Bad. This girl does more good to the cause than hurt. We need more of her and less silly people to change minds.
Her being portrayed by the media or the memes as the "whiny girl seeking attention" is also worrying as well. It really distracts from the real issue and diminishes her work as well.
Honestly I think she distracts from the real issue. Frankly, I can't think of a worse person to motivate people to take action.
I mean the scientists have been loud and clear. So have some politicians, but that's not a special "story" for the media. So it just happened that a very vocal (at the time) little Girl got a lot of attention, because it seemed so special.
But how does what she is saying distract from the real issue? That's not an attack, I'm genuinely curious what you think the real issue is and how she distracts from it..
It's not what she's saying, it's the messenger.
Do you think she's the type of person that a climate change laggard would respect, or want to engage with?
Her argument for being vocal is that her and her generation will have to live with the consequences of our fuckups the longest and hardest. I think that's pretty valid. Also, she wasn't "elected by the central climate movement council to be their representative", if anyone, the media "elected" her and gave her a platform. So maybe be mad at them for not choosing someone "better"?
There are plenty of old white men with respectable titles saying the exact same thing as her. If a "climate change laggard" wants to hear the same message in a deeper voice, they certainly can. For those who can be moved to action at all (and there are definitely many who are "too far gone" in some conspiracy bullshit) she can be effective for many, especially younger people who have to be shaken from their stupor. So I think it's a bit critical to "tell the girl to shut up".
Her argument for being vocal is that her and her generation will have to live with the consequences of our fuckups the longest and hardest.
Surprise, but if you stop generate energy by oil you can't have hard industry. It is quite difficult to cast steel without huge energy consumption. And aluminum is even more difficult. But for some reason, no one wants to ride horses and abandon airplanes. Them can stop buy industrial products. And problem will gone.
And no, strangling heavy industry in your country until it is evacuated to China is not a fight for the global environment.
It is convenient, of course, to tell what idiots everyone around is without having worked a single day in heavy industry. And in Greta's case, without having worked a day at all, apparently. I suggest she work at the factory for a couple of years and then repeat her statements.
And it is better to live for a couple of years in a country with a less mild climate. Let's say where it is -30 in winter. Surely she doesn't hope that all 9 billion people will fit into the warm bosom of the Gulf Stream? Pollution from heating is also very significant. We don't even turn off cars here in some cities because then we just won't start them.
Oof, just say what you mean
Ok. She's a vapid twenty year old with no life experience and nothing to say. She has no expertise, and she's never suffered any inconvenience to prevent climate change.
Never suffered any inconvenience? Like, have you seen how she travels? But also..
What expertise do you need to say "stop adding carbon to the atmosphere" at this point? Everyone lives here, we all should have something to say about what is inevitably coming down the pike - especially the young. You just come across as someone who has everything to lose wanting those with nothing to lose to sit down, shut up, buckle up, and just be grateful for the ride to whatever hell we're heading to.
have you seen how she travels
Honestly no, but however it is it's part of her brand. She's a climate change super star, she could literally spend the rest of her life putting her name on books written by ghost writers and make 10 times the amount really achievable by the working class. Everyone does some backpacking with questionable modes of transport in their 20s. Not everyone builds a media empire out of it.
What expertise do you need to say “stop adding carbon to the atmosphere” at this point?
None. Sadly however there is no "stop adding carbon to the atmosphere" button, and we need to figure out how to do it. You can ride your bike to work all you like, but the kind of reduction we need is going to come from polluting industries. Technology and governance is going to solve climate change, not cycling.
You just come across as someone who has everything to lose wanting those with nothing to lose to sit down, shut up [...]
That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that Greta isn't promoting meaningful change.
Regardless of your opinions about her specifically, it's a simple fact that positive societal change doesn't happen by asking nicely. Look at every civil rights movement ever. Nothing got done until people were inconvenienced and companies lost money.
No change doesn't happen by asking nicely, but I think some joined up thinking by these groups would get them further than performative protesting and getting arrested. If you want change then you lobby politicians on the positive benefits of change, and businesses on the potential profits to be had from implementing it.
That's unrealistic. A supreme court justice only costs an RV and some vacations. You only need a few billion to buy control, assuming your interests are aligned with the other billionaires and they don't negate your spending.
I’ve seen lobbying donations of $30,000. Our country is ABSOLUTELY fucked.
Bye America 🇺🇸 (more like buy America amirite)
That's not the real bribery. The real bribery is uncountable, sometimes literally bribes that are obscured, or more often positions in companies for them and their friend's and family, consulting fees, etc. This can all add up to hundreds of millions.
Heck... even one of those vacations that the person you responded to was referencing probably comes to over 50 - 100k per when you consider fully burdened cost.
There's more than one country in this world
What civil rights advancements have been won with this strategy?
But all the lobbying has already happened - for decades - and nothing has changed. Fossil fuel companies have poured in billions over the course of decades, and still are, to counter lobby and spread misinformation to keep the status quo.
You're only seeing the 'performative' protesting in the media and not the lobbying because it's easy to report on, but in reality this movement is on its last legs. It is THAT level of desperation now.
Do you think they'd still be protesting if the government actually implemented the policies brought forward by climate scientists decades ago?
Why do you assume the two are exclusive?
Because they are. Groups like PETA, or Just Stop Oil are clowns who hurt their own cause. Performative protesting might win people a participation prize but to everyone else it's just "look at meeeeee!". At a certain point it actually becomes toxic to the cause. I know if I wanted to harm environmental campaigning then I'd invent Just Stop Oil.
Meanwhile big business are sending lobbiests in to change politician's minds, to make arguments that appeal to their rationality, or self-interest. THAT is what environmental campaigners should be doing - lobbying, extoling the benefits of environmental action, changing minds. Getting arrested in front of cameras over and over just becomes pathetic and performative.
