Switched my Parents to Linux

Lettuce eat lettuce@lemmy.ml to Linux@lemmy.ml – 365 points –

I'm visiting my parents for the holidays and convinced them to let me switch them to Linux.

They use their computer for the typical basic stuff; email, YouTube, Word, Facebook, and occasionally printing/scanning.

I promised my mom that everything would look the same and work the same. I used Linux Mint and customized the theme to look like Windows 10. I even replaced the Mint "Start" button with the Windows logo.

So far they like it and everything runs great. Plus it's snappier now that Windows isn't hogging all the system resources.

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set up some remote desktop in case you need to support them when your vacation ends

Rustdesk! Its a GUI copy of Teamviewer but it works.

It has all the DynDNS stuff that miss in all the other options so they are unusable in countries where IP addresses change.

But no wayland, yet.

Waypipe could probably be used as a reference or incorporated as a library to make it work

Yes Wayland, but experimentally.

It's so funny that having a different theme makes the computer hard to use for some parents. :)

Those people drive cars on the road!

UI/UX 101, my friend.

If people are used to see specific symbols for years is hard for them to use different ones.

There's a reason why floppy disk is still the icon for "save".

Those people drive cars on the road!

Imagine if they change all road signs designs suddenly before you go for a ride.

I wouldn't be overly harsh.

Some logos/images/designs are simply hardwired to the function that they can't remember where the apps are if the logo changes. I'm pretty sure I'll be the same if I use something for 30 years.

My wife changed her Windows work laptop last week. Her Desktop is synced to OneDrive so really she just needs to login. Despite that she was panicking that her PDF's were gone. They weren't, it's just that the new laptop has a newer version of Adobe Reader which uses an updated icon.

Some people are just tech illiterate and the slightest difference can be upsetting. My mum's the same with her phone. Using Google Maps to navigate is an achievement for her and I've been telling her to use it for years. The first time she did she reached her destination literally shaking. She was also amazed with herself that she had done it.

I did that about 10 years ago because I got tired of removing malware for them. They haven't had any malware since then.

Same. And also because it kept getting slower for no reason. The only support requests at the beginning were "how do I install this" --> app store, and "it won't boot" --> that took longer because they had turned off the computer during a system update - by holding down the power button. The last one warranted a sticky note on the screen "NEVER turn off the computer during an update".

Same here. Not just my parents, but also some of my aunts and uncles. None of them are particularly tech savvy and none of them have had any major issues.

People who claim that Linux is difficult to use, or not suitable for newbies, have no idea what they're talking about.

An excellent choice to use Linux Mint! If my parents allowed me to switch their computers to Linux, I would've chosen Linux Mint as well for them. But, I probably wouldn't give them the Windows 10 look.

My mom insisted that it look the same lol. I figured it was a small price to pay to get them off Windows. I still might change it secretly before I leave haha.

I wish linux was my parents.

I wish I had a linux

We have Linux at home!

Linux at home: MS-DOS 5.0 on 5 1/4" floppies

I gave my mom a macbook with debian KDE and a mac OS theme.. I dont think she's noticed yet....

I mean, I literally have the same thing, but with Ubuntu and Mate, so I get it 🤓

Welcome to the club. It's the don't need to remove malware from the parents computers every week club.

Good job on that! Linux is way better for average uses like you described. 😊

And that's the thing. It's great for casual users who do simple computing tasks, and it's great for the programmers, hackers, and IT professionals. But there's no middle ground for power users who know a bit more than the average users but can't be bothered to learn shell scripting.

I'm using Linux ten years now and I never learned shell scripting. Or do you mean running commands in the shell?

I don't agree with your exact reasoning on the middle ground, but I think there's truth in the underlying sentiment.

I do think that users that are are competent with technology but unfamiliar with Linux are pretty likely to get frustrated with it. I had this discussion with a friend just yesterday. They want to try out Linux because of frustration with Windows 11's restrictive hardware requirements. But they also want to ease in to it. I think that's wise. In this specific case, I think if they tried to dump Windows in it's entirety and try to use Arch right off the bat, they'd get frustrated and give up. But if they tried a user friendly distro on a secondary piece of hardware? I think that has a good chance of creating a new Linux user.

