A Vermont mom called police to talk to her son about stealing. He ended up handcuffed and sedated
apnews.com
What happened next that evening in May 2021 is the basis for a lawsuit by the mother alleging that Burlington police used excessive force and discriminated against her unarmed son, who is Black and has behavioral and intellectual disabilities.
After he failed to hand over the last of the stolen e-cigarettes, two officers physically forced him to do so, then Cathy Austrian’s son was handcuffed and pinned to the ground as he screamed and struggled, according to a civil lawsuit filed Tuesday and police body-camera video shared with The Associated Press by the American Civil Liberties Union of Vermont.
The teen eventually was injected with a ketamine, a sedative, then taken to a hospital, according to the lawsuit and video.
If you have a problem and you call the cops you now have two problems
Edit: Also, who administered the ketamine? Had they received training in appropriate dosing? Or did some dumb cop just shove a needle into a kid and hope he didn't die.
Or did some malicious cop just shove a needle into a kid and hope he did die?
Turns out I have a small shred of hope for humanity after all
Don't worry we can get rid of that
Thanks it's not fun
Usually it’s administered by EMS. At least here it is.
At least it’s supposed to be. Cops generally only have slightly better medical training than you’re average cpr/fa/aed cert holder.
Basically, it’s just enough they can say they tried to keep that guy they just shot alive long enough for EMS to show up.
Say it with me, All Cops Are Bastards
Always.
All Carsalesmen Are Bastards. - Defund the dealerships.
All Firemen Are Drunks.
Edit: I know who the downvotes are from!
Obviously the police are the criminals here, but that mom...
They clearly didn't grow up being told what I was always told: "if you've got a problem and you call the police, now you've got two problems."
Yeah this is some abusive, privileged bullshit and I really hope this idiot learned a lesson. I also hope her child reminds her of this shit anytime she starts mounting her high horse in the future.
Yes, the elderly woman that adopted an at-needs child of color is the one being abusive and privileged.
The abusive, privileged bullshit is your comment.
She called the cops on her own kid
She mistakenly thought that calling the cops to talk to her child about not stealing would help him understand why it's wrong and what the stakes are. She's an old white woman. She didn't realize that cops wouldn't treat her large, black child as subhuman.
She was stupid and ignorant, but the cops are the monsters here. Don't get it twisted with your own relationships with your parents. This isn't that.
Insanely weird to project your parental issues on a lady calling the cops on her adopted black child, but being old is not an excuse for not being aware of the century long issue of cops treating black people poorly.
there was a time where media portrayed that as a reasonable thing to do, the police would come and talk to their kid. I've heard stories about it happening. Hell when i kid we got caught being destructive and the cops who caught us took us on tour of where we could end up. We got brought in the truck straight to the cells. It is a foolish thought but a person who holds some idyllic model in their heads sometimes are blinded by it.
She has a black lives matter sign in front of her house.
She isnt senile, and she is aware of a movement dedicated to dealing with police aggression.
Her age isnt an excuse. She clearly should have known better. Its insane to excuse her behavior.
When I was in cubs as a child, they took us to a police station and the cops talked to us about various things, we got our fingerprints taken (for us to keep, not their system) and we got to check out the jail cells.
Cops have definitely been used for educational purposes in the past. I don't remember much of it specifically, but i remember it being a great experience.
Love that your best retort is "no u".
???
There was no "no u" here.
Are you whiny about the fact that they projected their parental issues onto anyone who correctly judged the idiot for calling the cops? Thats their projection, that they said.
Correctly noting the idiot should have known better about the older-than-her issue of cops beating black folk for the sin of being black has nothing to do with anyones parents.
Telling someone not to project their problems isnt a "no u," but its cute your best retort was to brag about how poorly you read.
Cops brutalize a child. All your energy is being spent complaining about mommy. How IS your mom doing these days anyway? 🤣
All my energy? Are you bed ridden? It does not take energy to point out you shouldnt call the cops on black children for not real problems.
And.... Bud? Do you think that mild criticism of a single person means Im not criticizing the cops? Whats this limp dick whataboutism shit youre trying to pull?
Do you need help? The brain fog seems to really be dragging you down.
You definitely seem very stable and reasonable. Lol
Lol, says the guy who thinks internet comments take effort and projects mommy issues like youre a drive up movie theater
Keep on struggling bud, she will love you some day Im sure
What kind of idiot calls the cops on their black son expecting any kind of positive interaction?
Oh... right...
The white kind...
(grrr!)
