Being an unpaid mod of a community owned by a private company that makes money selling advertising to you based based on data they collect from you.
That’s insane who in their right mind would dedicate their time to that? And what kind of dogshit company would openly allow that to happen!
Glad we’re not there is all I’ll say
I heard about that happening on some site. I read it in an article.
Those poor, starving children
I dig that pun
So being a Reddit moderator?
"Influencer"
The question was about jobs.
Part time dog-walker.
What is the definition of a job? I guess if someone said musician, that would be a career instead? Is a self employed contractor a job or is every client a job? Does an actor have one job or many?
I considered a revenue stream to be a job but I'm not sure now.
I guess the definition of job is vocation/occupation that generates your main financial income
Main financial income
So if I have 3 positions of employment, only the part time gig that makes me 60% of my income is my job, but not the full time one, or the part time one that makes me a bit of money on the side?
Well, the main sources of income.
A robbery could be a job too, depends on the point of view
"Influencer" is a "job." They didn't mention getting paid.
This isn't a matter of life or death, Nicole. This is a Disney Store in a mid-tier mall.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
it's actually a blue collar job where they do quite a bit of physical labor, at least the good ones. I have more respect for that then a lot of white collar jobs.
You probably shouldn’t decide how much to respect someone for what job they do. Unless they do like a really sketchy or immoral “job”, like a hitman or a scammer or something.
I think the only reason to respect someone is for what they do.
What better measure is there, even if job is only part of that? better to form my opinion of people for what they do rather than the traditional historical measures.
A persons actions are important, but so are personality and motivations. A job isn’t “what someone does because that’s who they are as a person”, it’s the thing that they do because they need to pay their bills. It’s one thing that you know for sure that they have ulterior motives for - money.
I respect people for how they act towards me and others. Are they generous, or selfish? Do they admit when they’re wrong, or do they double down on it? When they have power over others, are they cruel, or are they kind?
This is way more important than what job someone has. Often, what job someone has only gives you a guesstimate as to how wealthy their parents were, and little beyond that.
Disagree, I think that the way someone decides to spend their time says a lot about them. Sometimes you just need to work for money, I get that, but often times people just do whatever they fell into because they're too lazy to chase their dreams or do something actually beneficial for society
Dogshit take tbh
Clearly touched a nerve
Yes, gaslighting idiocy tends to touch a nerve when people are trying to have a good faith discussion 🤷
I think I'm being pretty reasonable. If anything, I stated my opinion and I'm being attacked for it. I'm not trying to play victim, but all the feedback I've gotten from this comment is hostile
I think I'm being pretty reasonable
Really? You think THIS is being reasonable?
because they're too lazy to chase their dreams or do something actually beneficial for society
let me clue you in: it isn't. It's judgmental and makes unfair victim-blaming assumptions. It's no wonder that people react with hostility to such a presumptuous and scornful take on people just doing their best to get by.
I clearly state that sometimes people gotta work just to get by and I respect that. But for many of us, especially here on lemmy who tend to be older, this isn't the case. I get that it's a touchy subject, no-one wants to be told they are lazy or that they're living their life wrong, but I believe that there's some truth to it. I don't know what the sollution is, but I think admitting to it a society is the first step.
Because they need money to survive, and their parents can't help them financially sp they cant get a degree in whatever field, even though every position in the field requires it?
I mention that sometimes this is the case and there's nothing wrong with that. But you don't necessarily need a degree to do meaningful work or to chase your dreams, just effort.
In America, every job. People make it their identity. It's the first thing they ask or tell people they meet most of the time. They make themselves what they do.
I get both PoVs. For some, it's just a clock in clock out type thing they do just to survive and maybe pay for their other passions. For others, they spent a majority of their lives training, learning, licensing, and practicing a skillset to perform their work. It's fairly often a large part of one's identity and it's not a negative thing. Though it may be a negative thing to assume someone is only their job.
But I can hardly blame someone for seeing themselves first as a scientist, artist, lawyer, or whatever.
A healthy and balanced understanding of different people?? Isn’t this the internet!!!
Idk...I like my job and I'm proud I worked my way to get there. I get to see some really awesome things and I love my coworkers. Whenever I see my family, I like to tell them about interesting cases I've recently had.
If you work a boring shithole job then I get not wanting to talk about it. But sometimes people do interesting things that they want to talk about! :)
hell, I don't even like what I do all that much but I like talking about it, lol. It's interesting even though it's not my "dream" job.
the older I get, the more I realize there's depth to anything. whether you're a hair dresser, an engineer, or a physical therapist. you can read and learn and get deeper and deeper into the study of that thing. anything is interesting if you're curious about it.
I think there's something to that statement. Hell, my old job was essentially just a form of data entry, but I managed to find things interesting with it and actually rather enjoyed it. Pay was shit tho so I went back to school to get to where I was now. But I for the most part agree with you. You can find interest in many things if you try hard enough. Not the case with some, for sure, but it's definitely more than some people realize.
And being interested about a topic makes for a good jumping off point when getting to know someone.
Not the case with some, for sure, but it’s definitely more than some people realize
I'd even say it's virtually everything. I can't think of anything personally. let me give some examples
Fast food worker? You start as a burger flipper or cashier and become interested in the management of the fast food place. You take on more responsibility just because you find it interesting - the logistics of making sure the basic ingredients are prepared and how many fries to have ready at specific times of the day, measuring how fast the average person makes a burger and seeing if you can optimize it, how to greet and talk to customers, how to resolve conflicts, how often do you need to clean, what is the best way of cleaning, etc.
This can even be a career. There are regional managers and consultants for these fast food chains that go around to audit and optimize different chains. See how we start with something basic that 99% of people treat as a dead end job but you can go deeper?
The same skills that help you manage a fast food place will inevitably transfer over to other management. You could be useful at a warehouse, factory, hospital, etc.
Let's say you dig holes for an underground construction company. You stick around long enough and they'll have you pull some coaxial or fiber through the pipe you're digging a hole for. After a while, you become good at it and that's your main job because it requires more skill than just digging holes. You start to understand how neighborhoods are wired, with the vaults spread every 150ft and how the hubs feed all of the houses in a neighborhood or businesses in a commercial area. you get assigned to a big project that requires splicing.
all of a sudden you're a fiber optic specialist and you have the skills to maintain large networks. you could be a repairman or an auditor or even a project coordinator for large projects
I'll give you an example that happened to me. When I was 19 and just got out of high school, I got a job at a warehouse. It was a cosmetic company that produced all sorts of different shampoos and conditioners and make ups and female hygiene cleansers, eyelash growth serums... all sorts of stuff.
