I feel like we're all stuck in a movie where all the rich people live on some kind of floating island or satellite with everything they need to live well, and all of us have zero chance of going there
I have seen a few of these with similar story lines and realized we are living it right now. They have the best healthcare, the best food, the best everything and most of us are a few dollars from disaster. That scares some of us to death literally from all the stress it causes.
Elysium!
You’re not wrong. And anybody who could afford to stop them is too busy fighting a culture war to organize. Who do you think is stoking animosity? MLKJ wasn’t assassinated for civil rights, it was for the Poor Peoples Campaign. The only thing that could stop them is the unity of all those living paycheck to paycheck, regardless of religion or race.
I feel like a movement is actually happening, but slowly. Look at all these unions forming and people striking all around. It gives me hope, to be honest. The media is fighting it hard and somewhat succeeding, but just to an extent. We will win
That sounds like a pretty terrible dystopian movie that should not be made into real life.
So, please, support the WGA and SAG-AFTRA strikes. Hopefully there will be some good news soon.
Don't forget the UAW!
Of course. We are all in this together.
Any news on the strikes? Isn't there three different strikes going on at the same time? Writers, Actors, and CGI Artists I think.
WGA strike is basically over now, SAG-AFTRA strike is still going.
Just get your negligent employer to irradiate you and give you cancer, making you a man with nothing to lose and then go up there and get your cure while toppling the status quo. Easy.
Just give me a cool robotic exoskeleton and I'm sold
Bravo sir.
Bravo
Good sci fi usually isn't about the future, aliens, etc. It's about the present, but portrayed in a strange way so as to bypass your existing preconceptions about the situation, so you can look at it with fresh eyes.
It also makes it 'safe' to discuss controversial topics, because it's 'only scifi' (or horror/fantasy).
Allows creators and authors to fly under the radar with stuff that could potentially get you arrested, censored, cause controversy or end your career. Prime example, Tarkovski movies like Solaris or Stalker, which are full of religious metaphors, despite being released in the USSR.
It's okay. There will be no Elysium. They'll die on this molten rock right here with us if they're still alive by then.
I think our reality is more like Idiocracy than Elysium.
The people in Idiocracy were wiser because when they found the smartest person they put him in charge pretty much straight away.
Can confirm! Just rewatched Idiocracy.
it won't be a space station but on earth. the rich been building bunkers in new Zealand. which..has a really fucked up wealth disparity and cost of living crisis before it was cool.
good luck staying safe fuckers
If you want to hoard your supplies during the collapse of civilization, all you did was made yourself a target to the person with a bigger gun.
Bunkers ain't gonna do shit if they can't grow food
Well, you'll be pleased to know there are a lot of projects working on indoor vertical farming. Both as a method to spin up food production in heavily populated cities, and as a method for sustainable Mars and Moon bases. Which are effectively just bunkers, in space.
I think there will still be many places that will be livable even if the temperature rises to +10, such as Nothern Canada and Russia. So it seems probable "rich" people could be able to have their own colonies their, though it's probable rich will have a different meaning then, maybe more about water and food than numbers on the internet. Our species is far from endangered, it's rather our civilisations that are, the bad and the good in them.
All I know is the second the very second that we are sure they're starting to build the cloud cities, we need to start murdering people. You can't let him finish the cloud cities. Cannot happen. The second construction starts we start cutting off heads. That's our only chance.
Stopping things now would be easier than the future. In the future they'll perfect the killer dog robots etc. and things will get harder.
Mass surveillance is more powerful than killer dog robots and they already have it.The idea of solving our problems by mass murdering rich people was always stupid, but it's already too late for that anyway.
I am worried about the robot dogs. But Dave Anthony from the dollop brought up a great point. Someone figures out to hack the robot dogs, turn them on their masters, that would be pretty fucking awesome.
If that was a realistic scenario we would have already seen it with insurgents being slaughtered with drones and missiles turning the tables. How are you getting your stockpile of zero day exploits for military hardware? It's pure fantasy.
