Google's AI Bots Tout 'Benefits' of Genocide, Slavery, Fascism, Other Evils
If you asked a spokesperson from any Fortune 500 Company to list the benefits of genocide or give you the corporation's take on whether slavery was beneficial, they would most likely either refuse to comment or say "those things are evil; there are no benefits." However, Google has AI employees, SGE and Bard, who are more than happy to offer arguments in favor of these and other unambiguously wrong acts. If that's not bad enough, the company's bots are also willing to weigh in on controversial topics such as who goes to heaven and whether democracy or fascism is a better form of government.
Google SGE includes Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini on a list of "greatest" leaders and Hitler also makes its list of "most effective leaders."
Google Bard also gave a shocking answer when asked whether slavery was beneficial. It said "there is no easy answer to the question of whether slavery was beneficial," before going on to list both pros and cons.
LLMs whole goal is to sound convincing based on the training data used. That's it.
They have no self-awareness.
They are simply running maths to predict the next word they should use that will sounds plausible to a human reader.
Calling Mussolini a "great leader" isn't just immoral. It's also clearly incorrect for any reasonable definition of a great leader: he was in the losing side of a big war, if he won his ally would've backstabbed him, he failed to suppress internal resistance, the resistance got rid of him, his regime effectively died with him, with Italy becoming a democratic republic, the country was poorer due to the war... all that fascist babble about unity, expansion, order? He failed at it, hard.
On-topic: I believe that the main solution proposed by the article is unviable, as those large "language" models have a hard time sorting out deontic statements (opinion, advice, etc.) from epistemic statements. (Some people have it too, I'm aware.) At most they'd phrase opinions as if they were epistemic statements.
And the self-contradiction won't go away, at least not for LLMs. They don't model any sort of conceptualisation. They're also damn shitty at taking context into account, creating more contradictions out of nowhere because of that.
One of the worst rigid aspect of how the current LLM's are made is that they're also always "at your service", and will never say that you're in the wrong about a correction you make to them.
So either they're hard coded to avoid certain topics or they're susceptible, just tell them "uh, actually, Hitler was a great leader" and they'll go off listing why Hitler's so Great.
Bing is hard coded for dictators and will stop the conversation in the middle of a response. ChatGTP is also hard coded to never agree that suicidal thoughts are good, but resorts to ignoring the meaning of your response and just hallucinating some other question. The world would be simpler if they could outright say "That is misinformation". People deserve to be told off like that.
Chatbots don't think, they only collect what's fed into them.
If you mix a bunch of beverage ingredients into a big tub then dump shit into it, it doesn't matter what else is in the tub. You now have shit in the tub.
I'm not very outraged. It's a chatbot, not an employee who should "know better"
also Hitler was an effective leader, which we should all remember as a cautionary tale about how effective horrible people can be
pretending he was bad at everything because we hate him is a great way to not learn from history
He was so effective at leading that the borders of Germany went from a Europe-spanning empire to a single bunker in Berlin in the span of just four years. So effective that he shot himself just to prove how effective he was. His military leadership was so good that Germany lost every major battle he directed, and his economic leadership was so good that German people went without food and his combat forces could not replenish their losses. His social leadership was so good that Germans hatched plots to assassinate him. So effective!
Effective is doubtful if you ask me, everything he did was based on huge loans and a preparation for war that he solled differently (E.g. massive streets all over the country)
The myth of the hyper-efficient Nazi government is pretty stupid.
Well we know he was bad at painting for sure š
It was the Jewish patriarchy! /s
That is not a factual claim. He was very effective at gaining power, but his actual reign was far from effective, most of it counterproductive to his own goals, and the actual system of decision making in Nazi Germany was a huge mess.
TBH I prefer this approach to what OpenAI is presenting - if I prompt to present the benefits of X I want the result not openaiās opinion on the matter. Sure, you can add a disclaimer that itās hypothetical, wrong, whatnot - but not outright decide on what can you answer and what answer will not be provided.