I started off as general labor for the shipping department. I would sit around and wait for a big order to come in from a distributor and then go around the warehouse getting boxes and putting them on pallets. I would then wrap up the pallets and load them into a truck with a pallet jack.
Well, each pallet needed to have some paperwork done and then each overall order needed to have some paperwork done. this included the total weight of the pallet, the total units of product (different boxes have different qty of items. one box may have 24 shampoos but a box of eyelash serum may have 60), and then all of this needed to be put on an invoice and packing slip that gets taped to the pallet.
when I got there, I was trained that we would write this down onto a piece of paper with pen and then tape it onto the pallet. there were frequent errors (if the weight was wrong, we would get charged extra by the shipping companies or if we're shipping internationally it could get stuck in customs if you didn't have the correct paperwork). I was good with computers and knew how to use Excel. I was interested in how I could make the process more efficient (less work for me). I suggested a spreadsheet to my boss that had a table saved into a hidden sheet that had all the weights for each different box, as well as the total # of items per box. he said sure, why not. I weighed every single box and then also weighed an average of the pallets we had.
I created a spreadsheet template that would essentially fill everything in automatically, while also looking clean and professional - i put the company's logo in there. This would also pump out a packing slip and invoice automatically filled in from the data inputted.
my boss was elated. his department was more accurate and looked more professional, meanwhile we were doing less work. basically every day i walked around that warehouse i paid attention and looked to see what we could be doing better. how could we optimize?
very quickly they pulled me off of labor and I started working in the office. when I left that job, 4 years later, I was the manager of the inventory department - responsible for over $100 million worth of raw materials. i had 8 people under me. i was 23, didn't know wtf i was doing, but really i was just curious and interested in making things move more smoothly
Do you see what I mean? Anything is interesting if you're a curious enough person. There's stuff to learn everywhere. There are processes to optimize, there are intricacies and subtleties to everything.
You really think Americans start conversations in bars by saying, "hi, I'm a mechanic. What do you do?'
This Internet idea of what Americans do is ridiculous. Anyone who spends time (paid or unpaid) doing something they're passionate about will talk about it.
Yup that's totally what I think, I'm definitely European. No way an American thinks that of America.
Going strait to meeting someone in a bar says something troubling about your life.
We're either friendly coworkers who invite other coworkers, or it's like a meetup group of people who like something and want to do it together.
If we meet at a bar with coworkers, we can network with each other and thus later on not need to trifle with management when we need help with something. "Oh yeah, Jane built this device, lemme ask her what the polarity is supposed to be".
Meetups with randos, we just vibe. Sometimes it's at a bar, other times at a restaurant. We just vibe, figure out what other people's passions and and get to know them.
CEOs and high ranking business people, what they get to do is not work or work significantly less than a working class people therefore I have no respect for most of em
The higher up you go the less work you do and the more stress you take on. You're essentially trading your peace of mind for more money.
When you work a simple manual labor job you clock in and clock out and then go home and live your life. Work stays at the office.
When you're an executive or a business owner you're working 100% of the time. Something happens, you need to respond. Sometimes you need to make hard decisions where you're fucked either way but you need to minimize damage.
You need to find solutions to problems and that keeps you up at night. Don't have enough money for payroll next week? How you gonna do it? Not pay vendors this week? Take out another line of credit at ridiculous rates? Skip a payment on your rent? Equipment financing?
You have to do something- you stop paying your employees and the company falls apart very quickly. Could start a chain reaction of good people leaving, making the situation worse. The buck pretty much stops with you, you can't pass off the problem to someone else.
It's not easy to be in charge. Lot of blame rests on your shoulders if things go wrong.
Of course that doesn't mean they deserve 10,000x the salary of a regular job. I think CEO pay should be capped to some multiple of regular employee pay. Whatever that scalar value should be 2, 5, or 10 I think is debatable. But it should be capped.
Moving from being a Product Owner, working on my own projects, to being a Product Manager who works with Product Owners on their projects/hands over projects to them, it is far more stressful. I end up being on the hook for everything, with an expectation that I know everything about a dozen projects, despite being far less actively involved in the underlying work of any of them.
Am an executive... agree with you on all fronts
"Running a business is hard work, you wouldn't believe the number of meetings-"
Oh yeah meetings where you and "experts" on maximizing profits talk about how many people you can get away with laying off this quarter and other meetings where you work out a deal to buy a competitor startup in order to immediately and intentionally run it into the fucking ground sounds really fucking essential to the world Allan
Small business owner here. Just to add to the other responses about the stress and responsibility as you move up that others mentioned here... I cover every one of my employees when they take vacation or sick leave. So I am often doing my job, plus another person's. It's not uncommon for me to work 12 hour days without breaks.
I don't think OP was referring to small businesses (< 50 employees), but more like 1000+ employees.
I am not reffering to small business owners, but big corporate executives
No one has said police yet?
that's not a job, some people are just Assigned Cop At Birth
They don't take it seriously enough. They go play army man.
Playing army would mean keeping their cool in hostile territory.
Actually it means raping brutalizing and killing civilians in territory where you are not welcome
YOU know that. They don't seem to.
I was thinking more that the general population takes them too seriously.
I disagree. They have the ability to kill people with little repurcussion
And yet people thank them for their "service" and put "thin blue line" flags in their yards. That is the kind of "too seriously" I am referring to.
That's just cause those people buy into the delusion the cops have.
But I agree with your overall point
Honestly in my line of work I seriously considered Police, but when I noticed it's essentially a cult I noped out of there
the problem with police is that
the people who should work as a police officer don't want to be a police officer
the people that shouldn't work as a police want to be a police officer
I don't think police is inherently a bad thing. It just happens to be because people who want power over others should not have power over others.
similar story with politicians. I'd prefer an honest politician. but the process of picking them selects for those who are dishonest.
Exactly, couldn't have worded it better. Obviously not all of them all of the time, but it is what it is
Work shouldn't be the primary source of stress in our lives no matter what the job is.
