Ukraine war: Zelensky says Israel-Gaza conflict taking focus away from fighting
bbc.co.uk
The Israel-Gaza war is "taking away the focus" from the conflict in Ukraine, the country's President Volodymyr Zelensky has admitted.
He said this was "one of the goals" of Russia, which launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.
And he denied that fighting in Ukraine had reached a stalemate, despite a recent assessment to this effect by the country's top military general.
Ukraine's counter-offensive in the south has so far made little headway.
This has prompted fears of war fatigue among Kyiv's Western allies, with suggestions of growing reluctance in some capitals to continue giving Ukraine advanced weapons and funds.
Never thought I'd agree with Zelensky about something related to Israel. Ukraine deserves aid much more than Israel.
I dont think Israel needs aid.
They are responding to an agressor just the same and doing a great job
The problem is they are also the aggressor and have been for decades.
Hamas and the Israeli government are both fucking awful.
Feels like a stretch to call carpet bombing civilians a great job.
Doing a great job at committing genocide
Israel absolutely does not need aid.
If they need more killing equipment, their ruling class can pay for it.
Indiscriminate bombing of innocent civilians, refugee camps, and hospitals, all while refusing to allow even basic aid, is not a "great job".
i mean, OP said they're doing a great job at responding [...] the same [way], not that they're responding in a great way
so OP is technically correct.
Technically the truth!
I hate to say it, but within minutes of hearing about the attack by Hamas against Israel, the unexpectedness of it, and the scale of it, I asked myself, “Who’s funding this,” and, “Who gains by this?” And my brain replied, “Putin.”
Sure enough within days his puppets in our government (the USofA GOP) start talking about reducing/stopping aid to Ukraine.
Republicans were complaining about aid to Ukraine long before this. Russia is not as sophisticated a puppet master as you think.
I'm pretty sure Iran arranged the attack, but Russia is definitely benefiting. That's not an accident
Aren't Iran and Russia buddies?
Iran's only buddy is Iran. They tolerate Russia because they're not the West and because Russia enjoys their saber-rattling.
A superficial alliance based on circumstances.
They're allies because they have a lot of shared interests.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
It's more complex than that, Israel and Russia have much more common geopolitical interest than you might expect if you follow analists: in Sirya for example. This while still having opposite positions about Iran. It's just a mess.
My college nickname was the analist.
because you always took it rectally?
yes
The most likely intention for the brutality of the terror attack from October was stopping the diplomatic processes between Israel and other Arab countries to establish somewhat normal relations. Putin and Iran are definitely indirect beneficiaries, but there's no need to create narratives where Hamas is the puppet of Iran or Russia because they did something that was aligned with their own interests.
I can't presume what you know or have heard, but Hamas is playing ball with Putin.
I mean, not to say you're wrong exactly, but that's not a new thing. Those same people have been demanding the same for a year and a half. Using Israel as their current excuse doesn't mean much, just that they're opportunistic shits, which isn't really news.
Plus Biden's proposed answer to this was basically just to double down on continuing aid to Ukraine, the aid package he requested for Israel also had a significant sum for Ukraine.
Russia seems determined to relearn the mistakes that lost them the cold war the first time around, that America wipes its ass with more money than you can afford to throw at proxies, and that doing so isn't even close to its largest military expense.
It's not just Putin, there's clear alliances forming: Russia, Iran, North Korea, Syria, China. Hamas was financed and trained by Iran, who have themselves been significantly supported by Russia. It seems that all MAD is doing is limiting the growing conflict to a Proxy World War.
Yeah I knew from the moment it happened that Putin was behind it. It's a distraction from a much more important war.
The one benefiting is actually Eroupe. Check the companies that can explore gas field in Isreal as of October 27, 2023
Check? Cite us some sources.