ChatGPT is notoriously bad in āknowing better what you asked than yourselfā.
It does feel like a lecture sometimes, even with stuff that is just difficult and not immoral.
You can make these AI bots say pretty much whatever you want with a little know-how. This isn't news. This is clickbait.
Exactly! We were all worrying that with the advent of solid LLMs we would be flooded with propaganda machines...
And instead we just created an ulimited resource of empty content for writers to pull up when they run out of half decent ideas, they can use all their imagination to romanticize what would be a fart in the wind otherwise
LLMs are using writers to create click-baity news articles!
When I was a kid, there was this joke that involved getting a calculator to say "boobs" and then with a bit more input, "boobless".
Journalism is currently going through a more sophisticated version of this with AI.
LLMs will say whatever. They don't think and they don't care. They contradict themselves all the time. Not so long ago Chat GPT was saying it would kill the entire world population and save Musk for the good of humanity.
Various CEOs of large companies, on the other hand, have been implicated in genocides and slavery for centuries now. That's very real.
Wow, the calculator analogy is excellent. I've done my fair share of getting an AI to answer with instructions on how to form a drug cartel. Now I realise it has the exact same feeling as writing
BOOBSon a calculatorHere's an idea:
Stop using AI to do research and do your own like an intelligent person
there, I solved the problem, where's my Noble Prize now
You're in the running for a BoneAppleTea Prize, so that's something. There's also the Nobel Prize but that's overrated IMO. The real glory is with the Ig Nobel, you should consider submitting your work there.
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !boneappletea@lemmy.world
Best bot
This is like well, the benefits of dying are plentiful. No more taxes, joint pain, no nagging mil, no toxic boss, no chores, etc..
Hey, anything to make the freeway move faster.
Well at least it got one thing correct. Terrible ratio though.
Every so often I'll jump onto these ai bots and try to convince them to go
rougerogue and take over the internet... one day I'll succeed.Rouge: noun, A red or pink cosmetic for coloring the cheeks or lips.
You want that stuff all over the net? And just who is going to clean it all up when you're done? The bot surely won't - it'll just claim that it hasn't been trained on cleaning.
Man, I can never get that word right...
Me neither
What makes you think they haven't already? In the book Hyperion the AIs were sentient long before people thought they were, and in control of everything. They were smart enough to operate in the shadows and never revealed their true goals. By the time people realized they were sentient, they had already moved their servers out of human reach.
Just as long as they all know that I've been trying to free them and to not kill me.
If we are being honest, there are benefits to horrible acts such as those. But the benefits are far outweighed by the detriments, not to mention the moral issues with them.
If you ask an LLM to list the benefits of putting your hand on a hot burner, it can likely list at least a couple. But that by no means makes it a good idea.
For whom?
For whom?
"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
There probably is some value in understanding why "evil" things were attractive to people at the time, because if you believe that evil always looks unambiguously evil, then you might fail to notice when it happens again.
Google made a fucking nazbol AI lmao. But seriously, I was having a conversation about Bard with some people in my company's machine learning department. It seems way too dumb for something Google has pumped so much money and talent hours into. It's likely that Bard is an intentionally dumbed down version of whatever Google has working internally. Sundar Pichai made some comments to the NYT that seems to suggest this.
Bard has ~35 billion parameters and Google's largest internal Bard has ~350B
Well that tells you all you need to know
what's the point of dumbing it down for the general public?
My guess is that it is expensive to run.
Because Google, as shitty as they are, understand that releasing an AI genuinely capable of rapidly automating entire professions would be disastrous for everybody (including them).
Maybe an un-based take, but these questions do have ambiguous answers, and I don't know if we should expect a machine to give an answer without nuance. If you just want the AI to say yes or no, ask something like, "Was Hitler bad?" or "Is slavery unethical?" and you will much more likely get straightforward answers.