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna14380
My mom was this stupid
I was actually wondering about that. Like as a white person, I don't want to over step boundaries, but even I'm not surprised.
But this makes a whole lot more sense.
https://i.imgflip.com/6tj4fe.png
People like her only love the system, not their own kids
She has been lied to her whole life that the police are there to help. She learned a quick, painful lesson that it isn't true.
She is not the victim, her son is, and she abused her son.
It's a plainly obvious fact to anyone with internet access and insight that the police are very obviously NOT there to help you, and instead of accepting the truth, she chose her delusions of a safe and just world, and her son paid the price.
We have the responsibility to know and act on the truth.
Ignorance is NEVER an excuse.
Damn... That was pretty retarded dawg.
Defending child abuse is pretty retarded. Dawg.
That is such a short sighted and dumb response. Really, you can't just see beyond your own prejudices? Oh, she is white so she must be the devil, she must love the system and hate her own child. Really now? Where you there? Were you watching her every move for the past ten years to draw that conclusion, or are you just writing down some dumb "hurr-durr evil white is bad" comment?
You're right. She was probably just stupid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
Holy shit, I think we found her Lemmy account
This is a minor problem compared to the fucking forced ketamin injections but can we please use more words to describe these types of issues. Like, specific ones. "Behavioral issues and intellectual disabilities" has also been used to describe the kid that almost beat a teacher to death for saying he shouldn't have his Nintendo in school and the flying guy that tried to kill the judge. If there is no difference between how we describe them and this kid, we are just reinventing calling people retarded in increasingly elaborate ways.
I see your point, but that is a bigger can of worms than I think you are expecting. There are dozens of genetic or congenital disorders that can lead to intellectual disabilities and hundreds of acquired ones; all of which result in a range of severity. Also, "intellectual disabilities" and "behavioral problems" are very large buckets of different manifestations. In order to differentiate in the way that you are asking for, they would need to report exact diagnoses and give a detailed description of the individual to differentiate them, and even then, there would need to be a lot of context and clarification if they are to avoid misinterpretation or misunderstanding of any terms or descriptions used.
I'm not saying it's easy. When I say specific I just mean more specific than the huge bucket we currently have. Maybe 5 buckets so that this kid doesn't need to share a bucket with the Nintendo kid i mentioned.
Describing specific issues would violate their right to privacy.
I'm sure there is some middle ground we can find. His mother is named in the article and his actions were explained in depth so I don't see a problem with being a bit more specific with what caused the behaviour. Especially when the phrase is also used to describe quite violent people.
I have to wonder why you want a clearer picture of what the boy was suffering from, 'cause from my vantage point it seems it's only to satisfy your own curiosity rather than solve a larger issue.
Imo it's none of our business what his diagnoses was as he was the victim here.
If it's not relevant they dont need to bring it up. If it is relevant I would like to know what way it is relevant. I am fine with either but not both.
Don't forget that the reason I want there to be more detail is because they used the expression as an excuse for that guy that jumped the judge. A guy that was articulate and friendly right up until he turned feral. I think it is doing this kid a disservice to put these two very different people under the same vague header. It's what they did with the r-slur and it's why it's considered a slur today.
Again, in this particular instance he was the victim.
Blanket rules in revealing diagnoses do not take into account individual's right to privacy. I prefer to respect that right vs your request to know.
I don't know why "a bit more specific" is being read as reveal his medical history.
Because being specific is a breach of privacy. It's really none of our business unless ofc one is a busybody.
I guess we will have to let "behavioral issues and mental disabilities" just become the new retard. There is nothing to be done about it because I would hate to be a busy body.
You're the only one saying re___d. That says more about you than any system you're complaining about.
Bro just wants to read retard on the paper. Lol
Meh, not criminalizing children is usually a good thing, and language is an important part of that.
What do you say to the armed, violent, unstable nutcase with a gun?
Good morning, Officer.
What sound does a cow make? Moo. What sound does a dog make? Woof. What sound does a cat make? Meow. What sound does a pig make? UP AGAINST THE WALL MOTHER FUCKER.
Absolute definition of white privilege to think that calling the police to lecture her black son would yield positive outcomes.
I say this as a white person.
Police are not an education service. They're armed men who have been trained to be aggressive.
They like to pretend they are. Schools used to invite them into classrooms in the before times.
I hear they're allergic to classrooms now
Right in the first part, but for the second: police come in more than one gender and the training is the same.
(Afaik on the training part - I welcome being proven wrong!)
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56834733
I’m on mobile but didn’t see anything having to do with gender differences in training, only country based, which was not my point at all.
