Canadians aren’t smoking enough to keep up with the supply

sighofannoyance@lemmy.world to World News@lemmy.world – 454 points – Wasted Weed: Canada's Disposal of 3.7 Million Pounds of Cannabis Since 2018 | High Times
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Wasted Weed: Canada’s Disposal of 3.7 Million Pounds of Cannabis Since 2018 Oversupply has been a real issue for the cannabis industry.

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Export or stop making so much (or discount it, or give it away).

«Industry expert and consultant Farrell Miller notes that the majority of this discarded product was destroyed for being too old and having too little THC. “There is no demand for old and low-THC products, so manufacturers of finished products are not buying this biomass as inputs,” she said. “It’s likely low-quality material with no value. “As consumers become more savvy with packaging dates on dried cannabis products, this trend will only continue.”»

They claim nobody wants it

That makes no sense. Low content strains are perfect for all sorts of concentrates.

Yeah, any trim or whack weeds could easily be repurposed for concentrates. Theres probably more to it than just "nobody wants it"

The size of the market was vastly overestimated. Every pothead wanted a slice of the business, so they all started up companies thinking there was unlimited growth potential. It was rapidly saturated and now we're in the collapse and consolidation phase, exacerbated by the higher interest rates and inflation.

Canada's population is similar to California, but it's producing weed enough for a country several times its size.

Plus the black market still exists, albeit in a small scope, due to price, quality, variety, or loyalty reasons.

This is exactly what happened in Oklahoma

And people from all around Oklahoma traveled there just for their low prices.

Whats the overall legal status of cannabis in canada?

It's legal all across Canada at the federal level. The provinces have the ability to regulate administrative aspects such as where it can be sold, who can sell it, how much it is taxed, where it can be grown, etc.

However, unlike the USA, criminal law is the same across the whole country. There are no provincial criminal codes. So, provinces have no ability to criminalize cannabis.

My state started up sales last year and I watched the prices drop a lot over the year. It's mostly sold in eighths and the average eighth went from $40 to $20 for high quality products

It's cheaper and probably way easier to use higher potency cannabis

What's more value than 100% if the product is considered worthless as flower?

Taking a write down for tax purposes versus trying to move crap product, just like any other industry.

There’s more than enough of that to go around.

Doesn’t make economic sense to process low value plants into low value extracts.

Not everyone wants a 85% THC extract with a minimal CBD profile.

It's still more efficient with way less energy usage, wear and tear on your machines, and residue build up, to distill high potency strains into concentrates and then dilute that down to the desired potency, rather than chew through enormous amounts of plant matter to get to the same concentrate.

So why is their hemp industry not thriving. They should be making fabrics and paper with it.

I’m fairly certain hemp isn’t made from the flower, which is the part of the plant that is sold for weed consumption.

What they are throwing away is the flower. The part they would use to make hemp is already long gone.

In addition, in order to get useful fibers, plants are sown at a density of at least several hundred seeds per square meter. They stretch to 2-3 meters tall trying to win the race to the sunlight. Stalks of plants grown in the typical indoor grow way are only good as very low grade biomass for methane digestion or as chips that might serve in hemplime or hempcrete. An insignificant market so far as these technologies are still going through the regulatory processes to be used more widely.

There are effective dual cropping systems that can yield cannabinoids from flower and get useful fiber but it is not common yet either.

I’m fairly certain that it’s the same plant with less active cannabinoids. The gender doesn’t matter. They can use all of it.

Them discarding the flower doesn't mean they arent using the hemp part.

I would imagine they seperate those almost immediately if not the moment it's out of the ground. If they're using a combine to harvest it, then that probably seperates it.

They should sell it for biomass fuel. :)

I think Hemp is a different species that has low amounts of thc.

Same species! The line between them is actually pretty blurry and some strains are inbetween. They're just different general 'types' within the same species

Supply and demand. No one wants it for the price they're charging.

I don't think you understand that the bottom end of the weed market in Canada is literally $0 per giant ziplock bag of homegrown that your friend can't possibly smoke all of.

People arent willing to pay anything for low quality weed because it literally grows on trees... 1lb per plant is a very modest yield for Southern / Eastern Ontario growing conditions and will yield ~1814g or ~5442 normal sized joints, ~15 / day, every single day of the year. And it literally takes no extra work than typical gardening until harvest season ... There's just no market for low quality weed.

