhatsApp introduced an in-app shopping feature for merchants and customers. Dubbed ”Flows,” [...]
That name sounds more like a feminine hygiene product than a shopping platform.
The software enshittification cycle continues.
Are there any WhatsApp clients without all the crap noone asking for?
There soon will be because EUR turned their arm into opening the chat protocol. As soon as that happens expect other chats to be able to talk to whatsapp without the oficial app. So hopefully... Soon.
What you're linking to is about their proposition of chat control for CSAM scanning, which is a completely separate thing from the Digital Markets Act that will force big Messengers to become interoperable.
Thanks I will take a look. It looks kind of similar to matrix
Yeah very similar to Matrix or the good days of Trillian
Beeper
Great 90,000th or so on the waiting list.
This is far more likely to become the Do Everything App for the Western World than X/Twitter is.
I'm really interested how this is going to play out. I'm seeing this from a European perspective - Meta has show many times, that they shit on the GDPR. And while it seemed, that nothing really happened so far, that authorities are getting traction. Fines are racking up. The Digital Services Act and the Digital Markets Act are going to introduce more regulations, and I think that the future might hold even more surprises for Meta, especially if they succeed in build all these new things into WhatsApp.
And I just know we will be forced to use it
I was recently in Brazil and it amazes me how the country adopted the platform. You can do everything in it. And it’s not that you’re always talking to someone on the other side. It’s all automated. Remember those gigantic labyrinths of menus you had to listen when calling a business? Now it’s all in WhatsApp, but with the advantage of being much faster to read. I asked for a service in a company, they gave me a protocol number. When I wanted to check on it, I just had to type the number on WhatsApp and it would tell me if it was ready.
So, no need to develop GUI, sites, and so on. Everything is accessible through WhatsApp.
So, I understand why Meta rolled this out and started with Brazil.
In the end, it feels like we made full circle and we’re coming back to the Telnet era of doing business.
pls whatsapp stop copying from fucking telegram there should be a law to make it not possible this is killing competition
But 'Stories' are from IG, owned by Meta.. so... we rather stay quiet on this occasion xdd
Stories are the Meta's copy of snapchat.
Stories are the worst addition to Telegram. I hope Meta sue them and make them remove this feature :D
tg stories failed miserably due to being premium only tho
But I can use them just fine? Some customization options like expiration time are behind premium but it's available for everyone.
I think it was premium only for a short while before version 10
...you still can't publish stories without premium. I've only seen like one two stories so far (despite having hundreds of contacts and chats), and one of them is a telegram ad. Almost everyone gets surprised when they see the stories bubble at the top...
you can publish them (at least on iphone) without premium
first they copied it from snapchat (meta loves to copy from smaller alternatives to kill them) second they added it only people where continuing to ask them for it (me too)
I stick to Telegram. I don't want anything to do with Meta.
I stick to matrix. I want nothing to do with telegram.
I stick to XMPP. I would not mind being on Matrix but XMPP is much less bloated on my server.
Then Telegram do something bad or stupid (it already started to) and you'll have to transfer all your friends again...
That's still better than using Meta:)
By choosing the lesser evil it is only getting bigger.
Awesome, maybe then I can get everyone I know to switch to a better platform.
Yep, when Meta bought it, I warned my group friend chats that the second they start trying to monetize it, I'm going to whine until they all switch to Signal. Guess it's time to start nagging
This is kind of funny. Some of these features I would see see as Google's turf. However, since Google can't create a text messaging service, Meta can use their messaging app to encroach.
it really depends.
If it's different parts of the same system I really don't like if it gets split up to multiple apps. Take steam, there I need two apps, one for the general store and it's functions and one for communicating with my friends. In that case I'd rather would have one app that fits all.
But if I don't need several functions of an app and they are also hurting the experience with it, I'd rather would have the sourced out to other apps.
The thing is, in systems like WhatsApp we don't decide what is the best for us, but WhatsApp.
