Ramaswamy Claims ‘Faith-Based Approaches’ Are ‘Better Ways’ to Treat Mental Illness Than Medication
He gets so close-
Violent crime has risen over precisely the period we have shuttered these psychiatric institutions. And you know what? The number one psychiatric institution today is jail. It’s prison. And they don’t do a very good job. And now you then get the calls to clear the jails or to have commuting of sentences or shortening of sentences. People leave those jails in a worse psychiatric condition, often, than when they even entered.
Yes! Yes!
We can do this again learning from past mistakes without those abuses. I don’t think I want to be pumping psychiatric institutions with pharmaceuticals into people.
Seems reasonable.
Faith-based approaches – there are better ways to do this.
Oh for fuck's sake.
And, of course, the ironic thing is that Ramaswamy is a pharma bro.
Ramasmarmy saying whatever he thinks the Republican base wants to hear. So weird seeing him bet all in on a base that despises him.
He hasn't figured out that he will never win because he isn't white
He probably considers himself white since he isn’t a black man meanwhile the republicans will never see him as anything but non-white. It’s similar thought processes to the South American neo nazis.
We had a Sri Lankan family friend who got incensed when anyone suggested he wasn't white. It was odd.
He's making the play for token vice president
He's not even a Christian
It's working so far for him. He's the rising star in the party. I'm sure there is a portion of the republican electorate that would like to vote for a brown person so they can use it as "evidence" that they aren't racist. Just like when they claimed racism was over when Obama got elected.
This He's just trying to get a buzzword the religious right can latch onto.
I bet he's not even a Christian
He is Hindu, I thought.
That’s fucking dumb, people kill each other over religion every single day in staggering numbers. Maybe they can institute a program that has speakers from the IRA and the Taliban come in to talk about strong faith.
I cant believe grown adults believe in fairy tales, it’s absolute insanity.
At the end of Peter Pan, the Lost Boys along with Wendy and the other kids are tied to a mast while Captain Hook monologues at them. Peter has pushed Tinkerbell away, and she's fading out of existence. It seems all hope is lost.
But then Peter gets an idea and begins to chant. "I do believe in fairies, I do, I do." Soon, they're all chanting it together. "I DO believe in fairies! I DO I DO!"
And Tinkerbell pops back into existence to save the day. This is what faith is. The idea that if you believe in something hard enough it will pop into existence.
Of course, it's a fantasy story for children. I can't believe grown adults think it's true, either. It's absolute insanity, agreed. But that's where Republicans have to meet their constituents, who apparently live in Never Never Land.
This guy is an even bigger shill than Turd Cruz. He made his money in pharma, his wife is a physician. And yet here he is shilling for FaiTH BaSeD CuRE.
Fuck off Vivek
Ironically, his name means conscience.
He's got none.
Fuck George W Bush forever for popularizing "faith based" as a euphemism for people forcing their religion on others.
Religion is a mental illness.
Religion is about control and people exploiting this are 100% sane and know exactly what they're doing. That's the scary part.
Turns out that if you can convince people that unless they behave in a certain way and follow a specific set of rules, they'll be dropped into a burning lake of fire when they die, they are pretty easy to manipulate.
Just what we need, another fake ass politician, billionaire, douche bag lying to Christians.
So you treat mental illness with another form of mental illness?
Religion is not an issue itself (I am religious myself) but the misuse of it is the problem (but yeah, nah, medicine is the way) 🙂
The whole premise of religion is that it exploits willful ignorance to exert control
Religion is like everything else, it would be much better if you would just remove the human element.
God should have kept with the angels lmao
If he stayed away from married women it would have solved a lot more.
Belief in fake gods has never been the solution.
I'm so sick of these narcissistic cunts who will say and do virtually anything for attention and graft.
YOU started a pharmaceutical company. Shut the fuck up. Your face is as big as Charlie's. Seriously, there must be some sort of correlation between right-wing vitriol and small faces because holy fuck.
lol. Nobody trusts a right winger.
Lmao I read that as right whinger at first
Still apt
So now these dipshits are unironically and very seriously borrowing from the Scientology playbook…? And here I thought religion in America couldn’t get any worse.
Only someone who is (probably) comfortably insulated from the reality that real people face in crises could say something so inane
Moron.
It’s kind of like the joke “if alternative medicine worked, it would just be called medicine”.