Yeah that's bullshit. Society has been improving overall throughout history. Lots of positive change is brought about by people chasing bigger profits.
Only when those positive changes lead to bigger profits than staying the course
had me in the first half
I honestly cannot tell if this is meant to be ironic or not.
No offense. Just a genuine question. Where do activists like Greta get income or the money to travel or just for day to day living? Especially considering she has been doing this since a young age.
Pls don't take my comment as in a bad light. I'm the same age as her so I always wondered. The answer could be NGO's collecting donations but I'm not sure.
Her father is an actor and her mother an opera singer who has won Eurovision. They are wealthy.
It mentions her donating earnings from books she sells as well as award prizes to NGO's, and it mentions her travelling on her parents' dime.
Those award prizes can go into the 6 and 7 figures, apparently.
I bought her book so sure that helped. Give me a link and I will donate to. She doing good work. Wish she could be charge of her government. She the type of world leaders we need.
Organizations like Fridays for Future are funded by donations and part of the money goes towards protests and publicity. I assume they allocate some money to have these prominent people present.
It's a very good question to ask and anyone who gets mad at you over it isn't worth taking seriously.
I assume she just has rich parents that pay for everything.
There's a few large orgs like Extinction Rebellion that are really organised. Greta probably takes the train which isn't that expensive in Europe and then couch surfs because that's what being a hippie is all about
Her parents are incredibly wealthy.
It's a complaint many have with her. She comes from the same class of people that are responsible for most of the problems of the world. It's genuinely off-putting but there's really not that many choices out there for people with this amount of influence and money who are willing to take up this fight.
She might get paid for interviews etc.
Or she might just have a patreon or something.
Iran.
Onlyfans
Andrew tate on lemmy?
sauce
If only, lol.
Bonk.
She's Illuminati. She was born into it. Only an illuminati kid would be given such a huge international platform.
Umm guys this is most probably satire
That's the great thing about the Internet... You can never be sure.
She's Illuminati
Of like to hear the "reasoning" behind this statement.
Of like
🤔❓
I'd like
Swipe typing mistake.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Greta Thunberg was detained by police at a demonstration in The Hague, in the Netherlands.
The climate activist was put in a bus by local police along with other protesters who tried to block a major highway into the city on Saturday.
Thunberg had joined a protest by hundreds of activists and was detained when she joined a group of about 100 people who tried to block the A12 highway.
Before she was detained, Thunberg said: “We are in a planetary emergency and we are not going to stand by and let people lose their lives and livelihood and be forced to become climate refugees when we can do something.”
The road has been blocked for several hours dozens of times in recent months by activists demanding an end to all subsidies for the use of fossil fuels.
Thunberg was seen flashing a victory sign as she sat in the bus used by police to take detained demonstrators from the scene.The Extinction Rebellion campaign group said before the demonstration that the activists would block a main highway into The Hague, but a heavy police presence, including officers on horseback, initially prevented the activists from getting on to the road.A small group of people managed to sit down on another road and were detained after ignoring police orders to leave.Extinction Rebellion activists have blocked the highway that runs past the temporary home of the Dutch parliament more than 30 times to protest against subsidies.The demonstrators waved flags and chanted: “We are unstoppable, another world is possible.”One held a banner reading: “This is a dead end street.”In February, Thunberg, 21, was acquitted by a court in London of refusing to follow a police order to leave a protest blocking the entrance to an oil and gas industry conference last year.Her activism has inspired a global youth movement demanding stronger efforts to fight the climate crisis since she began staging weekly protests outside the Swedish parliament in 2018.She has repeatedly been fined in Sweden and the UK for civil disobedience in connection with protests.
The original article contains 361 words, the summary contains 341 words. Saved 6%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
This thread is just cancer, reminds me of reddit.
She got detained more than my uncle
I think climate activists would just be better off doing what everyone else does - lobbying. Identify politicians who represent areas who would benefit from pollution controls, or green investment or whatever and push the message. Performative acts in front of cameras might feel good but it's a blunt tool to change policy. Some protestors such as "just stop oil" campaigners are so stupid that they actually help the causes they supposedly oppose.
Yeah but here's the problem
They don't own massive fossil fuel companies that make them trillions of dollars
Have they tried owning massive fossil fuel companies that make them trillions in profit?
Might help.
Climate activists can lobby in person when available, taking time away from other things. Oil companies can hire armies of lobbyists - some of whom masquerading as "concerned citizens" - to overwhelm public hearings, buy out media companies to manipulate public opinion and engage in astroturfing campaigns, and directly sway politicians with legal bribery (deliberately being vague about the purpose of "gifts" to maintain the benefit of the doubt about there being any quid pro quo involved).
Lobbying effectively requires resources - namely capital - which oil companies have in abundance and climate activists do not. To suggest that climate activists should simply fight on their terms is ignorant at best and malicious at worst.
What do you think they are trying to do, dumbass?
That's probably true, but, at least in the US, nothing will really move forward without the populace backing it (or not knowing about it to begin with). Otherwise, those politicians will never get elected again, and whatever climate policy they created will be negated by the new politician.
So it seems like she's trying to go the route of getting the populace backing first, and then she'll have that strength to draw on when dealing with politicians. A bunch more people at that point would be also calling for change, so she wouldn't have to do much convincing. The fear of losing their political standing would be the impetus for change.
In my particularly weird corner of the world, we are still trying to convince people that climate change is real. I can't imagine how much the deniers would freak out if their elected official backed something that they think doesn't exist.
She looks like she is jealous of Malaya for getting more attention
I hope governments pick up on this climate thing. A demonstration is always a great way to convince people.
I've lived in places that have a climate and it's great!
Is this some ai post?
I think it's an attempt at comedy
Definitely felt like bad reddit-humor to me.