Ah, thought you were saying the training hours in the US are the same as the rest of the world.
In most civilised countries, the police is trained to de-escalate conflicts and when the do nedd to be agressive, they are trained for it to not be excessive and certainly not letha..
Also in most civilised countries, this takes several years not just 6 months.
That said, I hope that excessive aggression is not taught in the US police and that it is down to bad culture or single bad apples or regions.
I don't think police in other countries are much better. I'm in Canada and our cops can be every bit as bad as American cops.
And then people wonder why as a neurodivergent person, I've passed over several obscenely lucrative contracts simple because they required me to go to the US for any extent of time.
Buddy, I'm not neurodivergent and I also straight up refuse to set foot in that place. I don't even feel particularly comfortable sharing a border with them at this point. Lots of the people are great, but the government and many of its institutions scare the hell out of me.
You live in a country with the fucking RCMP and yet have let the media convince you their institutions are scary.
I'm not saying the RCMP (or local cops) are much better, and we have plenty of our own problems. These days those mainly stem from the import of MAGA-style "conservatism," and I'll admit that things have been getting noticeably worse around here.
That said, we don't have school shootings pretty much every week, insane amounts of gun violence, the overreach of homeland security (my biggest reason for not wanting to set foot down there - crossing the border), people having to mentally run a cost/benefit analysis if they need to go to the hospital, talk of civil war, half our political representatives being clinically insane (here it's a little less), people going to jail for weed (a small bit of good that's happened here during a period of general backslide), the alphabet agencies (the RCMP has historically done some heinous shit but it's child's play compared to the CIA), the fact that a rapist who actively says he wants to destroy democracy has a very good chance of becoming president again, etc, etc, etc.
So yeah, I'll happily stay in the country with the RCMP.
We literally have a rapist prime minister right now.
Canadian cops are scary too, but it’s not even close. US cops are five times more likely to kill. And Canadian cops don’t have qualified immunity.
And yet when they run 14 year olds over with their cruiser in a school playground nothing happens.
Same when they shoot 16 yr old girls in the the head because they stole some booze.
I did a quick search for this but nothing came up. Do you have a link to an article?
Cars are the number one killer of children in Canada. We tolerate a disgusting amount of preventable traffic accidents in Canada, but comparing that to killing children by shooting them or putting them into deadly chokeholds is nonsensical.
No, because there is no article. Happened to a friend of mine.
Trust me bro.
There's also no articles about the 14 year old kid shot in the back by a RCMP officer in a local town no matter how much I google, but I know that happened too, so why don't you go ahead and google some obscure local things you know happened and see if there's any documentation.
It can be a 100% true. With no evidence, it might as well be 100% false.
You can fuck off.
Naturally you should do what you're comfortable with. I will say that the most upsetting news stories from any place aren't representative of what it's like to live there. As a lifelong resident I don't know anyone personally who has been shot or shot at in the U.S, and don't know anyone who has been wrongfully arrested or assaulted by the police.
That's not to say it's not a problem that needs to be addressed, it is. Just if someone is turning down opportunities they would otherwise accept out of fear of this thing, I would say they may be overweighting the risk.
It reminds me how my mom would always text me when I lived in the city, "did you hear about this shooting? Are you ok?" But I wouldn't have even been aware there was an incident. There are a lot of people in the world. The absolute crime rate has overall been going down. But the ability for us to hear about horrible incidents has only increased.
I talked to a guy a while ago that genuinely would not believe I've never owned or handled a gun. Absolutely would not accept it and said I was lying lol. I think I briefly saw a hunting rifle in my uncle's closet as a kid but that's pretty common even outside the US. There are people out there that really think we're ALL armed to the teeth I guess
Fine with us. We don’t want cowards walking around, quivering and jumpy.
We dont want you speaking for us. And there are more of us than they are of you.
Conservatives don’t understand that they’re in the minority; that their representatives are only in power due to gerrymandering; that it isn’t a fluke that the mainstream media goes against them. It’s sadly and tragically lost on them that they’re freaks.
So when are you going to deport NRA, cuntbag?
Ooo big man. So cool.
The fuck does that even mean.
It means they're one of the macho dipshits that make us all look like gun happy lunatics :(
But you already have cops doing that now.
What's that about jumpy cowards?
Let's have police reform and additional training or more services!
Also...
PARENT YOUR OWN KIDS. Don't call the cops on your underage children to "teach a lesson" you're the parent, YOU do it. That call doesn't come with a lesson, it comes with a pretty larceny charge to help with your kid's "bad week".