Brb gonna go try to hack the NSA so I have something else to be stressed about
I'll cop some shit for this one, but coffee baristas.
you put some grounds in a machine, twiddle some nobs and pour milk in a wave pattern
edit: judging by the amount of downvotes ive either pissed off all the Bachelor of Arts grads working as baristas or all the coffee snobs who still think making coffee is some sort of art that can only be done by the most highly trained baristas. Yes, I also love coffee. No, making it is not some sort of complicated thing which is the point of this post (and topic of this thread), and no, I am not disparaging anyone working as a barista (unless they are an Arts grad, sorry) because a job is a job and all jobs deserve respect
It isn’t making the coffee that’s hard, it’s being on your feet for 8 solid hours while getting assaulted by a Karen every 30 minutes and playing the memory game of 3 pumps vanilla no foam cinnamon powder vinti super choco-latte. The coffee is just a minor part of the job.
Tell me you've never worked in hospitality without telling me you've never worked in hospitality.
I spent years in restaurants and retail stores working thru my teens and twenties.
The management in those places is usually a joke. Over serious, under educated people taking themselves far too seriously. They work hard because they're inefficient most of the time, not because the jobs are actually difficult too. At least that's the experience I had along with my friends before we got wise and gtfo of that environment.
From Asia to Africa, all the shops I've visited had good espressos and coffee.
Customer service is also a joke here.
I always wonder what little hell you people live in. There are fan fucking tastic local roasters across the East Coast. It's crazy easy to get day old roasted beans from just about anywhere on the planet here.
It's like the people who make fun of the food and have no clue.
Hope so you not have access to good coffee? Where are you located that you can't get anything good?
The definition of what "good coffee" is vary from place to place. The northeast has absolutely phenomenal American style coffee (focus on drip coffee and long pours), a lot of Europeans are after a really good espresso for €1.5.
What exactly is your definition of "taking too seriously"?
Meter maids (people who see if people didn't pay to park)
Agreed but I think in a lot of cities they’re gauged on performance by numbers of tickets issued, gotta hate the game for this one not the player who usually don’t want that job and just need the money
Park ranger. There are two kinds: chill and friendly, or the kind that make you show all your documents, prove your park stickers are valid, make you repark your car, and then scold you for being too loud even though the next nearest campsite is several hundred feet away and nobody has complained and you arent even being loud...
You're that camper. Turn the music off.
Nope, no music or media. Just sitting around the campfire telling stories and laughing. Sorry, but 9pm is not late, especially when quiet hour isn't even until 10 at that particular site.
I don't care that you like to get up at 5:30am for your morning run, I'll be totally quiet when the actual park rules say I have to be.
Hmm, doesn't sound overly specific for an assessment of an entire profession at all. DEFINITELY not based on a single day's experience 🤔
Rough trend.
Watch Joe Pickett :-) . Bad ass!
Chef. No I'm not calling you a special title and acting like this is the military and you are my commanding officer, we work at the Olive Garden.
Teaching. Everyone seems to think teachers are full of themselves until they become a teacher and become full of themselves themselves.
it's one of the most important professions but okay tell me more about how mrs dunn was mean to you and you suck at fractions
Read the OP title, it asks what job do people take too seriously. I answered. Anyone who ignores we did just fine without our current system of teachers for centuries is already doing exactly that, taking it too seriously. It has nothing to do with your strawman of me thinking a teacher was mean to me.
Go back to being an illiterate, muck raking peasant or die young in a workhouse then, I guess. Fucking hell.
People in all the past golden ages did just fine without having the teaching system we have currently.
You know who the "Golden Age" was golden for? The relatively few educated people.
And for general relative prosperity and trade.
And you somehow genuinely feel that the average person's prosperity was, relatively, better in that period?
Working 7 days a week, morning to night, producing that prosperity and trade for the educated class in exchange for a pittance. Whilst eating your table scraps in the dark, you can hope you don't die of a disease you have no idea how to prevent contracting.
You can measure the prosperity of an era by contemporary descriptions of their health, including how tall people were. So we definitely have proof people fared better then.
Would you want to factor in life expectancy at all?
Did I not?
It feels like it might impact your view a bit if you did.
As good as it is to be marginally taller for 30-40 years, or be a super tall person who died an infant. Not that the article you linked has any description of heights related to whichever "golden age" you might refer to, but whatever.
I love teaching, but the job of being a schoolteacher scares the heck out of me. Trying to earn the respect of 30 kids, while working from some standardized lesson plan, it sounds awful. I wouldn’t last a month.
Plus there's the problem of having to relearn subjects to such a level of mastery that you can teach them effectively. Like 2nd grade math isn't hard at all obviously but it's really hard to synthesize and break down all material in a way that a developing mind can grasp it.
I took classes which would qualify me to be a teacher. The biggest thing that scared me out of it were the unions and the fact they're not even legally questionable sometimes. I didn't want to become that. In the United States, the occupation has so much control that the head of the teachers' union is considered the most dangerous individual in the nation according to a poll/ranking. Not sure if anyone would be willing to accept that as context for my answer though.
Everyone should be in a union. I'm happy to hear teachers are successfully unionised in the US.
If you grew up here you probably wouldn't be saying this. Unions at their conception were supposed to be collectives of people who made sure they weren't mistreated, but today they're groups who use their membership numbers to make sure they get their way as often as possible. You may have heard about police here being notorious for overstepping in certain matters. In cases where this is true, that's with the unfortunate help of the police union, which practices a needlessly strong honor-based system of nepotism. Teachers here are the same way. If anyone in power even remotely brings up any proposed bill that works in favor of teachers, such as one that gives them less required work time or more pay, they will pressure it into materialization, and they will exploit anything and everything for their giant wolf pack, allegorically-speaking. With Lemmy having a strong anti-capitalist sentiment, it strikes me as counterintuitively argumentative that the same demographic would be so supportive of unions.
Giving support to a bill that benefits workers through collective organisation is precisely what unions are for. Why are you against people wanting a better work/life balance? Unionise and you can have one too.
Because that's not what they end up being used for most of the time, people here most often see them be used to impose one's group's interests on others, and these interests often dictate the fate of one's future in the job. The issue is so bad the occupation is stigmatized in less populated areas.
Programming. People treat it like a career, but fact is that unless your really good at it, your not going to make any money from it. I've found programming to be far more like art than work anyway.
Maybe I'm biased since I recently started working as a software dev, but you don't need to be really good to get a job as a programmer. I'm evidence of that.
Or any job. You underestimate how much any job is just being decent enough rather than amazing all of the time.
Yes I am fully aware of that. My point was that programming is just like any other job unlike what the guy I responded to seems to think.
Reading this, I'm not able to interpret what emotion applies here.
Sorry I typed this in a hurry. I just disagree with the statement and tried making a joke.