Then it's time to start selling 2 ziplock bags at $1. We're fucking late stage capitalism, companies need to realize, just because they build it, doesn't mean they get to charge whatever the fuck they want. If they can't compete with your friend's shitty leftover weed, then maybe they're in the wrong business, because even McDonald's can sell shitty fake meat burgers for $1.

I haven't seen a 1$ burger at McDonald's in almost 5 years.

they claim it, but it's just spin put on by the company. Any THC levels are usable in some fashion, even if not directly smok-able flower.

even 5% flower could be used to create potent extracts.

These are companies who bet big on production for international growth, and that never materialized. And now they're stuck with production capabilities that aren't profitable. Aurora Cannabis lost over $1 billion in 2022 over it's misguided growth plans and killed itself.

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How about we change the title juuuuust a bit...

Since 2018 Canada Destroyed 3.7 Million Pounds of Cannabis Rather Than Let Prices Fall

That's not really that accurate. The article explicitly says that much of the waste is caused by growers who overproduced low quality weed, when most of the market is focused on really high potency cannabis.

I miss low quality weed, I feel like I get too high now. Maybe I'm just getting old lol

There was a giggle quality to that old nineties brick weed that the modern stuff just doesn't have.

The experience went from, "that stain in the carpet is hilarious. Who threw my burrito against the wall?" to, "the cosmic, like, existence, is, whoa, did I think that? I can't find my face."

Modern stuff is so potent that I can't stay conscious on even the smallest of hits. Great for sleep aid, useless for doing anything.

Sometimes I just wanna laugh at Ren and Stimpy while I've got a pile of cheeseburgers in a feed bag strapped around my neck, you know?

Helps to mix with CBD at whatever ratio you may need. A good mellow CBD like Charlotte’s Angel is nice.

Edibles, particularly gummies. I get a couple oz and make my own oil. Then use that to make my own gummies. You can really dial in how much you want/need if you use gummy molds (i.e. 2.5 bears = chill; 5= moon; 10=fucking Pluto, Andromeda, I don't know....what the fuck is happening?)

Shit also GREATLY extends your weed as well. I went from smoking 2oz over like 4 months, the 2oz lasting a whole year because gummies are more potent. It also helps your lungs and doesn't make you feel like shit afterwards. Veeeery clean highs.

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How does throwing away cannabis prevent prices from falling?

When demand is high and supply is low they raise prices but when supply is high and demand is low they don't lower prices, the lower supply.

Okay but...couldn't they just NOT grow more instead?

That would have been the smart thing to do but they continued to grow when it wasn't selling fast enough to begin with so I don't think we're talking about the most brilliant minds.

Economics 101: additional supply is counteracted by lower demand (meaning lower prices to compete for that demand)

Economics 102: no single company controls supply. If you don't make it, someone else will.

Also if you want to decrease supply you can simply grow less, there's no need to throw out perfectly good product.

No single company contols supply.

if you want to decrease supply you can simply grow less

Pick one. You can't have both. Either you have the ability to control supply or you don't.

I very obviously meant that you could control your own personal supply by growing less.

Can't help but notice you didn't actually contradict my statement though.

I didn't have to. You contradicted yourself.

I see, so you're just going to double down on your own misunderstanding after I've already clarified it to you. Makes sense.

You seem like you've got all the answers already. Why bother asking a question?

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It's a weird way to frame misspeculating and overestimating demand, but whatever makes you feel better, industry.

It's probably got a lot to do with the market being relatively new. I imagine things will settle down in the coming years as producers gain real data to base demand estimates off of.

Also, I think initially some people were conflating support for legalization with actual demand. There are many people that support legalization who don't actually use the product.

Weirdly phrased title. The Canadian government has no role in throwing away product or setting the price, that falls on the businesses that manufacture and sell the weed.

What if I told you Canada was a place?

Want to Chime in since there's a lot of weird misinformation and conjecture in the comments:

The over-production was a business decision by many of the producers. A bad one. But they knew they were producing more flower than the Canadian market needed at any price point. Dropping price down isn't going to dramatically increase the consumption as polling / research by stats can shows the people smoking todtay, are the same who were smoking illegally before, and that the overall Cannabis market (while huge) isn't something that was ballooning.

I had invested in numerous stocks in the industry back when legalization started to gain ground. As an investor and reading the reports, one thing was clear. Everyone of the biggest producers believed they were going to be international gods of pot and be able to sell world wide. Many hedged billions on producing enough flower for the American market with hopes that the US would follow along very shortly.

