Question to those not in the USA, and who have lived outside the USA.
I've been thinking about something and want to check an assumption I have. I only hear directly from other people in the USA, and interract with the global community through memes. How are the gun regulations/laws different from yours in terms of strictness, and do you wish there was more or less where you live?
Not looking for a debate here, discuss cold drinks vs hot drinks instead. Appreciate either answer. ❤️
Edit: Thanks for the answers all. I'm super proud how productive eveyone kept this talk. I figured most of you had very different experiences than I. I'll share my most recent experience. I don't have a firearm, but have considered it after being trained enough. When sharing this with "normal" people around town, I had multiple people offer to sell or gift me a gun where the serial number was scratched off and non-traceable. I ofter heard, "oh man, yeah. You need a gun." I have literally never needed one. The fact that people offer to give me one when I don't have a liscence or training shows the mindset of the minority here and how much of a problem a few individuals can make to safety within the current system.
Australia here - our change to gun control was well covered by John Oliver some years back but, in short, we had a mass shooting in 1996 (Port Arthur) that resulted in 35 deaths and 23 wounded, that changed Australia's mindset forever.
Our Prime Minster at the time worked with all states and territories to enact stricter laws on licensing and obtaining firearms. Yes, we've had crimes classed as mass shootings (4+ casualties) since, but nothing on the scale of Port Arthur - primarily because the change in laws reclassified semi-automatic weapons, and made them harder to obtain.
Before then, I'd shot guns with my dad - we'd enjoyed target shooting as a moderate hobby. But, aside from that, we had no other good reason to keep firearms, and my dad handed them in during the buyback scheme. We played our part in over a million weapons being handed back and destroyed, and I have no regrets. I'm now raising my child in a society where gun violence is considered rare, and I'm happy with that.
Great summary. It's definitely been worth it for me and my family too
As a fellow Australian, are you starting to reconsider that last sentence?
Gun violence was rare and still is compared to a lot of countries but shootings were once BIG news and now it's about every month or two someone is shot dead with an illegal firearm. Big increase since 2019
No, not really. Even though there's been an uptick in gun violence, it's not the sort of indiscriminate violence that would keep me (as a parent) awake at night. Many of the gun crimes we see are targeted or specific - gang and organised crime, murder suicides, familicides, etc.
Even though those are very troubling, they're still largely distant from the average Aussie. Unlike, say, in America where there's now a market for school backpacks with Kevlar inserts.
Gun deaths in Australia are at an all time low over the past 5 years
While the best I can get on mobile is this, all gun violence (including lethal and non-lethal) is also way down on long term trends.
German here, I'm pretty sure I've never seen a gun irl, except when used by the police or military. They are just not really a thing here. Nobody I've ever met owns one, nobody wants or needs one, nobody even talks about them.
There are legal ways to get a gun, but I never had to care about the details. That's pretty amazing imo, if you consider how big of a topic and problem they are in the US.
Fellow German here, I can remember seeing a Hunter carrying a Rifle. And that was many years ago. I can rember cleary because i have never seen a rifle irl before and after that.
There are stories from a company I used to work for, where the CEO was walking through the office with a rifle. He apparently kept his hunting rifle in a gun safe in his office on days when he was planning on going hunting. And I have fired several guns at a shooting range in Hamburg. As I didn't join the army this was my first time operating a firearm. Quite intense and interesting experience. Overall I agree with you, seeing firearms not carried by the police is such a rare experience here.
Well, we have the "no speedlimit on Autobahn" thing instead. But at least that is less harmful
I would gladly take my chances on the autobahn over the freeways in California. I feel that I'm much more likely to get killed in California by somebody texting while driving.
I feel like the nature of the autobahn makes it so drivers actually have to pay attention, but I could be wrong.
Also, the kind of cars that are popular in Europe actually drive and perform well. Our freeways are filled with pickup trucks and large SUVs, where the driver can't see anything in a 10 foot radius around their truck, and if they have to perform a quick maneuver at top speed, it's pretty much impossible.
Road safety here means to just be in a bigger vehicle, not to have a nimble well handling vehicle like most Europeans seem to prefer.
Apparently the number of deaths on the Autobahn is pretty average compared to other european countries, but it could still be much lower with speed limits.
Norway - Similar to many European countries, owning a gun requires a certifiable reason to do so, which basically means hunting or target shooting. Loads of guns here, as there's a lot of moose and deer. Obtaining and owning a hunting rifle requires skill tests and a theoretical exam, and you need to be part of a hunting group.
ARs are banned for obvious reasons. The only exception is for people who are army reservists who are (were?) allowed to store their service weapon at home, if they have proper secure storage options available. This may have changed since I was a reservist myself, but those were the rules in 2007 at least.
Pistols are legal for target shooting, but with strict background checks and so forth. Plus you have to be part of a target shooting club. Getting a pistol is generally harder than a rifle, as a means of preventing pistols from ending up on the streets. Gun voilence happens, but it is extremely rare, and mostly tied to gangs and/or organized crime. Except from this asshole in 2011.
Carrying permit for guns is pretty much none existent. To/from hunting or shooting range.
Self defense is not a valid reason for obtaining and carrying a gun. You don't really need it either. The only exception is Svalbard where is is possible due to polar bears. And even then, you can't be an idiot about it; a few years ago this dumbass got permanently banned from the Svalbard territory after intentionally provoking a polar bear, then shooting it, claiming self defense.
Sweden is pretty much the same as this.
As is Denmark, but with even fewer rifles, owing to a noticeable lack of big game.
