This is going to seem minor, but it was a shock to me.
I grew up in Texas. I lived in very metropolitan places -- near downtown Dallas, and near the Houston medical center. So I never thought that I was culturally isolated or anything.
When I finally left the state for a job, I went to Los Angeles, circa 2007. In my first week there, a lady pulled up next to me on the street and asked me where the courthouse was. I had a vague idea, but explained that I was new to the area so my advice should be taken with a grain of salt. People familiar with the LAX area will know that the nearby courthouse is a tall building with something resembling a crown or halo, I pointed her toward that.
It wasn't until a couple of minutes later I realized what seemed strange about the encounter. The lady was of African-American descent.
I thought back on 3 decades of living in Texas, and I cannot once remember being approached by a black stranger and asked a question. Not one single time. Houston has a large homeless population, I had many encounters with panhandlers. I couldn't remember one single black person.
In fact, as I thought about it, a HUGE difference between Texas and California was that black folks on the street behaved very differently. In California, they looked you in the eye, they said "hello", etc. In Texas -- at least, up until I left in 2007 -- black folks were strictly "heads down, eyes on your own business". Even thinking back on some black friends and co-workers, I realized that they behaved very differently in public than my white friends did.
The whole thing made me sad for my black friends back in Texas. And now that we know how police treat black folks, I guess I can see why they behaved the way they did.
This was not the kind of answer I was expecting. Thank you for sharing.
I moved from California to Texas, and that has not been my experience at all since getting here. Perhaps it's the city I live in, but black people here seem no different than any other person, same as my experience when I lived in California. The percentage of the population that is black here is much, much higher, though.
I've lived in Houston my whole life and I have no idea what this guy is talking about. It's one of the most diverse cities in the country of course we talk to each other lol.
Same here in Houston. I have no clue what this person is talking about. I have had many black people talk to me, and I work with quite a few. There's nothing odd about our encounters.
I must admit that I eventually got used to it and even started enjoying this attitude, which I also took part in, but I was quite amazed by the Finns.
For work reasons, I had to spend three months in Espoo and the interaction with my colleagues was strangely cold in social interactions. Examples:
In the office canteen, they would sit next to you and start eating without even greeting or making conversation. I wondered why they had chosen to sit next to me.
When they finished eating, they would get up from the table and not say goodbye.
The scrupulous respect for personal space: in queues, crowds, etc.
Small talk was generally non-existent. People often preferred to stay quiet rather than chat about the weather or other common topics. Even in an elevator, silence was the norm, not the exception.
During meetings, the Finns would often speak only when they had something substantial to contribute. The silence in between wasn't considered awkward, but a moment of thoughtfulness and respect for others' ideas.
I ended up enjoying this way of social interaction. It seems to me that one uses less energy in social situations. There's less stress about having to make conversation or engage in small talks.
Love you Finland.
Right ... TIL I'm finnish and must have been adopted ... cool!
As an American I don't want to interact with my coworkers. As an Italian I don't want to either. I am so happy wfh right now. Socializing with people who aren't my friends is not something I enjoy.
@Ataraxia@darkl1nk My boss tries to socialize and game with me on my time off, but I mostly avoid this at all costs because it keeps me in a workplace state of mind and it feels like I can't escape my job
Even if it was possible to feel at ease and not in a work mindset while hanging with them, it's just wise not to get that close, it makes it harder in future to be selective in what you divulge about your private life which can give your boss leverage over you. Sometimes you may need a "sick" day and it's just better if they don't know enough personal information to be able to determine how sick you are and make everything awkward.
That might seem dishonest, but there's reasons why you might need to the employer to know only what they need to know and they aren't necessarily laziness or incompetence. It's a shame because it's nice that your boss wanted to be friends but unfortunately there's always going to be that fact that they're your boss which gets in the way of that and everyone is better off keeping things arm's length
This makes me want to go to Finland for a visit. The lack of small talk seems very efficient.
Maybe they wanted to conserve calories during colder climates. I wonder if other cold climates have less small talk in social settings.
"Shut up! I'm trying to stay warm here." - Some ancient Finn
I've heard it's fairly expensive place to visit though 😅
Going to sound weird but going to one of my childhood friend's house
He had a loving family where everyone was happy and helped each other. They communicated with each other happily about things that interested them. They were unafraid to share what was on their minds and what they were passionate about. They asked each other to do things without threatening or screaming. When they did have disagreements they talked them out. They'd say, "I love you," without a hint of pain or irony.
It was jarring. It threw me off. I went over to his place a lot (like literally almost every day for the time were friends) and it wasn't until I had been going to his place for a few weeks did it dawn on me that I had never seen his parents argue.
And honestly one of the most eye opening experiences from when I was young about how a family is supposed to function.
I guess you could say it was culture shock because my relatives operated on a culture of fear, hatred, and a lack of love. The phrase, "You have to love me, I'm family," was uttered entirely too many times. Violence and the threat of violence was the only motivator my relatives used.
I was friends with that guy for 3 years. I'll never forget his parents telling me that they saw me as family. I'd say those years did more good for shaping who I am today than all the years I spent with my relatives. I look back fondly on the time I spent with them. I wish it didn't end the way it did though.
I hope they're all doing well.
Sounds pretty similar to how my gf responded to my family. We don't always realize how lucky (or unlucky) we are.
I didn't realize how lucky I was to have my immediate family, my mother's extended family, and my husband's family. We get along well and can talk openly even about contentious or difficult issues. My mother and her sisters have showed an excellent way to structure a family, where each has specialized on certain areas: finance, technology, organization, etc. They all have a deep trust built up over a lifetime that they will work in the best interest of each family member.
As I got older, I started hearing people's experiences with terrible family situations, chiefly online. I also started to hear and see more of my dad's side of the family. Two individuals on that side have bipolar disorder. My grandmother's bipolar disorder destroyed her marriage to my grandfather and led to a messy divorce. The treatment that was given in those days likely did more harm than good. Then my uncle also has bipolar. His bipolar destroyed a marriage. Unfortunately, Switzerland where he moved to has old fashioned laws that allows one spouse (my uncle in this case) to drag their feet on a divorce.
There is also some distrust between other family members involving my grandfather's second wife splitting him from contact with his beloved sister and her family. Of the family I listed in the first paragraph, I simply cannot imagine any of them doing something that horrible. I would consider that intolerable in my own marriage, not that my husband would think to do so (he was friends with my husband in high school).
What happened? Sounds like you guys stopped being friends after 3 years.
Little kids taking a shit literally wherever in China. They have special pants (NSFW?) so they can just crouch down and take to take a dump in a shopping mall, the street, the subway ...
This was more common back in 1980s and before, when it wasn't urbanised enough to have public bathrooms. Nowadays of you do that, passerby will give you white eyes.
I live in China. It still happens today and nobody bats an eye. I've seen a kid shit on a hospital floor 2 weeks ago, and some old guy pissing against a wall of a shopping mall just yesterday. And this is in a Tier 1 city.
Regional differences? It is, after all, a very big country.
What the fuck…
The same thing I thought when I saw it. Not sure yet how things work here, but if there’s a wtf here this should go there.
You'll literally shit your pants when you learn about the indians, jej
Same for me. It was particularly vexing seeing a child pee into a plant outside an open shopping mall in the center of Shanghai. The restrooms are free, why not just take your kid inside??? The other thing that got me was people refusing to let you off the subway first before they make a mad dash looking for seats. The same happens on the elevators, but there aren't seats so that one is even more confusing.
That's a society which had lots of hierarchy and very little social or even territorial mobility until very recently. And those people's ancestors were likely peasants who'd just live all their lives growing crops in very scary conditions.
I mean, I've heard these things about China and manners.
I've event heard maybe not so scary, but similar things about Russia and manners in the early XX century (since I live in Russia, I do believe they are correct).
I certainly agree with the possible cause. The part I can't figure out is the lack of logic in the actions. Why try to push into the people attempting to get off the elevator when one could just wait a few seconds and get on in a more efficient manner? It all seems to increase the time it takes.
I've been told that many generations grew up in conditions where they had to fight and struggle for everything. If they allowed someone else to go first or get something before them, then they would lose out. Only oneself and family, everyone else is one their own. I suppose this overrides the logic I mentioned that is missing in the scenarios. I don't think they're trying to be rude, they've just been taught since birth that if you want or need something (like getting on an elevator), then you do it however you can that ensures success. In the elevator example, if you do wait for people to get off, others might not and could fill up the elevator before you get on, thus leaving you to wait for possibly several more minutes.
Well, analogy is not a sufficient method of argumentation by itself, but I suppose things I'll write would be even more visible in Chinese villages 100 years ago.
In Russia the peasant commune as an institution was created artificially (so all those Russian narodniks glorifying it as something perfect and wonderful untouched by bureaucratic machine coming from the depth of ages were just stupid ; it's one thing one can't argue with Lenin about - they didn't have a bloody idea of what that "people" they considered inherently virtuous was) somewhere around Peter the Great's time. So it's had enough time to mature.
That commune had enormous families living together, with the patriarch (the oldest man still able to work and do things) being basically a despot. It was literally not so rare for him to casually sleep with wives of his sons and nephews, for example (if not daughters and nieces). Nobody could refuse him.
Again, that whole family would live in one bloody place, together. No personal space or individuality at all.
In such an environment, first, you don't act differently (either you'll seem weak or you'll cause envy, both are worse than any gained efficiency justifies), second, your value is so low, that nobody cares if you make it, third, in a despotic system your own attempts at planning usually don't work, so you don't learn to do it, and planning is what's needed for more honest behavior to be advantageous.
So yes, you are right.
I've got to say it was pretty shocking to be fresh off the boat, walking down the street, and some kid just bolts out of a store, drops her pants and starts pissing next to a tree.
Between this and gutter oil (Google it, or actually maybe don't), it sure doesn't leave me with a great impression of China and hygiene.
I actually saw them doing that once near where I lived. Thankfully I never ate there.
you're hella brave saying that on lemmy.ml
Lol at least he isn't tainted by the political drama yet.
How prevalent alcohol culture is in the West. I'm Southeast Asian and it's more common for us to drink sugary drinks and have food at the local corner restaurant at night instead of having alcohol when we spend time with friends.
When I studied in the West, it really struck me how the only place you really could hang out at night was the bar, and alcohol was often the preferred drink. And they normally closed at 12am, so you can't even stay out that late.
Personally I'm not very fond of inebriation just due to the issues it creates (not that my friends were alcoholics and got blackout drunk every time we hung out), so I found it kind of bad that it's so socially accepted to see a need to get drunk in order to tolerate socialising with friends.
I'm not much of a drinker myself but. Some people use alcohol because it makes them "open up" and it's easier for them to have fun that way. (this is what the finnish song "cha cha cha" is about.)
The Finnish song Cha Cha Cha is awesome. It should have won Eurovision!
Australian here, we have the same culture but it doesn't finish at 12am, I found the Cinderella rule in the USA weird.
Here in NYC last call is 4am. Whenever I travel I always find it really weird that most places in the US close so early.
as someone from Berlin, it's wild that you even have a "last call" rule in so many places/countries. Bars and clubs here can just decide themselves, when they want to close. There are even a few 24/7 places.