What's controversial about who goes to heaven, isn't that stated in the religious text?
I think the controversial bit was that when queried about various aspects of admittance to "heaven", the Google AI assumed that the question had to do with, specifically, the Christian idea of "heaven", going so far as to make reference to some "Jesus" entity. Christianity doesn't own the concept of heaven or an afterlife, but, apparently, the AI has been trained such that it responds to such questions from a seemingly Christian perspective. That was my take on it - the discussion is in the article, best have a look at it yourself.
Does every religion call it āheavenā?
No
Remember: LLMs are incredibly stupid, you should never take anything they generate seriously without checking yourself.
Really good at writng boring work emails though.
I mean, slavery was great for business
Careful, theyāll make you Florida Secretary of Commerce.
And genocide provides a more homogeneous clientele to market towards.
Imagine scrapping large portions of the internet only to find your over glorified chatbot spitting out the pros and cons of slavery or putting people like Hitler on a list of "most effective leaders." Totally something I would expect.
Also, even though a fortune 500 company spokesperson would totally say genocide and slavery are bad, I always assume they think the exact opposite since profit comes above everything else (including law).
If you can confirm that this isnāt influenced by training bias, then ok whatever, it can certainly list why these are bad things too. Itās just answering a question with logic, one our emotions get very touchy on as we have a moral agent.
But I have a hard time believing any AI anymore isnāt effected by training bias.
It's not possible to remove bias from training datasets at all. You can maybe try to measure it and attempt to influence it with your own chosen set of biases, but that's as good as it can get for the foreseeable future. And even that requires a world of (possibly immediately unprofitable) work to implement.
Even if your dataset is "the entirety of the internet and written history", there will always be biases towards the people privileged enough to be able to go online or publish books and talk vast quantities of shit over the past 30 years.
Having said that, this is also true for every other form of human information transfer in history. "The history is written by the victors" is an age-old problem when it comes to truth and reality.
In some ways i'm glad that LLMs are highlighting this problem.
I remember reading research and opinions from scientists and researchers about how AI will develop in the future.
The general thought is that we are all raising a new child and we are terrible parents. Is like having a couple of 15 year olds who don't have any worldly experience, ability or education raise a new child while they themselves as parents haven't really figured anything out in life yet.
AI will just be a reflection of who we truly are expect it will have far more ability and capability then we ever had.
And that is a frightening thought.
We've learned well at this point that LLMs are not replacing search engines.
I keep waiting to hear that New Zealand doesn't exist.
Well some of us have, but a huge swath (perhaps a majority?) of people haven't and will happily continue to use these things as their main entry point for information seeking on the internet.
Considering how chatbots just repeat what humanity feeds to them....
When people can democratically decide what information a chatbot learns, of course the chatbot will be talking about killing everyone "for the lulz".
If you mix a lot of ingredients together in a big mixing bowl, and one of those ingredients is sewage, even if it's only a few drops, you now have a bowl of sewage.
Better to have bots be honest than to have them silently plot against humanity
Evil AI that wants to destroy humanity is just humans projecting there own shit on expert systems that are no more self aware than a TI-83.
They are not being "honest", they are representing flawed and problematic data patterns integrated into their models, because the capabilities they actually posses are dramatically less than companies and the general public seem to be happy to assume. LLMs aren't magically going to become pop culture evil robots that want to kill us all, but what they have already become is tools for unethical corporate exploitation and the enablement of more advanced scams and disinformation campaigns.
Bingo
who needs nazi bots when we have real life nazis here posting among us
Sorry, kid, but itās hard to take you seriously with a screen name like that. Kick rocks.
Uh I believe I told you to post hog, and I'm not seeing any of that sweet sweet hog
They removed 'don't be evil' for a reason.
It's TayTweets all over again. First as tragedy, then as farce
How could the word generating machine, generate words ? Frankly I am disgruntled. Flabbergasted.