I think it's important to mention that, like with medical products, we don't generally get adverts for firearms. I want to say it's illegal, but I'm not actually sure. Regardless, the lack of advertising for weapons contributes to the absence of firearms and related items in the public consciousness. You don't really get people over here standing around talking about guns the same way they'd talk about sports cars or tools. Guns are very much a serious topic reserved for law enforcement and military matters.
Man. What I would gove to have firearm violence so far away that I don't know the gun laws in my own country. Ty for the response.
Sweden also has extremely strict rules when it comes to alcohol commercials. Medicine commercials is only allowed for stuff that doesn't require a prescription.
Yeah, Sweden has a lot of hunting rifles.
Giving the service guns to the people who served also means they underwent training and are in capable hands.
In Canada you can buy hunting rifles at some Canadian Tires (think Target). You must get a PAL license and do some in-person firearms safety and training, store the rifle in a locked and certified gun locker, and can only carry it around to the range and for hunting.
It’s fairly strict on who gets a PAL (I can’t get one ever in my life because I was hospitalized for major depressive disorder when I was 18 and am 30 now).
Most people don’t care about guns here. They’re good for moose hunting and little air rifles are fun to shoot when one goes up to a cottage or something. There’s a small minority here that is very passionate about gun laws, but that same group also is usually very keen on the first and second amendment and often need to be reminded that those are American laws, not Canadian.
Another Canadian. I don't know the gun laws well, nor do I shoot, so I judge mostly based on the consequences.
Yes, we have gun violence, but it doesn't dominate the headlines daily. Homicides are still remarkable and mass shootings are still shocking. I suppose this means that we haven't made guns too easy to acquire, at least relative to the wishes of our population at large.
I don't think I need stricter controls, but I wouldn't support looser controls. I support things as they are, largely speaking. I'm prepared to be schooled by a fellow Canadian more in the know.
What I dearly wish to avoid are the conspiracy fantasies of the government coming to take our guns as well as a retroactive insertion of the myth that our country was born in, by, and through guns. It wasn't. As long as we avoid those two things well enough, we don't seem to need urgent change regarding gun controls.
My dad has a gun licence (Canadian) and interestingly, he mentioned there was a place in the application where your spouse (and/or former spouse) must sign off on your application too. I can see how that might hinder a few violent exes.
I used to have a license, they called multiple friends and my employer. The RCMP does a background check and they keep doing it, if anything new pops up they can pay you a visit.
It all felt pretty reasonable to me tbh.
Everything here is correct, except the part about needing a gun safe. As long as they are stored in an area considered to be locked away from the public (e.g. your home) you're good.
Source: am a Canadian who owns guns and stores them in my house with no safe.
I'm from Australia, and we have strict gun controls. US gun culture is a complete and utter mystery to me. I have no desire to live like that...
Czech Republic here. I know there's a license involved but other than that I have no clue how it works. Why should I know anything about gun regulations? It's such a niche and unimportant thing...
I wish I could have that viewpoint. Believe me.
You shouldn't but you also shouldn't post about it, because as you said, you know nothing.
This is an asklemmy thread, not an askgunnuts thread. Anyone from any country can answer whatever if they so please. The USA has a weird fascination with guns. This doesn't translate to other countries at ALL. There's enthusiasts everywhere, sure, but way less so than on murica.
Yes it is, a thread that asked what your laws are in comparison to the US and what your opinions are, you said you don't know anything about it and why should you.
You didn't answer the question.
I'm not from America so not sure what you're on about with the US.
It's informative regardless of how much they know about their local gun laws. Not all answers need to directly answer the question.
Vietnam. I've never seen someone with a gun that wasn't army, police, or at an Olympic event. Civilians can only own shotguns, and even then under a lot of restrictions. It's quite uncommon but I've heard of companies with rubber plantations out in the middle of nowhere having one gun on site. I've only heard of it being used to kill the odd wild boar that accidentally wanders into the office building.
There are some illegal guns from time to time, but not that many. It's something I've only seen on the news.
The current situation suits me just fine -- at our population density, I'm not comfortable with gun ownership being widespread. When you put enough people in a small space, there's always someone angry nearby, always someone celebrating, being born, dying. With everything happening everywhere all at once, adding guns to the mix would not be great, I think.
Also as one of very few immigrants to Vietnam, I am already seen as a target for thieves. People imagine I must be magically very wealthy or something -- I'm not. I came here with nothing and built a company, to progress to maybe middle-class. I live in the slums quietly like a normal person.
I would be OK with the police or army running shooting ranges where you could rent a gun to practice target shooting. Maybe that already exists, for all I know. I haven't really checked. There are archery ranges though, this is good enough for me :D
On the other hand -- more or less all citizens are trained to service an assault rifle. The means disassembly, cleaning, maintenance. My wife was fastest in her university class. We just don't own guns.
You migrated to Vietnam? That's actually quite interesting! Can I ask you some questions?
Sure. Go ahead.
Long story short though, my field of study disappeared in a puff of legislation, then the field I pivoted to also disappeared in a puff of legislation. So I decided to try and immigrate to a growth economy. I also taught myself software and hardware engineering. After visiting China and Vietnam, Vietnam seemed to have substantially clearer laws regarding foreign owned companies and immigration, the language didn't make me functionally illiterate, and 12 years ago the economy hadn't boomed yet, so the timing was better. The 5 year plan also had specific incentives for people like me.
The rest is mostly paperwork and immigration compliance (which you can also ask me about if you like). Currently there's a trend where calling yourself a 'digital nomad', 'expat' or 'remote worker' means you ignore the laws of the country you're a guest in -- I'm not one of those (haha, I have dark stories about that crowd). I've seen so many of those come and go, that I don't remember their names or faces -- only their misplaced optimism.