Plenty of people in the West find the alcohol culture frustrating, especially recovering alcoholics. Personally I can't drink much, so I tend to find myself sipping on a cranberry juice.
Well, I personally get drunk quicker due to metabolism and my hangover starts the same day.
That is, compared to most Europeans, but I've heard that for SE Asia this would actually be the norm.
So one can say in this case culture just follows structural difference.
But - yes, it's much nicer to be with friends when they are not drunk.
Except for beer, there are weaker sorts, and the effect of hops on people I actually like.
Believe it or not it was a trip to Memphis for training from Canada. I am not well travelled by any means. I made it into Memphis and after a short ride, arrived at my hotel. The people who worked there were some of the most lovely people I have ever met. Southern hospitality was in their soul. I even got to sit down one afternoon with some other guests and hotel staff to discuss differences in politics, healthcare and so on. It blew my mind when people were telling me the expense of just having a baby delivered at their local hospital. I could not wrap my mind around not wanting socialized healthcare. It was the first evening in the hotel, I decided to turn on the local news for Memphis. This was the first real culture shock. The violence. Shootings, stabbings, robberies. I honestly went from feeling like this place is amazing, to this place scares the sh!t out of me. I could not understand why in a place where I had met such beautiful and lovely individuals had to live in a place that was so violent. So after my training week had finished up I decided to head to Beal street and walk around the downtown core a bit. Beal was very much what I had imagined. Kind of felt like a tourist trap. Anyhow I ventured off the beaten path and headed into the town to do some shopping around. I had left a local record shop and heard the ranting of some biker coming out of a building. He was yelling the most racist things if I have ever heard. I was floored. Most of the racists I have encountered where I live are old asshats who keep it secret. But this man out in the street let his hatred fly.
Memphis was this weird crossover world where I was treated like gold and at the same time had to feel afraid for my safety. It still blows my mind the racism and bigotry people still face. It has stuck with me for years.
could not wrap my mind around not wanting socialized healthcare
Listen to this podcast
Frame Canada: Wendell Potter spent decades scaring Americans. About Canada. He worked for the health insurance industry, and he knew that if Americans understood Canadian-style health care, they might.... like it. So he helped deploy an industry playbook for protecting the health insurance agency. https://www.npr.org/2020/10/19/925354134/frame-canada
What a travesty.
You can say shit on the internet
No you need to say sh.it
Pre pee poo poo
That's my home. <3
Absolutely beautiful people. I wish the love and care I felt was how everyone treated one another there.
To be fair, the media absolutely plays up the violence about 1000x because it gets the most views / clicks. Don’t get me wrong, there is a ton of violence, and it’s absolutely a problem in the US, but the news has it pumped up to 11.
Can't imagine forcing people to give birth and then charging them for it.
There's over 300 million people. take care of each other
When my Muslim coworker told me that they didn’t use toilet paper and found it disgusting.
I later got a bidet and have never looked back.
Here we are, back to pooping again
the internet is for
porn
cat pictures
poop talk
They just air dry? I'd still use a little after.
The bidet has a hot air dryer. Truly living in the future.
butt air dryers, like hand air dryers, are good in theory but horrible in practice. they blow toilet air around and blast infectious particles EVERYWHERE :[
Oh fancy. I've only used the spray cold water at your ass ones.
Count yourself lucky. All I have are these 3 seashells.
Twelve 🙄
Do you scoop front to back or back to front?
Count yourself lucky. All I have are these 3 seashells 🐚 🐚 🐚.
Consider that for Arabs the old school way would be using their left hand and sand (well, in more humid areas - water). Which is the reason you should be careful with your left hand while interacting with a person of that culture.
I think I like some paper between hand and ... more, than sand, ya knaw.
Paper is definitely an upgrade over something that is coarse and gritty and gets everywhere...
And also separates your hand from the substance you are removing, not joins it. (Sorry, I just couldn't)
Only relevant if you talk to a Bedouin living in the desert. Otherwise bidet culture is pretty big in MENA.
I went to India (New Delhi, Goa, Chennai, Jaipur) as a middle class Canadian.
People hanging off the side of busses, monkeys running around everywhere, open sewage, cows eating garbage on the side of the road, literally everyone staring at me, tons of people following me trying to give me directions to tourist sites, different views on personal space.
Shit was wild.
I was in an airport argument with a British person. I was amazed to learn not only do they like to argue but they like being calm and reasonable about it. I think inviting and arguing with strangers is something they do to pass the time.
TIL I’m British
I should spend more time in places I can meet British people then.
Where I live many people think that arguing with them means that I want to insult or dominate them.
I recommend getting into it with a hot take on Harry Potter or English football. You can keep it going for hours.
The sheer avalanche of religious bullshit in the Finnish Military.
Can you explain?
Basically:
Have mental issues? Here, would you like to talk to a field-pastor? What? Whats a "therapist"?
Alright, time for a lecture on "justifications of violence in self-defense, blabla god blabla christ". Wheres the secular moral discussion?
The main audiorium building of the brigade was straight up a church, covered in christian paraphernalia.
There are several military positions that are straight up just copied over from church hierarchy. My direct superior during initial boot camp was a freaking military deacon.
it was the christian way or the highway, and it fucking sucked. I am atheist and there was ZERO consideration for anyone who wasn't christian. You'd think they'd get with the times, but this particular stuff is alive and well in that particular institution. I did not see it coming.
This was very interesting to read about, thank you. In the United States, we all consider Finland to be extremely progressive, and ahead of us in many ways. So this was odd to hear. Even my American friends who have been in the military have told me about visiting real therapists while on base.
I don't know many military details (as a woman i didn't have to go there) but i know my brother talked to a psychologist there many times and they helped him (we're in finland)
I mean, the Finnish military should have inherited some things from the Russian imperial military, so this is to be expected. And it was a nationalist and traditionalist force which fought against Bolsheviks and won, getting itself a country (this kinda gets forgotten since the public image of Finland is very progressive and almost leftist now). And military is the most conservative institution in any country usually. Still weird.
Not me, but the first time my boyfriend traveled with my family somewhere, he could not believe that sitting quietly in a living room reading was a thing. My family didn't feel the need to fill our day to the brim with tours or shopping or other activities. And that was shocking to him.
That's shocking to me too. Why travel if you aren't going to make the most of being in a different place?
So you don't burn yourself out.
A lot of people end up miserable on vacations because they don't give themselves time to relax and enjoy it.
if you aren’t going to make the most of being in a different place?
They were though...
You're totally right! To be fair, we do go out. It's just that people can choose what to do. There's no scolding or pulling if you choose to stay in.
Also, we don't really do big expensive holidays, and I think that contributes to people feeling okay staying in. The few times we have done big trips, the story is different. But my boyfriend only knows the smaller trips.
I'm getting flashbacks to our family skiing vacations...
Parents: Kempeth, come spend time with the family.
Me: alright, we doing something? playing a game? watching tv?
Everyone: *opens a book and sits quietly in a corner*
Me: *goes to do something else*
Repeat from the top
Oh man, this is relatable.
If I'm visiting my parents, my mom insists on "visiting" -- that is, either sitting and talking endlessly, playing boardgames, watching a movie together, or going out to do something. She has complained about us being unsociable for sitting and reading for an hour or two after spending the whole day doing things she wants.
My in-laws, on the other hand... don't. There is absolutely no pressure to do anything. They are just happy to have us there, regardless of what we choose to do (or not do). Speaking from 13 years of experience with them: it's awesome.
I graduated from high school in 1995. The community I grew up in was incredibly diverse. It was a decent sized city (100k+) and we had about 3,000 students the year I graduated.
That summer, we went to rural Idaho for a family reunion. It was probably the first time in my life that I visited a place that was exclusively white. I’m a white dude myself, but like I said, grew up in a diverse community.
The lack of diversity was a giant culture shock to me. I was in a small community with a population that was about half the size of the school I had just graduated from.
Wow, I have exactly the same experience but from somewhere totally different. I grew up outside London in the UK and then had to move to the Czech Republic (essentially Eastern Europe) with my parents. Going from a very diverse city to a relatively homogenous one was something I definitely noticed.
Please do not refer to Czechia as Eastern Europe. It' simply wrong: Czechia rejected the Eastern Christianity even before the Great Schism, it never was a part of the Russian Empire and it spent most of the last millennium as a part of the HRE. The only connection - being part of the former Eastern block was so long ago that in only 4 years Czechia will be a EU member longer than it was occupied by the USSR.
Czechia has a racism problem sure, but that map has no data on actual Eastern European countries so there is no comparison possible.
Also you can't reduce the question of being Eastern European on one metric. Was Belgium under Leopold II. Eastern European? Nazi Germany? USA before 1863?
Ok sorry sorry I was just trying to make it easier for an American to imagine. I know it's practically the definition of Central Europe but EE served well for what I was trying to describe.
Sounds like my hometown 😔
How big "anti-imperialism" is as an ideology in countries ravaged by America and the former Soviet-bloc.
I'm of Iraqi descent and whenever I visit home I see people supporting extreme ideologies like Islamism or Stalinism or some unholy mix between the two, which is always nuts for me. They are super-political, but they never vote, because that means the "imperialist system wins". They use anti-imperialism as a justification for anti-LGBT, anti-feminist, anti-democratic, anti-religious and anti-secularist hate.
Otherwise the people are very nice, but if any major political/cultural topic is being mentioned, they go full doomer mode.
I get why anti-imperialism is so big in Iraq, but actually experiencing it, is really crazy.
I grew up in Liberia in the 80s and had to leave due to the civil war. (Remember General Butt-Naked? Yeah, that war in that country) It was a crazy time, not one big shock but a string of many smaller things. For example, I would look out the school window and see a horde of students wielding machetes overrunning the school grounds - I can't remember what they were protesting.
But coming back to Europe the biggest culture shocks were functioning waste disposal and utilities, and how clean everything was.
Also it was hard for me to relate to people's problems, because they seemed so trivial. Took me a while to adjust.
Yes! Being unable to relate to people's problems due to triviality was also something that I faced as someone who moved from a third world to a first world country.
Yayy! You understand me! I thought my comment appeared a bit asshole-ish and was almost thinking of editing it.
In Liberia I perceived a different culture of complaining. You'll get an earful of excuses. Much palaver and lamentation. But in the end, we'll work something out. We might be mad now, we might laugh the issue off, but tomorrow we drink together. Or maybe not. No biggie.
Went to Ireland for a couple weeks. I was expecting a bunch of rowdy angry drunks, and instead was met with warmth and hospitality at every turn, and constant singing/music everywhere.
Truly mind blowing
Some cultures eat with their mouths open and it is considered as a kind of a compliment to the cook, like "hey it's so good, it makes me do this loud noise while I eat it". Quite unpleasant.
Out of curiosity, which cultures do this?
Chinese, might be dependent on the province though.
10 years ago I was visiting friends in Melbourne. They casually proposed going out and hanging out like you would at around 11am on a Saturday. It was 9pm on a Tuesday. Blew my mind that most things were open and operating.
Where I live if you haven’t eaten by 8pm, you better enjoy McDonald’s because it’s the only thing open.