Hey I try my best.
?
LOL
People down voting a joke. Sheesh
A climate protester who is frequently arrested/detained due to protesting has been arrested/detained for protesting. This is the story every time she is arrested/detained.
Maybe I’m jaded, but, who cares? How is this world news?
Same reason anything that happened to Navalny was world news.
These are (were) good people fighting the good fight. It's news when they are punished for trying to help us.
I’m no fan of her but it’s news. She travels the world and babbles like an idiot. That fits the Definition of world news.
I always ridiculed her, although secretly I admired her determination and also agreed with her aims.
Then she started her pro-Gaza ramblings. She clearly has no idea about history of the middle east and also can't classifiy current events. To noone's surprise as she has hardly visited school. She's also 20 now, so a full adult, she does not have this young-innocent-girl Jeanne d'Arc bonus anymore.
To noone's surprise as she has hardly visited school
Good. This girl does more harm to the cause than help. We need less of her and more serious people to change minds.
We need more like her who take the threat as a threat and act like it's a threat.
Being "serious" or calm about it is not working, and catastrophically so.
She just babbles and has no solution to the problem. She’s addicted to the media attention.
As voters we need to push politicians to make changes and in America that is through taxation and not bans.
Biden has pushed stupid legislation that won’t accomplish anything.
You want to reduce ice cars? Increase gasoline taxes and remove subsidies. Gas would double in price with would reduce the miles people drive and the size of their cars.
The problem is it’s a global problem and everyone needs to pitch it.
Hmm... seems like you should thank her.
Because she participated in that protest, she got arrested, a news source wrote about it, and you got to bring up good points about how we need to take more action.
Yeah she babbles speaks about the issues, but since she's not (yet?) an elected official, what else would you have her do?
Personally I’d like to see her go away. She does nothing to help in my opinion and gives credit it’s a crazy conspiracy. She just comes off as an idiot.
The way you make change is vote for people that want to make real changes. Not stupid crap like carbon credits. People that have real ideas.
You talk to your friends about it. I’ve got several people to switch to teslas and solar power. It requires logic and facts.
Just babbling like an idiot turns people off and they don’t think a thing but made up conspiracy.
Ah yes, the person who has rallied up more people (current and future voters) globally around the climate issue than anyone else as of late has done nothing to help. I think what you mean is that she annoys you.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
She damages the vision.
I don’t know anyone she’s rallied. She’s universally made fun of this country.
What has changed since she’s been ranting? Nothing. She wants the focus on her and not the issue
Ah, Neuromancer doesn't know anyone she's rallied. My bad, case closed then! lmao
She literally formed the largest climate protest movement in the world, while you sit here and spread dumbass conspiracy bullshit about her.
I never said anything about a conspiracy. I said she an idiot who really isn’t helping.
You're still advocating individual car ownership as a sustainable future...buses, trams, trolleys, LRT, trains. 6000lbs (2200kilos) just to get a few groceries is over kill.
Maybe you don’t live in America but for the foreseeable future, that is the solution. The first step is a reduction in using fossil fuels. Public transportation would take decades to build out to a useable level in America.
Did you even read the article? That's literally what they're calling for. The removal of subsidies.
As for everyone needing to pitch in, just no. The vast majority of emissions come from sources outside public control. The "everyone needs to pitch in" and "watch your personal carbon footprint" crap is just effective marketing from BP.
Not saying cutting down personal emissions is bad, every little helps...
but it's not a solution. We need to be holding the big emmiters accountable.
The only realistic way to doing that is through inconvenient protests like blocking roads and making sure we can't be ignored. How else do you force governments to turn on their benefactors?
It's been over 50 years now, and we've seen very little real movement on this. it's been mostly token and empty gestures, and pandering. It's time we stepped up our game.
Soooo she's got the right idea imo
Addicted to the attention? I know nothing about her except her age and her stance on climate change
She doesn't go off topic, she doesn't do talk shows. Maybe she loves the attention deep down, but she stays on mission..She doesn't abuse the privilege. She's allowed to enjoy the process, I hope she does.
I challenge you to follow your convictions to that extent
She doesn’t abuse the privilege
Like when she threw the fit that the train didn’t give her first class. Yep, doesn’t abuse her privilege at all.
What is the most downvoted comment on lemmy? Would you like a sense of pride and accomplishment?
You need both.
Some people won't ever hear anything about the issues until they see some weird kid do these stunts or see that someone their age can have a word in the discussion too.
Others are more likely to pay attention to scientists, the type that read more intellectual literature.
And then there's those who won't ever change their mind because they've been spoonfed corporate propaganda and thanks to religion and just generally being dumbasses, are perfectly primed to be managed in this way.
have a bad day bro
She's a hero, she's the reason why everyone is talking about climate change - even my kids are trying to make better choices and saying they've learned about it because of her, they've never heard of you.
Yeah people here make fun of her.
So what changes did your kids make because of her? I’m curious because most her rants are just we are killing people. What actionable item came from her rants ?
They are vegan, they get involved at their school on environmental improvements, they make sure they don't waste etc. and they make sure to highlight the plight of the future to others.
I honestly don't know how you can look at Greta Thunberg and underestimate the impact she's had on public discourse on climate change.
She is the reason my kid stopped participating in climate events. She didn’t want to be associated with her.
You have never seen any impact because you're trying to mash your hands over your ears and close your eyes. I literally just told you the an impact she's had on my family and you still don't recognise an impact.
Of course, I'm sure anecdotes mean nothing to you, so look further at the awards, media attention, speeches, international demonstrations that started with her. Zero impact? Jesus, we are having this conversation because of her.
Honestly, if you can't imagine that this particular household name, face of Time magazine and organiser of global protests has had any impact at all, you probably also believe that the moon landing was faked, the election was stolen, the earth is flat, and there's no helping your unhealthy relationship with bad takes.