Just write in google Isreal Gas:
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/israel-awards-gas-exploration-licences-eni-bp-four-others-2023-10-29/
And here opinion article about it: https://www.planetcritical.com/p/everybody-wants-gazas-gas
And there more, including the Map they display during UN assembly calling for "The new middle East" and the agreement they signed with Lebanon, although Hizbollah control the government there. February of this year.
5 minutes search would reveal more..
It's really the greatest example of fuck around find out.
Punch someone in the head and they turn around and belt you, you kind of deserve it.
Punch someone in the head and now they're justified to bomb your entire city.
Hammas bombed Israel first
Israel was bombing Hamas for 15 years. Does your history start at October? Nonetheless this example is about killing civilians instead of the enemy and how it doesn't accomplish anything.
I really don’t think that’s what’s being said here.
If you think this is bad, just wait until China goes for Taiwan. "Like butter that has been scraped over too much bread."
China's collapse is coming with the rise of other regional powers to counterbalance it. It's right around the corner. Any day now.
I don't know if China is going to collapse any time soon (at some point they will though). At risk of sounding like a conspiracy the world order is changing as America is no longer the sole leading power, trade and infrastructure development are heavily tied to China, and we are too reliant on their cheap goods to go against them.
China is not going to go for Taiwan.
Wish you guys would get this fantasy out of your heads.
My understanding is that they know it’s not worth it for them. But unfortunately the “glory “ of the “reunification “ makes it worth it for their leaders that want to be remembered for this.
source?
The number of opportunities they have to actually pull it off are so few and far between just from demographics, geography, and meteorology alone, that you can count with two hands the exact number of days between now and when the window will basically close permanently when they could even hypothetically make an attempt at it without cursing their entire invasion force to the bottom of the sea before they even encounter a defensive line.
Not to mention the rumours that Taiwan has developed a non-nuclear MAD doctrine which would allow them to instantly turn 400,000,000 Chinese citizens into refugees by blowing the 3 gorges dam. A scenario that would require China to turn any deployed forces right around to institute martial law.
Their best bets are;
a) when Trump is convicted
b) when Trump wins
c) when Trump loses
All three of those provide a large enough window where the US will be too busy to stop them
While it’s not telling what the US will do afterwards the question is would they rather have a defensive or offensive position
How about you try to prove a positive instead of asking for a source to prove something isn't going to happen, debatelord
True, you can't prove a negative, but at the same time that person made a firm statement, so someone else's totally in the right to ask for citation to backup what they said.
They could have supplied quotes from Chinese leaders stating that they were never going to invade, etc.
Anyone who asks someone to prove a prediction is categorically an idiot
Nobody asked for "proof of a prediction", but to back up their opinions that they are expressing as facts with some actual facts.
U.S. top millitary advisor mark milly
source: https://www.globalplayer.com/podcasts/episodes/7DrfQik/
No, they meant credible sources. ESPN is a more credible source than the US military.
Oh yes, the U.S. military... pretty much the last people in the world you should trust.
Element of truth to that wild comment, so I'll let it pass.
Uhh, a passing acquaintance with reality?
Let us know by what time you think China will invade Taiwan.
When that year comes and the invasion doesn't happen, either admit you're wrong or double-down.
he said source.
as in, reason us why? china has clearly expressed this desire over Taiwan, why wouldn't it invade ever at all on a timeline?
I don't care what he said.
How much time needs to pass before you admit you're wrong?
then shut the fuck up you unanswering cunt. lmfao what arrogance
these reditgrants are sure pain in the ass.
i just asked for proof and they started blabbing. at the same time these hypocrites also dislike religions.
Generally speaking, you should consider that some of them are actually bots/shills sowing unrest to shape a narrative.
Joined 4 months ago.
lol you joined less than 3 months ago.
But except for you, I'm not calling people out for their account age.
you just said i joined 4 months ago though
Okay. 10 years. 20? How much time needs to pass before you admit when you're wrong?
When do you think China is going to invade Taiwan? 1000 years from now? Lol.
so you admit China will invade?