Lmao I experienced the opposite, also in Australia. I'm from HK and travelled to a small town where nothing was open past 4 pm, barring a couple of dinner places.
I found the same thing when I visited brisbane recently. I'm from NZ, and virtually everything is closed at 6 or 9, depending on the day & what kind of establishment it is.
Wait are you saying Brisbane is more open than NZ or the other way around? Because Brisbane is my reference point for the sleepy city. Don’t tell me NZ is worse…
AFAIK NZ has no more 24 hour supermakets. I remember brisbane used to, but a quick google search shows that might not be true anymore?
When I was staying in South Bank, restaurants were regularly open until 9:30/10pm. Finding places like that in christchurch is much harder, outside of thursday/friday/saturday. Auckland might be better, but it's been a while since I've stayed there.
TBH, maybe it's not that brisbane is good for late night stuff, maybe it's just that NZ is even worse.
To my knowledge only 24 hour one is at the airport because it’s federal land not state, and I think there’s a state law against it.
Also Southbank is one of about 3 suburbs that don’t close at 8pm.
It was the opposite for me in Australia, maybe because I was in a smaller town. At least in restaurants, if you got there past 9, chances are the kitchen is closing or about to close. Took me a while to get used to it.
When I first came to US, I was very shocked by how talkative Americans are, especially to strangers. Ngl, I was a bit annoyed at first. Then I realized that's just the way they are.
I'm an American who finds this trait very annoying. People do not know when to shut up, and they tell you the most personal things!
yep, and I am too timid to ever end the conversation
so now I have to hear Larry's entire life story, or about how Wanda's cousin has bowel cancer
I spent a few years in the US, coming from Scandinavia. It took several months before I was able to navigate the whole "strike up a conversation with anyone"-thing. The issue wasn't so much being "forced" into conversations (which I got used to fairly quickly) as it was knowing when these interactions were considered over by the other party. I'd often, unintentionally, overstay my welcome. The general vibe and attitude were also quite different.
The biggest shock was however moving back home. I'm originally from one of the larger cities in my home country, but ended up in a tiny village through a series of coincidences. Going from a multi-million US city to a tiny Scandinavian mountain village was rough. Went from a place filled with outgoing people to a place where the cashier in the local store still took me for a tourist after having lived there for a year. An almost impenetrable society. I've been here for a decade now, and have long since realized that I will always be "that guy from XYZ". On the plus side, it's nice not having to deal with people beyond my own family an coworkers. On the negative side I have almost no sense of belonging here outside of my wife's family who are all local.
You need to join a club or take a class. That is the Norwegian way of breaking the silence. Instant connection.
Same here in Switzerland. After university I moved to my new job and for a good while I basically had no friends here. The vast majority of the people I hang out with are either family, are from a club I joined, from the club I started or came "attached" to someone from those categories.
People from other countries are also much easier to get to know. After that it's Norwegians who have experience abroad. But clubs and classes definitely work.
Clubs are a good place to meet people for sure. :)
That whole local vs not is kind of crazy though. I know of a guy who's been here for 40 years, huge part of the local community, everyone knows him - and everyone still referes to him as "the guy from the north". I find it equal parts hilarious/sad-ish. I dread to think what it would feel like to be a foreigner here, and not just some guy who moved in from a city a few hours down the road. I get it though on some level, historically it's been a very isolated community, and even now getting here (or getting away) can be difficult, practically speaking, in the winter months.
Oof. I feel this one. I spent most of my childhood in - what we consider - a small city (10k people). My school class was like 20 kids with a few different ethnic backgrounds. Then we moved to a mountain town where the elevation (in meters) was a multiple of the population count, my class (including the neighboring villages) was 4 and there was exactly one family who didn't look like they were at least 20 generations Swiss.
My dad is a very outgoing person, passionate volunteer firemen (most towns here have their fire department on a volunteer basis), contributed to the town council, was pretty religious (BIG up there, when there was a mass during the day then all the classes from school attended) - but they literally were just happy to take his work but not give anything back. The protestant priest from the neighboring village checked in on our family (protestant) and him (catholic) more often than our "our" priest. My mom befriended another "immigrant" family who had been there for 10-20 years and basically had NO connections in town. My father made 1 good friend and 1 good acquaintance at work.
For us kids it was a lot easier. The other kids were welcoming and friendly and even the adults were somewhat accomodating to us. But I was approaching adulthood and started to experience this myself. Town tradition was that for christmas the oldest kids in primary school would dress up as the 3 magi and lead the younger ones around town to sing christmas songs. And they would also participate in the christmas mass. They were in a pickle that year as from a class of 4, half were protestant heathens. I was still expected to stand in the front of the church as ornament but when the edible paper was distributed I was rudely shoved away.
I immigrated to Vietnam. That was ok.
Visiting north America again years later was quite a shock!
Going home after living abroad was a way bigger shock to me than living abroad was too. You suddenly see your own culture from outside.
I left home for a little over a year, here I am almost a decade later fascinated people here can't see that things can work so much better than they currently do.
Can you explain more about this? What was shocking about it?
Ack, my long response got eaten.
I guess in North America, people I know seem to think that developing countries in Asia are these oppressive, miserable places.
While I do technically live in a slum, it's safer and the residents are happier than any place I've been in Canada. The people here have so much freedom to do the things that matter! The barrier to starting a business is very close to zero, zoning and tax laws are not prohibitive either. You can do whatever you want with your home -- no home owner's association. Raise chickens on your roof, if that's what you want to do. Anything not dangerous is OK -- maybe talk to your neighbors first if it's something unusual.
Going back to North America is something I do for family. It's inconvenient, everything is far apart and empty, it feels dead. The food is less good. People are angry and divided about politics. There's some low-but-everpresent degree of hostility towards people who look like foreigners, and overall it seems people have somewhat strange ideas about Asia. It's not terrible, and there are many good things there too (it is clean and many forests!), but I feel woefully out of place.
Interacting with people from North America who visit Vietnam has always been the biggest cultural shock though. Often, they outright ask me how to commit crimes (I maintain a presence online to answer questions for confused tourists -- Vietnam is not that accessible sometimes). Work permit compliance is low, also many fake university degrees and fake passports. Lots of people running MLM and crypto scams. Many drive without any valid license, and if they hit someone they flee back home. I met many selling drugs illegally (I wasn't looking for them, either). It used to be shockingly bad. On the bright side, it drove me to integrate culturally and pay careful attention to my immigration paperwork.
So I guess I consider myself culturally Asian now, which I suppose is a reasonable outcome after 10 years. The language is still hard for me though, I still speak like a child -- running a business doesn't leave so much time to study human languages.
Nowadays, we're getting more qualified professionals and tourists that are decent people, so things are generally way better than they were 5 or 6 years ago. Overall the things I've seen make me ashamed though. I don't think any amount of progress can really wash that feeling away. I try to assist tourists online as a way to prevent myself from turning that shame into prejudice.
If you can afford it, I found that the Pimsleur technique taught me how to speak well better than anything else I tried. I've forgotten the Spanish I know because I didn't keep using it, but it got me to a decent adult conversational level in about a month at half an hour a day and I was always speaking 'adult' sentences right from the start, both copying then making new ones.
It's more a problem of economics. I've optimized my life to accomplish a single goal. There is no room for anything else. Time is the most expensive thing right now.
I had zero dollars and a company license 6 or 7 years ago, so my focus has been bootstrapping myself into land+home ownership, which is very expensive here. A home in Vietnam is much more expensive than what you'd expect considering the cost of everything else.
So I've spent 100% of my time studying whatever I think will make me the most money. This has typically been technology and programming languages, with some brief forays into economics, finance, law, and accounting. I studied the Vietnamese enough to deal with daily life only. I can't really socialize in Vietnamese very well, but then again, I don't have a social life in any language.
It's intense, but going well. If I continue at this rate, I'll be able to retire after a career of about 10 years (so a couple more years). Then I can learn Vietnamese. Maybe I'll learn to paint too, or run a machine shop, or help students build their careers!
Very good luck with all of that!
They only use darn cash in Germany. Feels like going back to ancient times.
i prefer cash, gives you anonimity and an easier overwiev of your spending
You can almost always also pay with card, but it's often only Girocard, not Visa or Mastercard. The fees of Girocards/Giropay are much lower, because it's run by the banks themselves, i.e. the companies most likely already have accounts at those banks, so they can subsidise the transaction fees with the banking fees the companies already have to pay anyway. Larger stores often accept credit cards, however.
paper money is aight, but coins are super annoying
Not true in cities, i havent had cash on me for at least two weeks now and Ive gotten by just fine
Growing up homeschooled in a cult in the American South, escaping, and then moving to Brooklyn. Kind of a roundhouse-kick to the id, ego, and outlook on literally everything
When I started using the internet, it was a shock, because I got in contact with people from different places and realized how poor I am :(
Even today, I get cultural shocks here and there. Just this week, someone mentioned what they consider the bare minimum specs for a phone they consider to be viable for simple usage, and guess what? My phone doesn't have half of these specs.
Had a functional iphone 5 I wanted to give away to someone, for use as a child phone or temporary replacement for a broken phone. Went to my local buy-nothing group, found several people asking for a free iphone to replace a broken or missing phone, every one of them saying "any old phone is fine, 12 or above". I'm still using iphone 8...
German living in Canada since 2018. Couple of things:
There's no bread culture. It's all toast, with the exception of French breads. But I saw brown colored toast sold as pumpernickel. A travesty.
The love for bland food. I know, there was a demonization campaign against salt in the 80s or something. But you gotta get over it. Feels like you're saving salt from the cooking to put it on the road in the winter.
The healthcare system is a joke. "bUt It'S bEtTeR tHaN iN tHe Us." As if that's difficult. Only difference is your dumpster isn't on fire, yet.
THE ABSOLUTE TRASH THAT'S SOLD AS TOILET PAPER! Honestly my biggest pet peeve. TP here is flimsy and overpriced. >1$ for a roll of 2-ply or >2$ per roll of 3-ply, but both tear if you do much as look at them the wrong way.
Look into bidets. There's cheap seat addons you can buy but there are also portable bottle-like ones. I've got one of these: https://happypo.com/products/xl-bidet
Bread: you are right. It's universally terrible. In larger cities there are European bakeries that are better.
Bland food: Yep. It's a mix of the worst of American northwestern food with bland British food. It's getting better though, especially in BC.
No comment on health care.
Toilet paper is this way in Canada due to so many people living with septic tanks or lagoons, I believe.
The first time I ever left the country was to go live in Indonesia for a bit. They were soo many things, and it started the instant I got there. At the airport, I remember seeing a huge sign that said "Welcome to Indonesia! Death penalty for drug traffickers!". Also, the traffic was so wild in the taxi ride from the airport to my apartment. All the cars, horse carriages, 10 times as many mopeds/motorcycles as cars, bajais (tuk tuks), all weaving so chaotically I had to close my eyes.
Having a maid/cook, people who did our laundry, and finding out how common that was.
Having to bribe a cop for being out late at night with a guy (I'm a woman), but only having to give him the equivalent of like $5USD.
Everyone staring at me ALWAYS. Random people asking to take photos with me all the time 😆.
Haggling at basically every store/market except the fancier/chain ones.