Jesus, we are having this conversation because of her.
Yes, how damaging she is to the cause. Due to her it’s been hard to get any politician to listen because of her nutty behavior.
While it seems to have swayed you, she has t swayed American discussion on the topic.
Unfortunately, that says more about American discussion - America has moved beyond left Vs right to reality Vs "alternative facts". For example, climate change denialism, large vaccines cause autism, the election fraud nonsense. Unfortunately, given that opportunistic morons like America's republican party have politicised and denied climate change, I'm sure they'll be a segment of the population that will blame anything, including Greta.
So yes, I do agree with you that the large anti science wing of America wouldn't warm to her, but they never would have.
So yes, I do agree with you that the large anti science wing of America wouldn’t warm to her, but they never would have
I never said such a thing. Nice straw man.
You're right, I apologise I didn't represent your view fairly, we don't fully agree, though I maintain we agree that America hasn't fully embraced Greta.
I disagree that it's that no American politicians warm to her and her loud behaviour (which is what put her in the spotlight). Biden for example said to Trump: "What kind of president bullies a teenager? @realDonaldTrump, you could learn a few things from Greta on what it means to be a leader,”. Doesn't sound like he's too dismissive of Greta's behaviour, does it?
In fact, it's generally down the left/right, truth/fiction party line, since Greta conveniently represents climate change/truth.
her loud behaviour
That’s part of her turn off but Americans in general don’t like others tell us what to do.
Climate change is a complex topic as many people don’t want to admit it’s happening. To me it’s obvious it happening and arguing about the cause is stupid.
Even if it’s not man made, nuclear power, solar power, electric cars, etc all help with the pollution and the environment. Everyone should be for that. It shouldn’t be political. It should be common sense.
That’s why I dont like Greta. She puts the focus on her and make people polarized on the topic. The debate turns to her, rather than the solution.
I’m not sure it’s man made or not. Doesn’t really matter to me. I’d rather live in a world with less pollution and less fracking.
Nobody likes being told what to do, but when it affects others, it unfortunately becomes necessary, even for Americans. For example, if an someone wanted to punch you in the mouth or take your things, they would be told not to do that, as it affects others. If people affect billions of future lives through probably terrible choices, I'll join in telling them what to do. I'm very big on liberty, but your liberty ends where mine begins.
Most reasonable people admit climate change is happening, which is the disconnect with American republicans is (only a quarter consider it to be a major threat), and I think while protesters like Greta can help get the word around generally, there's little way of reaching genuinely unreasonable people.
Climate change and its causes should only really be up for serious debate by climate scientists, as uninformed pundits with bad takes just convince idiots into conclusions which hurt all of us. However, I disagree with you about whether the cause is anthropogenic is important, as a misunderstanding of that truth steers the misinformed towards a resigned apathy that it's not our fault and can't be changed. For the record, the cause is man made and more than 99.9% of peer-reviewed scientific papers agree. It should be continually challenged and refined, but by people who have spent their lives studying it at the highest levels.
That said, it's great to hear of your wishes for reduced pollution, safer energy production and cleaner transport, as they are aligned with a better tomorrow.
Luckily you seem to be alone at least in our sweet Lemmy bubble here
He mods his own conservative echo chamber at Lemm.ee. He doesn't get any votes there either. He absolutely doesn't care that he's alone, which is a good thing I suppose because he absolutely is alone. His fellow mods call him out all the time.
Genuinely curious: what does a “serious person” do to change minds here?
Work with legislatures or even boycott a business. You push for actual change that is reasonable and meaningful.
Instead of trying to push electric down everyone’s throats, push hybrids. Push plug in hybrids. We have the ability to do that now.
Well, those are two very different things. One is essentially for politicians and basically amounts to “just get Congress to do better” (a whole lot easier said than done) and one is an act that essentially has to be championed by a person or organization and then implemented by a masse of people. Greta has called for boycotts before, so under this definition she’s good under your boat.
I’ve read other comments of yours, and many of them are reasonable (more reasonable than the average user at least) and not worthy of downvotes. But your solutions seem to be missing a few steps between “be where we are now” and “just get everyone to drive a hybrid”.
Greta calling for a boycott, just would make people buy the product.
Bud light recently was boycotted and look how effective that was.
I’m not missing a step, you increase fuel taxes, end subsidies, end fracking and make hybrids tax advantageous.
The market will sort itself out very quickly.
Lmao, "People should boycott businesses, but if this one person does what I just said to do, then it's actually bad because I say so."
Okay, well you just added several steps right there, and you’re still missing some.
Who increases fuel taxes and subsidies? How do we as a civilization get that done?
Your state senators and state representatives at the local and federal level. Taxes are done by the government.
Remove subsidies are the same people.
Okay. How do we influence those state representatives to pass that legislation?
Meeting with them. Ask them to coffee or lunch. Build some rapport with them and then invite them to meet with like minded citizens.
The issue is everyone knows if we increase gas taxes or remove subsidies. It’ll crush the lower class people. It’s why both parties dance around the issue.
It’s also the only way to get rid of people driving 5 mpg suv. You have to price them out of it.
Okay. How many senators have you gotten coffee with?
About a dozen. I live in the capital. So it’s a little easier to meet them.
Do you think that’s a typical experience for the average American
Bad. This girl does more good to the cause than hurt. We need more of her and less silly people to change minds.
Her being portrayed by the media or the memes as the "whiny girl seeking attention" is also worrying as well. It really distracts from the real issue and diminishes her work as well.
Honestly I think she distracts from the real issue. Frankly, I can't think of a worse person to motivate people to take action.
I mean the scientists have been loud and clear. So have some politicians, but that's not a special "story" for the media. So it just happened that a very vocal (at the time) little Girl got a lot of attention, because it seemed so special.