While they been talking about it for a long time, true, what's change is that in recent times they've been building up their military forces a lot, and doing very political/military moves in the waters between them. They're definitely ramping up on their actions and/or responses, signaling, probing. And this is new.
How far that escalation goes, nobody knows, but usually if somebody says they're going to do something, you should take them at their word that they're going to do what they said they were going to do, at some point in time.
🥱
What's wrong with you?
I'm allergic to bullshit
Sick burn!
Alright. Let me know when China invades Taiwan and then I can admit when I'm wrong.
When that happens, we'll all be worrying about other very more important things than your fragile ego, to take the time to let you know.
Right. I won't hold my breath.
Wow, you didn't just move the goal posts, you shipped them cross state.
And that ratio, yikes!
Dang, you're really dedicated to this.
Lol, gonna block you now. Getting annoying seeing you reply to all my posts.
Do you really lack self-awareness? lol
I really think they do - looking at their comment history (after they commented on one of mine) Im not sure if they are trump-level clueless or a troll... think they are the most downvoted user I've seen on here.
The guy replied to say he's blocking me.. OH NO.
Anyway.
I don't click on people's profiles then respond to all their posts, lol.
Gonna block you too, though. Thanks for the reply.
Pathetic.
There's this thing, it's called, "scrolling down", when reading a conversation topic.
Nice attempt to 'Kill the Messenger' though.
It's called normal scrolling, and seeing your next comment.
Actually, this is not the first time you told me you were blocking me. Please try to get it right this time.
If you can't handle disagreement with your opinions, move on, or stick your head in the sand, aka block.
Oh no, how dare they start a vicious campaign of... replying to your comments.
Yeah, some would call that harassment.
I'm gonna block you now too. Thanks.
Ok, thanks!
Source?
By 2080 either China will invade Taiwan or have a completely different government. There is no way the CCP doesn't invade Taiwan by then
I predict that by the time I'm dead and no one can tell me I was wrong...
Cool. I guess most of us will be dead by then, so we never really get to see if you're right or wrong.
Great argument.
Argument?
Just like Russia never being stupid enough to invade Ukraine, right?
No. Ukraine is not nearly as strategically valuable to the US as Taiwan.
Try to focus on the subject at hand instead of resorting to analogies.
A lot of things in China are going downhill: trade, banks, real state. China isn't just going for Taiwan, it's projecting imperialism all around, even with India, another BRICS member. Taiwan is just the biggest mark. I wouldn't cross off options for what imperialist despots will or will not do when they become increasingly desperate.
Imperialism? Get a grip.
If you take him at his word, then that implies that Putin and Iran teamed up together to start conflict in Gaza, purposely to reduce support for the Ukraines in their war.
Be really sad if it's true, as that means people are dying in a war in one part of the world to support a war in another part of the world, a war they have no part in.
You're actually entertaining the idea? lol.
Vs?
Letting it be bored?
If it's an effective distraction and Putin and Co. have fully taken advantage by increasing their bombings in the interim, and taking into account the state of information warfare, who is to say that they're not fanning the flames in their favor?
There are clearly degrees to which one conflict can influence another and I wouldn't put it past the power-hungry politicians to strategize around every opportunity they get.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
https://lemmy.world/post/7873679
It's creating a new front in regards to the proxy wars. Russia still has the numerical advantage over Ukraine in regards of people it throws into the grinder, but now Iran can get more involved by trying to harass through the Israel-Hamas conflict which decreases the provisions available for Ukraine.
Zelenskyy wants Ukraine to be another Israel: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/zelenskyy-wants-ukraine-to-be-a-big-israel-heres-a-road-map/
Which is... interesting... but he'll never replace America's #1 beloved darling sweetheart.
I think Israel right now wants to be Ukraine. Ukraine has won the people's hearts by fighting so hard despite overwhelming odds. They're paying with their lives to stop Russia not only from destroying them, but also from invading other parts of Europe.