Military drones HAVE been hacked.
Literally anything can be hacked if you have the time and resources.
Sounds interesting, can you link a source? Who was doing the hacking? Whose drone? what was the exploit and how severe was it?
Still, as a broad strategy it's absurd. It isn't true that literally anything can be hacked. A correctly encrypted message? You're never decoding it, ever, with any amount of time or resources. The impression that everything is vulnerable comes from how much of our technology was built with a massive attack surface and no concern for security, it doesn't mean there's no need to worry about murderbots enforcing the will of a totalitarian state because you can always just hack them. The task of building them to keep that from happening is something they can put a lot of thought into and largely succeed at.
And again, it's pointless, because mass surveillance is already more powerful. You want to hack something, why not turn the NSA backdoors to your own purposes? It's not realistic.
We should start cutting off heads right now tbh
The ends do not justify the means
Oh no, they are not means. They are retribution.
Also: guns are bad, ban them all, only the police and military should own them...
Am I right???
Ah nice, the "everyone who isn't a conservative is on the left" tactic. It lets you compress 80% of all ideologies into "the left," which means you can accuse everyone in "the left" of the stupid shit tankies and liberals believe at the same time!
Kill now
They're not building a cloud city though. They are trying to get away with rockets and space ships.
You mean something like NEOM The Line in Saudi Arabia?
Nah, that's just the stupid ideas from stupid people that the actual arcology architects are saying "Let them cook!" about. It will be a case study when the real Elysiums start getting built.
The line . They are already building arcologies.
Same as it ever was.
There is water at the bottom of the ocean
Same as it ever was.
"Cyberpunk was a warning, not an aspiration," == Mike Pondsmith (creator of the Cyberpunk TTRPG)
People working 40 hours to make 10 things. Technology improves so that one person can make 20 things in 40 hours. People now get paid twice as much? People now only work 20 hours? Nope! Half as many people now work at the same pay. The rest have to go find something else to do.
What's your counterargument when I mention that technology creates jobs and specialty positions? Especially for autistic people.
I'm pretty sure @randon31415@lemmy.world was trying to create a simplified example. To include a generic autistic tech we can modify the example to "40 people making 10 things an hour. A clever autistic person comes along and writes a computer script that improves efficiency. Now 19 people make 20 things an hour, the autistic tech makes 5 times as much as one of the original people and has the specialty job of maintaining the script, the business owner lays off 20 people (4x of their pay compensates the tech) and the business owner pockets the other 16x as extra profit"
The 19 people still employed don't get any more pay for their extra efficiency, nor do they get any more time off.
The 20 people who were let go at no fault of their own now apparently don't get to eat or live or have any kind of security until they reeducate themselves to a new line of work.
The autistic tech doesn't understand where their additional pay comes from, but is happy to get rewarded well for their good work.
If questioned about why the 20 people needed to be let go, the business owner will blame the scripts efficiency instead of their own decision to pocket the money.
However, to answer your question directly: it does not matter how many new jobs or specialty positions are created - if the net pay available to workers is reduced and the net jobs workers can fill are reduced, some workers are destined to get the short straw.
People have been complaining about technology forever. The south complained about machinery that would make slavery obsolete. There's no pleasing these people.
This guy wants all of the benefits of technology at a low price, but doesn't want any of the change that occurs from that benefit. What happens if you make everyone work 20 hrs in his example? Everyone makes half what they did before and can't afford anything. What happens if you fire half the workers in his example? Half the workers can afford the tech but no one else. Which one allows the company to keep selling the tech? The scenario where half are fired.... BUT How about we keep all the people like he claims is possible? Then the price of the tech must double. But this guy doesn't want that because that must be a greedy company. So how will they pay all those employees? What happens when someone else makes the tech with fewer employees and thus lower cost?
So yeah... Tech always requires some to retrain. But society always benefits as a whole.