Maybe integrating some features is better, maybe separation.
Or maybe third way, separated things under one package (for example all-in-one packages like Nextcloud or Thunderbird).
Developing countries should get their act together and stop using WhatsApp.
By "developing countries", do you mean "most of the world outside the US"? Because WhatsApp is used extensively in Europe as well. Which means you're either ignorant, condescending, or both.
I meant countries like India, Brazil etc. They heavily use WhatsApp mostly because people are illiterate and poor. People use WhatsApp in Europe but not as much when compared to India.
I don't think the majority of the populace...anywhere makes app decisions based on morality. WhatsApp is basically nonexistent in USA and Canada (and while Facebook and Instagram are present they are far from omnipresent) but I don't think it has anything to do with people making informed decisions about the moral issues with tech companies.
Are you saying there's a relation between the use of Whatsapp and education or economic levels of a country?
What are you on about?
I am saying if you're not educated you cannot take educated decisions such as people dont know what's Facebook capable of. Look at the killings, riot and coup in Myanmar, india etc.That's just one example but there's many more.
WhatsApp and Facebook are defaults apps on all the phones so people who don't know much just start using the app but people who know about collection of data, people being manipulated, fake news will avoid using WhatsApp , Facebook etc.
This contrived correlation you're trying to establish just doesn't hold up to the statistics or common sense.
In every country there are individuals who value digital privacy and/or security.
The truth is, these individuals are the minority in virtually every case. The majority of the population, irregardless of overall education or social status, just doesn't care enough to act upon the compromises necessary for a more private and secure digital life, instead opting for the more convenient way of doing things.
People in general just love having easy access to online services, and oversharing their information, either with Big Tech, or their peers over social media. That's just human behavior.
Education could perhaps bring consciousness about this issue, but it's most often the product of an individual concern. And this just can't be simply related the way you're insisting here.
There are no digital privacy/security classes in the structured general education on "more developed" countries. At least not contrasting with the lack thereof on the "least developed" countries in a statistically meaningful way.
We're getting used to seeing the EU having to step in and legislate against or punish corporations on their abuse of customer data, just for that same legislation not to encounter an equivalent on the United States, or other "more developed" countries.
You gave the example of the coup in Mianmar, and the role of social media manipulation though fake news, and so on.
Do you really think people in Mianmar, or India are more manipulated by these apps than, say, people in the UK, Germany, or Switzerland?
Have you ever tried to talk about geopolitical events with the average Joe in Denmark? How about in the USA?
You could have searched for fakenews whatsapp before writing. Here read this
So, are these articles supposed to support your argument?
Because they do the exact opposite.
Or have you completely missed the point?
Care to explain?
Nah, you figure it out yourself.
🤷♂️
Do u think most people in first world countries know these things?
Most people, Yes
In 2022, 75% of UK Internet users and 80% of Hong Kong internet users used WhatsApp (just do a search for "WhatsApp usage in Hong kong/uk"). Would you call these global financial hubs poor and illiterate countries?
I hate Facebook as much as the average lemmy user (lemming?), but let's not pretend that everyone makes decisions based on the company's reputation.
I'm in the UK and have it but literally none of my contacts use it except the local dog daycare that use it to send pictures. So according to stats I 'use' it but not really
Facebook messenger is fairly big (almost everyone is on it mainly because they all have Facebook accounts) and I know a lot on Signal (they all moved from Telegram because Russia, which I thought was an overreaction but no choice but to follow).
I'm in the uk and it's not uncommon to never end up texting people on WhatsApp but in my experience almost everyone I've met has it
Am I the only one who doesn’t want any, “do everything,” apps? I’d rather have 10 apps that each do one thing really well than have one app that haphazardly attempts to do 10 things.
At some point we're just back to building web browsers with spyware built in.