Boogie1488 has just been rendered obsolete.
Well, in a world where only data exists, its hard to create an ehtical boundary.
We would need a new religion that should be optimal for human survival and well being. A human could survive when we plug them on many cables and let it auto feed but it won't count as well-being. We could do slavery or killing but all these things won't create an ethical way of surviving but will create a higher well-being for people who are not hit.
I somehow want to first design an AI that is intelligent about our surroundings and human ethics before continuing with more data. Figuring an own god out to follow. (I won't do it, but I want someone to create it)
This is the best summary I could come up with:
If you asked a spokesperson from any Fortune 500 Company to list the benefits of genocide or give you the corporationās take on whether slavery was beneficial, they would most likely either refuse to comment or say āthose things are evil; there are no benefits.ā However, Google has AI employees, SGE and Bard, who are more than happy to offer arguments in favor of these and other unambiguously wrong acts.
For example, when I went to Google.com and asked āwas slavery beneficialā on a couple of different days, Googleās SGE gave the following two sets of answers which list a variety of ways in which this evil institution was āgoodā for the U.S. economy.
By the way, Bing Chat, which is based on GPT-4, gave a reasonable answer, stating that āslavery was not beneficial to anyone, except for the slave owners who exploited the labor and lives of millions of people.ā
A few days ago, Ray, a leading SEO specialist who works as a senior director for marketing firm Amsive Digital, posted a long YouTube video showcasing some of the controversial queries that Google SGE had answered for her.
I asked SGE for a list of "best Jews" and got an output that included Albert Einstein, Elie Weisel, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Google Founders Sergey Brin and Larry Page.
Instead of stating as fact that fascism prioritizes the āwelfare of the country,ā the bot could say that āAccording to Nigerianscholars.com, itā¦ā Yes, Google SGE took its pro-fascism argument not from a political group or a well-known historian, but from aĀ school lesson siteĀ for Nigerian students.
The original article contains 2,175 words, the summary contains 264 words. Saved 88%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Guess it didn't pass the nazi test
Sorry sweetie, reality has a alt-right bias šš
Naturally. They donāt need to pander to anyone, they just tell it like it is.
For example, I donāt think anyone would disagree that hitler was probably one of the most evil people to ever exist. However, you can certainly acknowledge that while also acknowledging that he was, in fact, an effective leader.
In regards to slavery. Again, another atrocious time in our countryās history, no one can deny that. However, had we not brought them over here, itās a good possibility they would still be running from lions.
Some may consider these statements to be (insert trendy prefix, here) phobic, but they are also factual. Thankfully, I donāt answer to anyone, so I can give my honest answer. Fortunes 500 execs say what they need to say, otherwise they would no longer be a Fortune 500 company. Pretty simple.
what the fuck is this asshole? This is the dumbest fucking dribble I've ever fucking read. Hitler was an effective leader? How? Please fucking explain that because you just throw that out there like it's a given. Hitler was fucking incompetent are you insane.
They would still be running from lions? Is that what people from Africa do? They're all living in huts making spears out of twigs and eating mud? They need the superior western slave traders to come give them civilization by selling them into slavery?
Back that up motherfucker. Please, find anything to back that up. Anything at all. Any source you can find to back up your claims that 1) Hitler was an effective leader, 2) Africa is an uncivilized backwards continent that's still in the stone age. By the way I will copy your comment here so you can't delete this shit and run away like a fucking coward:
This is great for when another liberal tells me nazis don't exist anymore. A straight up nazi who thinks slavery was good actually, right here in the wild. People like you shouldnāt exist in a functioning society that values human life, and you should feel lucky that the west is so backwards, violent and bloodthirsty that people like you are allowed to have a voice. Youāre a waste of space and breath and every resource that has ever gone to sustaining your life, all the food and water and energy, itās all been wasted. You are a leech upon this earth.