I guess the point of that rambling paragraph is that that type of a user is a challenge, but there is middle ground to be had.

It was hard for me too, but PopOS made my life easy back in the day when I first tried.

No drivers needed, everything worked out of the box, including the Nvidia GeForce 2060 Mobile. So I just needed to get comfortable with the OS in general.

Or gamers who want to play triple a titles

I play AAA titles all the time on linux. Just not ones that come bundled with viruses and rootkitskernel-level invasive anticheat.

And during anti-cheat outages... Turns out the games play fine with proton.

*linux-hostile-anti-cheat multiplayer titles

Got my dad on Mint for a few years now. That me reminds me I have to check which version he is on. He might still be on 20 something.

I don't believe in making GNU/Linux look exactly like Windows. It's a different OS, and any attempt to fool users will be in vain.

I tell family members: "I don't know anything about Windows/macOS." (Because I don't, at this point.) "I can only help you if you use what I use." Usually, they stop asking me for help, and that's great for me. If they say yes, I install Fedora with GNOME and whatever applications they expect to use. After a brief explanation of how GNOME works, people generally get used to it and are satisfied.

I share my laptop with Mom. It runs GNU Guix System with GNOME. She uses it to run Chrome for stuff she can't get on her tablet. She's used to it at this point.

I mean I was with you in the first half, I also tell my family either to use it I'm used to or don't ask me for help. But I would not be so rude as to put gnome on it and force them to learn a completely different workflow.

Especially when 99.9% of what they do is in a web browser there's no reason to change anything on them. I just used KDE plasma as it's already extremely Windows 7 like in layout right out of the box couple more tweaks to make it a little more Windows 10 like and they don't have to relearn a bunch of shit.

They don't need to know how to install things, I have a tray applet helper for handling updates all they have to do is Click yes, doesn't matter if they understand the differences between Windows and that. They just need to be able to open the web browser, open libreoffice, and occasionally click print. There's no reason for me to force them into an entirely different workflow.

I'm glad that your mother figured it out and seems to be doing well, but to me it just feels like an unnecessary change

It is not rude to advocate for computing freedom and privacy, no, in fact, I think it's everyone's duty to carry GNU/Linux into their families and campaign for its adoption.

You should attempt to read the message again, I did not say Do not advocate for linux. I said do not pointlessly change the workflow. Gnome is a massive UI departure from windows and a workflow shift. Which is just completely unnecessary for the average person and just makes the transition hard for no reason.

I did the same thing with my Dad. He's been using Linux Mint for a bit over 2 years now.

Linux Mint is more than enough for his usage: Email, internet browsing and word processing.

I switched my mothers Laptop to Gentoo with KDE some time ago and she did not even notice, because I placed the firefox icon at the same location it was in windows .. 😜 she noticed only that the wallpaper is different

Get ready to address hard to debug issues in the future op.

Master....please teach me your ways.

Just uninstall your proprietary parent and install Linux.

I'd just like to interject for moment. What you're referring to as Parents, are in fact, GNU/Parents, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Parents

How do I uninstall my mom??

Open your terminal and run sudo rm -rf --no-preserve-root. Trust me bro, it works!

Mom?

...

MOOOOM?!

Hello son, I am your mother. However, I'd just like to interject for moment. What you're referring to as Mom, is in fact, GNU/Mom, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Mom.

My dad has a Surface Go. I've installed Fedora on one of those and it works really well. Dad is still unsure about this but I will try to convince him during the holydays.

Any trouble spots on the Surface? I have a 2017 model that could use a refresh, but I was worried about the touch screen, digitizer pen, and detachable keyboard.