I got the joke, my response was in extension to it :)
Not sure where you're from, but here in the states, if you have a basic ability to code from a bootcamp or even self taught with a portfollio, you'll pretty easily get hired making anywhere from 45-55k a year. And after about 2-4 years, you'll pretty easily be making 70-90k sometimes more depending on where you live.
Professional software developer here. It’s definitely a career.
I do agree it’s like art, it requires you to fit stuff together like a puzzle to get it to work. But I don’t think that makes it less of a “serious” career - there’s a lot of money in the field and as the world gets more and more invested in computing it’s become a very in-demand skill.
It is a career, for sure. It can be hard to get into, but I’ve been in the industry for a long time and I have worked with people who have been paid a developer’s salary for years who were unbelievably bad at their jobs.
I used to manage a software team - once I was trying to explain something to a coworker and asked them to write some code to loop from 1 to 10 for me, and they couldn’t do it. I even prompted them by saying “you know, write a for loop” and they said that they kinda knew what for loop was, but they wouldn’t know how to write one. I asked them to give it their best shot, just write the word “for” and then see what flows from there, but they were just not able to proceed. I explained how to do it to them, and then they asked me what an int (integer) was… but I had already explained what an int was the day prior. This person had an honours degree in computer science.
I’d say there are a lot of developers who are barely competent at copy/pasting code from stack overflow until it works. Maybe 10-20% of the people in SMEs are that. The majority are pretty decent, but kinda lazy. Then there are the incredibly competent and hard-working people who are like gold dust. A really good developer who isn’t a complete drama king/queen, has good communication skills and just gets on with their work instead of getting sucked into personal pet projects is incredibly rare.
I'm sorry but there's just no way that anecdote is true. I refuse to believe it.
Honestly, if anyone else had told me this story, I'd assume that they were either exaggerating or that they were being an asshole to the other person in a way that made them shut down and not really want to engage with them, but it's as near to an accurate recollection as I can make it. I've taught programming to people from all walks of life, from 13 to 60+ years old, I've mentored quite a lot of devs, I've taken kids from "yeah I'm interested in computers, I like playing games" to senior developers, and while I'm sure that my teaching style may not be perfect for everyone, I've never once heard any complaints that I made someone feel stupid, belittled or like they couldn't make mistakes. I always encourage people to be as honest and open about what they do/don't understand because if someone says "I don't get it" I can explain something in another way that might make it click. But yeah, that day when I had just been through the whole for-loop thing and he asked me about integers again, it was as close to just completely exasperated as I've ever been with mentoring someone. It was a surreal, groundhog day feeling, like I was sisyphus, and my boulder was explaining to a computer science graduate what a whole number was.
I used to manage a software team - once I was trying to explain something to a coworker and asked them to write some code to loop from 1 to 10 for me, and they couldn’t do it. I even prompted them by saying “you know, write a for loop” and they said that they kinda knew what for loop was, but they wouldn’t know how to write one. I asked them to give it their best shot, just write the word “for” and then see what flows from there, but they were just not able to proceed. I explained how to do it to them, and then they asked me what an int (integer) was… but I had already explained what an int was the day prior. This person had an honours degree in computer science.
Are you sure you managed the team? I'm joking, but how did this person get through an interview, let a lone survive so long working as a dev?
Haha, it’s a fair comment - it’s a team I inherited, it wasn’t my hiring decision. I don’t know what the interview process was like before me, but I’m guessing it was a very old fashioned “where do you see yourself in 5 years” affair.
I’m pretty sure that they just muddled through by copy/pasting stuff seemingly at random and tinkering until it worked. Which can be a good way to learn, for sure, but it’s not really what you want from a professional developer, full time.
The guy who managed the team before me didn’t believe in object oriented design, and not in a cool Haskell way, in a really old fashioned “I can do everything with batch scripts” way. The team was using a programming language that was so old that they were using dosbox to compile it because the compiler was a 16-bit application.
Because the compiler was a 16-bit application
Name the language, mate. This sounds a bit too insane to be true.
Yeah, it was called DataFlex. The vendor has released new versions of it called Visual DataFlex (VDF) and then renamed VDF back to DataFlex, but this language was what we called “character mode” DataFlex. It’s still used by the company as their main data entry application even today and a lot of their processes still are written in DataFlex. A lot of the work that my team did was rewriting a lot of the old crap in C#, but there was just so much of it built up over the decades.
I sucked balls at programming and made six figures.
Mate Im dogshit at programming and make plenty of money at it.
You can still use programming to leverage your current position.
If you work admin in an office and are able to automate a bunch of workflows with some simple scripts, you'll have more leverage when salary raises start to get discussed.
Will your code be at the level a professional programmer would produce? Probably not, but you're not competing with one.
Even better if you keep schtoom about it and automate your work from home job allowing you to just chill for most of the day.
Upvoted for use of British English word “schtoom,” a Yiddish loan word. I always thought Yiddish loan words were an American thing, thanks for the learning opportunity.
Hell the ability to write a basic sql SELECT statement alone opens a lot of doors.
proceeds to learn sql
By the way, SQL, sequel, or squeal?
(personally, I use sequel)
any money
Can you please define that? Being the Internet, some define it as US$1 or US$250,000.
Depends where you live, and what the job market is like. The demand for programmers goes up and down over the years, with various tech bubbles growing and popping. There are some job markets during high demand times when any programmer with any level of skill can get a good job, can name their own price and make good money, but at other times there is oversupply of programmers, thousands of graduates apply for every entry-level job, where hirers have the advantage, they can name the price and pick only the best of the best. I've personally seen both situations in my career.
I will admit, once you get a few years of professional experience on your resume, your chances of landing a good job and making good money goes way up. And yes, it definitely can be a career.
It can be like an artform if you let it be. Or it can be rote and robotic. There are choices in how you express your talents, and how you approach given problems. Lots of people make money from good art anyway.
Maybe if you are a freelance programmer working out of a coffee shop...?
That’s why I switched sides. From programming myself to developing functions and writing requirements which someone else can implement into code. :)
I could do some programming (did embedded C), but surely I wasn’t the very best in it. So now I’m the guy who defines what a small (but essential) part of SW has to do which will run in hopefully a few million cars in a couple of years. :) Much more fun (and money).
What's your job called? I'm nowhere near your field, and am curious about y'alls org charts.
Business analyst I guess.
What crack are you smoking? There are thousands, probably millions, mediocre coders making 200k total comp+.
How did you come to that insane comment?
How did you come to that insane comment?
They took a few community college "video game programming" courses and got nowhere with it.