These poor business decisions led to the large producers, such as Canopy, and Aurora from making over-building production to the point that even if they shut several of their operations, they would still over-produce for the Canadian market.

at the end, this was some MBA deciding that profit margins would be higher by writing off the excess weed instead of spending additional resources to use it in other products (it still can be used for extracts and edibles even if low quality)

This is what happens when you create a new industry (Producers) and let it be run by the MBA's and giant businesses instead of those who are actually involved in the industry in the first place.

as soon as I saw these happening I sold out on their stocks. IOf you go look up these companies current valuations, they're almost worthless and worth pennies compared to when they started due to their horrific management. (Aurora Cannabis lost 1 Billion in a year)

End stage capitalism: when you realize the population you’re selling to has a finite number and neglect to scale to parameter and still feel like you’re owed.

This is a huge problem I have with America. It's okay to stop growing at a certain point. Increases don't have to be infinite.

Yeah there is a lot of toxic beliefs surrounding money there. Take the stock market for example: where they count ‘potential gain’ as their money before it has a chance to pan out. counting their chickens before they hatch and if it doesn’t come true then they expect insurance on it as if it’s a true loss and they’ve been a victim of robbery.

And Bail outs shouldn’t be a thing. Especially on businesses that abandon their employees to rely on tipping culture. That’s the wrong definition for bailing out someone.

Though even the derivative products are still competing with the other products. You don't really need to get high from flower and an extract. You might get both for variety, but consumption of one will slow consumption of the other.

And yeah, it was dumb to assume that even if the US legalized it that there wouldn't suddenly be a bunch of US producers wanting to get in on it. It's not hard to figure out how to produce it. The plant can grow in all kinds of conditions and the hardest part is keeping it from reproducing more than you'd like.

but consumption of one will slow consumption of the other.

Someone needs to tell my wallet this :p

Yeah, all very interesting Mr Canada Money Bags.

I just wanna know when you're gonna post me some free weed to the UK?

Well, not keen on being on an international criminal list for illegal exports of Cannabis products. I'm no Mark Emery (thats good).

But if you find yourself in the GTA, I would gladly take you to a pot shop and give you my recommendations.

Can they sell it to Michigan, or would that be a problem federally speaking?

Not under current US Federal regulations. While individual states have somewhat legalized it. US Federal regulations have it strictly prohibited and illegal. So it is illegal to import.

these companies had banked on US federal deregulation happening faster.

Can one compost old weed? Turn it into weed mulch? Could someone buy it wholesale and make something else? This feels like a problem a little R and D could solve.

Sounds like the price is too high. Stupid fucking government. How dare you pride yourself on high prices. Are you not trying to disrupt the illegal trade? Why the fuck are you using their numbers, retards? GEE WHY ISNT ANYBODY BUYING OUR GREEDY FUCKING OUNCES and man, you should see the fucking website. Doug ford can go fuck himself with a forklift.

Try this amazing philosophy: if you can make that much, but can't sell that much, it's cuz it ain't worth that much not cuz nobody will buy it. Unless it's, you know, shit. AND FURTHERMORE, since clearly the government is going to read this, you might want to doublecheck that quality control isn't just taking the cheque and AFKing, cuz from this end that's how it looks!

There's a lot of misinformation in this post, clearly based on emotion rather than the reality:

Sounds like the price is too high.

While this is true in some cases, most of these LP's are producing flower that can be picked up for ~$100 an ounce. For Canadian Weed, that's great. Especially considering on legalization it was closer to $400. Not a single dealer I used to use pre-legalization can match the price point of legal weed right now.

This is also a luxury product. Not a necessity. It will be priced where the market bears. The problem with our current over-supply is manufacturer driven. Producing more weed than Canada would consume, even if it was free for "business" reasons.

Stupid fucking government.

Government doesn't set prices. Cannabis prices have actually bucked the inflationary trends and have gone down overall in the last couple years.

Are you not trying to disrupt the illegal trade?