I recently loaded the latest Ubuntu LTS onto my old Surface Pro and I wish I had done it a long time ago. It works so much better than Windows. Zero issues with any hardware. I don't have a digitizer pen though I remember reading you can load a special kernel if you have any issues with it. Give it a go, I think you'll be happy you did

I put ubuntu on a surface Pro 4, around 2016, and everything worked perfectly without fiddling with drivers back then except autorotate. I'm guessing by now even that works.

The only problem I had was using a specific App (Tidal music). The virtual keyboard doesn't show up so I either have to plug the real keyboard or use the web version of the app. Otherwise its really smooth, way better that it was on windows 10. Touch screen is super responsive, I dont have the pen.

I always have the keyboard attached, so that's not a big deal for me. Thank you for the review.

Similar story—last year my mom wanted a new macbook for Christmas. I got her a refurbished Asus something or other for a fraction of the price, installed Linux Mint on it, and customized it with a Mac theme.

I was transparent with her about the fact it’s not a Mac, and taught her to use things like Keepass and Firefox. It took some convincing and persistence, but in the end she stuck with it and I’m kinda proud of her tbh.

Good on you for showing your rents there’s a viable alternative to Windows.

Not worth it. You will end up playing the h support when something goes wrong.

My parents would ask me for tech support anyway no matter the OS. I have them update software and update Firefox and Chromium and their Netflixing will keep working, been very low stress generally.

As if I'm not already doing that. Why do you think I was home working on my parent's computer in the first place?

Plus with how shitty Windows is getting, I'll likely be doing less tech support going forward.

I set up Mint on my parent's PC a couple of years ago, and the amount of support I have had to provide has dropped to basically zero.

I don't know, maybe?

I play support now, and have for decades. Sometimes windows can be a bear.

Maybe, for basic usage like this, Linux can make sense if it's well thought out?

I have an older (80's) family friend who recently switched from a laptop to an iPad, and seems OK with it (surprisingly).

Typically all of us who switched our relatives to Linux were doing support anyway — but it's much easier than Windows.

Windows needs constant handholding like a needy pet (and not the cute kind). With Linux I spend extended periods of time without having to do anything. I get like one major issue a year, and it's usually hardware related. The only questions I get occasionally are "do you know an app that does thing".

Oh yeah. https://tadeubento.com/2023/linux-desktop-a-collective-delusion/

Make me use windows and I will write a similar blog post about me hating every second of it. But I don't have to, so I won't.

The part about dragging and dropping files like its the 90s, instead of just pushing to your git repo was funny.

Cmon, this isn't a compatible and good enough alternative:

It is something that will just give you issues down the line when people expect documents to look consistent.

Firstly, there's no guarantee that a document would look exactly the same even within different versions of MS Office itself. Also, try opening any complex document in MS Office on macOS for instance, and you'll most likely notice issues or differences compared to the Windows version. In my old sysadmin job, where I used a Mac, we had a standard "change control" template that we had to fill out when doing infrastructure changes, and the radio buttons used in the form didn't work on the macOS version of Office. So issues like this are pretty common. These sort of issues are why people either normally ignore them OR in the case that layout/formatting is critical (eg: for publishing/printing), then they'd use PDF or TeX or similar formats, where the formatting is preserved.

Secondly, as @cygnus@lemmy.ca mentioned, use OnlyOffice if MSO compatibility is important. Below is a screenshot I captured of a recreated Lorem Ipsum docx on my Linux machine, with MS Office Online (running on Edge) on the left and OnlyOffice on the right.

As you can see, they're virtually identical - and any difference in the sizing etc would come down to the fact that I'm running the web version of MSO, so the zoom/scaling may not exactly match that of OO. But other than that, if you check the spacing and everything else, it's pretty accurate.

Finally, in saying that, even OO has it's limitations and isn't a 100% replacement for MSO - as it can't run macros, or may not be able to display certain types of embedded objects in Excel and so on. But then, even the web and Mac versions of MS Office has these sort of limitations. But the average home user wouldn't normally use macros or advanced features in Office, so for the most part, OO, or even LO should be fine for most users.