Skilled work often is an art.
I consider programming skills a very valuable skill that unlocks many career options, but if your job is morning but pure programming, yeah most people are not cut out for it.
Being an unpaid mod of a community owned by a private company that makes money selling advertising to you based based on data they collect from you.
That’s insane who in their right mind would dedicate their time to that? And what kind of dogshit company would openly allow that to happen! Glad we’re not there is all I’ll say
I heard about that happening on some site. I read it in an article.
Those poor, starving children
I dig that pun
So being a Reddit moderator?
"Influencer"
The question was about jobs.
Part time dog-walker.
What is the definition of a job? I guess if someone said musician, that would be a career instead? Is a self employed contractor a job or is every client a job? Does an actor have one job or many?
I considered a revenue stream to be a job but I'm not sure now.
I guess the definition of job is
vocation/occupation that generates your main financial incomeSo if I have 3 positions of employment, only the part time gig that makes me 60% of my income is my job, but not the full time one, or the part time one that makes me a bit of money on the side?
Well, the main sources of income.
A robbery could be a job too, depends on the point of view
"Influencer" is a "job." They didn't mention getting paid.
Someone is bitter they can't make a good salary being on YouTube 🤣
Being a general manager at any retail outlet
Oh god 100%.
This isn't a matter of life or death, Nicole. This is a Disney Store in a mid-tier mall.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
it's actually a blue collar job where they do quite a bit of physical labor, at least the good ones. I have more respect for that then a lot of white collar jobs.
You probably shouldn’t decide how much to respect someone for what job they do. Unless they do like a really sketchy or immoral “job”, like a hitman or a scammer or something.
I think the only reason to respect someone is for what they do.
What better measure is there, even if job is only part of that? better to form my opinion of people for what they do rather than the traditional historical measures.
A persons actions are important, but so are personality and motivations. A job isn’t “what someone does because that’s who they are as a person”, it’s the thing that they do because they need to pay their bills. It’s one thing that you know for sure that they have ulterior motives for - money.
I respect people for how they act towards me and others. Are they generous, or selfish? Do they admit when they’re wrong, or do they double down on it? When they have power over others, are they cruel, or are they kind?
This is way more important than what job someone has. Often, what job someone has only gives you a guesstimate as to how wealthy their parents were, and little beyond that.
Disagree, I think that the way someone decides to spend their time says a lot about them. Sometimes you just need to work for money, I get that, but often times people just do whatever they fell into because they're too lazy to chase their dreams or do something actually beneficial for society
Dogshit take tbh
Clearly touched a nerve
Yes, gaslighting idiocy tends to touch a nerve when people are trying to have a good faith discussion 🤷
I think I'm being pretty reasonable. If anything, I stated my opinion and I'm being attacked for it. I'm not trying to play victim, but all the feedback I've gotten from this comment is hostile
Really? You think THIS is being reasonable?
let me clue you in: it isn't. It's judgmental and makes unfair victim-blaming assumptions. It's no wonder that people react with hostility to such a presumptuous and scornful take on people just doing their best to get by.
I clearly state that sometimes people gotta work just to get by and I respect that. But for many of us, especially here on lemmy who tend to be older, this isn't the case. I get that it's a touchy subject, no-one wants to be told they are lazy or that they're living their life wrong, but I believe that there's some truth to it. I don't know what the sollution is, but I think admitting to it a society is the first step.
Because they need money to survive, and their parents can't help them financially sp they cant get a degree in whatever field, even though every position in the field requires it?
I mention that sometimes this is the case and there's nothing wrong with that. But you don't necessarily need a degree to do meaningful work or to chase your dreams, just effort.
In America, every job. People make it their identity. It's the first thing they ask or tell people they meet most of the time. They make themselves what they do.
I get both PoVs. For some, it's just a clock in clock out type thing they do just to survive and maybe pay for their other passions. For others, they spent a majority of their lives training, learning, licensing, and practicing a skillset to perform their work. It's fairly often a large part of one's identity and it's not a negative thing. Though it may be a negative thing to assume someone is only their job.
But I can hardly blame someone for seeing themselves first as a scientist, artist, lawyer, or whatever.
A healthy and balanced understanding of different people?? Isn’t this the internet!!!
Idk...I like my job and I'm proud I worked my way to get there. I get to see some really awesome things and I love my coworkers. Whenever I see my family, I like to tell them about interesting cases I've recently had.
If you work a boring shithole job then I get not wanting to talk about it. But sometimes people do interesting things that they want to talk about! :)
hell, I don't even like what I do all that much but I like talking about it, lol. It's interesting even though it's not my "dream" job.
the older I get, the more I realize there's depth to anything. whether you're a hair dresser, an engineer, or a physical therapist. you can read and learn and get deeper and deeper into the study of that thing. anything is interesting if you're curious about it.
I think there's something to that statement. Hell, my old job was essentially just a form of data entry, but I managed to find things interesting with it and actually rather enjoyed it. Pay was shit tho so I went back to school to get to where I was now. But I for the most part agree with you. You can find interest in many things if you try hard enough. Not the case with some, for sure, but it's definitely more than some people realize.
And being interested about a topic makes for a good jumping off point when getting to know someone.
I'd even say it's virtually everything. I can't think of anything personally. let me give some examples
Fast food worker? You start as a burger flipper or cashier and become interested in the management of the fast food place. You take on more responsibility just because you find it interesting - the logistics of making sure the basic ingredients are prepared and how many fries to have ready at specific times of the day, measuring how fast the average person makes a burger and seeing if you can optimize it, how to greet and talk to customers, how to resolve conflicts, how often do you need to clean, what is the best way of cleaning, etc.
This can even be a career. There are regional managers and consultants for these fast food chains that go around to audit and optimize different chains. See how we start with something basic that 99% of people treat as a dead end job but you can go deeper?
The same skills that help you manage a fast food place will inevitably transfer over to other management. You could be useful at a warehouse, factory, hospital, etc.
Let's say you dig holes for an underground construction company. You stick around long enough and they'll have you pull some coaxial or fiber through the pipe you're digging a hole for. After a while, you become good at it and that's your main job because it requires more skill than just digging holes. You start to understand how neighborhoods are wired, with the vaults spread every 150ft and how the hubs feed all of the houses in a neighborhood or businesses in a commercial area. you get assigned to a big project that requires splicing.
all of a sudden you're a fiber optic specialist and you have the skills to maintain large networks. you could be a repairman or an auditor or even a project coordinator for large projects
I'll give you an example that happened to me. When I was 19 and just got out of high school, I got a job at a warehouse. It was a cosmetic company that produced all sorts of different shampoos and conditioners and make ups and female hygiene cleansers, eyelash growth serums... all sorts of stuff.