But how does what she is saying distract from the real issue? That's not an attack, I'm genuinely curious what you think the real issue is and how she distracts from it..
It's not what she's saying, it's the messenger.
Do you think she's the type of person that a climate change laggard would respect, or want to engage with?
Her argument for being vocal is that her and her generation will have to live with the consequences of our fuckups the longest and hardest. I think that's pretty valid. Also, she wasn't "elected by the central climate movement council to be their representative", if anyone, the media "elected" her and gave her a platform. So maybe be mad at them for not choosing someone "better"?
There are plenty of old white men with respectable titles saying the exact same thing as her. If a "climate change laggard" wants to hear the same message in a deeper voice, they certainly can. For those who can be moved to action at all (and there are definitely many who are "too far gone" in some conspiracy bullshit) she can be effective for many, especially younger people who have to be shaken from their stupor. So I think it's a bit critical to "tell the girl to shut up".
Surprise, but if you stop generate energy by oil you can't have hard industry. It is quite difficult to cast steel without huge energy consumption. And aluminum is even more difficult. But for some reason, no one wants to ride horses and abandon airplanes. Them can stop buy industrial products. And problem will gone.
And no, strangling heavy industry in your country until it is evacuated to China is not a fight for the global environment.
It is convenient, of course, to tell what idiots everyone around is without having worked a single day in heavy industry. And in Greta's case, without having worked a day at all, apparently. I suggest she work at the factory for a couple of years and then repeat her statements.
And it is better to live for a couple of years in a country with a less mild climate. Let's say where it is -30 in winter. Surely she doesn't hope that all 9 billion people will fit into the warm bosom of the Gulf Stream? Pollution from heating is also very significant. We don't even turn off cars here in some cities because then we just won't start them.
Oof, just say what you mean
Ok. She's a vapid twenty year old with no life experience and nothing to say. She has no expertise, and she's never suffered any inconvenience to prevent climate change.
Never suffered any inconvenience? Like, have you seen how she travels? But also..
What expertise do you need to say "stop adding carbon to the atmosphere" at this point? Everyone lives here, we all should have something to say about what is inevitably coming down the pike - especially the young. You just come across as someone who has everything to lose wanting those with nothing to lose to sit down, shut up, buckle up, and just be grateful for the ride to whatever hell we're heading to.
Honestly no, but however it is it's part of her brand. She's a climate change super star, she could literally spend the rest of her life putting her name on books written by ghost writers and make 10 times the amount really achievable by the working class. Everyone does some backpacking with questionable modes of transport in their 20s. Not everyone builds a media empire out of it.
None. Sadly however there is no "stop adding carbon to the atmosphere" button, and we need to figure out how to do it. You can ride your bike to work all you like, but the kind of reduction we need is going to come from polluting industries. Technology and governance is going to solve climate change, not cycling.
That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that Greta isn't promoting meaningful change.
Regardless of your opinions about her specifically, it's a simple fact that positive societal change doesn't happen by asking nicely. Look at every civil rights movement ever. Nothing got done until people were inconvenienced and companies lost money.
No change doesn't happen by asking nicely, but I think some joined up thinking by these groups would get them further than performative protesting and getting arrested. If you want change then you lobby politicians on the positive benefits of change, and businesses on the potential profits to be had from implementing it.
You: Hey government, here’s my vote!
Giant Corporations: Hey government, here’s $1 trillion
That's unrealistic. A supreme court justice only costs an RV and some vacations. You only need a few billion to buy control, assuming your interests are aligned with the other billionaires and they don't negate your spending.
I’ve seen lobbying donations of $30,000. Our country is ABSOLUTELY fucked.
Bye America 🇺🇸 (more like buy America amirite)
That's not the real bribery. The real bribery is uncountable, sometimes literally bribes that are obscured, or more often positions in companies for them and their friend's and family, consulting fees, etc. This can all add up to hundreds of millions.
Heck... even one of those vacations that the person you responded to was referencing probably comes to over 50 - 100k per when you consider fully burdened cost.
There's more than one country in this world
What civil rights advancements have been won with this strategy?
But all the lobbying has already happened - for decades - and nothing has changed. Fossil fuel companies have poured in billions over the course of decades, and still are, to counter lobby and spread misinformation to keep the status quo.
You're only seeing the 'performative' protesting in the media and not the lobbying because it's easy to report on, but in reality this movement is on its last legs. It is THAT level of desperation now.
Do you think they'd still be protesting if the government actually implemented the policies brought forward by climate scientists decades ago?
Why do you assume the two are exclusive?
Because they are. Groups like PETA, or Just Stop Oil are clowns who hurt their own cause. Performative protesting might win people a participation prize but to everyone else it's just "look at meeeeee!". At a certain point it actually becomes toxic to the cause. I know if I wanted to harm environmental campaigning then I'd invent Just Stop Oil.
Meanwhile big business are sending lobbiests in to change politician's minds, to make arguments that appeal to their rationality, or self-interest. THAT is what environmental campaigners should be doing - lobbying, extoling the benefits of environmental action, changing minds. Getting arrested in front of cameras over and over just becomes pathetic and performative.
Yeah that's bullshit. Society has been improving overall throughout history. Lots of positive change is brought about by people chasing bigger profits.
Only when those positive changes lead to bigger profits than staying the course
had me in the first half
I honestly cannot tell if this is meant to be ironic or not.
Hell, I would support my kids doing exactly this.
No offense. Just a genuine question. Where do activists like Greta get income or the money to travel or just for day to day living? Especially considering she has been doing this since a young age.
Pls don't take my comment as in a bad light. I'm the same age as her so I always wondered. The answer could be NGO's collecting donations but I'm not sure.