A faith-based approach could also be called a hypothesis-based approach: the only thing that distinguishes it from a scientific approach is that it is a hypothesis that either hasn’t been tested or has failed the scientific method.
A hypothesis must be falsifiable, which anything faith-based is not (the whole point is belief without evidence), so it cannot be called a hypothesis-based approach. It's not that it has not been tested or has failed testing. It cannot be tested by definition.
I was thinking you could test whether a faith-based approach accomplishes what it is supposed to accomplish, but you’re right, my characterization of it as hypothesis-based, even though I meant it facetiously, ignores your important point
Vivek is wrong. Mental health should be taken seriously.
What a fucking idiot
Bruh isn't his wife a doctor lmao
So his big plan is to just tell everyone, "Y'all need Jesus!"?
Apparently. Except he's a Hindu, so who knows?
He's a pick-me. It's still Jesus.
It always amuses me when people try to recommend faith or faith based healing to cure their medical or mental health problems.
How is faith based healing any different from using the placebo effect on someone by giving them a sugar pill and telling them it'll help cure their illness? Only difference I can see is you are replacing the pill with God, another placebo.
It's worse because it attributes any improvement to God instead of you or statistical noise.
Sick that they would blatantly lie to try and increase conversions.
He’s worse than being a card-carrying member of the religious right, he’s an ass-kissing suck-up to the religious right.
Sir you have a minority religion in this country. Do you think religion is irrelevant to this or are you hoping a bunch of Americans get shipped off to Vishnu camp when we get depressed?
So we can safely infer he's not appropriately medicated? That explains a lot.
Isn't he s pharma guy?
Seems not to be the greatest salesman from my point of view. Unless he sells faith in a vial.
He's selling himself for a job in Trump's cabinet, so he's a better salesman than you think. He's already rich off the pharma investments. I just like the irony.
Yeah, but this isn't a job he got yet. And greedy assholes are never rich enough, they need more.
You know, we have a term for alternative medicines that have been shown to have a positive effect on patient and are backed up with evidence. That term is called, medicine.
https://youtu.be/HhGuXCuDb1U
"Faith-based" is the weasel word here, insert your meaning. The reductive correlation of violent crime rising as psychiatric institutions shuttered leaves out the economic context. Public healthcare isn't on the table, this is just redistributing the effects of not having proper care available for everyone and claiming it's a solution. "Let the churches deal with it instead of the prison system." Is he advocating we decriminalize and reduce sentencing? Are churches in a position to hide/harbor what the law determines to be a criminal? No talk of re-allocating police budgets.
I mean I'm not going to tell my friend with Asperger's that he should abandon his accepting church community. I blame the fact that our economic system deems him as a worthless burden, unless laws are in place that force employers to treat him with the same dignity as everyone else and accommodate him. The fact he can't access a career a "normal" person could is a huge part of the problem.
Oh, is this the insufferable a-hole trying to out-crazy Trump and still polling almost dead last?
He admits that people with mental health disabilities are just locked up in prisons and not given help (true), but then says let's bring back insane asylums and not give them medication or therapy, just let Jesus take the wheel.
To anybody who thinks this is a good idea, if Jesus could cure them of their mental afflictions, you wouldn't need the insane asylums to begin with.
What he is describing is a just prison system by another name.
Who?
He is just afraid the temples are running empty
Not engaging with anymore republiQan horse-race crap. It doesn’t help, they’re obviously way past even discussing and it only serves the Murdochian Evils to talk about them.
So, No.
I think he has a fringe right wing bingo card he's trying to fill out.
tbh he isn't entirely wrong wrt depression and anxiety, but that mindset is dying - I literally can't have a faith based approach to mental illness because I know better.
I'm sure people who can actually put their faith in God's will and plan or whatever can find solace, that's literally what people did for thousands of years and why religion was invented, but that's not an option for me.
No, he is objectively wrong.
People who actually believe in that stuff can really just put their faith in God that things will be okay and He will protect them and that He loves them.
It doesn't work if you know better, which is why it can never work for me. Probably not for most people, even. God is dead and we killed Him
Believing in a higher power that’s responsible for things you can’t control can help but obviously that’s not what he’s talking about. The faith based help republicans want is to force their belief of god on people. A god that judges you which definitely won’t help anxiety.
That's my point - his faith based approach is worthless for me because I know better. God is evil and God is dead, so there's no faith based approach for me.
He'd try to force me anyway, of course.