I started off as general labor for the shipping department. I would sit around and wait for a big order to come in from a distributor and then go around the warehouse getting boxes and putting them on pallets. I would then wrap up the pallets and load them into a truck with a pallet jack.
Well, each pallet needed to have some paperwork done and then each overall order needed to have some paperwork done. this included the total weight of the pallet, the total units of product (different boxes have different qty of items. one box may have 24 shampoos but a box of eyelash serum may have 60), and then all of this needed to be put on an invoice and packing slip that gets taped to the pallet.
when I got there, I was trained that we would write this down onto a piece of paper with pen and then tape it onto the pallet. there were frequent errors (if the weight was wrong, we would get charged extra by the shipping companies or if we're shipping internationally it could get stuck in customs if you didn't have the correct paperwork). I was good with computers and knew how to use Excel. I was interested in how I could make the process more efficient (less work for me). I suggested a spreadsheet to my boss that had a table saved into a hidden sheet that had all the weights for each different box, as well as the total # of items per box. he said sure, why not. I weighed every single box and then also weighed an average of the pallets we had.
I created a spreadsheet template that would essentially fill everything in automatically, while also looking clean and professional - i put the company's logo in there. This would also pump out a packing slip and invoice automatically filled in from the data inputted.
my boss was elated. his department was more accurate and looked more professional, meanwhile we were doing less work. basically every day i walked around that warehouse i paid attention and looked to see what we could be doing better. how could we optimize?
very quickly they pulled me off of labor and I started working in the office. when I left that job, 4 years later, I was the manager of the inventory department - responsible for over $100 million worth of raw materials. i had 8 people under me. i was 23, didn't know wtf i was doing, but really i was just curious and interested in making things move more smoothly
Do you see what I mean? Anything is interesting if you're a curious enough person. There's stuff to learn everywhere. There are processes to optimize, there are intricacies and subtleties to everything.
You really think Americans start conversations in bars by saying, "hi, I'm a mechanic. What do you do?' This Internet idea of what Americans do is ridiculous. Anyone who spends time (paid or unpaid) doing something they're passionate about will talk about it.
Yup that's totally what I think, I'm definitely European. No way an American thinks that of America.
Going strait to meeting someone in a bar says something troubling about your life.
We're either friendly coworkers who invite other coworkers, or it's like a meetup group of people who like something and want to do it together.
If we meet at a bar with coworkers, we can network with each other and thus later on not need to trifle with management when we need help with something. "Oh yeah, Jane built this device, lemme ask her what the polarity is supposed to be".
Meetups with randos, we just vibe. Sometimes it's at a bar, other times at a restaurant. We just vibe, figure out what other people's passions and and get to know them.
CEOs and high ranking business people, what they get to do is not work or work significantly less than a working class people therefore I have no respect for most of em
The higher up you go the less work you do and the more stress you take on. You're essentially trading your peace of mind for more money.
When you work a simple manual labor job you clock in and clock out and then go home and live your life. Work stays at the office.
When you're an executive or a business owner you're working 100% of the time. Something happens, you need to respond. Sometimes you need to make hard decisions where you're fucked either way but you need to minimize damage.
You need to find solutions to problems and that keeps you up at night. Don't have enough money for payroll next week? How you gonna do it? Not pay vendors this week? Take out another line of credit at ridiculous rates? Skip a payment on your rent? Equipment financing?
You have to do something- you stop paying your employees and the company falls apart very quickly. Could start a chain reaction of good people leaving, making the situation worse. The buck pretty much stops with you, you can't pass off the problem to someone else.
It's not easy to be in charge. Lot of blame rests on your shoulders if things go wrong.
Of course that doesn't mean they deserve 10,000x the salary of a regular job. I think CEO pay should be capped to some multiple of regular employee pay. Whatever that scalar value should be 2, 5, or 10 I think is debatable. But it should be capped.
Moving from being a Product Owner, working on my own projects, to being a Product Manager who works with Product Owners on their projects/hands over projects to them, it is far more stressful. I end up being on the hook for everything, with an expectation that I know everything about a dozen projects, despite being far less actively involved in the underlying work of any of them.
Am an executive... agree with you on all fronts
"Running a business is hard work, you wouldn't believe the number of meetings-"
Oh yeah meetings where you and "experts" on maximizing profits talk about how many people you can get away with laying off this quarter and other meetings where you work out a deal to buy a competitor startup in order to immediately and intentionally run it into the fucking ground sounds really fucking essential to the world Allan
Small business owner here. Just to add to the other responses about the stress and responsibility as you move up that others mentioned here... I cover every one of my employees when they take vacation or sick leave. So I am often doing my job, plus another person's. It's not uncommon for me to work 12 hour days without breaks.
I don't think OP was referring to small businesses (< 50 employees), but more like 1000+ employees.
I am not reffering to small business owners, but big corporate executives
No one has said police yet?
that's not a job, some people are just Assigned Cop At Birth
They don't take it seriously enough. They go play army man.
Playing army would mean keeping their cool in hostile territory.
Actually it means raping brutalizing and killing civilians in territory where you are not welcome
YOU know that. They don't seem to.
I was thinking more that the general population takes them too seriously.
I disagree. They have the ability to kill people with little repurcussion
And yet people thank them for their "service" and put "thin blue line" flags in their yards. That is the kind of "too seriously" I am referring to.
That's just cause those people buy into the delusion the cops have.
But I agree with your overall point
Honestly in my line of work I seriously considered Police, but when I noticed it's essentially a cult I noped out of there
the problem with police is that
the people who should work as a police officer don't want to be a police officer
the people that shouldn't work as a police want to be a police officer
I don't think police is inherently a bad thing. It just happens to be because people who want power over others should not have power over others.
similar story with politicians. I'd prefer an honest politician. but the process of picking them selects for those who are dishonest.
Exactly, couldn't have worded it better. Obviously not all of them all of the time, but it is what it is
Work shouldn't be the primary source of stress in our lives no matter what the job is.