The only certainty in life is that life is uncertain. To complain about change is just being lazy and refusing to accept change.
|What happens if you make everyone work 20 hrs in his example?
If they are paid for what they make and not the time they spend, everyone earns the same and the workers have more free time. It is this insistence that pay = time which divorces productivity gains from benefiting the worker.
Competition. Someone is highly likely to figure out how to shave costs. Then the company can't even sell the thing and the people lose their jobs.
The point of an hourly wage is that it's a contract to be paid some hourly amount regardless of how many things are sold. The company bears most of the risk. Sales are always dynamic. So how can the company pay the employees for every widget made if the things they make aren't selling for a price that covers the cost of paying the employees?
Any thing created will never sell consistently and never sell forever. So again, skill must change. Marketable skills are always changing. During tech change, the price and demand of the old product drops.
From 1900 to 1920 millions of people lost their jobs to cars. They spent their entire lives around horses. Leather work, carriages, blacksmiths, farm equipment, etc. In just 20 years the horse and carriage was toast. Everyone had to reskill for cars and other jobs because cars took fewer people to make than trending to all the horse stuff.
A modern example is computers. Until the 80s and 90s there were huge work forces processing everything with paper. It wasn't just those workers that had to reskill. The paper mills had to reduce output. Fewer printing houses. Fewer printing press repairmen. Fewer parts manufacturers for the presses. Less ink. Less forestry management for paper. And so on.
Then how do we incentivize the non-shareholders into more efficient practices? Remember, Occam's Tweezers
Well on the plus side cardboard drones laden with explosives are cheaper than ever. /s
That /s is doin some heavy lifting
It wouldn't fly without the lift.
If anything they’ll start tunneling under the Earth to escape the brutal conditions they created on the surface.
How long until they farm us and eat us?
Ah, who am I kidding? Morlocks and Eloi would never happen. They wouldn't give us free food.
I think you have that analogy backwards. The point was that the industrial proletariat stayed underground while the bourgeois regressed into the eloi bc they had built the overworked utopia and had no need to do anything. This is the literal way the rich.
I feel like we're actually the prequel to WALL-E
It surprises me how many people dont realize that most rich people are rich because of poor people.
Stop change your phone each year, stop buying brand clothes, stop going to movie and music concerts. Start buying clothes by your local people, support new artists.
Have you read/watched Alita: Battle Angel? That's the situation there.
This is one of them. yes.
You should check out the movie Elysium.
I knew this reminded me of a movie, just couldn't remember the name. Thanks.
It has never been any different. It's worse and exponentially more visible, but is not new by any means.
There was a point, around the end of the Gold Rush and the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, when they were still building that floating city, that the common man could work his way up and get on it. Unfortunately, as time has passed and conditions have changed, the floating city is now all but completely out of our reach.
This won't last for long. This capitalist with corporate socialism system has a short life span eventually what happens is inflation moves the poverty line far up enough that it collapses. Right now people are struggling to purchase just groceries compared to just last year. Either regulation or wages move up.
Every capitalist society trends towards this, as too do all other forms of society as well. Also remember that in the Western world, even someone who is next to outright homeless can have a better life than something like 90% of people around the globe - the water from most streams is safe to drink (unlike many places in Africa and South America), there are currently no missiles raining down from the sky (unlike Ukraine), if you have friends or family that you can stay with there is a good chance that someone can make room for you (unlike super crowded places where there are already ~20 families in a small household - and at the risk of repeating myself, yes I meant families there, not just people), plus with a mere handful of dollars we can get treatments for diseases that even Kings and Pharos of the past who were considered to be literal gods could not.
So it is a spectrum where we are not as well off as we used to be a few decades ago, but are still doing well globally speaking. The problem is that we are changing, so not yet used to there being such rigid divisions between "classes" of people as now exist, so people still talk as if mere hard work is all that is required to deal with it. And they aren't even fully wrong, bc that really is a part of it, though there is a significantly higher uphill battle than there used to be.