Depression and anxiety management is a thing. It helps to have medication, but it absolutely is not a cure-all. It takes years of practice to manage this stuff effectively. Believe me, I know. Even with medication, it took me years to learn how to manage my own head.
Sometimes, our bodies and minds are simply just broken and the damage can't be wished away. Drugs can be an excellent crutch to help people live a normal life without the need to dedicate all of their precious time on this planet to healing.
Religion is also a crutch - that's why it was invented. For people who actually believe in that garbage it totally works.
Most people don't, including people who claim to be religious
I actually believe that religion was mainly born out of the fear of death. Death is a scary thing and people need to find purpose somehow. Religion is an easy out in that regard.
Prayer should be called what it really is: Meditation. Meditation subject or religion of choice aside, meditation has the potential to be healthy. Everyone needs to take time and reflect on the difficult things in their life in a healthy way.
The concept of religion to the common man or woman seems great! Do good; Feel good. Pay your tithe like a good boy or girl and you get a ticket to a trillion virgins in an afterlife, or whatever. It's only a good concept until you start looping in magic and subservience.
Other humans quickly discovered that if they start dictating what a religion is, they get to scare people into subservience because of the fear of death and being sent to hell for eternity. The original concept of religion being a good thing simply degrades into a method of control.
My point is that it is dangerous to take a person that is going through a mental crisis and point them in the direction of a religion. If it truly makes them happy and humble, cool. However, churches prey on the vulnerable by nature and it's the equivalent of sending a hen directly into the foxes den. The problem is, is that if you take a person that is in pain and promise them relief via deity and they find the illusion of a cure, you have broken and their mind and they are now willing to believe any old bullshit.
Religion is way more than a crutch, my friend. It is way more devious than that.
It's only dangerous if they get wrapped up in a fucked up religion or a cult or something.
Recovery from depression usually involves finding activities the person finds fulfilling and meaningful. This is why faith based recovery works. However, It's mostly because you're placing worthwhile meaning in an activity that is giving you purpose to let your mind heal. It is about having a regimented schedule, like attending church on Sundays, praying before meals, attending church functions.
We use the same kind of techniques in therapy based recovery too and we encourage our clients to attend church if they want to for that very reason. Faith is an excellent tool if it drives you toward being well. Again, it just has more to do with what you find meaning in and what gets you up and going. For some people, it's going for a jog, for others it's working out, for some it's faith.
I used to think that faith in a religion could be a healthy method of recovery. Unfortunately, after much thought, I believe that it is just a quick
solutionbandaid for things like addiction and other types of mental crisis that has the potential to do more harm than good in the long run.Having been through various rehabilitation programs for alcohol, I did believe for a long time that faith in something like a religion could help. Unfortunately, there is a large subset of people that will quickly get disillusioned very quickly once their mind starts to heal from whatever.
Once I learned that life just is and death just is, it helped me accept everything for what it is. Soon after, I learned I had complete control over all of my decisions. I found my own inner peace, in a way. Once that happened, I had no reason to slowly kill myself anymore with booze.
My point is that pointing someone in the direction of their version inner peace is good. Using religion to do that is dangerous as you are pointing a vulnerable person in the direction of establishments that exist to exploit people.
Having faith that there is a Purpose for you and you are Loved and that you are not Alone is, itself, powerful beyond just simple habit and ritual. People who actually believe in God can really just put their faith in Him and really be comforted by it.
That's nice for them. Worthless for me
While it is true that medication does not fix mental illness. Huge studies came out blowing those meds out of the water. I think diet, lifestlye, and spiritual life is best way to move forward. Most ppl do not have mental illness, they have been dragged into the cult of Big Pharma
Diet, lifestyle and spiritual life will definitely stop a bipolar person from being delusional during a manic phase.
Believed magic was real from years of untreated mania.
Now I'm depressed because I know reality isn't what I knew.
This is the dumbest shit I've ever read
this won't be popular to the "better living through chemistry" folks on lemmy, and Reddit. except for the fact that mental health issues are at an all time high, and so are prescriptions. so no one is actually better because of them. while it is proven that people engaged in faith activities have better mental health outcomes.
People engaged with community activities have better mental health outcomes... because they have people who care about them that they see regularly and the support structures that come with that. The community doesn't hane to be faith-based, though many are. It could be volunteering at an animal rescue, in-person gaming-oriented activities like board games or TTRPGs, a cycling group... Anything that gets you out and helps make friends and connect you to other people.
for sure that's true, but the data does actually show faith based activities have even better outcomes. it's not just a coincidence. to be fair this is very hard to study. but at least anecdotally, people who have beliefs and organize around them always strike me as the happiest.