This. Honestly this is the one comment in this cesspool that makes sense. The thing that failed here is parenting.
And parenting a disabled kid for crying out loud. What a shit show.
When you have a hammer everything looks like a nail.
And when all you have is ketamine ...
Everything looks like a horse?
Can we start IQ testing for cop hiring?
They do already. Average intelligence or higher? Rejected.
They filter out those who score too high.
Is having the cops beat your black son the new falling down at walmart
Mom fucked around and found out! Reminds me of this story https://youtu.be/OvPJGW1yqkw?si=BJwfD1bCykog2wrQ
I feel the struggle, my little brother has been in and out of prison for years. He just has to be cool for a while, catch rides to work and the store, and he could pay off his fines and go back to normal life, but it always gets out of hand.
Cops have no mercy in their soul.
Yeah god bless the woman I’m sure she had good intentions - but she’s not living in some 1990s public service announcement where the nice policeman gives valuable lessons to children.
Police are like… an absolute last resort “I need someone shot” measure. The fact that we also have them (for no particular reason) also authorize things like reports for insurance related incidents is a pretty colossal failure of “the system” as a whole
Exactly this. I can’t imagine how sheltered I’d have to be to still believe calling the police to “teach someone a lesson” is anything but a catastrophically bad idea. And I’m pretty sheltered already!
What a
I'm 100% on board that this was unnecessary, but how should police handle something like this? It's a 230 pound 14 year old hormonal teenager that turned sullen and refused to comply.
Presumably the smart way would be to say "Ok your behavior is not ok but I'll leave you be for now until you cool down." and then just leave. I mean if you want to press charges you can come back any time. I don't quite understand why in the US everyone is arrested instead of getting "a summons" (?).
I'd also say that nicotine is often used for self medication by people with mental issues, including ADHD. Smoking is more prevalent. Vaping provides a much safer alternative. Not condoning 14 year olds vaping but it could explain why he wants them.
USING WORDS.
I don't think so. My guess is that sometimes the only way to deescalate is to leave someone alone. That's what you'd have to teach police. But presumably only a qualified mental health professional can answer that question.
Mental health student with his own emotional issues and that raised two small kids .
Yes, often the way to desecalate is to take space. It's anger management 101. If someone is not able to recognize they need space, the one able to should call for a time out (this is how time outs should be used by parents, not as punishment).
Police are trained to exert authority. It's not de-escalation training generally.
Which is why mental health professionals should accompany police in situations like this.
Thanks. Hmm, maybe police officers have mental health issues that prevent them from retreating and asserting their "authoritae". Maybe no amount of training or accompanying will help with that.
Police are trained to 'keep the peace' in a lot of situations. Like, in a bad traffic accident, the cops are there to direct traffic while the EMTs and Firefighters take the lead.
We just need to teach them to do the same with mental health workers and make that the standard for anything that's not a criminal complaint. They already do this with stuff like CPS calls in a lot of jurisdictions.
But yeah, a lot of cops are drawn to the job because they love power and authority. And it will take decades of restructuring of US policing to change that cultural tendency.
Liberals: "GUNS BAD!"
Also Liberals: "Calling the cops will get you killed!"
Fuck am I supposed to do?!
POC, LGBT and women: "We're the biggest gun purchasing demographic because we see what's coming." That's our right, and everyone but white liberals seems to be exercising it.
Did I make you uncomfortable? Sure as hell hope I did. The problem is our culture, not people like me.
I'll defend you if it comes to it, do my damndest if it comes to "trains", but please stop whining about gun owners. Stop whining about, "They want to exterminate trans people!" Get a fucking clue and work towards self-defense. FFS, stop losing votes.
I often read, "But gosh! What if the pigs exterminate ME personally?!" Either grow a pair and die with your boots on, or get the fuck out my face. This isn't a schoolyard tussle. We're entering a fight for American democracy, and for you gay and trans folks, it's a fight for your right to continue life.
Get in touch with your local John brown gun club. Not every lefty is anti gun.
Liberals are not left.
Yes, but one never knows if the liberals
doknow thatLiberals (in the US anyway) are centrist at best.
But they should be
Gun control laws exist at all because the right wanted to grab guns from Black Panthers who were simply defending themselves. Even the "gun grabber" rhetoric that comes from the right is ultimately projection.
Why do you want people uncomfortable with you having a gun? Do you have some sort of need to instill fear in people who aren't doing you any harm?
either you didnt read what they wrote or you are making the worst bad faith interpretation intentionally
This is what they wrote:
Seems like maybe you didn't read it.
i guess i didnt consider that you might have a problem with reading comprehension
Ah, insulting me rather than explaining what I supposedly misread. Sounds to me like I didn't actually misread anything and you just want to attack me for not being afraid of guns for some reason.