Squat toilets. Also seeing shoe prints on standard toilets and signs telling people not to squat on those toilets.
Armed guards and metal detectors at most malls and hotels. Every time we'd come home our car would have to go through an armed security checkpoint and they'd check inside the car and open the trunk etc.
Visited Guatemala and while driving down a rural road saw a kid around 8 years old riding a horse wielding a machete. Also saw the military with AK’s patrolling the mall.
Definitely my trip to Qatar.
Once I was standing in a public place, there was a performance on a temporary stage. I was approached by the local law enforcement, I couldn't be there. Left side of the stage was for families only, right side was for everyone. Restaurants sometimes also had 2 doors, as if they were different restaurants. Left was for families, right was for everyone else.
Male friends holding hands and kissing in the face, as a gesture of friendship. Not that holding hands is weird, just found it odd on a country that stones gay people. Public affections between male and female was very rare.
All women wore hijab, others wore an additional piece of cloth that covered her entire head. It was very awkward to see them driving cars in this attire.
Then there was Ramadan. That made life a while lot harder.
I’m American. Moving to Hong Kong for 3 years was a huge culture shock and a huge middle finger to “American exceptionalism”.
But moving back AFTER the worse of the pandemic??? Holy shit. A massive shock - there was a sort of post-apocalyptic exhausted survivors vibe to everyone and everything.
It was truly culture shocking to see.
thank you for validating what it’s been like since the pandemic
I work with a lot of people from HK. It seems tough over there.
On one hand, we receive a lot of work from HK companies looking to move jobs elsewhere. It's one of the things making the economy a bit less bad than elsewhere presently.
On the other hand, I really wish you all the best and hope things improve.
I've enjoyed it but I got to quarantine and still am able to do so wfh and delivery yay!
Moving from a rural 10,000 population town, to a multi-million population major city.
I'm a NZer living in Australia, some people didn't understand me saying "a wee bit *", like "it's a wee bit annoying".
I'm not very well traveled.
That's odd, we use "a wee bit *" in the USA too, not a terribly common colloquialism but still used. On second thought, maybe not lol. I do read a lot, perhaps I picked up my familiarity with the phrase from books.
What about "a teensie bit"?
Saying that would probably net you a hiding
A what now?
Jokingly suggesting you'd get beaten up
really? You in the city? wee bit' used sometimes in rural areas
When I lived in Italy it always caught me off guard how every business closed up shop after 18:00, the city looked dead past these hours. I'm used to shops and markets being open 24/7, and it was a vast contrast. But I liked it in the long run, people should have their off hours.
Interesting, but if all the shops close when everyone gets off work, when do people get a chance to actually visit the shops when they are free before they close?
You usually get about an hour to do your shopping, plus big supermarkets like Esselunga would still be open, you just had to make the trip. I guess there's always a lunch break, a pizza place next to a place I used to live in only opened from 14:00 to 17:00, and there would always be a long line (because they had very good pizza)
It's especially noticable in cities where the storefronts close with rolling metal doors, and the windows close over with shutters. It is very apparent that the city is "closed."
Of course these doors and shutters have very practical purposes. Just that if they're not common in your home country, it can be jarring.
Visited canada a few days ago.
I thought that the people would be super nice, in my experience they don't.
People working in tourism are super friendly but we felt that the people are super harsh with tourists.
We even had a group of kids saying out loud "I don't like people with big backpacks" (And no my backpack was not touching them or on a seat) or a security officer saying that he does not work on the information department so he was not helping us.
I have family there and I got to meet some incredible people but I felt that they were super hash sometimes.
Also Canada is beautiful!
Canada is very big. Come to the east coast! Not that we don't have assholes.
Where in Canada did you visit?
Banff -> Montereal -> Toronto
Actually experiencing racism in Japan.
If you're a white dude in a white country, you don't have any idea what it's like. My incident was super minor (being denied access to a restaurant) but it gave me a teeny peek into what life must be like for some people.
It was the first time that I've experience this kind of comments.
I'm a tallish white male and I was confused as Canadian sometimes during this trip
Just got back from Canada and I had the same experience. The workers were really friendly, but everyone else was kind of assholes. Felt like I was back in LA with everyone having their head up their own asses. Shocked me cause I always hear how friendly Canadians are.
And the food is super bland, but the country is gorgeous and the weather was great
The size of grocery stores in the US, coming from Hong Kong.
Also, the massive lack of good public transit, urban walkability, and just cars cars cars everywhere.
The things you point our are lacking are the reason the grocery stores are so big. When you go to the store it's not just a small thing you do on your way to do something else, because when you're in a car nothing is easy. Parking and walking into the store can take a few minutes, so stopping after work every day gets annoying fast because what could have been a 5 minute stop on fklt inevitably turns into a 15-20 minute stop.
So, you make going to the store a once or twice a week thing, and you buy EVERYTHING you think you'll want or need in that week when you go to handle that the store needs more in stock.
Becoming a civilian again after being in the military was interesting. Simple things felt weird all the time; I kept feeling like I had to show my ID to buy groceries, stuff like that. But probably moving to the East Coast (NoVA) from Colorado in 2002 was the biggest. I was in absolute shock at the price of housing, hours of commuting every day, and most of all, how horrible the people were. Mean, rude people, angry all the time and intentionally threatening on the roads. Being there made me cry a lot in the first year.
Up until recently (quit due to long-covid and being over-worked), I was a caseworker for adults with severe mental illness who lived in residential care facilities (RCFs). The RCFs are not 'old folks homes' but they would generally have some older residents. Average age was about 40-50s. I was a 3rd party and not associated with the various RCFs themselves, but rather an outside agency. I was also a mandated reporter, which put me at odds with the shady operated RCFs.
These RCFs in my region could best best be imagined as a 'retirement community'/ALF, but the people they would house would range from 18 to any age older. There would be people who were housed for mental illness, developmental disability, substance use disorder, and a lot of revolving door DOC (Department of Corrections) folks. Almost like assisted living meets half-way house, and the next step up is a level II locked facility.
Starting out, it was like walking into a whole other world. Walking thru privately (and often poorly..) operated RCFs was like stepping into another country and having culture shock. It's quite a different world when things like being screamed at, barked at, threatened, witnessing manic and psychotic episodes and aggression/fighting/violence erupting spontaneously become routine and feel mundane.
At any given time, I could have on my caseload 50+ year old adults who have the cognitive abilities and personality of children 8 - 14, and a psychopath who did 20+ years for murder. To be honest, the DOC folks were usually my favorite to work with. Their regimented lives and direction from authority figures made them easy to work with, but you've also got to be keen that they're not working you. But they usually had good senses of humor and we'd have fun working together. I was the person on my team given all the clients the other caseworkers were afraid of (my supervisor's words).
Once I was experienced, I remember always being amused by new people (whether my agency or RCF staff, outside nursing/home care, etc.) and witnessing their culture shock. The thing is, it wears off pretty fast. Well, that is if you're one of the type of people who stick around. Those positions have a very high turnover rate. I loved working with the population I did. I hated my eventually exploitative working conditions and collapsing healthcare industry that nearly killed me. I want to continue working in this field, but the healthcare industry in the US is such a nightmare right now....
Recycling accessibility and street art displays. I live in a place where it's either plain boring wall or grafitti(am super ok with that, they look cool), it just caught me by surprise when I saw some colorful walls with surreal art in Western Europe. Also how people are much warmer and relaxed.
I lived in China for a year after college, and that was basically fine since I was already pretty knowledgeable about the country and I went into it expecting to be off balance and that there would be a lot of new things. What was a surprise was the culture shock when I came back to the US. I don't think that the jet lag helped, but I remember feeling really really out of sorts for about a week and just generally in a bit of shock about how different life was here having largely not been exposed to it for a year.
Interesting how it went the other way.
What stood out in particular?
A few things, how empty and clean it was in comparison (I lived in a city at the time, which could show you how dense Beijing is, like everywhere you go is the most crowded place you have ever been). I also remember waking up from jet lag and my brother was watching that puppet comedy guy on tv and thinking what the fuck is going on here. I was pretty unplugged while I was over there (fall of 2004) so I essentially missed that whole election cycle which was honestly really nice, it sucked that Bush got reelected, but it was good to not be steeped in it while it happened. Since I had a very rudimentary grasp of mandarin at the time I wasn't really engaging which Chinese pop culture either so I was basically just hanging out and talking to people which was really nice. Chinese social interactions are a lot more structured as well, which I found very refreshing at the time, I didn't have enough of a grasp of the language to be awkward so that was also really fun.
Paper money. Just... What? Why can you just rip up money?
We used to have that, but we moved to a more plastic feel type money like 6 years ago
I live in America, and I would say America. During COVID I was completely shocked on how stupid we were about masks and vaccine guidelines. I am nearly 40 now but at the time I didn't know this country was so stupid.
Returning to the US from living in Estonia for several years as a teen. Nothing made sense at all to me culturally, and in many ways still doesn’t.
South American bidets.
Not the pathetic little add-on ones you sometimes see in Australia, but stand alone bidets with enough water pressure for the water jet to touch the roof of the bathroom! A shot of high power jet of water to the crotch at 3am when I was only half awake is something I will not forget in a hurry!
Probably moving to a big city from a prondomity Mennonite village I grew up in. I am not a Mennonite myself, not religious either, just grew up in that kind of environment. A tiny unfinished suburb surrounded by miles of corn fields and cows.
Highlights include
having to idea how public transit worked I was riding the bus without paying for the first few months because I didn't realize I needed to.
saw my first homeless people, saw women dressed "imodestly", and tall buildings. These are not things that bothered me but certainly things I should have seen prior to my 20s. I had no clue how to interact with people outside my bubble.
having grown up with many siblings and close friends I was hit with a lot of loneliness. Definetly a low point.
I also had none of the skills needed to survive life on my own in a big city. Schools teach budgeting but they didn't teach me to avoid scammers, where to shop, how to get places, housing, access to health services ect.
I'm still learning about 15 years later. Now it's about assertive communication skills, legal knowledge, cultural histories, how to pay respects to indigionous cultures and why its important to do so, im understanding local politics and how to work with it.
Frankly that's my favorite part of all this. I'm (slowly) learning, and feel like I am growing from being a part of the culture and not in a bubble.
Reverse racism in China and to a less extent Japan. Only really exists for white people. Better pay and more attention just for being white but it get old really quick. I’ve actually found that it’s city people who are more annoying about it. When I got to the countryside I find them more kind. With all the things wrong with America, I am thankful for it not being an ethnostate.
That's just called racism.
And from what I hear it's not exclusive to white people. Friends have told me they're racist against black people too.
Well, many Chinese and Japanese plainly consider all non-Asians (and many Asians) savages. Racism is normalized there. Hierarchical centralized clan-based societies and thus certain lack of agility in social ties and traditions.
I mean, they are not much more racist that Middle-Eastern people. Just the Middle-East is (I know this may sound funny) socially more progressive in many places.
It’s it really reverse racism when the majority is shitting on the racial minority?
Is “reverse racism” ever a thing anywhere anyway? Racism is racism.
Honestly, my alarm bells start going off when people use that phrase.