Is it "data shows...better outcomes" or "anecdotally..."? Those don't mean the same thing. If you've got sources, please share.
not going to google search for you, but it was Pew research center
In any discussion or debate, the burden of proof is on you.
You need to do the googling as no one cares about your opinion as much as you.
Have a point? Claim there is data? Back it up yourself or go home.
its the internet. im not going to waste a bunch of time doing research for you. you can either go to the Pew center or not. If you were interested you would. If you aren't interested, why do you care?
Not gonna shill pedophile religions but community based approach is most def better than giving people shiti drugz
Yes, the 'community approach' will definitely treat schizophrenia better than drugs. For sure.
Yes bring up one example ... Win a point.
Most mentally illness I not severe enough for medication and can be de escalated before drugging people is necessary
Well I could give you the entire DSMV instead, but I thought one example would make my point quite well.
Please provide evidence that "most" mental illness is not severe enough for medication. Is this based on your professional medical opinion?
What is the most common mental disorder?
Being religious
Pedophilia is crime tho
Non sequitur
Not sure I am following...
You said religion is mental disorder, I highlighted that they suffer from pedophilia which is a a mental disorder and a crime
Can you clarify how that is not relavent?
"they suffer from pedophilia" is a (intentional ) misunderstanding of MY point because you want to make am edgy childish all religious people are pedos joke
Further - whether it's a crime or not isn't relevant in any way to any conversation being had
Yes, that's what "non sequitur" means.
Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder, not a crime. You're confusing it with actual child abuse.
Most common? Most likely depression or attention based disorders. Most common treatment? Evaluation of physical health factors, recommendation of increased exercise, change in diet, and social structure is usually the first step. If those challenges are daunting or already addressed, then medication management comes into play. If they can't confirm a specific deficit in your hormones, they usually start very low on the medication scale and then begin turning it up after seeing how the patient adjusts. Unless it's ADHD meds, in which case there's so much of a shortage they'll STILL tell you to try all the other things first at least one more time because they can't order you the pills anyway.
I'd back my argument up with a source or two if you wanted it, but it didn't seem like that was your vibe in the other comments. "Community based" approaches like getting people outside more, to see other people in person if they can so they can get some socialization, engaging them within their community so they can feel apart of something, those are all very good and awesome ideas that have legitimate backing from the scientific community to reduce the symptoms of the most commonly diagnosed disorders.
But you know what makes engaging in my local community easier? 5mg of D-Amphetamine for me, so I can keep my squirrel brain in check long enough to say going outside is my plan and that I want to tolerate hearing other people talk around me while I'm trying to think. For some, the added protection of an anti-depressant that stops them from reaching the same "basement" of emotion, keeping them baseline long enough to do their job, get the groceries, and sign a kid's report card until they've gotten themselves into a routine that doesn't lead to as many drops.
Sure, some things are societal, but a very good portion of it is chemical and denying it would be silly. Now, WHY there is a rising number of diagnoses compared to previous generations? My first assumption is stigma, more people are just being honest or feeling more comfortable sharing. But there's also the factor of microplastics, pollution factors, unregulated food industry, etc. that play a large role.
How is that in any way relevant to the claim that "most" mental illnesses are not severe enough for medication? You seem to be confusing "most mental illnesses" with "most people diagnosed with one type of mental illness." And even if it is the latter, what is the evidence that medication doesn't treat it?
Just trying to get the idea of what you co sided mental illness
What I consider it? No, what psychiatrists consider it. That's why the DSMV exists. You know what that is, right?
No. I want to know the most common dsm5 disorder and how they would suggest it would be treated :)
That is not the subject of the discussion. If you want to know that, find out yourself.
OK... I trust u bro ;)
It has nothing to do with trusting me either. This is basic medical information you can find out for yourself without trying to get me to do it for you out of some obvious need to do some sort of gotcha. I'm not going to play that game, sorry.
Source?
I drug myself thank you very much. The doctor just gives me permission.
Street has better shit ;)
...in some cases.
I don't disagree
But over prescription is bigger issue today than under prescription ;)
Who benefits from such policy?
Asking for a friend
Whose medicine are you proposing to take away?