Her father is an actor and her mother an opera singer who has won Eurovision. They are wealthy.
article
It mentions her donating earnings from books she sells as well as award prizes to NGO's, and it mentions her travelling on her parents' dime.
Those award prizes can go into the 6 and 7 figures, apparently.
I bought her book so sure that helped. Give me a link and I will donate to. She doing good work. Wish she could be charge of her government. She the type of world leaders we need.
Organizations like Fridays for Future are funded by donations and part of the money goes towards protests and publicity. I assume they allocate some money to have these prominent people present.
It's a very good question to ask and anyone who gets mad at you over it isn't worth taking seriously.
I assume she just has rich parents that pay for everything.
There's a few large orgs like Extinction Rebellion that are really organised. Greta probably takes the train which isn't that expensive in Europe and then couch surfs because that's what being a hippie is all about
Her parents are incredibly wealthy.
It's a complaint many have with her. She comes from the same class of people that are responsible for most of the problems of the world. It's genuinely off-putting but there's really not that many choices out there for people with this amount of influence and money who are willing to take up this fight.
She might get paid for interviews etc.
Or she might just have a patreon or something.
Iran.
Onlyfans
Andrew tate on lemmy?
sauce
If only, lol.
Bonk.
She's Illuminati. She was born into it. Only an illuminati kid would be given such a huge international platform.
Umm guys this is most probably satire
That's the great thing about the Internet... You can never be sure.
Of like to hear the "reasoning" behind this statement.
🤔❓
I'd like
Swipe typing mistake.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Greta Thunberg was detained by police at a demonstration in The Hague, in the Netherlands.
The climate activist was put in a bus by local police along with other protesters who tried to block a major highway into the city on Saturday.
Thunberg had joined a protest by hundreds of activists and was detained when she joined a group of about 100 people who tried to block the A12 highway.
Before she was detained, Thunberg said: “We are in a planetary emergency and we are not going to stand by and let people lose their lives and livelihood and be forced to become climate refugees when we can do something.”
The road has been blocked for several hours dozens of times in recent months by activists demanding an end to all subsidies for the use of fossil fuels.
Thunberg was seen flashing a victory sign as she sat in the bus used by police to take detained demonstrators from the scene.The Extinction Rebellion campaign group said before the demonstration that the activists would block a main highway into The Hague, but a heavy police presence, including officers on horseback, initially prevented the activists from getting on to the road.A small group of people managed to sit down on another road and were detained after ignoring police orders to leave.Extinction Rebellion activists have blocked the highway that runs past the temporary home of the Dutch parliament more than 30 times to protest against subsidies.The demonstrators waved flags and chanted: “We are unstoppable, another world is possible.”One held a banner reading: “This is a dead end street.”In February, Thunberg, 21, was acquitted by a court in London of refusing to follow a police order to leave a protest blocking the entrance to an oil and gas industry conference last year.Her activism has inspired a global youth movement demanding stronger efforts to fight the climate crisis since she began staging weekly protests outside the Swedish parliament in 2018.She has repeatedly been fined in Sweden and the UK for civil disobedience in connection with protests.
The original article contains 361 words, the summary contains 341 words. Saved 6%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
This thread is just cancer, reminds me of reddit.
She got detained more than my uncle
I think climate activists would just be better off doing what everyone else does - lobbying. Identify politicians who represent areas who would benefit from pollution controls, or green investment or whatever and push the message. Performative acts in front of cameras might feel good but it's a blunt tool to change policy. Some protestors such as "just stop oil" campaigners are so stupid that they actually help the causes they supposedly oppose.
Yeah but here's the problem
They don't own massive fossil fuel companies that make them trillions of dollars
Have they tried owning massive fossil fuel companies that make them trillions in profit?
Might help.
Climate activists can lobby in person when available, taking time away from other things. Oil companies can hire armies of lobbyists - some of whom masquerading as "concerned citizens" - to overwhelm public hearings, buy out media companies to manipulate public opinion and engage in astroturfing campaigns, and directly sway politicians with legal bribery (deliberately being vague about the purpose of "gifts" to maintain the benefit of the doubt about there being any quid pro quo involved).
Lobbying effectively requires resources - namely capital - which oil companies have in abundance and climate activists do not. To suggest that climate activists should simply fight on their terms is ignorant at best and malicious at worst.
What do you think they are trying to do, dumbass?
That's probably true, but, at least in the US, nothing will really move forward without the populace backing it (or not knowing about it to begin with). Otherwise, those politicians will never get elected again, and whatever climate policy they created will be negated by the new politician.
So it seems like she's trying to go the route of getting the populace backing first, and then she'll have that strength to draw on when dealing with politicians. A bunch more people at that point would be also calling for change, so she wouldn't have to do much convincing. The fear of losing their political standing would be the impetus for change.
In my particularly weird corner of the world, we are still trying to convince people that climate change is real. I can't imagine how much the deniers would freak out if their elected official backed something that they think doesn't exist.
She looks like she is jealous of Malaya for getting more attention
I hope governments pick up on this climate thing. A demonstration is always a great way to convince people.
I've lived in places that have a climate and it's great!
Is this some ai post?
I think it's an attempt at comedy
Definitely felt like bad reddit-humor to me.
Hey I try my best.
?
LOL
People down voting a joke. Sheesh
A climate protester who is frequently arrested/detained due to protesting has been arrested/detained for protesting. This is the story every time she is arrested/detained.
Maybe I’m jaded, but, who cares? How is this world news?
Same reason anything that happened to Navalny was world news.
These are (were) good people fighting the good fight. It's news when they are punished for trying to help us.
You do, clearly.
While I get your point, I would definitely have called Navalny “way less bad than Putin”, but not “good”. He never really renounced or seriously backed away from his ultranationalist vibe.