Correct. Racism is racism. That said, it’s usually meant to call out situations where a minority group shitting on a majority group, which is not what is happening here.
This is humanity’s old classic - the majority shitting on the minority.
Same here, I'm hoping it's just ignorance.
I'd call it reverse racism cuz the majority is actually upholding a minority. In china they literally hire Caucasian people to "look good" (whatever that means)
Just like in Russia nobles would hire French and German servants to look good. Like an expensive horse.
Isn't racism just discriminating against people because of their race? I don't majority/minority makes a difference for the definition.
Fair thinking, but I think "reverse racism" gets you understood better but that might be only me
None because I don’t live in America
Your think culture shock only happens to Americans?
This is going to seem minor, but it was a shock to me.
I grew up in Texas. I lived in very metropolitan places -- near downtown Dallas, and near the Houston medical center. So I never thought that I was culturally isolated or anything.
When I finally left the state for a job, I went to Los Angeles, circa 2007. In my first week there, a lady pulled up next to me on the street and asked me where the courthouse was. I had a vague idea, but explained that I was new to the area so my advice should be taken with a grain of salt. People familiar with the LAX area will know that the nearby courthouse is a tall building with something resembling a crown or halo, I pointed her toward that.
It wasn't until a couple of minutes later I realized what seemed strange about the encounter. The lady was of African-American descent.
I thought back on 3 decades of living in Texas, and I cannot once remember being approached by a black stranger and asked a question. Not one single time. Houston has a large homeless population, I had many encounters with panhandlers. I couldn't remember one single black person.
In fact, as I thought about it, a HUGE difference between Texas and California was that black folks on the street behaved very differently. In California, they looked you in the eye, they said "hello", etc. In Texas -- at least, up until I left in 2007 -- black folks were strictly "heads down, eyes on your own business". Even thinking back on some black friends and co-workers, I realized that they behaved very differently in public than my white friends did.
The whole thing made me sad for my black friends back in Texas. And now that we know how police treat black folks, I guess I can see why they behaved the way they did.
This was not the kind of answer I was expecting. Thank you for sharing.
I moved from California to Texas, and that has not been my experience at all since getting here. Perhaps it's the city I live in, but black people here seem no different than any other person, same as my experience when I lived in California. The percentage of the population that is black here is much, much higher, though.
I've lived in Houston my whole life and I have no idea what this guy is talking about. It's one of the most diverse cities in the country of course we talk to each other lol.
Same here in Houston. I have no clue what this person is talking about. I have had many black people talk to me, and I work with quite a few. There's nothing odd about our encounters.
I must admit that I eventually got used to it and even started enjoying this attitude, which I also took part in, but I was quite amazed by the Finns.
For work reasons, I had to spend three months in Espoo and the interaction with my colleagues was strangely cold in social interactions. Examples:
I ended up enjoying this way of social interaction. It seems to me that one uses less energy in social situations. There's less stress about having to make conversation or engage in small talks.
Love you Finland.
Right ... TIL I'm finnish and must have been adopted ... cool!
As an American I don't want to interact with my coworkers. As an Italian I don't want to either. I am so happy wfh right now. Socializing with people who aren't my friends is not something I enjoy.
@Ataraxia @darkl1nk My boss tries to socialize and game with me on my time off, but I mostly avoid this at all costs because it keeps me in a workplace state of mind and it feels like I can't escape my job
Even if it was possible to feel at ease and not in a work mindset while hanging with them, it's just wise not to get that close, it makes it harder in future to be selective in what you divulge about your private life which can give your boss leverage over you. Sometimes you may need a "sick" day and it's just better if they don't know enough personal information to be able to determine how sick you are and make everything awkward.
That might seem dishonest, but there's reasons why you might need to the employer to know only what they need to know and they aren't necessarily laziness or incompetence. It's a shame because it's nice that your boss wanted to be friends but unfortunately there's always going to be that fact that they're your boss which gets in the way of that and everyone is better off keeping things arm's length
This makes me want to go to Finland for a visit. The lack of small talk seems very efficient.
Maybe they wanted to conserve calories during colder climates. I wonder if other cold climates have less small talk in social settings.
"Shut up! I'm trying to stay warm here." - Some ancient Finn
I've heard it's fairly expensive place to visit though 😅
Going to sound weird but going to one of my childhood friend's house
He had a loving family where everyone was happy and helped each other. They communicated with each other happily about things that interested them. They were unafraid to share what was on their minds and what they were passionate about. They asked each other to do things without threatening or screaming. When they did have disagreements they talked them out. They'd say, "I love you," without a hint of pain or irony.
It was jarring. It threw me off. I went over to his place a lot (like literally almost every day for the time were friends) and it wasn't until I had been going to his place for a few weeks did it dawn on me that I had never seen his parents argue.
And honestly one of the most eye opening experiences from when I was young about how a family is supposed to function.
I guess you could say it was culture shock because my relatives operated on a culture of fear, hatred, and a lack of love. The phrase, "You have to love me, I'm family," was uttered entirely too many times. Violence and the threat of violence was the only motivator my relatives used.
I was friends with that guy for 3 years. I'll never forget his parents telling me that they saw me as family. I'd say those years did more good for shaping who I am today than all the years I spent with my relatives. I look back fondly on the time I spent with them. I wish it didn't end the way it did though.
I hope they're all doing well.
Sounds pretty similar to how my gf responded to my family. We don't always realize how lucky (or unlucky) we are.
I didn't realize how lucky I was to have my immediate family, my mother's extended family, and my husband's family. We get along well and can talk openly even about contentious or difficult issues. My mother and her sisters have showed an excellent way to structure a family, where each has specialized on certain areas: finance, technology, organization, etc. They all have a deep trust built up over a lifetime that they will work in the best interest of each family member.
As I got older, I started hearing people's experiences with terrible family situations, chiefly online. I also started to hear and see more of my dad's side of the family. Two individuals on that side have bipolar disorder. My grandmother's bipolar disorder destroyed her marriage to my grandfather and led to a messy divorce. The treatment that was given in those days likely did more harm than good. Then my uncle also has bipolar. His bipolar destroyed a marriage. Unfortunately, Switzerland where he moved to has old fashioned laws that allows one spouse (my uncle in this case) to drag their feet on a divorce.
There is also some distrust between other family members involving my grandfather's second wife splitting him from contact with his beloved sister and her family. Of the family I listed in the first paragraph, I simply cannot imagine any of them doing something that horrible. I would consider that intolerable in my own marriage, not that my husband would think to do so (he was friends with my husband in high school).
What happened? Sounds like you guys stopped being friends after 3 years.
Little kids taking a shit literally wherever in China. They have special pants (NSFW?) so they can just crouch down and take to take a dump in a shopping mall, the street, the subway ...
This was more common back in 1980s and before, when it wasn't urbanised enough to have public bathrooms. Nowadays of you do that, passerby will give you white eyes.
I live in China. It still happens today and nobody bats an eye. I've seen a kid shit on a hospital floor 2 weeks ago, and some old guy pissing against a wall of a shopping mall just yesterday. And this is in a Tier 1 city.
Regional differences? It is, after all, a very big country.
What the fuck…
The same thing I thought when I saw it. Not sure yet how things work here, but if there’s a wtf here this should go there.
You'll literally shit your pants when you learn about the indians, jej
Same for me. It was particularly vexing seeing a child pee into a plant outside an open shopping mall in the center of Shanghai. The restrooms are free, why not just take your kid inside??? The other thing that got me was people refusing to let you off the subway first before they make a mad dash looking for seats. The same happens on the elevators, but there aren't seats so that one is even more confusing.
That's a society which had lots of hierarchy and very little social or even territorial mobility until very recently. And those people's ancestors were likely peasants who'd just live all their lives growing crops in very scary conditions.
I mean, I've heard these things about China and manners.
I've event heard maybe not so scary, but similar things about Russia and manners in the early XX century (since I live in Russia, I do believe they are correct).
I certainly agree with the possible cause. The part I can't figure out is the lack of logic in the actions. Why try to push into the people attempting to get off the elevator when one could just wait a few seconds and get on in a more efficient manner? It all seems to increase the time it takes.
I've been told that many generations grew up in conditions where they had to fight and struggle for everything. If they allowed someone else to go first or get something before them, then they would lose out. Only oneself and family, everyone else is one their own. I suppose this overrides the logic I mentioned that is missing in the scenarios. I don't think they're trying to be rude, they've just been taught since birth that if you want or need something (like getting on an elevator), then you do it however you can that ensures success. In the elevator example, if you do wait for people to get off, others might not and could fill up the elevator before you get on, thus leaving you to wait for possibly several more minutes.
Well, analogy is not a sufficient method of argumentation by itself, but I suppose things I'll write would be even more visible in Chinese villages 100 years ago.
In Russia the peasant commune as an institution was created artificially (so all those Russian narodniks glorifying it as something perfect and wonderful untouched by bureaucratic machine coming from the depth of ages were just stupid ; it's one thing one can't argue with Lenin about - they didn't have a bloody idea of what that "people" they considered inherently virtuous was) somewhere around Peter the Great's time. So it's had enough time to mature.
That commune had enormous families living together, with the patriarch (the oldest man still able to work and do things) being basically a despot. It was literally not so rare for him to casually sleep with wives of his sons and nephews, for example (if not daughters and nieces). Nobody could refuse him.
Again, that whole family would live in one bloody place, together. No personal space or individuality at all.
In such an environment, first, you don't act differently (either you'll seem weak or you'll cause envy, both are worse than any gained efficiency justifies), second, your value is so low, that nobody cares if you make it, third, in a despotic system your own attempts at planning usually don't work, so you don't learn to do it, and planning is what's needed for more honest behavior to be advantageous.
So yes, you are right.
I've got to say it was pretty shocking to be fresh off the boat, walking down the street, and some kid just bolts out of a store, drops her pants and starts pissing next to a tree.
Between this and gutter oil (Google it, or actually maybe don't), it sure doesn't leave me with a great impression of China and hygiene.
I actually saw them doing that once near where I lived. Thankfully I never ate there.
you're hella brave saying that on lemmy.ml
Lol at least he isn't tainted by the political drama yet.
sounds like china
How prevalent alcohol culture is in the West. I'm Southeast Asian and it's more common for us to drink sugary drinks and have food at the local corner restaurant at night instead of having alcohol when we spend time with friends.
When I studied in the West, it really struck me how the only place you really could hang out at night was the bar, and alcohol was often the preferred drink. And they normally closed at 12am, so you can't even stay out that late.
Personally I'm not very fond of inebriation just due to the issues it creates (not that my friends were alcoholics and got blackout drunk every time we hung out), so I found it kind of bad that it's so socially accepted to see a need to get drunk in order to tolerate socialising with friends.
I'm not much of a drinker myself but. Some people use alcohol because it makes them "open up" and it's easier for them to have fun that way. (this is what the finnish song "cha cha cha" is about.)
The Finnish song Cha Cha Cha is awesome. It should have won Eurovision!
Australian here, we have the same culture but it doesn't finish at 12am, I found the Cinderella rule in the USA weird.
Here in NYC last call is 4am. Whenever I travel I always find it really weird that most places in the US close so early.
as someone from Berlin, it's wild that you even have a "last call" rule in so many places/countries. Bars and clubs here can just decide themselves, when they want to close. There are even a few 24/7 places.