Wow, when I was 16 in Hanoi, a dude in a market tried to sell me a revolver
Haha wow. Times have certainly changed!
This city is nearly unrecognizable from 10 years ago.
Switzerland.
The rifle given to active members of the armed forces (militia system means this is most men basically) can either be kept at home or stored in an army facility until needed for service. It must be stored disassembled, locked, out of reach, and without ammunition. (Ammunition isn't given anyways.) It may not be used for anything outside of armed forces' service.
Private firearms can be bought after obtaining a permit with a background check. It can only be used on firing ranges which are almost always run by an association (syndicate? not sure about the translation, basically a shooting for fun and sports club) which provides some level of social control (no shooting alone whenever you feel like it). The firearm can only be transported from or to the firing range and otherwise not be carried. When transported it should be in a locked box in the boot of the car, not in the owners trousers or something crazy like that. Ammunition is typically provided by the organisation so no need to own any (but firearm owners can buy it.) For carrying it in general a much more difficult to get permit is needed. Conceal carry doesn't exist afaik.
Pro-gun Americans love to use Switzerland as an example of how firearms should not be restricted in any way and mental health is the one and only culprit of mass shootings. I hope a lot of them read this.
They're not uninformed, they're lying.
They are fully aware that if a politician tried to introduce gun laws that were an exact copy of Switzerland's, they would be staunchly opposed by the pro-gun community, Republicans and the gun lobby that owns them.
They just want to muddy the waters and drag out the conversation forever. The Switzerland excuse is just as bad-faith as when they blamed video games, music or too many doors.
Can you buy semiautomatic or automatic weapons there?
The service rifles have different settings, single shot, double shot, and full auto.
Other than that I think semi-automatic is allowed but not fully automatic.
For semi-automatic weapons you need a normal (shall issue) permit. Select fire / fully automatic you need a collectors license which is harder to get. Dependent on the canton you need to show a history of collecting firearm/ safe storage and some documentation about that. (They are legally forbidden weapons, which just means you need a permit which is harder to get). Shooting full auto also need an additional permit every time you want to do it.
P.s. there are a few commercial shooting ranges not belonging to a club.
Belgium.
The only guns I have ever seen in my entire life were from a friend's dad when I was little, who was a park ranger and needed them to keep animal populations in check.
Never saw an other gun, ever.
If you don't live in a shithole country, you don't need guns in order to feel safe.
Also Belgium. The only time I had a gun was when I joined the Police for a few years. After that, nope. In my 5 years, I've never even had the thought that I should pull out my gun. I've served in Brussels and rural areas.
It was just emphasized so much during our 12 months of training to 'never ever use it unless it's your last resort, only pull out your gun when you're ready to pull the trigger' that it simply didn't cross my mind. We were more trained with the stick thing, 'job?' and judo, hand to hand combat.
Also, as a civilian you have to take an exam to own a firearm. If you have mental health problems or a record of criminal behaviour forget it. Even if you do get a license, you can only use it in a shooting range and specific situations. And never transport your gun and ammo together.
If you have a burglar, even then you're only allowed to use appropriate force. If he has a knife, you're not allowed to shoot him.
Guns are licensed strictly for hunting only and our kids come home from school without being shot.
India. Very strict gun laws. This law is enforced in the part of India that I live in. The only gunshots that I've heard in my life are from movies and video games. However, I did hold a gun in my hand once hehe. One of my friends' dads had a gun license for some reason (I think he was a top level policeman or something). It was an unloaded black revolver that he was showing off to us kids lol. I remember being surprised at how much heavier it was than I thought it to be.
HOWEVER, in northern India (especially Uttar Pradesh), illegal guns are a very real thing. The law is very poorly enforced there. So yeah.... There's that.
New Zealand
only ever had ONE school shooting in history and it was 100 years ago
average level of gun ownership by OECD standards
owning guns requires a firearms licence, licence system administered by Police, who visit your house
guns not allowed for self defence/use on people
guns can only be transported to place of use, sale, or repair and must be secured
restrictions on semiautomatic weapons
police only use guns if dermed necessary
Worth noting no hand guns except for special licenses, and guns mostly used for hunting and on the farm. Gangs still often caught with guns frustratingly.
In my country its not allowed for civilians to murder people with guns, even if they come to your house or look like another ethnicity. Cops still do it sometimes tho, but they usually use cars/boots
Croatia
You can get a hunting licence and buy a gun/rifle/shotgun. It takes a test, and i think you cant have violent crimes. You also need a gun "safe" (basically a shitty locker like in US highschool movies), and the cops can come whenever they want to inspect it (usually regular, i forget if once per yearor 6 months or something).
That said theres still guns from the war. One grampa died and the cops found a bunch of rifles and granades in the attic, and a minefield infront of his house. Everybody knew about it, but knew he was a harmless nut.
I didn't realise that war was so recent until a holiday there. Beautiful country and friendly people too, and you love pitchers of wine eh!
I'm in the UK it's nearly impossible to get a fire arm so many back ground checks and when you do it's only shotguns
Yeah in the UK we had a school shooting in the 90's, then they really cracked down on gun ownership and there hasn't been another one since.
There are still other types of shootings sometimes of course, but it's pretty rare comparatively.
I live in Oregon but grew up in Australia, where you can't get guns. There's a process for farmers to apply for a gun to shoot roos and whatnot, but that's it. Other than that only police and military get guns.