Also, just as a reminder, in this thread we're discussing about how Linux can work fine for most home users, the kind of users who have simple requirements, and aren't dependent on specific proprietary programs like Photoshop etc. Obviously Linux will not be suitable for every single need or use case out there, but neither is Windows or MacOS - if you have special needs or requirements, then use the tool that's best for the job. But nitpicking minor differences like this isn't helping anyone, we'd be sitting here arguing all day about how "X OS sucks because it can't do Y", which is a pointless exercise.

Edit: I was curious to see how bad LibreOffice actually was so I just tested it out:

... and that was surprisingly not bad at all! Just one word out of place. But this goes to show how opensource software is ever evolving and constantly improving - so a particular criticisms you may have had in the past may no longer be applicable, unless you test it out yourself against the latest versions.

On my print with version 7.6 it wasn't just a word out of place. I noticed you're opening a DOCX and even if it looks better than what I showed it is useless. LibreOffice refuses to save in DOCX meaning I can't edit documents.

Not improving at all, you just did the wrong test :P

Um... that's NOT a refusal, it's just a warning. Clicking on that highlighted button will save the DOCX.

To not get the warning again, all you have to do is untick the checkbox which says "ask when not saving on ODF" - it's there right in your screenshot.

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Use OnlyOffice if looking like MS Office is that important.

Different people have different workflows. Documents is something I create using LaTeX and Emacs Org Mode. I have almost no use for things like word processors. I spend most of my day in a text editor and using windows would slow Emacs down. I don't expect everyone to work like I do, so you should not assume that everyone uses word processors for their work. Libreoffice Writer is totally sufficient for the rare occurences in which I want to use one. I am the only Linux user at my workplace, all the others use Windows or MacOS and so far I have never used anything except Linux in my professional life. If you need specific features from word, excel or need to install Photoshop or games, I understand your need for a different operating system. My needs are different, I need a system which I can adapt to my wishes.

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This article seems misguided, people pick their OS because of what they need. I can list many things with subpar experience on Windows: emacs suck; latex is slow; libreoffice and thunderbird crashes like nobody's bushiness; opam is straightup unsupported (which means ocaml, dune, coq is a pain); there is absolutely nothing in the app store, means that people will need to resort to commandline tools to install and update app.

All of this obviously will not decrown Windows from a OS with mass appeal. Since the software most people need runs well on windows.

Another example, in my crowd it is quite rude to send a docx file between people assuming people want to use or have access to Microsoft office, so everything is in PDF. Yet in many other crowd docx is the default. We were never bounded by the need of a specific office software, while others do not enjoy the same luxury.

There is needs by different groups of people, and that means they choose the OS that is most comfortable for them. Linux is not going to have 70% desktop adoption rate overnight, and no one is saying that. In fact both the quote in the article and this post explicitly dismissed "linux is ready for everyone" delusion. They are just comfortable in Linux, and what is wrong with that?

In 99% of cases I have seen, people pick their OS because it came preinstalled

Are they really picking their OS then?

But yes I agree, most people will just use what they have and Windows is the standard because they made sure it would become the standard.

Well the article lists at least 8 groups of people with real and common professions that can't run on Linux because it wont cut it.

Linux is not going to have 70% desktop adoption rate overnight, and no one is saying that. In fact both the quote in the article and this post explicitly dismissed “linux is ready for everyone” delusion. They are just comfortable in Linux, and what is wrong with that?

Yeah, Linux isn't for everyone yet people here on Lemmy defend it like a religion.

It depends a lot. If you are never using MSOffice for anything other than the most basic writing Libreoffice does cut it. Linux overall does just work for the most part if the person using it just plans on using the browser anyway. Everything else is spot on tho.

And funny thing about the gaming performance bit, I'm no expert and this is anecdotal, but my games actually run better on Linux than Windows by default. Dunno why

. If you are never using MSOffice for anything other than the most basic writing Libreoffice does cut it.

Does it tho? It can even render a simple, unformatted bullet list consistently:

Linux overall does just work for the most part if the person using it just plans on using the browser anyway.