Plenty of people in the West find the alcohol culture frustrating, especially recovering alcoholics. Personally I can't drink much, so I tend to find myself sipping on a cranberry juice.
Well, I personally get drunk quicker due to metabolism and my hangover starts the same day.
That is, compared to most Europeans, but I've heard that for SE Asia this would actually be the norm.
So one can say in this case culture just follows structural difference.
But - yes, it's much nicer to be with friends when they are not drunk.
Except for beer, there are weaker sorts, and the effect of hops on people I actually like.
Believe it or not it was a trip to Memphis for training from Canada. I am not well travelled by any means. I made it into Memphis and after a short ride, arrived at my hotel. The people who worked there were some of the most lovely people I have ever met. Southern hospitality was in their soul. I even got to sit down one afternoon with some other guests and hotel staff to discuss differences in politics, healthcare and so on. It blew my mind when people were telling me the expense of just having a baby delivered at their local hospital. I could not wrap my mind around not wanting socialized healthcare. It was the first evening in the hotel, I decided to turn on the local news for Memphis. This was the first real culture shock. The violence. Shootings, stabbings, robberies. I honestly went from feeling like this place is amazing, to this place scares the sh!t out of me. I could not understand why in a place where I had met such beautiful and lovely individuals had to live in a place that was so violent. So after my training week had finished up I decided to head to Beal street and walk around the downtown core a bit. Beal was very much what I had imagined. Kind of felt like a tourist trap. Anyhow I ventured off the beaten path and headed into the town to do some shopping around. I had left a local record shop and heard the ranting of some biker coming out of a building. He was yelling the most racist things if I have ever heard. I was floored. Most of the racists I have encountered where I live are old asshats who keep it secret. But this man out in the street let his hatred fly.
Memphis was this weird crossover world where I was treated like gold and at the same time had to feel afraid for my safety. It still blows my mind the racism and bigotry people still face. It has stuck with me for years.
Listen to this podcast
Frame Canada: Wendell Potter spent decades scaring Americans. About Canada. He worked for the health insurance industry, and he knew that if Americans understood Canadian-style health care, they might.... like it. So he helped deploy an industry playbook for protecting the health insurance agency. https://www.npr.org/2020/10/19/925354134/frame-canada
What a travesty.
You can say shit on the internet
No you need to say sh.it
Pre pee poo poo
That's my home. <3
Absolutely beautiful people. I wish the love and care I felt was how everyone treated one another there.
To be fair, the media absolutely plays up the violence about 1000x because it gets the most views / clicks. Don’t get me wrong, there is a ton of violence, and it’s absolutely a problem in the US, but the news has it pumped up to 11.
Can't imagine forcing people to give birth and then charging them for it.
There's over 300 million people. take care of each other
When my Muslim coworker told me that they didn’t use toilet paper and found it disgusting.
I later got a bidet and have never looked back.
Here we are, back to pooping again
the internet is for
They just air dry? I'd still use a little after.
The bidet has a hot air dryer. Truly living in the future.
butt air dryers, like hand air dryers, are good in theory but horrible in practice. they blow toilet air around and blast infectious particles EVERYWHERE :[
Oh fancy. I've only used the spray cold water at your ass ones.
Count yourself lucky. All I have are these 3 seashells.
Twelve 🙄
Do you scoop front to back or back to front?
Count yourself lucky. All I have are these 3 seashells 🐚 🐚 🐚.
I count nine.
Consider that for Arabs the old school way would be using their left hand and sand (well, in more humid areas - water). Which is the reason you should be careful with your left hand while interacting with a person of that culture.
I think I like some paper between hand and ... more, than sand, ya knaw.
Paper is definitely an upgrade over something that is coarse and gritty and gets everywhere...
And also separates your hand from the substance you are removing, not joins it. (Sorry, I just couldn't)
Only relevant if you talk to a Bedouin living in the desert. Otherwise bidet culture is pretty big in MENA.
I went to India (New Delhi, Goa, Chennai, Jaipur) as a middle class Canadian.
People hanging off the side of busses, monkeys running around everywhere, open sewage, cows eating garbage on the side of the road, literally everyone staring at me, tons of people following me trying to give me directions to tourist sites, different views on personal space.
Shit was wild.
I was in an airport argument with a British person. I was amazed to learn not only do they like to argue but they like being calm and reasonable about it. I think inviting and arguing with strangers is something they do to pass the time.
TIL I’m British
I should spend more time in places I can meet British people then.
Where I live many people think that arguing with them means that I want to insult or dominate them.
I recommend getting into it with a hot take on Harry Potter or English football. You can keep it going for hours.
The sheer avalanche of religious bullshit in the Finnish Military.
Can you explain?
Basically:
Have mental issues? Here, would you like to talk to a field-pastor? What? Whats a "therapist"?
Alright, time for a lecture on "justifications of violence in self-defense, blabla god blabla christ". Wheres the secular moral discussion?
The main audiorium building of the brigade was straight up a church, covered in christian paraphernalia.
There are several military positions that are straight up just copied over from church hierarchy. My direct superior during initial boot camp was a freaking military deacon.
it was the christian way or the highway, and it fucking sucked. I am atheist and there was ZERO consideration for anyone who wasn't christian. You'd think they'd get with the times, but this particular stuff is alive and well in that particular institution. I did not see it coming.
This was very interesting to read about, thank you. In the United States, we all consider Finland to be extremely progressive, and ahead of us in many ways. So this was odd to hear. Even my American friends who have been in the military have told me about visiting real therapists while on base.
I don't know many military details (as a woman i didn't have to go there) but i know my brother talked to a psychologist there many times and they helped him (we're in finland)
I mean, the Finnish military should have inherited some things from the Russian imperial military, so this is to be expected. And it was a nationalist and traditionalist force which fought against Bolsheviks and won, getting itself a country (this kinda gets forgotten since the public image of Finland is very progressive and almost leftist now). And military is the most conservative institution in any country usually. Still weird.
Not me, but the first time my boyfriend traveled with my family somewhere, he could not believe that sitting quietly in a living room reading was a thing. My family didn't feel the need to fill our day to the brim with tours or shopping or other activities. And that was shocking to him.
That's shocking to me too. Why travel if you aren't going to make the most of being in a different place?
So you don't burn yourself out.
A lot of people end up miserable on vacations because they don't give themselves time to relax and enjoy it.
They were though...
You're totally right! To be fair, we do go out. It's just that people can choose what to do. There's no scolding or pulling if you choose to stay in.
Also, we don't really do big expensive holidays, and I think that contributes to people feeling okay staying in. The few times we have done big trips, the story is different. But my boyfriend only knows the smaller trips.
I'm getting flashbacks to our family skiing vacations...
Parents: Kempeth, come spend time with the family.
Me: alright, we doing something? playing a game? watching tv?
Everyone: *opens a book and sits quietly in a corner*
Me: *goes to do something else*
Repeat from the top
Oh man, this is relatable.
If I'm visiting my parents, my mom insists on "visiting" -- that is, either sitting and talking endlessly, playing boardgames, watching a movie together, or going out to do something. She has complained about us being unsociable for sitting and reading for an hour or two after spending the whole day doing things she wants.
My in-laws, on the other hand... don't. There is absolutely no pressure to do anything. They are just happy to have us there, regardless of what we choose to do (or not do). Speaking from 13 years of experience with them: it's awesome.
I graduated from high school in 1995. The community I grew up in was incredibly diverse. It was a decent sized city (100k+) and we had about 3,000 students the year I graduated.
That summer, we went to rural Idaho for a family reunion. It was probably the first time in my life that I visited a place that was exclusively white. I’m a white dude myself, but like I said, grew up in a diverse community.
The lack of diversity was a giant culture shock to me. I was in a small community with a population that was about half the size of the school I had just graduated from.
Wow, I have exactly the same experience but from somewhere totally different. I grew up outside London in the UK and then had to move to the Czech Republic (essentially Eastern Europe) with my parents. Going from a very diverse city to a relatively homogenous one was something I definitely noticed.
Please do not refer to Czechia as Eastern Europe. It' simply wrong: Czechia rejected the Eastern Christianity even before the Great Schism, it never was a part of the Russian Empire and it spent most of the last millennium as a part of the HRE. The only connection - being part of the former Eastern block was so long ago that in only 4 years Czechia will be a EU member longer than it was occupied by the USSR.
Counterpoint: https://youtu.be/zGUY5_OObZI
Czechia has a racism problem sure, but that map has no data on actual Eastern European countries so there is no comparison possible. Also you can't reduce the question of being Eastern European on one metric. Was Belgium under Leopold II. Eastern European? Nazi Germany? USA before 1863?
Ok sorry sorry I was just trying to make it easier for an American to imagine. I know it's practically the definition of Central Europe but EE served well for what I was trying to describe.
Sounds like my hometown 😔
How big "anti-imperialism" is as an ideology in countries ravaged by America and the former Soviet-bloc.
I'm of Iraqi descent and whenever I visit home I see people supporting extreme ideologies like Islamism or Stalinism or some unholy mix between the two, which is always nuts for me. They are super-political, but they never vote, because that means the "imperialist system wins". They use anti-imperialism as a justification for anti-LGBT, anti-feminist, anti-democratic, anti-religious and anti-secularist hate.
Otherwise the people are very nice, but if any major political/cultural topic is being mentioned, they go full doomer mode.
I get why anti-imperialism is so big in Iraq, but actually experiencing it, is really crazy.
I grew up in Liberia in the 80s and had to leave due to the civil war. (Remember General Butt-Naked? Yeah, that war in that country) It was a crazy time, not one big shock but a string of many smaller things. For example, I would look out the school window and see a horde of students wielding machetes overrunning the school grounds - I can't remember what they were protesting.
But coming back to Europe the biggest culture shocks were functioning waste disposal and utilities, and how clean everything was. Also it was hard for me to relate to people's problems, because they seemed so trivial. Took me a while to adjust.
Yes! Being unable to relate to people's problems due to triviality was also something that I faced as someone who moved from a third world to a first world country.
Yayy! You understand me! I thought my comment appeared a bit asshole-ish and was almost thinking of editing it.
In Liberia I perceived a different culture of complaining. You'll get an earful of excuses. Much palaver and lamentation. But in the end, we'll work something out. We might be mad now, we might laugh the issue off, but tomorrow we drink together. Or maybe not. No biggie.
Went to Ireland for a couple weeks. I was expecting a bunch of rowdy angry drunks, and instead was met with warmth and hospitality at every turn, and constant singing/music everywhere.
Truly mind blowing
Some cultures eat with their mouths open and it is considered as a kind of a compliment to the cook, like "hey it's so good, it makes me do this loud noise while I eat it". Quite unpleasant.
Out of curiosity, which cultures do this?
Chinese, might be dependent on the province though.
10 years ago I was visiting friends in Melbourne. They casually proposed going out and hanging out like you would at around 11am on a Saturday. It was 9pm on a Tuesday. Blew my mind that most things were open and operating.
Where I live if you haven’t eaten by 8pm, you better enjoy McDonald’s because it’s the only thing open.