Having lived in countries with no guns and all the guns, I would vote for almost anyone who promised to criminalize gun ownership here in the US. There's no benefit to a gun flooded society and infinite misery.
I'm pretty sure Aussies can also get recreational/competition permits. I've seen a few Aussies on YouTube who shoot PRS.
Edit: PRS stands for Precision Rifle Shooting. Basically trying to get really tight group on far away targets mostly done with bolt action rifles with high magnification scopes.
You can, but you need to have a sensible reason to own one. "self defense" isn't a reason, it is a fantasy.
Plenty of people have target guns and other stuff for club and sport shooting, all carefully locked up when not in use, as is the law, so accidents don't happen.
Incidentally, we did have a school shooting in the last thirty years. In SA, I believe. No one died and they tightened the restrictions. It worked.
The UK has really strict laws on firearms AFAIK, you have to either apply for a certificate from the police or surrender them even if you're an antique collector. The government website ofc does into more detail. I'm not really involved in the firearms debate, so I can't say if I want more or less. I will say there's a lot of knife crime in the UK though, enough for it to be a common occurrence on local news and a meme in online circles.
I'm not from here, but in Svalbard, a firearm is a legal requirement due to the bears in the area, but even then the use of it should be a last-resort if all the other bear deterrents have failed. Tom Scott's got a good video on it.
Theres far less knife crime in the UK than gun crime OR knife crime in USA
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/5/16/2098275/-The-Right-likes-to-compare-US-Gun-Violence-to-UK-Knife-Violence-They-are-NOT-the-same
There's not really a huge debate as I think most people are fine with the current status quo.
From my own perspective guns were more available and used more casually by criminals before the 1997 legislation in the wake of the Dunblane massacre. Afterwards it was much less of an issue. If you really wanted one you could get one I'm sure but the cost (financial and risk) has gone up making it less of an option for petty criminals. Now you usually here of gun violence between gangs.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Tom Scott's got a good video on it
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Switzerland: Lot of guns here, but there are background checks and every gun is accounted for as you have to send a copy of the receipt to the government. There are also other laws surrounding the whole topic like how to properly store them, how to transport guns etc.
But there are a lot of guns and basically no incidents. However the overall respect toward guns as well as strong social security probably go a long way.
Side note: I only ever once shot a gun. Went to a shooting range (friend of mine had to go there anyway for mandatory military shooting exercises), they had a range to shoot handguns. Applied, got one, did my 10 rounds and left. But there was strong supervision, one wrong move and they would take the gun away.
Where I live (Slovakia) you need a license to own firearms. Getting that license is a lengthy and rigid procedure and needs to be repeated every 5 years. Fully automatic rifles are forbidden for civilians. The most commonly owned firearm is a hunting rifle. If you happen to own a firearm, but don't have a license, you are required to have it stored at a police station, for example when you inherit your grandfather's hunting rifle. For that you pay a relatively low storage fee, but you still own it.
I think these laws are fine. I don't own a firearm myself, but I do know one guy who carries a 9mm on him at all times for defensive purposes (his daughter had a very bad experience, after which he decided to carry a gun). I like the fact that a license is always only valid for 5 years.
In Brazil guns are expensive (multiple monthly minimum wage), there are no gun shops easily available and the Policia Federal (kinda like FBI) needs to check your background and approve you before you buy (and they usually don't).
Last presidential term, Bolsonaro tried to make easier to buy and have guns available, and as result a lot of guns got in the hands of organized crime. Now most of these changes were revoked.
I don't like guns around, you guys have a huge problem with school shootings and this trend is spreading to Brazil (and we have problems enough already). A peaceful society with guns can be peaceful; a violent society without guns easily available will be violent; but a violent society with guns will be far more deadly.
USA here, more depressed about our gun nonsense than before.
Thoughts and prayers.
(Sorry couldn't resist)
thx, appreciate all the tots and pears
Yeah. There is an abundance of opinions here, but most if not all are very self-centered. It's all I ever heard.
It’s the ones who think they have a constitutional right to rocket launchers, C4, etc that really drive that point home.
In Belgium.
Generally you can only easily buy hunting rifles here.
But you can buy every kind of firearm if you get the proper licenses and have them registered.
My uncle is a gun nut. He doesn't fire them other than the required qualification renewals. He's more into them to show off and simply have them.
His most prized guns are a Barret M82-a1 and an antique "elephant gun" chambered in .577 Express.
He has a load of various revolvers, handguns, a couple ARs and an AK, all bought legally.
All but the "normal caliber" hunting rifles he owns are to be either disabled (firing pin removed) or stored at a shooting range.
Most of them are disabled and in a display case at his home. The Barret, 2 ARs and some of the handguns are at the shooting range.
EDIT: note, there are of course different regulations when you're in a profession that requires a gun, like security.
My answer is how it is for your regular person that just wants guns for recreation or show.
Are there places you can go for hunting in Belgium?
Yes.
Live in a third world country sort of famous for its gang violence and migrant caravans, and we have strict gun laws. Used to be you could buy semi auto rifles, now unless you got a good reason (like hunting), pistols are your best hope.
Honestly, at this point I wish we had an easier time getting a hold of them. It might be the help people in some areas need to drive gangs out their neighborhoods, cus I sure as hell ain't trusting a pig not to take a bribe.
Edit: also, might make the government think twice about fucking with democracy or stepping over the common man.
That's just a marketing campaign from gun manufacturers. If it actually worked, it would have worked in America.
Instead, they get to choose between a neoliberal and a fascist every few years (if they haven't been disenfranchised or gerrymandered into irrelevance), which decides whose rich friends and donors get to pocket the most public funds.