The illegal trade isn't going to be shut down overnight. Especially given that most places allow personal growing, so it's going to happen with people selling to eachother. Even if it's technically illegal. However, the illegal criminal organizations that used to thrive and require pot sales? Those are decimated and their involvement in the Cannabis trade is decreasing year after year: https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/trnsprnc/brfng-mtrls/prlmntry-bndrs/20200930/026/index-en.aspx

Why the fuck are you using their numbers, retards?

what? also really with the use of "retard"... really what are you. 12? Come on man. be an adult.

you should see the fucking website.

if you're basing your entire purchasing / and angry rant above entirely on the ocs website for purchasing, you're missing out 90% of the actual Cannabis market. Most sales are through retail. NOT online from the government. Yes the OCS is expensive as fuck. It's the government run retail outlet. Don't go there. Order from a local store. you will find much better pricing, and might even meet some wonderful people and budtenders too

Doug ford can go fuck himself with a forklift.

AMEN! 100%.

if you can make that much, but can’t sell that much, it’s cuz it ain’t worth that much not cuz nobody will buy it.

I highly recommend you to read why they were making that much. They never intended to sell that much to us Canadians. it' was stupid business decisions to try and pry into the US market before legalization even happened there. Even if they gave this stuff away for free, it would be more than Canadian's would consume because it's more than the demand. Cannabis isn't a staple or necessary daily product (for MOST people). it's a luxury and therefore there's a ceiling to the demand. Unlike staples and products we need to live, which has no ceiling.

AND FURTHERMORE, since clearly the government is going to read this, you might want to doublecheck that quality control isn’t just taking the cheque and AFKing, cuz from this end that’s how it looks!

Really? Have you had a really bad string of experiences with quality? I've been smoking for 20+ years, and the stuff I've gotten from the store, (while dry compared to older stuff), is 100x stronger, and a better smoke than anything I ever got illegally before. While much of the numbers are inflated (since we need better regulation on testing), the quality of weed now is truly astounding compared to how it used to be.

I can recommend you some amazing strains if you'd like.

Other than the primo strains, Canadian legal weed is cheaper than buying it from a dealer. I pick up ounces for $100.

Pot shop on every corner in Ontario. Shops are usually empty anytime I go in. Picking up whole ounces for $100. It was a scam run by the province to sell dispensary licenses because Doug Ford only knows how to run scams instead of doing good business based on good policy.

Really depends where you are. But there's a massive oversaturation in some areas. Downtown Stouffville for example has like 15 right now. Stouffville has a population of 40,000. but at the same time, they are also serving other areas who have no shops. For example Markham and Richmond Hill both opted to ban sales of pot in their areas, as well as public consumption (bylaw)

I hate Ford. But I don't have a problem with anyone who wants a license being able to get one. Cannabis is a luxury product and like all retail/consumer luxury goods, there's no need to regulate the business for "success". let the free market sort this out. Yes some of them will fail. That's free market.

If the shop you frequent is almost always empty, it's likely because it's not a well regarded shop or chain. The store I go to (not chain) always has people in it. Even when I show up at 9am for opening, there is always people in it. but it's also a little further away from any other pot shops and has a good reputation

I've never used cannabis in my life, but last year I got a wild hair and decided to buy a gummy. It had no effect on me save for wanting to go to bed early, but I did my part y'all.

It's a well known phenomena that some people just don't get high their first time(s). I knew a guy since high school and years after that was basically immune to it. People gave him huge vape bags and massive doses of edibles and it never had an effect. Never saw the guy forget a single word. Then apparently at some point it did, because he smokes now.

There are also people who are terrible at metabolizing gummies. I'm not one of them. Give me 2mg and I'm good. Give me 20mg and I'm curled up in the fetal position in bed waiting for the visions and monsters in my head to go away.

Same experience. My gf felt like she had a cold. We both tried it 3x with same results.

Everyone's dose is unique. You'd have to slowly move the dose up (without overdoing it, because edibles last awhile) to the desired effect.

I tried 5 mg to start I think? Idk I just wanted some cereal and slept well.

Sounds like it did it's job.

out of curiosity, what do you expect? This is something I've encountered with a lot of first timers. They aren't sure what to expect, so when they don't get that, they aren't sure they're high.

Cannabis affects everyone differently. Different strains will have different affects too (terpenes are interesting!)

I thought I'd feel kind of mellow and goofy. I think the reason I didn't react much is because I'm on naltrexone which is used in anti-substance abuse treatment (I use it for trichotillomania).

You bought "a gummy"? i had no idea that they sold singles.

Yep - single 10 mg gummies are a thing. Less common than 2 x 5 mg but there's a couple.

The Health Canada cap is problematic - how much of this biomass could've been used to produce varying higher doses of edibles that actually match what most consumers want? (aside from cannabis newbies dipping their toe in - anecdote, not data, but those are the only folks I really see buying these. Everyone else makes their own or buys higher dosed ones off the unregulated market)

how much of this biomass could’ve been used to produce

All of it.