Sooner or later there will be an API to build your own apps and systems. Then we just rebuild a webbrower, but made it worse
I see you are rebelling against Web 2.0, where you only need 3-4 apps or sites to do everything! Don't be afraid. The old days of dozens of sites is gone and now the oligarchy of megacorps will take care of you with your 2-3 apps. You'll have fewer apps that could go wrong and you'll ever need to keep up with your 1-2 apps! Eventually the FTC will see the error of their ways and your One App will truly simplify your life!
Verification cans :(
Unix philosophy. 50 years old idea. Imo devs would love to work that way but they are never the ones making decisions. And every CEO wants to have the new everything app ala wechat.
I already have a "do everything" app.
It is called the Operating System.
It sounds to me like they're trying to go like Wechat did
If I want to shop for something online, I'll go to a website like Amazon.
If I want to transfer money online, I'll go to a website like PayPal.
I don't like the monopolizing those companies are doing, but they're at least more transparent than doing it through a chat app. Can you even do returns for chat app purchases? I did a return with Amazon the other day and they just credited my account. They didn't even ask for the book (I accidentally bought 2 copies) back.
WhatsApp is a shithole. Communities, Channels, Payments, Avatars all these destroyed the simple chat app. Meta is aiming for a monopoly here.
Signal and Telegram pretty much useless if you don't have your needful people on the platform.
Thankfully I don't have people I need on WhatsApp, but it took some convincing.
Nowadays I only have dentist and barbershop on WhatsApp, all my folks are on Telegram, including all work communications.
WhatsApp was always lacking features; WhatsApp web can't replace a full featured desktop client which is a must have for me; and its mobile client is inconvenient in every possible way.
WA does have a desktop client. Fuck that though.
Last time I checked it was a 600-800Mb monster that is just a wrapper of the web page
It's worse now, it's an all out react native app, I believe. On windows, it's hideous. Simple things such as sending attachments become a multiple-seconds-long waiting game; by the time I'm able to send a screenshot, my phone link has already transfered the clipboard from my pc to my phone, I have unlocked it and opened WhatsApp and sent the attachment through android instead. This has happened to me more times than I care to count.
There's also this nasty input focus bug, where you sometimes have to tab out of the app entirely and tab back in for it to detect focus on textboxes.
Its like they're intently taking steps back on WhatsApp as a whole, kind of reminiscent of Skype's fall from grace.
WhatsApp actually uses the native UI frameworks of each operating system on all major platforms now, meaning whatever the latest Windows UI framework is called and Swift UI on macOS. Their mobile apps natively use Material on Android and Swift UI on iOS respectively, and always have been.
I actually think it's great. One of the few service-based multi-platform apps that actually has native clients on all platforms as opposed to Electron apps or React "native" or whatever. It does this better than pretty much any other messenger (Telegram, Signal etc. on desktop are all Electron apps or similar).
I'll bail out if (or inevitably when) they add more and more bloat (like channels or this shopping stuff for example).
Fr! only reason why I prefer the webapp over client
It's just not a battle I am willing to fight. Too many people I can't contact without Whatsapp and none of them willing to swap.
Thanks to EU, you'll be able to contact these people on WhatsApp without using WhatsApp.
https://techcrunch.com/2023/09/11/whatsapp-has-started-work-on-cross-platform-messaging-due-to-eu-regulation/
That's great to know!
Great, I can't wait for Whatsapp to be the only way to reach customer support and make payments. I always felt the confused look of people when I tell them I don't have Whatsapp wasn't enough.
the worst part is that most people cannot fathom that you don't have Whatsapp and you want to continue not having. The confused look is because their way of thinking is "ok you don't have, so what, open an account, it's taking 10 seconds".
Same argument for installing Signal
When contractors try to get me to communicate with them on what's appropriate, I am happy to tell them that it's forbidden on company devices.
Typically that conversation started on email, which they don't want to continue using for reasons they usually can't explain well.
Today, on "Features No One Asked For".