I agree, in the case of america. My country doesn't have howitzers, interceptors, or anything close to combat ready hardware. Most jarheads I see walk around with old hardware, galil, fal, m16A1 and M4, that kinda stuff, but most everything is on the older side.
An armed population here probably wouldn't be immediately decimated by a drone strike, because we don't have drones.
South Africa?
Nah, Honduras.
I'm from New Zealand.
Gun laws are fairly strict here. To own a gun at all, you need to get a firearms license (  ). You can get one once you're 16, and it includes a test of gun safety knowledge and someone coming to check your gun storage. It also only lets you get basic guns: bolt action rifles and shotguns, no handguns or semi auto. To own other guns, you need an endorsement, which has a vetting process similar to what cops go through.
The strictness really only applies to gun ownership though - if you just want to shoot there's plenty of places you can do that.
It also applies to gun storage and gun transportation. Driving around with a shotgun on a rack behind your head in your ute would not be legal here.
Sure, but you're not likely to be doing much of either without owning one 🙂 I'd be surprised if a gun owner allowing someone else to store or transport their guns isn't in breach of their license as well.
@asret yeah, it likely would be in breach. :-)
I just mean the OP is from the US where they have "concealed carry", "open carry" etc. Compared to that, our laws about what you can do with a gun once you get one are relatively strict.
India has 5.3 civilian firearms per 100 people. This should give a glimpse of the gun laws, but this is slightly inaccurate, as I've not read the 2019 amendment to gun laws. To read the new amendment, you can check it out here.
That's higher than I expected. I haven't seen a gun outside of CISF or armed police. Is it UP skewing the numbers?
According to Bard, it says that UP is skewing the numbers, but I don't trust the verbal vomit from that LLM. If you can give a look at the 2021 data, it could point out to what you're looking for. But yes, North India has a gang violence and gun culture problem. We're talking about Punjab, Delhi, Haryana, UP and Bihar. Then there's also insurgent groups in Chattisgarh, Odisha, West Bengal, Assam and Jharkhand.
Oh yes, I forgot about the insurgencies. That's probably the bulk of the guns.
New Zealand. Gun laws are pretty strict, though we have lots of farmers who have guns for defending livestock. You can own guns with a valid reason (e.g. recreational shooting, not self defense) but essentially the only two places they can be is in a locked safe or (being transported to) a gun range.
In addition any and all tools and weapons are illegal to carry for the purpose of self defense (knives, pepper spray, tazers, clubs, screwdrivers, etc.). There's a crime epidemic here at the moment, corner stores being robbed by people with machetes, jewelry stores ram raided with trucks, but if you dare even carry pepper spray to defend yourself you can be jailed. Don't bother calling the cops either, they won't be there until at least half an hour later. Cops don't care about robberies. We literally once had the dispatcher tell us that no police would be coming. It's ridiculous.
I wish self defense laws were less crazy here, if someone enters your home or property armed with a weapon you should be able to respond appropriately without fear of going to jail yourself.
@Rossphorus fellow New Zealand here.
If we changed the law and allowed people to buy guns in order to use them on other people, what you would see is every single gang member and wannabe carrying a "self defence" gun by lunchtime.
NZ currently has average gun ownership by OECD standards. Guns are tools not weapons, let's keep it that way.
I never said anything about changing gun laws.
Sorry, misunderstood your comment about self-defence laws.
The current law is you can defend yourself using appropriate force to stop the threat. You can use whatever you have to hand.
If you don't want to change gun laws, what would you like to change? Flick knife laws?
For a start it shouldn't be a crime to merely carry something for self-defense. The current laws say that carrying anything for the express purpose of self-defense is illegal. There's a bizarre cat and mouse game where the law says 'its fine to defend yourself' while simultaneously expressly forbidding you from carrying anything that you might be able to use for self-defense. It puts anyone actually in a life threatening situation at a supreme disadvantage: An attacker is already breaking the law so they'll be armed to some extent, but under the law the victim is designed to be defenseless. If they do decide to arm themselves against the law and use it to defend themselves they can be prosecuted for carrying a weapon after the fact.
Thanks for the explanation. On one hand I think you have a point, on the other hand I still can't tell what kinds of weapons you want legalised.
But no one ever is unless it's something egregious. There are even law blogs advising on what to carry.
We've had self defence stabbings and even shooting, the victims were not prosecuted. In the case of that guy who stabbed someone to death for tagging his fence, he probably should have been tbh.
I have no strong feelings on which particular weapons should be legal to carry, even if it's just pepper spray or brass knuckles or something. The main thing is that it should be legal to carry something.
Also, selectively enforced laws are a terrible, HORRIBLE concept and should be avoided at all costs. It gives police and those in power the ability to selectively punish (or pardon) whomever they choose, often at the whims of their personal biases. Passing and exploiting selectively enforced laws is a common tactic used by corrupt nations and can be used to silence political opponents, target selected groups, promote agendas and so forth. The law should not rely on cops 'being nice' and choosing not to arrest you.
@Rossphorus
That's a really good point. My lassaiz faire attitude to this is something I need to rethink. It's a bit like the abortion law thing we had a while ago.
Selective enforcement is one of those concepts that isn't talked about much outside of legal ethics circles unfortunately, but I think it's an important concept to be aware of and the potential issues with it. I first heard about it from The Dictators Handbook, which explores many behaviours of politicians and those in power, including how and why corrupt nations often employ selective enforcement. It's an interesting read, would recommend. It definitely changed how I looked at the world.