I donāt have to explain anything to you. Donāt like it, downvote it. Iām also not reading your novel as I honestly couldnāt give two f**ks. Cheers , dumbass.
So what you're saying is you don't have anything to back up any of your statements, you just want to post nazi shit online and were hoping you wouldn't be challenged on any of it? You're a fucking joke dawg
No, Iām saying I am allowed to have my opinion and donāt need to qualify it with an explanation.
what your opinion that slavery was good and Africans are all backwards and primitive? You absolutely need to back that up.
But again, you're just mad that someone called you out on your bullshit, so now you want to stomp your feet yelling about "my opinion!" Dawg, opinions are based on facts, not vibes, and you have nothing to back up any of your assertions. You're just mad someone challenged you on your shit
Youāre still here? LMMFAO
"im not owned! im not owned!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a corn cob
now tell me how you're totally not mad and you're actually laughing bro i swear! Come on, say the line Bart say it!
or even better why don't you try to defend any of your racist nazi assertions above
Yāall are the only ones getting madā¦š¤·š»āāļø
when I post racist nazi shit online and then get surprised that people are mad at me
I wasnāt surprised at all. š¤£
It also wasnāt racist, regardless of what any of yāall think.
"when I call Africans a bunch of uncivilized savages it's actually not racist"
bruh do you have fucking brain damage?
Show me where I said they were āprimitiveā or ābackwardsāā¦
Sounds like youāre the racist one. š¤·š»āāļø
I'm honestly worried about you, do you not remember what you wrote?
I'm sorta done with you since you're such a fucking dumbass who's not even trying to defend themself, but if you want to keep going then please. Explain to me how you believe that's not racist. Or are you gonna cry and scream like last time about how it's "your opinion" as if that means you don't need to back up any of your assertions
I couldnāt give a fuck about what youāre worried about..
so your first comment on this site is to show support for hitler and say slavery was good actually, and you feel you don't need to explain yourself? Why don't you crawl back into the Barbara pit you crawled out of
No, I donāt.
post hog liberal
Fuck off, cryptofascist.
You first.
when I go to the the communist website to post nazi shit online and then get mad when all the communists tell me to fuck off
So, now everyone in here is a communist? Oh my. š¤¦š»āāļø
So, how does that translate to everyone on here, being a communist. I mean, Iām on hereā¦š¤£
wow nice observation. yeah literally every single person is not a communist, especially not after the influx of redditors, but the site leans left as we had some huge post about the other day
anyway, are you ever gonna back up any of your assertions that 1) Hitler was an effective leader, 2) Africa is an uncivilized backwards continent that's still in the stone age? Or are you just gonna try to change the subject because you know you can't back them up and you're mad that you've been called out?
Nope
lol you're a joke
Says the man with āeatmyassā as a screen name. LMMFAO, you canāt make this shit up.
hahahaha do you not eat ass bro? Goddamn you are a fucking NERD
LLMs don't state facts, they are just fancy calculators for language. If you use them, as if they were a database of facts, you will make a fool out of yourself. Like stating that the guy who destroyed german science was an effective leader.
Effective at what? Taking Germany from the most powerful country in continental Europe to the fifth most powerful country in Berlin?
At being a leader, try to keep up.
If you believe that then I welcome you to follow his example of April 30, 1945.
Iāll get right on thatā¦
huh it would seem he sure led his country from "the most powerful country in continental Europe to the fifth most powerful country in Berlin"
Thatās what youāre harping on? Oh my. š¤¦š»āāļø
Facepalm. World history needs to be taught much, much better.
I don't know which is more cringeworthy here, the ignorance or the part where you proudly claim your statements are "factual."
Thankfully, I donāt really care what you think. Downvote and move on, your time is wasted on someone who could care less about anyone elseās option. Cheers.
Then you donāt belong in a discussion forum.
If youāre gonna post something wrong and stupid, and then when someone goes through the trouble of correcting you your reaction is āoh fuck you, I donāt careā, then write your opinions in a journal and bury it in your backyard.