“Features board members demanded because they increase value for shareholders”
*except nearly the entirety of India, but who cares about a country with nearly a billion customers
Whatsapp turning into WeChat should make Signal and Threema look even better.
If only people cared. Sadly, they don't.
Source: am one of probably three people in the country that refuse to use Meta CRAPWARE. And thus, very lonely.
I refuse to use anything Meta has its claws on.
Some folk do. I've managed to convince at least 10 of my friends and family to install Signal and/or Threema.
It's not just friends; I cannot do my work in my past three jobs without WhatsApp, because that's how ingrained it is. And they were varied jobs too.
Client interactions? WhatsApp
External stakeholders? WhatsApp
Public enquiries? WhatsApp
No WhatsApp, no job, no income. That's how ingrained it is.
Me too and we’re very happy with it.
Even my employer is making us only use Threema work.
Do you think 99% of the grannies and non-techies care? I support Signal and use it myself to communicate (with the 2-3 other people that use it…), but it’s not comparable with WhatsApp or Telegram which everyone has. It’s shitty but it’s reality. People even use Facebook Messenger over Signal.
Threema at 6€ is not really a good option for anyone anymore, a least not over Signal. Also they had an encryption obfuscation problem recently, read the longer comments at the bottom here and decide for yourself:
https://reddit.com/r/privacy/s/edgSH00aCu
I know people who prefer Threema simply because they know what their revenue model is. Everyday I find that another person in my contacts has joined Signal. I don't communicate with too many grannies besides my own two, both of whom have Signal installed on their phones ftr. My circle clearly isn't your circle.
I feel like FOSS apps keep getting more viable while closed source apps keep getting worse. I feel like the next version of the internet is the one few know about. Even Mastodon is getting better, and Lemmy is pretty much a reddit equivalent now.
Because with nonlibre/nonfree/closed apps, user interest is never at the front. It is only considered at the beginning when apps need to gain userbase, then they can exploit it.
Every app that take away user ability to inspect, modify or share it is creating a path for abuse.
"Enshitification"
a new word added to my. dictionary
Meta adding the same features to all their apps, for whatever reason
Everybody wants to be We Chat.
And WeChat sucks. The only reason it dominates in China is because the government mandated a bunch of social control stuff to run there making it virtually mandatory just to exist in China.
Western VCs wished they could have their shitty app being mandatory.
Look at El Musk and his "X app" obsession. He wants it so bad he burned the brand he paid BILLIONS to acquire just to chase his everything app.
I think part of his plan was to quickly roll crypto into it... but then by the time he actually acquired it Crypto took a huge downturn.
even the fediverse (kinda)
not really tbh
The maturity of decentralized communication cannot come soon enough
If only there was a standards-based platform that everyone could use, supported by all telecommunications providers. Ah dammit. Probably just a pipe dream. /s
XMPP should return to reclaim its rightful role.
Back in my day, the only decentralized communication we needed was yelling from the rooftops and we turned out just fine!
You should try snikket. It can run on a 1$/month VPS and gives you and friends/family a really easy to run xmpp server. Easy for not so technical people.
Hell no lol, I'd use an actual modern service like Element.
I find it harder to use. My account has several spammer chats that I can't close for some reason etc...
You can just go into your account settings and deactivate
deactivate what?
Deactivate the account, and there's a checkmark to delete all past messages
I don't want to deactivate my account
Uh alright, you asked how to lol.
No I meant that there were conversations that spammers started, that I can't delete for some reason. So I want my account to stay, but delete those garbage convos
It’s a little hard to imagine for us Americans, but internationally WhatsApp has a thriving unofficial ecosystem of businesses operating solely out of the chat app.
I love to hate on Meta as much as the next guy on Lemmy, but this is probably one of the sounder business decisions Meta has made in awhile.
as much as the next guy on the fediverse* not everyone uses Lemmy
This is lemmy, live with it
Sure
as much as the next person* not everyone is a guy
As much as the next entity* some of us are AI
THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO KNOW THAT!