I guess there's passive selective enforcement (like NZ's old abortion law, where in theory women could only have an abortion if the pregnancy was a risk to health) and then there's more active selection (like corrupt countries use on political opponents)?
I will keep a look out for that book.
Spain: you need a justification and they are super hard to get. The most common one is to use it in Training Centers and you are forced to use it there every year or you lose it. Besides police I’ve never seen a gun in the street as it is strictly forbidden to carry them.
If you don’t want a debate, just the data, you want:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview\_of\_gun\_laws\_by\_nation
Ty, I'll probably look into that wiki article, but I like to hear individual thoughts on the matter as well. ❤️
Some guy shot up a nursery in Scotland in the eighties and guns have pretty much been banned ever since in the UK. You have to meet very specific criterias to get a gun like being ex military and or service or being a farmer for examples. should read into Philip luty shame what happened to the guy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Luty?wprov=sfla1
https://youtu.be/Khcvjj3KXZ4?si=W0XymAMhL9sSODTX
Close, but it was a primary school in 1996.
Ah shit fanks m8. Reading that was awful
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I'm from France. Getting a rifle is pretty easy, you "just" have to get a psych evaluation and a shooting club registration / hunting license. But that gets you long, manual weapons with small magazines. You can keep the gun if your license expires.
Then you can get a stronger license if your shooting club vets for you. This allows you to get handguns and semi auto rifles.
Any auto gun or explosive is basically only authorized for use for the military.
Oh and anything that can be used as a weapon is prohibited from being carried around in public spaces (yes, it is that vague), and protective equipment is subject to authorization as well (gas masks, bulletproof vests etc)
You can read more on Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_France
Edit: Wikipedia does not seem to explain it, but A class weapons are basically military only. B class is what you get through shooting club vetting. C class is for anyone registered by a club / hunting license. D is adults only, with exceptions for criminals etc
Denmark here. You can't buy guns unless it's for hunting. That means only guns made for hunting are legal ofc.
Result: much more safe to live here.
Personally I think guns have no place in any society, unless it's for sport like hunting or shooting competitions.
That’s not true. You can own a gun for target shooting too, but just like in the U.K. you have to be a registered member of a club and while you can hold the gun at home, then only under strict controls and a gun can only leave that locker when it’s going to or from the club, or to and from a store for repair or sale.
The guy who went on a mass shooting in Fields (a big shopping mall) used a target shooting rifle from being a member of a shooting club.
Ah yes, I forgot to mention target shooting. I assumed it as a hobby like hunting. The guy in Fields could have used both.
My point is more like you can't buy semi-automatic guns or something completely unrelated to sport.
Netherlands here. You can get a permit for sport shooting or hunting. Guns for self defense are not allowed.
Any violence used to catch a burglary or somebody breaking in has to be a reasonable response. So if they have no weapon and you hit them with a baseball bat you are actually in trouble. This can be very frustrating but there is a point to it. Minimal violence is the name of the game here.
Even the police are trained to talk first and only resort to violence when absolutely necessary. Drawing a weapon as a cop means filling out paperwork and there will be a review to make sure it was the right move.
However, for sport shooting you have to join a shooting club and shoot competition. The first year you can only shoot with air guns.
If you get a gun for sport shooting, you have to have a safe for the weapon, grounded to the wall and the floor. It will be inspected and police can check on you at random times.
Ammo and weapon should be separated at all times, transport can only be done in cases.
You are not allowed to load the gun until you are basically ready to shoot. If you have to shoot five times, you are not allowed to load six shots. You can have a maximum of 5 guns. Assault rifles are not legal I think. There are no competitions with them, so you have no reason to buy them.
The rules are strict. We only had one big "recent" shooting and I think it is at least 10 years ago. I like it.
Of course criminals stil have guns, but for a random guy who lost his job and want to take revenge it is neigh impossible to just buy an AK47 and shoot all his colleagues. Quite a safe feeling actually.
Just chiming in to say this is a great question, and I hope you get quality answers.
Very strict. Even if you HAVE connections, most of the time you're gonna get a pistol at best. It's easier to hire security agencies with AK47s than to get even say a shotgun. Very happy with this.
Dutch here. Gun laws are strict. Generally, only the police and military carry guns in public. To legally own a firearm without being in either the police or the military you need to be a member of a firing range/club type of deal iirc. And even then only senior members get to take their guns home with them.
There is gun related violence but it’s less of a problem because there’s few guns and they’re harder to come by. It does seem like gun violence might be increasing but I’m unsure if that is due to a few high profile cases and extra media attention or that it’s actually getting worse.
I like it this way. I personally have never felt the need to arm myself and I’m glad it’s mostly professionals that get to carry weapons. It’s not a perfect system and weapons do end up in the hands of the wrong people but it’s the exception more than the rule really.
Gun-related violence is going up because all violent crime is going up. Most Dutchies still underestimate how much of an influence organized crime has become, almost all of it narcotics related.
That said, due to strict gun laws most violent crime happens with knifes, and worryingly increasingly with explosives.
Apparently a 6% increase in crime in 2022 it seems. I suppose violent crime would have increased as well.
As for knives and explosives, that’s bad enough for me an I’m quite content to not add more firearms to that mix as.
Several Dutch people told me that firearms are common on ships under the Dutch flag. Given the number of people owning sea-worthy vessels this might be interesting. Do you know anything about this?
Haven’t heard about that but I think ships sailing under a Dutch flag would be treated as Dutch territory for law purposes. Harder to enforce when you’re on the high seas though. And I’m not sure percentage-wise there’s a disproportiona number of Dutch people that own seafaring ships. Most merchant ships would be owned by companies anyway and they’d probably frown upon that stuff.