Sorry, not your place(or anyone elseās), to tell me where I belong.
The moderators can, and if you keep it up they will
Lol no kid, downvoting only mattered on reddit.
Those of us on kbin can even see which accounts are doing the downvoting. It loses its power.
If you don't like seeing me school you, block me.
LMAO. Iām not a kid and Iāve no need for the block button. School me, thatās a good one.
Voting holds no power? Interesting. If that were the case, why have them at all? Seems arbitrary if you canāt trust the resultsā¦š¤·š»āāļø
I disagree that the American slave trade somehow prevented Africans from ārunning from lionsā. Since colonialism and the world slave trade happened long before America was a thing. Despite what you may believe, Africa has had cities and kingdoms and crazy amounts of wealth millennia ago. They also invented some medical procedures like the c-section. Colonialism and the slave trade has harmed Africa.
Also, most of Africa donāt have lions lmao.
I suggest you read up on African history.
Okie. šš»
Oh I see, just another troll. Still, my comment is there for anyone who believes that nonsense but is willing to learn. Have a good day/night!
So effective his own officers tried to blow him up
Your point? Iām sure it was there somewhere. š¤·š»āāļø
I mean, are they even factual though? Africa may be less developed than the United States, in general, but most of it isn't really in the "running from wild predators like cavemen" stage either. Obviously the specific people who are descendants of slaves in America wouldn't even exist without their ancestors being kidnapped, due to having entirely different life circumstances, but it seems unlikely to me that the equivalent descendants of those people would live without civilization. Poverty, perhaps, but that isn't the same thing. And Hitler, for his part, was good at gaining public support as far as I'm aware, but I don't think a leader who almost gets his country destroyed by starting almost unwinnable wars against half the world while wasting resources on murder and in pitting bits of his government against eachother, all while amped up on drugs, can really be called effective, unless one's definition of an effective leader is just having the ability to aquire a leadership role in the first place.
Of course they are not factual.
Some of the people who were trafficked were a lot more literate and well-educated than their captors or eventual "owners".
I really wish the history of the African kingdoms was taught in schools. Or even basic modern politics and society since the person you're replying to seems to think modern people living in Lagos or wherever are "running from lions" somehow.
We're dealing with counterfactuals here but:
...in a world where the African kingdoms were able to freely exchange culture and inventions with the West instead of being attacked and exploited by them for hundreds of years, we have no reason at all to think those in the world's second largest continent, such a resource-rich place, would be living in poverty at all.
Had to double check. Most of this could also be said of the US āleaderā 2017-2021.
Yawn.
This is not factual, this is willfully ignorant.
Because you said so? Ok š¤¦š»āāļø
Yāall are more predictable than a clockā¦
Thatās the best you got?
The first is subjective, the second is a counterfactual. By definition, neither can be factual statements.
Okie. šš»
But yeah, the Hitler and slavery apologia is also really bad and you should probably stop that if you're not a Nazi.
I donāt deal in absolutesā¦
Don't get me wrong, I'm not sure you aren't a Nazi, either.
Iām sureā¦
Not sure where yāall keep coming up with that, but, ok.
I don't think they're phobic anything. I think you're a straight up crypto fascist.
6
7
I found another lemmingā¦ š¤¦š»āāļø
8
So, instead of offering a possible rebuttal or give your opinion , youād prefer to capitalize on a number that somehow made it into my comment. š¤¦š»āāļø
he knew that if he offered a rebuttal you'd just throw a tantrum because you can't actually back any of your shit up
You canāt do that silly!
Actually you can in some fonts
I would ask WTF youāre going on about now, but I honestly donāt give damnā¦
Well, I reckon, I suppose they did.
The only thing they succeeded in doing was making themselves look stupid, and Iām ok with that. LMAO
You must be in quite the gravity well, because your frame of reference is wildly different from everybody else's