That's why I advocate for personhood for AI, some AIs are very literal and can't help themselves sticking to definitions
Why do you reply to me and not the original commenter lol
During the peak of Whatsapp Controversy, I had 50 out 450+ contacts on Signal. Now it is just 5 people.
Signal shot it's self in the foot removing sms capabilities. Tragic.
This is US defaultism. People doesn't care about sms capabilities outside the US. The US isn't a huge market for Signal.
I think it did effect things. SMS is weirdly popular in the US (i think it's might be cause they didn't use it much in the 90s?) but people I know in France and UK still use texts for some things, even if messaging apps are where most of communication happens (French people even use mms which is insane).
I know that I managed to convince a number of tech-shy people (including parents) to get Signal by telling them replaced their sms app, so it wasn't a whole extra app / network they needed to use. It was great for me because I could ditch WhatsApp completely. But when signal stopped supporting sms they went back to just whatsapping and texting, so I cracked and reinstalled WhatsApp to keep in touch with them.
Liberia
No one I know use SMS for chat. The last SMS I had sent was 3 years ago.
I only use SMS for some communication because the only other form of communication my phone can do is calls. But I have to be careful with that because they're paid and not unlimited.
Mostly because of the 400+ who remained on WhatsApp, the 45 of 50 decided to move back and the 5 probably are running both apps
True. They stick to WhatsApp as all th convo goes there and it laziness to switch over, copy data and all .
Srsly I hope people will start installing Signal once again.
Don't use WhatsApp or Telegram. There are better things to use. (Signal, Session and simplex chat)
lol. "Don't use the messaging apps used by all your friends and family. Use another app so you cant contact them. "
Man, messaging is a nightmare. I use signal with a few of my closest contacts, whatsapp with most other people, sms as a fallback and for work I have to occasionally use Teams and fucking Viber (ugh). At least I managed to liberate myself from the clutches of Slack.
If only there was some standard way to get these apps to talk to each other so everybody could use what they want. Oh wait, there was, it was called XMPP, it worked perfectly and big tech fucking killed it and replaced it with the irritating clusterfuck that is the current status quo.
Matrix with Bridges does help a lot, though. Alternatively Beeper. (Which is Matrix with Bridges)
This is pretty much the only thing stopping me from using another app
Imagine being required to have the same app as your friend to send a message.
Then get them on a different app. Be a leader not a follower
Sure, I use Signal with some. But I will have to use WhatsApp to interact with most people. They won't switch just because I tell them to.
Luckily they don't have to switch. Your good friends from the European union have a solution for you (And the latest beta for whatsapp features the skeleton for their implementation of that standard)
Except Signal likely won't adopt that, as they already mentioned some time ago
All hail the European union
Wire..?
Good. Keep cluttering the app until people move to simpler alternatives. Preferably libre.
I want out but no one in my group chats will leave. 😭
What I did was say I'm deleting my WhatsApp account in [insert sensible time] and if anyone wants to contact me, to use Signal. Lost contact to some, but many followed.
That name sounds more like a feminine hygiene product than a shopping platform.
The software enshittification cycle continues.
Are there any WhatsApp clients without all the crap noone asking for?
There soon will be because EUR turned their arm into opening the chat protocol. As soon as that happens expect other chats to be able to talk to whatsapp without the oficial app. So hopefully... Soon.
That EU proposal is definitely not good. I don't know what you've read but it practice it will require to ban all open source chat applications https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/2/1/eu-chat-control-law-will-ban-open-source-operating-systems/
What you're linking to is about their proposition of chat control for CSAM scanning, which is a completely separate thing from the Digital Markets Act that will force big Messengers to become interoperable.
you're actually right. I had merged these 2 in my head because of the other issue that arises from this requirement which will affect the security of the apps, especially in apps that work with e2e encryption. e2e interoperability is kinda impossible to be implemented especially in the current deadlines. You can read more about it here https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/04/eu-digital-markets-acts-interoperability-rule-addresses-important-need-raises
If only there were good, open standards everyone could use, right?
lmao, no no, the proprietary standards that one company uses are much better than the proprietary standards of their competitor. Everyone knows that!