Dutch merchant ships sailing through pirate infested waters might have armed guards (navy troops, mercenaries) I guess?
I think they may be telling you tall tales.
You are correct as far as I can recall what has been told to me by my friend who shoots for sport. Besides that I'd like to add that you can't hunt wildlife unless it's your job. And it's only for population control of various wildlife.
Also gun owners need to keep their guns and ammo in two different safes. The police can check if you're complying to that anytime.
To get a permit they will do a background check on you. My friend got questions about him looking up 3d models of guns online. But he was only looking for fantasy weapon replicas for cosplay reasons.
Furthermore, bullets are as illegal without a gun permit as the guns themselves.
You can only take your gun with you when you are on your way to a range or back home from a range. And not within easy reach.
Owning airsoft weapons requires a club membership to the national airsoft league.
Lastly it's national news anytime a police officer fires their gun. It's that rare.
Czechia: To get a gun for self-defense, you need to get a permit, which includes mandatory training, tests and a psychological evaluation (which, from what I've heard, is not hard to get). You need to have a clean criminal record and they check your misdemeanors too (you may not be allowed to get a permit if you've had issues with public drunkenness for example). However, after that you can not only buy a gun but also are automatically allowed to concealed carry.
There are several types of permits and getting a permit for sports or hunting is slightly easier. You need to be 21 years old to get a self-defense permit, you can get a hunting or sports permit when you're 18 or in special situations (used under supervision) when you're 15. The permits last 10 years, but you can lose them if you get a criminal record. The gun permit registry is managed by the state police, so it's easy for them to check the validity of your license if they need to do so.
Gun violence is very rare, so I'm happy with this and see no reason to change it. The people that I know who have a permit (it's quite uncommon) are very responsible with it.
There are restrictions on which weapons a civilian can buy. No automatic weapons for sure, but I think you can get some semi-automatic guns with a suppressor (cause I've heard a guy recommending one such gun with sub-sonic ammo for potential home-defense, stating "if I really have to use it, there's no reason why my family should go deaf in the process", heh).
India : guns are licensed, and licenses aren't easy to get. Huge black market of low standard gins though.
Urgh I hate low standard gins, I need at least a tanqueray or a monkey 37.
Austria: relativly strict: you have to have a reason (hunting, self defense or sport). depending on the category of weapon a mental assessment could be necessary (not in case of hunting rifles only). automatic weapons, explosives and some other weapons are not legal to own privately. you have to securely store the weapon and need an extra permission for carrying - which is nigh unobtainable, even for active police. Transportation in a locked container and unloaded.
In Dominican Republic the laws don't allow anyone to carry, however, if you have enough money, you can pay your way through owning a gun and carrying legally. It's messed up. I wish the law about guns here was like in Australia. No guns. End of story.
I'm Australian, live in the suburbs and have multiple firearms in my safe. There's not many guns but there are certainly guns.
I have lived in Switzerland.
They have mandatory service and many people choose the military service option.
As I understand it, they get basic training and then do annual service. Most people seem to enjoy this as they serve with people from where they grew up and hae a lot of fun (and beer).
Each of these people has a military rifle in their home (and uniform, etc) with live ammo. They are a standing army. A well ordered militia, maybe?
You often see them on the train in fatigues with their weapon on the way to training.
https://www.ch.ch/en/safety-and-justice/military-service-and-civilian-service/military-service/#basic-training
https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/s/I1GLtIcQ4c
While the Swiss do tragically have "mass shootings", they are not US style terror attacks, typically: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_Switzerland
What are the gun ownership rules for people who do not choose the military service option?
No idea, I was there as a cook for under two years. Guys I worked with had to do military service so we discussed it.
Found this: https://www.ch.ch/en/safety-and-justice/owning-a-weapon-in-switzerland/
There is a more in dept post above. In a nutshell, you can have semi-auto with a shall issue permit. No carrying for self defense however.
Here's a YouTube playlist talking about the gun laws in Malta, Russia, Canada (now outdated), South Africa, France, Sweden, & Estonia.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9e3UCcU00TR3nvqlRMsEuFAiOqr1WHV1&si=kZ4iTSVKp55XWkit
Tldr: Typically in other countries handguns are much more restricted than rifles. Plus many require good cause for ownership (like hunting).
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I'm from NZ. I was very surprised to learn that our gun laws were quite lax up until the relatively recent mosque shooting in Christchurch - the assault-style weapon the shooter used was quite legal, including the special modifications he had made to make it better for killing people.
in the wake of that tragedy, things have gotten a lot stricter, though I'm afraid I can't provide specifics - while I love guns, my collections are confined to the virtual, and I really have no interest in owning one IRL.
Sweden: you can apply for a licence from the police for target shooting if you're an active member of a club, or a hunter if you have passed a hunters exam (like drivers license basically). You'll have your criminal record checked.
Either way the gun must be suitable for the purpose. Shotguns and hunting rifles are not very hard to get. If your criminal record is clean and you've got the hunters exam you'll probably be granted a licence for up to 4 hunting rifles/shotguns with the only question being if you have a large enough gun safe. You'll get to keep them forever unless you're convicted of a crime. (There is a debate right now if doctors should tell the police if someone is unsuitable, the argument against is that people would not go to the doctor if they suspected they could lose their guns)
Hand guns are harder to get and the license needs to be renewed every few years and you've got to prove that you are actively hunting/target shooting.
Magazine size for semi automatic is limited. Length of rifles and shotguns are regulated as to not be easily concealable. All firearms must be stored in a heavy safe when not used. You're not allowed to carry it around town.