With this I agree 100%.

Doesn't look like a important difference to me, rich text documents are meant to be adaptive. If you want it to look the same everywhere, export to a pdf.

What a bullshit, try to share a document with someone and then we'll talk about adaptive documents.

We're talking about Word documents, right? People hate when a line wraps in the information block, or their fold and hole marks move, each time anyone with LibreOffice touches their letters. Or their crop, bleed, registration, fold marks, color bars, and safety margins when they print anything professionally. Sorry people, but Word documents require precision sometimes. They look the same, even across several major Word versions. If LibreOffice can't guarantee that, then you can't use LibreOffice in an MS Office environment where precision is necessary, and this starts with letters.

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Thinking about doing this for my parents is giving me an anxiety attack, thanks OP.

It went smoothly, even smoother than I was suspecting. I just made sure to backup all their data, and made sure they had all their passwords for accounts.

I did this about a decade ago for my parents. Upgraded their computer last year and they told me they wanted to keep Linux on the new machine.

My dad wasn't convinced until his hoyle card games ran with wine though.

Recommending Linux is good; forcing it down someone's throat is not.

If parents are just comfy using Windows, it'll get them super frustrated when they'll face new issues coming from Linux use, as you just can't turn Linux into Windows and they never asked for it.

Now, if they complain about all the shit Windows throws at them, you can offer an alternative.

I see what you're saying, but it has gone down fine so far. My dad is completely computer-illiterate, every phone/computer he uses seems like it was found in an alien spacecraft to him, so changing from Windows to Linux doesn't make any difference to him. He just needs to be able to click the Chrome icon and then click the YouTube favorite button or the Hotmail favorite button.

My mom worked way back in the day for a corpo that used DOS systems, so she actually has remained slightly computer savvy. She was worried about the change until I showed her that the Spotify app worked perfectly, she could read her emails, open Word documents, and print stuff.

I also explained that the computer would run faster and would be safer for them to use because the malware that effects Windows doesn't effect Linux, and that made sense to her.

If she had insisted I keep them on Windows, I would have. But she was just concerned that nothing would work the same and she would have to become some techie to figure it out. Once I addressed those concerns, she was alright with switching.

Congrats. I did that several years ago and they had no issues. even have my grandmother using it as well. As longs as the internet icon was in the same spot she's good.

Nice. Take that, adware installers! Web exploits and phishing are still (minor) risks though, since they're mostly platform agnostic.

tried to do that but mom wanted some esoteric bookkeeping software to function - so back to windows for her

I'm about to do this for my mother as well. I just switched back myself and found Mint has come a very long way. The last time I ran it as my main OS 10 years ago it was pretty demanding from the user, but mint now is probably more user friendly than Windows.

@OP, can you advise what themes etc you used to make it look like windows 7?

I'm about to switch one of my parents over, I think that would make the transition easier.

I can't remember the exact name for the themes I used, but if your go into the Linux Mint theming section and search "Windows" you will get several results.

I don't know if there is a Windows 7 theme specifically, you would have to look for that yourself. I also did little things like allign and resize their desktop icons the same way their Windows desktop looked. I changed the default folder colors to a tan-ish color to look similar to the Windows folder colors. My mom could tell it looked different, but it was close enough.

Making their app icons look the same and be in the same rough location as their Windows machine is probably the most important. My Mom loves the Spotify desktop app, so I made sure to install it from the software center and pin the icon into the taskbar right where she was used to seeing it.

Make sure their browser home page is set the same too, and any bookmarks they have.

Also, guide them through the new install. Have them click through all the typical tasks they do. I had my mom sit with me and showed her how Spotify opened up and looked exactly the same as it did on her Windows install. We played some music and I showed her how to adjust the little volume knob in the Mint toolbar. I had her print some documents, browse the web, look at pictures and videos she had saved on her drive, stuff like that.

That will make them feel much more comfortable with the change. There is a balance between trying to get everything to look identical, and helping your parents become comfortable with something new.