Brb gonna go try to hack the NSA so I have something else to be stressed about
I'll cop some shit for this one, but coffee baristas.
you put some grounds in a machine, twiddle some nobs and pour milk in a wave pattern
edit: judging by the amount of downvotes ive either pissed off all the Bachelor of Arts grads working as baristas or all the coffee snobs who still think making coffee is some sort of art that can only be done by the most highly trained baristas. Yes, I also love coffee. No, making it is not some sort of complicated thing which is the point of this post (and topic of this thread), and no, I am not disparaging anyone working as a barista (unless they are an Arts grad, sorry) because a job is a job and all jobs deserve respect
It isn’t making the coffee that’s hard, it’s being on your feet for 8 solid hours while getting assaulted by a Karen every 30 minutes and playing the memory game of 3 pumps vanilla no foam cinnamon powder vinti super choco-latte. The coffee is just a minor part of the job.
Tell me you've never worked in hospitality without telling me you've never worked in hospitality.
I spent years in restaurants and retail stores working thru my teens and twenties.
The management in those places is usually a joke. Over serious, under educated people taking themselves far too seriously. They work hard because they're inefficient most of the time, not because the jobs are actually difficult too. At least that's the experience I had along with my friends before we got wise and gtfo of that environment.
Best coffee is anywhere but the US.
From Asia to Africa, all the shops I've visited had good espressos and coffee.
Customer service is also a joke here.
I always wonder what little hell you people live in. There are fan fucking tastic local roasters across the East Coast. It's crazy easy to get day old roasted beans from just about anywhere on the planet here.
It's like the people who make fun of the food and have no clue.
Hope so you not have access to good coffee? Where are you located that you can't get anything good?
The definition of what "good coffee" is vary from place to place. The northeast has absolutely phenomenal American style coffee (focus on drip coffee and long pours), a lot of Europeans are after a really good espresso for €1.5.
What exactly is your definition of "taking too seriously"?
Discord mod
Reddit mod
Accounting and banking.
Meter maids (people who see if people didn't pay to park)
Agreed but I think in a lot of cities they’re gauged on performance by numbers of tickets issued, gotta hate the game for this one not the player who usually don’t want that job and just need the money
Park ranger. There are two kinds: chill and friendly, or the kind that make you show all your documents, prove your park stickers are valid, make you repark your car, and then scold you for being too loud even though the next nearest campsite is several hundred feet away and nobody has complained and you arent even being loud...
You're that camper. Turn the music off.
Nope, no music or media. Just sitting around the campfire telling stories and laughing. Sorry, but 9pm is not late, especially when quiet hour isn't even until 10 at that particular site.
I don't care that you like to get up at 5:30am for your morning run, I'll be totally quiet when the actual park rules say I have to be.
Hmm, doesn't sound overly specific for an assessment of an entire profession at all. DEFINITELY not based on a single day's experience 🤔
Rough trend.
Watch Joe Pickett :-) . Bad ass!
Chef. No I'm not calling you a special title and acting like this is the military and you are my commanding officer, we work at the Olive Garden.
All of them, I think.
unpaid ones
Middle management.
Mine 😔
Brain surgery
Relevant Mitchell and Webb
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Field technicians.
their own
Teaching. Everyone seems to think teachers are full of themselves until they become a teacher and become full of themselves themselves.
it's one of the most important professions but okay tell me more about how mrs dunn was mean to you and you suck at fractions
Read the OP title, it asks what job do people take too seriously. I answered. Anyone who ignores we did just fine without our current system of teachers for centuries is already doing exactly that, taking it too seriously. It has nothing to do with your strawman of me thinking a teacher was mean to me.
Go back to being an illiterate, muck raking peasant or die young in a workhouse then, I guess. Fucking hell.
People in all the past golden ages did just fine without having the teaching system we have currently.
You know who the "Golden Age" was golden for? The relatively few educated people.
And for general relative prosperity and trade.
And you somehow genuinely feel that the average person's prosperity was, relatively, better in that period?
Working 7 days a week, morning to night, producing that prosperity and trade for the educated class in exchange for a pittance. Whilst eating your table scraps in the dark, you can hope you don't die of a disease you have no idea how to prevent contracting.
You can measure the prosperity of an era by contemporary descriptions of their health, including how tall people were. So we definitely have proof people fared better then.
Would you want to factor in life expectancy at all?
Did I not?
It feels like it might impact your view a bit if you did.
As good as it is to be marginally taller for 30-40 years, or be a super tall person who died an infant. Not that the article you linked has any description of heights related to whichever "golden age" you might refer to, but whatever.
I love teaching, but the job of being a schoolteacher scares the heck out of me. Trying to earn the respect of 30 kids, while working from some standardized lesson plan, it sounds awful. I wouldn’t last a month.
Plus there's the problem of having to relearn subjects to such a level of mastery that you can teach them effectively. Like 2nd grade math isn't hard at all obviously but it's really hard to synthesize and break down all material in a way that a developing mind can grasp it.
I took classes which would qualify me to be a teacher. The biggest thing that scared me out of it were the unions and the fact they're not even legally questionable sometimes. I didn't want to become that. In the United States, the occupation has so much control that the head of the teachers' union is considered the most dangerous individual in the nation according to a poll/ranking. Not sure if anyone would be willing to accept that as context for my answer though.
Everyone should be in a union. I'm happy to hear teachers are successfully unionised in the US.
If you grew up here you probably wouldn't be saying this. Unions at their conception were supposed to be collectives of people who made sure they weren't mistreated, but today they're groups who use their membership numbers to make sure they get their way as often as possible. You may have heard about police here being notorious for overstepping in certain matters. In cases where this is true, that's with the unfortunate help of the police union, which practices a needlessly strong honor-based system of nepotism. Teachers here are the same way. If anyone in power even remotely brings up any proposed bill that works in favor of teachers, such as one that gives them less required work time or more pay, they will pressure it into materialization, and they will exploit anything and everything for their giant wolf pack, allegorically-speaking. With Lemmy having a strong anti-capitalist sentiment, it strikes me as counterintuitively argumentative that the same demographic would be so supportive of unions.
Giving support to a bill that benefits workers through collective organisation is precisely what unions are for. Why are you against people wanting a better work/life balance? Unionise and you can have one too.
Because that's not what they end up being used for most of the time, people here most often see them be used to impose one's group's interests on others, and these interests often dictate the fate of one's future in the job. The issue is so bad the occupation is stigmatized in less populated areas.
Programming. People treat it like a career, but fact is that unless your really good at it, your not going to make any money from it. I've found programming to be far more like art than work anyway.
Maybe I'm biased since I recently started working as a software dev, but you don't need to be really good to get a job as a programmer. I'm evidence of that.