As for my opinion as a hunter it's not excessively burdensome to get your license. The time delay has been due to under staffing rather than the laws itself. I do take issue with the "suitable for purpose" as they can arbitrarily deny you a licence because it "looks" like a military rifle.
I've lived in the UK, Netherlands, Belgium, and Germany.
Europe has gun laws which are of varying severity. AFAIK some places it's relatively easy to buy a gun, some ban handguns (because they're concealable), some ban larger stuff, some you'll need to store your gun at the ammo range, some you're not allowed to have ammo in the home, varying levels of background and mental health checks too. Some places you'd have a hard time finding a gun, visit Budapest and you'll come across ads for a day out in a tank + shooting stuff with an AK.
The main thing is that self-defense isn't really a thing and gun culture is often very low key. Outside (perhaps but not always) the police, mainly hunting and shooting at a club. Most people don't even care enough about guns, to know what the laws are where they live. Eg. plenty of guns in the UK countryside, but most British people don't know that because they're not hunters/farmers/clay pigeon shooters, and often assume they'd be harder to get a hold of than they actually are. Netherlands, Belgium and Germany also have plenty of gun shops, but most people are oblivious, because they don't really care. Might as well be a fishing shop.
IME gun control isn't really a political issue most places. Unless there's been a (exceptionally rare) mass shooting, I honestly don't think most people even have a fully formed opinion on gun control, so they'll likely just answer they're happy with the status quo.
Canadian, not a gun owner but here's the gist: To have guns you need a license and a clean criminal record which is automatically checked so long as you are registered to use them (the PAL). If you are convicted of violent or weapon related crime, you lose privileges. The license has a 28 day mandatory waiting period. Canadian gun owners are free to fact check or clarify this for me.
Once registered can use most long guns, shotguns as they are non-restricted for hunting and typical activities like that (of course you'll need to be registered separately to publicly conduct that activity). Restricted and prohibited weapons like handguns, semiautomatic and automatic weapons can only be possessed or acquired for people who use it as specifically necessary for their occupation, someone who does target practice as part of a registered club (restricted only), collectors knowledgeable on the series of equipment and certain exemptions for old hand-me-downs. Any time you move these categories of firearms to another location, legally you need to fill out a form and notify authorities.
Illegal firearms often show up here after being smuggled from across the border, where they seem to give them out like candy in comparison.
UK. Much, much, MUCH stricter than the US and I'm very glad.
@Goldmage263@sh.itjust.works in Europe gun ownership is largely illegal. You can get a permit but it need to be approved by the police and the gun you can buy is of limited firepower, like a pistol or something like that. You can also get hunting licenses and that is about it.
Somewhat related, I found a gun store in Tokyo once, of all places.
Are you sure that wasn't one of their hyper realistic airsoft rifle places??
It’s called Shibuya firearms
Portuguese here:
As well hand guns are limited to "non-military" calibers... for instance 9mm is for government agents solely.
Of course there's black market and use by shady actors...
As for people's personal relationship with guns, most people doesn't care to have one as there's not much violent crime to justify said behavior.
As a native commonwealther, guns are legally a no, but that offers no protection from those who would end up getting one.
Something that bugs me is... weapons wouldn't be needed for defense if booby traps were legal, but those have even less legality in the world than guns, almost as if the whole goal is to make things hard.
Booby traps are not legal and should stay that way because they are indiscriminate and could hurt people you do not intend to, including yourself.
Say you have a medical emergency and tragically die at home, and someone calls for a wellness check on you after weeks or months. If you have your house trapped for "protection," the first police officer that gets through the door ends up blasted by a rigged up pipe shotgun for no good reason.
I'm not thinking of the kind of booby traps meant to kill, I'm thinking of the classic Scooby Doo kind where they're just meant to restrain.
So the police would just step in a bear trap, got it.
Since when has the mystery gang ever set up bear traps?
But if course they offer protection as they prevent virtually all cases where someone would get a gun in the first place.
That's the reason the US has so many gun related terror attacks: guns are ubiquitous, which means any problem can readily escalate to a gun attack. Getting a gun in most other countries requires a significant amount of commitment that most of these cases wouldn't ever have developed in the first place.
Sure, it decreases the amount of gun violence to criminalize firearms, but if someone is dedicated, this can be circumvented with a black market or some tinkering, and when they do strike, people are more unprepared, giving the suspect almost the same advantage. We not only see this between the different states (since each US state handles firearms differently) but also other nations (the New Zealand and Australian shootings a year or so back were devastating).
Sure, but you trade a lot of only slightly less bad shootings for very rare if bad shootings.
It's not necessarily that much stricter in Europe. It's just guns for self-defense, isn't a thing.
Their are guns everywhere, and everyone who needs a gun has one.
It just stops the random fuckers getting their hands on one for no good reason. Also, automatic weapons are for killing humans. Why even sell those.
You really can't generalize for Europe. Countries here differ vastly both in regards to laws and gun ownership rates.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation
USA: No permit required for semi-automatic long guns and hand guns
Europe: Allowed with permit – good reason (like sport shooting license or proving danger to life required)
So what you say is bullshit.
Not really, it is a thing in Switzerland and Czechia for example.
And even outside of that, not every country has laws as strict as Germany or UK.
I believe they are the only 2 countries, so I feel my generalisation is acceptable.
Actually no. Self-defense + concealed carry is allowed in Baltic states as well and home defense (=no concealed carry) is also allowed in Italy and Austria.
No, with very rare exceptions, carrying for self-defense is not allowed in Switzerland.