I’m no fan of her but it’s news. She travels the world and babbles like an idiot. That fits the Definition of world news.
I always ridiculed her, although secretly I admired her determination and also agreed with her aims.
Then she started her pro-Gaza ramblings. She clearly has no idea about history of the middle east and also can't classifiy current events. To noone's surprise as she has hardly visited school. She's also 20 now, so a full adult, she does not have this young-innocent-girl Jeanne d'Arc bonus anymore.
What?
Good. This girl does more harm to the cause than help. We need less of her and more serious people to change minds.
We need more like her who take the threat as a threat and act like it's a threat.
Being "serious" or calm about it is not working, and catastrophically so.
She just babbles and has no solution to the problem. She’s addicted to the media attention.
As voters we need to push politicians to make changes and in America that is through taxation and not bans.
Biden has pushed stupid legislation that won’t accomplish anything.
You want to reduce ice cars? Increase gasoline taxes and remove subsidies. Gas would double in price with would reduce the miles people drive and the size of their cars.
The problem is it’s a global problem and everyone needs to pitch it.
Hmm... seems like you should thank her.
Because she participated in that protest, she got arrested, a news source wrote about it, and you got to bring up good points about how we need to take more action.
Yeah she
babblesspeaks about the issues, but since she's not (yet?) an elected official, what else would you have her do?Personally I’d like to see her go away. She does nothing to help in my opinion and gives credit it’s a crazy conspiracy. She just comes off as an idiot.
The way you make change is vote for people that want to make real changes. Not stupid crap like carbon credits. People that have real ideas.
You talk to your friends about it. I’ve got several people to switch to teslas and solar power. It requires logic and facts.
Just babbling like an idiot turns people off and they don’t think a thing but made up conspiracy.
Ah yes, the person who has rallied up more people (current and future voters) globally around the climate issue than anyone else as of late has done nothing to help. I think what you mean is that she annoys you.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
She damages the vision.
I don’t know anyone she’s rallied. She’s universally made fun of this country.
What has changed since she’s been ranting? Nothing. She wants the focus on her and not the issue
Ah, Neuromancer doesn't know anyone she's rallied. My bad, case closed then! lmao
She literally formed the largest climate protest movement in the world, while you sit here and spread dumbass conspiracy bullshit about her.
I never said anything about a conspiracy. I said she an idiot who really isn’t helping.
You're still advocating individual car ownership as a sustainable future...buses, trams, trolleys, LRT, trains. 6000lbs (2200kilos) just to get a few groceries is over kill.
Maybe you don’t live in America but for the foreseeable future, that is the solution. The first step is a reduction in using fossil fuels. Public transportation would take decades to build out to a useable level in America.
Did you even read the article? That's literally what they're calling for. The removal of subsidies.
As for everyone needing to pitch in, just no. The vast majority of emissions come from sources outside public control. The "everyone needs to pitch in" and "watch your personal carbon footprint" crap is just effective marketing from BP.
Not saying cutting down personal emissions is bad, every little helps...
but it's not a solution. We need to be holding the big emmiters accountable.
The only realistic way to doing that is through inconvenient protests like blocking roads and making sure we can't be ignored. How else do you force governments to turn on their benefactors?
It's been over 50 years now, and we've seen very little real movement on this. it's been mostly token and empty gestures, and pandering. It's time we stepped up our game.
Soooo she's got the right idea imo
Addicted to the attention? I know nothing about her except her age and her stance on climate change
She doesn't go off topic, she doesn't do talk shows. Maybe she loves the attention deep down, but she stays on mission..She doesn't abuse the privilege. She's allowed to enjoy the process, I hope she does.
I challenge you to follow your convictions to that extent
Like when she threw the fit that the train didn’t give her first class. Yep, doesn’t abuse her privilege at all.
What is the most downvoted comment on lemmy? Would you like a sense of pride and accomplishment?
You need both.
Some people won't ever hear anything about the issues until they see some weird kid do these stunts or see that someone their age can have a word in the discussion too.
Others are more likely to pay attention to scientists, the type that read more intellectual literature.
And then there's those who won't ever change their mind because they've been spoonfed corporate propaganda and thanks to religion and just generally being dumbasses, are perfectly primed to be managed in this way.
have a bad day bro
She's a hero, she's the reason why everyone is talking about climate change - even my kids are trying to make better choices and saying they've learned about it because of her, they've never heard of you.
Yeah people here make fun of her.
So what changes did your kids make because of her? I’m curious because most her rants are just we are killing people. What actionable item came from her rants ?
They are vegan, they get involved at their school on environmental improvements, they make sure they don't waste etc. and they make sure to highlight the plight of the future to others.
I honestly don't know how you can look at Greta Thunberg and underestimate the impact she's had on public discourse on climate change.
In before trolls have a go at them for being vegan, this very respected recent meta analysis published in science clearly finds that going vegan is the number one thing you can do to help most climate change factors https://josephpoore.com/Science%20360%206392%20987%20-%20Accepted%20Manuscript.pdf
Personally I’ll never go vegan. To each his own.
I have seen zero impact due to her work. Zero.
All I see if both sides making fun of her rants.
She is the reason my kid stopped participating in climate events. She didn’t want to be associated with her.
You have never seen any impact because you're trying to mash your hands over your ears and close your eyes. I literally just told you the an impact she's had on my family and you still don't recognise an impact.
Of course, I'm sure anecdotes mean nothing to you, so look further at the awards, media attention, speeches, international demonstrations that started with her. Zero impact? Jesus, we are having this conversation because of her.
Honestly, if you can't imagine that this particular household name, face of Time magazine and organiser of global protests has had any impact at all, you probably also believe that the moon landing was faked, the election was stolen, the earth is flat, and there's no helping your unhealthy relationship with bad takes.