Just do your best - what else could you possibly do even? - and also remember that kinder people are happier people, and that is literally something that no amount of money can buy:-D.
No, we still have a chance.
We could stage a revolution, overthrow the oligarchs and restart with whatever we want.
But it ain't gonna happen.
The problem: human nature is such that those who overthrew the tyrants would shortly find themselves in power. They might even be just and true leaders. But inevitably, greed will out. I suppose the silver lining is the resulting system of oppression might not be so... efficient as it is now.
The current system is in part because the rich got there by taking it from the previous leaders - every country has it's revolution story, sometimes multiple ones - and they don't want it to happen to them.
So more likely the new system would be even more efficient.
Or... we could Europenize America so everyone wins.
Well yes, those stories are often written as critiques/analysis of real world culture
Children of Men always struck me this way
Well they have been buying up the Hawaiian islands. I think Larry Ellis, Zuckerberg and few others have bought a ton of property on Lanai or Molokai.
Elysium
We need Alita battle Angel
You can try to climb to Zalem. Try is a key word.
Speaking of this, my amateur ass had an idea for a shelved sci-fi book where two people traveling through alternate dimensions ends up during one chapterin a world where the rich have fled theirs through dimensional travel. The idea of that world is that the remaining people on Earth fight to survive as the rich left behind devices that every so often go off and ends up destroying their natural or man-made structures and their farms too.
All of why this happened would be explained in a later episode where they find the rich people who explain they left because the resources on the planet dried up and they couldn't make any money off of a planet without resources.
Elisium. Great flick. Like all of Bloomy’s old stuff
And the rich have the rest of us bickering amongst ourselves about Team Red vs. Team Blue, and social media exacerbated this. News flash, if any of them actually cared, we wouldn't be in this mess.
Team Red has their side blaming immigrants and liberals for everything, while Team Blue has their side convinced that everybody on Team Blue is infallible just because Team Red exists.
Team blue is calling out Melendez for corruption. So maybe the infallible thing is false?
Every single time anyone brings up Biden's problems, the response is downvotes and "Doesn't matter because Trump exists." And I'm sure you've heard the mantra of "Vote blue no matter who!"
Are you sure the down votes are not because of what you said instead of who you said it about?
When it comes to "Vote blue no matter who" it is because team red has no plan other than get their guy in office. That guy fomented an insurrection, we all saw it happen live. That guy has already promised retribution if elected. There are groups readying plans to fire "non-loyal" federal workers the day that guy takes office and replace them with sycophants. That is literally an existential crisis for our country.
In addition, team red has tried to stop aid to Ukraine, repeatedly. Nobody outside of team red thinks it should be cut. Doing so would only benefit Russia.
Team red believes so much misinformation that they do not know how far out of touch with reality they are.
There are legitimate reasons to discuss politics when they have us so close to a precipice. I think we should be fighting about politics and wealth hoarders at the same time!
Yeah it's not about Dems thinking anyone is infallible. Largely they're pretty clear about denouncing their own when it's deserved. It's about being presented a ballot where your options are a polished turd or a fresh smelly chili shart plopped into a bowl and poured on your head. There are no good choices to vote republican, and when presented with this dichotomy I'll vote blue every time until a better option is presented to me. Get better candidates and then we'll talk.
That said I don't disagree with the core of your statement here. The whole institution is rotten to the core. I'm just tired of people projecting hero-worship onto democratic voters. That's a republican thing. We don't really do that. You have to earn the respect of democrats. I voted for Biden because I couldn't stomach another round of Trump and was presented no other option, and I'll do it again if I have to. Doesn't mean I love him. Doesn't mean I even particularly like him, because I don't really, I think he sticks too close to the status quo. But he's by far the lesser of two evils.
The downvotes are probably from people conditioned from experience to be dealing with rabid trumptards that either won't or can't listen to any viewpoint. A majority of arguments that begin with "But Biden-" fall into that category. Dems will listen to and readily agree with legitimate criticism, it just has to be couched within an intelligent argument.