I read an article about. Here is another one. Doesn't seem to mention any of the effects on Foss software so I might be out of the loop.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/24/22995431/european-union-digital-markets-act-imessage-whatsapp-interoperable
Check out Beeper https://beeper.com/
Thanks I will take a look. It looks kind of similar to matrix
Yeah very similar to Matrix or the good days of Trillian
Great 90,000th or so on the waiting list.
This is far more likely to become the Do Everything App for the Western World than X/Twitter is.
I'm really interested how this is going to play out. I'm seeing this from a European perspective - Meta has show many times, that they shit on the GDPR. And while it seemed, that nothing really happened so far, that authorities are getting traction. Fines are racking up. The Digital Services Act and the Digital Markets Act are going to introduce more regulations, and I think that the future might hold even more surprises for Meta, especially if they succeed in build all these new things into WhatsApp.
And I just know we will be forced to use it
I was recently in Brazil and it amazes me how the country adopted the platform. You can do everything in it. And it’s not that you’re always talking to someone on the other side. It’s all automated. Remember those gigantic labyrinths of menus you had to listen when calling a business? Now it’s all in WhatsApp, but with the advantage of being much faster to read. I asked for a service in a company, they gave me a protocol number. When I wanted to check on it, I just had to type the number on WhatsApp and it would tell me if it was ready. So, no need to develop GUI, sites, and so on. Everything is accessible through WhatsApp.
So, I understand why Meta rolled this out and started with Brazil.
In the end, it feels like we made full circle and we’re coming back to the Telnet era of doing business.
pls whatsapp stop copying from fucking telegram there should be a law to make it not possible this is killing competition
But 'Stories' are from IG, owned by Meta.. so... we rather stay quiet on this occasion xdd
Stories are the Meta's copy of snapchat.
Stories are the worst addition to Telegram. I hope Meta sue them and make them remove this feature :D
tg stories failed miserably due to being premium only tho
But I can use them just fine? Some customization options like expiration time are behind premium but it's available for everyone.
I think it was premium only for a short while before version 10
...you still can't publish stories without premium. I've only seen like one two stories so far (despite having hundreds of contacts and chats), and one of them is a telegram ad. Almost everyone gets surprised when they see the stories bubble at the top...
you can publish them (at least on iphone) without premium
first they copied it from snapchat (meta loves to copy from smaller alternatives to kill them) second they added it only people where continuing to ask them for it (me too)
I stick to Telegram. I don't want anything to do with Meta.
I stick to matrix. I want nothing to do with telegram.
I stick to XMPP. I would not mind being on Matrix but XMPP is much less bloated on my server.
I stick to pigeons.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers
That's neither of OSI Layers lol
Then Telegram do something bad or stupid (it already started to) and you'll have to transfer all your friends again...
That's still better than using Meta:)
By choosing the lesser evil it is only getting bigger.
Awesome, maybe then I can get everyone I know to switch to a better platform.
Yep, when Meta bought it, I warned my group friend chats that the second they start trying to monetize it, I'm going to whine until they all switch to Signal. Guess it's time to start nagging
This is kind of funny. Some of these features I would see see as Google's turf. However, since Google can't create a text messaging service, Meta can use their messaging app to encroach.
it really depends.
If it's different parts of the same system I really don't like if it gets split up to multiple apps. Take steam, there I need two apps, one for the general store and it's functions and one for communicating with my friends. In that case I'd rather would have one app that fits all.
But if I don't need several functions of an app and they are also hurting the experience with it, I'd rather would have the sourced out to other apps.