Not even edibles. If they wanted to spend some additional resources, they could have made extracts, oils, edibles, etc out of this biomass. Even low quality weed will have THC and other Cannabis that can be removed via numerous extractions methods.

The fact that instead of doing that, they're cutting their losses and throwing out product means it's a business decision to do this burning. NOT a decision based on the market or community. The LP system in Canada has sadly given all the growing power to a few giant corporations up front who are in it for money, not better products.

Heck, when former, Anti-Cannabis police chief suddenly started investing back in 2017. you knew it was all about the money.

Gummies in Canada have really really low levels of THC due to regulation. You have to eat like, a bunch to feel any kind of significant high.

Supply exceeded demand, it happens.

Demand increases to meet supply?

Not all products have an infinite demand curve though. In this case, a luxury product with a finite consumer base. Even if they gave it away for free, there will still be the majority of the population who will not want to use it.

unlike things like groceries, which have a constant demand due to being staples and required for life sustenance. If you gave them away for free, you end up with Hoarding and unlimited demand.

Send it to Germany :)
We need it soon (hopefully)

Scholz's "Berlin-only-3-dispensary-see-how-it-goes" plan is insultingly bad. Clearly Germans want weed. Give it to them. Canadian productivity and Uruguayan productivity didn't slump when we legalized.

no, but if you listened to the advertising by my local MP's and Mayor, it destroyed the fabric of this country and the worst decision any government has done in Canadian history

They fucked everything up. I know there were big issues with major gangs making money ect..... but no one seems to get that there were soooooooo many mom and pop operations making a little tax free money that went direct into the communities. They were buying quads , snowmobiles from local dealerships. Paying cash to local restaurants. There were people who couldn't find other jobs for reasons that could trim and grow to support themselves. It was a great industry for the lower to middle class to rise up without being screwed .

Why would they be able to selfishly make money on the black market without paying any taxes though? That isn't fair to the rest of us with legal jobs.

I'm not jealous of them. It's cool they get to live off of weed without being jailed. But that takes away money that can be used to fund health care, hospital, schools... Which everyone needs to pay for. And don't mention billionaires not paying any taxes. I am more pissed at billionaires obviously, but I'm just taking issue with your presentation of reality, which I think should not be idealized.

The monopoly the government has on weed here in Quebec sucks though, it means the people you mention cannot do what they're doing legally.

I have yet to see the government using pot taxes to build any of the things they promised. No rehab centers. They are filling there coffers. I would rather have you and I spending the money locally then the government's promises. Nothing is coming to the cities. At least before it came back.

I was talking about the regular taxes every business pays or collects (sales tax, employee taxes etc.). Not the rest which probably doesn't constitue the majority of the contribution of weed companies to the legal economy anyway.

There are 20 sqdc in quebec. Trois-Rivieres, my hometown, has a single one which is +- 20 min away from my house while Montreal, which has 10x more people than my town has only 8 of them.

Im unsure about the black market in other town, but my coworker still grow 30-40 tree/yrs outside.

Oregon has way too much pot too. I'm starting to see signs for $20 ounces. Pretty soon they'll be giving it away free with a fill-up.

Yes, I realize it's illustrating how old I am to talk about fill-up freebees like it's still the 1990s.

Time to repurpose the land for growing real food rather than pollutants.

Actually hemp decontaminates the soil by removing toxic compounds.

And people just use it spew mind-altering substances into the air, causing it to affect even those who didn't ask for it.

BTW, hemp can also be used for cooking. But they'd rather smoke it.

Are you canadian? 🙊

Evening weather report: 14 degrees C, Smoke (Yes, smoke, not smog) Average AQI of over 400 and I'm pretty sure the sensors are in a better area than the residential one I live in. People filling the already crowded area with all kinds of smoke ranging from tobacco to whatever weeds they find to wet pieces of wood. There's problematic gasses seeping into my room at ~0100 right when I'm getting comfortable while sleeping, makes me wake up with a headache. Result: Increased overall fatigue; Reduced ability to work; Reduced QOL.

I have a pretty good reason to have a problem with smokers. Automotive pollution stopped being a direct health hazard ever since laws for keeping the Catalytic Converters in working condition started being enforced.

P.S.: Forgot to say: Guess my location with this.