Lmao I experienced the opposite, also in Australia. I'm from HK and travelled to a small town where nothing was open past 4 pm, barring a couple of dinner places.
I found the same thing when I visited brisbane recently. I'm from NZ, and virtually everything is closed at 6 or 9, depending on the day & what kind of establishment it is.
Wait are you saying Brisbane is more open than NZ or the other way around? Because Brisbane is my reference point for the sleepy city. Don’t tell me NZ is worse…
AFAIK NZ has no more 24 hour supermakets. I remember brisbane used to, but a quick google search shows that might not be true anymore?
When I was staying in South Bank, restaurants were regularly open until 9:30/10pm. Finding places like that in christchurch is much harder, outside of thursday/friday/saturday. Auckland might be better, but it's been a while since I've stayed there.
TBH, maybe it's not that brisbane is good for late night stuff, maybe it's just that NZ is even worse.
To my knowledge only 24 hour one is at the airport because it’s federal land not state, and I think there’s a state law against it.
Also Southbank is one of about 3 suburbs that don’t close at 8pm.
It was the opposite for me in Australia, maybe because I was in a smaller town. At least in restaurants, if you got there past 9, chances are the kitchen is closing or about to close. Took me a while to get used to it.
When I first came to US, I was very shocked by how talkative Americans are, especially to strangers. Ngl, I was a bit annoyed at first. Then I realized that's just the way they are.
I'm an American who finds this trait very annoying. People do not know when to shut up, and they tell you the most personal things!
yep, and I am too timid to ever end the conversation
so now I have to hear Larry's entire life story, or about how Wanda's cousin has bowel cancer
I spent a few years in the US, coming from Scandinavia. It took several months before I was able to navigate the whole "strike up a conversation with anyone"-thing. The issue wasn't so much being "forced" into conversations (which I got used to fairly quickly) as it was knowing when these interactions were considered over by the other party. I'd often, unintentionally, overstay my welcome. The general vibe and attitude were also quite different.
The biggest shock was however moving back home. I'm originally from one of the larger cities in my home country, but ended up in a tiny village through a series of coincidences. Going from a multi-million US city to a tiny Scandinavian mountain village was rough. Went from a place filled with outgoing people to a place where the cashier in the local store still took me for a tourist after having lived there for a year. An almost impenetrable society. I've been here for a decade now, and have long since realized that I will always be "that guy from XYZ". On the plus side, it's nice not having to deal with people beyond my own family an coworkers. On the negative side I have almost no sense of belonging here outside of my wife's family who are all local.
You need to join a club or take a class. That is the Norwegian way of breaking the silence. Instant connection.
Same here in Switzerland. After university I moved to my new job and for a good while I basically had no friends here. The vast majority of the people I hang out with are either family, are from a club I joined, from the club I started or came "attached" to someone from those categories.
People from other countries are also much easier to get to know. After that it's Norwegians who have experience abroad. But clubs and classes definitely work.
Clubs are a good place to meet people for sure. :)
That whole local vs not is kind of crazy though. I know of a guy who's been here for 40 years, huge part of the local community, everyone knows him - and everyone still referes to him as "the guy from the north". I find it equal parts hilarious/sad-ish. I dread to think what it would feel like to be a foreigner here, and not just some guy who moved in from a city a few hours down the road. I get it though on some level, historically it's been a very isolated community, and even now getting here (or getting away) can be difficult, practically speaking, in the winter months.
Oof. I feel this one. I spent most of my childhood in - what we consider - a small city (10k people). My school class was like 20 kids with a few different ethnic backgrounds. Then we moved to a mountain town where the elevation (in meters) was a multiple of the population count, my class (including the neighboring villages) was 4 and there was exactly one family who didn't look like they were at least 20 generations Swiss.
My dad is a very outgoing person, passionate volunteer firemen (most towns here have their fire department on a volunteer basis), contributed to the town council, was pretty religious (BIG up there, when there was a mass during the day then all the classes from school attended) - but they literally were just happy to take his work but not give anything back. The protestant priest from the neighboring village checked in on our family (protestant) and him (catholic) more often than our "our" priest. My mom befriended another "immigrant" family who had been there for 10-20 years and basically had NO connections in town. My father made 1 good friend and 1 good acquaintance at work.
For us kids it was a lot easier. The other kids were welcoming and friendly and even the adults were somewhat accomodating to us. But I was approaching adulthood and started to experience this myself. Town tradition was that for christmas the oldest kids in primary school would dress up as the 3 magi and lead the younger ones around town to sing christmas songs. And they would also participate in the christmas mass. They were in a pickle that year as from a class of 4, half were protestant heathens. I was still expected to stand in the front of the church as ornament but when the edible paper was distributed I was rudely shoved away.
I immigrated to Vietnam. That was ok.
Visiting north America again years later was quite a shock!
Going home after living abroad was a way bigger shock to me than living abroad was too. You suddenly see your own culture from outside.
I left home for a little over a year, here I am almost a decade later fascinated people here can't see that things can work so much better than they currently do.
Can you explain more about this? What was shocking about it?
Ack, my long response got eaten.
I guess in North America, people I know seem to think that developing countries in Asia are these oppressive, miserable places.
While I do technically live in a slum, it's safer and the residents are happier than any place I've been in Canada. The people here have so much freedom to do the things that matter! The barrier to starting a business is very close to zero, zoning and tax laws are not prohibitive either. You can do whatever you want with your home -- no home owner's association. Raise chickens on your roof, if that's what you want to do. Anything not dangerous is OK -- maybe talk to your neighbors first if it's something unusual.
Going back to North America is something I do for family. It's inconvenient, everything is far apart and empty, it feels dead. The food is less good. People are angry and divided about politics. There's some low-but-everpresent degree of hostility towards people who look like foreigners, and overall it seems people have somewhat strange ideas about Asia. It's not terrible, and there are many good things there too (it is clean and many forests!), but I feel woefully out of place.
Interacting with people from North America who visit Vietnam has always been the biggest cultural shock though. Often, they outright ask me how to commit crimes (I maintain a presence online to answer questions for confused tourists -- Vietnam is not that accessible sometimes). Work permit compliance is low, also many fake university degrees and fake passports. Lots of people running MLM and crypto scams. Many drive without any valid license, and if they hit someone they flee back home. I met many selling drugs illegally (I wasn't looking for them, either). It used to be shockingly bad. On the bright side, it drove me to integrate culturally and pay careful attention to my immigration paperwork.
So I guess I consider myself culturally Asian now, which I suppose is a reasonable outcome after 10 years. The language is still hard for me though, I still speak like a child -- running a business doesn't leave so much time to study human languages.
Nowadays, we're getting more qualified professionals and tourists that are decent people, so things are generally way better than they were 5 or 6 years ago. Overall the things I've seen make me ashamed though. I don't think any amount of progress can really wash that feeling away. I try to assist tourists online as a way to prevent myself from turning that shame into prejudice.
If you can afford it, I found that the Pimsleur technique taught me how to speak well better than anything else I tried. I've forgotten the Spanish I know because I didn't keep using it, but it got me to a decent adult conversational level in about a month at half an hour a day and I was always speaking 'adult' sentences right from the start, both copying then making new ones.
It's more a problem of economics. I've optimized my life to accomplish a single goal. There is no room for anything else. Time is the most expensive thing right now.
I had zero dollars and a company license 6 or 7 years ago, so my focus has been bootstrapping myself into land+home ownership, which is very expensive here. A home in Vietnam is much more expensive than what you'd expect considering the cost of everything else.
So I've spent 100% of my time studying whatever I think will make me the most money. This has typically been technology and programming languages, with some brief forays into economics, finance, law, and accounting. I studied the Vietnamese enough to deal with daily life only. I can't really socialize in Vietnamese very well, but then again, I don't have a social life in any language.
It's intense, but going well. If I continue at this rate, I'll be able to retire after a career of about 10 years (so a couple more years). Then I can learn Vietnamese. Maybe I'll learn to paint too, or run a machine shop, or help students build their careers!
Very good luck with all of that!
They only use darn cash in Germany. Feels like going back to ancient times.
i prefer cash, gives you anonimity and an easier overwiev of your spending
You can almost always also pay with card, but it's often only Girocard, not Visa or Mastercard. The fees of Girocards/Giropay are much lower, because it's run by the banks themselves, i.e. the companies most likely already have accounts at those banks, so they can subsidise the transaction fees with the banking fees the companies already have to pay anyway. Larger stores often accept credit cards, however.
paper money is aight, but coins are super annoying
Not true in cities, i havent had cash on me for at least two weeks now and Ive gotten by just fine
Growing up homeschooled in a cult in the American South, escaping, and then moving to Brooklyn. Kind of a roundhouse-kick to the id, ego, and outlook on literally everything
When I started using the internet, it was a shock, because I got in contact with people from different places and realized how poor I am :(
Even today, I get cultural shocks here and there. Just this week, someone mentioned what they consider the bare minimum specs for a phone they consider to be viable for simple usage, and guess what? My phone doesn't have half of these specs.
Had a functional iphone 5 I wanted to give away to someone, for use as a child phone or temporary replacement for a broken phone. Went to my local buy-nothing group, found several people asking for a free iphone to replace a broken or missing phone, every one of them saying "any old phone is fine, 12 or above". I'm still using iphone 8...
German living in Canada since 2018. Couple of things:
Look into bidets. There's cheap seat addons you can buy but there are also portable bottle-like ones. I've got one of these: https://happypo.com/products/xl-bidet
Bread: you are right. It's universally terrible. In larger cities there are European bakeries that are better.
Bland food: Yep. It's a mix of the worst of American northwestern food with bland British food. It's getting better though, especially in BC.
No comment on health care.
Toilet paper is this way in Canada due to so many people living with septic tanks or lagoons, I believe.
The first time I ever left the country was to go live in Indonesia for a bit. They were soo many things, and it started the instant I got there. At the airport, I remember seeing a huge sign that said "Welcome to Indonesia! Death penalty for drug traffickers!". Also, the traffic was so wild in the taxi ride from the airport to my apartment. All the cars, horse carriages, 10 times as many mopeds/motorcycles as cars, bajais (tuk tuks), all weaving so chaotically I had to close my eyes.
Having a maid/cook, people who did our laundry, and finding out how common that was.
Having to bribe a cop for being out late at night with a guy (I'm a woman), but only having to give him the equivalent of like $5USD.
Everyone staring at me ALWAYS. Random people asking to take photos with me all the time 😆.
Haggling at basically every store/market except the fancier/chain ones.
Squat toilets. Also seeing shoe prints on standard toilets and signs telling people not to squat on those toilets.
Armed guards and metal detectors at most malls and hotels. Every time we'd come home our car would have to go through an armed security checkpoint and they'd check inside the car and open the trunk etc.
Visited Guatemala and while driving down a rural road saw a kid around 8 years old riding a horse wielding a machete. Also saw the military with AK’s patrolling the mall.
Definitely my trip to Qatar.
Once I was standing in a public place, there was a performance on a temporary stage. I was approached by the local law enforcement, I couldn't be there. Left side of the stage was for families only, right side was for everyone. Restaurants sometimes also had 2 doors, as if they were different restaurants. Left was for families, right was for everyone else.