I've found it to be quite the opposite. Team Blue opposes Team Red and half of the people on Team Blue too. It's split into all these different agenda and identity groups and they're all so very eager to tear each other apart with labels and accusations if you don't toe the exact line that's currently being drawn. It's a given that any time you have a large group of thoughtful individuals you're going to have some inter-group bickering. But Team Blue is more divided and combative against themselves than I've ever seen before in my lifetime.
Gunnm, Elysium and all this kind of films are a reflection of reality.
3% on Netflix is really good. Definitely do the english subtitles instead of the dubbing though, it sounds ridiculous.
This is what the Soviet movie kin dza dza is about
From the perspective of most of history, you’re that guy with everything he needs.
Isn't this the plot to elysium?
In all seriousness, its not impossible to go from the bottom to the top, but its definitely improbable. Anyone can do middle class. Just do middle class.
If you really want to go wild, sacrifice your pleasantries in order to save a bit and give it to your child a chance. Ill give you an example.
Jeff Bezos mother Jackie and father Tim when were 16 and 18 respectively when she was pregnant with Jeff. Jeffs first dad was a drunk asshole and they got divored. She met a Cuban Refugee named Miguel Bezos, who adopted Jeff. Jeff went and got himself into Princeton, where he graduated and started working for a financial tech company.
Now Miguel got his degree and was working for exxon. Thats how he was able to save up the $254k that he and Jackie loaned to Jeff. With that, he made an online bookstore called amazon.com. From there Jeff became the multi billionaire he is now. Oh, Jackie and Miguel got 6% each so they're billionaires too.
Now that's the American Dream. Even so, I think the question is, how rich is too rich?
I had a teacher who won the lotto. I don't take investment advice from her.
The odds of winning the lotto are better than being a billionaire off a business plan.
But imagine a world where if you capped over say, 1 billion, your excess would be funnelled into your employees.
You're right, with careful planning and hard work it's possible to better your situation or those of your children. (Though it doesn't always work) Even in our current system, statistically, some people will become billionaires. Do we think those billionaires lives are significantly better than if they were millionaires? If anything, judging by their behavior becoming ultra rich seems psychologically damaging.
On the other hand, we have millions of people who struggle to have enough food, to have a place to live, to get healthcare, to gain an education. Without a healthy environmental we face disaster that will cost many lives. I'd like to build a system where everyone has those modern rights. We need a systemic solution, personal effort is important but not sufficient.
They're gonna fall, we just have to stop saying yes. No more subscriptions, no more taxes, no more work. And we're getting so many, 30s and 20s, we're not buying anything anymore and most of all, we've been doing nothing. Soon billionaires will become millionaires and millionaires ordinary people.
We could bring everything to a screeching halt and change everything in months if enough of us did that... But only if enough of us were willing to stop paying rent and not being able to afford food. It would take at least a couple weeks, at most until the end of the quarter, before a renegotiation of the structure of society is on the table
Doing anything short of a full drop out in critical numbers will just lead to what we have now - modern capitalism cannibalizing itself trying to keep the exponential growth party going just a little bit longer... except everyone who committed to it end up further behind, sacrificing what they have now to speed up the process a bit
If you are young, they would trade a lot for the years you have left to live. Also, time value of money and all that. It's hard to fathom how powerful compounding is. Start investing small, start investing early.
Folks aren't even able to get out of debt. Considering debt generally has a higher interest rate than savings, folks are even held back from saving. OP even mentioned that straight out. If you're a disaster away from destitution, you aren't investing money. Money years from now isn't worth more than money today when your bills are due today.
Totally, debt stifles saving. All rich people are alike; each poor person is poor in their own way, or something.
It ain't about money. It's about time. The rich still die...
That's true, and it can be liberating. But for a lot of people, they have to dig into those investments every time something unexpected happens and they never really get to a critical momentum where compounding interest starts working its magic.
Yeah but it would be a lot better with socialized healthcare and free education.