They should be honoured.
Well, the naming of the article has sure aged liked milk.
Any pro russian dumbass can point to it (without reading it, of course) and scream: "SEE SEE! THESE EVIL UKRAINIANS WANT TO KILL ALL RUSSIANS 😭😭😭😭" while the article just says they need to focus on security and intelligence which (until now) Israel was known for. The attack shows it wasn't really true.
Has Zelensky ever condemned Israel's war crimes? As one occupied people to another?
Sounds like a strategy with little to win and a lot to lose. He would be angering the nations giving him all his supplies and giving Russian bots fuel for the "Ukrainian nazi" story.
Is this how we turn against him now? Because he hasn't spoken out about this other conflict in a whole different region being fought for completely different reasons by unrelated people?
Please spare me this crap.
No no, Russia, Ukraine, Israel, Palestine and Iran are colluding to enrich the military industrial complex!!1!
I doubt it.
No, but Putin has.
He's a Jew.
Quit conflating zionism with judaism. The state of Israel does not represent jews around the world.
Not relevant.
United getting divided.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
This has prompted fears of war fatigue among Kyiv's Western allies, with suggestions of growing reluctance in some capitals to continue giving Ukraine advanced weapons and funds.
Russia's defence ministry was later quoted by the country's state-run news agencies as saying that 13 out of 15 Ukrainian missiles fired on the plant in the city of Kerch, eastern Crimea, were shot down, but a Russian ship was damaged.
Speaking at Saturday's briefing in Kyiv with visiting European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, Mr Zelensky said: "It's clear that the war in the Middle East is taking away the focus" from Ukraine.
The Ukrainian leader recalled that last year, there had also been a lot of talk about a stalemate on the vast battlefield in Ukraine - but he pointed to Kyiv's subsequent major military victories in the north-eastern Kharkiv region and Kherson in the south.
"All the [war] goals that were set must be achieved," Dmitry Peskov said, adding that Ukraine must realise that "even talking about any prospects for the Kyiv regime's victory on the battlefield is absurd".
President Putin has repeatedly claimed that Ukraine's counter-offensive had failed, while his Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu said this week that Kyiv was losing the war despite supplies of new weapons from Nato allies.
The original article contains 698 words, the summary contains 213 words. Saved 69%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
What is taking away the focus is the fact that he supported the ethnic cleansing and genocide that Israel is committing in Palestine. So he thought that these things are not inherently bad, but only bad when they are happening to yourself - and fuck everyone else.
Now he's just finding out that that might not have been the smartest move, if he have to explain to the world again that they must give a fuck about his war.
Source?
Source of what??
"he supported the ethnic cleansing and genocide that Israel is committing in Palestine."
You can't make a blatantly inflammatory comment like that without being asked to source it.
https://www.axios.com/2023/10/11/zelensky-israel-hamas-war-gaza-visit-netanyahu
"Zelensky was one of the first leaders to call Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and express support for Israel.
"In the face of such a terrorist strike, everyone who values life must stand in solidarity ... Israel has the full right to defend itself against terror," Zelensky said in a statement shortly after the attack."
It's a bit of a leap to go from that to full on support for ethnic cleansing.
No it isn't. "Israel has a right to defend itself." He said the line.
That is not the same as calling for ethnic cleansing.
Someone punches you in the face, you have a right to defend yourself. You don't have a right to kill them, burn their house down, murder their entire family, and then take out the rest of the block "just to be sure".
Okay devoid of all context and reality and focusing only on the rhetoric, you have a point.
Now imagine if I commit a genocide while claiming a right to defend myself, like the Nazis did? How is that phrase being deployed in that historical example?
If you claim a right to defend yourself while committing a genocide, it is in fact the same as calling for genocide.
Because the Nazis weren't defending themselves?