Male friends holding hands and kissing in the face, as a gesture of friendship. Not that holding hands is weird, just found it odd on a country that stones gay people. Public affections between male and female was very rare.
All women wore hijab, others wore an additional piece of cloth that covered her entire head. It was very awkward to see them driving cars in this attire.
Then there was Ramadan. That made life a while lot harder.
I’m American. Moving to Hong Kong for 3 years was a huge culture shock and a huge middle finger to “American exceptionalism”.
But moving back AFTER the worse of the pandemic??? Holy shit. A massive shock - there was a sort of post-apocalyptic exhausted survivors vibe to everyone and everything.
It was truly culture shocking to see.
thank you for validating what it’s been like since the pandemic
I work with a lot of people from HK. It seems tough over there.
On one hand, we receive a lot of work from HK companies looking to move jobs elsewhere. It's one of the things making the economy a bit less bad than elsewhere presently.
On the other hand, I really wish you all the best and hope things improve.
I've enjoyed it but I got to quarantine and still am able to do so wfh and delivery yay!
Moving from a rural 10,000 population town, to a multi-million population major city.
I'm a NZer living in Australia, some people didn't understand me saying "a wee bit *", like "it's a wee bit annoying".
I'm not very well traveled.
That's odd, we use "a wee bit *" in the USA too, not a terribly common colloquialism but still used. On second thought, maybe not lol. I do read a lot, perhaps I picked up my familiarity with the phrase from books.
What about "a teensie bit"?
Saying that would probably net you a hiding
A what now?
Jokingly suggesting you'd get beaten up
really? You in the city? wee bit' used sometimes in rural areas
When I lived in Italy it always caught me off guard how every business closed up shop after 18:00, the city looked dead past these hours. I'm used to shops and markets being open 24/7, and it was a vast contrast. But I liked it in the long run, people should have their off hours.
Interesting, but if all the shops close when everyone gets off work, when do people get a chance to actually visit the shops when they are free before they close?
You usually get about an hour to do your shopping, plus big supermarkets like Esselunga would still be open, you just had to make the trip. I guess there's always a lunch break, a pizza place next to a place I used to live in only opened from 14:00 to 17:00, and there would always be a long line (because they had very good pizza)
It's especially noticable in cities where the storefronts close with rolling metal doors, and the windows close over with shutters. It is very apparent that the city is "closed."
Of course these doors and shutters have very practical purposes. Just that if they're not common in your home country, it can be jarring.
Visited canada a few days ago.
I thought that the people would be super nice, in my experience they don't. People working in tourism are super friendly but we felt that the people are super harsh with tourists.
We even had a group of kids saying out loud "I don't like people with big backpacks" (And no my backpack was not touching them or on a seat) or a security officer saying that he does not work on the information department so he was not helping us.
I have family there and I got to meet some incredible people but I felt that they were super hash sometimes.
Also Canada is beautiful!
Canada is very big. Come to the east coast! Not that we don't have assholes.
Where in Canada did you visit?
Banff -> Montereal -> Toronto
Actually experiencing racism in Japan.
If you're a white dude in a white country, you don't have any idea what it's like. My incident was super minor (being denied access to a restaurant) but it gave me a teeny peek into what life must be like for some people.
It was the first time that I've experience this kind of comments. I'm a tallish white male and I was confused as Canadian sometimes during this trip
Just got back from Canada and I had the same experience. The workers were really friendly, but everyone else was kind of assholes. Felt like I was back in LA with everyone having their head up their own asses. Shocked me cause I always hear how friendly Canadians are.
And the food is super bland, but the country is gorgeous and the weather was great
Moved to Maine and literally everyone was white.
The size of grocery stores in the US, coming from Hong Kong. Also, the massive lack of good public transit, urban walkability, and just cars cars cars everywhere.
The things you point our are lacking are the reason the grocery stores are so big. When you go to the store it's not just a small thing you do on your way to do something else, because when you're in a car nothing is easy. Parking and walking into the store can take a few minutes, so stopping after work every day gets annoying fast because what could have been a 5 minute stop on fklt inevitably turns into a 15-20 minute stop.
So, you make going to the store a once or twice a week thing, and you buy EVERYTHING you think you'll want or need in that week when you go to handle that the store needs more in stock.
Becoming a civilian again after being in the military was interesting. Simple things felt weird all the time; I kept feeling like I had to show my ID to buy groceries, stuff like that. But probably moving to the East Coast (NoVA) from Colorado in 2002 was the biggest. I was in absolute shock at the price of housing, hours of commuting every day, and most of all, how horrible the people were. Mean, rude people, angry all the time and intentionally threatening on the roads. Being there made me cry a lot in the first year.
Up until recently (quit due to long-covid and being over-worked), I was a caseworker for adults with severe mental illness who lived in residential care facilities (RCFs). The RCFs are not 'old folks homes' but they would generally have some older residents. Average age was about 40-50s. I was a 3rd party and not associated with the various RCFs themselves, but rather an outside agency. I was also a mandated reporter, which put me at odds with the shady operated RCFs.
These RCFs in my region could best best be imagined as a 'retirement community'/ALF, but the people they would house would range from 18 to any age older. There would be people who were housed for mental illness, developmental disability, substance use disorder, and a lot of revolving door DOC (Department of Corrections) folks. Almost like assisted living meets half-way house, and the next step up is a level II locked facility.
Starting out, it was like walking into a whole other world. Walking thru privately (and often poorly..) operated RCFs was like stepping into another country and having culture shock. It's quite a different world when things like being screamed at, barked at, threatened, witnessing manic and psychotic episodes and aggression/fighting/violence erupting spontaneously become routine and feel mundane.
At any given time, I could have on my caseload 50+ year old adults who have the cognitive abilities and personality of children 8 - 14, and a psychopath who did 20+ years for murder. To be honest, the DOC folks were usually my favorite to work with. Their regimented lives and direction from authority figures made them easy to work with, but you've also got to be keen that they're not working you. But they usually had good senses of humor and we'd have fun working together. I was the person on my team given all the clients the other caseworkers were afraid of (my supervisor's words).
Once I was experienced, I remember always being amused by new people (whether my agency or RCF staff, outside nursing/home care, etc.) and witnessing their culture shock. The thing is, it wears off pretty fast. Well, that is if you're one of the type of people who stick around. Those positions have a very high turnover rate. I loved working with the population I did. I hated my eventually exploitative working conditions and collapsing healthcare industry that nearly killed me. I want to continue working in this field, but the healthcare industry in the US is such a nightmare right now....
Recycling accessibility and street art displays. I live in a place where it's either plain boring wall or grafitti(am super ok with that, they look cool), it just caught me by surprise when I saw some colorful walls with surreal art in Western Europe. Also how people are much warmer and relaxed.
I lived in China for a year after college, and that was basically fine since I was already pretty knowledgeable about the country and I went into it expecting to be off balance and that there would be a lot of new things. What was a surprise was the culture shock when I came back to the US. I don't think that the jet lag helped, but I remember feeling really really out of sorts for about a week and just generally in a bit of shock about how different life was here having largely not been exposed to it for a year.
Interesting how it went the other way.
What stood out in particular?
A few things, how empty and clean it was in comparison (I lived in a city at the time, which could show you how dense Beijing is, like everywhere you go is the most crowded place you have ever been). I also remember waking up from jet lag and my brother was watching that puppet comedy guy on tv and thinking what the fuck is going on here. I was pretty unplugged while I was over there (fall of 2004) so I essentially missed that whole election cycle which was honestly really nice, it sucked that Bush got reelected, but it was good to not be steeped in it while it happened. Since I had a very rudimentary grasp of mandarin at the time I wasn't really engaging which Chinese pop culture either so I was basically just hanging out and talking to people which was really nice. Chinese social interactions are a lot more structured as well, which I found very refreshing at the time, I didn't have enough of a grasp of the language to be awkward so that was also really fun.
Paper money. Just... What? Why can you just rip up money?
We used to have that, but we moved to a more plastic feel type money like 6 years ago
I live in America, and I would say America. During COVID I was completely shocked on how stupid we were about masks and vaccine guidelines. I am nearly 40 now but at the time I didn't know this country was so stupid.
Returning to the US from living in Estonia for several years as a teen. Nothing made sense at all to me culturally, and in many ways still doesn’t.
South American bidets.
Not the pathetic little add-on ones you sometimes see in Australia, but stand alone bidets with enough water pressure for the water jet to touch the roof of the bathroom! A shot of high power jet of water to the crotch at 3am when I was only half awake is something I will not forget in a hurry!
Probably moving to a big city from a prondomity Mennonite village I grew up in. I am not a Mennonite myself, not religious either, just grew up in that kind of environment. A tiny unfinished suburb surrounded by miles of corn fields and cows.
Highlights include
having to idea how public transit worked I was riding the bus without paying for the first few months because I didn't realize I needed to.
saw my first homeless people, saw women dressed "imodestly", and tall buildings. These are not things that bothered me but certainly things I should have seen prior to my 20s. I had no clue how to interact with people outside my bubble.
having grown up with many siblings and close friends I was hit with a lot of loneliness. Definetly a low point.
I also had none of the skills needed to survive life on my own in a big city. Schools teach budgeting but they didn't teach me to avoid scammers, where to shop, how to get places, housing, access to health services ect.
I'm still learning about 15 years later. Now it's about assertive communication skills, legal knowledge, cultural histories, how to pay respects to indigionous cultures and why its important to do so, im understanding local politics and how to work with it.
Frankly that's my favorite part of all this. I'm (slowly) learning, and feel like I am growing from being a part of the culture and not in a bubble.
Reverse racism in China and to a less extent Japan. Only really exists for white people. Better pay and more attention just for being white but it get old really quick. I’ve actually found that it’s city people who are more annoying about it. When I got to the countryside I find them more kind. With all the things wrong with America, I am thankful for it not being an ethnostate.
That's just called racism.
And from what I hear it's not exclusive to white people. Friends have told me they're racist against black people too.
Well, many Chinese and Japanese plainly consider all non-Asians (and many Asians) savages. Racism is normalized there. Hierarchical centralized clan-based societies and thus certain lack of agility in social ties and traditions.
I mean, they are not much more racist that Middle-Eastern people. Just the Middle-East is (I know this may sound funny) socially more progressive in many places.
It’s it really reverse racism when the majority is shitting on the racial minority?
Is “reverse racism” ever a thing anywhere anyway? Racism is racism.
Honestly, my alarm bells start going off when people use that phrase.
Correct. Racism is racism. That said, it’s usually meant to call out situations where a minority group shitting on a majority group, which is not what is happening here.
This is humanity’s old classic - the majority shitting on the minority.
Same here, I'm hoping it's just ignorance.
I'd call it reverse racism cuz the majority is actually upholding a minority. In china they literally hire Caucasian people to "look good" (whatever that means)
Just like in Russia nobles would hire French and German servants to look good. Like an expensive horse.
Isn't racism just discriminating against people because of their race? I don't majority/minority makes a difference for the definition.
Fair thinking, but I think "reverse racism" gets you understood better but that might be only me
None because I don’t live in America
Your think culture shock only happens to Americans?
yes