The thing is, in systems like WhatsApp we don't decide what is the best for us, but WhatsApp.
Maybe integrating some features is better, maybe separation. Or maybe third way, separated things under one package (for example all-in-one packages like Nextcloud or Thunderbird).
Developing countries should get their act together and stop using WhatsApp.
By "developing countries", do you mean "most of the world outside the US"? Because WhatsApp is used extensively in Europe as well. Which means you're either ignorant, condescending, or both.
I meant countries like India, Brazil etc. They heavily use WhatsApp mostly because people are illiterate and poor. People use WhatsApp in Europe but not as much when compared to India.
I don't think the majority of the populace...anywhere makes app decisions based on morality. WhatsApp is basically nonexistent in USA and Canada (and while Facebook and Instagram are present they are far from omnipresent) but I don't think it has anything to do with people making informed decisions about the moral issues with tech companies.
Are you saying there's a relation between the use of Whatsapp and education or economic levels of a country? What are you on about?
I am saying if you're not educated you cannot take educated decisions such as people dont know what's Facebook capable of. Look at the killings, riot and coup in Myanmar, india etc.That's just one example but there's many more. WhatsApp and Facebook are defaults apps on all the phones so people who don't know much just start using the app but people who know about collection of data, people being manipulated, fake news will avoid using WhatsApp , Facebook etc.
This contrived correlation you're trying to establish just doesn't hold up to the statistics or common sense.
In every country there are individuals who value digital privacy and/or security.
The truth is, these individuals are the minority in virtually every case. The majority of the population, irregardless of overall education or social status, just doesn't care enough to act upon the compromises necessary for a more private and secure digital life, instead opting for the more convenient way of doing things.
People in general just love having easy access to online services, and oversharing their information, either with Big Tech, or their peers over social media. That's just human behavior.
Education could perhaps bring consciousness about this issue, but it's most often the product of an individual concern. And this just can't be simply related the way you're insisting here.
There are no digital privacy/security classes in the structured general education on "more developed" countries. At least not contrasting with the lack thereof on the "least developed" countries in a statistically meaningful way.
We're getting used to seeing the EU having to step in and legislate against or punish corporations on their abuse of customer data, just for that same legislation not to encounter an equivalent on the United States, or other "more developed" countries.
You gave the example of the coup in Mianmar, and the role of social media manipulation though fake news, and so on.
Do you really think people in Mianmar, or India are more manipulated by these apps than, say, people in the UK, Germany, or Switzerland?
Have you ever tried to talk about geopolitical events with the average Joe in Denmark? How about in the USA?
You could have searched for fakenews whatsapp before writing. Here read this
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/21/how-misinformation-whatsapp-led-deathly-mob-lynching-india/
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/06/rohingya-sue-facebook-myanmar-genocide-us-uk-legal-action-social-media-violence
https://time.com/5949210/facebook-misinformation-2020-election-report/
So, are these articles supposed to support your argument? Because they do the exact opposite.
Or have you completely missed the point?
Care to explain?
Nah, you figure it out yourself.
🤷♂️
Do u think most people in first world countries know these things?
Most people, Yes
In 2022, 75% of UK Internet users and 80% of Hong Kong internet users used WhatsApp (just do a search for "WhatsApp usage in Hong kong/uk"). Would you call these global financial hubs poor and illiterate countries?
I hate Facebook as much as the average lemmy user (lemming?), but let's not pretend that everyone makes decisions based on the company's reputation.
I'm in the UK and have it but literally none of my contacts use it except the local dog daycare that use it to send pictures. So according to stats I 'use' it but not really
Facebook messenger is fairly big (almost everyone is on it mainly because they all have Facebook accounts) and I know a lot on Signal (they all moved from Telegram because Russia, which I thought was an overreaction but no choice but to follow).
I'm in the uk and it's not uncommon to never end up texting people on WhatsApp but in my experience almost everyone I've met has it