If you had asked them, they would have told you differently. They would have told you about the long and complicated history that brought them to that point and the necessity of their actions. They would have told you about the barbarism of their enemies and the atrocities they carried out.
It doesn't matter what they told you, it's an objective truth that they were not being attacked by the groups they were seeking to exterminate.
There are heroic stories from the Warsaw ghetto and partisans who refused to be captured and took to the forests that you'd be erasing by making such a claim. Martyrs. Examples you and I could only hope to live up to if we found ourselves in their shoes. Resilience against pain and suffering the likes of which we can only read about. The human spirit will not allow itself to be extinguished without a struggle. Those who wish to extinguish it will always have examples of violence occurring against them.
After they were ghettoized... they did nothing to GET ghettoized.
So did he change his mind or not?
Saying Israel has the right to defend itself us not the same thing as your accusation of supporting ethnic cleansing.
If you can source that accusation, I'm sure people would love to see it.
Thought so.
Means I can safely disregard your statements.
Always been safe my dear.
Really? Zelenskyy supports Israel killing civilians?
Why would that surprise you in the least?
Yes, why the fuck wouldn't it surprise you?
Because his very political existence has been to pull Ukraine to the west and Israel is the US's 51st state. Things are going very badly for him and he's eager to get as much favor from the patron state as he can. He's going to get eaten alive by his local politics.
He doesn't? Did he change his position and I missed it?
Don't focus on them...
What about meeeeeeeeeee?
Diverting aid from fighting fascists so that we can fund fascists. Yes, it's fucked up.
It’s best that this conflict ends sooner rather than later. I’ve heard that Ukraine is outnumbered 3 to 1 and is sending injured soldiers and teenagers to the front lines. There’s no hope of them winning. Hindsight is 20/20 and it’s clear that the Ukrainians’ best option would’ve been to surrender in February 2022 and negotiate a peace agreement when they still had some bargaining power. Now they have none and this guy will go down in shame as Ukraine’s worst leader.
Shit the fuck up you worthless fuck. Russian piece of shit.
They did have a peace agreement after Russia invaded…in 2014. Russia was handed Crimea. Yet, Appeasing dictators was proven yet again to not work. So, today they defend themselves from the invader.
We must continue to support them, we must continue to ensure Russia does not win their war of conquest.
You’ve lost the plot. More weapons can’t solve a lack of soldiers. Unless Western Europe/NATO plan to start WW3, the outcome has been decided. The humane thing isn’t to cheer for more war, but to understand that cheering for war itself was a mistake.
We were told Ukraine could win. We were told wrong. The people who gave us this false impression also told us we’d win the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Last I checked, those wars didn’t result in the victory we were promised, either.
Every gun and dollar given to Ukraine is a gun and dollar used against Russia, one of the US's most obnoxious enemies. Every resource that Russia has to spend in the war is more expensive for them than it is for us, which will give them less resources to spend on being a pain to the US. Ukraine has almost no reason not to fight since losing means a loss of their country anyways, we could either take advantage of this opportunity or we can wait until Ukraine is weaker.
At least this take is honest about the disregard for human lives as long as it furthers the interests of the US.
The better option would be to not help Ukraine and allow them to be steamrolled by a genocidal Russia? That is somehow better for Ukraine? They are fighting for their lives, we must continue to give them the tools to not be massacred by the invader.
Get the fuck outta here.
Fuck off.
It’s better that Putin hangs.
Found the tankie
Get lost
There is a war of misinformation and propaganda (on both sides), the " I've heard" are especially worthless.
C'mon, you couldn't even TRY to go beyond the script?!?! 🤣🤣🤣
found the russian troll
Unfortunately you don't have to look very hard around here to find them. Lemmy is absolutely swarming with paid propagandists from the usual suspect countries.
Pathetic.
Wasn't that peace deal more in ukraine's favour at the time? And then their western allies ordered them to refuse it?
No.
Yes. It was Boris Johnson who made the call and Zelenskyy did as he was told.