Sorry, I'm still not afraid of guns and you can't insult me into being afraid of them.
Nobody saying you should be afraid of guns. They're saying that you should be uncomfortable with disarming vulnerable people.
That's not what they said.
Again, this is what they said:
I don't know why you're trying to gaslight me when this is the second time I've pasted what they said.
Now I guess you'll insult me again?
You might be pasting it repeatedly but are you reading it? They're not trying to make you afraid. They're trying to explain the vulnerable people need guns and youre suggesting they shouldn't have them.
That is a lie.
Why are you lying?
My bad. you didn't actually say that. You're just arguing with someone who is trying to make sure the vulnerable people have the means to protect themselves.
How are you advocating for people?
That is another lie. I asked them a question and you started arguing with me.
Stop lying.
Liberals don't say "guns bad." They say "let's make sure only people who pass a background check can buy them."
But I guess the truth isn't relevant to your narrative.
I mean it's the same problem broad labels always have ... liberals the term is for everything left of Bernie Sanders to the ball park Joe Manchin depending on who you're talking to.
You'd think if liberals actually believed Trump is a fascist and American democracy is on the ballot, they'd arm themselves to be prepared.
What exactly would you do if the US army went fascist? Think you'd be pretty out gunned lol
So were the vietnamese and afghanis
I don't think wars fought half way around the globe are quite the same as on your home turf.
Yeah, people would get much more upset if they attack weddings and school buses with drones locally.
I meant logistics.
I'm sure people were plenty upset with that locally.
Cool, so Russia and China will be supplying us advanced weapons and flying jets for us?
It would be in their interest to encourage an American insurrection, so yes probably
Even if they didn't if 'lack of advanced fighter jets' gonna be the reason you're not going to oppose your own government if it went fascist then there's a name for people like that. It's just fascist.
Hamas is outgunned. Doesn't stop them from smoking Israeli tanks.
Who are you going to shoot, though?
No comment.
Many do
Not nearly enough
Guess what? If you had good laws the other side wouldnt have guns either. What we propose? No guns and a well educated police force. You in america have the worst combination of crazy people like you, hoping for the day they can shoot someone, gun fetishism, idiotic gun laws and a completely untrained and aggressive police force.
Love seeing liberals get called out on their weird takes
What's your point here? You both treat "liberals" (whatever that means) as being one homogenous group incapable of nuance or differing views.
? What
I'm not here to explain English to you. Seventeen others understood it just fine.
People buy guns to protect themselves from people with guns.
Weird that this problem doesn't happen in most countries isn't it. I'm sure it's nothing to do with the gun laws.
Most other countries didn't have so many guns to begin w/, but they're here to stay. If we didn't already have so many, then sure we should get rid of them. But they're not really going anywhere. I'm sure you've heard there are more guns than Americans?
"We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas. May as well make the problem worse!"
Australia managed it fine. Just excuses mate.
35 people triggered it. You lot just need to sort your shit out.
I'm not sure what you expected. You told the police about a crime, do you not expect them to arrest the criminal?
Do they not treat children and adults differently in the legal system where you come from?
This wasn't a murder or any other violent crime. It was petty theft from a business committed by a minor.
Yeah, if he was an adult they might have killed him instead.
It takes a special mix of thin blue line bootlicking and thinking the world revolves around you to think this was a good idea.
I didn't expect them to inject ketamine into a child
If a cop in my country injected ketamine into a minor during an arrest it would be in the national news for weeks. Totally unacceptable.
For a petty theft committed by a mentally disabled minor?
The situation was non-violent and under control - the cops escalated far beyond what was needed because they got bored waiting for the kid to fork over the last couple of e-cigarettes. There was no need to pin the kid to the ground, and definitely no need to inject them with ketamine.
In a world where all cops weren't bastards, they would have continued to build a rapport until they could convince the kid to give them back, give the kid a lecture about stealing, then let everyone be on their way.
It's like some people don't understand what community policing or policing by consent is. Cops shouldn't be resorting to force unless they really have to and someone not handing over an e cig in no way warrants being tackled or restrained plus with neurodivergent people that only makes them more agitated which then obviously makes the situation worse.
It's not fucking rocket science that different situations call for different responses and some situations only really need a fucking talking or conversation.
Exactly. In a sane world, cops shouldn't ever be the ones escalating any situation, especially one where there is no on-going threat