Or any job. You underestimate how much any job is just being decent enough rather than amazing all of the time.
Yes I am fully aware of that. My point was that programming is just like any other job unlike what the guy I responded to seems to think.
Reading this, I'm not able to interpret what emotion applies here.
Sorry I typed this in a hurry. I just disagree with the statement and tried making a joke.
I got the joke, my response was in extension to it :)
damn dude know your audience, you're on Lemmy lol
Not sure where you're from, but here in the states, if you have a basic ability to code from a bootcamp or even self taught with a portfollio, you'll pretty easily get hired making anywhere from 45-55k a year. And after about 2-4 years, you'll pretty easily be making 70-90k sometimes more depending on where you live.
Professional software developer here. It’s definitely a career. I do agree it’s like art, it requires you to fit stuff together like a puzzle to get it to work. But I don’t think that makes it less of a “serious” career - there’s a lot of money in the field and as the world gets more and more invested in computing it’s become a very in-demand skill.
It is a career, for sure. It can be hard to get into, but I’ve been in the industry for a long time and I have worked with people who have been paid a developer’s salary for years who were unbelievably bad at their jobs.
I used to manage a software team - once I was trying to explain something to a coworker and asked them to write some code to loop from 1 to 10 for me, and they couldn’t do it. I even prompted them by saying “you know, write a for loop” and they said that they kinda knew what for loop was, but they wouldn’t know how to write one. I asked them to give it their best shot, just write the word “for” and then see what flows from there, but they were just not able to proceed. I explained how to do it to them, and then they asked me what an int (integer) was… but I had already explained what an int was the day prior. This person had an honours degree in computer science.
I’d say there are a lot of developers who are barely competent at copy/pasting code from stack overflow until it works. Maybe 10-20% of the people in SMEs are that. The majority are pretty decent, but kinda lazy. Then there are the incredibly competent and hard-working people who are like gold dust. A really good developer who isn’t a complete drama king/queen, has good communication skills and just gets on with their work instead of getting sucked into personal pet projects is incredibly rare.
I'm sorry but there's just no way that anecdote is true. I refuse to believe it.
Honestly, if anyone else had told me this story, I'd assume that they were either exaggerating or that they were being an asshole to the other person in a way that made them shut down and not really want to engage with them, but it's as near to an accurate recollection as I can make it. I've taught programming to people from all walks of life, from 13 to 60+ years old, I've mentored quite a lot of devs, I've taken kids from "yeah I'm interested in computers, I like playing games" to senior developers, and while I'm sure that my teaching style may not be perfect for everyone, I've never once heard any complaints that I made someone feel stupid, belittled or like they couldn't make mistakes. I always encourage people to be as honest and open about what they do/don't understand because if someone says "I don't get it" I can explain something in another way that might make it click. But yeah, that day when I had just been through the whole for-loop thing and he asked me about integers again, it was as close to just completely exasperated as I've ever been with mentoring someone. It was a surreal, groundhog day feeling, like I was sisyphus, and my boulder was explaining to a computer science graduate what a whole number was.
Are you sure you managed the team? I'm joking, but how did this person get through an interview, let a lone survive so long working as a dev?
Haha, it’s a fair comment - it’s a team I inherited, it wasn’t my hiring decision. I don’t know what the interview process was like before me, but I’m guessing it was a very old fashioned “where do you see yourself in 5 years” affair.
I’m pretty sure that they just muddled through by copy/pasting stuff seemingly at random and tinkering until it worked. Which can be a good way to learn, for sure, but it’s not really what you want from a professional developer, full time.
The guy who managed the team before me didn’t believe in object oriented design, and not in a cool Haskell way, in a really old fashioned “I can do everything with batch scripts” way. The team was using a programming language that was so old that they were using dosbox to compile it because the compiler was a 16-bit application.
Name the language, mate. This sounds a bit too insane to be true.
Yeah, it was called DataFlex. The vendor has released new versions of it called Visual DataFlex (VDF) and then renamed VDF back to DataFlex, but this language was what we called “character mode” DataFlex. It’s still used by the company as their main data entry application even today and a lot of their processes still are written in DataFlex. A lot of the work that my team did was rewriting a lot of the old crap in C#, but there was just so much of it built up over the decades.
I sucked balls at programming and made six figures.
Mate Im dogshit at programming and make plenty of money at it.
You can still use programming to leverage your current position.
If you work admin in an office and are able to automate a bunch of workflows with some simple scripts, you'll have more leverage when salary raises start to get discussed.
Will your code be at the level a professional programmer would produce? Probably not, but you're not competing with one.
Even better if you keep schtoom about it and automate your work from home job allowing you to just chill for most of the day.
Upvoted for use of British English word “schtoom,” a Yiddish loan word. I always thought Yiddish loan words were an American thing, thanks for the learning opportunity.
Hell the ability to write a basic sql SELECT statement alone opens a lot of doors.
proceeds to learn sql
By the way, SQL, sequel, or squeal?
(personally, I use sequel)
Can you please define that? Being the Internet, some define it as US$1 or US$250,000.
Depends where you live, and what the job market is like. The demand for programmers goes up and down over the years, with various tech bubbles growing and popping. There are some job markets during high demand times when any programmer with any level of skill can get a good job, can name their own price and make good money, but at other times there is oversupply of programmers, thousands of graduates apply for every entry-level job, where hirers have the advantage, they can name the price and pick only the best of the best. I've personally seen both situations in my career.
I will admit, once you get a few years of professional experience on your resume, your chances of landing a good job and making good money goes way up. And yes, it definitely can be a career.
It can be like an artform if you let it be. Or it can be rote and robotic. There are choices in how you express your talents, and how you approach given problems. Lots of people make money from good art anyway.
Maybe if you are a freelance programmer working out of a coffee shop...?
That’s why I switched sides. From programming myself to developing functions and writing requirements which someone else can implement into code. :)
I could do some programming (did embedded C), but surely I wasn’t the very best in it. So now I’m the guy who defines what a small (but essential) part of SW has to do which will run in hopefully a few million cars in a couple of years. :) Much more fun (and money).
What's your job called? I'm nowhere near your field, and am curious about y'alls org charts.
Business analyst I guess.
What crack are you smoking? There are thousands, probably millions, mediocre coders making 200k total comp+.
How did you come to that insane comment?
They took a few community college "video game programming" courses and got nowhere with it.
Skilled work often is an art.
I consider programming skills a very valuable skill that unlocks many career options, but if your job is morning but pure programming, yeah most people are not cut out for it.