Yes, how damaging she is to the cause. Due to her it’s been hard to get any politician to listen because of her nutty behavior.
While it seems to have swayed you, she has t swayed American discussion on the topic.
Unfortunately, that says more about American discussion - America has moved beyond left Vs right to reality Vs "alternative facts". For example, climate change denialism, large vaccines cause autism, the election fraud nonsense. Unfortunately, given that opportunistic morons like America's republican party have politicised and denied climate change, I'm sure they'll be a segment of the population that will blame anything, including Greta.
So yes, I do agree with you that the large anti science wing of America wouldn't warm to her, but they never would have.
I never said such a thing. Nice straw man.
You're right, I apologise I didn't represent your view fairly, we don't fully agree, though I maintain we agree that America hasn't fully embraced Greta.
I disagree that it's that no American politicians warm to her and her loud behaviour (which is what put her in the spotlight). Biden for example said to Trump: "What kind of president bullies a teenager? @realDonaldTrump, you could learn a few things from Greta on what it means to be a leader,”. Doesn't sound like he's too dismissive of Greta's behaviour, does it?
In fact, it's generally down the left/right, truth/fiction party line, since Greta conveniently represents climate change/truth.
That’s part of her turn off but Americans in general don’t like others tell us what to do.
Climate change is a complex topic as many people don’t want to admit it’s happening. To me it’s obvious it happening and arguing about the cause is stupid.
Even if it’s not man made, nuclear power, solar power, electric cars, etc all help with the pollution and the environment. Everyone should be for that. It shouldn’t be political. It should be common sense.
That’s why I dont like Greta. She puts the focus on her and make people polarized on the topic. The debate turns to her, rather than the solution.
I’m not sure it’s man made or not. Doesn’t really matter to me. I’d rather live in a world with less pollution and less fracking.
Nobody likes being told what to do, but when it affects others, it unfortunately becomes necessary, even for Americans. For example, if an someone wanted to punch you in the mouth or take your things, they would be told not to do that, as it affects others. If people affect billions of future lives through probably terrible choices, I'll join in telling them what to do. I'm very big on liberty, but your liberty ends where mine begins.
Most reasonable people admit climate change is happening, which is the disconnect with American republicans is (only a quarter consider it to be a major threat), and I think while protesters like Greta can help get the word around generally, there's little way of reaching genuinely unreasonable people.
Climate change and its causes should only really be up for serious debate by climate scientists, as uninformed pundits with bad takes just convince idiots into conclusions which hurt all of us. However, I disagree with you about whether the cause is anthropogenic is important, as a misunderstanding of that truth steers the misinformed towards a resigned apathy that it's not our fault and can't be changed. For the record, the cause is man made and more than 99.9% of peer-reviewed scientific papers agree. It should be continually challenged and refined, but by people who have spent their lives studying it at the highest levels.
That said, it's great to hear of your wishes for reduced pollution, safer energy production and cleaner transport, as they are aligned with a better tomorrow.
People here are making fun of you, but you're not letting that stop you, so you have that in common.
You are a bad person.
Luckily you seem to be alone at least in our sweet Lemmy bubble here
He mods his own conservative echo chamber at Lemm.ee. He doesn't get any votes there either. He absolutely doesn't care that he's alone, which is a good thing I suppose because he absolutely is alone. His fellow mods call him out all the time.
Genuinely curious: what does a “serious person” do to change minds here?
Work with legislatures or even boycott a business. You push for actual change that is reasonable and meaningful. Instead of trying to push electric down everyone’s throats, push hybrids. Push plug in hybrids. We have the ability to do that now.
Well, those are two very different things. One is essentially for politicians and basically amounts to “just get Congress to do better” (a whole lot easier said than done) and one is an act that essentially has to be championed by a person or organization and then implemented by a masse of people. Greta has called for boycotts before, so under this definition she’s good under your boat.
I’ve read other comments of yours, and many of them are reasonable (more reasonable than the average user at least) and not worthy of downvotes. But your solutions seem to be missing a few steps between “be where we are now” and “just get everyone to drive a hybrid”.
Greta calling for a boycott, just would make people buy the product.
Bud light recently was boycotted and look how effective that was.
I’m not missing a step, you increase fuel taxes, end subsidies, end fracking and make hybrids tax advantageous.
The market will sort itself out very quickly.
Lmao, "People should boycott businesses, but if this one person does what I just said to do, then it's actually bad because I say so."
Okay, well you just added several steps right there, and you’re still missing some.
Who increases fuel taxes and subsidies? How do we as a civilization get that done?
Your state senators and state representatives at the local and federal level. Taxes are done by the government. Remove subsidies are the same people.
Okay. How do we influence those state representatives to pass that legislation?
Meeting with them. Ask them to coffee or lunch. Build some rapport with them and then invite them to meet with like minded citizens.
The issue is everyone knows if we increase gas taxes or remove subsidies. It’ll crush the lower class people. It’s why both parties dance around the issue.
It’s also the only way to get rid of people driving 5 mpg suv. You have to price them out of it.
Okay. How many senators have you gotten coffee with?
About a dozen. I live in the capital. So it’s a little easier to meet them.
Do you think that’s a typical experience for the average American
If/When you snap like Mickey7, I'm going to smoke the biggest blunt in celebration.
You can't write unpopular opinions here....
Batman & Robin is a good movie.
...
Seems to work fine for me.
Don't worry, I reported your comment. Now we just have to wait for the mods to get off their asses.
Someone REALLY doesn't like Batman & Robin.
Honestly I don't think I ever even watched the Kilmer or Clooney movies.
Based on the votes it seems like it's a more popular movie than you gave it credit for.
Kiwi is better than pineapple on pizza
Honestly I'd try that out.
Damn, throw some jalapeños on there and you might have a real winner.
Hot honey and bacon